Job Killers hurt the economy

[CHONGS]

man oh man

[felix rex]

I wondered what one you'd pick.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Your nitpicking at my 5 minutes of research, which pointed out how flawed the "study" appears to be, rather than refuting any of it with your own facts and evidence, is quite demonstrative of how bad your ignorant, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and crazy ass got pwn3d in this thread.

Buh-Bye.

i nitpicked to humor you (though i stand by those picks and lol @ your error on strawman).  as i said, i called you Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant and crazy for your statement about what the immigrants would have known about the law.  i should have added racist, but i didn't want to be anyone's cliche but my own.

folks, this is how you message board

sidebar:  are all the retards you know racist?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I do not believe that there were 80,000 workers in Alabama who were 1) all illegal, and 2) too scared to stay in a state because of a law that 3) they probably didn't know existed.  

you are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant or crazy.  possibly all three.

Those 80,000 people represents about 1.5% of the population of Alabama.  They are likely some of the poorest people in the state and "being illegal" probably don't pay income tax .  Yet somehow, their departure constitutes:

The lost jobs also cost Alabama up to $264.5 million in lost state sales and income taxes

which is over 5% of the revenues reported by the AL Dept Rev. for those same taxes.  Hmmmmm

Also there's this:

There are an estimated 11.2 million illegal immigrants in the United States, including between 75,000 and 160,000 in Alabama, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/12/us-alabama-immigration-idUSTRE79B7GO20111012

Amazingly, the student population of hispanics didn't dip by 50-107%!!!  How can that be?

 

Am I the only one who has access to google on this board?  Seriously, do these people even check the work they've done?  It's totally rough ridin' ignorant to just believe everything you read without spending 3 minutes figuring out if its plausible.  To think that there are 80,000 illegal alien migrant worker who left alabama, which would represent not less than 1 out  2 of the total number of illegal aliens (mirgrant worker or otherwise), because of a card check law, is totally ignorant, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and crazy.

Just because your mom teaches econ, doesn't give you carte blanche to be an elitist ignorant prick in the Pit.  It takes effort to earn that right.  Go away.

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

When did America ever not rely on immigrants (or slaves) to work the worst jobs? I don't think that time has ever existed. The government hasn't made people lazy. It's just provided a mechanism for those people not to become hobos or starve to death.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

When did America ever not rely on immigrants (or slaves) to work the worst jobs? I don't think that time has ever existed. The government hasn't made people lazy. It's just provided a mechanism for those people not to become hobos or starve to death.

If people are able to work but won't because they can make more from free government handouts, something is wrong.  Right now, 50% of the population is paying subsidies to the other 50%, and that is increasing every year. At some point in the near future, that will no longer be sustainable.  Why do you hate working and supporting yourself?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

When did America ever not rely on immigrants (or slaves) to work the worst jobs? I don't think that time has ever existed. The government hasn't made people lazy. It's just provided a mechanism for those people not to become hobos or starve to death.

If people are able to work but won't because they can make more from free government handouts, something is wrong.  Right now, 50% of the population is paying subsidies to the other 50%, and that is increasing every year. At some point in the near future, that will no longer be sustainable.  Why do you hate working and supporting yourself?

These aren't the kind of jobs that are going to get people off of government subsidies, anyway. The whole 50% is paying the other 50%'s way argument is a bunch of crap.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

When did America ever not rely on immigrants (or slaves) to work the worst jobs? I don't think that time has ever existed. The government hasn't made people lazy. It's just provided a mechanism for those people not to become hobos or starve to death.

If people are able to work but won't because they can make more from free government handouts, something is wrong.  Right now, 50% of the population is paying subsidies to the other 50%, and that is increasing every year. At some point in the near future, that will no longer be sustainable.  Why do you hate working and supporting yourself?

These aren't the kind of jobs that are going to get people off of government subsidies, anyway. The whole 50% is paying the other 50%'s way argument is a bunch of crap.

So you are saying that those on subsidies now will never be able to work and sustain themselves without being a drag on the economy and other taxpayers. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

You also have to consider that those people are on welfare because they are shitty workers and no farmer in his right mind would ever hire them, let alone be willing to pay them more than the hard working Mexicans they now employ.

Yes, generations of welfare has killed the work ethic of too many Americans. Time to end it.

When did America ever not rely on immigrants (or slaves) to work the worst jobs? I don't think that time has ever existed. The government hasn't made people lazy. It's just provided a mechanism for those people not to become hobos or starve to death.

If people are able to work but won't because they can make more from free government handouts, something is wrong.  Right now, 50% of the population is paying subsidies to the other 50%, and that is increasing every year. At some point in the near future, that will no longer be sustainable.  Why do you hate working and supporting yourself?

These aren't the kind of jobs that are going to get people off of government subsidies, anyway. The whole 50% is paying the other 50%'s way argument is a bunch of crap.

So you are saying that those on subsidies now will never be able to work and sustain themselves without being a drag on the economy and other taxpayers.  

They won't by picking tomatoes at $2 per 25 pound box.

Really, why do you care if they are on subsidies? Those subsidies enable their employers to pay them next to nothing, which increases profit margins that are taxed at a higher rate than any low level employee. Illegal immigrants increase government revenue even more because they don't file tax returns. All of this keeps your taxes low.

[LickNeckey]

I believe the basic premise of "tired poor wretched masses" still rings true.  The backbone of our agricultural and industrial sectors has long been formed on the backs of immigrant labor.  And in every case the new immigrant group was disparaged by their more integrated counterparts. 

The issue of lazy people being lazy i can not help you with.  I have never "not had a job" so i don't know why that is okay for some.  I do believe we should extend benefits to those who are genuinely seeking employment as a safety net and I don't think it is fair to punish children for their parents faults when it is unecessary to do so. 

As ana side though i often struggle with the issue the "religious right" has with caring for the poor. 

"For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me."


But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."

"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
 
"You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I believe the basic premise of "tired poor wretched masses" still rings true.  The backbone of our agricultural and industrial sectors has long been formed on the backs of immigrant labor.  And in every case the new immigrant group was disparaged by their more integrated counterparts. 

The issue of lazy people being lazy i can not help you with.  I have never "not had a job" so i don't know why that is okay for some.  I do believe we should extend benefits to those who are genuinely seeking employment as a safety net and I don't think it is fair to punish children for their parents faults when it is unecessary to do so. 

As ana side though i often struggle with the issue the "religious right" has with caring for the poor. 

"For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me."


But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."

"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
 
"You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The "religious right" does do these things for the poor, through their church or other charity, with their own money. All of the money goes directly to help locals that need help.  It's the "atheist left" that seems to believe an inefficient government should be the ones to decide who to help with how much and with other people's money.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

A lot of wealthy people had no income in Alabama this year because they didn't have any labor to harvest their fields. This isn't that hard. . .

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

A lot of wealthy people had no income in Alabama this year because they didn't have any labor to harvest their fields. This isn't that hard. . .

I wonder what they did before they had illegal Mexican labor?  Did they pay more for legal labor?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

A lot of wealthy people had no income in Alabama this year because they didn't have any labor to harvest their fields. This isn't that hard. . .

LOL @ thinking farmers pay income taxes

JFC, what a rube

[Rage Against the McKee]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

A lot of wealthy people had no income in Alabama this year because they didn't have any labor to harvest their fields. This isn't that hard. . .

I wonder what they did before they had illegal Mexican labor?  Did they pay more for legal labor?

They bought slaves.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The $264.5 million is not just from the income tax of the departed workers. Most of that would come from the lost sales tax of all the produce that died on the vine, and the lost income tax of the land owners.

How many illegal immigrants do you think actually get accepted to college? I would imagine the percentage who find employment is much higher than the percentage who go to college, but I guess I could be wrong.

It must have been tough on the residents of Alabama to have to drive all the way to Mississippi to buy produce

 

If the income and sales tax effect of illegal aliens is this drastic, I can only imagine what the effect of losing people who have larger incomes and who actually buy more things would be.  Alabama would probably lose 568% of its sales and income and sales tax revenue if Northrup Grumman left.   

A lot of wealthy people had no income in Alabama this year because they didn't have any labor to harvest their fields. This isn't that hard. . .

I wonder what they did before they had illegal Mexican labor?  Did they pay more for legal labor?

They bought slaves.

So I guess it's time to redistribute the wealth. You guys should be rejoicing.

[Rage Against the McKee]

It looks like the Brownback administration is taking the approach of attracting illegal immigrants to Kansas to work on farms. Good for them.

http://cjonline.com/news/2012-01-28/agriculture-interests-stir-immigration-policy

[LickNeckey]

John Dougie, how many unemployed Kansans are there.  Maybe you should call them and tell them about the job opportunities available.   

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

John Dougie, how many unemployed Kansans are there.  Maybe you should call them and tell them about the job opportunities available.   

Kansas Agriculture Secretary Dale Rodman gets an earful from farmers and ranchers struggling to fill job vacancies.

It is an economic calling, he said, worthy of thinking outside of the box. The cry of desperation from large dairies and feedlots is that loud.

You must pay them to sit at home, but you can't make them work.

[LickNeckey]

I wonder what they did before they had special exception foreign labor?   


Theeeey tooook oouurr jooooobs.