Stand Your Ground Laws

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

This is self defense specifically because of no retreat laws.

That is not accurate at all. The no retreat laws only make it so that by the letter of the law, this is self defense regardless of if we find out later that the guy was just asking for directions or something, and that she could have easily avoided the situation by just getting in her car and driving off.

Wrong. Even with SYG, you still have to have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. SYG simply qualifies the standard self-defense doctrine to explain that if you have such a reasonable fear, you don't have to try to retreat before defending yourself.

And this case, and Nuts' posts, perfectly demonstrate why SYG laws are a good thing. Self defense is already murky enough with the "reasonable fear." At least with SYG, you don't have to worry about some asshat on a jury later whining about "well, I really think if I was in that situation, I would have had time to drive away...." This isn't Europe. In this country, we place a higher value on self-reliance, which includes self-defense.

[Rage Against the McKee]

This is self defense specifically because of no retreat laws.

That is not accurate at all. The no retreat laws only make it so that by the letter of the law, this is self defense regardless of if we find out later that the guy was just asking for directions or something, and that she could have easily avoided the situation by just getting in her car and driving off.

Wrong. Even with SYG, you still have to have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. SYG simply qualifies the standard self-defense doctrine to explain that if you have such a reasonable fear, you don't have to try to retreat before defending yourself.

And this case, and Nuts' posts, perfectly demonstrate why SYG laws are a good thing. Self defense is already murky enough with the "reasonable fear." At least with SYG, you don't have to worry about some asshat on a jury later whining about "well, I really think if I was in that situation, I would have had time to drive away...."

No, they demonstrate why SYG is an awful thing. In a perfect world, this woman would face murder charges and have to state her case in front of a jury of her peers. I wouldn't vote to convict based upon the facts that are out there right now, but if 12 people unanimously believe she is guilty, so be it. If 12 jurors all decide that they easily would have had time to just drive away, then the lady probably did have time and could have easily avoided killing the guy.

There should be a high standard applied to when it is ok to take another person's life.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

This is self defense specifically because of no retreat laws.

That is not accurate at all. The no retreat laws only make it so that by the letter of the law, this is self defense regardless of if we find out later that the guy was just asking for directions or something, and that she could have easily avoided the situation by just getting in her car and driving off.

Wrong. Even with SYG, you still have to have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. SYG simply qualifies the standard self-defense doctrine to explain that if you have such a reasonable fear, you don't have to try to retreat before defending yourself.

And this case, and Nuts' posts, perfectly demonstrate why SYG laws are a good thing. Self defense is already murky enough with the "reasonable fear." At least with SYG, you don't have to worry about some asshat on a jury later whining about "well, I really think if I was in that situation, I would have had time to drive away...."

No, they demonstrate why SYG is an awful thing. In a perfect world, this woman would face murder charges and have to state her case in front of a jury of her peers. I wouldn't vote to convict based upon the facts that are out there right now, but if 12 people unanimously believe she is guilty, so be it. If 12 jurors all decide that they easily would have had time to just drive away, then the lady probably did have time and could have easily avoided killing the guy.

There should be a high standard applied to when it is ok to take another person's life.

Yes, in a perfect world, she should be charged with murder. I mean, if she's found not guilty, then what's the harm, right? It's just a piddly little murder trial. No sweat, am I right?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yes, in a perfect world, she should be charged with murder. I mean, if she's found not guilty, then what's the harm, right? It's just a piddly little murder trial. No sweat, am I right?

Well, she did kill a man. Do you not think there should be any consequence for that at all?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Yes, in a perfect world, she should be charged with murder. I mean, if she's found not guilty, then what's the harm, right? It's just a piddly little murder trial. No sweat, am I right?

Well, she did kill a man. Do you not think there should be any consequence for that at all?

Nice straw man. I think a prosecutor (hopefully not Angela Corey) should look at the evidence and decide whether to bring charges in light of self-defense laws that rightly give the benefit of the doubt to people in dangerous situations. You don't just try everyone for murder who is involved in a shooting.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yes, in a perfect world, she should be charged with murder. I mean, if she's found not guilty, then what's the harm, right? It's just a piddly little murder trial. No sweat, am I right?

Well, she did kill a man. Do you not think there should be any consequence for that at all?

Nice straw man. I think a prosecutor (hopefully not Angela Corey) should look at the evidence and decide whether to bring charges in light of self-defense laws that rightly give the benefit of the doubt to people in dangerous situations. You don't just try everyone for murder who is involved in a shooting.

If there were no SYG law, I think the prosecution would potentially have a reasonable case to move forward with murder charges, and I would hope that they would bring the case to a grand jury. The victim's family deserves as much.