Southwell/McGruder/Samuels

[catzacker]

Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipcac post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

this.  fine, run off players, but replace them with better ones.  and to the dipsh*ts sarcastically pointing out that it's two years later....maybe if fred brown got replaced with dixon or denmon (i.e. freshman 2-3 years ago) then running a player (in this case fred) is a good thing. 

when you consider that ron anderson (avg. 7/7 for usf) was, essentially, replaced by abdul herrera and freddy asprilla, it only shows how big of a dipsh*t frank really is.

[michigancat]

Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

Frank's in game blunders don't matter because of his roster mismanagement?  That makes no since.  If the damage was done two years ago, why watch?  Fred Brown has been gone for two seasons, I couldn't give a crap, I wish he would focus on getting the most out of this roster.

You can worry about whatever you want.  I'm just saying recruiting is the real problem, not your Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) substitution talking point.

[kso_FAN]

The 2010-2011 Cats: The Failure of "Buy In or Quit".

[michigancat]

The 2010-2011 Cats: The Failure of "Buy In or Quit".

Well, the quit part worked, I guess.

[kcchiefdav]

I agree with everyone in this thread.

There's no need to argue as to what the real problem is, because there are obviously several problems.

The recruiting obviously sucks. Turns out a team full of 3* SGs and SFs (and an often suspended PF) can't do crap on offense. If you think it's bad now, just start running through the possible starting line ups for next year. JamSam, Judge, McG, Irving, Sprads? YIKES

On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so rough ridin' high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy." I'm not here to argue who is the better or worse guy in any scenario. I'm not qualified to do so. But Frank rough ridin' Martin is, it's his rough ridin' job. He should know who is good and who is ass and play the rough ridin' good players. And when i'm talking good/bad here, i'm talking about the ability to get the ball in the basket. This rough ridin' idea that Frank Martin has figured out this amazing defensive philosophy is total crap. He seems to believe that any 5 random people can stop any NBA all-star team from scoring any points in a game as long as the 5 randoms work hard enough and do their jobs. If you're gonna run your very best defender off, then you're making a commitment to offense. Put the best 5 offensive players in the god damn game and leave them in.

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so rough ridin' pissed off right now.

[CNS]

i hope martin runs russell off.  nothing against russell personally, but i don't like his fans

He has fans?

GPC'ers love them some Nick.  It's disgusting.  Nick will be our BB version of CCQ if he isn't run off.

[MakeItRain]

Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

Frank's in game blunders don't matter because of his roster mismanagement?  That makes no since.  If the damage was done two years ago, why watch?  Fred Brown has been gone for two seasons, I couldn't give a crap, I wish he would focus on getting the most out of this roster.

You can worry about whatever you want.  I'm just saying recruiting is the real problem, not your Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) substitution talking point.

I've mentioned the poor construction of this roster several times.  Rusty, it's easier to play your contrarian game with someone who actually disagrees with you.  

Now back to why Frank seemingly is unaware of how to use his personnel.

[sonofdaxjones]

A great way to avoid having guys being "talking points" in future years is to actually go out and recruit better players to take their place.

But Frank's merry band of right fit 3 stars, weak Juco players, mid major transfers, and dysfunctional McD AA's isn't going to do anything to offset the discussion of the loss of a guy capable of hitting 40% of his 3's, and one of the better defenders/physical presences we've had. 

[Dugout DickStone]

I can't believe I used to get mad at Denis.  for anything.

[Gooch]

I can't believe I used to get mad at Denis.  for anything.

OMG this. I am so ashamed of myself too.

[Clevey 2 Times]

I lost a lot of respect for many of you in this thread.

Really, Fred Brown?!?! GMAFB

Some of you are expending mental energy arguing that "it's not that Myles, Peterson, etc. played, it is who they played with"...as if we have some clear cut rotation that equals success? Also many of you are assuming that we some how failed when they were on the floor. When those guys got most of their minutes (the 1st half), we were tied...

I don't know what some of you have been watching.

Relevant talking points in regards to A&M game in order of importance:
1 - Our inability to run any set offense effectively
2 - Where the hell was McGruder offensively?
3 - Jake Pullen proves again that he is incapable of running the point for this team.

Talking points to never be brought up again:
1 - The fact that Frank played 12 guys in the first half
2 - Our defense (which was good by the way)
3 - Where was Martavious?

[kso_FAN]

I lost a lot of respect for many of you in this thread.

Really, Fred Brown?!?! GMAFB

Some of you are expending mental energy arguing that "it's not that Myles, Peterson, etc. played, it is who they played with"...as if we have some clear cut rotation that equals success? Also many of you are assuming that we some how failed when they were on the floor. When those guys got most of their minutes (the 1st half), we were tied...

I don't know what some of you have been watching.

Relevant talking points in regards to A&M game in order of importance:
1 - Our inability to run any set offense effectively
2 - Where the hell was McGruder offensively?
3 - Jake Pullen proves again that he is incapable of running the point for this team.

Talking points to never be brought up again:
1 - The fact that Frank played 12 guys in the first half
2 - Our defense (which was good by the way)
3 - Where was Martavious?

Good points. I'd argue the number one problem was no points from McGruds. Then, I thought the offensive movement was fine, the problem was we could not generate shots for Kelly to score, especially in the 2nd half. Then only 4 points from JamSam.

I'd say the general rule for this team is that we have 4 guys that are legit consistent double digit scoring threats and we've got to have at least 3 play well and score the ball to win consistently and have effective offense. Like most of our losses, only 2 of those guys played well.

[sys]

On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so rough ridin' high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy."

he really doesn't do this.  the players that are clearly better than anyone else at their position (pullen, mcgruder, samuels, kelly when eligible) play 25-35 minutes each.  virtually every game.  if you're one of a platoon of players of equal ability, then you get pulled for mistakes.  if you're good you aren't.

the only semi-exception would be kelly.  which is pretty defensible, imo, because even though kelly is very skilled, and undeniably kstate's best big, there are stretches when he really plays like crap.  and, in the end, kelly usually gets his minutes too.

[kso_FAN]

On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so effing high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy."

he really doesn't do this.  the players that are clearly better than anyone else at their position (pullen, mcgruder, samuels, kelly when eligible) play 25-35 minutes each.  virtually every game.  if you're one of a platoon of players of equal ability, then you get pulled for mistakes.  if you're good you aren't.

the only semi-exception would be kelly.  which is pretty defensible, imo, because even though kelly is very skilled, and undeniably kstate's best big, there are stretches when he really plays like cac.  and, in the end, kelly usually gets his minutes too.

Thank you sys. Pullen, McGruds, Samuels, and Kelly all played at least 17 minus in the 2nd half yesterday. Its pretty clear Frank views Sprads in the next group, but he'll still pull him if he messes up. And its not like any of the others have earned not being Franked.

[sonofdaxjones]

Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.

[Trim]

Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.

DAXPAK - 3.5.11

[swish1]

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.

[Clevey 2 Times]

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.

This is the worst and, to me, a legitimate example of where Frank and Co. need major improvement.

[Trim]

Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.

DAXPAK - 3.5.11

[kso_FAN]

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.

This is the worst and, to me, a legitimate example of where Frank and Co. need major improvement.

I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

[sys]

I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?

[EMAWzified]

Remember Wooly's last year when he ditched the triangle midseason (or was it the season before, so forgettable) in a desperate and unsuccessful attempt to keep his job?
Don't know if it's the new offense or just improvement and a better understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, but the team's turnovers have declined drastically in the last month (TOs drive me into the same frenzy as missed FTs the drives the tucks).

[catzacker]

I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?

amazing how our defense getting/playing better makes this f'ing offense "great".  i suppose it's just happenstance that in during our 2-5 conf start, our opp's had >1.00 PPP in every game (save for our two wins - TT, BU) and since that time we've allowed >1.00PPP twice (@ISU and MU).  the only thing, imo, that this offense makes this team better at is that it doesn't seem to turn it over as much.  

[kso_FAN]

I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?

amazing how our defense getting/playing better makes this f'ing offense "great".  i suppose it's just happenstance that in during our 2-5 conf start, our opp's had >1.00 PPP in every game (save for our two wins - TT, BU) and since that time we've allowed >1.00PPP twice (@ISU and MU).  the only thing, imo, that this offense makes this team better at is that it doesn't seem to turn it over as much. 

But we've also only had <1.00 PPP offensively only twice in that stretch.  And an eFG% of 55% or better 4 times.

While I agree that our defense improving is the biggest improvement and that TO% has helped our offense a bunch, we also our hitting shots at a greater rate more often.