Author Topic: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:  (Read 1497 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« on: April 11, 2013, 10:27:16 PM »
NOAA on the drought:

The central Great Plains drought during May-August of 2012 resulted mostly from natural variations in weather.

• Moist Gulf of Mexico air failed to stream northward in late spring as cyclone and frontal activity were shunted unusually northward.
• Summertime thunderstorms were infrequent and when they did occur produced little rainfall.
Neither ocean states nor human-induced climate change, factors that can provide long-lead predictability, appeared to play significant roles in causing severe rainfall deficits over the major corn producing regions of central Great Plains.


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Offline sys

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 10:54:13 PM »
that's great news, dax.
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Offline bones129

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 11:12:40 PM »
NOAA on the drought:

The central Great Plains drought during May-August of 2012 resulted mostly from natural variations in weather.

• Moist Gulf of Mexico air failed to stream northward in late spring as cyclone and frontal activity were shunted unusually northward.
• Summertime thunderstorms were infrequent and when they did occur produced little rainfall.
Neither ocean states nor human-induced climate change, factors that can provide long-lead predictability, appeared to play significant roles in causing severe rainfall deficits over the major corn producing regions of central Great Plains.

That's what I suspected. I feel validated on this one.

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 11:15:48 PM »
obama made drought illegal, so that should clear this right up

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 12:04:27 AM »
el Nino is comin' boys!

Offline ednksu

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 12:20:04 AM »
Finally, the question of climate change forcing was not comprehensively studied in this report. The analysis based on a single coupled model needs to be repeated using a suite of CMIP models. In this regard, it is useful to include here the conclusions of other assessment reports, using multiple models and other information than available in this 2012 study, on overall U.S. drought change during the last century and also on projections for the future. These appear in several recent National and International assessment reports. Among the climate issues addressed in 21 Synthesis and Assessment Products (SAPs), the U.S. Climate Change Science Program inquired into current understanding of the causes for high-impact drought events over North America. The 2008 SAP 1.3 report concluded that SST anomalies have been important in forcing some multiyear severe droughts over the U.S. during the last half-century, whereas short-term droughts (“flash droughts” having monthly-seasonal time scales) were judged to be mostly due to atmospheric variability, in some cases amplified by local soil moisture conditions. The report assessed that it is unlikely that a systematic change has occurred in either the frequency or area-coverage of drought over the contiguous US from the mid-20th century to the present. It is likely, according to that report, that anthropogenic warming has increased drought impacts over North America through increased water stresses associated with warming, though the magnitude of the effect was judged to be uncertain.


so flash droughts != systematic droughts
also flash droughts are potentially made worse by climate change.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 07:20:26 AM »
Finally, the question of climate change forcing was not comprehensively studied in this report. The analysis based on a single coupled model needs to be repeated using a suite of CMIP models. In this regard, it is useful to include here the conclusions of other assessment reports, using multiple models and other information than available in this 2012 study, on overall U.S. drought change during the last century and also on projections for the future. These appear in several recent National and International assessment reports. Among the climate issues addressed in 21 Synthesis and Assessment Products (SAPs), the U.S. Climate Change Science Program inquired into current understanding of the causes for high-impact drought events over North America. The 2008 SAP 1.3 report concluded that SST anomalies have been important in forcing some multiyear severe droughts over the U.S. during the last half-century, whereas short-term droughts (“flash droughts” having monthly-seasonal time scales) were judged to be mostly due to atmospheric variability, in some cases amplified by local soil moisture conditions. The report assessed that it is unlikely that a systematic change has occurred in either the frequency or area-coverage of drought over the contiguous US from the mid-20th century to the present. It is likely, according to that report, that anthropogenic warming has increased drought impacts over North America through increased water stresses associated with warming, though the magnitude of the effect was judged to be uncertain.


so flash droughts != systematic droughts
also flash droughts are potentially made worse by climate change.

The climate is always changing.  As some scientists have noted, we face far more urgent issues related to climate and the environment than AGW is posing and will likely ever pose.   But AGW is where the money is at, and literally every climatic and weather event in this day and age is sadly laid at the feet of AGW by a vast bloc of "scientists" and observers.   Who by and large are allowed to continually flip flop in their positions, yet are also allowed to say in the next breath that AGW is the primary driver of climate change be it warming or cooling . . . and everything in between.

2 years ago:  AGW is driving more tornadoes and more servere tornadoes!!  8 months ago:  AGW is starving storms and causing a decrease in tornadic activity!!  Past Few Days:  AGW is causing more tornadoes!!  (Top guys at Severe Storm Forecast Center (paraphrasing):  We can find no correlation between tornadic activity and climate change.   Other studies indicate based on historicial data that tornadic activity is no more severe or intense today, than it was 100 years ago.). 

$2 million dollar NSF study:  Our climate models say that the Arctic will get greener which is bad.  Caused by warming (and what we really mean is AGW). 

Already paid for studies on the Arctic:  We can say without a doubt that the Arctic has had periods of being very green over the course of earth's history. 

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 08:51:04 AM »
Finally, the question of climate change forcing was not comprehensively studied in this report. The analysis based on a single coupled model needs to be repeated using a suite of CMIP models. In this regard, it is useful to include here the conclusions of other assessment reports, using multiple models and other information than available in this 2012 study, on overall U.S. drought change during the last century and also on projections for the future. These appear in several recent National and International assessment reports. Among the climate issues addressed in 21 Synthesis and Assessment Products (SAPs), the U.S. Climate Change Science Program inquired into current understanding of the causes for high-impact drought events over North America. The 2008 SAP 1.3 report concluded that SST anomalies have been important in forcing some multiyear severe droughts over the U.S. during the last half-century, whereas short-term droughts (“flash droughts” having monthly-seasonal time scales) were judged to be mostly due to atmospheric variability, in some cases amplified by local soil moisture conditions. The report assessed that it is unlikely that a systematic change has occurred in either the frequency or area-coverage of drought over the contiguous US from the mid-20th century to the present. It is likely, according to that report, that anthropogenic warming has increased drought impacts over North America through increased water stresses associated with warming, though the magnitude of the effect was judged to be uncertain.


so flash droughts != systematic droughts
also flash droughts are potentially made worse by climate change.

The climate is always changing.  As some scientists have noted, we face far more urgent issues related to climate and the environment than AGW is posing and will likely ever pose.   But AGW is where the money is at, and literally every climatic and weather event in this day and age is sadly laid at the feet of AGW by a vast bloc of "scientists" and observers.   Who by and large are allowed to continually flip flop in their positions, yet are also allowed to say in the next breath that AGW is the primary driver of climate change be it warming or cooling . . . and everything in between.

2 years ago:  AGW is driving more tornadoes and more servere tornadoes!!  8 months ago:  AGW is starving storms and causing a decrease in tornadic activity!!  Past Few Days:  AGW is causing more tornadoes!!  (Top guys at Severe Storm Forecast Center (paraphrasing):  We can find no correlation between tornadic activity and climate change.   Other studies indicate based on historicial data that tornadic activity is no more severe or intense today, than it was 100 years ago.). 

$2 million dollar NSF study:  Our climate models say that the Arctic will get greener which is bad.  Caused by warming (and what we really mean is AGW). 

Already paid for studies on the Arctic:  We can say without a doubt that the Arctic has had periods of being very green over the course of earth's history.

Antarctica also didn't used to be at the south pole.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 09:29:17 AM »
Finally, the question of climate change forcing was not comprehensively studied in this report. The analysis based on a single coupled model needs to be repeated using a suite of CMIP models. In this regard, it is useful to include here the conclusions of other assessment reports, using multiple models and other information than available in this 2012 study, on overall U.S. drought change during the last century and also on projections for the future. These appear in several recent National and International assessment reports. Among the climate issues addressed in 21 Synthesis and Assessment Products (SAPs), the U.S. Climate Change Science Program inquired into current understanding of the causes for high-impact drought events over North America. The 2008 SAP 1.3 report concluded that SST anomalies have been important in forcing some multiyear severe droughts over the U.S. during the last half-century, whereas short-term droughts (“flash droughts” having monthly-seasonal time scales) were judged to be mostly due to atmospheric variability, in some cases amplified by local soil moisture conditions. The report assessed that it is unlikely that a systematic change has occurred in either the frequency or area-coverage of drought over the contiguous US from the mid-20th century to the present. It is likely, according to that report, that anthropogenic warming has increased drought impacts over North America through increased water stresses associated with warming, though the magnitude of the effect was judged to be uncertain.


so flash droughts != systematic droughts
also flash droughts are potentially made worse by climate change.

The climate is always changing.  As some scientists have noted, we face far more urgent issues related to climate and the environment than AGW is posing and will likely ever pose.   But AGW is where the money is at, and literally every climatic and weather event in this day and age is sadly laid at the feet of AGW by a vast bloc of "scientists" and observers.   Who by and large are allowed to continually flip flop in their positions, yet are also allowed to say in the next breath that AGW is the primary driver of climate change be it warming or cooling . . . and everything in between.

2 years ago:  AGW is driving more tornadoes and more servere tornadoes!!  8 months ago:  AGW is starving storms and causing a decrease in tornadic activity!!  Past Few Days:  AGW is causing more tornadoes!!  (Top guys at Severe Storm Forecast Center (paraphrasing):  We can find no correlation between tornadic activity and climate change.   Other studies indicate based on historicial data that tornadic activity is no more severe or intense today, than it was 100 years ago.). 

$2 million dollar NSF study:  Our climate models say that the Arctic will get greener which is bad.  Caused by warming (and what we really mean is AGW). 

Already paid for studies on the Arctic:  We can say without a doubt that the Arctic has had periods of being very green over the course of earth's history.

Antarctica also didn't used to be at the south pole.

ACD, Anthropogenic Continental Drift

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 09:56:32 AM »
No matter the cause/effect or whatever, we could use some frickin el Nino.  I pretty much gave up bird hunting in KS/OK/TX last year, and should have the year before.  Felt bad about the few birds we did kill.  Those little buggers could use some rain.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 04:30:37 PM »
No matter the cause/effect or whatever, we could use some frickin el Nino.  I pretty much gave up bird hunting in KS/OK/TX last year, and should have the year before.  Felt bad about the few birds we did kill.  Those little buggers could use some rain.

All signs say yes. There has been a seal pup die off this year that historically signals an el Nino is brewing.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Gonna have to rummage around for more talking points:
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 04:47:59 PM »
No matter the cause/effect or whatever, we could use some frickin el Nino.  I pretty much gave up bird hunting in KS/OK/TX last year, and should have the year before.  Felt bad about the few birds we did kill.  Those little buggers could use some rain.

All signs say yes. There has been a seal pup die off this year that historically signals an el Nino is brewing.

You sure? 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/lanina/enso_evolution-status-fcsts-web.pdf

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ENSO-neutral conditions continue.*
• Equatorial sea surface temperatures (SST) are near average across the Pacific
Ocean.
• Over the last couple months, the atmospheric circulation has been variable
partially due to an active Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO).
• ENSO-neutral is favored into the Northern Hemisphere summer 2013.*