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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: steve dave on June 27, 2020, 05:13:25 PM

Title: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 27, 2020, 05:13:25 PM
Since there is now a coordinated movement by our athletes should probably post something here. Note that this will be the only post on the football (or any other sports) board for politics and solely for discussing this. If you want to be dicks go to the pit to do so. If you want to be racist pieces of crap go to any other KSU message board.

Happy the kids are taking a stand and fully support them crushing our sports programs if the school can't figure its crap out in a way that the kids agree is sufficient.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbjIuYeXgAAMJcp?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 27, 2020, 05:16:13 PM
Since there is now a coordinated movement by our athletes should probably post something here. Note that this will be the only post on the football (or any other sports) board for politics. Happy the kids are taking a stand and fully support them crushing our sports programs if the school can't figure its crap out in a way that the kids agree is sufficient.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbjIuYeXgAAMJcp?format=jpg&name=medium)
K-State Sports is doing this the right way.  This will be an interesting next few months for the administration. So far I'm not impressed after the wimpy but expected statement that was released by Richard Myers this morning. This school needs to enact a policy of some sort that punishes hate speech and racism because frankly this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 27, 2020, 05:17:11 PM
Pretty great to see the balance of power shifting a bit to the players.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 27, 2020, 05:18:11 PM
Pretty great to see the balance of power shifting a bit to the players.
Yes it is. You are on the national stage, use your platform. It is so heart-warming to know the staff is behind them 100%


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 27, 2020, 05:36:00 PM
Related

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 27, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
K-State has a very real opportunity to show, at a national level, that they aren't a bunch of hicks. They are almost guaranteed to eff that up, so the kids forcing their hand is absolutely needed.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 27, 2020, 06:04:34 PM
Related

Love these kids, good for them. The Bama BLM video was great too and honestly is the kind of thing that drives change.

?s=19
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 27, 2020, 06:07:55 PM
Aren't they already not allowed to play or practice?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 27, 2020, 06:14:27 PM
Aren't they already not allowed to play or practice?

well now they are double not going to
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 27, 2020, 06:16:45 PM
Aren't they already not allowed to play or practice?

well now they are double not going to

It’s genius.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 27, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
College athletes are like the only students we hold to high standards so it’s nice to see them returning the favor.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kim carnes on June 27, 2020, 07:12:53 PM
I would like to go on record as being fully onboard with this
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 27, 2020, 07:14:02 PM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: cfbandyman on June 27, 2020, 07:25:12 PM
It's crazy (but cool) that we're on the bleeding edge of this.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 27, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
https://t.me/s/jadenpmcneil?before=2279

Hey guys check this out. Telegram is an app he uses to coordinate doxxes on students and supporters of BLM.

THANKS AND GO CATS.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: NDB on June 27, 2020, 07:47:55 PM
Since there is now a coordinated movement by our athletes should probably post something here. Note that this will be the only post on the football (or any other sports) board for politics. Happy the kids are taking a stand and fully support them crushing our sports programs if the school can't figure its crap out in a way that the kids agree is sufficient.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbjIuYeXgAAMJcp?format=jpg&name=medium)


What the athletes want is punishing a person for constitutionally protected speech.

This isn't going to end well.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: brandochav on June 27, 2020, 07:58:08 PM
Since there is now a coordinated movement by our athletes should probably post something here. Note that this will be the only post on the football (or any other sports) board for politics. Happy the kids are taking a stand and fully support them crushing our sports programs if the school can't figure its crap out in a way that the kids agree is sufficient.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbjIuYeXgAAMJcp?format=jpg&name=medium)


What the athletes want is punishing a person for constitutionally protected speech.

This isn't going to end well.
You have a right to say nearly whatever you want and not be legally punished by a governmental body. However, it does not permit non-criminal repercussions from a private institution, or in this case, specific policy by a public institution. For instance, you can be removed and banned from a public library for vulgar or even loud discussion. That said, I dont think the university is likely to enact such a policy without major legal challenges, and it very well may lose that battle. If it went that far, they could claim social media creates a hostile environment due to sharing and spreading of that message. Ultimately, I think the outcry by the student body will be too much for this lad to bear....I doubt he will continue to attend K-State when classes resume in person.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: NDB on June 27, 2020, 08:06:10 PM
Uh, what?

The first amendment prevents the government from dictating what folks can say outside a few exceptions - eg threats to others, yelling fire in filled room.

Hate speech, specifically, is protected.

Government policies that preclude free speech are unconstitutional.

This is such an obvious situation and it went completely over the student-athletes' heads.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 27, 2020, 08:09:25 PM
Nothing suspicious about this account at all, not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Chingon on June 27, 2020, 08:10:59 PM
Eh it's one of the old north Dakota state fans
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: TheTruth on June 27, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
I would like to go on record as being fully onboard with this

Ditto.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: lakesbison on June 27, 2020, 08:47:39 PM
Eh it's one of the old north Dakota state fans

ahhh. No. NBD!   Dont sully the NDSU name.  We don't allow politics (left or right or anything else) in our locker room

good luck Klieman and Taylor.  you wanted the millions...
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 27, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 27, 2020, 08:56:40 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 27, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 27, 2020, 09:00:39 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”

ah, yeah, I guess the "disrespectful" line is bad. meh!
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 27, 2020, 09:01:10 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”
Interestingly, the tweets that shitbag Jaden posted about George Floyd don’t violate any of those...
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 27, 2020, 09:24:30 PM
With context it's clearly intended to be racist. The context being what's going on in the world
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 27, 2020, 09:34:38 PM
With context it's clearly intended to be racist. The context being what's going on in the world
I think it’s a slight stretch to call any joke about George Floyd a racist action. I think it’s a huge stretch to say that it is a racist action against a student or group of students

Jaden is clearly a racist, and only made the joke because he is, but the joke doesn’t even meet the standards set forth by the athletes. I hope KSU can find a way to fit rid of him, this ain’t it.
Title: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 27, 2020, 09:40:20 PM
If KSU implements an anti-racism policy to expel this POS, I would donate significantly more than usual if the University ends up in a court battle over it. If there was ever a time to test free speech laws against anti racism policies, this is it.

The tweet itself IMO is just distasteful. But the fact it comes from a racist absolutely elevates it to a racist statement.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: lakesbison on June 27, 2020, 09:48:12 PM
Stupid thing is, this dumbass k state kid tweeted a joke that was like a week old.
He just Must not be that bright,

 Players are goin a tad overboard.  But Mainstream Media & Educational Indoctrination has trained them to push harder and harder.

like where does this even end?   Whats thier Utopia ?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 27, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
Apparently twitter gave him a 12 hour timeout today
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: NDB on June 27, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
If KSU implements an anti-racism policy to expel this POS, I would donate significantly more than usual if the University ends up in a court battle over it. If there was ever a time to test free speech laws against anti racism policies, this is it.

The tweet itself IMO is just distasteful. But the fact it comes from a racist absolutely elevates it to a racist statement.

Would you chip in for his lawyers fees when the university loses?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 27, 2020, 10:16:07 PM
With context it's clearly intended to be racist. The context being what's going on in the world
I think it’s a slight stretch to call any joke about George Floyd a racist action. I think it’s a huge stretch to say that it is a racist action against a student or group of students

Jaden is clearly a racist, and only made the joke because he is, but the joke doesn’t even meet the standards set forth by the athletes. I hope KSU can find a way to fit rid of him, this ain’t it.

I disagree that it doesn't meet the standards but I can see where you're coming from if you nitpick the statement.

Regardless, they aren't asking that he's expelled, they're asking for a policy that lets anyone be expelled for racist speech.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Steffy08 on June 27, 2020, 10:33:58 PM
That the players believe this [crass and stupid] twitter  joke is racist is pretty illuminating as to the problems that come with the [inconstititional] speech ban they are proposing. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 27, 2020, 10:36:29 PM
Shut up steffy.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Stevesie60 on June 28, 2020, 12:19:27 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 12:25:39 AM
If KSU implements an anti-racism policy to expel this POS, I would donate significantly more than usual if the University ends up in a court battle over it. If there was ever a time to test free speech laws against anti racism policies, this is it.

The tweet itself IMO is just distasteful. But the fact it comes from a racist absolutely elevates it to a racist statement.

Would you chip in for his lawyers fees when the university loses?
Why would I do that?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 28, 2020, 06:33:25 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
I don't think anybody is on this guy's side. I'm all for adding verbiage to the kstate ethics code that specifically disallows racism. They could add that, and when him or his club says something racist, expel him/them. But I agree with others that the tweet in and of itself is not racist at all. He is a racist though, which is the argument that has merit. The tweet is only tasteless.

The problem isn't expelling this obvious POS, it's potentially ushering in McCarthyism, a power that could be abused in the future. This is an interesting case study to be honest. I hope they can find a way to get rid of him and legislate specific anti racism policies in the right way.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 07:21:48 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
I don't think anybody is on this guy's side. I'm all for adding verbiage to the kstate ethics code that specifically disallows racism. They could add that, and when him or his club says something racist, expel him/them. But I agree with others that the tweet in and of itself is not racist at all. He is a racist though, which is the argument that has merit. The tweet is only tasteless.

The problem isn't expelling this obvious POS, it's potentially ushering in McCarthyism, a power that could be abused in the future. This is an interesting case study to be honest. I hope they can find a way to get rid of him and legislate specific anti racism policies in the right way.

What leads you to believe Jaden is a racist?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 28, 2020, 07:41:01 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
I don't think anybody is on this guy's side. I'm all for adding verbiage to the kstate ethics code that specifically disallows racism. They could add that, and when him or his club says something racist, expel him/them. But I agree with others that the tweet in and of itself is not racist at all. He is a racist though, which is the argument that has merit. The tweet is only tasteless.

The problem isn't expelling this obvious POS, it's potentially ushering in McCarthyism, a power that could be abused in the future. This is an interesting case study to be honest. I hope they can find a way to get rid of him and legislate specific anti racism policies in the right way.

What leads you to believe Jaden is a racist?
From what I understand he leads a white nationalist club and associates closely with "famous" white nationalist.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 07:52:23 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
I don't think anybody is on this guy's side. I'm all for adding verbiage to the kstate ethics code that specifically disallows racism. They could add that, and when him or his club says something racist, expel him/them. But I agree with others that the tweet in and of itself is not racist at all. He is a racist though, which is the argument that has merit. The tweet is only tasteless.

The problem isn't expelling this obvious POS, it's potentially ushering in McCarthyism, a power that could be abused in the future. This is an interesting case study to be honest. I hope they can find a way to get rid of him and legislate specific anti racism policies in the right way.

What leads you to believe Jaden is a racist?
From what I understand he leads a white nationalist club and associates closely with "famous" white nationalist.

What about the America First club he founded indicates to you it is a white nationalist club?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 28, 2020, 07:59:57 AM
Jesus eff, I can't believe people are on this bad person's side.
I don't think anybody is on this guy's side. I'm all for adding verbiage to the kstate ethics code that specifically disallows racism. They could add that, and when him or his club says something racist, expel him/them. But I agree with others that the tweet in and of itself is not racist at all. He is a racist though, which is the argument that has merit. The tweet is only tasteless.

The problem isn't expelling this obvious POS, it's potentially ushering in McCarthyism, a power that could be abused in the future. This is an interesting case study to be honest. I hope they can find a way to get rid of him and legislate specific anti racism policies in the right way.

What leads you to believe Jaden is a racist?
From what I understand he leads a white nationalist club and associates closely with "famous" white nationalist.

What about the America First club he founded indicates to you it is a white nationalist club?
I said "from what I understand". His club's absolute values are not a hill I'm dying on. I haven't spoke with, or listened to, Nick Fuentes or Patrick Casey either. But both are widely reported as white nationalist. Jaden associates with both.

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 08:06:53 AM
So you are comfortable calling him a racist by association with a club you know nothing about and people you know nothing about but his tweet making light of Lloyd’s murder isn’t racist?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 28, 2020, 08:12:30 AM
So you are comfortable calling him a racist by association with a club you know nothing about and people you know nothing about but his tweet making light of Lloyd’s murder isn’t racist?
I'm not walking to the corner you're trying to paint me in, bro. I didn't say I know nothing about them, but admit I have limited knowledge of them because I don't listen to that type of bullshit. You'll rarely see me say what other people feel unless they explicitly say so. In this case, I should have said "he's likely a racist". I'll stand by that. If you feel differently, that's fine but I don't care.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Cire on June 28, 2020, 08:13:38 AM
https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html

#23 don’t be a racist bad person


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 28, 2020, 08:14:27 AM
https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html

#23 don’t be a racist bad person


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Seconded, cosign, etc.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 09:27:00 AM
the fact that so many people think that the tweet isn't racist because it doesn't use an explicit slur shows how smart and dangerous the kid is. If you read it without context, sure, it's not racist. But given that context exists, it's a clear signal both to alt-right folks across the country and to folks on campus that he's a racist and is gonna get away with it. I'm guessing many blacks and BLM supporters feel it's a threat, even if indirect, while the typical white Kansan is like "I don't see what the big deal is".

someone linked to his telegram page and I came across this (which he didn't actually type, it's kinda like a retweet), but it shows how he thinks:

(https://i.imgur.com/DXXruWo.png)

combine that with his interview with the news where people were protesting his event and he's like "we just want small government, ma'am", the suits, etc., it's clear these folks are trying to brand their racist group as something that isn't a bunch of redneck confederate flag racists that everyone pictures in their head. He might be getting a little more bold than he should (getting TOO much attention) but he can push buttons, get attention, and probably most dangerously, get a following from KSU students whose parents are on KSO defending him.

https://youtu.be/s9opUXiZbA8?t=64

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 28, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
KSO members can relax. Football won’t be canceled because of all this.

Quote
When he first saw McNeil’s offensive tweet, Alexander said his initial reaction wasn’t nuanced.

“It was, ‘Yo, you gotta go. You gotta leave K-State,’” Alexander said.

Alexander’s views slowly have shifted.

“In talking with the president, talking with the student body, talking to educated people, they’re telling us about the First Amendment,” he said. “We’re all grown. We’re all mature. We know that he won’t leave. We know that he can’t get kicked out of Kansas State just for that. ... We’re mature enough to understand that he can’t get kicked out of Kansas State just for that comment. We’re just wanting (K-State) to say, ‘We don’t respect his point of view.’”

https://themercury.com/news/local/how-kansas-state-football-players-vow-to-not-play-practice-or-meet-came-to-be/article_54f4b04b-7c49-5533-97b5-e28b12f2fbbe.html

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: SkinnyBenny on June 28, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
That the players believe this [crass and stupid] twitter  joke is racist is pretty illuminating as to the problems that come with the [inconstititional] speech ban they are proposing.

Tell us more about how inconstitutional it is, Steffy. :love:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 11:36:11 AM
KSO members can relax. Football won’t be canceled because of all this.

Quote
When he first saw McNeil’s offensive tweet, Alexander said his initial reaction wasn’t nuanced.

“It was, ‘Yo, you gotta go. You gotta leave K-State,’” Alexander said.

Alexander’s views slowly have shifted.

“In talking with the president, talking with the student body, talking to educated people, they’re telling us about the First Amendment,” he said. “We’re all grown. We’re all mature. We know that he won’t leave. We know that he can’t get kicked out of Kansas State just for that. ... We’re mature enough to understand that he can’t get kicked out of Kansas State just for that comment. We’re just wanting (K-State) to say, ‘We don’t respect his point of view.’”

https://themercury.com/news/local/how-kansas-state-football-players-vow-to-not-play-practice-or-meet-came-to-be/article_54f4b04b-7c49-5533-97b5-e28b12f2fbbe.html
Wait so we sent all the players home during the covid break???? To Texas???

Gah

Also they played their hand too soon, but that's overall an encouraging read.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Pete on June 28, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
I knew I should have gone to KU.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: EMAWzifried on June 28, 2020, 01:47:34 PM
I knew I should have gone to KU.
Racists there, too.

https://www2.ljworld.com/news/general-news/2020/jun/28/part-of-massachusetts-street-closed-as-protestors-set-up-tents-demand-investigation-into-heinous-and-racist-banner/
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 28, 2020, 02:30:22 PM
so what other government services should we not allow racists access to?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 02:37:06 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”

You can get expelled for sexual harassment, how is a policy.banning race based harassment any different? Like with Gundy and the OAN shirt, why are we making the assumption that their knowledge of this crap head is limited to the one tweet?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 28, 2020, 02:49:12 PM
Harassment is an acceptable standard for expulsion, but so far all mentions to it i've seen have been of the "so I heard he also harassed and doxxed people" variety. Is there any actual proof other than rumor? (fwiw I think it's very likely that the harassment part is true)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 02:52:12 PM


Harassment is an acceptable standard for expulsion, but so far all mentions to it i've seen have been of the "so I heard he also harassed and doxxed people" variety. Is there any actual proof other than rumor? (fwiw I think it's very likely that the harassment part is true)

It can easily be argued that his tweet was harassment (especially combined with his history)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 28, 2020, 02:52:38 PM
Well I very much disagree there
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 02:56:09 PM
Well I very much disagree there
The EEOC explicitly calls out offensive jokes. I realize the EEOC doesn't have jurisdiction here but it's a pretty clear definition.

https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Well I very much disagree there
The EEOC explicitly calls out offensive jokes. I realize the EEOC doesn't have jurisdiction here but it's a pretty clear definition.

https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment

Yeah, weird stance here. There are many examples of "jokes" that are considered harassment. You can't make a constitutional shelter out of something being a joke. If that were the case you could never justify harassment.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 03:03:17 PM
Also that wasn't in any way shape or form a joke. That's what his defenders are saying in retrospect. He very clearly meant that.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 28, 2020, 03:16:10 PM
You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: memphis on June 28, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?

I'd guess the idea would be to expand the behavior to include things outside of that tweet as well.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 03:22:14 PM
You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?

Yes, depending on the context. But I think you know it's different when you're targeting the group with power.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 28, 2020, 03:25:31 PM
Why was my post deleted?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 03:25:34 PM


You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?

I'd guess the idea would be to expand the behavior to include things outside of that tweet as well.

Yes, and also to consider the environment we're in. If he'd made the same joke about someone like say, Prince, no one would have noticed. It was very targeted and part of a pattern.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 28, 2020, 03:27:43 PM


You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?

I'd guess the idea would be to expand the behavior to include things outside of that tweet as well.

Yes, and also to consider the environment we're in. If he'd made the same joke about someone like say, Prince, no one would have noticed. It was very targeted and part of a pattern.

You can interpret almost anything as a pattern. Incredibly short sighted precedence to set.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 28, 2020, 03:58:32 PM
You can't just take EEOC guidance and apply it to private citizens outside of the employment context. Pertaining to private conduct, harassment means something akin to criminal harassment in order to not be protected speech. And if you surveyed First Amendment case law in the U.S., you would see that you can't harass anyone without directing your harassment at a specific individual. Merely "harassing" a group of people (Blacks, Jews, etc.) in an abstract sense is not harassment. Look up Brandenberg v. Ohio, Virginia v. Black (Ginsburg's opinion on cross burning), and Nat'l Socialist Party of Am. v. Village of Skokie. So-called "liberal" and "conservative" justices alike tend to be on the same page when it comes to freedom of expression.

On the other hand, despite language such as "students do not surrender their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate," it is a fact that the Supreme Court has endorsed limiting the constitutional rights of students when classroom conduct causes a "substantial disruption" to classroom learning. However, those cases all deal with high school and below. To my knowledge, it has never been applied at the university level, where professors enjoy almost unlimited academic freedom. College campuses have long been considered the classic "public forum" where ideas can be exchanged without fear of sanction or censure. "Viewpoint discrimination," i.e. policies that target the content of speech, is particularly suspect. Some helpful background reading: https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/991/campus-speech-codes

Any policy that could apply to this bonehead's tweet would almost certainly be unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, as the standard of review would be strict scrutiny, that is, the policy must be "narrowly tailored" to achieve a "compelling government interest." Narrow tailoring is a very high threshold, particularly in free speech law. The school will have to disclose who else it has punished under the policy (if anyone), and the student will point out thousands of rude, distasteful, disrespectful, harrassing etc. social media posts of other students and ask why the policy was not applied to them. The student will be able to make a pretty compelling case that he is being singled out and targeted merely for voicing an unpopular viewpoint (and one that wasn't directed towards anyone other than a dead man).

Some other perspectives:

John Stuart Mill, from On Liberty:

Quote
First, if any opinion is compelled to silence, that opinion may, for aught we can certainly know, be true. To deny this is to assume our own infallibility. Secondly, though the silenced opinion may be an error, it may, and very commonly does, contain a portion of truth; and since the general or prevailing opinion on any subject is rarely or never the whole truth, it is only by the collision of adverse opinions that the remainder of the truth has any chance of being supplied. Thirdly, even if the received opinion be not only true, but the whole truth; unless it is suffered to be, and actually is, vigorously and earnestly contested, it will, by most of those who receive it, be held in the manner of a prejudice, with little comprehension or feeling of its rational grounds

And Justices Brandeis and Holmes (Oliver Wendell) concurring in Whitney v. California:

Quote
Those who won our independence believed that the final end of the state was to make men free to develop their faculties, and that in its government the deliberative forces should prevail over the arbitrary. They valued liberty both as an end and as a means. They believed liberty to be the secret of happiness and courage to be the secret of liberty. They believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth; that without free speech and assembly discussion would be futile; that with them, discussion affords ordinarily adequate protection against the dissemination of noxious doctrine; that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public discussion is a political duty; and that this should be a fundamental principle of the American government.
* * *
Believing in the power of reason as applied through public discussion, they eschewed silence coerced by law—the argument of force in its worst form. Recognizing the occasional tyrannies of governing majorities, they amended the Constitution so that free speech and assembly should be guaranteed.

Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppressions of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women**. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears.
* * *
Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence. Only an emergency can justify repression. Such must be the rule if authority is to be reconciled with freedom. Such, in my opinion, is the command of the Constitution . . .

**highlighting this sentence because it has always stuck with me, and I've never read a 6 word sentence as powerful.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
TIL you can say “I want to kill all n-words” and apparently universities cannot do anything about it because it’s not directed to an individual.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 04:12:38 PM
To be clear, I don't think he should receive criminal punishment for the tweet.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
Lol did not read
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 28, 2020, 04:17:29 PM
TIL you can say “I want to kill all n-words” and apparently universities cannot do anything about it because it’s not directed to an individual.

I know you're better than that, honky.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 28, 2020, 04:22:02 PM
?s=21

Wow I wonder if the doxxing is real? Huh...


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Title: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 04:24:42 PM
TIL you can say “I want to kill all n-words” and apparently universities cannot do anything about it because it’s not directed to an individual.

I know you're better than that, honky.

Is that not the takeaway? Surely individuals can feel threatened even if the language doesn’t single them out. If that’s true, I don’t see it supported from the standards you’ve laid out.

I don’t think the George Floyd tweet rises all the way to that level, but I can certainly understand why other black students would be extremely uncomfortable with a statement from a white ardent Trump supporter mocking a murdered black man.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 28, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
?s=21

Wow I wonder if the doxxing is real? Huh...


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He's already setting up his case. "If this policy is legit, why is it OK for these people to actually threaten a fellow student without being subjected to the same policy? Is it because you simply don't like what I had to say?"

@catastrophe, yes, individuals can feel threatened with being called out by name. I thought it was a crass, classless tweet, myself. But that is not enough to justify state action. Nor do I think any reasonable person would interpret it as a threat. The whole problem is that, if you're going to adopt a policy that purports to target this kind of speech, you either have to use it or you lose it. You can't apply it arbitrarily whenever you feel the University is getting bad press.

If a school wants to adopt (and keep) such a policy, it has to be uniformly applied. That, in and of itself, would be enough to give school administrators fits.

My guess would be that what ends up happening is the University has some strong words against this student but concludes that they can't justly expel him based on current campus policies, but they are in the process of rewriting those policies to address issues like this in the future.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 28, 2020, 04:44:05 PM
My guess would be that what ends up happening is the University has some strong words against this student but concludes that they can't justly expel him based on current campus policies, but they are in the process of rewriting those policies to address issues like this in the future.

Which happens to be what the players asked for
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
Yeah the dude is def wanting to come with a list of other offenders.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Spracs I'm not a "law guy" but for the cases you've cited were those people accused of crimes or jailed? I don't think anyone is suggesting to take away his liberty. I, for one, would encourage him to enjoy educational opportunities somewhere else.

Is it bc KSU is a public institution?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 28, 2020, 05:04:21 PM
Spracs I'm not a "law guy" but for the cases you've cited were those people accused of crimes or jailed? I don't think anyone is suggesting to take away his liberty. I, for one, would encourage him to enjoy educational opportunities somewhere else.

Is it bc KSU is a public institution?
Yes, KSU is a "state actor" for Constitutional purposes. Bear in mind that Constitutional rights only protect individuals from state action.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 28, 2020, 05:25:00 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”

You can get expelled for sexual harassment, how is a policy.banning race based harassment any different? Like with Gundy and the OAN shirt, why are we making the assumption that their knowledge of this crap head is limited to the one tweet?
I think a policy banning race based harassment could be a good one. I don’t think a policy banning disrespect, with penalty of expulsion, would be good in any circumstance.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 28, 2020, 05:46:04 PM
My guess would be that what ends up happening is the University has some strong words against this student but concludes that they can't justly expel him based on current campus policies, but they are in the process of rewriting those policies to address issues like this in the future.

Which happens to be what the players asked for
Yes, that’s right


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: memphis on June 28, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
My guess would be that what ends up happening is the University has some strong words against this student but concludes that they can't justly expel him based on current campus policies, but they are in the process of rewriting those policies to address issues like this in the future.

Which happens to be what the players asked for

Depending on how that new policy is written and enforced, and I'm guessing this is out of Spracs wheelhouse, how would the new policy also not be subject to a 1st amendment challenge?

 Just be in a better position to hold up by having some precedent on campus for making students abide by it? I mean KSU would still be a state school and the constitution would still be there...
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 28, 2020, 06:08:47 PM
My guess would be that what ends up happening is the University has some strong words against this student but concludes that they can't justly expel him based on current campus policies, but they are in the process of rewriting those policies to address issues like this in the future.

Which happens to be what the players asked for

Depending on how that new policy is written and enforced, and I'm guessing this is out of Spracs wheelhouse, how would the new policy also not be subject to a 1st amendment challenge?

 Just be in a better position to hold up by having some precedent on campus for making students abide by it? I mean KSU would still be a state school and the constitution would still be there...

Policies that "discriminate on the basis of race" (e.g., affirmative action) are subject to the same standard of review ("strict scrutiny"), and yet several such policies have been found in the university context to be "narrowly tailored" to further a "compelling government interest," namely, diversity in higher education.

Affirmative action policies, just like campus speech codes, implicate constitutional rights, and thus have to be very carefully drafted and applied. But just because they affect constitutional rights does not mean that they are per se unconstitutional (Sometimes they are. For example, racial quotas are per se unconstitutional). It remains theoretically possible to narrowly tailor speech codes to advance a compelling government interest. And if there is one administrator who could narrowly tailor such a policy, who better than Gene Tailor?

While there hasn't been a case construing campus speech codes that has made it all the way to SCOTUS, a policy that was evenly applied would stand a better chance of passing constitutional muster. I would envision a system with progressively more severe sanctions based on clear criteria. First offense? Warning. Second offense? Notation on your permanent record. Third offense? Show cause hearing before student government body to demonstrate why you should not be publicly sanctioned. .... X offense? Possible expulsion. And then you would have to investigate every report of threatening or harrassing communications, and apply clear standards in an even-handed manner. No Constitutional right is absolute. Even First Amendment rights are subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The key is to avoid vagueness, overbreadth, and arbitrary enforcement, as those are the usual grounds for striking down speech-based state actions.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
Easy way to have a policy that expels white supremacists is to stipulate that enforcement on the first offense can be waived if the person publicly states that they had no intention to disparage a protected group or support the superiority of any racial group.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 28, 2020, 07:10:30 PM
Alternate (better?) idea: raise tuition to $200k per semester, but unlimited scholarships available for students who write a 200 word essay describing why black lives matter.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 07:13:18 PM
You're making a gigantic reach if you are classifying that tweet as harassment.

If I tweet out something derogatory about Jesus, am I harrasing Christians?

Depends on the circumstance, however that wasn't really the point, the larger point is "it was a joke" isn't a defense of harassment.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 07:14:40 PM
Pretty rough ridin' stupid.  They want a policy put in place to be able to dismiss a person from the university for being disrespectful. What a clown show.

Just go beat up this individual piece of crap person who attends the university and said stuff on Twitter and move on.

easy for you to dismiss this guy as just being "disrespectful".

oddly enough, beating up this guy would CLEARLY be grounds for dismissal
No, I’m talking specifically about the statement from the athletes. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.”

You can get expelled for sexual harassment, how is a policy.banning race based harassment any different? Like with Gundy and the OAN shirt, why are we making the assumption that their knowledge of this crap head is limited to the one tweet?
I think a policy banning race based harassment could be a good one. I don’t think a policy banning disrespect, with penalty of expulsion, would be good in any circumstance.

Don't get lost in the weeds.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 28, 2020, 07:16:49 PM
Why was my post deleted?

Did eastcat actually have a post deleted?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DaBigTrain on June 28, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
If so it was the deep state mods  :shakesfist:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 28, 2020, 07:23:41 PM
Why was my post deleted?

Did eastcat actually have a post deleted?

Yep. Asked Michigan cat why he hated the constitution so much.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 28, 2020, 07:24:55 PM
Why was my post deleted?

Did eastcat actually have a post deleted?

Yep. Asked Michigan cat why he hated the constitution so much.
Lolz. Well I wouldn’t say he hates the constitution...


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 28, 2020, 07:28:19 PM
Why was my post deleted?

Did eastcat actually have a post deleted?

Yep. Asked Michigan cat why he hated the constitution so much.

It's right here. You even got an answer from him.

https://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=41201.msg1990490#msg1990490
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 07:38:23 PM
More like cantreadcat
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 28, 2020, 08:48:53 PM
On a serious note, this season would be a great opportunity to end football at the college level.

We know its dangerous. This is a convenient place to stop.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 28, 2020, 10:04:47 PM
with athletes able to profit off of their likeness I would be ok with a professional only model for sports.  Universities could focus on education and maybe some intramural activities.  Flag football obviously.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: wetwillie on June 28, 2020, 10:11:35 PM
Minor league football teams wouldn’t work
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 28, 2020, 10:15:47 PM
This Jaden fellow has really gotten under my skin.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: SkinnyBenny on June 29, 2020, 12:21:00 AM
On a serious note, this season would be a great opportunity to end football at the college level.

We know its dangerous. This is a convenient place to stop.

Hey bud remember a few posts ago when you tried to play the victim and then had your question answered very clearly and then just tried to skate right on past it with no acknowledgement other than, “on a serious note...”

Rofl @ eastcat
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 04:22:35 AM
On a serious note, this season would be a great opportunity to end football at the college level.

We know its dangerous. This is a convenient place to stop.

with athletes able to profit off of their likeness I would be ok with a professional only model for sports.  Universities could focus on education and maybe some intramural activities.  Flag football obviously.

These honkeys are so upset about student-athletes actually being treated like humans that they are ready to punt on college sports, literally overnight.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 08:06:29 AM
On a serious note, this season would be a great opportunity to end football at the college level.

We know its dangerous. This is a convenient place to stop.

with athletes able to profit off of their likeness I would be ok with a professional only model for sports.  Universities could focus on education and maybe some intramural activities.  Flag football obviously.

These honkeys are so upset about student-athletes actually being treated like humans that they are ready to punt on college sports, literally overnight.

Our point had more to do with professionalism and CTE safety, but if that allows you an opportunity to use racist slang, you do you....
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 29, 2020, 08:15:22 AM
yes MIR please show some decorum if you must spout that kind of vitriol could you at least say like "the h-word" instead of spelling out h**keys?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 09:39:41 AM
Not a good look for some of my fellow honkeys ITT
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 09:54:11 AM

:emawkid:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on June 29, 2020, 09:55:34 AM
He has been a pleasant surprise all around. I really hope we hold onto him for a long time.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: KITNfury on June 29, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
He has been a pleasant surprise all around. I really hope we hold onto him for a long time.
I think he'll both win and leave. Better than losing and staying.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: WildcatNkilt on June 29, 2020, 10:09:58 AM
He has been a pleasant surprise all around. I really hope we hold onto him for a long time.
I think he'll both win and leave. Better than losing and staying.

Keep Gene, keep CK IMO.  Need to pay up, though. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: WildcatNkilt on June 29, 2020, 10:10:57 AM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 10:23:21 AM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: bucket on June 29, 2020, 10:38:29 AM
I had no idea eastcat was such a crap human.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 10:38:38 AM

:emawkid:


Hopefully he can win in front of an empty BSFS.

Like it or not the program only exists because the fans pay for it. Not because the players play for it.

Most KSU fans do not support BLM or its race-revenge pandering narrative. Telling the average white Kansan they're evil and then asking for a donation won't play out like you think it will.

I'd be thrilled if folks like you never supported the program again. See ya!  :adios:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 10:40:25 AM
I had no idea eastcat was such a crap human.

Have you never read any of his posts? I honestly thought he was banned a while back for posting a bunch of racist gifs
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: WildcatNkilt on June 29, 2020, 10:42:59 AM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

   
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 10:44:48 AM

:emawkid:


Hopefully he can win in front of an empty BSFS.

Like it or not the program only exists because the fans pay for it. Not because the players play for it.

Most KSU fans do not support BLM or its race-revenge pandering narrative. Telling the average white Kansan they're evil and then asking for a donation won't play out like you think it will.

I'd be thrilled if folks like you never supported the program again. See ya!  :adios:
Yes fans pay, but man I couldn’t care less if fans like you never paid again.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: bucket on June 29, 2020, 10:50:45 AM
I had no idea eastcat was such a crap human.

Have you never read any of his posts? I honestly thought he was banned a while back for posting a bunch of racist gifs

I don't recall seeing him post in a long time. I don't remember seeing him post anything like that before. Maybe I'm thinking of another more pleasant poster who hasn't posted on gE in a while.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 11:02:49 AM
On a serious note, this season would be a great opportunity to end football at the college level.

We know its dangerous. This is a convenient place to stop.

with athletes able to profit off of their likeness I would be ok with a professional only model for sports.  Universities could focus on education and maybe some intramural activities.  Flag football obviously.

These honkeys are so upset about student-athletes actually being treated like humans that they are ready to punt on college sports, literally overnight.

Our point had more to do with professionalism and CTE safety, but if that allows you an opportunity to use racist slang, you do you....

 :ROFL: we aren't as stupid as you are. If that was your reasoning you would have been done with football long ago. You aren't in favor of NIL compensation, you want them to play and to keep them broke, broken, and silent, like in the good ol' days of January 2020'
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 29, 2020, 11:04:07 AM
I had no idea eastcat was such a crap human.

Have you never read any of his posts? I honestly thought he was banned a while back for posting a bunch of racist gifs

I don't recall seeing him post in a long time. I don't remember seeing him post anything like that before. Maybe I'm thinking of another more pleasant poster who hasn't posted on gE in a while.

he only comes and posts when there is an opportunity to be a racist. very strange to choose to do so on gE.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 11:07:19 AM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

 

I agree with this
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 29, 2020, 11:13:15 AM
From my perspective, CK seems like a good manager/person.  I'm glad we have him leading the program rn.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 29, 2020, 11:14:31 AM
From my perspective, CK seems like a good manager/person.  I'm glad we have him leading the program rn.

Agree
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 12:25:10 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I'll get prepared to be called a racist but please know I agree with this idiot to be thrown off campus.  Just not sure I've seen something that will work well quite yet or have another idiot cause the same issue in the aftermath. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 29, 2020, 12:42:57 PM
I agree with this idiot to be thrown off campus.  Just not sure I've seen something that will work well quite yet or have another idiot cause the same issue in the aftermath.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
I mean he made the tweet Thursday night and it's Monday morning so yeah I don't think they are gonna solve on-campus racism in that time.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 12:53:30 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 01:01:44 PM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

 

I agree with this

I tend to agree as well. The part that scares me in all of this is the idea that the 'state' would expel a young kid (or anyone for that matter) from a public school for something he says on Twitter. Maybe this kid in particular is a dumbass and/or a dirtbag, but the idea that a student at a public university is expelled based on speech is concerning. A lot of dumbasses and dirtbags go to school.. isn't that the purpose? Based on the first amendment related tweets that one of the athletes made after a meeting with KSU administration, it sounds like the administration tends to also agree.

At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 01:05:02 PM
At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.

it means that black lives matter, not terribly difficult to comprehend
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 29, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

 

I agree with this

I tend to agree as well. The part that scares me in all of this is the idea that the 'state' would expel a young kid (or anyone for that matter) from a public school for something he says on Twitter. Maybe this kid in particular is a dumbass and/or a dirtbag, but the idea that a student at a public university is expelled based on speech is concerning. A lot of dumbasses and dirtbags go to school.. isn't that the purpose? Based on the first amendment related tweets that one of the athletes made after a meeting with KSU administration, it sounds like the administration tends to also agree.

At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.

Would you be okay if he said "Black lives matter" instead of "Black Lives Matter"? I think one can state that black lives matter without hitching one's wagon to all BLM-related activities for the rest of time.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 01:11:50 PM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

 

I agree with this

I tend to agree as well. The part that scares me in all of this is the idea that the 'state' would expel a young kid (or anyone for that matter) from a public school for something he says on Twitter. Maybe this kid in particular is a dumbass and/or a dirtbag, but the idea that a student at a public university is expelled based on speech is concerning. A lot of dumbasses and dirtbags go to school.. isn't that the purpose? Based on the first amendment related tweets that one of the athletes made after a meeting with KSU administration, it sounds like the administration tends to also agree.

At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.

Would you be okay if he said "Black lives matter" instead of "Black Lives Matter"? I think one can state that black lives matter without hitching one's wagon to all BLM-related activities for the rest of time.

Yes.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 01:16:05 PM
What does BLM actually stand for and what is their eventual endgame?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 29, 2020, 01:18:38 PM
What does BLM actually stand for and what is their eventual endgame?

My dad thinks they are a terror organization that aspires to nothing less than the complete breakdown of social order and white genocide.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 29, 2020, 01:21:57 PM
What does BLM actually stand for and what is their eventual endgame?

My dad thinks they are a terror organization that aspires to nothing less than the complete breakdown of social order and white genocide.

there's probably a lot of dads and moms out there that feel the same way. probably a lot more than i want to think.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 01:22:29 PM
What's his texags handle?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: pissclams on June 29, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
BLM's endgame is something i've been hyper-focused on decoding ever since so many of these black conspirators so conveniently decided to die.   what are these folks really up to?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
guys I infiltrated the BLM cell and came back with some intel. sounds fishy

Quote
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 01:35:21 PM
guys I infiltrated the BLM cell and came back with some intel. sounds fishy

Quote
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

You also don't have to read far to find anti-family and Marxist ideas.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 29, 2020, 01:41:25 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.









Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.











they're also anti-family
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 01:46:19 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.











they're also anti-family

It's on their website, not mine.

Quote
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 01:49:22 PM
guys I infiltrated the BLM cell and came back with some intel. sounds fishy

Quote
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

I for one will want some more information like, do you know if they have a flag?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 29, 2020, 01:49:44 PM
the point is that the org stands for more than the relatively narrow issue of ending police brutality or other bodily threats to black people, which is much broader than what I think most people are referring to when they say "black lives matter."

which is fine -- they're definitely allowed to stand (or not stand) for whatever they want.  but it's fair to draw a distinction between "black lives matter" and "Black Lives Matter."
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 01:50:30 PM
Stupid thing is, this dumbass k state kid tweeted a joke that was like a week old.
He just Must not be that bright,

 Players are goin a tad overboard.  But Mainstream Media & Educational Indoctrination has trained them to push harder and harder.

like where does this even end?   Whats thier Utopia ?
im all for black lives matter. i'm all for letting the players speak their opinion more often. but its pretty obvious the players got caught up in the popular thing to do at the moment movement which is jump out at any borderline or outright thing in our life that could be perceived as racist or anti BLM. I"m not sure why anyone cares what one kid on twitter thinks when there are roughly 1 million kids on twitter saying racist and offensive things EVERY DAY! unfortunately for KSU this kid has the KSU logo on his twitter account otherwise the fb players would have never cared enough to speak up. i dont think the players needed to burn down our university reputation over something a single punk wrote on a social platform that is famous for disparaging uses. the players statements sounded very oppositional to the university. they apparently never even stopped long enough to think about what they were asking. then when they had a few hours to reflect on what they really wanted they asked for something that had already occurred several hours earlier in the day. the president and coaches condemned the tweet very early in that afternoon. the players are young and naive but need to learn to wield their power in a very deliberate manner with well thought out intentions. right now they are just jumping on the bandwagon and in my opinion hurting the group of people who are their biggest supporters
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 01:52:23 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.











they're also anti-family

It's on their website, not mine.

Quote
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

Monsters smdh
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 01:53:41 PM
Love thy neighbor is just a little too radical for this freedom lover
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
Stupid thing is, this dumbass k state kid tweeted a joke that was like a week old.
He just Must not be that bright,

 Players are goin a tad overboard.  But Mainstream Media & Educational Indoctrination has trained them to push harder and harder.

like where does this even end?   Whats thier Utopia ?
im all for black lives matter. i'm all for letting the players speak their opinion more often. but its pretty obvious the players got caught up in the popular thing to do at the moment movement which is jump out at any borderline or outright thing in our life that could be perceived as racist or anti BLM. I"m not sure why anyone cares what one kid on twitter thinks when there are roughly 1 million kids on twitter saying racist and offensive things EVERY DAY! unfortunately for KSU this kid has the KSU logo on his twitter account otherwise the fb players would have never cared enough to speak up. i dont think the players needed to burn down our university reputation over something a single punk wrote on a social platform that is famous for disparaging uses. the players statements sounded very oppositional to the university. they apparently never even stopped long enough to think about what they were asking. then when they had a few hours to reflect on what they really wanted they asked for something that had already occurred several hours earlier in the day. the president and coaches condemned the tweet very early in that afternoon. the players are young and naive but need to learn to wield their power in a very deliberate manner with well thought out intentions. right now they are just jumping on the bandwagon and in my opinion hurting the group of people who are their biggest supporters

the players are forcing the coaches and administration to make the university look good. They had an initial reaction, had meetings, and then came out with a new unified statement.

And who exactly are they hurting?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:05:05 PM
So you are comfortable calling him a racist by association with a club you know nothing about and people you know nothing about but his tweet making light of Lloyd’s murder isn’t racist?
have u ever read what some of these guys write on twitter? they may try to avoid saying things that others could without a doubt call racist but there is no doubt at all they are there to stir up trouble with other people whether those other people are black or any other color. now whether ksu can find something to justify kicking him out i'm not sure. my personal preference would be to ignore the loser and let him die a quiet death but if its me i'm looking for something i can put in policy just for punks like him that want to start trouble that will make it very difficult for him to avoid crossing that line in future jerkiness. yes some might call it censoring and i'm not a lawyer but if the vast majority of the people find something offensive and someone repeatedly flaunts that offensiveness then i think they should at least be able to remove him from their organization.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 02:11:09 PM
So you are comfortable calling him a racist by association with a club you know nothing about and people you know nothing about but his tweet making light of Lloyd’s murder isn’t racist?
have u ever read what some of these guys write on twitter? they may try to avoid saying things that others could without a doubt call racist but there is no doubt at all they are there to stir up trouble with other people whether those other people are black or any other color. now whether ksu can find something to justify kicking him out i'm not sure. my personal preference would be to ignore the loser and let him die a quiet death but if its me i'm looking for something i can put in policy just for punks like him that want to start trouble that will make it very difficult for him to avoid crossing that line in future jerkiness. yes some might call it censoring and i'm not a lawyer but if the vast majority of the people find something offensive and someone repeatedly flaunts that offensiveness then i think they should at least be able to remove him from their organization.

this is what the players asked for
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:13:37 PM
Well I very much disagree there
unless the boy has not had a phone, television or been out of the basement in the last month with no human contact which is not likely given he is tweeting on a social media platform then he is acutely aware of the current environment in this country. knowing he is aware of the environment it is certainly VERY reasonable to assume he knew he was being distasteful and purposely chose a now famous murdered black man to be the central figure of his "joke".
you know i dont really care if it didn't meet some required minimum criteria of racism. the kid is not stupid and is an absolute punk. anyone who doesn't agree with at least that is fooling themselves and has serious issues themselves. and i think someone needs to teach him a lesson whatever form that takes. but hopefully the kind that gets rid of him wearing our colors. he's got something bad coming his way sooner or later whether its from a policy standpoint or a greater authority
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 29, 2020, 02:14:48 PM
Another big advantage of having a policy in place like the one I sketched earlier is that the university can simply say, "We have a policy in place and are adhering to it. For privacy reasons, we are not permitted to comment further."
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 29, 2020, 02:19:40 PM
Another big advantage of having a policy in place like the one I sketched earlier is that the university can simply say, "We have a policy in place and are adhering to it. For privacy reasons, we are not permitted to comment further."
Your policy wouldn't withstand constitutional scrutiny I don't think.  At least not if it was to be applied to negatively impact this kid's statement.
Title: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 02:21:19 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


An update from Dick
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 02:23:05 PM
Well I very much disagree there
unless the boy has not had a phone, television or been out of the basement in the last month with no human contact which is not likely given he is tweeting on a social media platform then he is acutely aware of the current environment in this country. knowing he is aware of the environment it is certainly VERY reasonable to assume he knew he was being distasteful and purposely chose a now famous murdered black man to be the central figure of his "joke".
you know i dont really care if it didn't meet some required minimum criteria of racism. the kid is not stupid and is an absolute punk. anyone who doesn't agree with at least that is fooling themselves and has serious issues themselves. and i think someone needs to teach him a lesson whatever form that takes. but hopefully the kind that gets rid of him wearing our colors. he's got something bad coming his way sooner or later whether its from a policy standpoint or a greater authority

Maybe you meant to quote a different post because this response has nothing to do with what I said
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 02:24:44 PM
At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.

it means that black lives matter, not terribly difficult to comprehend

woof

Quote
Mr. Johnson, who was black, told police negotiators that “he was upset about Black Lives Matter,” Chief Brown said. “He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

5 dead, 9 injured. How soon we forget.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
Also I have no idea how Bill would have reacted in this situation, if at all.  If I had to take a guess it would be not favorable.

Can you define "favorable"?
i think the college coaches know a whole lot more about what BLM meaning is because they actually talk to black people. the vast majority of white people dont have discussions with black people therefore are left to their own ignorance to fill in the question with their own naive answer. i consider myself ignorant and naive and only have an opinion because i listened to some very well spoken black NFL players explain themselves in 10 minute videos recently. they agree that all lives matter and white lives matter. they are on board with that. their issue is that black lives have not seemed to matter as much as other lives and have not illicited similar responses by the country to negative happenings to the group. so black lives is not intended to diminish others lives as much as they think its necessary to elevate the black lives movement so they can be included in the all lives matter conversation. right now they feel like their lives do not matter as much. and i think they may have a point

Favorable may not have been the best word choice, but not favorable in the sense he may have taken no action or statement at all.  This situation may be a bit outside of Bill's comfort zone and I don't think he would have liked the players threatening to boycott the game and team.  CK is in full support of the players and the movement.

 

I agree with this

I tend to agree as well. The part that scares me in all of this is the idea that the 'state' would expel a young kid (or anyone for that matter) from a public school for something he says on Twitter. Maybe this kid in particular is a dumbass and/or a dirtbag, but the idea that a student at a public university is expelled based on speech is concerning. A lot of dumbasses and dirtbags go to school.. isn't that the purpose? Based on the first amendment related tweets that one of the athletes made after a meeting with KSU administration, it sounds like the administration tends to also agree.

At risk of being labeled a racist, I also cringe when college coaches openly endorse Black Lives Matter. I think very few people know what this actual group stands for or what it's endgame really is. But, questioning the group -- is out of the question -- and is only done by 'racists'.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:36:00 PM
Stupid thing is, this dumbass k state kid tweeted a joke that was like a week old.
He just Must not be that bright,

 Players are goin a tad overboard.  But Mainstream Media & Educational Indoctrination has trained them to push harder and harder.

like where does this even end?   Whats thier Utopia ?
im all for black lives matter. i'm all for letting the players speak their opinion more often. but its pretty obvious the players got caught up in the popular thing to do at the moment movement which is jump out at any borderline or outright thing in our life that could be perceived as racist or anti BLM. I"m not sure why anyone cares what one kid on twitter thinks when there are roughly 1 million kids on twitter saying racist and offensive things EVERY DAY! unfortunately for KSU this kid has the KSU logo on his twitter account otherwise the fb players would have never cared enough to speak up. i dont think the players needed to burn down our university reputation over something a single punk wrote on a social platform that is famous for disparaging uses. the players statements sounded very oppositional to the university. they apparently never even stopped long enough to think about what they were asking. then when they had a few hours to reflect on what they really wanted they asked for something that had already occurred several hours earlier in the day. the president and coaches condemned the tweet very early in that afternoon. the players are young and naive but need to learn to wield their power in a very deliberate manner with well thought out intentions. right now they are just jumping on the bandwagon and in my opinion hurting the group of people who are their biggest supporters

the players are forcing the coaches and administration to make the university look good. They had an initial reaction, had meetings, and then came out with a new unified statement.

And who exactly are they hurting?
kansas state ended up on the front page of every national newspaper in the country with a headline that stated our fb players were protesting against the university for racist tweets. maybe i'm too sensitive but i took that personally. i dont think one punk on twitter represents kansas state. i think they blew it out of proportion and hurt our image. the people and alumni of this university are these kids biggest supporters outside of their own families. we pay for their school, their lodging, their food and give them them opportunity to showcase their talents. i mean most of kansas state supports them in  a way no one else does. and their knee jerk reaction caused harm in my opinion to our reputation. at least in the short run
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 02:41:53 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
Eastcat more like lukedcat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 29, 2020, 02:44:52 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.











they're also anti-family

It's on their website, not mine.

Quote
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

Monsters smdh

The "systemic" destruction of the black patriarchal family over the past 60 years has nothing to do with the current situation or environment that got us here, either.  </sarcasm>
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


An update from Dick
did kansas state have a racism problem before last Friday? i mean i know most racism is hidden and spoken behind closed doors but the way these things are written make it sound like we have a problem that maybe others dont have. there is no reference to national perspectives. i'm glad they are putting down some plans for that this is good. but isn't it amazing what 1 punk ass kid on social platform a platform famous for bad purposes can do to the image of hundreds of thousands of other people with no association to the kid? if ksu can flip this thing from a negative to a positive then hats off to them.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 02:50:40 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


An update from Dick
did kansas state have a racism problem before last Friday? i mean i know most racism is hidden and spoken behind closed doors but the way these things are written make it sound like we have a problem that maybe others dont have. there is no reference to national perspectives. i'm glad they are putting down some plans for that this is good. but isn't it amazing what 1 punk ass kid on social platform a platform famous for bad purposes can do to the image of hundreds of thousands of other people with no association to the kid? if ksu can flip this thing from a negative to a positive then hats off to them.

KSU mostly had a hoax hate crime issue that painted it in a bad light.

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/education/article221373355.html (https://www.kansas.com/news/local/education/article221373355.html)

Both incidents garnered national public attention and damaged the university's reputation. Neither were punished or prosecuted. I suspect Jaden won't have the same outcome, due to the color of his skin.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 02:51:28 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
LOL no one believes it was a joke. no one. it wasn't .  and i would ask why all my republican conservative friends most non KSU grads reject this kid's tweet too. in fact i can't find anyone anywhere on the political spectrum that didn't reject the comments and hope they never have to see something similar again. so it doesn't appear to be a "left" thing. it appears to be a human thing. i'm almost positive if asked that even Trump would reject this type of speech. so i'm not sure who is left. is there anybody in your pocket? or you by yourself?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 02:54:08 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


An update from Dick
did kansas state have a racism problem before last Friday? i mean i know most racism is hidden and spoken behind closed doors but the way these things are written make it sound like we have a problem that maybe others dont have. there is no reference to national perspectives. i'm glad they are putting down some plans for that this is good. but isn't it amazing what 1 punk ass kid on social platform a platform famous for bad purposes can do to the image of hundreds of thousands of other people with no association to the kid? if ksu can flip this thing from a negative to a positive then hats off to them.
Kstate has had problems in the past. In recent memory the noose that was hung outside of hale library, the blackface sorority girls that ended up leaving campus because people recognized them on campus.
There is always an internal incident on campus at a dorm hall almost every fall since I have been here. It is a problem. And I’d say every campus has problems but ours have been very prevalent the last few years. And Jaden hasn’t helped.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 02:54:33 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 02:54:41 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
LOL no one believes it was a joke. no one. it wasn't .  and i would ask why all my republican conservative friends most non KSU grads reject this kid's tweet too. in fact i can't find anyone anywhere on the political spectrum that didn't reject the comments and hope they never have to see something similar again. so it doesn't appear to be a "left" thing. it appears to be a human thing. i'm almost positive if asked that even Trump would reject this type of speech. so i'm not sure who is left. is there anybody in your pocket? or you by yourself?

Who decides if it was a joke? The joke court or the joke police?

"Hello joke Judge, we have alot of really sensitive people around here, I need you to rule if this joke was a thought crime or not. According to the plaintiff, he didn't find it funny."
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: SkinnyBenny on June 29, 2020, 02:55:28 PM
I had no idea eastcat was such a crap human.

He used to commonly be referred to as "Known Worst Poster Eastcat" for a reason
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 29, 2020, 02:57:49 PM
It was a stolen joke, made racist.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 02:59:54 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.

I mean, there might be an example out there, but outside of maybe serial killers and war criminals can you think of a “joke” about a recent dead guy that was well received by either end of the political spectrum?

It’s in extremely poor taste either way, but considering the source and the race conversations surrounding Floyd the tweet was basically a dog whistle into a megaphone.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
LOL no one believes it was a joke. no one. it wasn't .  and i would ask why all my republican conservative friends most non KSU grads reject this kid's tweet too. in fact i can't find anyone anywhere on the political spectrum that didn't reject the comments and hope they never have to see something similar again. so it doesn't appear to be a "left" thing. it appears to be a human thing. i'm almost positive if asked that even Trump would reject this type of speech. so i'm not sure who is left. is there anybody in your pocket? or you by yourself?

Who decides if it was a joke? The joke court or the joke police?

"Hello joke Judge, we have alot of really sensitive people around here, I need you to rule if this joke was a thought crime or not. According to the plaintiff, he didn't find it funny."
Nah man, joking about someone who has been dead for a month and claiming they are drug free for the first time in a while is not funny.  I think it’s an bad person move personally. Like forreal have a heart and use good judgement. It’s not that hard man.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: SkinnyBenny on June 29, 2020, 03:03:20 PM
It is sorta interesting (in addition to obviously shitty) to watch the occasional person such as Known Worst Poster Eastcat twist themselves into knots trying to defend the tweet.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 03:04:14 PM
Too bad okcat doesn't post anymore
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:16 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.
east cat has hate in his heart and no amount of encouragement is going to change that. that's why it has taken so long to rid ourselves of racism. we basically have to wait for all the cruel fuckers to die and hope their kids and grandkids gradually become a little better people than their parents. at least that's what my racist friend told me. he said his dad and granddad taught him those things and didn't know any better until he went to college. and after that he couldn't really change his pattern of thoughts he just realized they might be wrong and was willing to admit it to himself.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.
LOL no one believes it was a joke. no one. it wasn't .  and i would ask why all my republican conservative friends most non KSU grads reject this kid's tweet too. in fact i can't find anyone anywhere on the political spectrum that didn't reject the comments and hope they never have to see something similar again. so it doesn't appear to be a "left" thing. it appears to be a human thing. i'm almost positive if asked that even Trump would reject this type of speech. so i'm not sure who is left. is there anybody in your pocket? or you by yourself?

Who decides if it was a joke? The joke court or the joke police?

"Hello joke Judge, we have alot of really sensitive people around here, I need you to rule if this joke was a thought crime or not. According to the plaintiff, he didn't find it funny."
Nah man, joking about someone who has been dead for a month and claiming they are drug free for the first time in a while is not funny.  I think it’s an bad person move personally. Like forreal have a heart and use good judgement. It’s not that hard man.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 29, 2020, 03:13:52 PM
I, for one, stan Kashi's use of the quote function. Did he slip a comment in there somewhere or just quote for posterity? we may never know...
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 03:14:01 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060 (https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060)

Quote
Universities have always been places where controversial ideas can be widely shared and discussed. Our goal, embedded in our Principles of Community, is that this discourse be civil, with participants being treated with dignity and respect. We want every student on our campuses, as well as all faculty and staff, to know they are safe and to be treated with respect and common decency. These have been our values since our founding. There is no place on our campuses for racism, hate and bigotry.

Or jokes apparently.

The left loves talk and speech until it's words they don't like. Then it must be suppressed, rejected, controlled, punished.

It has to be one of the most blatant double standards in modern political discourse.

I mean, there might be an example out there, but outside of maybe serial killers and war criminals can you think of a “joke” about a recent dead guy that was well received by either end of the political spectrum?

It’s in extremely poor taste either way, but considering the source and the race conversations surrounding Floyd the tweet was basically a dog whistle into a megaphone.

Like when Dave Chappelle made a skit on "Not believing" Michael Jackson's child molestation accusers? OR his skits on OJ murdering his wife?

You guys can't define a threshold on this, because it's a double standard.


George Floyd met an unfair and unjust death, but that doesn't make the man a saint. Even if he were the most nobel person in history, endorsing a public university to control a students private twitter account is absurd.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 29, 2020, 03:15:34 PM
Alright possibly racist posters Purplewood and Eastcat, group up with me.

The question isn't whether or not it was a joke, or if it was a joke, whether or not it was funny. The question is, how much oxygen do you give a single, insensitive tweet? And on what basis is that response justified? The marketplace of ideas will work itself out.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: eastcat on June 29, 2020, 03:21:24 PM
Alright possibly racist posters Purplewood and Eastcat, group up with me.

The question isn't whether or not it was a joke, or if it was a joke, whether or not it was funny. The question is, how much oxygen do you give a single, insensitive tweet? And on what basis is that response justified? The marketplace of ideas will work itself out.

Depends if you have popular/famous people totally lost in their emotions or not.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 29, 2020, 03:24:02 PM
It is sorta interesting (in addition to obviously shitty) to watch the occasional person such as Known Worst Poster Eastcat twist themselves into knots trying to defend the tweet.

As much as i'm embarrassed by how many of the bloggers here are outing themselves as completely stupid, I would also like to go on the record for saying i'm glad they are sharing their stupid thoughts and i hope they feel safe to continue to do so. This place would be p boring if we were all just standing around in a circle knucklin off each others cranks
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 03:29:49 PM
It is sorta interesting (in addition to obviously shitty) to watch the occasional person such as Known Worst Poster Eastcat twist themselves into knots trying to defend the tweet.

As much as i'm embarrassed by how many of the bloggers here are outing themselves as completely stupid, I would also like to go on the record for saying i'm glad they are sharing their stupid thoughts and i hope they feel safe to continue to do so. This place would be p boring if we were all just standing around in a circle knucklin off each others cranks

It's @sonofdaxjones
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 29, 2020, 03:33:09 PM
It is sorta interesting (in addition to obviously shitty) to watch the occasional person such as Known Worst Poster Eastcat twist themselves into knots trying to defend the tweet.

As much as i'm embarrassed by how many of the bloggers here are outing themselves as completely stupid, I would also like to go on the record for saying i'm glad they are sharing their stupid thoughts and i hope they feel safe to continue to do so. This place would be p boring if we were all just standing around in a circle knucklin off each others cranks

It's @sonofdaxjones

See also @dugoutdickstone and @Trim

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 03:38:57 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.

No those terms don't offend me but that's not the point and you know it.  He used it in a derogatory manner which therefore should be inexcusable.  Why should the double standard even be allowed to exist?  How do I know he doesn't or won't use offense words for other ethnicity?

And I'm glad that it doesn't offend you as a white man.  Maybe we should change your name to cracktastophe?  Are you the board monitor on what terms are offensive for each nationality? 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 03:43:15 PM
Alright possibly racist posters Purplewood and Eastcat, group up with me.

The question isn't whether or not it was a joke, or if it was a joke, whether or not it was funny. The question is, how much oxygen do you give a single, insensitive tweet? And on what basis is that response justified? The marketplace of ideas will work itself out.

Not sure why you're grouping me in here.  I said the guy was an idiot.  I think something should be done but not sure it will easy to do and am also afraid that if it doesn't get handled properly that you'll have someone else doing the same thing.  Please show me where I ever came close to saying it was okay or acceptable or just a joke. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 29, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Too bad okcat doesn't post anymore

Title: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 29, 2020, 03:52:13 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.

No those terms don't offend me but that's not the point and you know it.  He used it in a derogatory manner which therefore should be inexcusable.  Why should the double standard even be allowed to exist?  How do I know he doesn't or won't use offense words for other ethnicity?

And I'm glad that it doesn't offend you as a white man.  Maybe we should change your name to cracktastophe ?  Are you the board monitor on what terms are offensive for each nationality?

Omg - MODS

And my point is it’s not a double standard. You should expect that members of historically oppressed groups (and I’m not just talking about skin color) are going to be offended by using derogatory terms because the odds are they’ve personally experienced pain associated with similar derogatory behavior. I’d steer clear from making an offhand joke about flying airplanes into buildings in NYC (really anywhere) for the same reason.

I suspected you would not be offended by cracker or honkey because there is no pain or oppression related to them. In fact the only time I’ve seen people “upset” about them is almost exactly like the “all lives matter” crowd who use it to divert the conversation away from someone else’s legitimate concerns.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 29, 2020, 03:59:14 PM
I can't even imagine a world where MIR hasn't called me cracker or honky plenty of times over the past decade.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
Honky is hilarious


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Dugout DickStone on June 29, 2020, 04:13:50 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.

No those terms don't offend me but that's not the point and you know it.  He used it in a derogatory manner which therefore should be inexcusable.  Why should the double standard even be allowed to exist?  How do I know he doesn't or won't use offense words for other ethnicity?

And I'm glad that it doesn't offend you as a white man.  Maybe we should change your name to cracktastophe?  Are you the board monitor on what terms are offensive for each nationality?

I like the idea of some name changes
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 04:13:56 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.

No those terms don't offend me but that's not the point and you know it.  He used it in a derogatory manner which therefore should be inexcusable.  Why should the double standard even be allowed to exist?  How do I know he doesn't or won't use offense words for other ethnicity?

And I'm glad that it doesn't offend you as a white man.  Maybe we should change your name to cracktastophe ?  Are you the board monitor on what terms are offensive for each nationality?

Omg - MODS

And my point is it’s not a double standard. You should expect that members of historically oppressed groups (and I’m not just talking about skin color) are going to be offended by using derogatory terms because the odds are they’ve personally experienced pain associated with similar derogatory behavior. I’d steer clear from making an offhand joke about flying airplanes into buildings in NYC (really anywhere) for the same reason.

I suspected you would not be offended by cracker or honkey because there is no pain or oppression related to them. In fact the only time I’ve seen people “upset” about them is almost exactly like the “all lives matter” crowd who use it to divert the conversation away from someone else’s legitimate concerns.

I agree with all of that but that doesn't mean people should get the green light to use derogatory terms especially when discussing a topic like this.  I think that's part of the reason we are where we are because people thought it was acceptable and if even if they didn't they just shrugged their shoulders because they thought it was funny.

Also, you're welcome on your new name. :gocho: (ftp://:gocho:)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
Mods please change the thread title to athletes forcing racists to out themselves

And please don't forget to add, "and let MIR continue to be a bigot but everyone will just turn their heads"... 

I assume that’s because most people have not been offended by what MIR has said. Is there something specific you’re thinking of?

I'm sure when he uses the term honky or cracker he is just trying to get some good ole yucks from you guys so never mind..  :rolleyes: (ftp://:rolleyes:)
Do those terms offend you? I’m asking because as a white man they really don’t offend me and I’m genuinely curious if you find them offensive or if you are just upset that whites don’t have slurs associated with decades of hate and oppression that they can be offended by.

No those terms don't offend me but that's not the point and you know it.  He used it in a derogatory manner which therefore should be inexcusable.  Why should the double standard even be allowed to exist?  How do I know he doesn't or won't use offense words for other ethnicity?

And I'm glad that it doesn't offend you as a white man.  Maybe we should change your name to cracktastophe?  Are you the board monitor on what terms are offensive for each nationality?

I like the idea of some name changes

Noooooooooo!!!    :shakesfist: :runaway: :shakesfist: (ftp://:shakesfist: :runaway: :shakesfist:)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Dugout DickStone on June 29, 2020, 04:15:31 PM
Honky is hilarious


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is great. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 29, 2020, 04:22:44 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Pete on June 29, 2020, 04:26:53 PM
https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66060


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good job, general. 
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
It's more lip service, when BLM tires of lip service things will escalate.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 04:40:56 PM
It's more lip service, when BLM tires of lip service things will escalate.

What is your prediction of how they will escalate?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 04:49:56 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: cfbandyman on June 29, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
Honky is hilarious


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is great.

I lol every time I hear it, it's a very funny word.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 05:04:25 PM
I would say the events of the last few weeks are an escalation of the collective citizenship being tired of lip service. I know it's inconvenient for you, but Americans views on this (as a whole) have shifted dramatically.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 05:08:43 PM
It's pretty telling that you view racial equality as a threat to yourself though  :th_twocents:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 05:12:24 PM
I would say the events of the last few weeks are an escalation of the collective citizenship being tired of lip service. I know it's inconvenient for you, but Americans views on this (as a whole) have shifted dramatically.

I've got so much privilege it doesn't really affect me, but I am intrigued by it.  From my view the lip service escalated after the recent cop murder and subsequent outrage.  Supporters of BLM believe that the movement has momentum and are expecting tangible changes.  I don't think they will get anything but window dressing and be disappointed.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
And then what?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 05:19:36 PM
more than riots and fires  :dunno:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
or maybe nuthin' i dont know
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: star seed 7 on June 29, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
So your claim is that "BLM will escalate", but you won't actually say what you think that escalation would be.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 29, 2020, 05:32:26 PM
So your claim is that "BLM will escalate", but you won't actually say what you think that escalation would be.

Q probably called it years ago. stay tuned...
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Do you think I run BLM or something?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 05:38:28 PM
I'm just basing my prediction on previous experience observing the reaction of people discovering that they have been duped.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 05:50:34 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting cRusty.

Few of those things really seem to be their mission statement now, recently the co-founder of BLM openly stated that their exclusive goal is to remove the signer of the  First Step Criminal Reform Act from office.   The same administration that's working on second chance for success initiatives (particularly for hiring into Federal jobs) pell grants for people in prison to continue their education etc. etc. etc.

Oh well, politics, man.











they're also anti-family

It's on their website, not mine.

Quote
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

Monsters smdh

Oh the conversation I had about this one on kso, lol. Some of these people actually see us as something other than human.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 05:53:15 PM
Love thy neighbor is just a little too radical for this freedom lover

The concept is actually really difficult for some of them, maybe the exact wording on the website is confusing. One dude actually thought, well he tried to make the argument that BLM advocates for the removal of fathers.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
Too bad okcat doesn't post anymore

He's a shithead but he wouldn't be defending jaden or anything it stands for
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 06:11:29 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?

Yep, although you must know that power and equality aren't the same. This is how you fall into the "there was a black president" trap.

For the record I agree with you that myers statement is just a bunch of meaningless words, without action I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them, from K-State.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 06:13:38 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?

Yep, although you must know that power and equality aren't the same. This is how you fall into the "there was a black president" trap.

For the record I agree with you that myers statement is just a bunch of meaningless words, without action I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them, from K-State.
Yeah it's a damned shame. I got my diploma today and with all that has went on the last two weeks I don't even wanna show it off. I'm ashamed especially since the school hasn't made headway. You said it best earlier it is worth getting sued over. And I really hope the school see's that.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 06:50:31 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.

I can use these words -  Is that like black privilege or something

I have a decade long track record with these people -  Did you just say you are not racist because you have white friends?

don't bother responding, its not important, you just crack me up.

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 29, 2020, 07:05:21 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?

Yep, although you must know that power and equality aren't the same. This is how you fall into the "there was a black president" trap.

For the record I agree with you that myers statement is just a bunch of meaningless words, without action I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them, from K-State.
Curious about the last part... do you think there are other (especially midwestern) state schools doing measurably better than K-State in this respect? If so what are they doing?  (I realize this may be entirely beside the point for what you do with your money and progeny.)

This specific instance seems too tied to Jaden to blame the university for allowing it to start, response obviously TBD. The #BlackAtKState from a few weeks back is also hard for me to say whether it is just something that caught on twitter and could have happened at any number of schools, or if there was something about KState in particular.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 08:25:08 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.

This is classic.  It's okay for you to do it when somebody knows you right?  But when you don't know someone you can freely call them a racist (not even talking about the tweet)!!   :curse: :curse: (ftp://:curse: :curse:). What a double standard POS you are.  If I did the same with my pals you wouldn't hesitate to call me privileged or a racist, which you pretty much have when you don't know me but it's ok for you.  What a douche.  Why don't you say you have many white friends too and they don't care because they know you... oh, you just did that.  lol.  You gave bookie an incredibly hard time about him saying the same damn thing.  And the name calling is also a great touch you possess.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 29, 2020, 08:29:16 PM
The other part is that literally no one is offended by honky or cracker
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?

Yep, although you must know that power and equality aren't the same. This is how you fall into the "there was a black president" trap.

For the record I agree with you that myers statement is just a bunch of meaningless words, without action I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them, from K-State.
Curious about the last part... do you think there are other (especially midwestern) state schools doing measurably better than K-State in this respect? If so what are they doing?  (I realize this may be entirely beside the point for what you do with your money and progeny.)

This specific instance seems too tied to Jaden to blame the university for allowing it to start, response obviously TBD. The #BlackAtKState from a few weeks back is also hard for me to say whether it is just something that caught on twitter and could have happened at any number of schools, or if there was something about KState in particular.

Good question, and I don't know how other universities would handle it, fortunately they haven't had the chance, K-State has and it appears as if Myers is just going to hem and haw and hope that this goes away. I know this, Wefald wouldn't do this, people might not like what he would have done, but he would have done something other than a 1000 word press release that didn't do much more than tout where he's been. It's unfortunate that the jaden fish was thrown in their laps, but that's how crisis management works.

I agree with #blackatkstate, almost all of those stories had nothing to do with K-State as an institution. That was brought to my my attention a week after otherwise I would have tried to shift the focus on the university response to things that happened under their watch, other than the acts themselves.

I am getting the feeling that the leadership at the school thinks that initiatives aimed at recruiting minority students and using supportive words stand in the place of actual strong, put your foot down advocacy. I also will relate this to sexual harassment at schools. Back in the day before title IX offices, schools would absolutely use strong language disavowing all forms of harassment, but they really did nothing to protect women, not until the federal government made them do so.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 8manpick on June 29, 2020, 08:44:15 PM
Thanks. My hope is that today’s statement was truly a stall for time to navigate admittedly complex ancillary issues, legal and otherwise.  If this is the end of it, that will be disappointing.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 29, 2020, 08:48:38 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.

This is classic.  It's okay for you to do it when somebody knows you right?  But when you don't know someone you can freely call them a racist (not even talking about the tweet)!!   :curse: :curse: (ftp://:curse: :curse:). What a double standard POS you are.  If I did the same with my pals you wouldn't hesitate to call me privileged or a racist, which you pretty much have when you don't know me but it's ok for you.  What a douche.  Why don't you say you have many white friends too and they don't care because they know you... oh, you just did that.  lol.  You gave bookie an incredibly hard time about him saying the same damn thing.  And the name calling is also a great touch you possess.

Yes, you dumb sonofabitch, I can use language on a message board and with my friends than I couldn't in other settings. No rough ridin' crap, like what in the living hell are you even crying about here? It's just like you using words like spook, coon, wetback, chink, etc. when you're hanging out with Billy over the smoker while having a busch light.

You're also still equating the words cracker and honkey with other language that has historically been used to harm people of color. Honkey and cracker were made popular by late 20th century comedians. Why don't you do a Google image search of the words cracker and honkey and look at the results, then Google image those words I used in my first paragraph, you tell me the difference in those terms.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: IPA4Me on June 29, 2020, 08:53:37 PM
Hello fellow honkies

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: gatoveintisiete on June 29, 2020, 08:58:29 PM
honkey please....
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
Hello fellow honkies

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King honey here. See it's not offensive


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 09:01:08 PM
The other part is that literally no one is offended by honky or cracker

Awesome!  Another person who can judge what is and isn't acceptable when it comes to racists names and that no one is offended by them!   :excited: (ftp://:excited:)Very privileged view if I say so myself.  I can assure you that someone is offended by those terms but they're probably just racist.  Acceptable!!  My neighbor who is a kraut will be happy to hear this!!
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: steve dave on June 29, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Could all of you honkeys take this trash to the pit? TY


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: kashi1965 on June 29, 2020, 09:09:39 PM
first do you agree that as a whole white America has adopted a strategy of giving lip service to BLM but has no intention of relinquishing any power or advantages that they may have to BLM or african americans ?

Yep, although you must know that power and equality aren't the same. This is how you fall into the "there was a black president" trap.

For the record I agree with you that myers statement is just a bunch of meaningless words, without action I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them, from K-State.
Curious about the last part... do you think there are other (especially midwestern) state schools doing measurably better than K-State in this respect? If so what are they doing?  (I realize this may be entirely beside the point for what you do with your money and progeny.)

This specific instance seems too tied to Jaden to blame the university for allowing it to start, response obviously TBD. The #BlackAtKState from a few weeks back is also hard for me to say whether it is just something that caught on twitter and could have happened at any number of schools, or if there was something about KState in particular.

Good question, and I don't know how other universities would handle it, fortunately they haven't had the chance, K-State has and it appears as if Myers is just going to hem and haw and hope that this goes away. I know this, Wefald wouldn't do this, people might not like what he would have done, but he would have done something other than a 1000 word press release that didn't do much more than tout where he's been. It's unfortunate that the jaden fish was thrown in their laps, but that's how crisis management works.

I agree with #blackatkstate, almost all of those stories had nothing to do with K-State as an institution. That was brought to my my attention a week after otherwise I would have tried to shift the focus on the university response to things that happened under their watch, other than the acts themselves.

I am getting the feeling that the leadership at the school thinks that initiatives aimed at recruiting minority students and using supportive words stand in the place of actual strong, put your foot down advocacy. I also will relate this to sexual harassment at schools. Back in the day before title IX offices, schools would absolutely use strong language disavowing all forms of harassment, but they really did nothing to protect women, not until the federal government made them do so.
what specific action are people accusing the president of not taking? what actions has ksu not done that other schools have done? is ksu at fault for a boys comment on twitter? i think its been what 2 days and we're already criticizing the president for not having solved the problem of kids being offensive on social media? please highlight for me because i am dumb and uneducated what the things other colleges have done to combat a handful of racist punks that KSU has refused to institute. thanks so much
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 09:14:33 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.

This is classic.  It's okay for you to do it when somebody knows you right?  But when you don't know someone you can freely call them a racist (not even talking about the tweet)!!   :curse: :curse: (ftp://:curse: :curse:). What a double standard POS you are.  If I did the same with my pals you wouldn't hesitate to call me privileged or a racist, which you pretty much have when you don't know me but it's ok for you.  What a douche.  Why don't you say you have many white friends too and they don't care because they know you... oh, you just did that.  lol.  You gave bookie an incredibly hard time about him saying the same damn thing.  And the name calling is also a great touch you possess.

Yes, you dumb sonofabitch, I can use language on a message board and with my friends than I couldn't in other settings. No rough ridin' crap, like what in the living hell are you even crying about here? It's just like you using words like spook, coon, wetback, chink, etc. when you're hanging out with Billy over the smoker while having a busch light.

You're also still equating the words cracker and honkey with other language that has historically been used to harm people of color. Honkey and cracker were made popular by late 20th century comedians. Why don't you do a Google image search of the words cracker and honkey and look at the results, then Google image those words I used in my first paragraph, you tell me the difference in those terms.

Honkey and cracker are no where close to other derogatory words and I agree with that but you used them as such.  It's a double standard but apparently being a bigot doesn't apply to you so forgive me.   You love all races and never have used the term chink or wetback right?  I'm pretty sure I'm not crying either dipshit.  I'm making a point which is pretty much over your head obviously.  Your rules apply to just you.  Got it.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 29, 2020, 09:16:25 PM
Could all of you honkeys take this trash to the pit? TY


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Sorry!  This thread should be merged?   :whistle1: (ftp://:whistle1:)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 09:19:32 PM
I think Myers should have been doing something about this clown back when the KC Star first profiled him in February. I don't know what, exactly, but he might have prevented what he's dealing with now.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Trim on June 29, 2020, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: GregKSU1027 link=topic=42134.msg1991116#msg1991116 date=1593482350King honey here.[/quote

It’s Rev Honkey, dummy.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 29, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
A lot of people in the real world today thought the ksu twitter guys joke was funny  :frown:

The point is, I can use these words because I have over a decades long track record of these people knowing I'm not a racist, you ignorant dumb eff. The line between a tasteless joke and racism is racism. If trim put that "joke".on twitter, people wouldn't are the rest of his tweets and say "yep this falls right in line with how he thinks." He also would have apologized and been embarrassed for making such a gross miscalculation.

Jaden wasn't joking and literally everyone in the world with reading capabilities knows that. I have no problem calling dumbfuck racists like eastcat dumbfuck racists for such a lame and obviously insincere defense.  People apologize for bad jokes, you can't apologize for expressing what's heartfelt.

This is classic.  It's okay for you to do it when somebody knows you right?  But when you don't know someone you can freely call them a racist (not even talking about the tweet)!!   :curse: :curse: (ftp://:curse: :curse:). What a double standard POS you are.  If I did the same with my pals you wouldn't hesitate to call me privileged or a racist, which you pretty much have when you don't know me but it's ok for you.  What a douche.  Why don't you say you have many white friends too and they don't care because they know you... oh, you just did that.  lol.  You gave bookie an incredibly hard time about him saying the same damn thing.  And the name calling is also a great touch you possess.

Yes, you dumb sonofabitch, I can use language on a message board and with my friends than I couldn't in other settings. No rough ridin' crap, like what in the living hell are you even crying about here? It's just like you using words like spook, coon, wetback, chink, etc. when you're hanging out with Billy over the smoker while having a busch light.

You're also still equating the words cracker and honkey with other language that has historically been used to harm people of color. Honkey and cracker were made popular by late 20th century comedians. Why don't you do a Google image search of the words cracker and honkey and look at the results, then Google image those words I used in my first paragraph, you tell me the difference in those terms.

Honkey and cracker are no where close to other derogatory words and I agree with that but you used them as such.  It's a double standard but apparently being a bigot doesn't apply to you so forgive me.   You love all races and never have used the term chink or wetback right?  I'm pretty sure I'm not crying either dipshit.  I'm making a point which is pretty much over your head obviously.  Your rules apply to just you.  Got it.
Please what are the other ones? I'm genuinely interested.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Katpappy on June 29, 2020, 10:32:45 PM
guys I infiltrated the BLM cell and came back with some intel. sounds fishy

Quote
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

You also don't have to read far to find anti-family and Marxist ideas.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Welp, it's about time they start to catch up with that white clang; you know it's the pillow case boys KKK.  :fatty:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: pissclams on June 29, 2020, 11:29:36 PM
I always thought that it was spelled “honky”

anyone remember when elson floyd’s wife described white women as as “pink toes” in jail house discussions w ricky clemons?  holy crap what a wild time that was.  hadn’t heard that term before then and haven’t since
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 29, 2020, 11:52:21 PM


I always thought that it was spelled “honky”

anyone remember when elson floyd’s wife described white women as as “pink toes” in jail house discussions w ricky clemons?  holy crap what a wild time that was.  hadn’t heard that term before then and haven’t since

Man the Ricky Clemons saga was something else. I'd read a book about it.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: MakeItRain on June 30, 2020, 01:12:01 AM


I always thought that it was spelled “honky”

anyone remember when elson floyd’s wife described white women as as “pink toes” in jail house discussions w ricky clemons?  holy crap what a wild time that was.  hadn’t heard that term before then and haven’t since

Man the Ricky Clemons saga was something else. I'd read a book about it.

Can't believe there wasn't a documentary about Mizzou under Quinn Snyder
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: PurpleOil on June 30, 2020, 06:56:36 AM
... I'm continuing to hold every dime and child, and I have an army of them...

An army of dimes, or children? I only ask because if it's an army of children, then someone's gotta go back and get a shitload of dimes. The Gov. William J. Le Petomane Thruway requires exact change.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: PurpleOil on June 30, 2020, 07:01:58 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on June 30, 2020, 07:48:57 AM
I was new at Eudora in 8th grade and a kid called me a "stupid cracker" on the basketball court and it rocked my world for a solid 30 minutes.  :cry:
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 30, 2020, 08:43:38 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 30, 2020, 09:21:33 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on June 30, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?

They started with "make it a university policy that racism isn't ok" and that is where they still are.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: michigancat on June 30, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
What they are asking for is literally in the first post of this thread.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 10:21:01 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
What they are asking for is literally in the first post of this thread.
To save everyone from shuffling back through:

Quote
Put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.

Portions of the code of conduct that touch on this issue are the following:

Quote
- Disruption or obstruction of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary proceedings, or other University-sponsored activities.

- Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.

- Telephone or Internet harassment, which shall include: (KSA 21-6206)
   -- Making calls containing or making or transmitting any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text which is lewd or obscene remarks.
   -- Making or transmitting calls, whether or not conversation ensues, or any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text with intent to substantially interfere with another person’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security. Transmission of comments, requests, suggestions, proposal, images, or texts may include any transmission utilizing electronic means, including but not limited to sending text, picture, video, or audio messages over social media websites, social media applications, instant messenger or chat services, message boards or any other electronic format.

- Participation in a campus demonstration which unreasonably disrupts the normal operations of the University included but not limited to the following:
   -- infringes on the rights of;
   -- inciting others to disrupt scheduled and/or normal;
   -- intentional obstruction which unreasonably interferes with freedom of    movement, either pedestrian or vehicular;
   -- inciting another person to breach the peace.[/li][/list]

- Intentionally interfering with the freedom of expression of others.

- Conduct that is disorderly, lewd, or obscene; breach of peace; or inciting another person to breach the peace.
https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html (https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html)
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 30, 2020, 10:22:19 AM
Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

I still think too much attention is being given to this.

The tweet that is, not racism in general.

you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
What they are asking for is literally in the first post of this thread.
To save everyone from shuffling back through:

Quote
Put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.

Portions of the code of conduct that touch on this issue are the following:

Quote
- Disruption or obstruction of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary proceedings, or other University-sponsored activities.

- Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.

- Telephone or Internet harassment, which shall include: (KSA 21-6206)
   -- Making calls containing or making or transmitting any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text which is lewd or obscene remarks.
   -- Making or transmitting calls, whether or not conversation ensues, or any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text with intent to substantially interfere with another person’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security. Transmission of comments, requests, suggestions, proposal, images, or texts may include any transmission utilizing electronic means, including but not limited to sending text, picture, video, or audio messages over social media websites, social media applications, instant messenger or chat services, message boards or any other electronic format.

- Participation in a campus demonstration which unreasonably disrupts the normal operations of the University included but not limited to the following:
   -- infringes on the rights of;
   -- inciting others to disrupt scheduled and/or normal;
   -- intentional obstruction which unreasonably interferes with freedom of    movement, either pedestrian or vehicular;
   -- inciting another person to breach the peace.[/li][/list]

- Intentionally interfering with the freedom of expression of others.

- Conduct that is disorderly, lewd, or obscene; breach of peace; or inciting another person to breach the peace.
https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html (https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html)
I’d say breach of peace is pretty straightforward


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 10:25:25 AM

I’d say breach of peace is pretty straightforward

Sure.  That's a vague enough term that could theoretically cover "disrespectful" actions.  The problem wouldn't be the policy, the problem would be applying it in a way that would withstand constitutional scrutiny in the event a punished student sues -- the importance of which hinges on whether the university cares about losing a hypothetical constitutional claim brought by a student.

I actually think the more applicable rule would be:
Quote
- Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.
That's pretty close to what the athletes are advocating for.  I doubt that that point would cover the tweet at issue ("directed at" being the most operative phrase), but it's at least close to what the athletes are calling for.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: catastrophe on June 30, 2020, 10:42:05 AM
Yeah, except they’re looking for validation that racism is a special category worth calling out. I’m honestly surprised the provisions you highlighted don’t already call out protected groups.
Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: GregKSU1027 on June 30, 2020, 10:43:03 AM
Yeah, except they’re looking for validation that racism is a special category worth calling out. I’m honestly surprised the provisions you highlighted don’t already call out protected groups.
Just shows how old these rules are.


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Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
Post by: Spracne on June 30, 2020, 10:58:59 AM
    Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

    Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

    I still think too much attention is being given to this.

    The tweet that is, not racism in general.

    you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

    It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

    I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
    What they are asking for is literally in the first post of this thread.
    To save everyone from shuffling back through:

    Quote
    Put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.

    Portions of the code of conduct that touch on this issue are the following:

    Quote
    - Disruption or obstruction of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary proceedings, or other University-sponsored activities.

    - Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.

    - Telephone or Internet harassment, which shall include: (KSA 21-6206)
       -- Making calls containing or making or transmitting any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text which is lewd or obscene remarks.
       -- Making or transmitting calls, whether or not conversation ensues, or any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text with intent to substantially interfere with another person’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security. Transmission of comments, requests, suggestions, proposal, images, or texts may include any transmission utilizing electronic means, including but not limited to sending text, picture, video, or audio messages over social media websites, social media applications, instant messenger or chat services, message boards or any other electronic format.

    - Participation in a campus demonstration which unreasonably disrupts the normal operations of the University included but not limited to the following:
       -- infringes on the rights of;
       -- inciting others to disrupt scheduled and/or normal;
       -- intentional obstruction which unreasonably interferes with freedom of    movement, either pedestrian or vehicular;
       -- inciting another person to breach the peace.[/li][/list]

    - Intentionally interfering with the freedom of expression of others.

    - Conduct that is disorderly, lewd, or obscene; breach of peace; or inciting another person to breach the peace.
    https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html (https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html)
    I’d say breach of peace is pretty straightforward


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
    Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
    Post by: Dugout DickStone on June 30, 2020, 11:01:35 AM
      Cross post; Have you guys been over to Wildcat unfiltered or K-State Family. What a bunch of racists

      Some of them, probably. I think others are making valid points. I'll probably butcher this quote, but the guy who said that more would feel empowered if this guy gets kicked out, sues, and wins. I don't want any of the money I give to K-State going to fight racist trolls, or worse, being paid to them because they've won a lawsuit against the university.

      I still think too much attention is being given to this.

      The tweet that is, not racism in general.

      you should tell that guy that the players' most recent statement they all posted isn't asking for the kid to be expelled.

      It's amazing how many definitely not racist adults have been tsk-tsking the athletes for not thinking this through while casting judgement and making assumptions without actually taking the time to learn what the players are asking for.

      I'm honestly dont know what they want at this point. They started out with "expel him, or else" and now are on "everyone needs to be nice to us, or else". Is this accurate or what exactly do they want at this point?
      What they are asking for is literally in the first post of this thread.
      To save everyone from shuffling back through:

      Quote
      Put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions toward a student or groups of students.

      Portions of the code of conduct that touch on this issue are the following:

      Quote
      - Disruption or obstruction of teaching, research, administration, disciplinary proceedings, or other University-sponsored activities.

      - Conduct directed towards another person(s) that is intended to and does substantially interfere with another’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security.

      - Telephone or Internet harassment, which shall include: (KSA 21-6206)
         -- Making calls containing or making or transmitting any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text which is lewd or obscene remarks.
         -- Making or transmitting calls, whether or not conversation ensues, or any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image or text with intent to substantially interfere with another person’s educational or employment opportunity, peaceful enjoyment of residence, or physical security. Transmission of comments, requests, suggestions, proposal, images, or texts may include any transmission utilizing electronic means, including but not limited to sending text, picture, video, or audio messages over social media websites, social media applications, instant messenger or chat services, message boards or any other electronic format.

      - Participation in a campus demonstration which unreasonably disrupts the normal operations of the University included but not limited to the following:
         -- infringes on the rights of;
         -- inciting others to disrupt scheduled and/or normal;
         -- intentional obstruction which unreasonably interferes with freedom of    movement, either pedestrian or vehicular;
         -- inciting another person to breach the peace.[/li][/list]

      - Intentionally interfering with the freedom of expression of others.

      - Conduct that is disorderly, lewd, or obscene; breach of peace; or inciting another person to breach the peace.
      https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html (https://www.k-state.edu/sga/judicial/student-code-of-conduct.html)
      I’d say breach of peace is pretty straightforward


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.

      some farmer getting violent when he doesn't get handouts.  pretty typical
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 11:04:43 AM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on June 30, 2020, 11:28:05 AM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on June 30, 2020, 11:32:20 AM
      Remember how bothered gE posters get when they'd see the "racist piece of crap" tag in their profile here?

      KSU as a university can't brand a student that, but the community can.  Long before the tweet, EMAW's and MHK'rs should've been pointing the kid out everywhere he goes and announcing there goes the racist piece of crap.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: eastcat on June 30, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
      Remember how bothered gE posters get when they'd see the "racist piece of crap" tag in their profile here?

      KSU as a university can't brand a student that, but the community can.  Long before the tweet, EMAW's and MHK'rs should've been pointing the kid out everywhere he goes and announcing there goes the racist piece of crap.

      What? How immature of behavior is that?

      This event with GF was originally about police brutality. That was a valid conclusion and concern. It has been hijacked into a society engineering wealth redistribution plan like Zimbabwe.

      All dissent bullied and shouted down in the name of racism.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 30, 2020, 11:37:46 AM
      Once again, plenty of ammo to get rid of the kid.   Still extremely pleased some of you don't run K-State.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on June 30, 2020, 11:48:02 AM
      this might be another spracne question but if one decides to become a student at kansas state university and as a condition of enrollment you agree - either in writing or implied by your attendance - that you will abide by the ksu honor code...isn't that an instance of the student knowingly and willfully forfeiting some of their constitutional rights in order to participate? Like yes you can make your "this is unconstitutional" argument all you want but if if you agree to abide by the honor code then you just agreed to an additional set of rules/restrictions.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on June 30, 2020, 11:49:07 AM
      Remember how bothered gE posters get when they'd see the "racist piece of crap" tag in their profile here?

      KSU as a university can't brand a student that, but the community can.  Long before the tweet, EMAW's and MHK'rs should've been pointing the kid out everywhere he goes and announcing there goes the racist piece of crap.

      What? How immature of behavior is that?

      This event with GF was originally about police brutality. That was a valid conclusion and concern. It has been hijacked into a society engineering wealth redistribution plan like Zimbabwe.

      All dissent bullied and shouted down in the name of racism.

      Mods, add to group.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ksuchris2000 on June 30, 2020, 11:58:31 AM
      Once again, plenty of ammo to get rid of the kid.   Still extremely pleased some of you don't run K-State.

      There's no ammo that will stand legal scrutiny. If this kid gets kicked out and has the wherewithal to come back and sue the university, he'll very likely win.

      There have been a few students booted from public universities (OU for one) and the students have not come back at the university with lawsuits, but expelling students for protected speech is a dog that won't hunt for long. The ACLU has historically gone after institutions who punishment students for exercising free speech, but has so far stayed out of the 'racist' protected speech issues.

      ACLU Blurb on topic:

      Quote
      CAN I BE PUNISHED FOR EXERCISING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH?
      Students retain their right to free speech in the public school setting, but that doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want anytime you want. For example, you can be disciplined for violating a bullying policy that bars students from threatening or repeatedly harassing other students, even if it’s “just words.” On the other hand, a bullying policy that punishes you for causing another student “emotional harm,” a very vague and open-ended standard, probably violates your free speech rights.

      You are generally free to express your political views on buttons and T-shirts. In that vein, a court upheld the right of students to wear breast cancer awareness bracelets that said “I <3 boobies”; on the other hand, the U.S. Supreme Court approved the discipline of a student who gave an off-color school auditorium speech. In short, many of these issues are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and may not have simple answers.

      Schools are much more limited in trying to discipline you for comments you make outside the school setting, such as on Facebook or other social media, unless they can demonstrate that it caused disruption in school. If you think your free speech rights were violated at school because you were punished for something you said, then you should contact the ACLU or an attorney.




      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on June 30, 2020, 12:09:22 PM
      this might be another spracne question but if one decides to become a student at kansas state university and as a condition of enrollment you agree - either in writing or implied by your attendance - that you will abide by the ksu honor code...isn't that an instance of the student knowingly and willfully forfeiting some of their constitutional rights in order to participate? Like yes you can make your "this is unconstitutional" argument all you want but if if you agree to abide by the honor code then you just agreed to an additional set of rules/restrictions.
      Did you read my airtight plan of raising tuition $200k and making an unlimited number of scholarships available for students who aren’t a racist POS?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on June 30, 2020, 12:12:45 PM
      this might be another spracne question but if one decides to become a student at kansas state university and as a condition of enrollment you agree - either in writing or implied by your attendance - that you will abide by the ksu honor code...isn't that an instance of the student knowingly and willfully forfeiting some of their constitutional rights in order to participate? Like yes you can make your "this is unconstitutional" argument all you want but if if you agree to abide by the honor code then you just agreed to an additional set of rules/restrictions.

      I'll be honest, I don't know the precise contours of the answer to your question, but I do know that contracts that purport to waive constitutional rights are difficult to enforce, particularly where there is uneven bargaining power and/or it is a contract of adhesion rather than a contract freely negotiated at arms-length. The fact that, in this instance, it is essentially the state asking you to waive your constitutional rights via a contract of adhesion, I would think that would garner additional skepticism by a court.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on June 30, 2020, 12:15:44 PM
      are there any government services that can be denied to racists? I was thinking maybe small business loans or grants might not be given to businesses that do something like exclusively sell swastika stickers.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 12:17:06 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 30, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
      Once again, plenty of ammo to get rid of the kid.   Still extremely pleased some of you don't run K-State.

      There's no ammo that will stand legal scrutiny. If this kid gets kicked out and has the wherewithal to come back and sue the university, he'll very likely win.

      There have been a few students booted from public universities (OU for one) and the students have not come back at the university with lawsuits, but expelling students for protected speech is a dog that won't hunt for long. The ACLU has historically gone after institutions who punishment students for exercising free speech, but has so far stayed out of the 'racist' protected speech issues.

      ACLU Blurb on topic:

      Quote
      CAN I BE PUNISHED FOR EXERCISING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH?
      Students retain their right to free speech in the public school setting, but that doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want anytime you want. For example, you can be disciplined for violating a bullying policy that bars students from threatening or repeatedly harassing other students, even if it’s “just words.” On the other hand, a bullying policy that punishes you for causing another student “emotional harm,” a very vague and open-ended standard, probably violates your free speech rights.

      You are generally free to express your political views on buttons and T-shirts. In that vein, a court upheld the right of students to wear breast cancer awareness bracelets that said “I <3 boobies”; on the other hand, the U.S. Supreme Court approved the discipline of a student who gave an off-color school auditorium speech. In short, many of these issues are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and may not have simple answers.

      Schools are much more limited in trying to discipline you for comments you make outside the school setting, such as on Facebook or other social media, unless they can demonstrate that it caused disruption in school. If you think your free speech rights were violated at school because you were punished for something you said, then you should contact the ACLU or an attorney.

      You're FOS, bro.

      There's plenty of information that indicates this guy was creating an atmosphere of intimidation.

      This isn't some dork thinking he's gonna try and make a funny and gets embarrassed.    This is an individual engaged in a systemic process to spur others to intimidate people on campus.    I'm sure there's lefties engaged in the same behavior, they need to be dealt with as well. 

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on June 30, 2020, 12:42:00 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.
      well then my vote is find a reason to expel him and do it. if he gets a judge to let him back in then at least KSU has shown they did everything possible. i can't wait for the first report of him being seen on campus. i wonder if he will ever be on campus and if he is even from kansas?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on June 30, 2020, 12:45:30 PM
      Once again, plenty of ammo to get rid of the kid.   Still extremely pleased some of you don't run K-State.

      There's no ammo that will stand legal scrutiny. If this kid gets kicked out and has the wherewithal to come back and sue the university, he'll very likely win.

      There have been a few students booted from public universities (OU for one) and the students have not come back at the university with lawsuits, but expelling students for protected speech is a dog that won't hunt for long. The ACLU has historically gone after institutions who punishment students for exercising free speech, but has so far stayed out of the 'racist' protected speech issues.

      ACLU Blurb on topic:

      Quote
      CAN I BE PUNISHED FOR EXERCISING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH?
      Students retain their right to free speech in the public school setting, but that doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want anytime you want. For example, you can be disciplined for violating a bullying policy that bars students from threatening or repeatedly harassing other students, even if it’s “just words.” On the other hand, a bullying policy that punishes you for causing another student “emotional harm,” a very vague and open-ended standard, probably violates your free speech rights.

      You are generally free to express your political views on buttons and T-shirts. In that vein, a court upheld the right of students to wear breast cancer awareness bracelets that said “I <3 boobies”; on the other hand, the U.S. Supreme Court approved the discipline of a student who gave an off-color school auditorium speech. In short, many of these issues are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and may not have simple answers.

      Schools are much more limited in trying to discipline you for comments you make outside the school setting, such as on Facebook or other social media, unless they can demonstrate that it caused disruption in school. If you think your free speech rights were violated at school because you were punished for something you said, then you should contact the ACLU or an attorney.

      You're FOS, bro.

      There's plenty of information that indicates this guy was creating an atmosphere of intimidation.

      This isn't some dork thinking he's gonna try and make a funny and gets embarrassed.    This is an individual engaged in a systemic process to spur others to intimidate people on campus.    I'm sure there's lefties engaged in the same behavior, they need to be dealt with as well.
      if this is correct i think it will be pretty easy to show a pattern of comments trying to initiate disruption. disruption of what might be the key issue for someone smarter than me but he is definitely trying his hardest to disrupt people/systems/groups/
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: memphis on June 30, 2020, 12:54:04 PM
      ?s=21

      Wow I wonder if the doxxing is real? Huh...


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      So this person will be a hero?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on June 30, 2020, 01:23:46 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.

      I now see the point you're making, and agree.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on June 30, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.
      well then my vote is find a reason to expel him and do it. if he gets a judge to let him back in then at least KSU has shown they did everything possible. i can't wait for the first report of him being seen on campus. i wonder if he will ever be on campus and if he is even from kansas?

      This little crap has already garnered a larger platform than he could have ever dreamed. Why would we want to perpetuate this and end up in court, likely to lose? Just to prove we're not racists?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on June 30, 2020, 01:30:52 PM
      This little crap has already garnered a larger platform than he could have ever dreamed. Why would we want to perpetuate this and end up in court, likely to lose? Just to prove we're not racists?

      yeah and that's a pretty good reason
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on June 30, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
      imagine KSU of all schools coming out as clearly not racist in this, the year of our lord, 2020.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: NDB on June 30, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.

      Yeah.  Just like a person can rob a bank or kill someone...

      The kid would sue, he'd win, and the University would write a check for at least seven if not eight figures.

      They'd be subject to punitive damages.  Just how big do think the damages would be so that the University would never do this again. 

      This kid has already lawyered up and is waiting for the University to do something stupid.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 03:36:58 PM
      You would be incorrect. That phrase does not refer to disrupting someone's internal peace; it refers to a state of lawlessness that is considered dangerous. For example, let's say you're repossessing someone's tractor because you loaned them money to purchase the tractor and they defaulted on the loan. When you show up, the farmer is sitting on the tractor with a shotgun. You cannot then repossess the tractor without causing a breach of the peace, so you can no longer privately repossess it.
      There's a practical element to this.  K-State can do whatever it wants.  There's very little (if anything) K-State can do to punish protected (i.e. racist) speech within the bounds of the constitution.

      If K-State needs some pretext to boot this guy (or the next guy) off campus or otherwise punish him in any meaningful way, "breach of peace" is as good (and as bad) as any, imo.

      No, K-State cannot do just whatever it wants. It's a state university. The state owns it, runs it, allots it money etc.  It is a state actor regardless of which way the political winds happen to be blowing. I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t rough ridin' apply if a school has a code of conduct. Being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

      The whole reason for the code of conduct change is so that students can be removed for similar comments in the future. This is setting up the university to be sued in multiple ways when the next racist bad person like this kid gets kicked out for similar statements/tweets/FB posts. I understand that it wasn't really a joke to him. I understand who he is and the groups he associates with. I also understand that as a grown adult, sometimes you have to just walk on by the trash.

      This little punk's comment was horribly insensitive, specifically intended to rile people up, comes at a politically hostile time, and is not worth the time it takes to read.

      Yet, here we are anyways.
      Yes, K-State can.  If K-State wants to expel him or anyone like him, they can do it in the next ten minutes.  Whether, down the line, the guy sues and K-State gets told by some judge that they have to let him back in is another (and overwhelmingly likely) story.

      I get how the first amendment and student speech works, but the practicalities of constitutional protections being enforced require more than the bare unconstitutional action.

      Yeah.  Just like a person can rob a bank or kill someone...

      The kid would sue, he'd win, and the University would write a check for at least seven if not eight figures.

      They'd be subject to punitive damages.  Just how big do think the damages would be so that the University would never do this again. 

      This kid has already lawyered up and is waiting for the University to do something stupid.
      I think punitives (or any damages beyond nominal) would be pretty unlikely.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: I_have_purplewood on June 30, 2020, 03:47:32 PM
      Remember how bothered gE posters get when they'd see the "racist piece of crap" tag in their profile here?

      KSU as a university can't brand a student that, but the community can.  Long before the tweet, EMAW's and MHK'rs should've been pointing the kid out everywhere he goes and announcing there goes the racist piece of crap.

      I haven't paid attention to what year this kid is but not sure how he thinks he's going to get a job anywhere?  He's mumped for a long time to come.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on June 30, 2020, 03:48:12 PM
      he has a future as a MAGA grifter
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on June 30, 2020, 03:48:51 PM
      Lol magas will keep him living comfortably bro
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on June 30, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
      If you have no scruples it’s actually a very easy way to make a living.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: NDB on June 30, 2020, 05:07:53 PM
      I think punitives (or any damages beyond nominal) would be pretty unlikely.

      Happens all the time.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on June 30, 2020, 11:34:36 PM
      I think punitives (or any damages beyond nominal) would be pretty unlikely.

      Happens all the time.
      Link/cite?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: NDB on July 01, 2020, 09:47:57 AM
      Google/search lexis/nexis for "first amendment retaliation".

      Obviously there are no cases exactly like this one, but the law is clear as is the possibility, if not likelihood, of damages in the millions of dollars.

      Given KState's size and the stupidity it would take for University to take any actions to remove this guy, the damages would likely be huge - as the point is to make it painful.  KState could easily manage a low seven-figure claim.

      And no, the University cannot start digging into the guys past as that would simply support the idea that they are retaliating because of the tweet.

      The good things is that the President and University counsel know this and are looking at other ways to address the situation.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 10:06:17 AM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 10:08:50 AM
      Also this was just shared amongst K-State athletics social media.


      ?s=21
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 10:16:34 AM
      Also word of the day is ombudsman.

      ombudsperson, ombud, or public advocate is an official who is charged with representing the interests of the public by investigating and addressing complaints of mal-administration or a violation of rights.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 8manpick on July 01, 2020, 11:17:34 AM
      ESPN.com used to have a monthly or quarterly piece written by the ombudsman.  That's where I learned that word.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 8manpick on July 01, 2020, 11:23:53 AM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 01, 2020, 11:33:21 AM
      ESPN.com used to have a monthly or quarterly piece written by the ombudsman.  That's where I learned that word.

      Same, I actually really enjoyed reading ombudsman pieces, cause it was obviously very frank clearly and inside view of something at ESPN from an outside person's perspective
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 01, 2020, 11:36:49 AM
      Google/search lexis/nexis for "first amendment retaliation".

      Obviously there are no cases exactly like this one, but the law is clear as is the possibility, if not likelihood, of damages in the millions of dollars.

      Given KState's size and the stupidity it would take for University to take any actions to remove this guy, the damages would likely be huge - as the point is to make it painful.  KState could easily manage a low seven-figure claim.

      And no, the University cannot start digging into the guys past as that would simply support the idea that they are retaliating because of the tweet.

      The good things is that the President and University counsel know this and are looking at other ways to address the situation.
      Fair enough.  Given the prospect of punitives I'd say they made the right move.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on July 01, 2020, 12:10:18 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      Maybe we get lucky and they get rid of the "ceremony of allegiance" and the anthem, and just focus on it being entertainment, like a play or musical at McCain Auditorium or Nichols Hall? :dunno:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ksuchris2000 on July 01, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      Maybe we get lucky and they get rid of the "ceremony of allegiance" and the anthem, and just focus on it being entertainment, like a play or musical at McCain Auditorium or Nichols Hall? :dunno:

      Get rid of the US flag too.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 01, 2020, 12:21:00 PM
      when's the last time k-state.edu was updated? good grief
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 01, 2020, 01:04:11 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      I think Kansans will be too ashamed to boo that. definitely lots of stern arm folding though, kansans just aren't an outspoken bunch when it comes to things like this.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 8manpick on July 01, 2020, 01:05:35 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      I think Kansans will be too ashamed to boo that. definitely lots of stern arm folding though, kansans just aren't an outspoken bunch when it comes to things like this.

      Yes good point
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 01, 2020, 01:10:01 PM
      (I'll acknowledge this could just be wishful thinking, but imagine booing someone saying "black lives matter")
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 01, 2020, 01:19:07 PM
      I can def hear the grumbling throughout the stadium, though. I don’t think it would last for a whole season though. Most people resistant to the phrase Black Lives Matter haven’t put much time into trying to understand it.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 01, 2020, 01:35:47 PM
      We're an ag school, fellas. There's going to be some herp a derps set in their own racist ways out there. It sucks, but at least we're making strides.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 01:37:50 PM
      We're an ag school, fellas. There's going to be some herp a derps set in their own racist ways out there. It sucks, but at least we're making strides.
      Yes and if the herp derps yell derogatory racist things you bet I’m yelling at those damned people to stfu and to leave the racist comments at home with their cousins


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 01, 2020, 01:38:52 PM
      100%
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 8manpick on July 01, 2020, 01:39:54 PM
      Yes, Greg we get it
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
      Yes, Greg we get it
      sorry tapatalk posted it like 8 times lolz
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Cire on July 01, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
      I think This is the first time in my 20 years of being a karate fan that I’m pretty happy with AD and admin response to something important important


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 01, 2020, 02:14:56 PM
      I think This is the first time in my 20 years of being a karate fan that I’m pretty happy with AD and admin response to something important important


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I am also happy with the Karate AD and Administration :Woohoo:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: SkinnyBenny on July 01, 2020, 02:31:32 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      I think Kansans will be too ashamed to boo that. definitely lots of stern arm folding though, kansans just aren't an outspoken bunch when it comes to things like this.


      There will at minimum be a few short-haired ladies in the crowd (undoubtedly named Tammy or Jan or something) who will halfheartedly yell “All Lives Matter!” Probably just loud enough to be heard in the neighboring sections.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 01, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
      There will at minimum be a few short-haired ladies in the crowd (undoubtedly named Tammy or Jan or something) who will halfheartedly yell “All Lives Matter!” Probably just loud enough to be heard in the neighboring sections.
      I imagine that would be true.  Whatever.  If they don't like K-State's messaging (and they don't have to like it) they don't have to attend games. 

      K-State's putting their neck out there a little bit by signing on to do this.  I'm sure they've considered the consequences.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 01, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
      K-State has handled this surprisingly well


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 01, 2020, 03:31:11 PM
      K-State has handled this surprisingly well


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      meh honkey, students and faculty of color is much too broad, we are talking about african americans here so lets use the specific term and quit leaving trap doors all over the place.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 01, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 01, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!
      i believe that's part of the plan. more scholarships for underprivileged communities. i'm proud of this.
      and if some people dont like a pro-diversity message at ksu public gatherings then maybe we dont them at our gatherings. i think we need people of all color and all origin to go to ksu. we will not survive with just farmers kids. i think that has already started to show itself. its past time to change our brand in order to help our future. i'll take all the farmers i can get and i'll also take anyone else. but i think farmers already feel welcome here. i'm not sure many others do.
      have you ever seen a couple african american football recruits walking around the stadium during a game? i can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be for many of them. not because of offensive comments or looks. Just how different this world looks from theirs.
      i dont think i would sign on to attend one of the historically black colleges. i understand how they might go home wondering if this is where they could feel comfortable
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on July 01, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!

      I LOVE the idea of more scholarships for non-athletes.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 01, 2020, 05:38:20 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!

      I LOVE the idea of more scholarships for non-athletes.

      maga  :cheers:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on July 01, 2020, 06:07:24 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!

      I LOVE the idea of more scholarships for non-athletes.

      maga  :cheers:

      No maga here, bro.  Just a fan of more scholarships for scholars.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ksuchris2000 on July 01, 2020, 06:41:12 PM
      Maga here. Conservatives are liberals who were mugged by reality.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 01, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
      Maga here. Conservatives are liberals who were mugged by reality.
      or the other way around. depending if your reality is self focused or outwardly focused.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 01, 2020, 07:48:32 PM
      Maga here. Conservatives are liberals who were mugged by reality.
      or the other way around. depending if your reality is self focused or outwardly focused.

        :Bullsh!t: but it's not worth sidetracking what has been a decent conversation.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 01, 2020, 07:50:53 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!
      i believe that's part of the plan. more scholarships for underprivileged communities. i'm proud of this.
      and if some people dont like a pro-diversity message at ksu public gatherings then maybe we dont them at our gatherings. i think we need people of all color and all origin to go to ksu. we will not survive with just farmers kids. i think that has already started to show itself. its past time to change our brand in order to help our future. i'll take all the farmers i can get and i'll also take anyone else. but i think farmers already feel welcome here. i'm not sure many others do.
      have you ever seen a couple african american football recruits walking around the stadium during a game? i can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be for many of them. not because of offensive comments or looks. Just how different this world looks from theirs.
      i dont think i would sign on to attend one of the historically black colleges. i understand how they might go home wondering if this is where they could feel comfortable

      You're aware that K-State has a large presence in Wichita and Kansas City, yes? It's not just a bunch of corn feds from Scott City and Smith Center.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: eastcat on July 01, 2020, 08:54:53 PM
      I can def hear the grumbling throughout the stadium, though. I don’t think it would last for a whole season though. Most people resistant to the phrase Black Lives Matter haven’t put much time into trying to understand it.

      You won't hear anything in the stadium, it will be empty.

      If you want to support the NAACP, it's legit go ahead.

      BLM advocates violence and killing cops. WOOF.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: eastcat on July 01, 2020, 08:56:20 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!

      I LOVE the idea of more scholarships for non-athletes.

      maga  :cheers:

      No maga here, bro.  Just a fan of more scholarships for scholars.

      You mean like earning them for what you know and not what you look like?
      Title: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 01, 2020, 09:43:19 PM
      Will BSFS every be full again?  Probably not.  :cry:
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: michigancat on July 01, 2020, 09:57:00 PM
      please leave KSU and never come back
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: yoga-like_abana on July 01, 2020, 09:59:14 PM
      steffy is the herpes of this board
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 01, 2020, 10:21:06 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!
      i believe that's part of the plan. more scholarships for underprivileged communities. i'm proud of this.
      and if some people dont like a pro-diversity message at ksu public gatherings then maybe we dont them at our gatherings. i think we need people of all color and all origin to go to ksu. we will not survive with just farmers kids. i think that has already started to show itself. its past time to change our brand in order to help our future. i'll take all the farmers i can get and i'll also take anyone else. but i think farmers already feel welcome here. i'm not sure many others do.
      have you ever seen a couple african american football recruits walking around the stadium during a game? i can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be for many of them. not because of offensive comments or looks. Just how different this world looks from theirs.
      i dont think i would sign on to attend one of the historically black colleges. i understand how they might go home wondering if this is where they could feel comfortable

      You're aware that K-State has a large presence in Wichita and Kansas City, yes? It's not just a bunch of corn feds from Scott City and Smith Center.
      yes i know that. i think you probably knew i was generalizing a lot when describing what most of us would agree the most common KSU student profile. i lumped them together thinking it would be ok. sorry but to an african american or any outsider of kansas a kid from wichita is almost indistinguishable from a kid from abilene. Usually. either way the school can not just rely on the kids from wichita, kc, and farmland, ks.  and whether some people like it nor not that means doing something to attract kids from outside our usual territory.
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 01, 2020, 10:23:43 PM
      I could go preach to the choir on other boards but it is so much more fun triggering the pansies here.
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 01, 2020, 10:27:57 PM
      please leave KSU and never come back

      This message board and PC crowd can’t fill BSFS.
      Maybe a couple of rows in the end zone.

      Big donors leaving. :cry:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 01, 2020, 10:28:20 PM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!

      I LOVE the idea of more scholarships for non-athletes.

      maga  :cheers:

      No maga here, bro.  Just a fan of more scholarships for scholars.

      You mean like earning them for what you know and not what you look like?
      why is earning a scholarship for what you know preferable than scholarships for other reasons? not sure why that is important actually? 25% of my fraternity had absolutely no business being in college if academic desire or talent was a prerequisite or condition to hang around. ACT score is not a precise indicator of knowledge or future career prospects. some of the dumbest shits i ever met in college are either doing incredible things or have made millions of dollars. So trying to choose the future contribution of kids by an ACT score or as you call "for what they know" has already been proven to be inaccurate. HALF the kids with your so called brains drop out of college anyway.
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 01, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
      please leave KSU and never come back

      This message board and PC crowd can’t fill BSFS.
      Maybe a couple of rows in the end zone.

      Big donors leaving. :cry:
      OK thanks for the update. We just sent in a donation tonight
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 01, 2020, 10:32:10 PM
      please leave KSU and never come back

      This message board and PC crowd can’t fill BSFS.
      Maybe a couple of rows in the end zone.

      Big donors leaving. :cry:
      OK thanks for the update. We just sent in a donation tonight

       :ROFL:
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 01, 2020, 10:57:13 PM
      Steffy, we’ll fill the stadium proud. Stop treating athletes like animals for your entertainment. If we lose you as a guest, many will be happy to fill your seat. Don’t be a d bag!
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Spracne on July 01, 2020, 11:21:08 PM
      Classic WokeyCat69
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 01, 2020, 11:21:45 PM
      Steffy, we’ll fill the stadium proud. Stop treating athletes like animals for your entertainment. If we lose you as a guest, many will be happy to fill your seat. Don’t be a d bag!

      Well said Wackycat, well said.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 01, 2020, 11:27:28 PM
      Sorry about your ACT score, brah.
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: wetwillie on July 01, 2020, 11:30:15 PM
      When keeping it real goes wrong
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 01, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
      Steffy, we’ll fill the stadium proud. Stop treating athletes like animals for your entertainment. If we lose you as a guest, many will be happy to fill your seat. Don’t be a d bag!

      Lol drama “animals”

      Stadium won’t be full.  Silent majority (especially kstaters) do not buy into the narrative that police are racist and should be defunded.  Nor do they believe that there is “institutional racism” ( whatever that means)
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 01, 2020, 11:35:14 PM
      I feel like Ted Knight right now.
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 01, 2020, 11:47:53 PM
      Steffy, we’ll fill the stadium proud. Stop treating athletes like animals for your entertainment. If we lose you as a guest, many will be happy to fill your seat. Don’t be a d bag!

      Lol drama “animals”

      Stadium won’t be full.  Silent majority (especially kstaters) do not buy into the narrative that police are racist and should be defunded.  Nor do they believe that there is “institutional racism” ( whatever that means)
      They’re naive asf then and need to wake up. Jesus, it’s not hard to show empathy for things we’ve never been accustomed to growing up with. Get over your crap and treat ppl as equals. It’s that rough ridin' simple, someone who makes me uncomfortable.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: IPA4Me on July 02, 2020, 07:26:24 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 07:38:11 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.

      It sucks, but it's Kansas at the end of the day. It certainly ratifies the action of the players and the university though.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Steffy08 on July 02, 2020, 07:40:50 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.

      So it is racist to not believe that police are racist and should be defunded??

      Also, classic media censorship move in deleting my thread calling for firing of Myers and Taylor.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DaBigTrain on July 02, 2020, 07:47:36 AM
      Get lost Steffy
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 08:20:39 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.

      So it is racist to not believe that police are racist and should be defunded??

      Also, classic media censorship move in deleting my thread calling for firing of Myers and Taylor.

      lmao, steffy you really are a huge moron huh
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 02, 2020, 08:22:42 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.

      So it is racist to not believe that police are racist and should be defunded??

      Also, classic media censorship move in deleting my thread calling for firing of Myers and Taylor.

      lmao, steffy you really are a huge moron huh

      racist pieces of crap usually are

      Also lol at thinking the stadium won't be full (at least not this year due to rona but they'll blame it on this) but then next year they'll pack it to the gills for cats TDs and it won't matter.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 02, 2020, 08:24:38 AM


      Big donors leaving. :cry:

      Name names
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 02, 2020, 08:28:41 AM
      He's got nothing.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 02, 2020, 08:33:49 AM
      Damn. Didn't realize the racism was so deep around here.

      So it is racist to not believe that police are racist and should be defunded??

      Also, classic media censorship move in deleting my thread calling for firing of Myers and Taylor.

      lmao, steffy you really are a huge moron huh

      There's nothing more amusing to me than some light worker coming here and accusing gE of deleting their posts
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ksuchris2000 on July 02, 2020, 08:37:55 AM
      Come on.

      Pretty damn naive to think that some amount of donors and alum won't adjust their donations (and attendance) negatively if many of the suggestions in this thread get through as practice.


      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 08:39:25 AM
      for sure, there are an unfortunate amount of bigots in Kansas. eff'em though.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 02, 2020, 08:51:49 AM
      Donor $'s might go down, but it's due to covid, not racist bullshit.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 02, 2020, 09:04:49 AM
      oh awesome steffy's back.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 02, 2020, 09:31:58 AM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?

      I think Kansans will be too ashamed to boo that. definitely lots of stern arm folding though, kansans just aren't an outspoken bunch when it comes to things like this.

      Under normal circumstances, you would be right. We are talking about Kansans who have spent the last 4 hours throwing washers and chugging Coors Light, though.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 02, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
      Damnit, steffy’s gonna end up motivating me to give ksu money again and to go to games (if tickets ever arrive).
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: WildcatNkilt on July 02, 2020, 09:54:22 AM
      Or maybe certain donors will contribute more after seeing how the Athletic Department responded to the situation, as well as seeing how the team came together as one in support of each other.  Maybe some major donors aren’t racists.  Just a thought.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 02, 2020, 10:11:05 AM
      Or maybe certain donors will contribute more after seeing how the Athletic Department responded to the situation, as well as seeing how the team came together as one in support of each other.  Maybe some major donors aren’t racists.  Just a thought.
      This ^^^

      I truly believe after this entire scenario that people will start taking Gene seriously. Gene truly wants what is best for his fanbase and most importantly his student athletes.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: GregKSU1027 on July 02, 2020, 10:12:27 AM
      Also voter empowerment is awesome. I think this election year will be different thanks to voter empowerment by schools and communities with big schools like manhattan in them.6
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 10:24:39 AM
      Imagine a KSU football game without all the racist pieces of crap in attendance. Truly a purple Valhalla.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 02, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
      Also voter empowerment is awesome. I think this election year will be different thanks to voter empowerment by schools and communities with big schools like manhattan in them.6

      yeah lost in this discussion was the coaches helping players register to vote and connecting them with resources to research candidates. They seem like great people.

      https://themercury.com/k_state_sports/why-k-state-football-is-spending-friday-helping-players-register-to-vote/article_d7414ff1-f330-5fdb-bc21-c526feb3c8a2.html

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: SkinnyBenny on July 02, 2020, 10:47:20 AM
      Here I have an idea, match every scholarship you grant an african american student athlete with 5 more just like it for african american non athletes.  That would feel a little more genuine.  pffft of color my ass!
      i believe that's part of the plan. more scholarships for underprivileged communities. i'm proud of this.
      and if some people dont like a pro-diversity message at ksu public gatherings then maybe we dont them at our gatherings. i think we need people of all color and all origin to go to ksu. we will not survive with just farmers kids. i think that has already started to show itself. its past time to change our brand in order to help our future. i'll take all the farmers i can get and i'll also take anyone else. but i think farmers already feel welcome here. i'm not sure many others do.
      have you ever seen a couple african american football recruits walking around the stadium during a game? i can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be for many of them. not because of offensive comments or looks. Just how different this world looks from theirs.
      i dont think i would sign on to attend one of the historically black colleges. i understand how they might go home wondering if this is where they could feel comfortable


      @jmlynch1
      Title: Re: Boycott K-State Football/Fire Myers and Taylor
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 02, 2020, 12:36:29 PM
      please leave KSU and never come back

      This message board and PC crowd can’t fill BSFS.
      Maybe a couple of rows in the end zone.

      Big donors leaving. :cry:

      Big donors leaving their money in k-state's pockets

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 02, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
      :thumbs:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 12:57:24 PM
      Hell yeah Rosetta family


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Shoeless Joe Jackson on July 02, 2020, 01:15:24 PM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZf_jHzoZEM

      Is this Dax?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 02, 2020, 01:19:44 PM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZf_jHzoZEM

      Is this Dax?

      I feel bad for that guy. :frown:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 02, 2020, 01:23:34 PM
      Or maybe certain donors will contribute more after seeing how the Athletic Department responded to the situation, as well as seeing how the team came together as one in support of each other.  Maybe some major donors aren’t racists.  Just a thought.
      currently speaking with KSU people about making donations specifically to the diversity fund. if nothing else maybe if we can attract a broader student profile in the future then the racists will go somewhere else.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on July 02, 2020, 02:10:24 PM
      Also voter empowerment is awesome. I think this election year will be different thanks to voter empowerment by schools and communities with big schools like manhattan in them.6

      yeah lost in this discussion was the coaches helping players register to vote and connecting them with resources to research candidates. They seem like great people.

      https://themercury.com/k_state_sports/why-k-state-football-is-spending-friday-helping-players-register-to-vote/article_d7414ff1-f330-5fdb-bc21-c526feb3c8a2.html

      I was very impressed by that part too!   :ksu:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 02, 2020, 03:07:00 PM
      Quote
      cowman1970
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 02, 2020, 03:19:15 PM
      Victor and Terry just look like wonderful people that would invite you to dinner to have the heirloom chicken and dumpling recipe and sun brewed ice tea.

      That guy on YouTube looks like he just discovered meth.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 8manpick on July 02, 2020, 03:53:24 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 02, 2020, 04:36:18 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      yeah its not. maybe just keep us in the 21st century. but still behind most
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 04:59:18 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Man, would be incred


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 05:40:17 PM


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 02, 2020, 05:41:45 PM


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I don't know how this could have been handled any better
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 02, 2020, 05:59:41 PM
      Yup!
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 06:10:15 PM


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I don't know how this could have been handled any better
      We somehow have gotten our crap together. Feels good.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 02, 2020, 06:31:32 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You guys are far too unnecessarily pessimistic about the nature of people. No one will be booing anything, most people don't think negatively about black lives matter, they are just too comfortable to do anything to help solve these problems.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 02, 2020, 06:45:27 PM
      Come on.

      Pretty damn naive to think that some amount of donors and alum won't adjust their donations (and attendance) negatively if many of the suggestions in this thread get through as practice.

      Interesting that you assume everyone thinks like you do. Are you accounting for donors gained or people who will give more?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 02, 2020, 07:08:41 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You guys are far too unnecessarily pessimistic about the nature of people. No one will be booing anything, most people don't think negatively about black lives matter, they are just too comfortable to do anything to help solve these problems.
      Oh i think you might be surprised. there are a LOT of normal acting people who think black lives matter is a cover for a terrorist organization and is trying to overthrow the government and erase American history forever and adopt every far left liberal extremest idea ever conceived as well as taking down the african american community as a whole. These are college graduates. these are hard working people. these are church going people. Depending on how KSU chooses to promote BLM at games i can almost promise you they will boo depending on how it is fed to them. But i am hoping they will feel just enough uncomfortable in front of so many others that they might stay quiet and bitch on their way home
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on July 02, 2020, 07:27:11 PM


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I don't know how this could have been handled any better
      We somehow have gotten our crap together. Feels good.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Yeah, this has been really great.  go cats
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 07:59:15 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You guys are far too unnecessarily pessimistic about the nature of people. No one will be booing anything, most people don't think negatively about black lives matter, they are just too comfortable to do anything to help solve these problems.
      Oh i think you might be surprised. there are a LOT of normal acting people who think black lives matter is a cover for a terrorist organization and is trying to overthrow the government and erase American history forever and adopt every far left liberal extremest idea ever conceived as well as taking down the african american community as a whole. These are college graduates. these are hard working people. these are church going people. Depending on how KSU chooses to promote BLM at games i can almost promise you they will boo depending on how it is fed to them. But i am hoping they will feel just enough uncomfortable in front of so many others that they might stay quiet and bitch on their way home
      If those people quit going to games and donating or whatever they do It’ll be a positive. eff’em.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 08:00:54 PM
      We should take this opportunity to disassociate them like Dax got disassociated that one time. (but unlike Dax's this one isn't complete bullshit)


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      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: eastcat on July 02, 2020, 09:24:01 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?

      For who?

      I haven't seen the school do anything for Asian, Hispanic, Indian or middle eastern students. Really students at all, just bending over backwards for athletes who make a scene.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 02, 2020, 09:26:53 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?

      For who?

      I haven't seen the school do anything for Asian, Hispanic, Indian or middle eastern students. Really students at all, just bending over backwards for athletes who make a scene.


      Fatty's facebook group covered all that.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 10:29:39 PM
      surely in this, the year of our lord 2020, we can automate the message board to just auto-ban our most chud posters who only show up when an opportunity to be a bigot presents itself. what are we paying you for saul?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 02, 2020, 11:39:25 PM
      hopefully our current staff murders people like this for all of us to party over

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 02, 2020, 11:56:07 PM
      lol
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: WildcatNkilt on July 03, 2020, 07:57:54 AM
      I support the 2020 change of banning bigots on gE. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 03, 2020, 08:16:14 AM
      I support the 2020 change of banning bigots on gE.
      Disagree. Just like IRL, the best way to address people like that is to mock them incessantly until they wither away or change. Rules don't change philosophies.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 03, 2020, 08:55:09 AM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?

      For who?

      I haven't seen the school do anything for Asian, Hispanic, Indian or middle eastern students. Really students at all, just bending over backwards for athletes who make a scene.
      well i think thats because you really dont care enough to investigate. the fund is titled "inclusion and diversity". and its mission involves all races. there is also a new multicultural center being constructed. it is not limited to african american culture.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: SkinnyBenny on July 03, 2020, 09:37:38 AM
      Known worst poster eastcat just got bodybagged  :Woot:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ksuchris2000 on July 03, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
      Come on.

      Pretty damn naive to think that some amount of donors and alum won't adjust their donations (and attendance) negatively if many of the suggestions in this thread get through as practice.

      Interesting that you assume everyone thinks like you do. Are you accounting for donors gained or people who will give more?

      Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 03, 2020, 12:02:03 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You guys are far too unnecessarily pessimistic about the nature of people. No one will be booing anything, most people don't think negatively about black lives matter, they are just too comfortable to do anything to help solve these problems.
      Oh i think you might be surprised. there are a LOT of normal acting people who think black lives matter is a cover for a terrorist organization and is trying to overthrow the government and erase American history forever and adopt every far left liberal extremest idea ever conceived as well as taking down the african american community as a whole. These are college graduates. these are hard working people. these are church going people. Depending on how KSU chooses to promote BLM at games i can almost promise you they will boo depending on how it is fed to them. But i am hoping they will feel just enough uncomfortable in front of so many others that they might stay quiet and bitch on their way home
      You know, it really only makes sense in your head why KSU should be concerned about losing its appeal to racists.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 03, 2020, 12:05:23 PM
      Yes, a strong “eff’em” stance is what is needed. If you DEFINITELY aren’t a bigot but see that as a negative I’ve got some bad news for you....


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      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 03, 2020, 12:29:13 PM
      agreed, I've always been a proponent of a strong eff'em policy.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 03, 2020, 01:22:20 PM
      Sent in an email out to students and faculty this morning.
      Then shared on social media.

      Certainly a step in the right direction.


      i guess i'm concerned because i want to believe there are not as many as i now think there are. they just dont know they are racists. i've lived in TX and racism was so blatant so everyday in your face we moved back to kansas just to get away from it. Here it is more hidden i guess.

      https://www.k-state.edu/today/info/announcement/?id=66089

      Quote
      ·       Utilize home games in all sports to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

      There is going to be a really embarrassing amount of booing isn't there?
      Yes, unfortunately. K-State Sports will be the next athletic department to probably have to make some stupid confederate flag rule or something.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      You guys are far too unnecessarily pessimistic about the nature of people. No one will be booing anything, most people don't think negatively about black lives matter, they are just too comfortable to do anything to help solve these problems.
      Oh i think you might be surprised. there are a LOT of normal acting people who think black lives matter is a cover for a terrorist organization and is trying to overthrow the government and erase American history forever and adopt every far left liberal extremest idea ever conceived as well as taking down the african american community as a whole. These are college graduates. these are hard working people. these are church going people. Depending on how KSU chooses to promote BLM at games i can almost promise you they will boo depending on how it is fed to them. But i am hoping they will feel just enough uncomfortable in front of so many others that they might stay quiet and bitch on their way home
      You know, it really only makes sense in your head why KSU should be concerned about losing its appeal to racists.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Stevesie60 on July 03, 2020, 11:50:39 PM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 04, 2020, 01:01:35 AM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?

      For who?

      I haven't seen the school do anything for Asian, Hispanic, Indian or middle eastern students.

      How in the eff would you know? It's not like you've actually looked into this.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 04, 2020, 10:05:12 AM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 06, 2020, 08:47:06 AM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 06, 2020, 12:57:56 PM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.
      interesting you say this i've been thinking about that issue a little bit. my impression is some people have been using the word racist to describe others who may well be racist or may just not understand all the intentions and meanings of the other side so are really just uninformed more than they are racist. There is an amazing amount of lack of clarity and understanding even in very intelligent people about Black Lives Matter and other racial movements currently. Their misunderstanding of the goals and intentions of these race movements makes them appear racist when in reality they believe something about the movement that isn't true. so instead of jumping on people as racist it might be more friendly to discuss their specific thoughts on the ideas because there are a lot of ill informed people.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 06, 2020, 02:46:18 PM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.

      Just a heads up for you, but the opposite view of a race related view point that isn't racist is a racist one.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 06, 2020, 07:10:33 PM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.

      Just a heads up for you, but the opposite view of a race related view point that isn't racist is a racist one.

      I suppose that leaves the determination of what does or does not constitute a racist view point up to intellectuals such as yourself.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 06, 2020, 08:38:46 PM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.

      Just a heads up for you, but the opposite view of a race related view point that isn't racist is a racist one.

      I suppose that leaves the determination of what does or does not constitute a racist view point up to intellectuals such as yourself.

      It really isn't that hard, easier to identify than pornography.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 07, 2020, 02:45:41 AM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Man, would be incred


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article243962412.html
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: IPA4Me on July 07, 2020, 07:07:36 AM
      Reply to the tweet linked in the article. Cindi is a psycho.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200707/d6f7642414996a52099fef753b430d52.jpg)

      Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 07, 2020, 07:32:03 AM
      Cindi having a normal one


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      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 07, 2020, 07:49:28 AM
      Can you imagine having the thought "haven't posted on goEMAW in a while, but now that athletes are speaking out in an attempt to get minorities more rights at K-State, I better go post about why that's wrong"?

      racists have a hard time stopping being racists

      Not accusing you specifically of this, but that could be because the brush some are using in here to label others racist encompasses everyone and everything that does not agree with their point of view.

      Idk if you felt wrapped up in my statement, but it seemed pretty clear that sort of statement was directed towards people like eastcat. It doesn't have to be this super nuanced discussion. If you do feel like it was directed at you I would like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. Being concerned about 1st amendment rights is one thing, doing what Stevie said, me pointing out the obvious, has nothing to with that.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 07, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
      No, I didn't feel wrapped up in your statement at all. I was simply adding commentary to your statement that I felt was appropriate.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Man, would be incred


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      https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article243962412.html

      gah

      Quote
      ”We encourage any student who feels threatened to contact the Office of Student Life,” said Jeff Morris, university spokesman. “We have a wide array of resources to help them. We have been working closely with many of our students and student athletes who have been affected by recent events.”

      maybe Jeff could personally hit the phones and personally reach out to black students, regardless of whether or not they feel threatened? I think the students quoted have good points.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 09:46:03 AM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Man, would be incred


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article243962412.html

      gah

      Quote
      ”We encourage any student who feels threatened to contact the Office of Student Life,” said Jeff Morris, university spokesman. “We have a wide array of resources to help them. We have been working closely with many of our students and student athletes who have been affected by recent events.”

      maybe Jeff could personally hit the phones and personally reach out to black students, regardless of whether or not they feel threatened? I think the students quoted have good points.

      cRusty , do you have any information that tells you that Jeff hasn't been doing that?

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
      Just calling up the black students to make sure they are OK after someone tweeted something mean sounds condescending as eff.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 10:22:31 AM
      Yeah idk about that. Honestly a little surprised by the statements in the article about feeling unsafe since the only publicized stuff I’m aware of were false flags.

      Not doubting their feelings obviously, just clearly not a problem unique to KSU’s campus.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 10:34:40 AM
      Just calling up the black students to make sure they are OK after someone tweeted something mean sounds condescending as eff.

      it doesn't need to be a "are you OK?" call, it can be a "we're serious about making you more comfortable on campus, you're an important part of our community, here's what we're doing, how do you feel about it, what would you like to see us do differently?"

      Yeah idk about that. Honestly a little surprised by the statements in the article about feeling unsafe since the only publicized stuff I’m aware of were false flags.

      Not doubting their feelings obviously, just clearly not a problem unique to KSU’s campus.

      The students quoted cited specific non-publicized incidents that happened to them personally. The McNeil tweet just started a dialogue. And you're right that incidents like this are probably not unique to KSU, but maybe KSU could be unique in their response? (in a positive way)

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 10:41:35 AM
      actually when i looked up Jeff Morris, it probably isn't his job. But more outreach from KSU beyond "hey if you feel threatened, give us a call!" and "here's a list of possibly meaningless actions" would be nice.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 10:56:20 AM
      The Star article mentioned that there are 700 black students on campus. That sounds low. Is that correct?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 07, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
      The Star article mentioned that there are 700 black students on campus. That sounds low. Is that correct?
      It's about right.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 11:06:05 AM
      Damn. That really sucks. On the other hand, maybe it's consistent with the % of black students in their applicant pool. Idk.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 11:25:15 AM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 11:30:07 AM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 11:32:46 AM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Precisely, except KSU has a much lower number despite overall higher enrollment (assuming this is still the case, but I haven't checked lately).
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 11:33:41 AM
      Yes.... Both well under the state's demographics.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 07, 2020, 11:34:32 AM
      Damn. That really sucks. On the other hand, maybe it's consistent with the % of black students in their applicant pool. Idk.

      Everyone who applies to Kansas State gets accepted, so I would assume it is.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 11:38:41 AM
      It shouldn’t be a quest for demographics. Increasing diversity in a school or workplace makes everyone involved demonstrably better. You can’t be a great educational institution by matching the low demographics of the state you’re in.

      Obviously it’s an extra challenge for the KS schools but it’s a campaign worth fighting.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 11:43:50 AM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Precisely, except KSU has a much lower number despite overall higher enrollment (assuming this is still the case, but I haven't checked lately).

      KU always has approximately 2,000 more undergraduate students than K-State.   Wyandotte County alone has approximately 50K black residents.   So a couple of hundred more black students at KU which is right down the road isn't impressive to say the least.











      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 12:07:26 PM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Precisely, except KSU has a much lower number despite overall higher enrollment (assuming this is still the case, but I haven't checked lately).

      KU always has approximately 2,000 more undergraduate students than K-State.   Wyandotte County alone has approximately 50K black residents.   So a couple of hundred more black students at KU which is right down the road isn't impressive to say the least.

      Not that this is even germane, as I never claimed KU was somehow a model of diversity, but where are you seeing current undergraduate enrollment numbers for both schools? 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 07, 2020, 12:26:49 PM
      It’s a good old fashioned who’s the least diverse between two hick non-diverse schools off!


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      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DaBigTrain on July 07, 2020, 01:02:55 PM
      It’s a good old fashioned who’s the least diverse between two hick non-diverse schools off!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      :excited:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 01:03:43 PM
      It’s a good old fashioned who’s the least diverse between two hick non-diverse schools off!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Which only makes the handwringing by some about how this is going to impact recruiting at K-State hilarious.   Every P5 public university is pretty much cracker town with maybe a few exceptions, and the privates are even worse.    It's all about what K-State does.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 01:10:23 PM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Precisely, except KSU has a much lower number despite overall higher enrollment (assuming this is still the case, but I haven't checked lately).

      KU always has approximately 2,000 more undergraduate students than K-State.   Wyandotte County alone has approximately 50K black residents.   So a couple of hundred more black students at KU which is right down the road isn't impressive to say the least.

      Not that this is even germane, as I never claimed KU was somehow a model of diversity, but where are you seeing current undergraduate enrollment numbers for both schools?

      https://air.ku.edu/sites/air.ku.edu/files/docs/2019%20KU%20by%20the%20Numbers.pdf

      https://www.k-state.edu/pa/cds/cds2020.pdf

      https://www.k-state.edu/pa/data/public.html
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 01:28:31 PM
      It’s a good old fashioned who’s the least diverse between two hick non-diverse schools off!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      :excited:
      :bwpopcorn:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 01:40:59 PM
      Just calling up the black students to make sure they are OK after someone tweeted something mean sounds condescending as eff.

      Well, it isn't.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
      Yeah idk about that. Honestly a little surprised by the statements in the article about feeling unsafe since the only publicized stuff I’m aware of were false flags.

      Not doubting their feelings obviously, just clearly not a problem unique to KSU’s campus.

      In this case it doesn't matter how unique it is to Kansas State, that's the university they attend so that's the only school that matters. Of course kso went off the rails when this article was posted. Instead of white K-Staters losing their crap, y'all/they/whatever should be happy the student's love K-State enough to stay and make it a better place.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
      Just calling up the black students to make sure they are OK after someone tweeted something mean sounds condescending as eff.

      Well, it isn't.

      I'll expand here. I don't even know how this could be construed as condescending at all. The university made a decision to keep a vocal and visible white supremacist on campus, making a call to the people of color on campus to have a brief chat about it is the least they can do. It's great humanity and customer service. You can't be an ally if you aren't willing to give a voice to those needing to be represented and to be an active listener when the people you are professing to help wants to talk.

      Long story short, none of these problems will be solved by us not talking to people who can actually fix it.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 07, 2020, 02:09:14 PM
      I try to empathize with feelings of minority students at state but haven't yet heard much in terms of concrete things that have made some of them feel unsafe. other than 1 of 1,000,000 offensive tweets on twitter one day that happened to come from a supposed KSU student.
      is it just they are in such a minority that they are uncomfortable? that kinda makes sense
      none of them have been very specific about why they feel uncomfortable. no specific examples other than a tweet
      i believe them but also think maybe there is a little bit of jumping on the bandwagon. i know people on twitter have asked a couple of these kids quoted in the paper about specific points that led to feeling of unsafeness and the kids will not respond with specifics. When asked what KSU does not do that other colleges do there was no response.
      i hope the administration is communicating with all these kids to enlighten our leaders. i've lived in the south. the cultures and people are OVER THE TOP RACIST. not sure there would even be  a story here if it weren't for a single tweet on a social media platform famous for being offensive
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 02:11:36 PM
      Yeah idk about that. Honestly a little surprised by the statements in the article about feeling unsafe since the only publicized stuff I’m aware of were false flags.

      Not doubting their feelings obviously, just clearly not a problem unique to KSU’s campus.

      In this case it doesn't matter how unique it is to Kansas State, that's the university they attend so that's the only school that matters. Of course kso went off the rails when this article was posted. Instead of white K-Staters losing their crap, y'all/they/whatever should be happy the student's love K-State enough to stay and make it a better place.
      Well it matters in the sense that many of those students likely aren’t leaving because they don’t expect to feel better off at any of their other options.

      KSU is never going to compete with the very top schools for diverse talent, so I’d think positioning itself as better than the alternatives in its tier is a worthy benchmark. Obviously not the end goal, but it’s something.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 02:16:33 PM
      I think kRusty's follow up was fine. Asking for input on how to improve life at the university is great.  Offering services or even just someone to listen is all great.

      The condescension to me (and admit I may have taken kRusty's post the wrong way initially) is assuming that black students want or need to be checked on like the university is their mother.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
      I looked into the enrollment numbers last week and was shocked it's that low. KU is around 1100.  Kansas as a state is a not shocking 5.5% black.

      So both schools have the same very low percentage of black students relative to total undergraduate population.

      Precisely, except KSU has a much lower number despite overall higher enrollment (assuming this is still the case, but I haven't checked lately).

      KU always has approximately 2,000 more undergraduate students than K-State.   Wyandotte County alone has approximately 50K black residents.   So a couple of hundred more black students at KU which is right down the road isn't impressive to say the least.

      Not that this is even germane, as I never claimed KU was somehow a model of diversity, but where are you seeing current undergraduate enrollment numbers for both schools?

      https://air.ku.edu/sites/air.ku.edu/files/docs/2019%20KU%20by%20the%20Numbers.pdf

      https://www.k-state.edu/pa/cds/cds2020.pdf

      https://www.k-state.edu/pa/data/public.html

      Thanks. What has happened to KSU enrollment the past few years? I recall you guys getting a little pep in your step when UG enrollment surpassed KU.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 03:10:12 PM
      I think kRusty's follow up was fine. Asking for input on how to improve life at the university is great.  Offering services or even just someone to listen is all great.

      The condescension to me (and admit I may have taken kRusty's post the wrong way initially) is assuming that black students want or need to be checked on like the university is their mother.

      I wade tenuously into these waters, as I'm not a KSU stakeholder. In Supreme Court jurisprudence, there is said to be a compelling interest in the level of diversity in institutions reaching a "critical mass", such that minority students are not looked to as being so-called spokespeople of their [insert]. In that sense, I understand catastrophe's point. I think soliciting input from minority students is good, but perhaps it would be better in a town hall kind of setting, or inviting voluntary submissions from students. Reaching out directly to someone based on their melanin content sure smacks of singling out individuals as spokespeople of their [insert].
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 03:17:45 PM
      I think it's important you don't call black students and expect them to fix racism on campus. But jesus they're part of a community that was targeted in a high profile way, I don't think you need to worry about Supreme Court jurisprudence to start a conversation with that community about what happened and actions the university is taking.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 07, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
      I think it's important you don't call black students and expect them to fix racism on campus. But jesus they're part of a community that was targeted in a high profile way, I don't think you need to worry about Supreme Court jurisprudence to start a conversation with that community about what happened and actions the university is taking.

      Supreme Court?   What . . . .

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 07, 2020, 03:24:40 PM
      I think it's important you don't call black students and expect them to fix racism on campus. But jesus they're part of a community that was targeted in a high profile way, I don't think you need to worry about Supreme Court jurisprudence to start a conversation with that community about what happened and actions the university is taking.

      I don't see that we are disagreeing, so that's good.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 05:45:52 PM
      I try to empathize with feelings of minority students at state but haven't yet heard much in terms of concrete things that have made some of them feel unsafe. other than 1 of 1,000,000 offensive tweets on twitter one day that happened to come from a supposed KSU student.
      is it just they are in such a minority that they are uncomfortable? that kinda makes sense
      none of them have been very specific about why they feel uncomfortable. no specific examples other than a tweet
      i believe them but also think maybe there is a little bit of jumping on the bandwagon. i know people on twitter have asked a couple of these kids quoted in the paper about specific points that led to feeling of unsafeness and the kids will not respond with specifics. When asked what KSU does not do that other colleges do there was no response.
      i hope the administration is communicating with all these kids to enlighten our leaders. i've lived in the south. the cultures and people are OVER THE TOP RACIST. not sure there would even be  a story here if it weren't for a single tweet on a social media platform famous for being offensive

      This is an honest question, as snooty as it sounds, but why would anyone need to prove anything to you? The fact that you feel like you need "concrete evidence" to feel empathetic is telling. If anyone, in any circumstance tells you they feel uncomfortable with something the absolute wrong move is to be like "oh yeah, prove it." Your need for proof before you feel you can do anything to help indicates a lack of empathy that is improbable to overcome as the proof you're seeking is tantamount to saying, "I don't believe you, convince me otherwise."
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 05:59:57 PM
      I think kRusty's follow up was fine. Asking for input on how to improve life at the university is great.  Offering services or even just someone to listen is all great.

      The condescension to me (and admit I may have taken kRusty's post the wrong way initially) is assuming that black students want or need to be checked on like the university is their mother.

      This is a unique situation, and in this case the university is more important than their mother as their mothers wouldn't let jaden hang out in the house.

      I can't speak for others but if I were a current student, I'd have questions about how the university planned to keep me safe, a phone call would let me know that there's at least considerations being made, the school has IMO done nothing to protect students of color from hate speech unless it fits a very narrow definition. To me that isn't acceptable and I'd want answers/assurances made, and it isn't like I can just march into Anderson Hall to get them.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
      Yeah idk about that. Honestly a little surprised by the statements in the article about feeling unsafe since the only publicized stuff I’m aware of were false flags.

      Not doubting their feelings obviously, just clearly not a problem unique to KSU’s campus.

      In this case it doesn't matter how unique it is to Kansas State, that's the university they attend so that's the only school that matters. Of course kso went off the rails when this article was posted. Instead of white K-Staters losing their crap, y'all/they/whatever should be happy the student's love K-State enough to stay and make it a better place.
      Well it matters in the sense that many of those students likely aren’t leaving because they don’t expect to feel better off at any of their other options.

      I'm going to ask instead of responding because it seems like you are rebutting my point about students asking for this to be fixed because they love the school they are at and want it to be better. I read your post as saying that the motivation is actually that they see K-State the best of all bad options. That isn't your point, right? If not what exactly is your point?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 07, 2020, 06:37:34 PM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 06:43:31 PM
      I'm general, tons of people prefer to be willfully ignorant when it comes to minorities wanting to change the status quo for the better.
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 06:58:07 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 07, 2020, 07:58:08 PM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      i get that if someone says they feel unsafe then they feel unsafe. I guess my interest is in understanding why that is the case. in none of those interviews did the student explain why they feel unsafe. how is anyone supposed to know how to address someones lack of personal security if they can't explain what makes them feel that way. i'm all for looking at improving whatever we need to improve. i just like to know what exactly are we trying to improve? is it wrong to want to understand why some students want to transfer but they won't explain why?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 08:01:39 PM
      I think kRusty's follow up was fine. Asking for input on how to improve life at the university is great.  Offering services or even just someone to listen is all great.

      The condescension to me (and admit I may have taken kRusty's post the wrong way initially) is assuming that black students want or need to be checked on like the university is their mother.

      This is a unique situation, and in this case the university is more important than their mother as their mothers wouldn't let jaden hang out in the house.

      I can't speak for others but if I were a current student, I'd have questions about how the university planned to keep me safe, a phone call would let me know that there's at least considerations being made, the school has IMO done nothing to protect students of color from hate speech unless it fits a very narrow definition. To me that isn't acceptable and I'd want answers/assurances made, and it isn't like I can just march into Anderson Hall to get them.

      And that goes back to our initial disagreement that the university has any responsibility to shield students (adults) from speech they don't like, particularly when it doesn't even happen on campus.

      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 08:46:57 PM



      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      As I understand it from reading the article, it isn't about the tweet, it's about the culture. The tweet's a symptom (albeit an extra loud one) and the culture's the disease. It's a tweet combined with being called the n-word combined with lack of outreach combined with similar experiences other students have had combined with what some felt was a half hearted effort to deal with this. (All things mentioned by students other than the tweet)
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 07, 2020, 09:03:21 PM



      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      As I understand it from reading the article, it isn't about the tweet, it's about the culture. The tweet's a symptom (albeit an extra loud one) and the culture's the disease. It's a tweet combined with being called the n-word combined with lack of outreach combined with similar experiences other students have had combined with what some felt was a half hearted effort to deal with this. (All things mentioned by students other than the tweet)

      Good point, I probably am focusing a little narrowly.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Katpappy on July 07, 2020, 09:06:29 PM
      Imagine if this turned k-state into a hotbed of diversity and inclusion?
      Man, would be incred


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article243962412.html

      gah

      Quote
      ”We encourage any student who feels threatened to contact the Office of Student Life,” said Jeff Morris, university spokesman. “We have a wide array of resources to help them. We have been working closely with many of our students and student athletes who have been affected by recent events.”

      maybe Jeff could personally hit the phones and personally reach out to black students, regardless of whether or not they feel threatened? I think the students quoted have good points.

      Rusty, did you see the protest march vid?  It looked like mostly white with a few blacks and I didn't notice any other people of color.  It seems there should have been more ppl of color at a march for their rights; again very strange.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Katpappy on July 07, 2020, 09:16:36 PM
      actually when i looked up Jeff Morris, it probably isn't his job. But more outreach from KSU beyond "hey if you feel threatened, give us a call!" and "here's a list of possibly meaningless actions" would be nice.

      I feel like this would be a great assignment for a person of color, not some white person stating crap for the sake of the university to show support.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 07, 2020, 10:00:39 PM



      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      As I understand it from reading the article, it isn't about the tweet, it's about the culture. The tweet's a symptom (albeit an extra loud one) and the culture's the disease. It's a tweet combined with being called the n-word combined with lack of outreach combined with similar experiences other students have had combined with what some felt was a half hearted effort to deal with this. (All things mentioned by students other than the tweet)
      your explanation still doesn't explain it. "similar experiences other students have had"? What are those experiences?  the tweet; lack of outreach; and half hearted effort (which i strongly disagree with) are not really part of a culture. those are separate items. so you didn't really name what the culture problem actually is. i dont hear the n word used often as an explanation of poor culture. i just hear culture. but no one can actually say what they are talking about. you didn't explain it either.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 07, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      I'll take the people's words for it.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      What exactly is wrong with you? These black students are liars that can't go to another school?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 10:09:57 PM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      i get that if someone says they feel unsafe then they feel unsafe. I guess my interest is in understanding why that is the case. in none of those interviews did the student explain why they feel unsafe. how is anyone supposed to know how to address someones lack of personal security if they can't explain what makes them feel that way. i'm all for looking at improving whatever we need to improve. i just like to know what exactly are we trying to improve? is it wrong to want to understand why some students want to transfer but they won't explain why?

      Yes, it's wrong, and I've already explained to you why. Unless one of these students is your child they don't owe you or anyone else anything.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 10:28:29 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      I'll take the people's words for it.

      Same
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 10:31:51 PM
      I think kRusty's follow up was fine. Asking for input on how to improve life at the university is great.  Offering services or even just someone to listen is all great.

      The condescension to me (and admit I may have taken kRusty's post the wrong way initially) is assuming that black students want or need to be checked on like the university is their mother.

      This is a unique situation, and in this case the university is more important than their mother as their mothers wouldn't let jaden hang out in the house.

      I can't speak for others but if I were a current student, I'd have questions about how the university planned to keep me safe, a phone call would let me know that there's at least considerations being made, the school has IMO done nothing to protect students of color from hate speech unless it fits a very narrow definition. To me that isn't acceptable and I'd want answers/assurances made, and it isn't like I can just march into Anderson Hall to get them.

      And that goes back to our initial disagreement that the university has any responsibility to shield students (adults) from speech they don't like, particularly when it doesn't even happen on campus.

      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      This is the same argument people, including me, said when trump was elected. His embrace of white supremacy wouldn't lead to a spread of the viewpoint. Well I was wrong, it clearly did, his, I won't even call it a support, let's call it antipathy towards the spread of white supremacy has lead to people like jaden feeling much more comfortable spreading it publicly. With the prevalence of this spreading nationally. To me it seems perfectly rational to think that open white supremacy on the campus will be more prevalent given the school blinked when it stared them squarely in the face. At the very least the veil of fear of punishment any of them may have felt is gone. There's nothing stopping neo-nazis from standing outside of a Hillel meeting in the union, intimidating people who want to go in. There's nothing stopping jaden and his crew holding a no coons on campus protest on the quad in front of Eisenhower Hall. There's nothing stopping the Proud Boys from picketing Women's Studies classes. Sure, there was nothing stopping these things from happening before, but now there is absolutely no fear of sanctions from the school. All these things have been green lighted when there may have been some doubt previously.

      It's also why people just throwing up their hands and saying speech has to be protected is so frustrating. What is protected speech is and always has been up for interpretation. What is defined as hate speech has changed. This was the time for K-State to stand up against clear hate speech and they didn't do it. The thought that "well it's legal and we can't do anything about" it is why Jim Crow laws were in place for as long as they were. You all are condoning cowardice and inaction when the opposite was needed. It is 100% a privilege to think there absolutely won't be negative consequences to students of color when the school showed that it won't do whatever it takes to protect them.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 07, 2020, 10:32:23 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      I'll take the people's words for it.

      Same

      Work on your comprehension
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 07, 2020, 10:37:41 PM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      What exactly is wrong with you? These black students are liars that can't go to another school?

      Well that is rich suggesting that I don't believe the students.  I'm extrapolating from the actual statements, whereas you appeared to have pulled this completely from your entire ass:

      Instead of white K-Staters losing their crap, y'all/they/whatever should be happy the student's love K-State enough to stay and make it a better place.

      The students quoted in the article never said they stayed at K-State because they loved it or that they wanted to make it a better place.  They said they stayed because they did not have better options to transfer for the degrees they were pursuing.  And whatever the race-related issues they experienced, they were not enough to make them want to take their credits elsewhere.  I have no doubt they had plenty of options.

      If anything this shows that if universities like KSU want to attract diverse students, it HAS to be a combination of both (1) increasing cultural awareness and tolerance campus wide; and (2) focusing on providing high quality programs to attract quality students.  The fact the quoted students were dedicated to KSU's veterinary and engineering programs is really no surprise to me.  Those are two of the best programs K-State has to offer.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 07, 2020, 11:15:57 PM



      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      As I understand it from reading the article, it isn't about the tweet, it's about the culture. The tweet's a symptom (albeit an extra loud one) and the culture's the disease. It's a tweet combined with being called the n-word combined with lack of outreach combined with similar experiences other students have had combined with what some felt was a half hearted effort to deal with this. (All things mentioned by students other than the tweet)
      your explanation still doesn't explain it. "similar experiences other students have had"? What are those experiences?  the tweet; lack of outreach; and half hearted effort (which i strongly disagree with) are not really part of a culture. those are separate items. so you didn't really name what the culture problem actually is. i dont hear the n word used often as an explanation of poor culture. i just hear culture. but no one can actually say what they are talking about. you didn't explain it either.

      I don't think you really care to understand
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 01:33:31 AM
      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.

      They’re saying that among schools with programs at KSU’s level, they don’t see better options.

      What exactly is wrong with you? These black students are liars that can't go to another school?

      Well that is rich suggesting that I don't believe the students.  I'm extrapolating from the actual statements, whereas you appeared to have pulled this completely from your entire ass:

      Instead of white K-Staters losing their crap, y'all/they/whatever should be happy the student's love K-State enough to stay and make it a better place.

      The students quoted in the article never said they stayed at K-State because they loved it or that they wanted to make it a better place.  They said they stayed because they did not have better options to transfer for the degrees they were pursuing.  And whatever the race-related issues they experienced, they were not enough to make them want to take their credits elsewhere.  I have no doubt they had plenty of options.

      If anything this shows that if universities like KSU want to attract diverse students, it HAS to be a combination of both (1) increasing cultural awareness and tolerance campus wide; and (2) focusing on providing high quality programs to attract quality students.  The fact the quoted students were dedicated to KSU's veterinary and engineering programs is really no surprise to me.  Those are two of the best programs K-State has to offer.

      You seem to be the only person with that interpretation, I'm not going to try to figure out your agenda for making such a dubious interpretation.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 08, 2020, 09:12:33 AM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      i get that if someone says they feel unsafe then they feel unsafe. I guess my interest is in understanding why that is the case. in none of those interviews did the student explain why they feel unsafe. how is anyone supposed to know how to address someones lack of personal security if they can't explain what makes them feel that way. i'm all for looking at improving whatever we need to improve. i just like to know what exactly are we trying to improve? is it wrong to want to understand why some students want to transfer but they won't explain why?

      Yes, it's wrong, and I've already explained to you why. Unless one of these students is your child they don't owe you or anyone else anything.

      Well good luck on achieving a cultural change if they can't explain how the existing culture is harmful to one's personal security. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 08, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
      To the extent you guys are interested, here is a fairly analogous case from the 70s:
      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html)

      The arguments are very similar to those at issue re. McNeil.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 08, 2020, 10:21:25 AM
      sorry n00b lawyer but i don't read case law, i write it
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 08, 2020, 10:27:52 AM
      sorry n00b lawyer but i don't read case law, i write it
      i am the caselaw, son.  read me and weep. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 08, 2020, 12:11:42 PM



      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.

      As I understand it from reading the article, it isn't about the tweet, it's about the culture. The tweet's a symptom (albeit an extra loud one) and the culture's the disease. It's a tweet combined with being called the n-word combined with lack of outreach combined with similar experiences other students have had combined with what some felt was a half hearted effort to deal with this. (All things mentioned by students other than the tweet)
      your explanation still doesn't explain it. "similar experiences other students have had"? What are those experiences?  the tweet; lack of outreach; and half hearted effort (which i strongly disagree with) are not really part of a culture. those are separate items. so you didn't really name what the culture problem actually is. i dont hear the n word used often as an explanation of poor culture. i just hear culture. but no one can actually say what they are talking about. you didn't explain it either.

      I don't think you really care to understand
      and you would be wrong. what in my writing has conveyed an intention to not understand? i am asking questions to get better educated. that is how we solve problems. and neither of you can tell me what the campus culture is like at KSU that is threatening to people of color. is asking that question racist? i dont understand what is wrong with the question. how do we overcome obstacles without understanding the obstacles? i understand each of us takes responsibility for how we make others feel. but how do we improve individually if we are not educated? you certainly wouldn't expect anything to change without first explaining the problem
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 08, 2020, 12:24:10 PM

      You seem to be the only person with that interpretation, I'm not going to try to figure out your agenda for making such a dubious interpretation.

      My agenda is the same as KSU’s: educate some fools.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 02:04:33 PM
      and you would be wrong. what in my writing has conveyed an intention to not understand? i am asking questions to get better educated. that is how we solve problems. and neither of you can tell me what the campus culture is like at KSU that is threatening to people of color.

      The black students quoted the article explained themselves quite well, you're just either ignoring or dismissing them.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 08, 2020, 02:49:47 PM
      Here's a way to view the article.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 08, 2020, 03:34:17 PM
      and you would be wrong. what in my writing has conveyed an intention to not understand? i am asking questions to get better educated. that is how we solve problems. and neither of you can tell me what the campus culture is like at KSU that is threatening to people of color.

      The black students quoted the article explained themselves quite well, you're just either ignoring or dismissing them.
      i disagree. i have read the article. they did not explain what has made them feel scared. please quote the information where the specific threat was identified or source of the fear.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 08, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
      Here's a way to view the article.

      we need less people like him in the world. total douche
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 03:58:52 PM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      i get that if someone says they feel unsafe then they feel unsafe. I guess my interest is in understanding why that is the case. in none of those interviews did the student explain why they feel unsafe. how is anyone supposed to know how to address someones lack of personal security if they can't explain what makes them feel that way. i'm all for looking at improving whatever we need to improve. i just like to know what exactly are we trying to improve? is it wrong to want to understand why some students want to transfer but they won't explain why?

      Yes, it's wrong, and I've already explained to you why. Unless one of these students is your child they don't owe you or anyone else anything.

      Well good luck on achieving a cultural change if they can't explain how the existing culture is harmful to one's personal security.

      They don't need to explain that, there's thousands of places you can go to get the explanation of you want it, including this thread. There is no standing for adults to claim ignorance on this topic.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 04:12:27 PM
      Here's a way to view the article.

      we need less people like him in the world. total douche

      Dismissal isn't any less harmful than willful ignorance. Neither, however, are as bad as people who need to be allies but are afraid of the dirty work.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
      To the extent you guys are interested, here is a fairly analogous case from the 70s:
      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html)

      The arguments are very similar to those at issue re. McNeil.

      I'll be real, I'm not going to read 50 year old case law, because I'm not in college anymore. However I do have a direct question for you and the other attorneys on the board, hell for anyone. It's a yes/no question, two actually.

      1. Isn't there extensive case law and precedent used to interpret broaden/narrow the scope of constitutional amendments?
      2. Has what's considered protected speech changed in any way since 1791?

      If the answer to either questions is yes, isn't the opinion that the university should let him stay to protect his first amendment rights just essentially saying you (general term) don't think this is a battle worthy of the university fighting? I'm very put off by some people who are yielding the first amendment as some mind bending labyrinth, not even worth trying to solve.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 08, 2020, 04:40:24 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 08, 2020, 04:41:35 PM
      From the article, here were the reasons offered for staying.

      Quote
      “I thought about transferring because of all of this,” she said. “But I came to K-State because of the veterinarian medicine program. It’s too hard to start over. It is easier to stay than to transfer.”

      Besides, she said, she wants to stay and push for change. “But it feels like we are fighting a battle we should not have to fight. When minority students who want to come to K-State ask what it is like on campus, I want to be able to tell them that it’s safe, that they care about us.”

      Quote
      Molinar of Wichita said she doesn’t want to sound hopeless. “But I have thought about leaving K-State. And even considered it. But at the end of the day I am at K-State because I am an engineering student, it’s a good school for that and I’m there to get my degree.”

      Quote
      Ayana Belk, a graduate of Kansas City’s Lincoln College Preparatory Academy, said she feels trapped at K-State because she’s a junior majoring in landscape architecture. “With that major, it’s not easy to just go somewhere else,” the 20-year-old said.

      “I did let them know that I didn’t want to come back to K-State and that I did want to transfer,” Belk said. “But I’m going back because my program does very well coming out of K-State.”

      They’re not saying race relations would be just as bad elsewhere. They’re saying they’ll deal with shitty race relations at KSU because given their majors, finishing at KSU is worth it.
      i get that if someone says they feel unsafe then they feel unsafe. I guess my interest is in understanding why that is the case. in none of those interviews did the student explain why they feel unsafe. how is anyone supposed to know how to address someones lack of personal security if they can't explain what makes them feel that way. i'm all for looking at improving whatever we need to improve. i just like to know what exactly are we trying to improve? is it wrong to want to understand why some students want to transfer but they won't explain why?

      Yes, it's wrong, and I've already explained to you why. Unless one of these students is your child they don't owe you or anyone else anything.

      Well good luck on achieving a cultural change if they can't explain how the existing culture is harmful to one's personal security.

      They don't need to explain that, there's thousands of places you can go to get the explanation of you want it, including this thread. There is no standing for adults to claim ignorance on this topic.
      [/quote
      ok cool. could you simply tell me where to go to find the explanation for why these ksu students are fearful on campus? if there are thousands of places to get the answer could you direct me to just one? that would be helpful so all us ignorant people can become a little less ignorant. you name call but give ambiguous and unclear answers to simple questions. how do u expect anyone to ever come close to your intellectual capacity if you dont help them out with where to get educated?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 08, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.
      what if a large majority of people agree that racist speech is threatening? threatening people i believe is against the law.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 04:45:30 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      I think publicly-subsidized college should be looked at as a benefit. Is not receiving a benefit a punishment? Are there any government benefits that can be withheld from racists? (I asked a question to this effect a while back and didn't receive an answer)

      I can honestly kind of see arguments both ways.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 08, 2020, 04:47:55 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      I think publicly-subsidized college should be looked at as a benefit. Is not receiving a benefit a punishment? Are there any government benefits that can be withheld from racists? (I asked a question to this effect a while back and didn't receive an answer)

      I can honestly kind of see arguments both ways.

      I also asked the question earlier about which other government services should be denied to Jaden and got no response.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 08, 2020, 04:56:52 PM
      To the extent you guys are interested, here is a fairly analogous case from the 70s:
      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html)

      The arguments are very similar to those at issue re. McNeil.

      I'll be real, I'm not going to read 50 year old case law, because I'm not in college anymore. However I do have a direct question for you and the other attorneys on the board, hell for anyone. It's a yes/no question, two actually.

      1. Isn't there extensive case law and precedent used to interpret broaden/narrow the scope of constitutional amendments?
      2. Has what's considered protected speech changed in any way since 1791?

      If the answer to either questions is yes, isn't the opinion that the university should let him stay to protect his first amendment rights just essentially saying you (general term) don't think this is a battle worthy of the university fighting? I'm very put off by some people who are yielding the first amendment as some mind bending labyrinth, not even worth trying to solve.
      I'll tell you that I'm a bit rusty on 1A procedural stuff -- spracs seems to have a better understanding so I'll defer to him if my analysis is off.  But the answer to both questions 1 and 2 --  "yes." 

      That said, lower courts would be governed by the established precedent, which undeniably recognizes that expelling this guy would constitute an intentional violation of his constitutional rights.  McNeil is back in school a week or two after filing the case, btw.  We would 100% lose at the trial level with the only question remaining being damages (not ideal!).  SCOTUS could theoretically hear the case (though that's not likely) (also we're spending an assload at this point on fees and we're likely already judgment debtors for the punitive amount) seeking to overturn decades of established precedent, but that sort of thing is exceedingly, exceedingly rare.  If by some chance this hypothetical case did make it to the Supreme Court, I suspect the Court would unanimously rule against us. I'd put our odds of success somewhere between 0-5% -- and that may be generous.  Also, the resolution of this case would be years down the line.

      So yes, it's possible the precedent could get overruled.  No, it's a virtual certainty we'd lose.  It's also a certainty that this would cost K-State 7-8 figures.  If your only bet is overturning 50 year old Supreme Court precedent, it's usually not a good idea. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      I think publicly-subsidized college should be looked at as a benefit. Is not receiving a benefit a punishment? Are there any government benefits that can be withheld from racists? (I asked a question to this effect a while back and didn't receive an answer)

      I can honestly kind of see arguments both ways.

      I also asked the question earlier about which other government services should be denied to Jaden and got no response.

      I don't think America First Students should be a non-profit or receive support from KSU, even if they meet the minimum number of members or get faculty sponsorship
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 08, 2020, 05:00:26 PM
      I could probably be persuaded on that. I am completely ignorant of clubs and how they interact with the university though
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 08, 2020, 05:09:24 PM
      To the extent you guys are interested, here is a fairly analogous case from the 70s:
      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html)

      The arguments are very similar to those at issue re. McNeil.

      I'll be real, I'm not going to read 50 year old case law, because I'm not in college anymore. However I do have a direct question for you and the other attorneys on the board, hell for anyone. It's a yes/no question, two actually.

      1. Isn't there extensive case law and precedent used to interpret broaden/narrow the scope of constitutional amendments?
      2. Has what's considered protected speech changed in any way since 1791?

      If the answer to either questions is yes, isn't the opinion that the university should let him stay to protect his first amendment rights just essentially saying you (general term) don't think this is a battle worthy of the university fighting? I'm very put off by some people who are yielding the first amendment as some mind bending labyrinth, not even worth trying to solve.
      I'll tell you that I'm a bit rusty on 1A procedural stuff -- spracs seems to have a better understanding so I'll defer to him if my analysis is off.  But the answer to both questions 1 and 2 --  "yes." 

      That said, lower courts would be governed by the established precedent, which undeniably recognizes that expelling this guy would constitute an intentional violation of his constitutional rights.  McNeil is back in school a week or two after filing the case, btw.  We would 100% lose at the trial level with the only question remaining being damages (not ideal!).  Eventually, SCOTUS could theoretically hear the case (though that's not likely) (also we're spending an assload at this point on fees and we're likely already judgment debtors for the punitive amount) seeking to overturn decades of established precedent, but that sort of thing is exceedingly, exceedingly rare.  If by some chance this hypothetical case did make it to the Supreme Court, I suspect the Court would unanimously rule against us. I'd put our odds of success somewhere between 0-5% -- and that may be generous.  Also, the resolution of this case would be years down the line.

      So yes, it's possible the precedent could get overruled.  No, it's a virtual certainty we'd lose.  It's also a certainty that this would cost K-State 7-8 figures.  If your only bet is overturning 50 year old Supreme Court precedent, it's usually not a good idea.
      Also, full disclosure, I wouldn't want K-State to win a case like that because I think it's important to protect free-expression on college campuses - even the expression of ideas i think are stupid and harmful because I'm sure there are plenty of people out there (WHO ARE PIECES OF crap, btw) who think my ideas are stupid and harmful.  So take everything I say with a grain of salt because I'm a bit biased.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 08, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
      To the extent you guys are interested, here is a fairly analogous case from the 70s:
      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html)

      The arguments are very similar to those at issue re. McNeil.

      I'll be real, I'm not going to read 50 year old case law, because I'm not in college anymore. However I do have a direct question for you and the other attorneys on the board, hell for anyone. It's a yes/no question, two actually.

      1. Isn't there extensive case law and precedent used to interpret broaden/narrow the scope of constitutional amendments?
      2. Has what's considered protected speech changed in any way since 1791?

      If the answer to either questions is yes, isn't the opinion that the university should let him stay to protect his first amendment rights just essentially saying you (general term) don't think this is a battle worthy of the university fighting? I'm very put off by some people who are yielding the first amendment as some mind bending labyrinth, not even worth trying to solve.
      There’s absolutely 100% always room for change. Your challenge would be crafting a rule that doesn’t have potentially disastrous implications for speech (and would therefore be rejected in a heartbeat).

      If you can figure out a way to do that, you could have a case. I just haven’t heard even a half baked suggestion that makes sense to handle something like this.

      You can’t tell schools they’re allowed to repress racist/hate/repugnant speech because the terms are so open ended every case would be litigated and there would be no concept of what is and isn’t ok to punish. That kind of uncertainty would lead to the paradigm of a chilling effect on speech.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 08, 2020, 05:29:15 PM
      Would Jaden pass the character and fitness part of the bar exam process?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cfbandyman on July 08, 2020, 05:31:46 PM

      You seem to be the only person with that interpretation, I'm not going to try to figure out your agenda for making such a dubious interpretation.

      My agenda is the same as KSU’s: educate some fools.

      Yup. Also, they could've used this as an education moment and had him have to take an African American history course and make it a pre-req for graduation. They control after all how you get a degree.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 08, 2020, 05:35:39 PM

      You seem to be the only person with that interpretation, I'm not going to try to figure out your agenda for making such a dubious interpretation.

      My agenda is the same as KSU’s: educate some fools.

      Yup. Also, they could've used this as an education moment and had him have to take an African American history course and make it a pre-req for graduation. They control after all how you get a degree.
      Adding something like that to the core curriculum would be a great step, IMO.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 08, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
       The only thing that will actually fix the problem is society not accepting racism, not implementing rules against it. Which I recognize is being attempted. Hopefully all this will cause people to speak out more often to their friends/family that have racist tendencies. That's a big slow boat to turn around though, as history shows. However racism has clearly receded over decades and I expect it will continue to do so, although doubtful to ever truly die. Maybe all this can accelerate the process? We can only hope.

      But I guess what I'm saying is that I still support the right for dumbass people to say dumbass things within the confines of law. Society itself has to defeat small minds, and IMO, it's very important to keep our rights intact during that process.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 05:43:55 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 05:53:12 PM


      The only thing that will actually fix the problem is society not accepting racism, not implementing rules against it.

      Rules might not be best way in your opinion but they could definitely help.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 08, 2020, 06:01:07 PM


      The only thing that will actually fix the problem is society not accepting racism, not implementing rules against it.
      It could quiet it to some degree, but winning over minds is the real prize. I don't think rules really affect that.
      Rules might not be best way in your opinion but they could definitely help.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 08, 2020, 06:06:17 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?

      Wow
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 06:07:10 PM




      The only thing that will actually fix the problem is society not accepting racism, not implementing rules against it.
      It could quiet it to some degree, but winning over minds is the real prize. I don't think rules really affect that.
      Rules might not be best way in your opinion but they could definitely help.

      If you force knuckleheads like Jaden underground or off campus you definitely make it more difficult for them to organize and get attention. I'm sure he would attract lots of folks who go College Republicans -> TPUSA -> America First who might have just stopped at College Republicans if the America First wasn't an option
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Chingon on July 08, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 08, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Depends on your definition of educate, but racists aren’t irredeemable, ideologically, imo.  Whether that’s a fight worth fighting is a different matter.

      College students are crazy impressionable though.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 07:04:41 PM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Depends on your definition of educate, but racists aren’t irredeemable, ideologically, imo.  Whether that’s a fight worth fighting is a different matter.

      College students are crazy impressionable though.

      yeah I don't understand how chings is coming up with this. I've definitely evolved on race relations since I left college. Granted it wasn't necessarily driven by someone "educating" me, but learning and listening was part of it.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Chingon on July 08, 2020, 07:13:01 PM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Depends on your definition of educate, but racists aren’t irredeemable, ideologically, imo.  Whether that’s a fight worth fighting is a different matter.

      College students are crazy impressionable though.
      By educate, I mean someone representing the University providing material to a student with the intent to teach them something.

      I don't believe in the excuse of ignorance as a true cause of racism for anyone raised (except for extremely extenuating circumstances) in this country.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 08, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Depends on your definition of educate, but racists aren’t irredeemable, ideologically, imo.  Whether that’s a fight worth fighting is a different matter.

      College students are crazy impressionable though.
      By educate, I mean someone representing the University providing material to a student with the intent to teach them something.

      I don't believe in the excuse of ignorance as a true cause of racism for anyone raised (except for extremely extenuating circumstances) in this country.

      You're probably right on the first part, but I disagree on the second - again, depends on your definition of "racist". I think there are plenty of casual dog-whistley racists that are that way because they never interacted with minorities.

      I'd say an example is when I grew up I used the phrase "jewed him down" quite a bit. I didn't know any Jews or really understand why it was wrong! I probably even used it in college. I don't use that phrase any more.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 08, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
      A huge piece of racism can be educated away. Very few racists actively seek to oppress minorities. The vast majority just seek to perpetuate systems to their advantage either without knowing or being indifferent about the fact that they oppress minorities.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 08, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?

      Wow


      Please sit this out, at the very least until I can get an answer to my question and I can rebut before you freak out about nothing. Thanks.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: nicname on July 09, 2020, 02:50:59 AM
      You can't educate someone old enough to be in college away from being a racist.
      Depends on your definition of educate, but racists aren’t irredeemable, ideologically, imo.  Whether that’s a fight worth fighting is a different matter.

      College students are crazy impressionable though.
      By educate, I mean someone representing the University providing material to a student with the intent to teach them something.

      I don't believe in the excuse of ignorance as a true cause of racism for anyone raised (except for extremely extenuating circumstances) in this country.

      You're probably right on the first part, but I disagree on the second - again, depends on your definition of "racist". I think there are plenty of casual dog-whistley racists that are that way because they never interacted with minorities.

      I'd say an example is when I grew up I used the phrase "jewed him down" quite a bit. I didn't know any Jews or really understand why it was wrong! I probably even used it in college. I don't use that phrase any more.

      Goddam rusty and Stephen Jackson, two peas in a pod!
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 07:53:35 AM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?

      Wow


      Please sit this out, at the very least until I can get an answer to my question and I can rebut before you freak out about nothing. Thanks.

      Because I believe that freedom of speech is the cornerstone of a free society. Yes, there are some pretty specific limitations mostly dealing with breaking the law. I understand that you want to file racism in that category as well but it comes dangerously close to thought crime and that's just not something I can support.

      If a person is being threatening or harrasing, that's a different discussion.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 08:53:01 AM
      A lot of racist speech is threatening or harassing. I think Jaden's tweet comes pretty close to harassment.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 08:54:15 AM
      I don't think it comes anywhere near harassment
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 09, 2020, 08:57:12 AM
      I don't think it comes anywhere near harassment

      agreed
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 09, 2020, 09:08:09 AM
      I don't think it comes anywhere near harassment

      yeah. if he was going around saying it directly at people, i could see that being interpreted as harassment or fighting words. but since he just put it on twitter - where presumably twitter doesn't force you to see his content and you have to go seek it out - i think that just means he's confirming that he's a piece of crap.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 09, 2020, 09:11:24 AM
      I don't think it comes anywhere near harassment

      agreed
      Oddly enough, the people who would be the ones harassed disagree.

      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 09:11:45 AM
      I would think of harassment in terms of, would the aggrieved person have any chance of getting a restraining order from the alleged harasser?

      When someone says shitty things about someone else that you saw on social media, you’ve got a tough case there.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 09:19:04 AM
      You can't legislate morality
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 09:23:28 AM
      I don't think it comes anywhere near harassment

      yeah. if he was going around saying it directly at people, i could see that being interpreted as harassment or fighting words. but since he just put it on twitter - where presumably twitter doesn't force you to see his content and you have to go seek it out - i think that just means he's confirming that he's a piece of crap.

      I saw his post without seeking it out. I would bet the vast majority of people who saw his post don't follow him.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 09, 2020, 09:23:37 AM


      I would think of harassment in terms of, would the aggrieved person have any chance of getting a restraining order from the alleged harasser?

      When someone says shitty things not about you that you saw, you’ve got a tough case there.

      Harassment definitely doesn't need to be targeted at an individual. It's about making the environment uncomfortable for someone based on who or what they are. Jaden's a really smart racist because he's about at close to harassment as you can get and still have people defending him.
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 09:35:25 AM


      I would think of harassment in terms of, would the aggrieved person have any chance of getting a restraining order from the alleged harasser?

      When someone says shitty things not about you that you saw, you’ve got a tough case there.

      Harassment definitely doesn't need to be targeted at an individual. It's about making the environment uncomfortable for someone based on who or what they are. Jaden's a really smart racist because he's about at close to harassment as you can get and still have people defending him.
      Well that’s just a ridiculously low bar you’ve set. That’s like saying the straight people eating at chick fil a were harassed by those dudes kissing.

      The university should be focused on making people feel safe. But comfortable based on their identity? I can’t think of any group who has more vocally complained about being targeted based on identity than white men. I don’t think we should be catering to people’s comfort level.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 09, 2020, 09:39:53 AM


      I would think of harassment in terms of, would the aggrieved person have any chance of getting a restraining order from the alleged harasser?

      When someone says shitty things not about you that you saw, you’ve got a tough case there.

      Harassment definitely doesn't need to be targeted at an individual. It's about making the environment uncomfortable for someone based on who or what they are. Jaden's a really smart racist because he's about at close to harassment as you can get and still have people defending him.
      Well that’s just a ridiculously low bar you’ve set. That’s like saying the straight people eating at chick fil a were harassed by those dudes kissing.

      I didn't set it! (probably should have used "intimidating" or "hostile" instead of "uncomfortable"). And I know employment law doesn't apply here, but feel free to point me to the university's definition of harrassment

      Quote
      . Harassment becomes unlawful where 1) enduring the offensive conduct becomes a condition of continued employment, or 2) the conduct is severe or pervasive enough to create a work environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive.

      https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 09:54:58 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 09, 2020, 09:58:48 AM
      This guy rocketed into some of our awareness with that tweet, but the tweet in a vacuum isn't the harassment and/or thing that has people uneasy at KSU.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
      This guy rocketed into some of our awareness with that tweet, but the tweet in a vacuum isn't the harassment and/or thing that has people uneasy at KSU.
      But he’s staying in the conversation because a lot of folks are still demanding a pound of flesh.  Kicking that guy out is still the only actual proposal I’ve seen from the crowd who says the University’s latest steps aren’t going far enough.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
      Maybe the state should just execute him. Do racists have a right to life?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 09, 2020, 10:24:57 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?
      Yes! Do you consider the university not granting America First Students official club status (or whatever) a "punishment"? What about giving them money for bringing in speakers?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 09, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
      Maybe the state should just execute him. Do racists have a right to life?
      You're better than this
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 10:34:15 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?
      Yes! Do you consider the university not granting America First Students official club status (or whatever) a "punishment"? What about giving them money for bringing in speakers?
      Definitely a closer call, IMO.  Could go either way, really.

      I personally don't care much about the student groups/speaker issue though.  No skin off my nose if K-State isn't doling out money to student groups because it doesn't agree with their message.  Just not an issue that would bother me very much.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 10:36:06 AM
      Good idealistic liberal (seven) v. complete radicalized psycho (mich)

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 10:56:24 AM
      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?

      Wow


      Please sit this out, at the very least until I can get an answer to my question and I can rebut before you freak out about nothing. Thanks.

      Because I believe that freedom of speech is the cornerstone of a free society. Yes, there are some pretty specific limitations mostly dealing with breaking the law. I understand that you want to file racism in that category as well but it comes dangerously close to thought crime and that's just not something I can support.

      If a person is being threatening or harrasing, that's a different discussion.

      I feel like your last sentence is trying to have your cake and eat it too. We rightly have a very broad definition of what's considered gender based harassment, why is it okay to narrow that definition for race? A large part of the reasoning for broadening of the definition of sexual harassment was because it was thought that women weren't being allowed to work and study in environments that weren't openly hostile. What I'm hearing when someone uses the term like "thought crime" is that I don't have the right to walk into my place of work without seeing KKK posters, because your right to put those posters up where I can see them everyday, is more important. Also you're allowing the potential harasser to dictate what they view as harassment. Let's say I walk out of Kedzie Hall and skinhead, ss arm bands, iron cross tattoos, and all walks up to me and says "hey spook, I know who you are and you better watch yourself." Harassment or not? By your definition, it isn't, there was no implied threat. What do you think happens to the university if I report this, they tell me they can't take action because there was no direct or implied threat, then I get either hurt or killed by a skinhead?

      As for this specific case, you're getting hung up on the one tweet instead of the history of what this student has done and the environment he's created that led to another student getting a picture of her face in a noose sent to her. He has a documented history of encouraging others to harass other students.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
      I would think of harassment in terms of, would the aggrieved person have any chance of getting a restraining order from the alleged harasser?

      There have been plenty of legal definitions of harassment that falls well short of this, especially in schools and workplaces.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
      You can't legislate morality

      Is there a law that doesn't legislate morality? Are you familiar with what laws are?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 11:04:41 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 11:08:03 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
      Maybe the state should just execute him. Do racists have a right to life?
      You're better than this

      Starting to wonder if this conversation is even happening in good faith. When you start sounding like cat27 it may be time to reevaluate your position.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 09, 2020, 11:09:44 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?

      Seems like a good rule, but only if MIR specifically is offended by the speech. Fragility, smdh.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 11:10:37 AM
      Yes, I do think your scenario is sufficient for harassment. Maybe not enough to do anything legally (not a lawyer), but reporting it would at least be a step in establishing a pattern of targeted behavior if it happens again. At the very least I would think those actions are sufficient to be placed on probation or suspension from violation of university policy.

      As far as the kkk posters at your workplace, 1) you have the freedom to not work at a place where that is acceptable. 2)the company has the freedom to not allow that and fire the offender. 3) I'm not sure that's even legal given eeo, which I have no problem with.  But once again you're trying to muddle the lines between government censorship and private censorship.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 11:14:24 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?

      Twitter isn't unique, they are written/typed words and should be legislated the same way any other written/typed words are, which, for the most part, are legislated the same way spoken words are. Also stop it with the term "offensive" this is in part what I'm talking about when I say I wonder if this conversation is happening in good faith. No one thinks you should be thrown out of school for offending someone. Using that very narrow language in one tweet made by someone in the heat of the moment is the same thing as limiting the conversation about Jaden to just the George Floyd tweet. This conversation is about figuring out what constitutes harassment.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 11:18:49 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?

      Seems like a good rule, but only if MIR specifically is offended by the speech. Fragility, smdh.

      You're not nearly close to as clever as you think you are. I haven't said a goddamned thing about being offensive. I live for offending people like you who think that knowing the difference between being offended and being harassed is some erudite thought process.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 11:26:36 AM

      I didn't set it! (probably should have used "intimidating" or "hostile" instead of "uncomfortable"). And I know employment law doesn't apply here, but feel free to point me to the university's definition of harrassment

      It’s actually pretty robust. Apparently some folks have already put a lot of thought into this thing:

      Quote
      B.  Harassment: In this Policy, the term “harassment” has two different definitions, the application of which depend on where the alleged conduct takes place and its context. Harassment meeting either of these definitions is discrimination.

      1.   In the work, on-campus housing, or other non-academic environments, “harassment” is:

      Conduct toward a person or persons based on race, color, ethnic or national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, age, ancestry, disability, genetic information, military status, or veteran status that:                           

               (a) has the purpose or effect of:

                     (1) creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment or on-campus housing environment for the person(s); or

                     (2) unreasonably interfering with the work, or on-campus housing, of the person(s); and

               (b) is sufficiently severe or pervasive that it alters the terms, conditions, or privileges of a person’s employment, use of on-campus housing, academic opportunities or participation in university-sponsored activities.

      2.   In the academic environment, “harassment” is:

      Conduct toward a person or persons based on race, color, ethnic or national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, age, ancestry, disability, genetic information, military status, or veteran status that:

               (a) has the purpose and effect of:

                      (1) creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive educational environment for the person(s); or

                      (2) unreasonably interfering with the academic performance or participation in any university-sponsored activity of the person; or

                      (3) threatening the academic opportunities of the person; and

              (b) is sufficiently severe or pervasive that it alters the terms, conditions, or privileges of the person’s academic opportunities or participation in university-sponsored activities.

      Whether conduct is sufficient to constitute “harassment” is evaluated under the totality of the circumstances, including the frequency of the conduct, its severity, whether it is physically threatening or humiliating, or merely an offensive utterance.  These factors are evaluated from both subjective and objective viewpoints, considering not only effect that conduct actually had on the person, but also the impact it would likely have had on a reasonable person in the same situation.  The conduct must subjectively and objectively meet the definition to be “harassment” to be a violation of this Policy.  Repeated incidents, even where each would not, on its own, constitute harassment, may collectively constitute harassment.

      Depending on the circumstances, some occurrences may require evaluation under both definitions.

      https://www.k-state.edu/policies/ppm/3000/3010.html
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 11:39:22 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?

      Twitter isn't unique, they are written/typed words and should be legislated the same way any other written/typed words are, which, for the most part, are legislated the same way spoken words are. Also stop it with the term "offensive" this is in part what I'm talking about when I say I wonder if this conversation is happening in good faith. No one thinks you should be thrown out of school for offending someone. Using that very narrow language in one tweet made by someone in the heat of the moment is the same thing as limiting the conversation about Jaden to just the George Floyd tweet. This conversation is about figuring out what constitutes harassment.
      The conversation turned to the tweet:

      A lot of racist speech is threatening or harassing. I think Jaden's tweet comes pretty close to harassment.
      Then Rusty went on about how the tweet probably constitutes harassment.  Hence -- my question regarding twitter and offensive tweets.  I promise I'm not discussing any of this in bad faith.  I'm just trying to track the conversation as best I can.

      FTR, I do think Jaden giving a call to arms to his trolls in an effort to get them to brigade k-state students probably fits the definition of harassment.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
      Is a tweet of "I love looking at big tits in sundresses" specifically harrass a segment of the population?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 11:50:52 AM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.
      And that's where the disagreement is I guess -- I don't think anyone felt "harassed" by the tweet, at least not without taking an extreme view of what "harassment" is.  I think they came upon the tweet (likely via retweet through someone they follow) and felt offended (which makes sense, given that it was a very offensive tweet). 

      If McNeil tweeted that @ a black student, I think that's closer to harassment.  If McNeil walked up to a black student he didn't know and made that joke, then I think that's closer to harassment.  If he walked up to the same student every day and made that same joke, then I think it's pretty clear. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 09, 2020, 11:58:04 AM
      Honest question, do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive tweets are punishable by government institutions"?

      Why would that rule exist, people's tweets are their words? Why would tweets need to be separately legislated, speech already is?
      Twitter is a pretty unique medium, imo.  But I'll rephrase: Do you see any potential problems if there was a rule that said "offensive speech is punishable by government institutions," where "offensive speech" is defined broadly enough to include things like "offensive tweets"?

      Seems like a good rule, but only if MIR specifically is offended by the speech. Fragility, smdh.

      You're not nearly close to as clever as you think you are. I haven't said a goddamned thing about being offensive. I live for offending people like you who think that knowing the difference between being offended and being harassed is some erudite thought process.

      Stop harassing me.

      Iowa Code § 708.7 Harassment

      "A person commits harassment when, with intent to ... annoy ... another person, ... [c]ommunicates with another ... via electronic communication ... in a manner likely to cause the other person annoyance ...."
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 12:00:51 PM
      Is a tweet of "I love looking at big tits in sundresses" specifically harrass a segment of the population?

      I don't think so. If it was tweeted during mass riots related to big tits in sundresses, athletes were felt harassed to the point that they decide to just not play sports anymore, and the person who made the tweet organized and runs a hate group, I think I would reconsider, though.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 12:09:01 PM
      Or if Harvey Weinstein tweeted about tits in sundresses, that would be harassment.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 12:13:27 PM
      Is a tweet of "I love looking at big tits in sundresses" specifically harrass a segment of the population?

      I don't think so. If it was tweeted during mass riots related to big tits in sundresses, athletes were felt harassed to the point that they decide to just not play sports anymore, and the person who made the tweet organized and runs a hate group, I think I would reconsider, though.

      So because #metoo has fallen out of the media spotlight, it's no longer harassment? That's certainly an interesting argument.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
      Is a tweet of "I love looking at big tits in sundresses" specifically harrass a segment of the population?

      I don't think so. If it was tweeted during mass riots related to big tits in sundresses, athletes were felt harassed to the point that they decide to just not play sports anymore, and the person who made the tweet organized and runs a hate group, I think I would reconsider, though.

      So because #metoo has fallen out of the media spotlight, it's no longer harassment? That's certainly an interesting argument.

      The media doesn't have much to do with it. If you want to start an incel group, more power to you, but when you start tweeting about women, the women who know you are going to feel harassed.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 12:34:20 PM
      Are people who tweet that Jaden is a deplorable piece of crap harrasing him? (let's ignore the differences for public figures for the moment)
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
      Are people who tweet that Jaden is a deplorable piece of crap harrasing him? (let's ignore the differences for public figures for the moment)

      Some of them are. It's the problem with doing nothing. It encourages more bad behavior in retaliation.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 01:14:05 PM
      I'm loving lib7 today for looking at issues objectively and realizing that policy needs to work consistently in all cases, not just when it fits your personal ideology.   :cheers: 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
       :frown:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 01:21:05 PM
       :frown:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 01:21:35 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 01:24:28 PM
      I'm loving lib7 today for looking at issues objectively and realizing that policy needs to work consistently in all cases, not just when it fits your personal ideology.   :cheers:

      Isn't your finding that he, and not the people he is disagreeing, are being objective, fitting your personal ideology?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 01:25:38 PM
      You can't legislate morality

      Is there a law that doesn't legislate morality? Are you familiar with what laws are?

      The point, you ignoramus is that passing law does not make people act morally, if it did we would not have overcrowded prisons.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 09, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
      I'm loving lib7 today for looking at issues objectively and realizing that policy needs to work consistently in all cases, not just when it fits your personal ideology.   :cheers:

      Isn't your finding that he, and not the people he is disagreeing, are being objective, fitting your personal ideology?

      no
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 09, 2020, 01:27:09 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
      You can't legislate morality

      Is there a law that doesn't legislate morality? Are you familiar with what laws are?

      The point, you ignoramus is that passing law does not make people act morally, if it did we would not have overcrowded prisons.

      So is your point that we shouldn't have any laws, because some people won't follow them?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 01:55:03 PM
      I'm loving lib7 today for looking at issues objectively and realizing that policy needs to work consistently in all cases, not just when it fits your personal ideology.   :cheers:

      Isn't your finding that he, and not the people he is disagreeing, are being objective, fitting your personal ideology?

      no

      Didn't think so.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 09, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 09, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.
      so what does Jadens past tweets look like? is there a pattern of tweets that could reasonably be seen as offensive in a race perspective? i dont follow the kid and have no clue if this was a first offense or a repeated behavior. i am starting to come around to the idea that this kids past writings and speakings could create an entity that instills fear in others by his use of language which has been reflected by others who are racist.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 09, 2020, 02:24:22 PM
      He's not just a tweeter.

      https://www.irehr.org/2020/02/27/an-affinity-for-bigotry-jaden-mcneil-of-america-first-students/
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 09, 2020, 03:11:41 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.

      Exactly what I said on KSO awhile back.

      Good to see you channeling my brilliance.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 09, 2020, 03:17:07 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      To be fair, people in this thread were suggesting that he ought to be given the boot based on the tweet. 

      I don't really follow the non-bolded part of your post.  Obviously if Greg made the tweet it wouldn't gain as much traction or elicit the same response, largely because Greg doesn't have the notoriety on campus that McNeil has, and also doesn't have the already established reputation McNeil has.  We definitely agree there.  Help me get to the point you're making.  Is it the established pattern of McNeil's words and associations that warrant him being expelled?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 09, 2020, 03:52:34 PM
      Looking beyond The Tweet to the totality of McNeil's misdeeds, as summarized by Trim's article:

      Quote
      Among the significant new findings from McNeil’s brief activist history:

      Jaden McNeil has been involved with, not two, but four different participants in the murderous white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

      White nationalists provided even more guidance to McNeil in the formation of America First Students at Kansas State University than IREHR originally reported.

      McNeil was warned by conservative peers about aligning with a “Nazi” like Nick Fuentes, but chose to ignore the warnings.

      McNeil’s attendance at the Groyper Leadership Summit in December 2019, an event organized by white nationalists Nick Fuentes and Patrick Casey, has been further confirmed. McNeil is also scheduled to attend the white nationalist-organized America First Political Action Conference on February 28.

      McNeil has amplified white nationalists on social media, repeatedly sharing white nationalist content to his followers.

      McNeil interned with a “politically incorrect” podcast that was promoted by the founder of the Proud Boys. He also posted photos of himself flashing the “OK” hand signal at a political rally, a sign popularized by the Proud Boys, and designated a racist symbol by the Anti-Defamation League.

      McNeil made crude homophobic comments, calling the LGBTQ+ community “degenerates” and using an anti-LGBTQ+ slur during an interview. He has also expressed hostility towards diversity and immigrants.

      Replace "white nationalist" with "socialist" and you have a starkly similar list of offenses that were initially punishable in the early 20th century but eventually lead to the development of the First Amendment as we know it today. Replace "socialist" with "terrorist" and you see how these battles are playing out in the 21st century.

      Why do we as a society insist on protecting shitheads like Jaden? To protect shitheads like you (plural) and me. Your rights are my rights. That is why it is imperative that we protect the ability of others to hold and profess ideas that we hate; sometimes, we might hold and profess ideas that others hate.
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 07:13:04 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 09, 2020, 07:25:31 PM
      Were the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 09, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.
      I mean look at the similarities here: https://www.kstatecollegian.com/2017/10/17/students-social-media-post-referencing-kkk-sparks-online-outrage/

      I’d post gems if I weren’t on a phone. But there is ample evidence to believe this current situation is, indeed, mostly about one tweet.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 09, 2020, 09:48:55 PM
      do you guys ever say, "pass it, don't harass it"? 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 09, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
      We're the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?

      How do you define socialists?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 10, 2020, 09:19:02 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      To be fair, people in this thread were suggesting that he ought to be given the boot based on the tweet. 

      I don't really follow the non-bolded part of your post.  Obviously if Greg made the tweet it wouldn't gain as much traction or elicit the same response, largely because Greg doesn't have the notoriety on campus that McNeil has, and also doesn't have the already established reputation McNeil has.  We definitely agree there.  Help me get to the point you're making.  Is it the established pattern of McNeil's words and associations that warrant him being expelled?

      Yeah, like I said several times, it isn't about a tweet it's about a pattern of behavior that's surely to escalate.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 10, 2020, 09:28:21 PM
      People pretty clearly feel harassed by the tweet and Jayden pretty clearly doesn't care. I'm really not sure how one could come to the conclusion that the tweet wasn't intended to harass a specific segment of the population.

      While this is true, I feel like making what should have happened to Jaden about one tweet is a losing proposition, is a losing proposition and minimizing the magnitude of needing to protect minority students from harassment on the basis of their race. This will just be a never-ending cycle of whataboutism with theoretical tweets about god knows what. The larger conversation is more important, IMO, and talking about one tweet makes it very easy for most people to completely ignore the larger conversation.

      So MIR i'm sincerely asking you this in good faith, but what do you think should be done? What does justice being done on Jaden look like?

      He should have been expelled.

      My biggest problem with reducing this to one tweet is that, let's say it wasn't Jaden that tweeted that George Floyd tweet, but it was our buddy Greg. Does this shake out the way that it did? Does it get immediate traction? Does he double down? Does he ask his followers to retaliate against the athletes protesting or twitter accounts who lashed out at him for the tweet? Kansas State University has 22,000 students, what are the odds that Jaden is the only one of them that has either tweeted or retweeted something distasteful about BLM, or George Floyd, or Breonna Taylor, or any other black person killed by the police? Of course not, I'm sure It has happened since. The talking point that the university should acted on that tweet alone is incredibly frustrating, and even more frustrating that so many people are falling for this obvious shell game.
      I guess you don’t remember Kool Kats Klub girl.  To be fair, I wouldn’t expect you to since she had no sort of reputation or notoriety until she shared one bad racist joke. But rest assured, she was skewered even when there weren’t widespread protests about race going on in the background.

      Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

      This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: nicname on July 10, 2020, 09:31:18 PM
      do you guys ever say, "pass it, don't harass it"?

      About a blunt? Probably at least once.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 10, 2020, 09:36:11 PM
      Were the socialists of earlier times celebrating the deaths of others based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that is part of the basic identity of those around them?

      I honestly didn't get spracne's point, but he certainty wasn't comparing socialism to white nationalism, that would be astronomically absurd.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 10, 2020, 09:48:30 PM

      Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

      This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

      It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

      Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

      Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 10, 2020, 09:50:38 PM

      Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

      This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

      It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

      Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

      Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.

      You missed the point, that's okay, it was a long post. I have summarized it in one sentence about a dozen times in this thread, but whatever.

      You can't possibly think that "Jaden has actually been treated better." The guy had an entire university athletic department protesting his existence, KKK girl had some people mad on twitter for a weekend.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: nicname on July 10, 2020, 09:59:12 PM
      While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 10, 2020, 10:14:22 PM

      Yes, I remember. It affirms that the outcry about Jaden isn't about one tweet or one off color picture. She was even convinced not to quit school. If jaden threatened to quit the administration would open Anderson Hall up at 3:30 AM on a Sunday to expunge his record.

      This dude is a disease, the university found the herpes after a particularly bad flare up and decided to let it play itself out without taking penicillin.

      It really doesn’t reaffirm your point. That girl caught the same flack despite immediately and repeatedly apologizing, and folks were voicing the same concerns about the comfort level of minorities at KSU. The most obvious distinction is the fact that Jaden’s tweet came in the midst (if not the apex) of a worldwide reform movement, which prompted a much stronger push against the university as well as a much stronger response.

      Looking back at KKK girl, I feel like Jaden has actually been treated better so far simply because he’s viewed as a threat.

      Conservatives and progressives have dug into a tribal culture where you’re much more likely to get railroaded if you don’t have allies.

      You missed the point, that's okay, it was a long post. I have summarized it in one sentence about a dozen times in this thread, but whatever.

      You can't possibly think that "Jaden has actually been treated better." The guy had an entire university athletic department protesting his existence, KKK girl had some people mad on twitter for a weekend.
      *Protesting his existence for a few days.

      The AD is now ok with him staying as a student but you’re still calling for his head.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 10, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
      While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

      The social media backlash wasn't similar either. The engagement of his each of his tweets are in the thousands. The George Floyd tweet had well over 20,000 replies before it was taken down.

      BTW, he's still antagonizing the university and students on the campus and bringing his lunatic followers right along with them. These are the same people who sent a noose tweet to Chrisianna Carr. There is no way this ends well, Dick Myers will have the inevitable unfortunate incident on his hands, he'll get to retire and no one will care.

      Invalid Tweet ID
      Invalid Tweet ID
      Invalid Tweet ID
      Also this dude really hates the cheeto. Also TIL jaden has me blocked, I had to use a burner account to see his tweets.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: kashi1965 on July 11, 2020, 12:57:27 PM
      While the public (social media) backlash may have been similar, the difference in action from the administration in the two cases is noteworthy.

      The social media backlash wasn't similar either. The engagement of his each of his tweets are in the thousands. The George Floyd tweet had well over 20,000 replies before it was taken down.

      BTW, he's still antagonizing the university and students on the campus and bringing his lunatic followers right along with them. These are the same people who sent a noose tweet to Chrisianna Carr. There is no way this ends well, Dick Myers will have the inevitable unfortunate incident on his hands, he'll get to retire and no one will care.

      Invalid Tweet ID
      Invalid Tweet ID
      Invalid Tweet ID
      Also this dude really hates the cheeto. Also TIL jaden has me blocked, I had to use a burner account to see his tweets.
      just checked his twitter account. i'm not sure how anyone couldn't agree he is antagonizing a lot of people. it may not be all directed at ksu students but he does respond to KSU related accounts among others.  and as stated previously when he responds to someone all his rodents follow up with subsequent harassment as well. HE's a piece of crap and we need to find a way to get rid of him
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 11, 2020, 11:40:44 PM
      Our sister school Harvard just unaccepted 10 students for being pieces of crap on social media
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 12, 2020, 06:45:21 AM
      Nice


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 12, 2020, 11:39:33 AM

      Racism is actually illegal in England, novel concept, huh. In America you're allowed to grow your racist platform, because some nebulous words written by slave owners 230 years ago.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 12, 2020, 01:10:41 PM
      I mean that sure seems actionable in the States as well.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 12, 2020, 01:18:29 PM
      I mean that sure seems actionable in the States as well.
      Maybe for the threatening to show up but not anything else.

      And arresting a 12 year old seems a tad extreme.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 12, 2020, 02:45:59 PM

      Racism is actually illegal in England, novel concept, huh. In America you're allowed to grow your racist platform, because some nebulous words written by slave owners 230 years ago.


      Without addressing this particular instance of racism and how it might hypothetically play out in America, you are correct that the First Amendment is indeed exceptional among Western democracies. There's even a scholarly term for this phenomenon--First Amendment Exceptionalism. Here's a good comparative constitutional law article outlining the subject: https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=mlr

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on July 13, 2020, 09:56:19 PM
      A 12 year old shouldn't have access to social media of any kind, and parents should be held responsible for their children's post if they do allow them to post.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 14, 2020, 08:56:48 AM
      12 year olds also shouldn't be racist pieces of crap and probably wouldn't be if their parents didn't teach them to be that way.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 14, 2020, 09:11:07 AM
      12 year olds also shouldn't be racist pieces of crap and probably wouldn't be if their parents didn't teach them to be that way.
      12 year old kids aren't that good about thinking for themselves. Either the parents are openly racist or the kid's friends are (because of their parents).
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on July 14, 2020, 09:40:10 AM
      12 year olds also shouldn't be racist pieces of crap and probably wouldn't be if their parents didn't teach them to be that way.

      Yes, or they are learning it on social media. Either way,  it's irresponsible for a 12 year old to be using social media.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 14, 2020, 09:49:56 AM
      It's a 12yr old edge lord going for shock value and attention
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 14, 2020, 10:09:09 AM
      Or just being a stupid idiot thinking he’s funny. (Maybe that’s the same thing.)

      I don’t think a 12 year old should face punitive prison/jail time for really anything. I could really only see it if they are legitimately considered a threat to public safety, which would rule out pretty much all the keyboard warriors/racists.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 14, 2020, 10:42:31 AM
      Clearly none of you have played COD online if you think 12 year olds are picking up negative traits from either their parents or friend's parents.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 14, 2020, 10:49:05 AM
      I was playing a crap ton of sports when I was 12 and behaved myself.  :cyclist:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: bucket on July 14, 2020, 11:28:02 AM
      Clearly none of you have played COD online if you think 12 year olds are picking up negative traits from either their parents or friend's parents.

      In my experience the 12 year olds are the worst and most racist.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 14, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
      Or just being a stupid idiot thinking he’s funny. (Maybe that’s the same thing.)

      I don’t think a 12 year old should face punitive prison/jail time for really anything. I could really only see it if they are legitimately considered a threat to public safety, which would rule out pretty much all the keyboard warriors/racists.

      I think community service every weekend for 2 years would be about right.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 14, 2020, 11:45:22 PM
      I mean that sure seems actionable in the States as well.
      Maybe for the threatening to show up but not anything else.

      And arresting a 12 year old seems a tad extreme.

      They take that stuff seriously over there. Generally when someone gets arrested for publicly being racist, they get community service, I can't imagine how this will be different.

      Or just being a stupid idiot thinking he’s funny. (Maybe that’s the same thing.)

      I don’t think a 12 year old should face punitive prison/jail time for really anything. I could really only see it if they are legitimately considered a threat to public safety, which would rule out pretty much all the keyboard warriors/racists.

      Being a threat to public safety isn't the standard for charging people for racial abuse over there. He's not going to jail, but he should be punished for breaking the law. 12 year olds absolutely know what racism is, their targets, whether it's a classmate or a professional football star, certainly knows what racism is.

      In this country we seem to soft pedal and easily forgive racism, without regard for the need of the offender to learn hard lessons about their actions or without considerations of the victims of the abuse. One of my children, when she was seven was told by a classmate, "shut up or I'll make you pick cotton." Do you think my kid cared whether or not this boy learned it from his parents or not? By the way, the administration just made excuses for the kid and there were no repercussions, this was with my wife teaching in the same building.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 15, 2020, 08:29:20 AM
      If the 7 year old hit your kid would you have been calling for him to be arrested?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 15, 2020, 08:25:23 PM
      If the 7 year old hit your kid would you have been calling for him to be arrested?

      No, what in the world does that have to do with anything?
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 15, 2020, 10:13:30 PM
      Because your anecdote about verbal abuse was in response to two comments about arresting children being excessive?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 16, 2020, 12:08:47 AM
      Because your anecdote about verbal abuse was in response to two comments about arresting children being excessive?

      I doubt a simple arrest over there is the violent, potentially deadly act that it is over here.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 17, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
      Because your anecdote about verbal abuse was in response to two comments about arresting children being excessive?

      I doubt a simple arrest over there is the violent, potentially deadly act that it is over here.

      The kid is going to get community service and cops there don't have guns, so yeah, the kid wasn't in danger of getting Tamar Rice'd.

      My actual issue with catastrophe's question is that he seems to think that a 7 year old should be held to the same behavioral standards as a 12 year old, that's laughably ignorant.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 17, 2020, 10:11:52 PM
      MIR, we were talking about arresting 12 year olds being excessive and you responded with a story about the school going soft on a 7 year old.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 19, 2020, 04:15:27 PM
      MIR, we were talking about arresting 12 year olds being excessive and you responded with a story about the school going soft on a 7 year old.

      Yeah, in response to some of you trying to act like a 12 year old should be absolved of responsibility of breaking the law, in this case being racist. I'm guessing most of you wouldn't feel the same if this 12 year old stole an Xbox.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 19, 2020, 05:19:04 PM
      MIR, we were talking about arresting 12 year olds being excessive and you responded with a story about the school going soft on a 7 year old.

      Yeah, in response to some of you trying to act like a 12 year old should be absolved of responsibility of breaking the law, in this case being racist. I'm guessing most of you wouldn't feel the same if this 12 year old stole an Xbox.


      congrats Mir, you are now the worst person in the world.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 19, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
      MIR, we were talking about arresting 12 year olds being excessive and you responded with a story about the school going soft on a 7 year old.

      Yeah, in response to some of you trying to act like a 12 year old should be absolved of responsibility of breaking the law, in this case being racist. I'm guessing most of you wouldn't feel the same if this 12 year old stole an Xbox.


      congrats Mir, you are now the worst person in the world.

       :confused:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 21, 2020, 01:18:41 PM
      Harassment is harassment, regardless of if it's "hey coon", "hey fattie", "hey towelhead", or whatever. Applying a racial component does not negate the harassment. I honestly have no idea how you came to think that's my belief.

      Is the line you're trying to draw here is it's only harassment if the repeated taunts are directed to one solitary person instead of a group of people? Or are you attempting to say that tweets should have a different standard than spoken word?

      Well I very much disagree there
      The EEOC explicitly calls out offensive jokes. I realize the EEOC doesn't have jurisdiction here but it's a pretty clear definition.

      https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment



      And that goes back to our initial disagreement that the university has any responsibility to shield students (adults) from speech they don't like, particularly when it doesn't even happen on campus.

      Also, I truly do not understand the not feeling safe because of this guy being enrolled. I don't mean that to be dismissive at all. I try to look though other people's eyes to understand their perspective and it's just not clicking here. To me, the jaden dude is in far more danger from the student body as a whole than any student is in danger from him.



      Personally I don't think there is anything to solve. Racist speech should not be punished by the government.

      Why not?



      Because I believe that freedom of speech is the cornerstone of a free society. Yes, there are some pretty specific limitations mostly dealing with breaking the law. I understand that you want to file racism in that category as well but it comes dangerously close to thought crime and that's just not something I can support.

      If a person is being threatening or harrasing, that's a different discussion.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 21, 2020, 01:33:32 PM
      Let me try this from a different direction, this all started because you feel racist speech should be illegal. Is there any circumstance that (you feel) racist speech should not be against the law?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 21, 2020, 02:07:17 PM
      To answer your question though, yes targeting and repetition make a harassment case stronger. I don't know that without targeting you could make a legal case.  As for what if's, I don't really know what the absolute line is. Wearing a swastika shirt to class every day would rise to some level of learning disruption for other students and I I'm honestly split. If it's a guy wearing a swastika shirt walking down Moro everyday, then I'm absolutely certain that I don't want any legal consequences for that behavior. If that same guy is walking down Moro and comments "another coon" any time he passes a black person, well I really don't know what to do about that the same as I don't know what to do about someone pointing out all the overweight people with "another fattie".

      Tweets are slightly different in that they are more of a public forum (the Moro sidewalk), but can also be used much more personally. I don't necessarily think they should be held to a different standard, but it should also be acknowledged that no one is forced to see your tweets (unless @'d).
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 21, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
      To answer your first question/post. Race, like gender are protected classes under the law already (weight obviously is not). If your default is to have a broad interpretation of what racist language should be protected then you are essentially allowing for all racist language should be protected. Yes, I think the scope of what racist language is allowed should be significantly narrowed. Almost all racist language, by nature can very credibly be viewed as threatening. If you don't think that students should be able to attend a public university without being subjected to racism, I don't know the circumstance in which you won't allow it, which is unacceptable because there are plenty of cases of where racism is not legal.

      No, I can't think of a single case where racist language either isn't intentionally isn't used to intimidate or wouldn't be reasonably deemed threatening. The history of racism in the world is overwhelmingly violent. Should we just ignore that because you (general) are scared that someone will try to get you arrested or fired for saying that Beyonce is ugly and a shitty singer?

      Hope I answered your question, I may not have.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 21, 2020, 03:44:48 PM
      In this very thread (I think it was) you defended your right to call posters on this board honkey, so I have to think you think some racist speech is acceptable.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 21, 2020, 03:50:16 PM
      In this very thread (I think it was) you defended your right to call posters on this board honkey, so I have to think you think some racist speech is acceptable.

      you could argue that's prejudiced but not racist

      the argument being

      racism = prejudice + power
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 21, 2020, 04:21:40 PM
      it wouldn't make it any more desirable
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 21, 2020, 04:49:22 PM
      To answer your first question/post. Race, like gender are protected classes under the law already (weight obviously is not). If your default is to have a broad interpretation of what racist language should be protected then you are essentially allowing for all racist language should be protected. Yes, I think the scope of what racist language is allowed should be significantly narrowed. Almost all racist language, by nature can very credibly be viewed as threatening. If you don't think that students should be able to attend a public university without being subjected to racism, I don't know the circumstance in which you won't allow it, which is unacceptable because there are plenty of cases of where racism is not legal.

      No, I can't think of a single case where racist language either isn't intentionally isn't used to intimidate or wouldn't be reasonably deemed threatening. The history of racism in the world is overwhelmingly violent. Should we just ignore that because you (general) are scared that someone will try to get you arrested or fired for saying that Beyonce is ugly and a shitty singer?

      Hope I answered your question, I may not have.

      I have always agreed with the statement "you do not have the right to not be offended" and i don't think i will ever change my mind on that. However, i do believe that you have the right to not be threatened. I think the problem is that in the vast majority of instances there is so much gray area between offended and threatened there is no way it could possibly be legislated.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 21, 2020, 04:51:27 PM
      A lot of racist language is merely offensive to me, but threatening to others.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on July 21, 2020, 04:56:12 PM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 21, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You ask The Reasonable Man how he would feel.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 21, 2020, 06:52:33 PM
      i've been going to the reasonable man festive for years but this year's has been cancelled because of covid   :lol:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 21, 2020, 10:25:14 PM
      In this very thread (I think it was) you defended your right to call posters on this board honkey, so I have to think you think some racist speech is acceptable.

      you could argue that's prejudiced but not racist

      the argument being

      racism = prejudice + power

      Thank you. I knew exactly where this was going to lead, and I've been waiting for it.

      By the way I don't ever believe I've defended my right to call anyone a honkey, cracker, or peckerwood. It doesn't need to be defended any more than calling someone an idiot or a dumb ass, or a fat headed freak.

      7, I don't actually hope that you don't think calling someone a cracker does or should carry the same weight as calling someone an actual racial slur. You know those that only mean one thing, those that are abhorrent in every context. The argument you seem to be making is akin to calling nude statues pornography. I'm trying to be patient here, but you couldn't have a more privileged viewpoint on this if you tried. You keep trying to divorce the violent history of racism in this country from this conversation. It's important to establishing why using this language shouldn't be legally tolerated.

      The ability to use the word honkey has never and will never be used to rally people to commit acts of violence against others like words like n-word, spic, kike, chink, etc.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 21, 2020, 10:36:33 PM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 22, 2020, 08:00:21 AM
       Racism is a belief system, not an action, so power is not required. Jesus Christ people. It may not have teeth (yet) if a powerless person has a racist belief system, but it's still rough ridin' racism. GTFO with the critical race bullshit
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 22, 2020, 08:46:53 AM
      Racism is a belief system, not an action, so power is not required. Jesus Christ people. It may not have teeth (yet) if a powerless person has a racist belief system, but it's still rough ridin' racism. GTFO with the critical race bullshit

      I'll acknowledge the definition isn't perfect, but it isn't something I came up with. It's a fairly common definition. (and I probably should have added "structural" power)

      https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/11/merriam-webster-racism-definition-revise-kennedy-mitchum


      this is also a good listen

      https://www.npr.org/2019/07/18/742981792/why-do-some-trump-supporters-avoid-the-word-racist-one-expert-explains
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 22, 2020, 08:52:37 AM
      So the most dyed in the wool hardcore nazi is no longer a racist in Israel. Cool.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 22, 2020, 09:01:22 AM
      So the most dyed in the wool hardcore nazi is no longer a racist in Israel. Cool.

      No, that person would be anti-Semitic. :gocho:

      but seriously, it's an interesting scenario. I think due to the history and global balance of power Jews are not fully "in power" like whites in America are. I'd suggest reading more, you seem uncomfortable and unwilling to think a little more deeply about things.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 22, 2020, 09:10:11 AM
      So the most dyed in the wool hardcore nazi is no longer a racist in Israel. Cool.

      No, that person would be anti-Semitic. :gocho:

      but seriously, it's an interesting scenario. I think due to the history and global balance of power Jews are not fully "in power" like whites in America are. I'd suggest reading more, you seem uncomfortable and unwilling to think a little more deeply about things.
      From my perspective, you're actually defending racism. Hatred of a human, solely due to their race, is racism. It's dangerous in all forms, all they need is a gun or a home made bomb to prove me right. To say otherwise only gives the green light to a group of people to form racist thoughts.

      If you want to argue that currently, in the US, white racism is more dangerous than a POC's racism against white people? I would agree.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 22, 2020, 09:40:57 AM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?

      So what's your stance on the Nation of Islam and their doctrine?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 22, 2020, 12:08:52 PM
      People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson.

      speaking as someone who had an actual 1980's michael jackson beat it jacket, in the 1980's, i should have been arrested because i was a smooth rough ridin' criminal
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: star seed 7 on July 22, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
      In this very thread (I think it was) you defended your right to call posters on this board honkey, so I have to think you think some racist speech is acceptable.

      you could argue that's prejudiced but not racist

      the argument being

      racism = prejudice + power

      Thank you. I knew exactly where this was going to lead, and I've been waiting for it.

      By the way I don't ever believe I've defended my right to call anyone a honkey, cracker, or peckerwood. It doesn't need to be defended any more than calling someone an idiot or a dumb ass, or a fat headed freak.

      7, I don't actually hope that you don't think calling someone a cracker does or should carry the same weight as calling someone an actual racial slur. You know those that only mean one thing, those that are abhorrent in every context. The argument you seem to be making is akin to calling nude statues pornography. I'm trying to be patient here, but you couldn't have a more privileged viewpoint on this if you tried. You keep trying to divorce the violent history of racism in this country from this conversation. It's important to establishing why using this language shouldn't be legally tolerated.

      The ability to use the word honkey has never and will never be used to rally people to commit acts of violence against others like words like n-word, spic, kike, chink, etc.

      No, I don't think honkey, etc is equivalent. On a 7 point racist speech scale it's a .1, but it still is on the scale. I honestly wasn't trying to do a gotcha or call you a hypocrite.

      I don't think we are going to find common ground on this, but I do think it's an interesting viewpoint that has given me more thought on the issue. I read a variety of political bbs's and this is the first time I've seen someone advocate for it in the US.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: chum1 on July 22, 2020, 12:47:39 PM
      Was the butt spin an actual break dancing move or just, like, kind of a joke people made?
      Title: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 22, 2020, 01:40:12 PM
      So the most dyed in the wool hardcore nazi is no longer a racist in Israel. Cool.

      No, that person would be anti-Semitic. :gocho:

      but seriously, it's an interesting scenario. I think due to the history and global balance of power Jews are not fully "in power" like whites in America are. I'd suggest reading more, you seem uncomfortable and unwilling to think a little more deeply about things.
      From my perspective, you're actually defending racism. Hatred of a human, solely due to their race, is racism. It's dangerous in all forms, all they need is a gun or a home made bomb to prove me right. To say otherwise only gives the green light to a group of people to form racist thoughts.

      If you want to argue that currently, in the US, white racism is more dangerous than a POC's racism against white people? I would agree.
      Mich’s definition of racism is pretty well accepted, but that doesn’t make it a good lens for determining how we should regulate/condemn speech. If anything it highlights the problems with having a law that prohibits “racist” speech.

      It is, however, very useful for appreciating why prejudice against minorities is particularly problematic vs prejudice generally.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 22, 2020, 02:00:49 PM
      Mich’s definition of racism is pretty well accepted, but that doesn’t make it a good lens for determining how we should regulate/condemn speech. If anything it highlights the problems with having a law that prohibits “racist” speech.
      I don't think that definition of racism is "well accepted" at all.  I think a lot of people would argue (including myself) that someone can do or say something racist, regardless of whether or not that someone (or his demographic) has any power at all.

      I think Mich's definition has more to do with the concept of institutional racism -- which (at least from my understanding) is a more particularized form of the umbrella term "racism."
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on July 22, 2020, 02:04:03 PM
      (it's not my definition)
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 22, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
      (it's not my definition)
      lol fair enough.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 22, 2020, 03:11:29 PM
      Mich’s definition of racism is pretty well accepted, but that doesn’t make it a good lens for determining how we should regulate/condemn speech. If anything it highlights the problems with having a law that prohibits “racist” speech.
      I don't think that definition of racism is "well accepted" at all.  I think a lot of people would argue (including myself) that someone can do or say something racist, regardless of whether or not that someone (or his demographic) has any power at all.

      I think Mich's definition has more to do with the concept of institutional racism -- which (at least from my understanding) is a more particularized form of the umbrella term "racism."

      Yeah sure but that distinction isn’t all that important cause you’re just saying all racial prejudice is racist. As long as you understand that your “institutional racism” equals my “racism” then it doesn’t need to slow down whatever conversation we’re having about race.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 22, 2020, 04:24:10 PM
      Mich’s definition of racism is pretty well accepted, but that doesn’t make it a good lens for determining how we should regulate/condemn speech. If anything it highlights the problems with having a law that prohibits “racist” speech.
      I don't think that definition of racism is "well accepted" at all.  I think a lot of people would argue (including myself) that someone can do or say something racist, regardless of whether or not that someone (or his demographic) has any power at all.

      I think Mich's definition has more to do with the concept of institutional racism -- which (at least from my understanding) is a more particularized form of the umbrella term "racism."

      Yeah sure but that distinction isn’t all that important cause you’re just saying all racial prejudice is racist. As long as you understand that your “institutional racism” equals my “racism” then it doesn’t need to slow down whatever conversation we’re having about race.
      But it does slow it down, imo, because we have different definitions of the same thing and that thing is what's trying to be combated.  If we're drafting a law that prohibits "racist speech" then it's important to understand what "racist speech" contemplates. 

      I don't think "racist speech" should be prohibited but I also especially don't think we should prohibit (or legally define/apply) "racist speech" as contingent on the race of the listener or speaker.  A law like that would seem racially discriminatory on its face.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 22, 2020, 04:26:26 PM
      Yeah, I mean, that’s what I said.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 22, 2020, 04:52:01 PM
      Yeah, I mean, that’s what I said.
      I see what you're saying now.  Long day.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 22, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
      I'm not gonna sit around this thread all day while you smart guys insinuate MIR's point of view is dumb
       :buh-bye:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Spracne on July 22, 2020, 05:57:06 PM
      I'm not gonna sit around this thread all day while you smart guys insinuate MIR's point of view is dumb
       :buh-bye:

      Oh boy. You're really gonna get it. Roundabout 2:30 A.M. or so.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 22, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
      2:30 is when the honkey tonks let out
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 22, 2020, 10:46:45 PM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?

      So what's your stance on the Nation of Islam and their doctrine?

      The fact that you feel the need to ask me this question, I'm guessing this is some kind of gotcha, shows that this conversation isn't suitable for you. Maybe listen more. If it wasn't so basic, essentially asking me about anti-Semitism, I'd be offended.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 22, 2020, 10:48:09 PM
      People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson.

      speaking as someone who had an actual 1980's michael jackson beat it jacket, in the 1980's, i should have been arrested because i was a smooth rough ridin' criminal

       :dance:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DaBigTrain on July 22, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
      I was born in the '80's but lol

      :cyclist:
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 22, 2020, 10:49:25 PM
      Was the butt spin an actual break dancing move or just, like, kind of a joke people made?

      When done well, yeah. You never saw the breakin' movies?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: chum1 on July 22, 2020, 11:10:56 PM
      Was the butt spin an actual break dancing move or just, like, kind of a joke people made?

      When done well, yeah. You never saw the breakin' movies?

      It's been a LONG time.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 23, 2020, 06:53:11 AM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?

      So what's your stance on the Nation of Islam and their doctrine?

      The fact that you feel the need to ask me this question, I'm guessing this is some kind of gotcha, shows that this conversation isn't suitable for you. Maybe listen more. If it wasn't so basic, essentially asking me about anti-Semitism, I'd be offended.

      It's not just anti-Semitism. It's also their promotion of racial segregation, anti-LGBT, and black supremacy. But I can understand why you'd want to dodge this question considering your viewpoints on free speech would have all these black people thrown into jail.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 23, 2020, 09:33:33 AM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?

      So what's your stance on the Nation of Islam and their doctrine?

      The fact that you feel the need to ask me this question, I'm guessing this is some kind of gotcha, shows that this conversation isn't suitable for you. Maybe listen more. If it wasn't so basic, essentially asking me about anti-Semitism, I'd be offended.

      It's not just anti-Semitism. It's also their promotion of racial segregation, anti-LGBT, and black supremacy. But I can understand why you'd want to dodge this question considering your viewpoints on free speech would have all these black people thrown into jail.

      Farrakhan's a prophet and I think you ought to listen to what he can say to you, what you ought to do.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on July 23, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
      such an incredible album, best song imo:  black steel in the hour of chaos
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 23, 2020, 12:48:16 PM
      i agree 100%. so who gets to be the standard bearer? Is there a standard or is the only requirement that someone says they feel threatened? Beyond that, how do you prove an emotion in a court of law?

      You don't have to prove emotion, that's a fool's errand, and frankly an impossible standard that we don't apply to other laws regarding language, intent is the standard.

      You don't have to actually be scared if someone tells you they are going to shoot you in the head. You're not exempt from punishment if you scream fire in a crowded movie theatre and everyone isn't scared. Perjury is still perjury even if you profess that you're telling a joke.

      I've showed you all in this thread that other countries, even whiter than this one, have laws against hate speech on the books, and it's enforced. People aren't walking around on pins and needles wondering if they're going to get arrested for dressing up like 1980's Michael Jackson. I'm really wondering what the hesitation is. Is it that difficult to legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America?

      So what's your stance on the Nation of Islam and their doctrine?

      The fact that you feel the need to ask me this question, I'm guessing this is some kind of gotcha, shows that this conversation isn't suitable for you. Maybe listen more. If it wasn't so basic, essentially asking me about anti-Semitism, I'd be offended.

      It's not just anti-Semitism. It's also their promotion of racial segregation, anti-LGBT, and black supremacy. But I can understand why you'd want to dodge this question considering your viewpoints on free speech would have all these black people thrown into jail.

      Yes, because my views on LGBT rights and segregation are within question for anyone who've read more than three of any message board post I've ever had. What the eff is your point? Did I say that black people can't be racist or have abhorrent views? eff outta here with this stupidity.

      You're actually too stupid to understand that you don't nor should get thrown in jail for everything that's illegal. Go rough ridin' read a book and stop making this conversation dumber.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 23, 2020, 03:22:51 PM
       :lol: such a unique combination of goal post moving, scattered arguments, racist, authoritarian, and crazy.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: PurpleOil on July 23, 2020, 07:55:34 PM
      I was just trying to determine if MIR could walk us through his train of thought on how we could

      Quote from: MakeItRain
      legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America


      It wasn't a gotcha question. I seriously wanted to see these mental gymnastics. Instead he just threw a tantrum.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Dr Rick Daris on July 23, 2020, 08:11:20 PM
      such an incredible album, best song imo:  black steel in the hour of chaos

      Probably. Most hilarious/enjoyable is cold lampin though. That whole thing is just absurd/funny.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 23, 2020, 09:32:48 PM
      I was just trying to determine if MIR could walk us through his train of thought on how we could

      Quote from: MakeItRain
      legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America


      It wasn't a gotcha question. I seriously wanted to see these mental gymnastics. Instead he just threw a tantrum.

      I asked you two different questions, dipshit. Don't worry about it, you're no different than cat27, I'm not going to bother with having conversations with people acting in bad faith.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: catastrophe on July 24, 2020, 10:58:05 AM
      I was just trying to determine if MIR could walk us through his train of thought on how we could

      Quote from: MakeItRain
      legislate even the slightest bit of decency in America


      It wasn't a gotcha question. I seriously wanted to see these mental gymnastics. Instead he just threw a tantrum.
      We have already successfully legislated decency! Thanks for your question and go cats.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on July 27, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
      Greg, get on this thing and then have gE do your work on revising the conduct code.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on July 27, 2020, 03:43:26 PM
      yes, do that
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on July 30, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
      https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29565299/ncaa-allow-uniform-patches-social-justice-causes

      Other than getting confused and thinking that the athletes can just write individual messages on their jerseys, KSO is being surprisingly measured about this.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: DQ12 on July 30, 2020, 10:37:02 PM
      https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29565299/ncaa-allow-uniform-patches-social-justice-causes

      Other than getting confused and thinking that the athletes can just write individual messages on their jerseys, KSO is being surprisingly measured about this.
      It's a cool idea. 
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on July 31, 2020, 07:27:44 AM
      This could wreck my ability to know who is who (for many) on the football field. I never remember numbers lol.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KST8FAN on August 01, 2020, 10:00:18 PM
      https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-players-threaten-to-sit-out-2020-season-over-safety-racial-injustice-concerns-per-report/


      Tom

      Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on August 02, 2020, 08:37:51 AM
      https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-players-threaten-to-sit-out-2020-season-over-safety-racial-injustice-concerns-per-report/


      Tom

      Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

      Gonna be interesting
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: steve dave on August 02, 2020, 08:39:37 AM
      That’s not a big ask tbh


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on August 02, 2020, 08:41:40 AM
      That’s not a big ask tbh


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      The revenue share seems big. And it all probably seems big to the NCAA
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on August 02, 2020, 08:57:50 AM
      And I was going to say this night be the nail in the coffin for Larry Scott but if he's made it this far I don't know that it will have much effect.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on August 02, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
      Funny that the players’ take cake in players tribune form, after that is/was a pac 12 pr partner.

      Tons of journalism indignation and masturbation here that could also go in the persecution/heroism thread.

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on August 02, 2020, 11:00:24 AM
      No article has been able to identify just how many players are a part of this PAC-12 thing.  The CBS article waits until the last paragraph to note that they really don't rough ridin' know.

      https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-football-schedule-2020-league-split-between-12-game-10-game-options-for-this-season/


      Quote
      While the story published by The Players Tribune does not specify how many players are involved, one anonymous staff member at a Pac-12 program told ESPN the group could consist of hundreds of players from several different Pac-12 schools.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sys on August 02, 2020, 12:39:46 PM
      That’s not a big ask tbh

      there are like 10 things on that list that are either completely off the wall or against ncaa regs.  there's no possibility of even compromising on anything close to that list.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: sys on August 02, 2020, 12:41:04 PM
      which is good, btw.  now the pac 12 can just make an early decision to cancel the season.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on August 02, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on August 02, 2020, 05:38:08 PM

      I look forward to Kirk Shulz's comments about his university's athletic department approach to this issue.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Katpappy on August 02, 2020, 06:04:03 PM
      OT, but explains how important football is to the P5.  Seems like they are about to tell the NCAA to kiss their ass goodbye.

      "The TV ratings of those games is the answer to your question," Carparelli said. "The average bowl game rates higher than the best regular-season college basketball games. That's a fact."

      This in a way explains how important a basketball power like KU is to P5 football.  Kind of like a tick on a dog's ass.   
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on August 02, 2020, 08:35:12 PM

      Oof, this is going to get ugly.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on August 02, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
      They do their most mumped up thing ever AFTER running Leach?
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: wetwillie on August 02, 2020, 09:27:59 PM
      Is basketball the only sport with 4 year guarantees? Regardless how tone deaf do you have to be to kick a player off the team in this environment for standing up for themselves.   I can’t imagine a coaching staff surviving that.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: pissclams on August 02, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
      scholarships in basketball are a semester by semester deal, although schools can decide to go longer than that and offer school year length I guess
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on August 03, 2020, 02:23:31 AM
      Is basketball the only sport with 4 year guarantees? Regardless how tone deaf do you have to be to kick a player off the team in this environment for standing up for themselves.   I can’t imagine a coaching staff surviving that.

      No college sport has a multi year guarantee, it's why the national letter of intent program is so completely rough ridin' foul
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Katpappy on August 03, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
      Is basketball the only sport with 4 year guarantees? Regardless how tone deaf do you have to be to kick a player off the team in this environment for standing up for themselves.   I can’t imagine a coaching staff surviving that.

      No college sport has a multi year guarantee, it's why the national letter of intent program is so completely rough ridin' foul

      The fact they can pull a scholarship from these players is a very good reason they should be able to transfer to another school without permission or penalty.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on August 03, 2020, 03:17:53 PM
      No one has any real idea how many PAC-12 players are involved in this hold out thing, do they?  I'm buying the unsubstantiated numbers being thrown around by reporters.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on August 03, 2020, 03:21:34 PM
      No one has any real idea how many PAC-12 players are involved in this hold out thing, do they?  I'm buying the unsubstantiated numbers being thrown around by reporters.

      https://theundefeated.com/features/pac-12-followed-the-money-and-found-a-movement/

      Quote
      “I feel like we’ve built a base of 200-300 leaders,” Cooper said. “And now, all of those leaders are empowered with the information and inform their teammates to join this as well.”

      “There’s technically not one person running the show,” said Washington State’s Dallas Hobbs. “It’s a collective of people who really want to create change in their school, but around the whole Pac-12.”

      The group chat now has 400 members. One of the members, Treyjohn Butler of Stanford, started communicating with players around the country in July about their schools’ commitment to social justice after the killing of George Floyd. “We wanted to speak up about social injustice at first and felt our schools were silent,” Butler said. “Schools posted about Black Lives Matter and called it a day.”

      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on January 07, 2021, 11:48:04 PM
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on January 08, 2021, 12:22:03 AM
      I hope they didn't kick him out for that when they wouldn't this summer, hopefully the hoe just dropped out.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: KITNfury on January 08, 2021, 07:10:35 AM
      I hope they didn't kick him out for that when they wouldn't this summer, hopefully the hoe just dropped out.
      I'm guessing he got PI'ed until he quit. No inside source.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: joda on January 08, 2021, 07:58:56 AM
      Did you all see the dumbass coach from UChatt? I’m not able to go digging for it right now but he had to either think he was on his burner account or was trying to get fired.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: ChiComCat on January 08, 2021, 08:50:24 AM
      Did you all see the dumbass coach from UChatt? I’m not able to go digging for it right now but he had to either think he was on his burner account or was trying to get fired.

      I think he was just pretty sure that coup was going to work
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on January 08, 2021, 02:39:23 PM
      Did you all see the dumbass coach from UChatt? I’m not able to go digging for it right now but he had to either think he was on his burner account or was trying to get fired.

      Yeah, lol. They fired him quickly. My thing is if that dude feels so strongly about Stacey Adams, and those like her, how was he able to keep his feelings quiet around these dudes he spends so much time with?

      Also the Baylor O line coach got fired because there are black face photos of him from when he played at Auburn. They are on thedirty.com from years ago.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on January 08, 2021, 02:52:13 PM

      Holy crap, did that same idiot actually go participate in the mob in DC?!?!
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Trim on January 08, 2021, 03:02:37 PM
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: Pete on January 08, 2021, 07:04:54 PM
      What a piece of crap.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: cas4ksu on January 13, 2021, 09:31:53 AM
      https://www.kxan.com/sports/longhorns-head-coach-steve-sarkisian-the-eyes-of-texas-is-our-school-song/

      I read something about a month ago detailing The Eyes of Texas "controversy" at UT.

      I think you could earnestly make the case that Herman's biggest driver in getting the axe was his handling of The Eyes of Texas, not going 6-3.
      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: michigancat on January 13, 2021, 09:40:35 AM
      https://www.kxan.com/sports/longhorns-head-coach-steve-sarkisian-the-eyes-of-texas-is-our-school-song/

      I read something about a month ago detailing The Eyes of Texas "controversy" at UT.

      I think you could earnestly make the case that Herman's biggest driver in getting the axe was his handling of The Eyes of Texas, not going 6-3.
      Yeah saw Bomani Jones discussing this


      Title: Re: Athletes Forcing Change
      Post by: MakeItRain on January 13, 2021, 07:57:39 PM
      https://www.kxan.com/sports/longhorns-head-coach-steve-sarkisian-the-eyes-of-texas-is-our-school-song/

      I read something about a month ago detailing The Eyes of Texas "controversy" at UT.

      I think you could earnestly make the case that Herman's biggest driver in getting the axe was his handling of The Eyes of Texas, not going 6-3.
      Yeah saw Bomani Jones discussing this



      Well that sucks.