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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Shooter Jones on February 17, 2021, 11:14:57 AM

Title: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 17, 2021, 11:14:57 AM
Tell me how you feel about the future under Klieman? We're going into his 3rd season.

I just had a conversation about how going into year 3 w/ Ron, it felt like everyone knew he was going to fail. Just a lot of negativity. He started 12-9, then lost 4 in a row to miss a bowl by a game in year 2, but it felt bad. The second half of year 3 was a crap show and ended him. Also, Klieman got embarrassed the last half of this season, and they have been open about how there are/were lockerroom issues, etc., but it seems people are way more positive on him.

Obviously Kli is a much more likable personality, so that helps. Is it all around Skylar? (thinking it's a different 2020 season if he stays healthy? etc...)

But anyway, what is your outlook for the future under Coach Klieman? What kind of improvement do you need to see this year?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 17, 2021, 11:37:29 AM
Fair to fiddlin
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: KITNfury on February 17, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
Disappointing end this last season, but yea I think it would have been better if Thompson would have been healthy. I'm not leaning one way or the other with Klieman.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 'taterblast on February 17, 2021, 01:21:03 PM
development and on field coaching is good enough to get us to 6-6 in most normal years.

but the recruiting misses have me pretty certain at this point we won't be in the 9 to 11 regular season win range any time in the next five years.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: nicname on February 17, 2021, 01:37:46 PM
I think we Skylar 3:16 our way to 9+ wins in 2021.

Bold prediction: Klieman will have us in the Dr. P by the time Rubley graduates.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 17, 2021, 01:53:39 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 8manpick on February 17, 2021, 02:03:07 PM
It would be good to land some of them though!
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Institutional Control on February 17, 2021, 02:08:11 PM
Dr Pepper or bust!  :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 17, 2021, 06:47:33 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Spracne on February 17, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

First of all, cats suck. I'm sorry, but they suck. If you disagree, well, then you're probably a cat cuck.

Secondly, maybe the young man just wanted to blaze his own path as opposed to doing what was expected. Maybe he doesn't like his uncle and/or cousins. RESPECT HIS DECISION.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 17, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

First of all, cats suck. I'm sorry, but they suck. If you disagree, well, then you're probably a cat cuck.

Secondly, maybe the young man just wanted to blaze his own path as opposed to doing what was expected. Maybe he doesn't like his uncle and/or cousins. RESPECT HIS DECISION.

This is the hypothermia talking
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 17, 2021, 09:11:47 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

How can we be mad about losing him if we don't know anything about why he isn't coming here?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 17, 2021, 09:19:01 PM
but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

How can we be mad about losing him if we don't know anything about why he isn't coming here?

I don't have a kso subscription anymore so I don't know much about this kid or the basis of their freak out but why aren't we just taking this dude at his word?

https://n.rivals.com/news/hawkeyes-land-de-caden-crawford
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Cire on February 17, 2021, 10:12:37 PM
Iowa is a better school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 17, 2021, 10:36:13 PM
Iowa is a better school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They had more alumni in the Super Bowl than any other school, I believe they had the first or second most in the playoffs, like 8 dudes. They have better recruits, more money, a bigger stadium, essentially better everything. They are probably the second best program in the Big 10. They're much more Texas than K-State.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 08:49:37 AM


but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

How can we be mad about losing him if we don't know anything about why he isn't coming here?

I don't have a kso subscription anymore so I don't know much about this kid or the basis of their freak out but why aren't we just taking this dude at his word?

https://n.rivals.com/news/hawkeyes-land-de-caden-crawford

The consensus is that someone needs to be fired for this
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 08:50:05 AM
Also second best program in the big 10? Let's not get too carried away here
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 18, 2021, 09:23:44 AM
development and on field coaching is good enough to get us to 6-6 in most normal years.

but the recruiting misses have me pretty certain at this point we won't be in the 9 to 11 regular season win range any time in the next five years.

I'm with you here. One of my biggest concerns w/ bringing in Klieman was his ability to put together a solid staff that is both solid in the X's and O's and bringing in the Jimmy's and Joe's.

As much as it's discussed that Klieman is respected nationally, I feel like his staff is way below average and has their recruiting trended up from Bill's? Asking that question says a lot, because I don't think that staff even tried.

Whether he can't improve his staff because people don't want to work under him, or he simply chooses not to make any changes, may be his downfall. Still too early jump to either conclusion, though.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2021, 09:29:34 AM
Also second best program in the big 10? Let's not get too carried away here

Yeah, that claim was out there.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 09:49:18 AM
also I'm giving a covid pass for recruiting. I know everyone is dealing with it but CK's recruiting was looking pretty good when covid hit.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 09:50:59 AM


but the recruiting misses

It's not basketball, there isn't a program in the country who lands all of their targets, not even Alabama.

I generally agree with this but losing on Crawford is unbelievably bad.  All the indicators were a slam dunk for KSU.  Dudes uncle is the teams doctor and his cousins play on the football and basketball team.   Not sure what happened but this staff mumped up something in his recruitment bad.

How can we be mad about losing him if we don't know anything about why he isn't coming here?

I don't have a kso subscription anymore so I don't know much about this kid or the basis of their freak out but why aren't we just taking this dude at his word?

https://n.rivals.com/news/hawkeyes-land-de-caden-crawford

The consensus is that someone needs to be fired for this

That's stupid

Also second best program in the big 10? Let's not get too carried away here

Yeah, that claim was out there.

Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 18, 2021, 09:56:45 AM
No question Iowa is rolling right now on the recruiting trail. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 10:14:41 AM
People are pissed about Crawford because Iowa has been slapping us on the recruiting trail for the last few years, and then they come into KS, offer a kid that has multiple connections to our team, that we've been prioritizing very heavily for a long time, and he commits to Iowa without even taking a visit to Iowa City.  If we were ever going to get a recruit to choose us over Iowa*, Crawford (who is really good btw) fit that mold to a T. 

If CK/K-State is going to take that "next step," winning guys like Crawford seems imperative. 

All that said, the staff has done a decent job recovering after misses in the past (particularly with OL), and December is still a long ways off, so plenty of time to find a good DE.

And Iowa isn't the Big Ten's second best program right now gmab.  I would put Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin all above them. 

*I will say Rubley had an offer from Iowa
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
FWIW, I like CK and think he can be very successful here, but it's going to be hard to get to the next level unless K-State steps it up a notch on the recruiting trail.  Matt Campbell has excelled while getting mid-50s type classes, but that route is awful hard/rare.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 18, 2021, 10:35:26 AM
Crawford situation is weird, I think he snowed a lot of people on his lean to KSU. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 18, 2021, 10:37:26 AM
Northwestern has won Iowa's division twice since the last time Iowa won it.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 10:55:18 AM
People are pissed about Crawford because Iowa has been slapping us on the recruiting trail for the last few years, and then they come into KS, offer a kid that has multiple connections to our team, that we've been prioritizing very heavily for a long time, and he commits to Iowa without even taking a visit to Iowa City.  If we were ever going to get a recruit to choose us over Iowa*, Crawford (who is really good btw) fit that mold to a T. 

If CK/K-State is going to take that "next step," winning guys like Crawford seems imperative. 

All that said, the staff has done a decent job recovering after misses in the past (particularly with OL), and December is still a long ways off, so plenty of time to find a good DE.

And Iowa isn't the Big Ten's second best program right now gmab.  I would put Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin all above them. 

*I will say Rubley had an offer from Iowa

Brents was kind of a win over Iowa
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 10:56:36 AM
People are pissed about Crawford because Iowa has been slapping us on the recruiting trail for the last few years, and then they come into KS, offer a kid that has multiple connections to our team, that we've been prioritizing very heavily for a long time, and he commits to Iowa without even taking a visit to Iowa City.  If we were ever going to get a recruit to choose us over Iowa*, Crawford (who is really good btw) fit that mold to a T. 

If CK/K-State is going to take that "next step," winning guys like Crawford seems imperative. 

All that said, the staff has done a decent job recovering after misses in the past (particularly with OL), and December is still a long ways off, so plenty of time to find a good DE.

And Iowa isn't the Big Ten's second best program right now gmab.  I would put Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin all above them. 

*I will say Rubley had an offer from Iowa

Brents was kind of a win over Iowa
True, but a little different than "recruits" per se. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 18, 2021, 11:03:12 AM
FWIW, I like CK and think he can be very successful here, but it's going to be hard to get to the next level unless K-State steps it up a notch on the recruiting trail.  Matt Campbell has excelled while getting mid-50s type classes, but that route is awful hard/rare.

I think you can be successful with recruiting classes around 50-60, as long as you are getting playmakers at the skilled positions that are most likely higher end recruits.

I'd say Breece Hall alone is worth multiple wins for ISU the last few years. Purdy has been solid as well.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
FWIW, I like CK and think he can be very successful here, but it's going to be hard to get to the next level unless K-State steps it up a notch on the recruiting trail.  Matt Campbell has excelled while getting mid-50s type classes, but that route is awful hard/rare.

I think you can be successful with recruiting classes around 50-60, as long as you are getting playmakers at the skilled positions that are most likely higher end recruits.

I'd say Breece Hall alone is worth multiple wins for ISU the last few years. Purdy has been solid as well.
Like I said, not impossible, but pretty rare.  If you're consistently playing with a sizable talent gap (on paper), it's hard to consistently win.  I don't think it's controversial to say that it's easier to win if you elevate recruiting.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 18, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
I know, and you're absolutely right.

I just don't see K-State being a top tier program in the B12 with this staff as is. Obviously that could change, but my long term expectations have dropped a bit over the last year.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
I can see them being peers (on-field results wise) with everyone but OU and Texas. But obviously would like to see recruiting improvement, especially when on-campus recruiting returns
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: farming_cat fan on February 18, 2021, 01:20:53 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 18, 2021, 01:48:44 PM
Farming cat fan!
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 01:52:19 PM
Man
I
Love
Farming
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DaBigTrain on February 18, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
 :fatty:
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: pissclams on February 18, 2021, 02:27:10 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

farming_cat fan drops an elbow from the top turnbuckle to make it sprinkle's forehead
what an amazing first post from f_cf  :love:
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 18, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
Northwestern dominated that division last season and any division bragging rights run through hilarious Ryan Field now.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: PurpleOil on February 18, 2021, 04:11:48 PM
The idea that Iowa is the 2nd best program in the big 10 is literally a laugh out loud type of statement.

To the question at hand, it's really hard to judge off of last year because we had so many injuries and guys out. If Skylar had stayed healthy, we certainly would have beaten Baylor and OSU. You'll be hard pressed to convince me otherwise with the crazy number of turnovers our backup QB had. We also would have won at least 2 OOC games had covid not done its thing. So, those two events right there take us to a 9 win season and a bowl appearance. Suddenly, things are looking pretty good for the cats.

We'll know a lot about the direction of the program after this season. If we finish with 7-8 wins, then we'll know that something will have to change if we're going to be able to grab another gear, so to speak. If we get 9 or 10 total wins, then I think you step back and let Klieman do his thing. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 04:18:46 PM
I'd be thrilled if we won 8 games next year fwiw.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 04:19:57 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

You know what farmer, you're right. Iowa is certainly trending up, but Wisconsin undoubtedly has the edge right now. DLew can GTFOOMF with Michigan and Penn State, of course they historically better but both are undoubtedly in shambles right now and no one would be surprised if they both had new coaches this time next year. Has Michigan ever even won their division?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2021, 04:47:35 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

You know what farmer, you're right. Iowa is certainly trending up, but Wisconsin undoubtedly has the edge right now. DLew can GTFOOMF with Michigan and Penn State, of course they historically better but both are undoubtedly in shambles right now and no one would be surprised if they both had new coaches this time next year. Has Michigan ever even won their division?

I mean James Franklin has two more 11-win seasons in 7 than Ferentz has in 22. But even then, I think Iowa will almost always be a level below Penn State and Michigan in the eyes of recruits regardless of coach.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 05:11:58 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

You know what farmer, you're right. Iowa is certainly trending up, but Wisconsin undoubtedly has the edge right now. DLew can GTFOOMF with Michigan and Penn State, of course they historically better but both are undoubtedly in shambles right now and no one would be surprised if they both had new coaches this time next year. Has Michigan ever even won their division?

I mean James Franklin has two more 11-win seasons in 7 than Ferentz has in 22. But even then, I think Iowa will almost always be a level below Penn State and Michigan in the eyes of recruits regardless of coach.

Iowa had a higher ranked class than Penn State this year, but I'm not going to front, Iowa isn't recruiting as well as I thought they did. For some reason I thought they have had top 15 classes lately, I was wrong.

Nevertheless, the fact that they are recruiting in the mid 30's to mid 20's and producing all of the NFL talent that they are is incredibly impressive and I'm sure the recruits are impressed by it too. I'm shocked they actually signed any black dudes at all in this latest class, but the kids are buying what they are selling.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 18, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

You know what farmer, you're right. Iowa is certainly trending up, but Wisconsin undoubtedly has the edge right now. DLew can GTFOOMF with Michigan and Penn State, of course they historically better but both are undoubtedly in shambles right now and no one would be surprised if they both had new coaches this time next year. Has Michigan ever even won their division?
I wouldn't be surprised if Iowa had a new coach this time next year either fwiw -- then again, Ferentz isn't as old as I originally thought, so who knows.  Also, didn't Iowa have a pretty scandalous racial reckoning last summer?  I don't remember the details at all but it seemed like not that long ago Ferentz/Iowa was in hot water PR-wise.

I also think "in shambles" is a little overboard regarding Michigan, and a lot overboard regarding Penn State.  It's very possible I missed something, but other than having a disappointing covid season, what's going on at Penn State that would put them in shambles?

And I'm not saying Iowa is garbage or anything -- far from it.  They're a really good program. But I still think they're in that third tier of Big 10 programs (even today), below Ohio State, who is alone, and then probably Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 05:24:08 PM
The larger point is the belief that we are constantly getting our asses kicked in recruiting is stupid, especially given we just landed the second highest profile high school recruit in high school history.

Unless there is anyone who can point to something specifically this kid has said that our staff screwed up, melting down about some three star tweener, guy has like four different positions listed, from Lansing who we actually offered and recruited , is really stupid. I get the meltdowns when we were losing kids we were barely recruiting, I did it for years. Hopefully Breece Hall is the last in state kid we can lose our crap over not landing because the staff didn't try hard enough. Those people at KSO, and frankly some here, need to understand that just because the staff really wants a kid, and we really love K-State, doesn't mean that they are going to end up here. I spent mu whole life convinced that I was going to OU, a girl is the reason I ended up at K-State and it turned out to be the second best thing that ever happened to me. If that girl wanted to go to Pitt St., I was going to Pitt St.

Acting like this or any staff are failures because they unsuccessfully tried to get a 17 year old kid to go somewhere is really clownish.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 05:51:44 PM
Not historically, but right now. If they aren't then who is? It sure in the hell isn't Michigan or Michigan State. Iowa has definitely passed Wisconsin and Penn State, again currently not historically. I know it's hard to fathom but there isn't another program that is recruiting as good as they are, producing more NFL talent, and winning as much as they have been the last decade or so. If y'all have data that proves me wrong, then do so, otherwise you're just saying "Iowa? Nah, can't be Iowa," without a damn thing to back that up.

Wisconsin has won the West Division (formerly Leaders Division :lol:) 6 times in the last decade. Most recently in 2019. Iowa hasn't won that same division since 2016 and that was the only time in the last decade. Also, Wisconsin is 7-3 against Iowa in the last 10 meetings.

You know what farmer, you're right. Iowa is certainly trending up, but Wisconsin undoubtedly has the edge right now. DLew can GTFOOMF with Michigan and Penn State, of course they historically better but both are undoubtedly in shambles right now and no one would be surprised if they both had new coaches this time next year. Has Michigan ever even won their division?
I wouldn't be surprised if Iowa had a new coach this time next year either fwiw -- then again, Ferentz isn't as old as I originally thought, so who knows.  Also, didn't Iowa have a pretty scandalous racial reckoning last summer?  I don't remember the details at all but it seemed like not that long ago Ferentz/Iowa was in hot water PR-wise.

I also think "in shambles" is a little overboard regarding Michigan, and a lot overboard regarding Penn State.  It's very possible I missed something, but other than having a disappointing covid season, what's going on at Penn State that would put them in shambles?

And I'm not saying Iowa is garbage or anything -- far from it.  They're a really good program. But I still think they're in that third tier of Big 10 programs (even today), below Ohio State, who is alone, and then probably Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State.

Yeah Ferentz had and still has the racism cloud over the program, there is still a pending lawsuit. He always had the support of his AD and most of the fan base, and it seemingly has not effected their recruiting, at all. If Ferentz retires it will be because he comes down with some previously unknown health ailment.

Michigan is definitely in shambles. No one there likes their coach, there's all kind of mess with the athletic director. They've never won the division. I know that Ohio State has had a stranglehold on the division but Michigan State has won it or tied for it 5 times. They seem to be stuck in okay mode and have been there since the mid 90's. I won't check, but I'm willing to bet they have around the same amount of wins as Nebraska since they shared the national championship.

Penn State is only in shambles because they are lunatics and perhaps slightly racist. They are always talking about that dude's job. How do you know if you should be looking over your shoulder? If your boss has to tell your fans that she has your back.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2021/01/26/Penn-State-athletic-director-Sandy-Barbour-firmly-backs-James-Franklin/stories/202101260165

For the record I can't stand Iowa, but I do think they have a tendency to be underrated, and as a fan of a school that is perpetually underrated I am a bit sensitive about that.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Cire on February 18, 2021, 10:06:44 PM
8 wins would be incredible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 18, 2021, 10:44:00 PM
The larger point is the belief that we are constantly getting our asses kicked in recruiting is stupid, especially given we just landed the second highest profile high school recruit in high school history.

Unless there is anyone who can point to something specifically this kid has said that our staff screwed up, melting down about some three star tweener, guy has like four different positions listed, from Lansing who we actually offered and recruited , is really stupid. I get the meltdowns when we were losing kids we were barely recruiting, I did it for years. Hopefully Breece Hall is the last in state kid we can lose our crap over not landing because the staff didn't try hard enough. Those people at KSO, and frankly some here, need to understand that just because the staff really wants a kid, and we really love K-State, doesn't mean that they are going to end up here. I spent mu whole life convinced that I was going to OU, a girl is the reason I ended up at K-State and it turned out to be the second best thing that ever happened to me. If that girl wanted to go to Pitt St., I was going to Pitt St.

Acting like this or any staff are failures because they unsuccessfully tried to get a 17 year old kid to go somewhere is really clownish.

They are doing a phenomenal job finding lightly recruited talent that goes under the radar and getting fantastic production out of them early. 

(Vaughn, Portier, Duke are already proven. Warner, Mozee , Aniduke have been mentioned as likely to impress this year) also Devrin Weathers appears to be a really solid pickup for 2021


Outside of Rubley they have gotten their ballsacks tazed off for virtually all their top targets.

2020 Turner Corcoran, Hayden Pauls, Ky Thomas, Daniel Jackson , Sayvion Williams, Ersery, Alex Conn, Jacob Gamble , Yahya Black , Lanell Carr, Korie Black

2021  Devin Neal, Jaylin Noel, Brody Brecht, Thomas Fidone, Beau Stephens, Tyler Maro, Arden Walker , Seth Malcom , Myles Purchase, Matthew Langlois, Beau Freyler



Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: bucket on February 18, 2021, 10:48:05 PM
The larger point is the belief that we are constantly getting our asses kicked in recruiting is stupid, especially given we just landed the second highest profile high school recruit in high school history.

Unless there is anyone who can point to something specifically this kid has said that our staff screwed up, melting down about some three star tweener, guy has like four different positions listed, from Lansing who we actually offered and recruited , is really stupid. I get the meltdowns when we were losing kids we were barely recruiting, I did it for years. Hopefully Breece Hall is the last in state kid we can lose our crap over not landing because the staff didn't try hard enough. Those people at KSO, and frankly some here, need to understand that just because the staff really wants a kid, and we really love K-State, doesn't mean that they are going to end up here. I spent mu whole life convinced that I was going to OU, a girl is the reason I ended up at K-State and it turned out to be the second best thing that ever happened to me. If that girl wanted to go to Pitt St., I was going to Pitt St.

Acting like this or any staff are failures because they unsuccessfully tried to get a 17 year old kid to go somewhere is really clownish.

They are doing a phenomenal job finding lightly recruited talent that goes under the radar and getting fantastic production out of them early. 

(Vaughn, Portier, Duke are already proven. Warner, Mozee , Aniduke have been mentioned as likely to impress this year) also Devrin Weathers appears to be a really solid pickup for 2021


Outside of Rubley they have gotten their ballsacks tazed off for virtually all their top targets.

2020 Turner Corcoran, Hayden Pauls, Ky Thomas, Daniel Jackson , Sayvion Williams, Ersery, Alex Conn, Jacob Gamble , Yahya Black , Lanell Carr, Korie Black

2021  Devin Neal, Jaylin Noel, Brody Brecht, Thomas Fidone, Beau Stephens, Tyler Maro, Arden Walker , Seth Malcom , Myles Purchase, Matthew Langlois, Beau Freyler

Personally, I've felt he's going to have to establish himself for a few years before the in-state guys become expected commits. He had an excellent first year, but it'd still be difficult for me to get excited about a guy from North Dakota after a year.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 18, 2021, 11:08:03 PM
The larger point is the belief that we are constantly getting our asses kicked in recruiting is stupid, especially given we just landed the second highest profile high school recruit in high school history.

Unless there is anyone who can point to something specifically this kid has said that our staff screwed up, melting down about some three star tweener, guy has like four different positions listed, from Lansing who we actually offered and recruited , is really stupid. I get the meltdowns when we were losing kids we were barely recruiting, I did it for years. Hopefully Breece Hall is the last in state kid we can lose our crap over not landing because the staff didn't try hard enough. Those people at KSO, and frankly some here, need to understand that just because the staff really wants a kid, and we really love K-State, doesn't mean that they are going to end up here. I spent mu whole life convinced that I was going to OU, a girl is the reason I ended up at K-State and it turned out to be the second best thing that ever happened to me. If that girl wanted to go to Pitt St., I was going to Pitt St.

Acting like this or any staff are failures because they unsuccessfully tried to get a 17 year old kid to go somewhere is really clownish.

They are doing a phenomenal job finding lightly recruited talent that goes under the radar and getting fantastic production out of them early. 

(Vaughn, Portier, Duke are already proven. Warner, Mozee , Aniduke have been mentioned as likely to impress this year) also Devrin Weathers appears to be a really solid pickup for 2021


Outside of Rubley they have gotten their ballsacks tazed off for virtually all their top targets.

2020 Turner Corcoran, Hayden Pauls, Ky Thomas, Daniel Jackson , Sayvion Williams, Ersery, Alex Conn, Jacob Gamble , Yahya Black , Lanell Carr, Korie Black

2021  Devin Neal, Jaylin Noel, Brody Brecht, Thomas Fidone, Beau Stephens, Tyler Maro, Arden Walker , Seth Malcom , Myles Purchase, Matthew Langlois, Beau Freyler

I honestly don't know but is missing out on let's say 10 of your initial top 20 targets yearly unusual for most schools outside of the top 15 or 20 classes?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: KITNfury on February 19, 2021, 07:26:27 AM
Known dumbass, MIR, tells a different story not so long ago. Now Iowa is #2 in the big 10.

I'm not gonna make too many excuses for our recruiting but Iowa carries more cache than kstate dudes.

No it doesn't. If it does, it shouldn't. How many coaches in this country are scared of being out recruited by Iowa? lol, Iowa.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 19, 2021, 08:02:46 AM
Iowa was Big 10 co-champs 17 years ago, so that carries a lot of weight in 2021 recruiting cycles.








Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2021, 08:24:36 AM
They are absolutely whipping ass on the recruiting trail. Them are facts.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 09:25:05 AM
The larger point is the belief that we are constantly getting our asses kicked in recruiting is stupid, especially given we just landed the second highest profile high school recruit in high school history.

Unless there is anyone who can point to something specifically this kid has said that our staff screwed up, melting down about some three star tweener, guy has like four different positions listed, from Lansing who we actually offered and recruited , is really stupid. I get the meltdowns when we were losing kids we were barely recruiting, I did it for years. Hopefully Breece Hall is the last in state kid we can lose our crap over not landing because the staff didn't try hard enough. Those people at KSO, and frankly some here, need to understand that just because the staff really wants a kid, and we really love K-State, doesn't mean that they are going to end up here. I spent mu whole life convinced that I was going to OU, a girl is the reason I ended up at K-State and it turned out to be the second best thing that ever happened to me. If that girl wanted to go to Pitt St., I was going to Pitt St.

Acting like this or any staff are failures because they unsuccessfully tried to get a 17 year old kid to go somewhere is really clownish.
I don't think they're failures.  I just don't think they're very good recruiters.  I don't think they're doing a good enough job recruiting if we want to be in the consistent 7-10 win range.  When you're losing the vast majority of head-to-heads against other regional power-5 programs (i.e. Iowa State, Colorado, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma State) it's going to be awfully hard -- though not impossible. 

Maybe if they keep developing their assess off and keep proving their coaching chops, their pitches will carry more cache, but eventually it becomes a chicken or the egg thing.

FWIW, I was looking at this the other day, but in Prince's final recruiting class, he pulled in 4 four star recruits.  How many years will CK be K-State's coach before he gets his fourth 4 star?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2021, 09:33:10 AM
Who were the 4 star recruits in his last class?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 09:42:52 AM
Who were the 4 star recruits in his last class?
Daniel Thomas
Daniel Calvin
Ulla Pomele
Aubrey Quarles

He also had 3 4 stars the year before:

Lamark
Gary Chandler
Smoke Patterson

2 before that
Freemaw
James Johnson

Multiple 4 stars in every class.  Obviously they had varying degrees of success, but still, almost all of them (Quarles and Pomele notwithstanding) were relatively high-profile regional recruits. 

Prince's classes (including the 4 stars) were very juco heavy, and included plenty of misses, so not all rainbows and sunshine.  But the point remains that elite regional talent has been willing to come to K-State outside of DOD years. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2021, 09:58:26 AM
4 Star Juco players from that Era are not equal to HS 4 star players of today IMO.  I’m not even sure they give 4 stars to juco players anymore.  Not to say Prince couldn’t recruit I just think it’s apples to oranges.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 19, 2021, 10:02:41 AM
CK and prince have lots of similarities
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:08:43 AM
CK and prince have lots of similarities
lol. Nah. One lost a Senior QB due to a season ending injury during a pandemic, with pandemic issues affecting the roster on game day and the other underachieved with an overrated QB, losing to KU, MU, and Nebraska every year of his tenure. Stay mad tho.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 10:09:41 AM
4 Star Juco players from that Era are not equal to HS 4 star players of today IMO.  I’m not even sure they give 4 stars to juco players anymore.  Not to say Prince couldn’t recruit I just think it’s apples to oranges.
They do give out 4 stars to juco kids.  And I agree that in most situations, all else being equal, give me the 4 star high school kid.  But OTOH, i'd take four star Jordan Mako in a heartbeat, nahmsayin'?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 19, 2021, 10:11:56 AM
This last season is an easy mulligan for me. I still like our coach and think he's doing a solid job. If Klieman misses a bowl game this year I am probably going to want him fired, though.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 10:16:46 AM
This last season is an easy mulligan for me. I still like our coach and think he's doing a solid job. If Klieman misses a bowl game this year I am probably going to want him fired, though.
Me too re. last season.  Really tough break (so to speak) with Skylar.  I expect us to be pretty good this year, but us failing (/refusing?) to do more to supplement the WR/LB positions via transfer (or Juco the last two years) are eye-brow raising to me.  Particularly with LBs, if they go out there and stink up the joint, that's on nobody but CK, imo.  We've had plenty of time to avoid this slowly moving oncoming train that makes Cody Fletcher our best linebacker.

But if they go out there and play fine, then good on CK.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2021, 10:18:00 AM
4 Star Juco players from that Era are not equal to HS 4 star players of today IMO.  I’m not even sure they give 4 stars to juco players anymore.  Not to say Prince couldn’t recruit I just think it’s apples to oranges.
They do give out 4 stars to juco kids.  And I agree that in most situations, all else being equal, give me the 4 star high school kid.  But OTOH, i'd take four star Jordan Mako in a heartbeat, nahmsayin'?

I’ll be damned, forgot about that kid.   Yea that would have been a really nice pickup.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 10:18:58 AM
4 Star Juco players from that Era are not equal to HS 4 star players of today IMO.  I’m not even sure they give 4 stars to juco players anymore.  Not to say Prince couldn’t recruit I just think it’s apples to oranges.
They do give out 4 stars to juco kids.  And I agree that in most situations, all else being equal, give me the 4 star high school kid.  But OTOH, i'd take four star Jordan Mako in a heartbeat, nahmsayin'?

I’ll be damned, forgot about that kid.   Yea that would have been a really nice pickup.
I would've been JUICED about that.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Institutional Control on February 19, 2021, 10:22:13 AM
I was unaware that Josh Freeman was overrated. 
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:23:22 AM
I was unaware that Josh Freeman was overrated.
Well, now you're aware.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 10:25:17 AM
Is this some weird "17th pick in the draft as a junior shouldn't have been a 4 star recruit" thing?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:27:28 AM
Is this some weird "17th pick in the draft as a junior shouldn't have been a 4 star recruit" thing?
That and also the losing record, etc. thing. I'm pretty woke when it comes to Freeman on here. Too busy smoking heaters and passing out on frat pool tables the night before games.  :bang:
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
Anyways, Sky is wearing number 7 this year. Shits about to get real!
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 19, 2021, 10:36:55 AM
First 23 games: Kli vs. Prince

Prince: 12-11
23rd game: 31-73 LOSS
Ended year 2 on 4 game losing streak (outscored 112-198, average 22pt loss pg)
Bowl record: 0-1

Kli: 12-11
23rd game: 31-69 LOSS
Ended year 2 on 5 game losing streak (outscored 90-203, average 23pt loss pg)
Bowl record: 0-1
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:41:22 AM
Now do the pandemic and losing your senior QB to injury numbers and not having an off season to work with your new Freshman QB. It's a weak take, but it's some team #BID'rs love to make, when pouting about last season.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 19, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
Now do the pandemic and losing your senior QB to injury numbers and not having an off season to work with your new Freshman QB. It's a weak take, but it's some team #BID'rs love to make, when pouting about last season.

Wait, what? I'm just pointing out results that are crazy similar.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 19, 2021, 10:46:17 AM
I'm just really glad we didn't give Ron an extension when he had a 10-7 record and had just beat #7 Texas.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 10:50:24 AM
4 OOC games (should have) helped, but when you get blown out by Fresno State, hard to tell, really.

I wonder what Prince's record would have been if Freeman went down in the 2007 San Jose State game.

Prince was a horrible coach, and I'm not stumping for him at all.  My only point was that it's possible for K-State to attract better talent even when we're not whipping total ass on the field like we were in the 90s and early 00s.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 10:53:08 AM
I'm just really glad we didn't give Ron an extension when he had a 10-7 record and had just beat #7 Texas.
P5 schools weren’t reaching out to him, trying to get him to jump ship. Remember when Ron beat Texas and then turned around the next week and lost at KU? Lol
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 19, 2021, 10:54:52 AM
I was just reading on the hilarious Prince buyout and completely forgot we extended him going into year 3.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 19, 2021, 11:08:37 AM
Yeah, Prince's buyout was written on a napkin or something.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 11:10:51 AM
And supported by Bob Kraus's life insurance policy or something
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: wetwillie on February 19, 2021, 11:31:31 AM
Man those were wild times
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Shooter Jones on February 19, 2021, 11:34:16 AM
I'm just really glad we didn't give Ron an extension when he had a 10-7 record and had just beat #7 Texas.
P5 schools weren’t reaching out to him, trying to get him to jump ship. Remember when Ron beat Texas and then turned around the next week and lost at KU? Lol

That's good to hear P5 schools were reaching out to Klieman. Do you know which ones?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: Trim on February 19, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
CK and prince have lots of similarities

But the Jets never has to give up on D'Brickashaw.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 19, 2021, 12:22:59 PM
I'm just really glad we didn't give Ron an extension when he had a 10-7 record and had just beat #7 Texas.
P5 schools weren’t reaching out to him, trying to get him to jump ship. Remember when Ron beat Texas and then turned around the next week and lost at KU? Lol

That's good to hear P5 schools were reaching out to Klieman. Do you know which ones?
Michigan State was a big one. Rumblings that Iowa was making plans for the next coach as well. I think we had a list somewhere on this board after his first season, of all the schools who envied us by not taking the leap to try him out after his first year.
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 19, 2021, 01:44:39 PM
Who were the 4 star recruits in his last class?
Daniel Thomas
Daniel Calvin
Ulla Pomele
Aubrey Quarles

He also had 3 4 stars the year before:

Lamark
Gary Chandler
Smoke Patterson

2 before that
Freemaw
James Johnson

Multiple 4 stars in every class.  Obviously they had varying degrees of success, but still, almost all of them (Quarles and Pomele notwithstanding) were relatively high-profile regional recruits. 

Prince's classes (including the 4 stars) were very juco heavy, and included plenty of misses, so not all rainbows and sunshine.  But the point remains that elite regional talent has been willing to come to K-State outside of DOD years.

Isn't this an argument for the importance of evaluation and development over just grabbing all of the stars you can grab?
Title: Re: What's your K-State FB outlook?
Post by: DQ12 on February 19, 2021, 11:01:34 PM
Who were the 4 star recruits in his last class?
Daniel Thomas
Daniel Calvin
Ulla Pomele
Aubrey Quarles

He also had 3 4 stars the year before:

Lamark
Gary Chandler
Smoke Patterson

2 before that
Freemaw
James Johnson

Multiple 4 stars in every class.  Obviously they had varying degrees of success, but still, almost all of them (Quarles and Pomele notwithstanding) were relatively high-profile regional recruits. 

Prince's classes (including the 4 stars) were very juco heavy, and included plenty of misses, so not all rainbows and sunshine.  But the point remains that elite regional talent has been willing to come to K-State outside of DOD years.

Isn't this an argument for the importance of evaluation and development over just grabbing all of the stars you can grab?
I mean both would be good.  But it’s not as if we aren’t trying to get higher rated guys.  It’s just, for the most part, the higher rates guys weve been after are mushing us for Nebraska, Iowa, OSU, Mizzou etc.

and fwiw I don’t think our recruiting has been abysmal.  I just expected it to be better and think it can be better.