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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: Sugar Dick on July 21, 2010, 10:48:58 PM
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I've raised this question before and other than some really dumb comments it's been avoided, so I decided it was worthy of its own topic:
If illegal aliens are given some form of amnesty allowing them to work in the U.S., what will be the Union reaction when they start taking Union jobs?
I ask this question for several reasons: 1) The idea that illegal aliens will continue working sh*tty jobs after they're "documented" is unrealistic and naive. 2) Now legal aliens will naturally seek higher paying jobs, but will work at a rate less than those currently working the jobs the aliens seek. 3) Union workers are not highly skilled, despite what they think, and it would be a matter of months before illegal aliens acquire the skills necessary to fill those same jobs. 4) Any US corporation can easily shed any collective bargaining agreement by forming a new corporation.
I haven't heard this topic covered anywhere in the media, right or left, but think it's a legitimate question. Thoughts?
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
I didn't realize there were so many jobs available that the Unions could just absorb all the illegals and put them straight to work. :surprised:
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free market, "sugar dick"
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free market, "sugar dick"
amnesty to illegals isn't the free market, "no dick"
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
I didn't realize there were so many jobs available that the Unions could just absorb all the illegals and put them straight to work. :surprised:
seiu is pretty much a catch-all union. If you're not a steelworker, auto worker, etc, you go there. New unions could also be created, such as, say, the lettuce pickers union.
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free market, "sugar dick"
amnesty to illegals isn't the free market, "no dick"
A free market would let anyone live where they wanted, regardless of borders.
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It's not like the companies are going to hire so many immigrants at once that they could just replace their entire workforce. Why would the immigrants not just join the union when they get hired?
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free market, "sugar dick"
amnesty to illegals isn't the free market, "no dick"
sure it is, "dirty sanchez"
why do you hate a free society?
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DS is pretty much spitting on soldiers graves here.
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There's a difference between a free market and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
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There's a difference between a There's a difference between a free market and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
Letting people live where they want to isn't anarchistic. Why do you hate freedom?
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There's a difference between a There's a difference between a free market and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
Letting people live where they want to isn't anarchistic. Why do you hate freedom?
Actually, it is. Nations are made of governments with laws and distinct borders. A lack of which is by definition anarchy.
You seriously dumb down every thread you're in.
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whatever commie. I'm not showing you my papers
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whatever commie. I'm not showing you my papers
Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over and they ask you for your drivers license (assuming it weren't suspended).
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There's a difference between a There's a difference between a free market and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
and an anarchistic market, but like all statists, you'd rather play games with words than look at the truth.
Letting people live where they want to isn't anarchistic. Why do you hate freedom?
Actually, it is. Nations are made of governments with laws and distinct borders. A lack of which is by definition anarchy.
Who said anything about eliminating all governments, laws, and borders, other than you? :dunno:
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whatever commie. I'm not showing you my papers
Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over and they ask you for your drivers license (assuming it weren't suspended).
Huh?
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
I didn't realize there were so many jobs available that the Unions could just absorb all the illegals and put them straight to work. :surprised:
seiu is pretty much a catch-all union. If you're not a steelworker, auto worker, etc, you go there. New unions could also be created, such as, say, the lettuce pickers union.
My point was, there aren't enough union jobs to absorb all these people. No union is going to voluntarily take on millions of new workers with nowhere to work. You can't pay dues if you aren't working. Furthermore, no former illegal alien is going to quit working for the sake of the union. There are only so many jobs, and currently way more union workers than jobs available. There are enough illegal aliens to put a shitload of union workers out of work for a long time. Illegals will work the same job for half as much money, because its still a tremendous improvement in quality of life.
When the rubber hits the road, hypothetically, what is going to happen?
This isn't a hard concept fellas, the same thing happened after the slaves were freed (although unions weren't around then) and we got race riots in the North.
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
I didn't realize there were so many jobs available that the Unions could just absorb all the illegals and put them straight to work. :surprised:
seiu is pretty much a catch-all union. If you're not a steelworker, auto worker, etc, you go there. New unions could also be created, such as, say, the lettuce pickers union.
My point was, there aren't enough union jobs to absorb all these people. No union is going to voluntarily take on millions of new workers with nowhere to work. You can't pay dues if you aren't working. Furthermore, no former illegal alien is going to quit working for the sake of the union. There are only so many jobs, and currently way more union workers than jobs available. There are enough illegal aliens to put a shitload of union workers out of work for a long time. Illegals will work the same job for half as much money, because its still a tremendous improvement in quality of life.
When the rubber hits the road, hypothetically, what is going to happen?
This isn't a hard concept fellas, the same thing happened after the slaves were freed (although unions weren't around then) and we got race riots in the North.
Who says they can't create their own unions. cesar chavez anyone?
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whatever commie. I'm not showing you my papers
Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over and they ask you for your drivers license (assuming it weren't suspended).
Huh?
When you get pulled over, the cop asks you for your drivers license, and on some cases registration and insurance. Those are your papers. Citizens are required to have them to drive. But we couldn't ask that to potential illegals. That might be rrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist.
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More union members. Ramp up the intimidation and thuggery already exhibited by some unions. Use "disposable" members (aka former illegals) to do the dirty work. Its easy to get under-educated and often illiterate to do the work of the union bosses. More members means more votes to elect pro-union, anti-business politicians. Economy in turmoil. Ramp up thuggery further. Overthrow from within. Strongman who plays on those weak-minded fools takes control.
I didn't realize there were so many jobs available that the Unions could just absorb all the illegals and put them straight to work. :surprised:
seiu is pretty much a catch-all union. If you're not a steelworker, auto worker, etc, you go there. New unions could also be created, such as, say, the lettuce pickers union.
My point was, there aren't enough union jobs to absorb all these people. No union is going to voluntarily take on millions of new workers with nowhere to work. You can't pay dues if you aren't working. Furthermore, no former illegal alien is going to quit working for the sake of the union. There are only so many jobs, and currently way more union workers than jobs available. There are enough illegal aliens to put a shitload of union workers out of work for a long time. Illegals will work the same job for half as much money, because its still a tremendous improvement in quality of life.
When the rubber hits the road, hypothetically, what is going to happen?
This isn't a hard concept fellas, the same thing happened after the slaves were freed (although unions weren't around then) and we got race riots in the North.
Who says they can't create their own unions. cesar chavez anyone?
Okay, add that to the hypo (since we can't get passed that). What happens when the UAW meets the UIAAW and they compete for the same jobs?
Either way, it's fundamentally the same question.
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
Amnesty would definitely have a negative impact on the deficit. Those illegal workers that have fake social security numbers are currently paying into SS and paying income tax per paycheck, but only a small percentage actually file a return, where most will get a full refund on their income tax withheld.
If amnesty were to happen, more will pay into SS, but they will all file tax returns, where almost all will get full refunds, plus Earned Income credit per child of up to $1000. I know the government numbers claim there is about 12 million illegals, but that seems low considering the border patrol catches about a million per year and only 2% are prosecuted. And what happens when the health care entitlement begins?
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
Amnesty would definitely have a negative impact on the deficit. Those illegal workers that have fake social security numbers are currently paying into SS and paying income tax per paycheck, but only a small percentage actually file a return, where most will get a full refund on their income tax withheld.
If amnesty were to happen, more will pay into SS, but they will all file tax returns, where almost all will get full refunds, plus Earned Income credit per child of up to $1000. I know the government numbers claim there is about 12 million illegals, but that seems low considering the border patrol catches about a million per year and only 2% are prosecuted. And what happens when the health care entitlement begins?
They will also make more money, increasing not only the amount of taxes that they pay, but the demand for higher priced goods.
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
Amnesty would definitely have a negative impact on the deficit. Those illegal workers that have fake social security numbers are currently paying into SS and paying income tax per paycheck, but only a small percentage actually file a return, where most will get a full refund on their income tax withheld.
If amnesty were to happen, more will pay into SS, but they will all file tax returns, where almost all will get full refunds, plus Earned Income credit per child of up to $1000. I know the government numbers claim there is about 12 million illegals, but that seems low considering the border patrol catches about a million per year and only 2% are prosecuted. And what happens when the health care entitlement begins?
They will also make more money, increasing not only the amount of taxes that they pay, but the demand for higher priced goods.
99% of them will not be among the 53% of working Americans that pay income tax.
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
Amnesty would definitely have a negative impact on the deficit. Those illegal workers that have fake social security numbers are currently paying into SS and paying income tax per paycheck, but only a small percentage actually file a return, where most will get a full refund on their income tax withheld.
If amnesty were to happen, more will pay into SS, but they will all file tax returns, where almost all will get full refunds, plus Earned Income credit per child of up to $1000. I know the government numbers claim there is about 12 million illegals, but that seems low considering the border patrol catches about a million per year and only 2% are prosecuted. And what happens when the health care entitlement begins?
They will also make more money, increasing not only the amount of taxes that they pay, but the demand for higher priced goods.
99% of them will not be among the 53% of working Americans that pay income tax.
They will still have money deducted from their paychecks. Would you like to give me a 1 year interest-free loan? If so, please PM.
Making a living wage would allow all of these immigrants to stop living 10 to a house, helping the real estate market. Landlords pay taxes. They will also be able to purchase more goods. People who trick out rides also pay taxes. (That's my racist stereotype for the day).
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There are plenty of non-immigrants who would be willing to work in the auto industry for less than the unionized workers are making. Just look at the non-unionized automakers like Toyota. I don't see how giving amnesty to illegal immigrants is going to break the unions. I don't agree with amnesty on principle, but I really don't think it would have negative impacts on the economy. The people who need to worry about losing their jobs in this situation are the non-unionized workers.
Amnesty would definitely have a negative impact on the deficit. Those illegal workers that have fake social security numbers are currently paying into SS and paying income tax per paycheck, but only a small percentage actually file a return, where most will get a full refund on their income tax withheld.
If amnesty were to happen, more will pay into SS, but they will all file tax returns, where almost all will get full refunds, plus Earned Income credit per child of up to $1000. I know the government numbers claim there is about 12 million illegals, but that seems low considering the border patrol catches about a million per year and only 2% are prosecuted. And what happens when the health care entitlement begins?
They will also make more money, increasing not only the amount of taxes that they pay, but the demand for higher priced goods.
99% of them will not be among the 53% of working Americans that pay income tax.
They will still have money deducted from their paychecks. Would you like to give me a 1 year interest-free loan? If so, please PM.
Making a living wage would allow all of these immigrants to stop living 10 to a house, helping the real estate market. Landlords pay taxes. They will also be able to purchase more goods. People who trick out rides also pay taxes. (That's my racist stereotype for the day).
Myth in many many cases. Not only is this a standard lifestyle for many in mexico, but often its done also to save money to pay for other family members to come through chain migration (another practice that must be stopped). More money increases the rate of migration. Amnesty will only encourage more of the human trafficking and cartel butchery associated with it.