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General Discussion => Essentially Flyertalk => Topic started by: MakeItRain on March 13, 2019, 09:42:32 PM
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If I missed the thread about this please forgive me and merge but how amazingly layered this thing is.
1. Are there really people out there clamoring for the FBI to devote the resources they did to this? Rich people using their money to get their kids into universities is the least shocking thing ever.
2. What an amazing racket the ringleader had. Someone paid him $1.2 million dollars to give a coach a $400,000 bribe. Holy crap, this guy made the easiest money ever. It will be waiting for him after he does his 16 months in club fed.
3. Who in the world bribes someone to get their kid into Texas Tech? WTF?
4. Why didn't these people just walk into the chancellor's office and offer to build a building?
5. Lori Laughlin getting a million dollar bail for $500,000 in bribes is rough ridin' outrageous. How does that make any sense?
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One more thing, women in their mid 30's talking SATs, how in the hell does that work?
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This is a pretty amazing story and also lol at how incredibly dumb rich people can be.
Also regarding point #5: Lori Laughlin, if you need anything at all, I'm here for you. Well anything except for your bail money but everything else is on the table.
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Lmao @ #3 is that for real
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I'm just pissed about the income I missed out on when I could have been taking ACTs and Stats for rich kids. Wasted my youth.
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I mean one of Lori’s daughters is (I guess was now?)a YouTube personality making 300k+ a year. Why even bother going to college?
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this thing is bonkers. but, I mean, does it shock anyone at all? I'm shocked the feds got involved. like, I'd imagine a good 20% of the old guard of congress are now phoning home to mom (probably RIP) with tears in their eyes.
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This is a very interesting subject to discuss with people irl. It's really a wildcard in terms of how people respond.
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Lmao @ #3 is that for real
ESPN had one of the coaches labeled Texas Tech on a graphic, twice, but they must have had a graphic fail because I can't find a published tie. Lots of public schools involved in this though and I just don't get that.
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This is a very interesting subject to discuss with people irl. It's really a wildcard in terms of how people respond.
I feel like the only people truly fired up about this is a very narrowly defined group, parents of kids who they were feel like they were wronged in the selection process and already resent rich people.
I think everyone assumed how this was done, it's unbelievably interesting how it was actually done in this case though. I mean this guy had to have made millions of dollars by doing nothing more than giving someone, someone else's money. It's like The Mule come to life, but only four rich people who use their children as status symbols.
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This is a very interesting subject to discuss with people irl. It's really a wildcard in terms of how people respond.
I feel like the only people truly fired up about this is a very narrowly defined group, parents of kids who they were feel like they were wronged in the selection process and already resent rich people.
I think everyone assumed how this was done, it's unbelievably interesting how it was actually done in this case though. I mean this guy had to have made millions of dollars by doing nothing more than giving someone, someone else's money. It's like The Mule come to life, but only four rich people who use their children as status symbols.
Yeah. I mean, privileged people somehow skirt the rules applicable to everyone else? *clutches pearls*
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Lmao @ #3 is that for real
ESPN had one of the coaches labeled Texas Tech on a graphic, twice, but they must have had a graphic fail because I can't find a published tie. Lots of public schools involved in this though and I just don't get that.
Pretty sure there was a UT coach
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I was surprised at how badly people wanted in USC. And I think there's no surprise that rich people will try to use their influence to help kids get to school, but paying for test fraud is pretty crazy. The scheme to have the coaches claim the kids are recruits is a pretty interesting/creative way to cheat.
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https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1106022074328469505
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lmao
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. Why didn't these people just walk into the chancellor's office and offer to build a building?
Really
Headline should read "Rich dumb parents get duped"
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I read that most of these people, while rich, are not rich enough to essentially donate a building.
USC is sort of interesting. Not noteworthy as academically prestigious. But possibly more exclusive than the average private school purely because so many rich kids want to go there. ??
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I also think they are doing it to boost the future acting careers of their kids. Looks better that they were smart enough to get into the likes of USC or Stanford vs LA Juco.
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I think it's great. Prosecute everyone to the fullest extent of the law, as a symbolic gesture more than anything else.
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not every texas kid can get into tech and not every California kid can get into usc. parents bribing to make it happen isn't surprising and yeah it seems like there is a lot of "lets make an example out of them" going on right now.
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I mean one of Lori’s daughters is (I guess was now?)a YouTube personality making 300k+ a year. Why even bother going to college?
she actually answered that question on a youtube vid. she wants to experience tailgates and parties.
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I mean one of Lori’s daughters is (I guess was now?)a YouTube personality making 300k+ a year. Why even bother going to college?
she actually answered that question on a youtube vid. she wants to experience tailgates and parties.
which, i mean, hell yeah.
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not every texas kid can get into tech and not every California kid can get into usc. parents bribing to make it happen isn't surprising and yeah it seems like there is a lot of "lets make an example out of them" going on right now.
it's more than bribing, it is all very hilarious.
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This is a very interesting subject to discuss with people irl. It's really a wildcard in terms of how people respond.
I feel like the only people truly fired up about this is a very narrowly defined group, parents of kids who they were feel like they were wronged in the selection process and already resent rich people.
I think everyone assumed how this was done, it's unbelievably interesting how it was actually done in this case though. I mean this guy had to have made millions of dollars by doing nothing more than giving someone, someone else's money. It's like The Mule come to life, but only four rich people who use their children as status symbols.
I've also seen quite a bit of reaction like this:
https://twitter.com/eveewing/status/1105548008475820033?s=19
https://twitter.com/Jasbeingjas037/status/1105586153485451265?s=19
And while everyone kind of knew about the buy a building-get into Harvard method, the amount of outright cheating and influence of coaches is pretty remarkable in this case
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4. Why didn't these people just walk into the chancellor's office and offer to build a building?
I think the answer is any one or more of the following:
1. Buildings are more expensive than doing it "illegitimately"
2. They want their kids to believe they did it on their own merit
3. They want their friends to believe their kids did it on their own merit
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it seems like a really great form of wealth redistribution. one kinda rich moron pays 5x more for his failson's education and 4 other students benefit.
i more comfortable with six figure amounts than the mega donations that get the donor's name on the building + the scion's acceptance. most education institutions require fancy new buildings about as much as they do their increasingly massive administrative departments
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it seems like a really great form of wealth redistribution. one kinda rich moron pays 5x more for his failson's education and 4 other students benefit.
i more comfortable with six figure amounts than the mega donations that get the donor's name on the building + the scion's acceptance. most education institutions require fancy new buildings about as much as they do their increasingly massive administrative departments
None of this money went to universities or poorer students, they were straight bribes to coaches and test proctors.
although I did hear the Stanford sailing coach funneled money into his program.
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I had no idea any of this stuff was a felony. I just assumed it's been happening for the history of time and that nobody cared. Yikes. Also seeing a lot of my minority friends getting really mad about this. Trying to wrap my head around that as well. Any rich person has probably been doing it, color of the individual aside.
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I think most people overestimate the value of the “prestige” schools relative to basic state schools. There are maybe 15 schools in the US that are worth paying more than basic in state tuition, IMO.
HOWEVER, if you are rich, go where you wanna go bro.
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The coaches’ involvement is probably most surprising (and disgusting) to me. Apparently some coaches were willing to put together fake documents and offer scholarships to kids for sports they didn’t even play?
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I think most people overestimate the value of the “prestige” schools relative to basic state schools. There are maybe 15 schools in the US that are worth paying more than basic in state tuition, IMO.
HOWEVER, if you are rich, go where you wanna go bro.
I’d change it to 5 schools, but the list changes drastically depending on where you want to live and what you want to do. Simply put, attending a certain school is worth much more to some people than others.
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The coaches’ involvement is probably most surprising (and disgusting) to me. Apparently some coaches were willing to put together fake documents and offer scholarships to kids for sports they didn’t even play?
Look no further than LHOFCBS.
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you guys are warped by going to K-State and doing ok in life. Getting in to a tier 1 public school is a big deal and if you are rich and in a state like Texas or California, the pressure to get your kid in to UT or the UC system is incredible.
Also, the UT tennis coach that got caught accepting bribes is an MHS grad.
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Pretty tough standard
University of Texas at Austin will automatically admit eligible Texas students in the top 6 percent of their high school graduating class
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legally mandated proportions of the incoming in-state freshman class at 75 percent automatically admitted students and 25 percent admitted through the holistic review process.
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/09/15/growth-in-texas-drives-automatic-admission-to-top-6-percent/
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Pretty tough standard
University of Texas at Austin will automatically admit eligible Texas students in the top 6 percent of their high school graduating class
...
legally mandated proportions of the incoming in-state freshman class at 75 percent automatically admitted students and 25 percent admitted through the holistic review process.
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/09/15/growth-in-texas-drives-automatic-admission-to-top-6-percent/
yeah, no kidding. best thing that ever happened to Texas A&M. Some kids with decent grades can't even get in there and have to go to Tech, or if they have cash, SMU.
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Some HUTAIQ going on in this thread. I'm impressed. I had difficulty explaining to a low UTAIQ person why I was not at all surprised to see UT lumped in with Yale and Stanford in this scam.
UT's admissions procedures are an interesting subject in themselves, but that discussion would derail this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.
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you guys are warped by going to K-State and doing ok in life. Getting in to a tier 1 public school is a big deal and if you are rich and in a state like Texas or California, the pressure to get your kid in to UT or the UC system is incredible.
Also, the UT tennis coach that got caught accepting bribes is an MHS grad.
I totally acknowledge that that is the way many people think, but I am just convinced that that plan is terrible for people who are not affluent. That debt load is not worth it. This is one of the reasons why I love this part of the country. It’s absolutely common place to easily get into undergrad in this part of the country, get a decent job, work hard and use that job to maybe jump a time or two to the next level and land at the same level as the fuckers who shelled out 5 times as much.
I was pretty lucky...got a huge break. My first real job was for a big accounting/consulting firm who hired a lot of kids from the big name schools as well as the state schools, and paid the big school kids more than the state school kids. You could never tell the difference after the bullets started flying. The state school kids ended up catching them, and many passed them.
However, some of the best folks we have these days started off in ho hum jobs out of small state schools, but learned a marketable skill in their first job, and we pick them up and pay them well and bam, they are brought up to the same level as big school kids.
I am going to strongly encourage my kids to go to KSU, KU or UMKC with in state tuition.
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Schools worth paying drastically more money for:
Stanford
Berkeley
CalTech
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
MIT
Duke
WashU
Any of the Jesuit schools
Northwestern
NYU?
Anything else?
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I read that most of these people, while rich, are not rich enough to essentially donate a building.
USC is sort of interesting. Not noteworthy as academically prestigious. But possibly more exclusive than the average private school purely because so many rich kids want to go there. ??
Someone paid a guy $1,200,000 to hand another person $400,000
This raises another question for me, if you're a coach of an Olympic sport, how in the hell are you making a 6 figure deposit without raising suspicion from the feds? Aren't banks required to report every deposit over $10,000? I think I've read that there's some kind of system in place that flags attempts to make several smaller deposits to skirt the fed reporting.
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Withdrawals
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I read that most of these people, while rich, are not rich enough to essentially donate a building.
USC is sort of interesting. Not noteworthy as academically prestigious. But possibly more exclusive than the average private school purely because so many rich kids want to go there. ??
Someone paid a guy $1,200,000 to hand another person $400,000
This raises another question for me, if you're a coach of an Olympic sport, how in the hell are you making a 6 figure deposit without raising suspicion from the feds? Aren't banks required to report every deposit over $10,000? I think I've read that there's some kind of system in place that flags attempts to make several smaller deposits to skirt the fed reporting.
The second point makes sense. As to the first point, I’m honestly surprised that it surprises you. The same critique applies to Uber Eats. They pay extra cause they’re lazy and don’t know how to do it themselves.
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Schools worth paying drastically more money for:
Stanford
Berkeley
CalTech
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
MIT
Duke
WashU
Any of the Jesuit schools
Northwestern
NYU?
Anything else?
I'm not sure I'd put any of the Ivies or the Jesuit schools on there. Probably not Wash U either unless you are referring to the medical school. The first one that immediately comes to mind are Juilliard and Harvey Mudd, places like that. I'd certainly agree with MIT and CalTech. I don't think much of the larger schools, yeah they're prestigious and have lots of applicants, but they also have lots of graduates, graduates doing the same crap we do. I think more of the schools that have limited graduates and a diploma means immediately getting a great career, not a good first job. Schools where the career day isn't filled with school districts, and businesses like PepsiCo, where the career fair is the students selecting where they're going to work and not vice versa.
This brings me to another baffling aspect of this, degrees from schools like UT, Stanford, UCLA, USC, and even Yale, and Harvard, to a certain extent, have a higher value to people like us than they do to the very rich. This is simply a status symbol for the parents, their kids are likely to get jobs either working for their parents or in jobs that their parent's connections helped them get. I work with this class of parents in my career, granted a lot more when I worked on the east coast. I've been doing this long enough that my first kids are now in their mid 30's and most of these kids went to very good schools like Lehigh, Colgate, Denver, Elon, Boston University then got very good jobs. Hell the richest former camper I have didn't even finish college, he smoked too much weed now he runs his parents commercial real estate business in lower Manhattan. How is this not enough? I don't think these scams are a big deal, but these people are some insecure crap birds.
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I read that most of these people, while rich, are not rich enough to essentially donate a building.
USC is sort of interesting. Not noteworthy as academically prestigious. But possibly more exclusive than the average private school purely because so many rich kids want to go there. ??
Someone paid a guy $1,200,000 to hand another person $400,000
This raises another question for me, if you're a coach of an Olympic sport, how in the hell are you making a 6 figure deposit without raising suspicion from the feds? Aren't banks required to report every deposit over $10,000? I think I've read that there's some kind of system in place that flags attempts to make several smaller deposits to skirt the fed reporting.
The second point makes sense. As to the first point, I’m honestly surprised that it surprises you. The same critique applies to Uber Eats. They pay extra cause they’re lazy and don’t know how to do it themselves.
The first point wasn't top express surprise, it was to illustrate that some of these people absolutely had to cash to just walk into the chancellor's office and offer up enough money to put up enough money to get some attention. Dlew's points 2 & 3 make a lot of sense.
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Also this is some grandstanding bull crap
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1106214037694619648
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These legal arguments are going to be interesting. I'm going to be smdh when they start analogizing to affirmative action jurisprudence, which will happen.
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I'm not going to go read all of these schools admission requirements, but I suspect that every one of them has all kinds of contingencies for admission that go well beyond grades and test scores.
IMO pure laziness and trying to take the easy route. Go visit, schmooze, understand all the additional contingencies like extracurricular activities, community service and the extra stuff I suspect most of these schools will take under consideration, particularly if you've gone in a kissed a few babies, pressed some flesh and worked a few contacts. Throw in a promise to endow a scholarship or something if you need to.
Couple all that with at least a viable test score, a viable GPA sprinkled with a few AP/Honors classes.
I suspect though, that few if any of these youngsters had any of that stuff, and thus weren't even remotely close to even being considered for conditional admission . . . which in some cases is probationary admission or similar.
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Yeah, Dax. I suspect these kids probably were not doing the things you typically need to do in order to get admitted to prestigious universities.
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Also this is some grandstanding bull crap
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1106214037694619648
I do not foresee anything coming of this other than their attorneys getting paid.
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Also seeing a lot of my minority friends getting really mad about this. Trying to wrap my head around that as well. Any rich person has probably been doing it, color of the individual aside.
https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1105543464417140737
https://twitter.com/JanetLorin/status/1108024420436791296
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You don't think there's an example of this for every ethnicity, bucket?
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You don't think there's an example of this for every ethnicity, bucket?
What do you mean?
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Whoa. Did she actually practice with this team???
Her fellow freshmen were heralded as the second-best recruiting class in the nation. It included the top recruit in the country, a member of the Canadian national team, and five players on the U.S. youth national team.
https://twitter.com/joelrubin/status/1108124703221141504
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You don't think there's an example of this for every ethnicity, bucket?
That's your takeaway from those two tweets?
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Besides those cases obviously being bullshit and awful? Do you feel like this is a minority issue overall? That's my question? I'm not sure why this ordeal is becoming a minority issue. Sounds like a lot of underprivileged people have probably received a raw deal out of this over time, no matter the race.
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Also, I never made it to his 2nd tweet. It's bucket, so I usually try for the cliffnote's version. Carry on.
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Besides those cases obviously being bullshit and awful? Do you feel like this is a minority issue overall? That's my question? I'm not sure why this ordeal is becoming a minority issue. Sounds like a lot of underprivileged people have probably received a raw deal out of this over time, no matter the race.
Black people getting the book thrown at them? Ya, seems to be a minority issue.
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You presented a 2011 case, bucket. You obvioulsy have an agenda/bias with everyone of your posts. Hard to take you serious.
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You presented a 2011 case, bucket. You obvioulsy have an agenda/bias with everyone of your posts. Hard to take you serious.
I'm bias'd because I believe the criminal justice system works against minorities? :lol:
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:dubious:
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Besides those cases obviously being bullshit and awful? Do you feel like this is a minority issue overall? That's my question? I'm not sure why this ordeal is becoming a minority issue. Sounds like a lot of underprivileged people have probably received a raw deal out of this over time, no matter the race.
I think the overall point is that the criminal justice system works very differently for different races and classes, I don't think that's the least bit controversial. 2011 wasn't the last time that anyone was jailed for fraud based on academic misconduct. I don't think any of these people belong in jail, except for the dude they were paying. However, if this was some a small business owner in Sabetha or the parent of an AAU basketball star in KCK brokering people paying to take ACT tests for their kids and friends, they'd be going to jail.
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Agreed. Ty. That’s all I was asking.
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so interesting question. I saw they popped Lori and Felicity on wire fraud and mail fraud. So if they'd just dropped a bag o cash instead of using the postal service and wire services what would they be charged with?
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To the extent there was any fraud involved, I would think you could always nab these people with conspiracy or aiding and abetting. You hear about mail/wire fraud a lot because it’s apparently pretty dang easy to prove.
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1110355203574910976
$10,000!? :horrorsurprise:
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1110355203574910976
$10,000!? :horrorsurprise:
If these rich people were so stupid, is there any wonder why their kids couldn't get into one of the roughly 100 schools acceptable to their equally dumbass friends?
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Did you guys see that Dr. Dre may get canned in this whole thing as well?
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That wouldn't check out with Bucket's theory here, so let's not discuss that one.
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Dre could have so easily just stayed out of the whole thing lol
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https://variety.com/2019/music/news/dr-dre-usc-daughters-tweet-deleted-felicity-huffman-usc-1203171304/
:Wha:
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It repeats the theme that these kids don’t care about Stanford, their parents do. It’s kind of sad they have to project their insecurities into their children.
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what is dre going to get canned from, the BoD of beats? that's not happening
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CAN HIS ASS
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God damnit, now Detox is never going to come out
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That wouldn't check out with Bucket's theory here, so let's not discuss that one.
How do you figure?
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Did you guys see that Dr. Dre may get canned in this whole thing as well?
You definitely read whatever you read wrong. He isn't in this scandal at all, he got his kid into USC the old fashion and legal way, he built an entire department.
God damnit, now Detox is never going to come out
:ROFL:
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Did you guys see that Dr. Dre may get canned in this whole thing as well?
You definitely read whatever you read wrong. He isn't in this scandal at all, he got his kid into USC the old fashion and legal way, he built an entire department.
God damnit, now Detox is never going to come out
:ROFL:
She doesn't wanna go to USC though according to friends and her past social media posts. LOL it's just funny that all of this happened around the same time!
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I'm considering canning Greg's ass.
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Did you guys see that Dr. Dre may get canned in this whole thing as well?
You definitely read whatever you read wrong. He isn't in this scandal at all, he got his kid into USC the old fashion and legal way, he built an entire department.
God damnit, now Detox is never going to come out
:ROFL:
She doesn't wanna go to USC though according to friends and her past social media posts. LOL it's just funny that all of this happened around the same time!
If he had even a tiny bit of self-awareness, and not made that post saying she got herself in, no one would have said or noticed a thing. Dude couldn't help himself.
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Just shows that bragging on your kids is universal
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This country stays locking people up for stupid crap. What is prison for anymore?
https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/03/lori-loughlin-felicity-huffman-plea-deal-prison-time-college-admission-scandal/?adid=hero3
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https://twitter.com/LSchmidtFox5/status/1232333038555664384
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
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imagine you have hot pockets money and ruin your life doing something like this. incredible.
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It's ridiculous that any of these people are going to jail.
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TIL that not only is there a Hot Pockets fortune, but there is an heiress to said fortune.
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Deep Pockets
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It's ridiculous that any of these people are going to jail.
Are they?
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It's ridiculous that any of these people are going to jail.
Are they?
Really short sentences for the ones that pled out. Probably will be longer ones for the parents that claim they didn't realize their family rowing photoshoot was being used to commit fraud.
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Yeah jail time is ridiculous for that.
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I don't even see why they should pay a fine.
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It takes public resources to pursue those cases. That’s a good reason for a fine.
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Nobody made them pursue the cases. If it is ok to bribe university administrations, it should also be ok to bribe university employees, imo. The university should fire those employees, but it shouldn't be a crime.
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Tax avoidance
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Tax avoidance
I haven't seen that charge. You mean on the people accepting the bribes?
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Yeah I just meant a reason to treat bribes to universities different than to employees.
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I can see it as defrauding the government and taxpayers given the resources invested in education. That makes the penalties seem more appropriate to me.
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i love how americans love to fill their prisons with potheads and helicopter parents, meanwhile their homeless problem has skyrocketed especially for vets
good old american apple pie
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I can see it as defrauding the government and taxpayers given the resources invested in education. That makes the penalties seem more appropriate to me.
I would see it that way if universities didn't accept bribes to let kids in all the time as part of their policy.
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It's ridiculous that any of these people are going to jail.
QFMFT
It's ridiculous that any of these people are going to jail.
Are they?
Really short sentences for the ones that pled out. Probably will be longer ones for the parents that claim they didn't realize their family rowing photoshoot was being used to commit fraud.
So far the UT Tennis coach, of course by far the least wealthy person involved, got the longest sentence, 6 months.
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Hot Pockets lady got 5 months.
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Dumb
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Hot Pockets lady got 5 months.
:sdeek:
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Laurie Loughlin is still pleading not guilty, right? Hopefully she can get a hung jury or something.
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I don't really have a problem with these people going to jail for a bit :dunno: I don't know that it's necessary but I care a lot more about a shitload of other injustices than this one.
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UIN really wants to eat the rich
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I don't really have a problem with these people going to jail for a bit :dunno: I don't know that it's necessary but I care a lot more about a shitload of other injustices than this one.
I don’t have a strong opinion as to whether it’s unjust. It’s a complete waste of public resources and is exactly the type of public policy that does more harm than good to society, though.