HFBIQ Question: Why does our D suck so bad on 3rd downs?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So our D currently ranks 105th of all FBS schools for third down conversions allowed: 24 for 50 or 48%.

Our D is 13 for 30 (43%) in third and long conversions allowed (5+ yards), and 11 for 20 (55%) in third and short conversions allowed, so it's almost as easy to convert a third and long against us as a third and short.

In the total YPG department, our D is ranked 50th at 353.

So is this just one symptom of an overall crap D, or is there a reason why we specifically suck so hard on third down conversions, and particularly third and long conversions?

Thanks, and I'll listen off the air.

[kso_FAN]

Jake Waters

[Rage Against the McKee]

We line up in a soft coverage with a 10 yard cushion nearly every play. Our coaches seem to be more concerned with not allowing a big play than they are with getting the ball back.

[Panjandrum]

We line up in a soft coverage with a 10 yard cushion nearly every play. Our coaches seem to be more concerned with not allowing a big play than they are with getting the ball back.

Yep.  Let them move the ball in between the 20's and stiffen up in the red zone.

It's been our M.O. for the last few years.

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

BEND DON'T BREAK

[kso_FAN]

While I think the "vanilla" excuse is overused, it is true we haven't shown nearly our entire defensive package. And last week vs UMass was as basic as we can get.

There are concerns though; these are mine:
1) Can our linebackers consistently make plays? The absence of Brown is clear with this group, and some of our younger more athletic guys will likely need to step up and pass our seniors.
2) Does our defensive line have enough depth to compete in the league? The line has probably been slightly better than I anticipated, but when we get into Big 12 play at teams want to get in 70-some snaps will our line hold-up.
3) Dorian Roberts. He has looked very suspect in man defense the last two games. The other 3 defensive backs look solid, but Roberts appears to be a huge weakness.

['taterblast]

i'm very surprised that Carl Miles hasn't gotten more playing time over Roberts

[catzacker]

I think the 3rd down conv rate is just one of many symptoms of a bad/awful defense.  The DL is average, but it is not physical at all (I expected to be worse than it is, however we’ll see when we get to Big 12 play).  The LB are so non-athletic it makes me think Hrebec was cloned (the best LB athletes are sitting on second team – I guess they haven’t “learned the playbook”).  The secondary is ok, however as _Fan points out, Roberts is horrendous.  I think we will show more on defense as the seasons wears on – we actually went to some nice zone blitzes against LaLa. 

Specifically on 3rd down, we have problems with speed – we don’t get to the ball fast enough, whether it’s a screen, draw, option rout over the middle – we play soft then close – however we don’t have the athletes to make up that ground quick enough.  Nor the experience. 

[lopakman]

This defense needs a leader.  Someone like ABjr or Josh Buhl who the rest of the players can rally around.  I just don't see a lot of heart and pride on this defense.  It's not always about talent.  We've had lesser talented players do better. 

[MadCat]

3) Dorian Roberts. He has looked very suspect in man defense the last two games. The other 3 defensive backs look solid, but Roberts appears to be a huge weakness.

This.  Didn't know his name but was constantly cursing number 4.  I'm probably not helping the cause.

[cfbandyman]

3) Dorian Roberts. He has looked very suspect in man defense the last two games. The other 3 defensive backs look solid, but Roberts appears to be a huge weakness.

This.  Didn't know his name but was constantly cursing number 4.  I'm probably not helping the cause.

Yeah, that one drive against uLA where he got picked on 3 straight times to the endzone was very  And you could definitely tell last game that UMass was trying to pick on him some more on several drives. Really need to step up or find a replacement.

[Stevesie60]

This defense needs a leader.  Someone like ABjr or Josh Buhl who the rest of the players can rally around.  I just don't see a lot of heart and pride on this defense.  It's not always about talent.  We've had lesser talented players do better. 

Zimmerman is the leader. He was the leader last year as well.

[GoodForAnother]

3) Dorian Roberts. He has looked very suspect in man defense the last two games. The other 3 defensive backs look solid, but Roberts appears to be a huge weakness.

This.  Didn't know his name but was constantly cursing number 4.  I'm probably not helping the cause.

yeah, been yelling "TURN AROUND #4" all year

[kslim]

same as usual. 3rd down is for the most part a passing down. If you dont get pressure you tend to fail, hence our woes

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

This defense needs a leader.  Someone like ABjr or Josh Buhl who the rest of the players can rally around.  I just don't see a lot of heart and pride on this defense.  It's not always about talent.  We've had lesser talented players do better. 

Zimmerman is the leader. He was the leader last year as well.

he is also the only person who knows how to tackle.

[lopakman]

This defense needs a leader.  Someone like ABjr or Josh Buhl who the rest of the players can rally around.  I just don't see a lot of heart and pride on this defense.  It's not always about talent.  We've had lesser talented players do better. 

Zimmerman is the leader. He was the leader last year as well.

I would say ABjr was the leader last year, and if Zimmerman is the leader this year he needs to do a better job.

[Stevesie60]

This defense needs a leader.  Someone like ABjr or Josh Buhl who the rest of the players can rally around.  I just don't see a lot of heart and pride on this defense.  It's not always about talent.  We've had lesser talented players do better. 

Zimmerman is the leader. He was the leader last year as well.

I would say ABjr was the leader last year, and if Zimmerman is the leader this year he needs to do a better job.

Well I'm telling you what people involved with the team say.

[MixBerryCrunch]

It's easy to tell Zimms is absolutely disgusted with the linebackers and Roberts....Is it just me or did the defense look better late in the game when puds like Slaughter and Walker were out?

[sonofdaxjones]

Because we didn't bother to recruit for $hit at key defensive positions.

[EMAWesome]

Easiest answer is

1) We have a DL that can get zero pressure on their own.

2) We have to bring Moore off the edge + another so the QB doesn't have 30 seconds back in the pocket.

3) This exposes a vulnerable LB crew & secondary to having to cover for too long, which leads to long pass plays.

LB hasn't been the problem this year, the fact that the DL can't keep the LB'ers free to make tackles is a much bigger problem. The venom pointed @ Walker, Slaughter (who gets waaay too much grief for simply not being ABjr IMO) & Truman is misdirected

[Frankenklein]

It's easy to tell Zimms is absolutely disgusted with the linebackers and Roberts....Is it just me or did the defense look better late in the game when puds like Slaughter and Walker were out?

On the radio this morning they played a clip of Snyder saying the best defense was when the 2's came in but you know...DEMENTIA   

[Muldoon]

It's easy to tell Zimms is absolutely disgusted with the linebackers and Roberts....Is it just me or did the defense look better late in the game when puds like Slaughter and Walker were out?

On the radio this morning they played a clip of Snyder saying the best defense was when the 2's came in but you know...DEMENTIA

This is Scheme Doctor at his best.  Kinda like syaing how he was so pissed that he didn't have #life on the field and is gonna work him in more (minimal additional plays, at best).  TX sees how fast our #2 LBs were and he throws out a little nugget to get them to game plan for that.

[timhawk]

We line up in a soft coverage with a 10 yard cushion nearly every play. Our coaches seem to be more concerned with not allowing a big play than they are with getting the ball back.

actually i'm guessing it's the same problem that KU has had in recent years....no lockdown corners. your corners aren't good enough to play press coverage so they have to give a cushion. KU has had this same problem but in our 2 games so far this year we are playing alot more press with our corners and i think our D is ranked like 32nd or something right now, it's our offense that's horrible.

[kim carnes]

Crappy recruiting.