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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: sys on April 11, 2020, 01:47:34 AM

Title: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 01:47:34 AM
pretty good discussion of how the theoretical winning sanders coalition didn't materialize with observations on the broader democratic coalition as currently construed.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 11, 2020, 08:16:47 AM
Hindsight:

If lots of non-college and rural whites support Trump, why would you expect their peers who might not to have completely different priorities? Like, "your three best friends want THE WALL, but I can tell that you're interested in hearing a detailed account of what people get wrong about socialism and how its policies can actually work in America!"

Attacking a party "establishment" is not a good way to get members of that party to vote for you - and ESPECIALLY so with Southern black Democrats.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on April 11, 2020, 07:15:14 PM
I read a quarter of that, skimmed another quarter and gave up on the rest. The entire premise of that article is flawed. Know how I know that? The column is about what the campaign sought to accomplish but ultimately failed to do. Unless I missed it, there is no sourcing from Sanders or his campaign to verify any of this. It's presented as a factual post-mortem, but it's total theory, of which he seems to have no particular insight outside of some cherry picked quotes from other sources stripped of context.

I don't know why this column, which is a testament to the vastness of the internet, deserved to be the basis of a new thread. This is the greatest example of your blindspot, sys, this is a flawed slice of confirmation bias that has no value greater than any other progressive think piece out there.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 08:37:02 PM
ok, thanks mir.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 11, 2020, 09:05:31 PM
I read the whole thing and I think not getting to establishment blacks really hurt him more than anything. Also with the attitude of fighting the Democratic establishment. I think he could have gotten his message across without attacking what people associated with Obama's legacy. Also they probably had misplaced confidence that crazy anti-Hillary vote in 2016 that made them think they could be so anti establishment
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 11, 2020, 09:48:26 PM
I don't understand his messaging at all. Embracing an unpopular term like "socialism"??? Totally unnecessary.

I thought the article did a nice job of highlighting his traditional view of class and describing how it doesn't really have an audience right now.

I think perceived electability was a pretty big primary issue that wasn't addressed in the article.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 10:32:34 PM
I read the whole thing and I think not getting to establishment blacks really hurt him more than anything. Also with the attitude of fighting the Democratic establishment. I think he could have gotten his message across without attacking what people associated with Obama's legacy. Also they probably had misplaced confidence that crazy anti-Hillary vote in 2016 that made them think they could be so anti establishment

that's more or less the space warren tried to run in.  progressive party-loyalist.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 10:34:30 PM
I think perceived electability was a pretty big primary issue that wasn't addressed in the article.

it's definitely way up on the list of people's priorities.  but i think decision-making usually flows in the opposite direction - people decide who they want to vote for and then ascribe to that person the trait of electability.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 11, 2020, 10:49:59 PM


I read the whole thing and I think not getting to establishment blacks really hurt him more than anything. Also with the attitude of fighting the Democratic establishment. I think he could have gotten his message across without attacking what people associated with Obama's legacy. Also they probably had misplaced confidence that crazy anti-Hillary vote in 2016 that made them think they could be so anti establishment

that's more or less the space warren tried to run in.  progressive party-loyalist.

I thought the wine cave and anti-PAC stuff was pretty aggressive anti-establishment messaging even if she didn't explicitly say she was up against the Democratic establishment. (Why did Bernie tweet that when he was in the lead?????)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 11, 2020, 10:52:28 PM


I think perceived electability was a pretty big primary issue that wasn't addressed in the article.

it's definitely way up on the list of people's priorities.  but i think decision-making usually flows in the opposite direction - people decide who they want to vote for and then ascribe to that person the trait of electability.

I don't think that's what was happening this time.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 11:07:49 PM
I thought the wine cave and anti-PAC stuff was pretty aggressive anti-establishment messaging even if she didn't explicitly say she was up against the Democratic establishment.

normie dems don't consider the democratic party to be synonymous with pacs or fundraising.  that's a progressive viewpoint.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 11, 2020, 11:10:27 PM
I think perceived electability was a pretty big primary issue that wasn't addressed in the article.

it's definitely way up on the list of people's priorities.  but i think decision-making usually flows in the opposite direction - people decide who they want to vote for and then ascribe to that person the trait of electability.

Yeah, people don't want to think they're wasting their vote. But don't you think there was more to it than that this year? More value than usual on winning because the opponent is more hated than usual?

If so, Sanders' divisiveness may have hurt him more than the article suggests.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 11, 2020, 11:20:08 PM
I thought the article did a nice job of highlighting his traditional view of class and describing how it doesn't really have an audience right now.

Further, I'm not sure many of his supporters view class in the way that he does. Some do. It's an interesting question.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 11, 2020, 11:47:46 PM
But don't you think there was more to it than that this year? More value than usual on winning because the opponent is more hated than usual?

yeah, i think voters valued it more than normal, but i think when people try to determine who is electable they mostly do so by projecting their own preferences onto the electorate.

that's not to say they aren't sincere in the effort or desire.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 12, 2020, 12:33:47 AM
But don't you think there was more to it than that this year? More value than usual on winning because the opponent is more hated than usual?

yeah, i think voters valued it more than normal, but i think when people try to determine who is electable they mostly do so by projecting their own preferences onto the electorate.

that's not to say they aren't sincere in the effort or desire.

I don't think you're giving people enough credit. We differentiate betwen our own desires and the desires of others literally all the time. We often sacrifice.

I've seen several examples of women on twitter who both hate Biden and still wanted him to be the nominee because they hate Trump WAY more and figure Biden has the best chance to beat him. It would be absurd to say they prefer Biden to other Democrats that they do not hate. That might seem strange to me in other years, but it does not in 2020.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 12, 2020, 02:20:00 AM
i think the approach i mentioned is much more common.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 12, 2020, 02:40:25 PM
I thought the wine cave and anti-PAC stuff was pretty aggressive anti-establishment messaging even if she didn't explicitly say she was up against the Democratic establishment.

normie dems don't consider the democratic party to be synonymous with pacs or fundraising.  that's a progressive viewpoint.

If that's the case, I guess I don't understand what specific attacks Normie Dems took issue with from Bernie. Just the fact that he said he was going up against the establishment?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 12, 2020, 10:07:56 PM
not sure i follow.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on April 12, 2020, 11:17:23 PM
I thought the wine cave and anti-PAC stuff was pretty aggressive anti-establishment messaging even if she didn't explicitly say she was up against the Democratic establishment.

normie dems don't consider the democratic party to be synonymous with pacs or fundraising.  that's a progressive viewpoint.

If that's the case, I guess I don't understand what specific attacks Normie Dems took issue with from Bernie. Just the fact that he said he was going up against the establishment?

The people who took exception to him saying he was taking the democratic party were
1. Not paying attention to the Sanders led progressives and the rest of the party going back to 2016, and not limited to the election.
2. Not reflective of the people who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary. Political junkies conflate how they behave with how most people vote. Nobody cares about any of this crap. Biden beat Sanders the same reason that Hillary did. People know the Obama tie and the electability resonates more with people who aren't consumed with politics than an old independent from Vermont. The messaging from any of the progressives didn't matter much because most voters aren't interested in drilling down that far.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 13, 2020, 07:05:29 AM
If that's the case, I guess I don't understand what specific attacks Normie Dems took issue with from Bernie. Just the fact that he said he was going up against the establishment?

This is a great thread.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 13, 2020, 07:43:25 AM
Many people believe that causes associated with the Democratic Party and its leaders have done a lot of good things for a lot of people. Many volunteer their time or money on behalf of these causes. When Sanders talks about leading a revolution against the Democratic establishment, he's dismissing these people. They are part of the Democratic establishment. They have an affinity for it. They've made an investment in it.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 13, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
another discussion of the left's place in the democratic party as illuminated by sanders 2020.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 13, 2020, 09:29:28 AM
Many people believe that causes associated with the Democratic Party and its leaders have done a lot of good things for a lot of people. Many volunteer their time or money on behalf of these causes. When Sanders talks about leading a revolution against the Democratic establishment, he's dismissing these people. They are part of the Democratic establishment. They have an affinity for it. They've made an investment in it.
That makes sense
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 13, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
That article helps shed some light for me on why Sanders and his supporters might have thought he could get more of the non college and rural white vote. And also their seeming reluctance to distinguish between Repiblicans and Democrats. Overcommitment to the idea of class distinctions/conflicts.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on April 13, 2020, 09:37:17 AM
another discussion of the left's place in the democratic party as illuminated by sanders 2020.

I agreed with a lot of the points but I think progressives should absolutely use presidential primary campaigns to test progressive debates. It helped push the entire party left over the past couple of elections IMO
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 16, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
good interview with mcelwee.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on April 16, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
That was a good interview and I agree with pretty much all of it. The only issue I have is they didn't really get into why Biden won instead of why the progressives lost. Grunwald kind of addressed an adjacent point early in the interview, but if your would have replaced Joe Biden with another sturdy, known moderate without a close tie to Obama, someone like Tim Kaine, one of the progressives win. I don't think the messaging was the issue. The exit polling data and Biden's move left prove that the country is ready to move left as well, but Biden being a comfortable, but well worn blanket, carried the day.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on April 16, 2020, 10:21:57 PM
Quote
It was smart of AOC to identify as a Democrat, because most Democrats do believe the things that progressives believe.

Exactly. The Democratic Party is full of progressive ideas (just like the Republican Party is full of backward looking ideas). It's part of the party identity. I don't understand how people could be completely unaware of that or not care about it or want to dismiss it.

Quote
I’d propose a focus on paid family leave and childcare; ambitious climate action and clean energy; and lowering drug prices.

Pollsters seem to think that two HUGE winning issues for Democrats in 2020 are climate and healthcare.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 28, 2020, 09:26:46 PM
we've gotta get money out of politics.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 01, 2020, 09:25:12 AM
I thought this was interesting. Seems like it could do long term damage if correct. The demographics of the changing polls might be informative.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 01, 2020, 10:12:47 AM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 01, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
He's just down everywhere.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: SkinnyBenny on May 01, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
Well President T can rest assured he’ll always have his guy Dax
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on May 01, 2020, 10:31:07 AM

Actually heard this concern today from the two office trump dudes!
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on May 01, 2020, 03:27:51 PM
Do you all think these numbers will actually hold true in the general election? I would assume that a reduction in support for trump does not equal an increase in Democrat support.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 01, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
I think those favorability numbers will come back up like usual. My feeling is less that these people are thinking he sucks ass and more that they wish he'd stop saying crazy crap on camera, like usual.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 01, 2020, 08:43:22 PM
one of the predictions i'm most confident in for the 2020 election is that third party vote share will be down compared to 2016.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 08, 2020, 04:54:26 PM
shor is one of the more interesting people i've encountered on twitter and this is an interesting tweet.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 09, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
yes.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on May 09, 2020, 04:51:43 PM
DC literally has "Taxation without Representation" on their license plates. It not being a state today is the dumbest rough ridin' thing ever.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 11, 2020, 12:52:56 PM
good thread, better essay.

Quote
In a nutshell, she finds that financial wellbeing had little impact on candidate preference.  Instead, she writes, their votes were related to positions “on issues related to American global dominance and the rise of a majority-minority America.”

While racial status threat and global status threat are different issues, they can clearly be intertwined in the minds of whites who feel they are the prototypical Americans and therefore have the most to lose if their country is no longer dominant.  Mutz makes clear that whites’ protecting their dominant status isn’t an act of old-fashioned racism that assumed minorities were morally and intellectually inferior.  Indeed, in this case, whites are seeing threats coming from nonwhite domestic groups and foreign nations sufficiently capable of displacing them.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 11, 2020, 01:09:33 PM
That quoted text is similar to stuff Bannon says.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 13, 2020, 07:58:18 PM
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i have a couple of beto related thoughts on this:

1.  this is one of a couple reasons i became convinced, posthoc, that beto would not have been as good of a general election candidate as i thought i year ago, and part of why biden is a better general election candidate than i thought a year ago.

2.  a lot of people make a big deal about beto's outspoken rhetoric on guns being politically damaging to him, and i'm fairly convinced they're mostly wrong.  but almost no one talks about his emphasis on race, which i think is a good bit more damaging (and conceivably may have cost him the senate race in 2018).
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: kim carnes on May 13, 2020, 08:12:23 PM
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i have a couple of beto related thoughts on this:

1.  this is one of a couple reasons i became convinced, posthoc, that beto would not have been as good of a general election candidate as i thought i year ago, and part of why biden is a better general election candidate than i thought a year ago.

2.  a lot of people make a big deal about beto's outspoken rhetoric on guns being politically damaging to him, and i'm fairly convinced they're mostly wrong.  but almost no one talks about his emphasis on race, which i think is a good bit more damaging (and conceivably may have cost him the senate race in 2018).

I think talking about guns in that light is undoubtedly a net loss from a voter perspective, unless you are a far left candidate (and even then it might be)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 13, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
it might be a net loss (though i'm not sure of that), but if so, i think it's a small one in a place like texas.  not many voters highly motivated on that issue that are gettable votes for a dem candidate.  more of an alienating issue in places like the northeast or the upper midwest where there are still rural and exurban white male dems.

i also think it's an interesting issue because it's one of a fairly small number of issues that unifies disparate elements of the dem coalition.  biden is somewhat quietly leaning into gun control because they think it's something that can motivate young dem voters for him.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on May 16, 2020, 09:01:33 AM

Very interesting and insightful by Rodriguez.

Quote
Mutz makes clear that whites’ protecting their dominant status isn’t an act of old-fashioned racism that assumed minorities were morally and intellectually inferior.  Indeed, in this case, whites are seeing threats coming from nonwhite domestic groups and foreign nations sufficiently capable of displacing them.

One quibble. I'm not sure there's ultimately much difference between old timey and modern day white supremacy/nativism. All of it has always been about protecting the dominant status of whites.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 16, 2020, 06:45:36 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 18, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
good article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/why-the-uncle-joe-cant-internet-criticism-is-mostly-malarkey
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 19, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on June 07, 2020, 12:42:28 PM
cogent insights, the both.


Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on June 24, 2020, 02:01:28 AM
Vox.com: DC statehood is closer now than it has ever been.
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/22/21293168/dc-statehood-vote-filibuster-supreme-court-joe-biden

Happy for my brothers and sisters.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 08, 2020, 01:03:03 PM
lots of implications for '22 and beyond.  probably the most interesting thing in american politics from a hobbyist perspective is how republicans will react to repudiation in 2020.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on July 08, 2020, 01:15:19 PM
Being out of The White House and in the minority in both chambers seems like it would go a long way toward bringing pubs back together. Their common hate of elite, libs, the media, etc. is very strong.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on July 08, 2020, 01:32:31 PM
Very true, there is nothing conservatives love more than complaining about imaginary persecution
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Dugout DickStone on July 08, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
Very true, there is nothing conservatives love more than complaining about imaginary persecution

It is not a love, it is a rallying cry to motivate the base.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 17, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
shor is one of the more interesting people i've encountered on twitter and this is an interesting tweet.


this is a fantastic, wide-ranging interview with shor.  great for challenging your basic understanding about how politics in the united states functions (no matter where you are on the political spectrum, i think you'll find something where shor articulates that your understanding is incorrect).

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Kat Kid on July 17, 2020, 10:35:26 AM
I definitely think that is an interesting point. But I would like to see some comparison on union membership.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on July 17, 2020, 06:16:20 PM
lots of implications for '22 and beyond.  probably the most interesting thing in american politics from a hobbyist perspective is how republicans will react to repudiation in 2020.


If they are smart, they'll return to being the party of a small, non-interventionist government. Trumpism doesn't stand for any conservative ideals but is about being against what's perceived as liberal and has unnecessarily put the Republican party at odds with conservatives. Leave the social issues alone, they really aren't the federal government's place anyway. Focus on spending and the deficit. 2020 could be a huge opportunity for the Republicans by ditching Trumpism, which didn't start with Trump. The Democratic Party is a mess and the 2020 election has the potential make it worse, even if they do win the Senate.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 18, 2020, 09:10:11 AM
If they are smart, they'll return to being the party of a small, non-interventionist government... Leave the social issues alone, they really aren't the federal government's place anyway. Focus on spending and the deficit. 2020 could be a huge opportunity for the Republicans by ditching Trumpism, which didn't start with Trump. The Democratic Party is a mess and the 2020 election has the potential make it worse, even if they do win the Senate.

i don't think there is much of a market for that brand of conservativism.  it doesn't fulfill the policy desires of the majority of current republicans (christian social conservatism, nationalism) and it has been pretty broadly discredited by the empirical evidence of the 2010's where expansionary monetary policy undeniably produced better outcomes than that ideology predicted and tight fiscal policy produced worse.

i think there is more of a market for a sort of powerful state federalist ideology along the lines of what you mention.  i think that would be a fundamentally crippled ideology because you divorce the branches of government charged with producing outcomes (state/local) from the branch of government with the capacity to address national challenges (federal).  but i think there might be a market for it.

here is a semi-interesting interview with a conservative envisioning channeling nationalist urges into a healthier conservative party than the xenophobic, closed door ethnonationalism of trump.  i don't think it's likely to get much traction either, but it's one vision of how a non-abhorrent republican party might rise from the ashes of trumpism.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 18, 2020, 10:28:00 AM
i think there is value to the realization that taxes and inflation aren't a zero sum equation.  but, yeah, there seems to me to be some non-linearity in the danger of being mistaken in the durability of the deflationary environment.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: catastrophe on July 19, 2020, 10:37:08 PM
Is HR1 going to be priority number one if Democrats take the executive and legislative branches?
Yes, in the sense that many viable vaccines will be emerging.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on July 21, 2020, 02:03:43 PM
I'm about 7/8ths through this. I feel like I know most of the stories already, but some of the details and analysis gave me new perspective on a few things these days. Like, I feel like I can better understand how people like Devin Nunes, Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, etc. can always go out and play the part of the absurdly unreasonable bad person. It's not that they're simply speaking for their pos constituents. Rather, they view that role as an effective, proven strategy that is now a cherished part of late GOP history. Like they see themselves as modern day Newt Gingriches pushing the unreasonable bad person role further and further, no matter how absurd.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OX2AgVDTL._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 26, 2020, 01:05:03 PM
an interesting point.  oth, i don't know if this is a problem anywhere besides ny and its largely a solvable problem.  but it does highlight a choke point that might exist in some competitive states - and, if so, the party currently in control of election administration might not be incentivized to solve the problem.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on July 26, 2020, 08:36:17 PM
There are places where it will be complicated, for sure. For instance, here in Iowa you have to double apply for a mail in ballot. The SoS sends out a request to receive an application for a ballot. That request then goes to the county who sends out the application for the mail in ballot. If you reach those two deadlines then you get the ballot, which of course also has a deadline.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 02, 2020, 10:34:12 AM
conservatism is being discredited by the incompetence of conservatives.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: steve dave on August 02, 2020, 10:39:57 AM
conservatism is being discredited by the incompetence of conservatives.
Yes


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Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 05, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
couple good articles on polling and 2020 polling challenges.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/here-s-how-nbc-news-working-improve-its-state-polling-n1234716

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/05/key-things-to-know-about-election-polling-in-the-united-states/
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 18, 2020, 04:41:07 PM
people really hate hillary clinton.

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Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: steve dave on August 18, 2020, 04:43:10 PM
Hate her entire guts


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Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 18, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
good skills outta representative lamb here.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on August 18, 2020, 07:43:20 PM
LOL also wow @ having Shakir and Tanden on the same thing. I'll have to read it later
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 21, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on August 24, 2020, 08:55:22 AM
Although Republicans aren't always saying the same sorts of things they have over the past 30-40 years, I think there are PLENTY of general similarities between then and now. For example, they're concerned more with what they perceive benefits themselves personally than with anything else. They're very concerned with what they perceive to be people getting more than their fair share or what they're entitled. In one sense or another, they believe that whites are superior to non-whites and that men are superior to women. They're pro rich people. They're reluctant to change (they are the conservative party, after all). And so on.

Quote
With Election Day just a few months away, I was genuinely surprised, in the course of recent conversations with a great many Republicans, at their inability to articulate a purpose, a designation, a raison d'être for their party.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 03, 2020, 08:44:46 AM
That's worse than a minimum wage increase.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on September 03, 2020, 09:46:58 AM
Trump campaign's big law and order message is arguably not working. Are they going to stick with it or change things up? What else can they try? What are their options?

I don't think it will be a big message, but I'd guess we'll hear more about Burisma.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 09, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
this is at least somewhat, a worldwide trend.  but the speed with which it reached breaking point and rolled on past in the united states under trump is still hard to appreciate.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 12, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
this is pretty amazing.  the dog that caught the car.



Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 16, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
probably the most important question in u.s. politics is if these voters stick with dems for 2022.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 21, 2020, 11:44:51 PM
candidate effects probably make this data useless, but it could be an interesting natural experiment.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 23, 2020, 08:06:08 PM
this is an interesting dynamic.  not likely to be of much immediate import, but farther out, it could.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 23, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
this is also relevant, although my anecdotal experience is that as latinos integrate into american society, they become increasingly racialized.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Kat Kid on September 23, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
I still can't believe that guy's name is Perry Bacon Jr.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 24, 2020, 10:39:01 PM
unfortunate response.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on September 24, 2020, 11:17:37 PM
unfortunate response.


You surprised?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on September 25, 2020, 09:16:06 AM
Maybe the experience of seeing more billionaires in the world serves as an in your face reminder to middle class pubs that they don't want the government taking from the billions that they themselves will have one day in the future.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 25, 2020, 09:09:12 PM
You surprised?

the racial part, no.  the deregulation part, yes.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 29, 2020, 12:59:56 AM
with regard to this and the discussion on another thread, i think people do not completely grasp the impact of this.  it is not just that dems are less likely to hold a majority, it is that anytime that they do hold a majority it is with multiple senators beholden to republican leaning electorates.

i'll also add that dems trying to reform senate rules to ease passing legislation in the next two years should consider that in so doing, they'd be reducing the power of the minority power in the only government body they are unlikely to control in the near and intermediate future.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 01, 2020, 09:24:07 PM
yes.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 05, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
i believe that makes sd goEMAW's most powerful voter in 2020.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on October 05, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
What was it
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 05, 2020, 08:21:22 PM
a chart showing the electoral college leverage of a vote in different states/districts.  nebraska 2 was third behind wisconsin and pennsylvania.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 08, 2020, 08:11:52 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on October 08, 2020, 08:50:42 PM

So are you changing your opinion of UBI or am I misunderstanding your view? You lost your crap at Markey proposing a handout for a fraction of that amount.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on October 08, 2020, 08:57:29 PM
Hasn't study after study shown straight cash to be the most effective anti-poverty measure?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Trim on October 08, 2020, 09:01:01 PM
Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 08, 2020, 09:26:01 PM
So are you changing your opinion of UBI or am I misunderstanding your view? You lost your crap at Markey proposing a handout for a fraction of that amount.

i've been a proponent of some forms of what could be called a ubi for years.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 08, 2020, 09:26:53 PM
Hasn't study after study shown straight cash to be the most effective anti-poverty measure?

i think the data are a little messier than that, but basically.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on October 08, 2020, 09:26:56 PM
Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.
That's not exactly rare, depending on the source. Tons of homeless are just people that can't afford housing. And of course homelessness can make a minor mental health issue way more serious.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: kim carnes on October 08, 2020, 09:27:03 PM
Hasn't study after study shown straight cash to be the most effective anti-poverty measure?

So it’s effective bc the shelter system wasted a lot of money?  Makes sense.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 08, 2020, 09:28:16 PM
Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.

fair point.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: kim carnes on October 08, 2020, 09:37:29 PM
Michigancat thinks he’s living in 3020 with his ideas.  Wait til he hears about communism, the govt literally provides you with anything you could ever need.  It is lit as crap and everybody has a good time. 
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on October 08, 2020, 10:21:03 PM


Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.
That's not exactly rare, depending on the source. Tons of homeless are just people that can't afford housing. And of course homelessness can make a minor mental health issue way more serious.

I should probs read the article before I comment, but I was wondering what the housing situation was there (I assume they had access to affordable housing if the results were really good).

I don't know how Canada handles affordable housing but I do know Vancouver ain't cheap
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Trim on October 08, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.
That's not exactly rare, depending on the source. Tons of homeless are just people that can't afford housing. And of course homelessness can make a minor mental health issue way more serious.

Sure, and for that type of homeless, this cash injection worked well.  I'm not surprised.  Now, on to addressing the more difficult problem.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on October 08, 2020, 11:47:08 PM
Quote
All 115 participants, ranging in age between 19 and 64, had been homeless for at least six months and were not struggling with serious substance use or mental health issues.
That's not exactly rare, depending on the source. Tons of homeless are just people that can't afford housing. And of course homelessness can make a minor mental health issue way more serious.

Sure, and for that type of homeless, this cash injection worked well.  I'm not surprised.  Now, on to addressing the more difficult problem.

I don't think the findings of this program are insignificant or obvious to most people even with the population that participated, but OK
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on October 22, 2020, 10:03:33 AM
This is a great (non) answer, politically. Justified since it's regarding a big, complex issue. And it doesn't commit him to anything right now.

Republicans have been willing to pay an electoral price for installing their judges. A case could be made that Democrats should go ahead and let them pay that price without potentially incurring one of their own by expanding the Supreme Court.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 22, 2020, 07:41:05 PM
the shift from 'pub to dem of well educated voters gets more attention, but this is probably more important.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 22, 2020, 07:43:21 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on October 22, 2020, 08:25:03 PM
the shift from 'pub to dem of well educated voters gets more attention, but this is probably more important.

Invalid Tweet ID

I'd be willing to bet that black and Latino males are trending more conservative as black women and Latinas are trending more liberally. I obviously don't have data that shows this but colloquially it seems black men are becoming more conservative the more the patriarchy has collapsed.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on October 22, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
I'd be willing to bet that black and Latino males are trending more conservative as black women and Latinas are trending more liberally.

yep, this is what has happened, at least vis a vis trump.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: catastrophe on November 01, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
the shift from 'pub to dem of well educated voters gets more attention, but this is probably more important.

Invalid Tweet ID

I'd be willing to bet that black and Latino males are trending more conservative as black women and Latinas are trending more liberally. I obviously don't have data that shows this but colloquially it seems black men are becoming more conservative the more the patriarchy has collapsed.
Lending further evidence to the point that women are the smarter members of the species as a whole.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 01, 2020, 12:30:30 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on November 04, 2020, 11:59:19 AM
Awful. Another instance of minority rule in our government.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 05, 2020, 09:36:55 PM
biden should have had like entire ads running in florida just talking about how much he admired guaido.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on November 06, 2020, 04:49:01 AM
biden should have had like entire ads running in florida just talking about how much he admired guaido.


I saw a long form television piece about Venezuelans in Florida and their voting habits, essentially he was in a no win situation there because the support for Guaido in Florida was only about 50/50. I think his bigger issue isn't that people though he was a socialist, that's been hanging around dems down there for a while and Obama and Hillary overcame it, he just didn't show up, he punted Florida.

Also if you haven't seen it yet, watch 537 Votes on HBO, it's a very well made doc, it's more about the history of politics and democrats in south Florida and less about the 2000 recount.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
this is a cool map.  the other three blue splotches on the border are yuma, nogales and douglas, heavily mexican-american.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: 8manpick on November 06, 2020, 03:47:36 PM
Very cool
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 05:21:32 PM
shor is really going for a 2nd cancellation today.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 06, 2020, 06:18:09 PM
this is a cool map.  the other three blue splotches on the border are yuma, nogales and douglas, heavily mexican-american.


Do you know how AZ Latinos are different culturally from RGV Latinos?

(https://i.imgur.com/k4c9rSk.png)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 06, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
shor is really going for a 2nd cancellation today.


I was going to say he should run some numbers on the value of keeping his own mouth shut but I bet his first cancellation was fairly lucrative overall. (also is this really cancel worthy?)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 06:24:50 PM
also is this really cancel worthy?

nah, he just got a bunch of people to yell at him.  for this and for criticizing aoc.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 06:32:05 PM
Do you know how AZ Latinos are different culturally from RGV Latinos?

i haven't spent much time in the rgv, but my impressions are that rgv would be longer generations in the us (many since pre-1848), more with a familial origin in ne mexico compared to more diverse regional origin in az, az more urban, probably just slightly younger.  rgv pretty much 100% mexican, az maybe 10% central american or so too.

my guess is that generations in the us and/or ruralness are probably the most important differences.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 06, 2020, 06:36:27 PM
Do you know how AZ Latinos are different culturally from RGV Latinos?

i haven't spent much time in the rgv, but my impressions are that rgv would be longer generations in the us (many since pre-1848), more with a familial origin in ne mexico compared to more diverse regional origin in az, az more urban, probably just slightly younger.  rgv pretty much 100% mexican, az maybe 10% central american or so too.

my guess is that generations in the us and/or ruralness are probably the most important differences.

that makes sense. seems crazy how much they shifted to the right in TX
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 06:59:19 PM
oh, one other thing that might be relevant.  rgv is like 90-95% mexican-american.  it's pretty homogeneous.  most az latinos live in phoenix or tucson, where while some may live in highly latino neighborhoods, the cities themselves are multicultural.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 06, 2020, 07:04:20 PM
hopefully dems can hold this.  2022 may be tough in nevada, though.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Kat Kid on November 06, 2020, 10:06:12 PM
florida latinos are a pretty distinct group from the rest of the mainly mexican latino population throughout the rest of the country. I don't think catering to the florida weirdos is worth it at this point, just offer them material benefits and let the chips fall.

the southwest and midwest are worth way more, and just objectively guaido is a joke so it doesn't even make any sense (I think you were joking). But in general I don't think trying to appeal to the south american contras and capitalist carribbean types instead of the much larger population of working and middle class mexicans is worth it anyway.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 07, 2020, 01:21:21 AM
guaido is a joke so it doesn't even make any sense (I think you were joking).

i was being flippant, but not quite a joke.  like, there's almost no cost to telling some group of immigrants that you liked whatever team they were on in their former country and it's meaningful to them.  cuban-americans, seemingly, mostly just want to hear that castro sucked ass, and no one else in america gives a crap, so go ahead and say that.

mir indicated that guaido isn't viewed that favorably by venezuelan-americans, so maybe that's not the right message.  but whatever it is - maduro sucks or maduro's great or chavez was great but maduro mumped it up or chavez, maduro and guaido are all crap, just say that, because it's very meaningful to this small group of electorally important people and no one else cares.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on November 07, 2020, 09:36:16 AM
florida latinos are a pretty distinct group from the rest of the mainly mexican latino population throughout the rest of the country. I don't think catering to the florida weirdos is worth it at this point, just offer them material benefits and let the chips fall.

the southwest and midwest are worth way more, and just objectively guaido is a joke so it doesn't even make any sense (I think you were joking). But in general I don't think trying to appeal to the south american contras and capitalist carribbean types instead of the much larger population of working and middle class mexicans is worth it anyway.

I love you
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 07, 2020, 01:28:11 PM
still a lot of votes to be counted, so the exact margin isn't written in stone, but the electoral college disadvantage for dems increased again this year.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 07, 2020, 03:44:14 PM
when all the votes are in the magnitude of the electoral college bias is going to be safely larger than the magnitude of the error in thenational polling average.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 07, 2020, 03:54:07 PM


still a lot of votes to be counted, so the exact margin isn't written in stone, but the electoral college disadvantage for dems increased again this year.


How is that defined, only 227 EC votes were from states with more than a 4-5% margin for Biden?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 07, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
difference btwn the national popular vote margin and the margin in the tipping point state.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on November 07, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Would it cost less to relocate millions of progressives moderates than spend money on campaigns?  :D
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 08, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
for memphis (on 2020 poling bias):



Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on November 09, 2020, 07:15:30 PM
When Trump was first elected and people talked about lasting consequences, I wasn't exactly sure what those consequences might be. I share the concerns highlighted in this link. I worry that a rapidly increasing number of Republican leaders are more intersted in being in power than with having democratic elections.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 09, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
cohn with sorta the reverse of shor's non-response bias.

Quote
We know that politically engaged voters are more likely to respond to surveys. And so it may be that as the Trump Presidency has totally energized the Democratic base, it has also led those same kinds of voters to increase their propensity to respond to political surveys.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Justwin on November 09, 2020, 09:35:23 PM
https://unherd.com/2020/11/meet-the-shy-trumpers/

Quote
As figure 1 illustrates, 45% of Republicans with degrees, compared to 23% of Democrats with degrees, said they feared that their careers could be at risk if their views became known.

...

According to a Pew survey on October 9, Trump was leading Biden by 21 points among white non-graduates but trailing him by 26 points among white graduates. Likewise, a Politico/ABC poll on October 11 found that ‘Trump leads by 26 points among white voters without four-year college degrees, but Biden holds a 31-point lead with white college graduates.’

The exit polls, however, show that Trump ran even among white college graduates 49-49, and even had an edge among white female graduates of 50-49! This puts pre-election surveys out by a whopping 26-31 points among white graduates. By contrast, among whites without degrees, the actual tilt in the election was 64-35, a 29-point gap, which the polls basically got right.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: treysolid on November 10, 2020, 11:04:57 AM
https://unherd.com/2020/11/meet-the-shy-trumpers/

Quote
As figure 1 illustrates, 45% of Republicans with degrees, compared to 23% of Democrats with degrees, said they feared that their careers could be at risk if their views became known.

The most telling thing isn't the discrepancy in the %'s, it's the fact that they are above 2-5% at all.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 10, 2020, 03:46:33 PM
Quote
David Shor - I mean, I’m not a robot. 

Lol

Vox.com: Election results: Why the polls got it wrong.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/11/10/21551766/election-polls-results-wrong-david-shor

 :lol:

also, great article.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 10, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
that's exactly what a robot who wants you to think they are not a robot would say
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 12, 2020, 10:45:13 PM
Shor is getting around more these days or do I just recognize him now?

Quote
Ultimately, in this hyperpolarized world, what national media outlets choose to talk about is going to be much more important in determining whether [Democratic Congressman] Collin Peterson survives in Minnesota’s 7th district than anything he does. That’s just the reality. [This month, Peterson lost his bid for reelection.]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/12/2020-election-analysis-democrats-future-david-shor-interview-436334

Maybe there's two David Shors? The one I knew of was cancelled
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 12, 2020, 10:56:14 PM
david shor?  yeah, i like his early stuff.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 12, 2020, 11:09:55 PM
Shor is getting around more these days or do I just recognize him now?

Quote
Ultimately, in this hyperpolarized world, what national media outlets choose to talk about is going to be much more important in determining whether [Democratic Congressman] Collin Peterson survives in Minnesota’s 7th district than anything he does. That’s just the reality. [This month, Peterson lost his bid for reelection.]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/12/2020-election-analysis-democrats-future-david-shor-interview-436334

but yeah interesting article though.  I got to this and was like "WHAT?!?"

Quote
The average voter in a general election is something like 50 years old — in a midterm or primary, it’s higher. They don’t have a college degree. They watch about six hours of TV a day — that’s the average; there are people who watch more.

something about that seems off

other thoughts

-crazy he can point to ONE MISTAKE costing the 2016 election
-The white college educated shift to dems is an interesting one, especially the idea that they're sort of shoving out minorities
-he's got a huge boner for non-college whites. I don't know how his numbers work out but should Dems maybe focus on minorities that are shifting away before being racist-friendly? dunno
-he was less like a robot but still kinda roboty
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 12, 2020, 11:13:16 PM
that is actually a fantastic interview, though.  the best i've seen.  a person could read that and nothing else and understand 2020 american politics.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on November 12, 2020, 11:14:26 PM
kook
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 13, 2020, 01:56:50 AM
a less data-driven perspective.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on November 13, 2020, 07:11:49 AM
It sounds like Shor is saying that dems need to do better with choosing policies to attract higher info voters and better propaganda to attract lower info voters, which rings true to me as an opportunity for improvement.

I'm not sure to what extent we should heed recent trends given the uniqueness of Trump. No one else has anything like his appeal.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 13, 2020, 05:26:35 PM
not sure how i feel about yglesias leaving vox, but this is a good blog post and worth reading.  skipping over his reiteration of shor's concerns and moving right to the end - i think this really gets to a lot of the disconnect between what progressives think people should support, what polls show they support if the poll question is carefully worded and what people actually vote for.

yes, in theory, the american people probably would prefer some sort of state-mediated universal health care.  they vote against efforts to install one because they are deeply doubtful of any level of american government's ability to produce an acceptable version.  until governments can produce a track record of competence, this going to be a stumbling block for any ambitious policy.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 13, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
some of these voters are not going to be going back to dems post-trump.  but also, these are small towns, small counties, small numbers of votes.  i want to read the article talking to harris county mexican-americans that switched d to r in 2020, not these guys.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/13/south-texas-voters-donald-trump/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1605275725&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 13, 2020, 11:05:25 PM
david shor is everywhere (and still worth reading).




Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 14, 2020, 01:35:25 PM
After reading a few of those Shor interviews there's a few things that would be interesting for him to address:

He keeps saying Dems need to go after non-college whites, but they choose the candidate who should have been the absolute best possible candidate with non-college whites (sys pointed this out with the Corvette video), and didn't make much ground.

He blames the Hillary loss on her immigration focus during the campaign, yet doesn't seem to mention that as a possible reason that Latinos swung right this year.

I also don't like his he uses absolutes, as if ONE SINGLE THING is the difference between winning and losing in this state or that one.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 14, 2020, 07:08:16 PM
good article with one congresswoman's views on the coming days.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 14, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
Have ranked choice voting instead of first pass (winner take all) and interesting idea on House representation as well for proportional representation. Would take tho

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/23/21075960/polarization-parties-ranked-choice-voting-proportional-representation
Yeah that all sounds great. Would like to hear the counter argument
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 21, 2020, 06:54:01 PM
heh.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 21, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
he thinks it's a waste of time and money for high profile elections (persuasion or gotv, either way).
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 21, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
he thinks it's a waste of time and money for high profile elections (persuasion or gotv, either way).
Does he clarify where he draws the line of "high profile"?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on November 21, 2020, 09:00:04 PM
not really.

just that it makes sense for like school board elections and doesn't for presidential elections, but if he's identified the point in between where the flip occurs, i haven't seen it.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on November 21, 2020, 10:18:52 PM
The tweet is gone so I don't know who he is but I do agree with this

he thinks it's a waste of time and money for high profile elections (persuasion or gotv, either way).
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on November 21, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
The tweet is gone so I don't know who he is but I do agree with this

he thinks it's a waste of time and money for high profile elections (persuasion or gotv, either way).

it was shor and he was saying that since he was cancelled already he isn't afraid to say it and possibly offend potential progressive customers. Apparently he IS worried about offending potential customers though
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 01, 2020, 02:32:42 AM
tired of reading david shor interviews?  here's a wonderful opportunity to listen to a david shor interview instead.  couple of points i found interesting included that the media has more of an impact on a race than the candidates themselves (17ish minute mark) and pointing out the asymmetry that republican politicos tend to be more moderate than their base voters while dem politicos tend to be more extreme than their base voters (26ish minute mark).

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on December 01, 2020, 03:58:37 AM
lol. HAAAAARRRDDDD PASS
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 01, 2020, 04:19:50 AM
found another one.  covers a lot of the same ground.  if i was going to only listen to one, it'd probably be this one.  more thoughtful, less pithy.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on December 01, 2020, 10:58:11 AM
My familiarity to this guy is limited to his tweets that you post. Is there any methodology or independent research to these opinions he gives? A lot of what I see here seems like opinion backed by confirmation bias. For instance there is a lot of polling and research that disputes this.

Quote
pointing out the asymmetry that republican politicos tend to be more moderate than their base voters while dem politicos tend to be more extreme than their base voters

Seems like a dude enjoying the smell of his own farts.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on December 01, 2020, 11:24:50 AM
fwiw from what I understand almost all of his opinions/conclusions are underpinned by research, polling and analysis (could probably question how he synthesizes different things to come to an opinion). For the most part I don't see citations tho in articles, he def shares some on twitter.

I'm sure there is some research and polling, I just wonder how much of it is independent.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
fwiw from what I understand almost all of his opinions/conclusions are underpinned by research, polling and analysis (could probably question how he synthesizes different things to come to an opinion). For the most part I don't see citations tho in articles, he def shares some on twitter.

I was listening to the last podcast sys shared and he brought up the "average voter spends 6 hours a day watching TV" and cited Nielsen analysis. I called that out as bullshit when I heard it a while back so I looked for Nielsen data.

(https://www.nielsen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/multicultural-media-time-spent-q12020.png?w=1200)

https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2020/ballot-box-breakdown-looking-at-the-u-s-voter-and-media/

I suppose it's possible that the average voter spends over two and a half hours more watching TV than the average adult but that seems pretty unlikely and I don't want to spend all day looking for his data.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
I listened to the rest, I hated the host so goddam much.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 01, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
i think he says the median voter, not the average voter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 06:07:44 PM
i think he says the median voter, not the average voter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem

well he clearly said "average voter" a little after the 19th minute.

I still think a "median voter" watching that much TV is unlikely based on the Nielsen data I saw.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 01, 2020, 06:15:44 PM
he must have misspoke.  i've heard/read him say it enough times i can pretty much repeat it from memory - the median voter is a 50 year-old, white, non-college male that watches 5 hours of tv/day.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 09:22:46 PM
he must have misspoke.  i've heard/read him say it enough times i can pretty much repeat it from memory - the median voter is a 50 year-old, white, non-college male that watches 5 hours of tv/day.

He upped it to six and a half hours too!
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 09:24:44 PM


Shor is getting around more these days or do I just recognize him now?

Quote
Ultimately, in this hyperpolarized world, what national media outlets choose to talk about is going to be much more important in determining whether [Democratic Congressman] Collin Peterson survives in Minnesota’s 7th district than anything he does. That’s just the reality. [This month, Peterson lost his bid for reelection.]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/12/2020-election-analysis-democrats-future-david-shor-interview-436334

but yeah interesting article though.  I got to this and was like "WHAT?!?"

Quote
The average voter in a general election is something like 50 years old — in a midterm or primary, it’s higher. They don’t have a college degree. They watch about six hours of TV a day — that’s the average; there are people who watch more.

something about that seems off

other thoughts

-crazy he can point to ONE MISTAKE costing the 2016 election
-The white college educated shift to dems is an interesting one, especially the idea that they're sort of shoving out minorities
-he's got a huge boner for non-college whites. I don't know how his numbers work out but should Dems maybe focus on minorities that are shifting away before being racist-friendly? dunno
-he was less like a robot but still kinda roboty

He said average voter here too
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: 8manpick on December 01, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
Sounds like this Shor fella is a quack
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 01, 2020, 11:22:34 PM
i guess i couldn't quite recite it from memory.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2020, 11:58:14 PM
i guess i couldn't quite recite it from memory.

It's OK, I don't think Shor can either
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2020, 12:03:01 AM
I listened to the rest

(https://images.daznservices.com/di/library/sporting_news/31/23/klay-thompson-052715-vine-ftr_1b0zzq3uveg8z1mti5eezhb0vq.jpg?t=-1737297547&quality=100)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2020, 10:26:46 PM
Should probs Shor up this thread with a Hughes video interview  :driving: (I think this is dated)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_a113OGaTg
Oh God
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2020, 11:28:22 PM
Should probs Shor up this thread with a Hughes video interview  :driving: (I think this is dated)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_a113OGaTg

Get all the way the eff out of here
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 02, 2020, 11:48:20 PM
oh yeah, baby.  got my listening schedule mapped out for tonight.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 13, 2020, 03:07:37 PM
Guess this is a good as place as any for this. If you enjoy reading rando snapshots of how people view the world/US politics.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/13/letter-to-washington-20-americans-explain-2020-election-433756

that was an interesting read.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 16, 2020, 11:32:00 PM
imo, the best shor interview yet.  hayes is a good interviewer.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on December 16, 2020, 11:59:13 PM
imo, the best shor interview yet.  hayes is a good interviewer.


better than Coleman Hughes? :Wha:
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on December 29, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on January 11, 2021, 12:54:06 PM
I love The Intercept, and I'm happy to see them getting more traction. It's very easy for the media to point out conservative grift, there seems to be very little appetite for the corporate media to point out liberal hypocrisy.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on January 17, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
not great.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on January 17, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
not great.


Yes, this is scary
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: catastrophe on January 21, 2021, 10:21:12 PM
not great.


Yes, this is scary
Late to the party here but yes that is a big rough ridin' red flag.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: bucket on January 25, 2021, 09:16:41 PM
not great.


Yes, this is scary

This is a long read but it provides a much deeper look at the polling from the NBC article that sys posted.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on January 25, 2021, 11:25:04 PM
good article.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 26, 2021, 07:10:34 AM
If you want to stop partisan hatred then ProgFascists would be wise to stop putting guys like Norm Eisen to work everytime you lose an election.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on January 26, 2021, 02:00:14 PM
Those exclamation points are pure kRusty  :D
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 03, 2021, 05:34:43 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 04, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
mechanically, it's two things:  1) the share of non-white voters that are black is decreasing, so the share of non-white voters that votes republican goes up (but shor says from 2012 to 2020, this effect is very small), and 2) in 2020 the electorate repolarized a little more on education and a little less on race/ethnicity.

leaving aside the why, that's basically the how.  no college non-white voters voted for republicans a bit more and college white voters voted for them a bit less.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 20, 2021, 06:36:40 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2021, 07:17:12 PM
Counterpoint: political affiliations are religions
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 20, 2021, 07:22:21 PM
Counterpoint: political affiliations are religions

oh, that's reassuring.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on February 20, 2021, 08:49:44 PM
Counterpoint: political affiliations are religions

oh, that's reassuring.

Lol
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 22, 2021, 01:21:28 AM
finally transitioned from print and audio to video.  i found smith's interview style a little offputting, but otherwise a solid addition to the shor compendium.

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/video-interview-david-shor-political
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on February 24, 2021, 12:06:26 PM
entire thread is interesting.

/photo/1
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 01, 2021, 09:35:26 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: bucket on March 03, 2021, 12:18:17 PM

A lot of talk about how white liberals are to the left of Hispanic and Black Democrats on a number of issues.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on March 05, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
Maternity leave was one good thing I thought trump might be able to get through but they pretty much instantly dropped that after the 16 campaign.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 05, 2021, 10:05:20 PM
I think we probably already do too much to subsidize having kids.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 05, 2021, 10:12:51 PM
I think we probably already do too much to subsidize having kids.

one good thing about the stimulus bill child subsidy is that it's just an unpredictable one time thing so it shouldn't provide much of an incentive to create more children.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 06, 2021, 05:22:22 PM
this is interesting.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 07, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
my man can twirl.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on March 08, 2021, 01:03:10 AM
He was on meet the press today, talking himself in circles. I honestly respect Mitch McConnell more than I do Manchin. He and to a lesser extent Susan Collins are the poster people for term limits, which I actually don't believe in. They are professional politicians whose only goal is seemingly to do nothing but to get re-elected. It's too bad the voters tolerate this behavior.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: catastrophe on March 10, 2021, 12:08:46 PM
Also belongs in MAGA thread. “No one deserves a hand out but me” is peak MAGA.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Dugout DickStone on March 10, 2021, 12:29:16 PM
Also belongs in MAGA thread. “No one deserves a hand out but me” is peak MAGA.

Big fans of socialism
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 10, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
Maybe better in the post Trump GOP topic but interesting in regards to alignment and policy that the rest of the thread speaks towards


i'm almost certain that's correct.  it's a truism that is mostly true that voters don't punish lawmakers for voting against a bill that passes.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on March 10, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
Maybe better in the post Trump GOP topic but interesting in regards to alignment and policy that the rest of the thread speaks towards


?s=19
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 10, 2021, 05:37:44 PM
that's probably part of why voters don't tend to punish lawmakers for votes.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on March 21, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
Quote
The Senate is separately working out an agreement to bring back earmarks. Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said he would defer on the issue to Alabama Sen. Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee, and Shelby has said he's supportive. But Senate Republicans have been generally more receptive to earmarks than their House counterparts.


https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/17/house-gop-ends-earmark-ban-476696

Honestly I think this is the most positive step towards the GOP saying they want to wheel and deal and be bipartisan in drafting legislation.

That's an acceptable cost to you?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 21, 2021, 05:25:32 PM
bringing back earmarks would be a positive step, but probably insufficient to much change the paradigm (partly because the earmarks to be allowed are pretty strictly limited).
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on March 22, 2021, 10:11:32 AM
Earmarks aren't good governance, but they are certainly better than no governance. It's been all but impossible to fund major public works projects without them.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on March 24, 2021, 12:22:57 PM
Our democracy is a special kind of shitty. All of that is awful. Only in Washington could being forced to actually do your job could be wielded as a weapon.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on March 28, 2021, 02:43:16 PM
For some reason I'm enjoying the stupid twitter back and forth between Neolibs/libs with the DSA gov candidate in VA over housing affordability. California cats how long will this last before I hate it?
I'm numb to it but what side is each taking in VA?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on March 28, 2021, 02:44:25 PM
For some reason I'm enjoying the stupid twitter back and forth between Neolibs/libs with the DSA gov candidate in VA over housing affordability. California cats how long will this last before I hate it?

hmm, maybe 30 years?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on March 29, 2021, 11:50:19 AM
Zoning laws on their own, aren't an impediment to providing affordable housing, and I have no issue with zoning. How municipalities use zoning is very much problematic. Saying that you can't have affordable housing with zoning laws is like saying you can't have congressional districts without gerrymandering.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on March 29, 2021, 12:27:48 PM
I mean that's all kind of semantics to a degree imo.

I'm not in tune to this stuff all that much, but I don't get the idea that people want no, as in zero, regulation from zoning. What we have now is demonstratively bad if it makes it exceedingly difficult to build housing/apartments/whatever and denser housing in particular (I think with the idea that denser tends to give more relatively affordable options than mcmansions, plus potentially other social and environmental benefits).

yeah generally "no zoning" is really "no single family zoning". Single family zoning absolutely makes it more difficult to build affordable housing
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: 8manpick on March 30, 2021, 12:46:38 PM
On continued observation got me thinking more about rent seeking/speculation and what personal property taxes or a LVT are. DSA guy believes very much that wealthy people are driving up prices by holding onto what is now valuable property and not allowing it to be put to use. Which is a thing that makes sense as being possible and I'm sure is occurring, but I have no idea of the magnitude or if this is another flavor of eating the rich as the simple solution/capitalism sux.
There is a lot of rich (and also foreign rich) money tied up in high rise condos that get little use in Chicago and NYC. I assume this is true in other large cities as well.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on March 30, 2021, 12:49:36 PM
On continued observation got me thinking more about rent seeking/speculation and what personal property taxes or a LVT are. DSA guy believes very much that wealthy people are driving up prices by holding onto what is now valuable property and not allowing it to be put to use. Which is a thing that makes sense as being possible and I'm sure is occurring, but I have no idea of the magnitude or if this is another flavor of eating the rich as the simple solution/capitalism sux.
There is a lot of rich (and also foreign rich) money tied up in high rise condos that get little use in Chicago and NYC. I assume this is true in other large cities as well.

you also see quite a few instances of ludicrous rent increase -> eviction -> property sits vacant for months for commercial storefronts in high-rent areas.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: kim carnes on April 18, 2021, 08:03:18 PM
The only thing standing between michigancat and a 5000 sq ft place in cow hollow is zoning laws
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on April 25, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
i found this interesting.  i'm not wholly convinced on the sort of catholic right's providence from, or convergence with, puritanism, but the sort of instinctual, individualistic libertarianishness of trump's base strikes me as both accurate and consequential.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Chingon on April 26, 2021, 10:28:36 AM
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Chingon on April 26, 2021, 10:31:36 AM
This has been brewing for a long time.  The influence of Moldbug et al is quite significant these days.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on May 12, 2021, 07:28:26 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on May 13, 2021, 12:51:48 AM
No thanks.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on May 13, 2021, 08:34:39 PM
I'm kinda jealous of the Alaska final four elections. It's interesting that I've heard weaker political parties be the cause and solution to extreme partisanship.


Yes, I think that's right, however a meeting in the middle isn't ideal for people who are looking for transformative changes. For all of the partisanship of the last two decades or so, policy wise there has been very little difference on how the parties have governed and approached policy.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on May 14, 2021, 08:19:12 PM
White people in one of the most segregated states in America are scared of black people? NOWAY
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on June 10, 2021, 09:33:39 AM
Despite it always being all over twitter, I do my best to ignore New York politics. However, the issue of whether or not Eric Adams lives in New Jersey has caught my attention for it silliness.


vvv thread vvv


Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on June 10, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Despite it always being all over twitter, I do my best to ignore New York politics. However, the issue of whether or not Eric Adams lives in New Jersey has caught my attention for it silliness.


vvv thread vvv


That's wild. A while back two candidates thought the median home sale price on Brooklyn was under $100k, which was also pretty great.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/5/11/andrew-yang-nails-brooklyn-house-price-query-in-nyc-mayoral-race
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on June 10, 2021, 08:29:17 PM
he lives in his office.  i don't really get why this is being treated like a big mystery.


"it doesn't really look like this dude lives in this apt he owns that is his legal residence."

"yeah, he openly lives in his office.  everyone knows about it."

"oh, yeah.   :dunno:
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on June 12, 2021, 11:21:08 AM
Is this considered an HR 1 compromise? If not, why bother.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on June 12, 2021, 09:09:44 PM
I like the concept of RCV, never done it so I can't speak to the actual process or execution. It seems to me that RCV is more effective in local races, and maybe some state races. I don't know how it would help at all in gerrymandered house races, the point of gerrymandering is to get as many like minded, homogeneous voters in one race. RCV doesn't change that. Also with house and senate races the two parties will still coalesce around their chosen candidate.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 07, 2021, 05:46:09 PM
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 07, 2021, 06:46:03 PM
America being the greatest country in the world is an interesting cultural question.

some good commentary on that by yglesias and @mattgrossmann.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 07, 2021, 09:16:29 PM
I dunno what's another one like violence/sex in TV, music or video games?

i feel like we mostly just got tired of that as a political issue rather than people changing their minds on it, but i guess it's sort of the same thing.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on July 08, 2021, 10:32:09 AM
I'm not sure I completely agree with this account of the way things have changed. Or with the idea that there were two things and now there are four things. But there are some great reflections about the differing values of people today and how it is difficult for them to see eye to eye.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 08, 2021, 03:39:24 PM
that was very interesting.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on July 08, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
I'm not sure I completely agree with this account of the way things have changed. Or with the idea that there were two things and now there are four things. But there are some great reflections about the differing values of people today and how it is difficult for them to see eye to eye.

haven't read the article but listed to an interesting podcast talking about it last night.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2021, 08:48:06 AM
It's a pretty good representation of modern politically motivated white people.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on July 09, 2021, 08:54:35 AM
It's a pretty good representation of modern politically motivated white people.

Yeah, it seems like there would only be a handful of non-whites in any of those categories. Do other non-white views of America just not count here or what?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2021, 09:17:17 AM
Well politically motivated white people pretty much control politics in this country. I'm don't think the point was other views don't count, but they certainly do not have the amount of influence.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 09, 2021, 09:24:38 AM
What an enjoyable article.

Conservatives:  Hollowed out evil!

Libs:  Oh gosh, just a few ideological missteps along the way, but always on a correctable course

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: star seed 7 on July 09, 2021, 09:39:04 AM
Dax, it might be time for some self reflection if you think an accurate representation of conservatives (YOUR SIDE in daxspeak) comes across as hollowed out evil.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: 8manpick on July 09, 2021, 09:43:15 AM
I'm not sure I completely agree with this account of the way things have changed. Or with the idea that there were two things and now there are four things. But there are some great reflections about the differing values of people today and how it is difficult for them to see eye to eye.

Man, every Atlantic article is about 3 times as long as it should be.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 09, 2021, 09:45:16 AM
Dax, it might be time for some self reflection if you think an accurate representation of conservatives (YOUR SIDE in daxspeak) comes across as hollowed out evil.

There's an entire section of the article which in so many words paints the conservative movement from the 1980's to the 1990's as either vapid empty suits or hellbent to destroy the government mechanisms as we know them.   It's complete tripe derived from partisan Lib dogma.

It then paints the Clinton and Obama years with a sort of white knuckle angst full of good intentions, but with some gut wrenching self congratulating over the top platitudinal missteps sprinkled with some gringe worthy political stump disenfranchisement.

The author correctly, but only superficially marks the turn of ProgLibs into ProgFacists and only slightly touches on the full assimilation of the Liberal movement into everything that they used to hate. 


Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 09, 2021, 10:08:00 AM
It's a pretty good representation of modern politically motivated white people.

Yeah, it seems like there would only be a handful of non-whites in any of those categories. Do other non-white views of America just not count here or what?

i think most non-white, non-black americans would be decently accommodated by those categories.  black americans are pretty unique and a fifth category is probably needed to accommodate a lot of black americans.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on July 15, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
This schedule sounds like Hell. Not worth the prestige or whatever you get out of that job.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on July 28, 2021, 09:29:53 PM
interesting post.  so many problems with construction/land use in this country, and not much political will to change anything.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Kat Kid on July 28, 2021, 10:29:54 PM
I thought it was interesting but the passage about the Yellow Vest protests in France being “mostly white supremacist” is an odd charge without any supporting evidence. Stanning for Macron that hard is pretty funny.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on August 31, 2021, 07:17:21 PM
i'm sure my sampling is biased, but i see tons more people planning on retiring asap than planning on working forever.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on September 03, 2021, 10:59:10 PM
I always wonder with the retire early thing (I'd assume this means 50's), is it like a sabbatical for like 5 years or are they just done and onto hobbies, leisure, vacations, visits ect. I'm sure some do other things in their community that are beneficial too or maybe not hoa lol

My dad retired early to play golf and eff around, it lasted for two months before he wanted a job.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: steve dave on September 04, 2021, 07:56:57 AM
i'm sure my sampling is biased, but i see tons more people planning on retiring asap than planning on working forever.
I saw someone say the other day that they were talking to a climate scientist and they were like, “dude, it’s over. Go enjoy your time with your family and do what you love” and that was really scary to me but also made me think about not just the climate but how much energy I put into work and crap and is that really worth it?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on September 04, 2021, 08:33:48 AM
This sounds like the pre-MAGAfied GOP nightmare. Remember how they hated the lazy European work ethic of not working 40 hours per week and taking month long summer vacations?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on September 04, 2021, 09:37:35 AM
i'm sure my sampling is biased, but i see tons more people planning on retiring asap than planning on working forever.
I saw someone say the other day that they were talking to a climate scientist and they were like, “dude, it’s over. Go enjoy your time with your family and do what you love” and that was really scary to me but also made me think about not just the climate but how much energy I put into work and crap and is that really worth it?

You may not be able to buy happiness for yourself, but you sure as eff can for your kids.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 04, 2021, 03:05:03 PM
I saw someone say the other day that they were talking to a climate scientist and they were like, “dude, it’s over. Go enjoy your time with your family and do what you love” and that was really scary to me but also made me think about not just the climate but how much energy I put into work and crap and is that really worth it?

you probably do work too much and should relax and spend more time with your family instead of making money for your kids to enjoy when you're dead, but not because of that tweet.  that guy's an idiot.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: kim carnes on September 04, 2021, 03:10:53 PM
i'm sure my sampling is biased, but i see tons more people planning on retiring asap than planning on working forever.
I saw someone say the other day that they were talking to a climate scientist and they were like, “dude, it’s over. Go enjoy your time with your family and do what you love” and that was really scary to me but also made me think about not just the climate but how much energy I put into work and crap and is that really worth it?

This is something I’ve been thinking about every few weeks for the last 1-2 years
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: sys on September 08, 2021, 04:22:28 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/08/opinion/republicans-democrats-parties.html

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: MakeItRain on September 08, 2021, 09:50:43 PM
No surprise here
(https://i.ibb.co/BG4KTPd/Screenshot-20210908-214602.png)
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: steve dave on September 14, 2021, 06:25:32 AM
Be careful making politics your hobby.

Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 14, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
How do you get pelted with two eggs, but at the same time they both miss? 
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: mocat on September 14, 2021, 12:52:18 PM
this was everywhere yesterday. am i supposed to know who michael tracey is?
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Dugout DickStone on September 14, 2021, 01:09:00 PM
this was everywhere yesterday. am i supposed to know who michael tracey is?

No more so than Michael Tracey knows where the gym is
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on September 14, 2021, 01:20:38 PM
this was everywhere yesterday. am i supposed to know who michael tracey is?

he's a fairly major political contrarian on twitter.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: chum1 on September 14, 2021, 01:32:09 PM
I wouldn't be interested in going to watch him speak. I would be open to going to an auditorium to watch him sit in a chair on stage and silently tweet from his phone.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: Spracne on September 14, 2021, 03:40:36 PM
this was everywhere yesterday. am i supposed to know who michael tracey is?

he's a fairly major political contrarian on twitter.

No he's not.
Title: Re: political hobbyist thread
Post by: michigancat on September 14, 2021, 03:55:26 PM
this was everywhere yesterday. am i supposed to know who michael tracey is?

he's a fairly major political contrarian on twitter.

No he's not.
Hey!!!