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This should be good: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f=2485&t=11457814
it's killing them
Please don't take this as a direct reflection of you, because it is not meant to be that way. However, I DESPISE the fact that every time there is a thread related to ranking coaches, or comparing coaches and Snyder's name is brought up people consistently try to frame the comparison on a curve to make up for the fact that he is at KSU and that when he took over, they were one of the worst programs historically of all time. At what point does that cease to have any meaning. I respect what he has done in his career and the turnaround that KSU has undergone...but the dude has been at the school 21 freaking years. What KSU did 50 years before he got to KSU has no weight on what he has or has not accomplished at this point in his career. Heck, it stopped being a valid excuse sometime around 1993 or 1994. I am not saying that he is not a good coach at all...because I do think he is a good coach. Just saying that he isn't the GOAT that people make him out to be.In what objective measure is Snyder a better coach than Stoops? It isn't just winning percentage that we are talking about here. It's across the board. Wins, recruiting, conference titles, national titles, rankings, and head to head. I really can't find an objective statistic that says Snyder is a better coach. Recruiting:Who controls the recruiting? Is it the coach or is it the school name? Neither Oklahoma nor Kansas are overflowing with talent, so both coaches have to go outside of their state consistently to fill their classes. Being a blue-blood doesn't guarantee successful recruiting either...how else can you explain the recruiting fall off that OU had in the 90's, ND had in the late 90's to mid-00's, UT had prior to Mack Brown, Bama's recruiting from about 2000 to 2006 looked a lot like Okie State's does currently. Blue blood status doesn't mean squat if the coach can't recruit.Baylor and Oklahoma State have consistently out recruited KSU the last 4-5 years. Is that because they are blue-blood programs? No. It is because they have coaches that can recruit. At some point people have to stop saying that KSU has trouble recruiting due to location/history/etc. and start to realize that they have trouble recruiting because the staff just doesn't recruit high caliber talent. It has been 21 years already...it isn't the school or the history and Manhattan/KSU is no worse than Stillwater or Waco...yet somehow those two programs recruit just fine. Advantage: StoopsWinsAs mentioned, Snyder is at a .667 winning percentage for his career. That is a solid percentage, not knocking it at all. Stoops is at .801. That a difference of about 1.5 wins per year. Snyder has 21 more wins than Stoops but he has also coached 7 more seasons. Stoops also has one more conference win and 42 fewer conference losses...in 7 fewer season. Just to appease some of the "that's not a fair comparison because KSU was so bad when he got there crowd" if you ignore the first 4 years of his tenure (18-26)...his winning percentage jumps to .720. That is still less than Stoops percentage. If you ignore Snyder's first four years (I don't think you should...no one from that fanbase seems to want to ignore the early Mangino years or Weis' first year), Snyder has had 5 seasons where he had less than 8 wins. Stoops has had 1. Basically Snyder goes under 8 wins 29.4% of the time (ignoring the first 4 years, 42.8% if you count them), Stoops is under 8 wins 7.1% of the time. Advantage: StoopsHead to headStoops is 7-2 against Snyder (maybe 8-2 can't remember exactly). I could be off but I believe that Snyder's only two wins against OU under Stoops have been in 2003 and in 2012. Even if I am missing one in there somewhere, Stoops is still winning head to head against Snyder at a surprisingly dominant rate.Advantage: StoopsConference ChampionshipsStoops has 9 (64.3% of his seasons)Snyder has 2 (9.5% if you count all his seasons, 11.8% if you ignore the first 4)Advantage: StoopsNational ChampionshipsStoops 1, Snyder 0. Advantage: StoopsRankingsStoops has finished the season ranked in the top 15 in 11 of his 14 seasons (78.5%). Snyder has finished the season ranked in the top 15 in 8 of his 21 seasons (38.1% or 47.1% if you ignore the first 4 years). Even if you stretch it out to top 25 there is still a difference. Stoops is 12/14 (85.7%). Snyder is 12/21 (57.1%) or 12/17 (70.6%).Advantage: StoopsA really good comparison is Stoops first 4 years at OU vs. Snyder's first four years at KSU directly after Prince. KSU was 17-20 in the 3 years prior to Snyder's return. OU was 12-22 in the three years prior to Stoops taking over the program. That is about as close to an apples to apples comparison as is possible. Both programs were down, but not quite in the cellar. Both programs had previous successes within the last decade. Neither had rosters that were stacked with talent. Snyder from 2009-201234-17 (.667) overall record22-12 (.647) conference record0-3 in bowl games1 conf. championshipStoops from 1999-200243-9 (.827) overall record25-7 (.781) conference record3-1 in bowl games2 conf. championships1 NCIf there is something out there that shows that Snyder is better, pull it out. I have to say though that if you can find something concrete out there that isn't "well KSU sucked before he got there" you will be the first person to do so. This isn't the first time that I have pointed out that Snyder gets a lot of credit for bringing KSU out of the cellar...and that it tends to give him carte blanche when people compare him to other coaches and his resume doesn't stack up. I've seen people at various times over the last 5+ years say that Snyder is a better coach than Bowden, Holtz, Switzer, Osborne, and Schembechler. Every time resume's are compared, the only retort that I have consistently seen, regardless of the coach that Snyder is compared to is "well KSU sucked before he got there." I don't have a personal issue with Snyder. I think he is a good coach. I just don't think he is as good as people make him out to be. It frustrates the heck out of me, because any KU fan older than 30 has seen Snyder in a league with 4 other coaches that have won a total of 7 NC's...and conference teams have played for another 7. Snyder has NEVER played for an NC. The one year they were close, they dropped a heart breaker in the CCG and then fell apart in their bowl game. It's like the "decade of dominance"...how are you going to have a decade of dominance when you 1) never won an NC and 2) didn't win the bulk of the conference titles, and 3) had conference opponents win 4 NC's? How can anyone claim Snyder is the best coach in the league when compared heads up with another coach in the same league who has a higher winning percentage, more conference wins in 7 fewer years, dominates the guy heads up, has 7 more conference championships, a national title, and 4 NC game appearances?
Luke's stock is rising as Winters continues to validate his greatness. Add Luke and Winters to my list! Also, EMAWBLAST! and Tobias!
Quote from: Emo EMAW on April 10, 2013, 05:46:27 PMAll Michael Smith did was take Joe Gordon's place as the super enthusiastic sideline guy.Gordon wasn't a coach. Both were here at the same time. One coached on the sideline while the other waved a towel because he wasn't a coach.
All Michael Smith did was take Joe Gordon's place as the super enthusiastic sideline guy.
Don't we need someone to wave the towel?
Quote from: bones129 on April 13, 2013, 12:46:35 AMDon't we need someone to wave the towel?2012 cats says no
