Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 01:51:44 PM
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1094747501578633216
So now you can't disagree with Israeli foreign policy without being branded as an anti-Semite? Nancy Pelosi and the rest of these democrats are no better than the Republicans they look down their noses at. They get to Washington and then their only goal is to stay in Washington, it's gross.
Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2019, 01:59:19 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2019, 02:11:32 PM
As I said in another thread, she might as well be Henry Gibson from Blues Brothers telling the gathered crowd how the Jews control the global financial system.
But only the left is allowed to point out (and subsequently melt down about) the dog whistle moments.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 02:27:12 PM
Interestingly, she has yet to apologize for her tweets smearing the Catholic kids. I guess they don't have a strong enough lobby.
Oh, and btw, there's this....
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216
Hmmmm...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 02:36:26 PM
She "unequivocally apologized" for the tweet, so I guess she's a gutless, paid for, coward, too?
Interestingly, she has yet to apologize for her tweets smearing the Catholic kids. I guess they don't have a strong enough lobby.
Oh, and btw, there's this....
https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216
Hmmmm...
Jesus, you can't ever drop the party line at all, ever, you're a rough ridin' robot. Her apology has nothing to do with the shameful false outrage and the misrepresentation of anti-Semitism. Even the tweet you posted, from seven rough ridin' years ago, lol, is if anything anti-Zionist.
Why does she need to apologize to Catholics?
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2019, 02:48:43 PM
Nancy Pelosi and the rest of these democrats are no better than the Republicans
Sort of nitpicking here, but I'd say that the fact that Democratic party leadership (unfortunately!) didn't have her back is a way they differ from Republican party leadership. Republicans are happy to remain silent on overt racism. Democrats apologize for things that could be construed as racist only on the most uncharitable possible interpretation.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 02:52:21 PM
Google the Covington stuff. Ilhan Omar is a moron (she's right up there with Occassional Cortex on the dumbass scale) so if you want to point out the Israel stuff, fine, but I wouldn't go to bat too hard for this chick. (There's also some pretty interesting theories and information floating around that she married her own brother to commit immigration/welfare fraud. The media is quick to point out that these claims have been denied and are unproven, but that doesn't mean much when journalists are studiously avoiding digging into the matter.)
https://alphanewsmn.com/take-a-walk-through-ilhan-omars-controversial-marriage-history/ (https://alphanewsmn.com/take-a-walk-through-ilhan-omars-controversial-marriage-history/)
https://pjmedia.com/davidsteinberg/official-school-records-support-claims-that-rep-ilhan-omar-d-mn-married-her-brother/ (https://pjmedia.com/davidsteinberg/official-school-records-support-claims-that-rep-ilhan-omar-d-mn-married-her-brother/)
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
Nancy Pelosi and the rest of these democrats are no better than the Republicans
Sort of nitpicking here, but I'd say that the fact that Democratic party leadership (unfortunately!) didn't have her back is a way they differ from Republican party leadership. Republicans are happy to remain silent on overt racism. Democrats apologize for things that could be construed as racist only on the most uncharitable possible interpretation.
Sure, I suppose so. The same Republicans that are crying about Omar didn't grave crap to say about this.
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1055170806949523458
Post by: CHONGS on February 11, 2019, 02:57:25 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 03:04:37 PM
Chill bud. I was making a joke about the typical liberal talking point "well if ___ didn't do anything wrong, why'd he apologize?" Fun when the shoe is on the other foot.
Google the Covington stuff. Ilhan Omar is a moron (she's right up there with Occassional Cortex on the dumbass scale) so if you want to point out the Israel stuff, fine, but I wouldn't go to bat too hard for this chick. (There's also some pretty interesting theories and information floating around that she married her own brother to commit immigration/welfare fraud. The media is quick to point out that these claims have been denied and are unproven, but that doesn't mean much when journalists are studiously avoiding digging into the matter.)
1. I'm not a Democrat
2. Attempting false equivalencies is a very poor way to try to influence someone to see your point
3. I'm not googling anything about Omar and Covington. If you couldn't immediately recall what made you so hurt, that was less than a month ago, I'm guessing it was false outrage. It's also a pretty safe bet that if a woman Muslim said something even close to objectionable about Catholics, Nancy and the crew would be falling all over themselves to make her apologize, and it would have become a national scandal, right up there with Bubba and his cigar. I mean, I've gotten literally 8 breaking news alerts because she had the temerity to suggest that politicians are influenced by lobbyists.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 03:06:41 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
LOL wow
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2019, 03:18:10 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
:lol: Just where in any of my posts in regards to this matter did I say I was in support of AIPAC, Chin? The dumbfounding part is the political movement that sees, okay, hears, dog whistles all the time, won't acknowledge the dog whistle here.
Israel should disclose their Nuclear arsenal . . . and unfortunately because your guy never met a secular regime he didn't want out of power and/or liked to wreck countries ceding them to hardcore Islamic entities, that leaves Israel as the last remaining secular Democracy in the Middle East, so selling them weapons comes with the territory.
Nice dumpster dive though.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 03:31:46 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
:lol: Just where in any of my posts in regards to this matter did I say I was in support of AIPAC, Chin? The dumbfounding part is the political movement that sees, okay, hears, dog whistles all the time, won't acknowledge the dog whistle here.
Israel should disclose their Nuclear arsenal . . . and unfortunately because your guy never met a secular regime he didn't want out of power and/or liked to wreck countries ceding them to hardcore Islamic entities, that leaves Israel as the last remaining secular Democracy in the Middle East, so selling them weapons comes with the territory.
Nice dumpster dive though.
You clearly stated that the Democrat run white house was bought and paid for buy AIPAC. Although maybe not because I have no idea who in the eff Ron Emanuel is.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 03:35:10 PM
Chill bud. I was making a joke about the typical liberal talking point "well if ___ didn't do anything wrong, why'd he apologize?" Fun when the shoe is on the other foot.
Google the Covington stuff. Ilhan Omar is a moron (she's right up there with Occassional Cortex on the dumbass scale) so if you want to point out the Israel stuff, fine, but I wouldn't go to bat too hard for this chick. (There's also some pretty interesting theories and information floating around that she married her own brother to commit immigration/welfare fraud. The media is quick to point out that these claims have been denied and are unproven, but that doesn't mean much when journalists are studiously avoiding digging into the matter.)
1. I'm not a Democrat
2. Attempting false equivalencies is a very poor way to try to influence someone to see your point
3. I'm not googling anything about Omar and Covington. If you couldn't immediately recall what made you so hurt, that was less than a month ago, I'm guessing it was false outrage. It's also a pretty safe bet that if a woman Muslim said something even close to objectionable about Catholics, Nancy and the crew would be falling all over themselves to make her apologize, and it would have become a national scandal, right up there with Bubba and his cigar. I mean, I've gotten literally 8 breaking news alerts because she had the temerity to suggest that politicians are influenced by lobbyists.
Here you go: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/426635-omar-deletes-tweet-on-covington-students-trump (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/426635-omar-deletes-tweet-on-covington-students-trump) She has since deleted her tweets for fear of getting sued for libel, but has not apologized. It's an interesting contrast between this and her response to the anti-Israel tweets.
There's also a great example of "Republicans seize" liberal media spin in this story!
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 03:40:11 PM
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
I was making a joke about the typical liberal talking point "well if ___ didn't do anything wrong, why'd he apologize?"
I'm not familiar with that "typical liberal talking point" at all. I am, however, familiar with "well if Trump guy didn't do anything wrong, why'd he plead guilty?"
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 03:42:03 PM
i do think omar's tweet was slightly antisemitic, but i'm more interested in how it was super stupid. if you think american politicians are pro-israel because of donations you're very delusional.
I pointed this out as well, but Omar is nearly as stupid as AOC. They're a lot of fun.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 03:43:28 PM
I was making a joke about the typical liberal talking point "well if ___ didn't do anything wrong, why'd he apologize?"
I'm not familiar with that "typical liberal talking point" at all. I am, however, familiar with "well if Trump guy didn't do anything wrong, why'd he plead guilty?"
Yes, that's similar, and similarly stupid. People plead to crap all the time not because they think they're guilty but because they're afraid of fighting it and draining their bank account / losing.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
:lol: Just where in any of my posts in regards to this matter did I say I was in support of AIPAC, Chin? The dumbfounding part is the political movement that sees, okay, hears, dog whistles all the time, won't acknowledge the dog whistle here.
Israel should disclose their Nuclear arsenal . . . and unfortunately because your guy never met a secular regime he didn't want out of power and/or liked to wreck countries ceding them to hardcore Islamic entities, that leaves Israel as the last remaining secular Democracy in the Middle East, so selling them weapons comes with the territory.
Nice dumpster dive though.
You clearly stated that the Democrat run white house was bought and paid for buy AIPAC. Although maybe not because I have no idea who in the eff Ron Emanuel is.
. . . and that has nothing to do with this situation, and was all about the duplicity of that administration in regards to Israel. There is no duplicity in regards to Israel in this administration and once again, I'm not extolling the virtues of AIPAC in any way . . . and the calendar says it's a decade later.
Again, just recognize the dog whistle statement in play here, and lets all move on.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 03:48:20 PM
i do think omar's tweet was slightly antisemitic, but i'm more interested in how it was super stupid. if you think american politicians are pro-israel because of donations you're very delusional.
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
Post by: CHONGS on February 11, 2019, 03:49:07 PM
Yes there was, from evangelicals.i do think omar's tweet was slightly antisemitic, but i'm more interested in how it was super stupid. if you think american politicians are pro-israel because of donations you're very delusional.
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 03:53:17 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
:lol: Just where in any of my posts in regards to this matter did I say I was in support of AIPAC, Chin? The dumbfounding part is the political movement that sees, okay, hears, dog whistles all the time, won't acknowledge the dog whistle here.
Israel should disclose their Nuclear arsenal . . . and unfortunately because your guy never met a secular regime he didn't want out of power and/or liked to wreck countries ceding them to hardcore Islamic entities, that leaves Israel as the last remaining secular Democracy in the Middle East, so selling them weapons comes with the territory.
Nice dumpster dive though.
You clearly stated that the Democrat run white house was bought and paid for buy AIPAC. Although maybe not because I have no idea who in the eff Ron Emanuel is.
. . . and that has nothing to do with this situation, and was all about the duplicity of that administration in regards to Israel. There is no duplicity in regards to Israel in this administration and once again, I'm not extolling the virtues of AIPAC in any way . . . and the calendar says it's a decade later.
Again, just recognize the dog whistle statement in play here, and lets all move on.
Wait, this has nothing to do with the administration, don't move the goalposts. If what Omar said is a dog whistle, Israel has politicians bought and paid for, then you saying RAHM Emanuel was bought and paid for is the same dog whistle. Good day.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 03:56:26 PM
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
89% of americans support israel. not only that, but it's a fairly salient issue. for a not insignificant fraction of voters it is their most important issue.
sane politicians don't go against the overwhelming opinion of their voters.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 11, 2019, 04:02:34 PM
Hey Ben when is the United States going to make Israel disclose it's Nuclear Arsenal??
Don't hold your breath as long as Ron "AIPAC" Emanuel is COS.
Love all of our "tough talk" on Israel, yet we just keep right on selling them weapons and giving them billions of dollars in aid.
:lol: Just where in any of my posts in regards to this matter did I say I was in support of AIPAC, Chin? The dumbfounding part is the political movement that sees, okay, hears, dog whistles all the time, won't acknowledge the dog whistle here.
Israel should disclose their Nuclear arsenal . . . and unfortunately because your guy never met a secular regime he didn't want out of power and/or liked to wreck countries ceding them to hardcore Islamic entities, that leaves Israel as the last remaining secular Democracy in the Middle East, so selling them weapons comes with the territory.
Nice dumpster dive though.
You clearly stated that the Democrat run white house was bought and paid for buy AIPAC. Although maybe not because I have no idea who in the eff Ron Emanuel is.
. . . and that has nothing to do with this situation, and was all about the duplicity of that administration in regards to Israel. There is no duplicity in regards to Israel in this administration and once again, I'm not extolling the virtues of AIPAC in any way . . . and the calendar says it's a decade later.
Again, just recognize the dog whistle statement in play here, and lets all move on.
Wait, this has nothing to do with the administration, don't move the goalposts. If what Omar said is a dog whistle, Israel has politicians bought and paid for, then you saying RAHM Emanuel was bought and paid for is the same dog whistle. Good day.
:lol: Once again, just where did I even hint that AIPAC and Israel doesn't weld influence? Emanuel held dual citizenship in Israel and the United States until he was 18 years old. Move the goalposts :lol: the same ol same ol from you.
If a Republican would have come out and basically said the Jews and their money control America, LibDerp Nation would have lost their mind.
What did I say? I clearly said I was calling out the duplicity of the previous administration; talk tough about Israel out of one side of their mouth, sell Israel arms out the back door. I've never even hinted that Israel doesn't have influence over the current administration. FFS :rolleyes:
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 04:07:50 PM
Yes there was, from evangelicals.i do think omar's tweet was slightly antisemitic, but i'm more interested in how it was super stupid. if you think american politicians are pro-israel because of donations you're very delusional.
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
Um, with some, definitely not all. I might be the only liberal on this board who was raised Southern Baptist, yes even in Garden City. I literally left the church because I got old enough to understand the negative slant some religious leaders took on Jews, in churches I attended in GC and Oklahoma.
The following link does speak to the long time marriage out evangelicals and Jews that you mentioned. However, it does mention the universal acceptance in the late 20th century. I think this is due to the Republicans becoming the religion of evangelicals and the fear of Islam occupation of the West Bank.
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2017/12/11/understanding-evangelical-obsession-israel
Quote
Dispensationalism has a centuries-long history and enjoys widespread acceptance among American Christians. The 19th century Bible teacher John Nelson Darby is considered to be the father of dispensationalism. His views were codified in and popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible. This theology spread throughout America in the 1800s with the help of evangelists such as Dwight L. Moody, but it was catapulted to new levels of popularity in the mid- to late-20th century.
This article is not about evangelicals but about Israel and Republicans
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-gop-became-a-pro-israel-party/
Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2019, 04:10:38 PM
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
89% of americans support israel. not only that, but it's a fairly salient issue. for a not insignificant fraction of voters it is their most important issue.
sane politicians don't go against the overwhelming opinion of their voters.
I think PAC money impacts Israeli support among the public, too. There's some nuance into how lobbyists work and public opinions are formed. I would guess the defense lobby influences Israeli opinion as well.
Also I think whatever stat you quoted was pretty misleading, this shows "favorability" at 74%. (Which is still high to be sure, but somewhat different from "support").
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/poll-results-americans-favor-israel-at-highest-rates-since-1990s-1.5905998
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 04:14:59 PM
Let's explore this. You're clearly splitting hairs here. I do think there are a lot of liberal politicians viewpoints on Israel are influenced by lobbyists. I think a lot of Republicans viewpoints on Israel are influenced by Islamaphobia. There was no pro Zion push from Republicans until 9/12/2001.
89% of americans support israel. not only that, but it's a fairly salient issue. for a not insignificant fraction of voters it is their most important issue.
sane politicians don't go against the overwhelming opinion of their voters.
I don't even know what "supporting Israel" means in the context of this conversation, hell in any context. I would assume that supporting Israel means you believe Israel should exist. I'm sure that over 89% of Americans support America but think that lobbyists have undue influence on our politics. It would be very easy for a politician to have a pro Israel stance yet not agree with every single foreign policy stance they take.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 04:27:17 PM
Post by: bucket on February 11, 2019, 04:31:51 PM
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 04:34:20 PM
I think PAC money impacts Israeli support among the public, too. There's some nuance into how lobbyists work and public opinions are formed. I would guess the defense lobby influences Israeli opinion as well.
Also I think whatever stat you quoted was pretty misleading
i saw it on twitter somewhere this morning. i can't recall where.
at some point pro-israel sentiment and pro-israel policy become self-reinforcing. but that point was a long, long time in the past. if you want me to believe that money is a significant factor in influencing either, i need to see some data.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 04:35:35 PM
It would be very easy for a politician to have a pro Israel stance yet not agree with every single foreign policy stance they take.
lots of politicians do that.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 04:37:25 PM
https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1095013552866377728
Post by: ChiComCat on February 11, 2019, 04:38:19 PM
Anybody mention yet that Ilhan Omar (D) likely married her brother?
Is anybody going to mention a baseless claim lacking any supporting evidence? Yes. A resident Trumper reliably will.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 04:51:27 PM
apart from any other considerations - that's not even very much money.
https://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary?cycle=2018&id=TXS2
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=Q05&cycle=2018&recipdetail=S&mem=N
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 04:58:30 PM
just to use one headlining example. for the 2018 race, beto raised 79 million and got 227k from pro-israel sources. cruz raised 45 million and got 353k from pro-israel sources.
apart from any other considerations - that's not even very much money.
https://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary?cycle=2018&id=TXS2
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=Q05&cycle=2018&recipdetail=S&mem=N
This is a very similar argument that pro NRA people make. 353K is a significant amount of money and it's also, like the NRA, coupled with a strong marketing arm. Who the hell wants to be labeled antisemitic because you think Bibi is an extremist?
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 05:00:01 PM
My only concern is why single out AIPAC? I hate lobbying as a whole.
That's the thing, she didn't, they jumped on.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Anybody mention yet that Ilhan Omar (D) likely married her brother?
Is anybody going to mention a baseless claim lacking any supporting evidence? Yes. A resident Trumper reliably will.
Luckily sys, rusty, and chingon have driven this to a rational conversation and moved it past ksuw's wack job conspiracies and dax's hypocrisy.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 05:11:29 PM
This is a very similar argument that pro NRA people make.
and they're right about that too. politicians aren't afraid of nra money, they're afraid of nra voters.
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2019, 05:28:15 PM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 11, 2019, 05:45:02 PM
Anybody mention yet that Ilhan Omar (D) likely married her brother?
Is anybody going to mention a baseless claim lacking any supporting evidence? Yes. A resident Trumper reliably will.
Luckily sys, rusty, and chingon have driven this to a rational conversation and moved it past ksuw's wack job conspiracies and dax's hypocrisy.
In 2002, Omar became engaged to Ahmed Hirsi. The couple applied for a marriage license, but the application was not finalized. The couple had two children together before supposedly separating in 2008. Ilhan described Hirsi as her “cultural husband” and “father of my children.”
In 2009, Omar married Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, a British citizen. In 2011, she and Elmi separated and she “reconciled” with Hirsi. She and Hirsi had a third child in 2012. In 2017, she and Elmi were legally divorced, and in 2018, she and Hirsi were legally married.
So she started off with Hirsi, had kids with him, then “separated” from him to marry Elmi, then eventually reconciled with Hirsi before eventually divorcing Elmi.
So who is this Elmi dude? (He’s her brother). Well, Ilhan says her father is “Nur Said Elmi Mohamed.” Hey, that’s a weird coincidence - Ahmed’s “last name” is Nur Said Elmi! This follows Somali naming conventions. In a 2013 Instagram post, Elmi referred to Ilhan’s daughters as his “nieces.” That’s really strange thing to say for a dude who isn’t her brother (he is).
Ilhan Omar’s response to all this is “these are disgusting lies.”
The media’s investigation has, naturally, been: “she says these are lies, so good enough for us.”
So in addition to being a dumbass and an anti-Semite, Ilhan Omar committed immigration fraud by marrying her brother. That’s Ilhan Omar (D) - newly minted U.S. Congresswoman!
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 06:30:31 PM
This is a very similar argument that pro NRA people make.
and they're right about that too. politicians aren't afraid of nra money, they're afraid of nra voters.
Distinction without a difference. The NRA is a powerful voice that many people rally behind. If there were no NRA tomorrow the pro gun NRA supporters would still exist but I assure you there would be sensible gun legislation within two years of the lobby going tits up.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 06:42:53 PM
Distinction without a difference. The NRA is a powerful voice that many people rally behind. If there were no NRA tomorrow the pro gun NRA supporters would still exist but I assure you there would be sensible gun legislation within two years of the lobby going tits up.
i think it matters quite a bit. when people talk about money influencing politics, it is usually with the intimation that money should not influence politics - frequently with the idea that it is illegitimate or anti-democratic for politicians to have been influenced by donors and that there is a lack of popular support or legitimate basis for a politician to have held whatever positions were claimed to have been influenced.
whereas, a group of citizens banding together to argue for their shared interests and collectively persuading politicians that they should adopt the positions advocated by the group is kinda the way democracy is supposed to work. politicians representing the interests of their constituents.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 06:44:04 PM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tomgara/lol-everything-matters
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2019, 07:10:47 PM
I don't have a major problem with this. But I think her own apology is FAR superior to dem leadership's.
Forgot my link
https://twitter.com/NaomiAKlein/status/1095089301396819968
Post by: chum1 on February 11, 2019, 07:24:14 PM
i'm not sure i'm persuaded by the author's thesis, but i liked reading it.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tomgara/lol-everything-matters
It's not correct to say that Trump is a complete failure. But I agree with the gist that there appears to be a dilemma between acting morally and playing to win.
Post by: gatoveintisiete on February 11, 2019, 07:27:42 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 10:16:06 PM
Distinction without a difference. The NRA is a powerful voice that many people rally behind. If there were no NRA tomorrow the pro gun NRA supporters would still exist but I assure you there would be sensible gun legislation within two years of the lobby going tits up.
i think it matters quite a bit. when people talk about money influencing politics, it is usually with the intimation that money should not influence politics - frequently with the idea that it is illegitimate or anti-democratic for politicians to have been influenced by donors and that there is a lack of popular support or legitimate basis for a politician to have held whatever positions were claimed to have been influenced.
whereas, a group of citizens banding together to argue for their shared interests and collectively persuading politicians that they should adopt the positions advocated by the group is kinda the way democracy is supposed to work. politicians representing the interests of their constituents.
How do you explain pharma? Our national policies on pharmaceuticals are completely antithetical to the interests and desires of the electorate, yet they are allowed free reign in this country. And of course them, along with another universally panned industry, insurance, are the largest lobbies in the country.
Everyone loves teachers and agree that education is important. The NEA has no where close to the influence that the NRA or AIPAC has.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 10:35:28 PM
How do you explain pharma? Our national policies on pharmaceuticals are completely antithetical to the interests and desires of the electorate, yet they are allowed free reign in this country. And of course them, along with another universally panned industry, insurance, are the largest lobbies in the country.
i share the view that the big pharma lobby influences policy to their benefit. i didn't know the insurance industry was disliked. i like insurance.
Post by: MakeItRain on February 11, 2019, 11:36:47 PM
How do you explain pharma? Our national policies on pharmaceuticals are completely antithetical to the interests and desires of the electorate, yet they are allowed free reign in this country. And of course them, along with another universally panned industry, insurance, are the largest lobbies in the country.
i share the view that the big pharma lobby influences policy to their benefit. i didn't know the insurance industry was disliked. i like insurance.
So pharma's money is capable of influencing but the gun lobby and the pro Zionist lobbies are not? How is that line drawn?
No one likes paying thousands of dollars for health insurance to get the opportunity to pay thousands of dollars more for health care and essential medications.
Post by: sys on February 11, 2019, 11:47:27 PM
health insurance is expensive because health care is expensive.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 12:40:50 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 12:45:35 AM
https://twitter.com/themossadil/status/1095211374337232896?s=21
Post by: dal9 on February 12, 2019, 01:01:06 AM
-so many "almost as dumb as AOC" takes above...Omar is significantly dumber (and worse at twitter)
-"fun" fact: one of Jada's lines in All About the Benjamins (last word usually censored) is "You should do what we do // stack chips like a Hebrew"
edit: remembered it as Kim's line, apparently not
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 01:05:22 AM
there is more money and fewer voters for our policies on pharma development and pricing, so it makes more sense to assume the money is influencing policy.Like what do you think the purpose of AIPAC is?
health insurance is expensive because health care is expensive.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 01:54:38 AM
-^Not necessarily a bad question, but points off for being an impostor "Mossad" account
-so many "almost as dumb as AOC" takes above...Omar is significantly dumber (and worse at twitter)
-"fun" fact: one of Jada's lines in All About the Benjamins (last word usually censored) is "You should do what we do // stack chips like a Hebrew"
edit: remembered it as Kim's line, apparently not
You mean, that’s not the real Mossad? #stunned
Post by: catastrophe on February 12, 2019, 08:03:48 AM
Post by: 8manpick on February 12, 2019, 08:10:01 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 08:19:58 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 08:57:00 AM
Also were Oman's comments on Israel a hot button issue among the constituents of Bakersfield? (The comments before the tweet, the ones that McCarthy said were worse than Steve King)there is more money and fewer voters for our policies on pharma development and pricing, so it makes more sense to assume the money is influencing policy.Like what do you think the purpose of AIPAC is?
health insurance is expensive because health care is expensive.
I get that it's a little different since he's minority leader, but I really don't know how important Israel-related issues are in the central valley. It certainty wasn't as listed as an issue on his campaign website.
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 01:31:39 PM
Like what do you think the purpose of AIPAC is?
Quote
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee is a lobbying group that advocates pro-Israel policies to the Congress and Executive Branch of the United States.
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 01:33:18 PM
I get that it's a little different since he's minority leader.
Post by: 8manpick on February 12, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 12, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
Congrats LibDerp Nation, you've put a Jihadist in Congress.
To be fair, gerrymandering put this con artist moron into Congress. Some investigative journalism could have headed this off, but you know how it goes. Democrat.
Married. Her. Brother.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 03:54:12 PM
I still don't think it's an issue most Americans are very sensitive to. Even if people are supportive, it's pretty low on the list of priorities when compared to things like gun rights and abortion. Lobbying money has an impactI get that it's a little different since he's minority leader.
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
like when voters are for a policy that politicians support, you don't have to go looking for the hidden conspiracy theory. politicians are for what their constituents want them to be for. mystery solved, you can move on to the next puzzle.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
large numbers of voters are vaguely for it and a small but significant number of voters have it as their most important issue.
like when voters are for a policy that politicians support, you don't have to go looking for the hidden conspiracy theory. politicians are for what their constituents want them to be for. mystery solved, you can move on to the next puzzle.
I agree with the first part. I don't think anyone was looking for a conspiracy theory, though, just pointing out that McCarthy likely made Israel a higher priority than his constituents do in part because of lobbying influence.
It isn't like Ted Cruz talking about gun laws in Texas, which is more likely to be a hot button issue with his conservative constituents
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 04:10:40 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 04:19:27 PM
do you think pelosi mostly talks about stuff of great concern to her district or talks about stuff relevant to leading her caucus?
I mean I think Nancy Pelosi is very heavily influenced by lobbying efforts too. Her stance on this probably goes against the wishes a not-insignificant portion of her constituency.
https://missionlocal.org/2019/01/how-many-hoops-must-manny-yekutiel-jump-through-before-hes-deemed-worthy-to-do-business-in-the-mission/
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
i also don't think it is at all accurate to equate lobbying with donations. imo, the influence of lobbying is probably most pernicious in replacing staff in drafting legislation.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 05:04:35 PM
i have no opinion on how influenced pelosi or mccarthy are by lobbying money in general. my point is that their roles in leadership largely to completely supersede their roles as representatives for their districts.
I mean you said it was stupid to for Omar to think McCarthy was influenced by lobbying money, so you clearly have SOME opinion.
i also don't think it is at all accurate to equate lobbying with donations. imo, the influence of lobbying is probably most pernicious in replacing staff in drafting legislation.
Agreed, I don't think it's accurate to equate a tweet saying "all about the benjamins baby" to be strictly interpreted as a reference to donations.
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 05:15:36 PM
I mean you said it was stupid to for Omar to think McCarthy was influenced by lobbying money, so you clearly have SOME opinion.
my opinions are: a) that when a policy is popular with voters, it is stupid to look any farther than that popularity to explain why a politician supports it, b) that congressional leadership de facto have national constituencies.
I don't think it's accurate to equate a tweet saying "all about the benjamins baby" to be strictly interpreted as a reference to donations.
i don't know how else to interpret those words. they literally express the sentiment that it is entirely about money.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 05:23:29 PM
I mean you said it was stupid to for Omar to think McCarthy was influenced by lobbying money, so you clearly have SOME opinion.
my opinions are: a) that when a policy is popular with voters, it is stupid to look any farther than that popularity to explain why a politician supports it, b) that congressional leadership de facto have national constituencies.
yeah and I think Israel is disproportionately represented in congress relative to its popularity. The AIPAC wouldn't need keep existing and receiving money if it wasn't influencing politicians.
I don't think it's accurate to equate a tweet saying "all about the benjamins baby" to be strictly interpreted as a reference to donations.
i don't know how else to interpret those words. they literally express the sentiment that it is entirely about money.
I mean when pressed she explicitly referenced a lobbying group, which can't donate. I have always considered lobbying money to influence politicians even if they can't directly donate to campaigns, maybe that's a new concept for you.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 05:28:09 PM
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 05:41:21 PM
The AIPAC wouldn't need keep existing and receiving money if it wasn't influencing politicians.
just like a successful politician can't ignore voters and expect to continue to be popular... i also think that we are at a point where pro-israel policies are ceasing to be broadly popular among voters of both parties and are instead becoming popular among 'pubs and very divisive among dems. so aipac actually has a very difficult job to do in trying to, at the very least, delay that trend among democratic politicians.
I mean when pressed she explicitly referenced a lobbying group, which can't donate. I have always considered lobbying money to influence politicians even if they can't directly donate to campaigns, maybe that's a new concept for you.
she didn't say "it's all about the lobbying, baby" i mean that's kinda the whole reason people went off on her as using antisemitic language. she simplified a complex dynamic down to "the international jew is buying politicians".
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 05:47:41 PM
The AIPAC wouldn't need keep existing and receiving money if it wasn't influencing politicians.
just like a successful politician can't ignore voters and expect to continue to be popular... i also think that we are at a point where pro-israel policies are ceasing to be broadly popular among voters of both parties and are instead becoming popular among 'pubs and very divisive among dems. so aipac actually has a very difficult job to do in trying to, at the very least, delay that trend among democratic politicians.
oh yeah I think Pelosi's response had way more to do with their influence than McCarthy's initial comments.
she didn't say "it's all about the lobbying, baby" i mean that's kinda the whole reason people went off on her as using antisemitic language. she simplified a complex dynamic down to "the international jew is buying politicians".
yeah I guess I saw the AIPAC tweet first and followed it back. When I had the full picture it seemed like an odd thing to freak out over, but I'm also not hypersensitive to perceived anti-antisemitism.
Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
I don't have a major problem with this. But I think her own apology is FAR superior to dem leadership's.
Forgot my link
https://twitter.com/NaomiAKlein/status/1095089301396819968
On the other hand, why even bother to be reasonable?
https://twitter.com/JuliaManch/status/1095375320801267713
Post by: Phil Titola on February 12, 2019, 05:50:13 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 12, 2019, 05:52:40 PM
Knocked the VA racists and women beaters out of the news, so good circling of the wagons on that LibDerp Nation.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 06:07:54 PM
Post by: Phil Titola on February 12, 2019, 06:12:09 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 12, 2019, 06:14:55 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on February 12, 2019, 07:17:52 PM
I mean you said it was stupid to for Omar to think McCarthy was influenced by lobbying money, so you clearly have SOME opinion.
my opinions are: a) that when a policy is popular with voters, it is stupid to look any farther than that popularity to explain why a politician supports it, b) that congressional leadership de facto have national constituencies.
What policy, sys? When you called Omar stupid, there was no policy being discussed. I sure hope you're not going to hold up that moronically nebulous 89% of Americans supporting Israel as the proof that McCarthy's supposed support of Israel is based on his constituents instead of a lobby.
Post by: Spracne on February 12, 2019, 07:23:19 PM
It didn't strike me as necessarily Antisemitic, either. But maybe I suffer from the same infirmity as you.The AIPAC wouldn't need keep existing and receiving money if it wasn't influencing politicians.
just like a successful politician can't ignore voters and expect to continue to be popular... i also think that we are at a point where pro-israel policies are ceasing to be broadly popular among voters of both parties and are instead becoming popular among 'pubs and very divisive among dems. so aipac actually has a very difficult job to do in trying to, at the very least, delay that trend among democratic politicians.
oh yeah I think Pelosi's response had way more to do with their influence than McCarthy's initial comments.she didn't say "it's all about the lobbying, baby" i mean that's kinda the whole reason people went off on her as using antisemitic language. she simplified a complex dynamic down to "the international jew is buying politicians".
yeah I guess I saw the AIPAC tweet first and followed it back. When I had the full picture it seemed like an odd thing to freak out over, but I'm also not hypersensitive to perceived anti-antisemitism.
Post by: chum1 on February 12, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on February 12, 2019, 07:49:19 PM
It didn't strike me as necessarily Antisemitic, either. But maybe I suffer from the same infirmity as you.The AIPAC wouldn't need keep existing and receiving money if it wasn't influencing politicians.
just like a successful politician can't ignore voters and expect to continue to be popular... i also think that we are at a point where pro-israel policies are ceasing to be broadly popular among voters of both parties and are instead becoming popular among 'pubs and very divisive among dems. so aipac actually has a very difficult job to do in trying to, at the very least, delay that trend among democratic politicians.
oh yeah I think Pelosi's response had way more to do with their influence than McCarthy's initial comments.she didn't say "it's all about the lobbying, baby" i mean that's kinda the whole reason people went off on her as using antisemitic language. she simplified a complex dynamic down to "the international jew is buying politicians".
yeah I guess I saw the AIPAC tweet first and followed it back. When I had the full picture it seemed like an odd thing to freak out over, but I'm also not hypersensitive to perceived anti-antisemitism.
No, anti-Semitic is 100% misapplied in this case. If you want to say that she should have been more sensitive to the stereotype that Jews' money runs X, then that's fine, and it's why she ultimately apologized, but she wasn't being racist. AIPAC has some level of influence in Washington, they're not the only lobby that has influence. How is it racist to acknowledge their influence but not racist to point out the influence of other lobbyists and pacs?
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 07:50:43 PM
What policy, sys? When you called Omar stupid, there was no policy being discussed. I sure hope you're not going to hold up that moronically nebulous 89% of Americans supporting Israel as the proof that McCarthy's supposed support of Israel is based on his constituents instead of a lobby.
in my statement that you quoted, any policy. with re. to omar, i understood her to be discussing pro-israel policies in general. i've already addressed my thoughts on congressional leaderships' constituency in my response to michigan.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 08:02:20 PM
What policy, sys? When you called Omar stupid, there was no policy being discussed. I sure hope you're not going to hold up that moronically nebulous 89% of Americans supporting Israel as the proof that McCarthy's supposed support of Israel is based on his constituents instead of a lobby.
in my statement that you quoted, any policy. with re. to omar, i understood her to be discussing pro-israel policies in general. i've already addressed my thoughts on congressional leaderships' constituency in my response to michigan.
no, she was referring to this Greenwald tweet:
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1094727576013193216
referencing this article:
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/kevin-mccarthy-promises-action-against-ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-1.6917751
Post by: Spracne on February 12, 2019, 08:04:29 PM
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 08:10:32 PM
no, she was referring to this Greenwald tweet
yeah, i think understanding it be referencing pro-israel policies in general is the correct read.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 08:20:17 PM
no, she was referring to this Greenwald tweet
yeah, i think understanding it be referencing pro-israel policies in general is the correct read.
lol
Post by: dal9 on February 12, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
-^Not necessarily a bad question, but points off for being an impostor "Mossad" account
-so many "almost as dumb as AOC" takes above...Omar is significantly dumber (and worse at twitter)
-"fun" fact: one of Jada's lines in All About the Benjamins (last word usually censored) is "You should do what we do // stack chips like a Hebrew"
edit: remembered it as Kim's line, apparently not
You mean, that’s not the real Mossad? #stunned
just doesn't seem like an account that a person in great mental health would start
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 10:13:37 PM
no, she was referring to this Greenwald tweet
yeah, i think understanding it be referencing pro-israel policies in general is the correct read.
lol
greenwald's tweet states that it is stunning that us politicians 1) defend israel and 2) do so even if it means attacking the 1st ammendment rights of us citizens. i'd love to see you amass what evidence you can that omar is more notable as a defender of free speech than as a critic of israel. or that mccarthy is more notable as a critic of free speech than as a defender of israel.
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 10:23:33 PM
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 10:39:00 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 12, 2019, 11:46:04 PM
well, for one thing, i have absolutely no idea what may be a song lyric and what might not be.
the musical notes were a pretty good clue
Post by: Trim on February 12, 2019, 11:51:11 PM
Post by: sys on February 12, 2019, 11:58:44 PM
the musical notes were a pretty good clue
a clue that imparts no meaningful information. how am i supposed to infer her meaning differently if she is quoting a lyric or if she isn't?
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2019, 07:16:57 AM
Post by: catastrophe on February 13, 2019, 09:06:51 AM
Post by: Phil Titola on February 13, 2019, 09:50:40 AM
Or were there more disgusting messages?
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 14, 2019, 10:29:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE)
This chick appears to be barely literate. She can’t even read the “questions” written for her.
Post by: chum1 on February 14, 2019, 11:59:43 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 14, 2019, 12:34:09 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 01:14:46 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Who is brave enough to acknowledge this woman is a moron and a fraudster sent to Congress by a gerrymandered district? She’s all yours, Dems. The future is bright!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE)
This chick appears to be barely literate. She can’t even read the “questions” written for her.
She really just belongs to the dems in her district. Trump belongs to every republican in America.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 14, 2019, 03:22:44 PM
I enjoy people who voted for trump questioning the intelligence or literacy of other politicians as though they think it should be disqualifying
The new LibDerp7 Tap Out go to.
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 14, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
Who is brave enough to acknowledge this woman is a moron and a fraudster sent to Congress by a gerrymandered district? She’s all yours, Dems. The future is bright!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE)
This chick appears to be barely literate. She can’t even read the “questions” written for her.
She really just belongs to the dems in her district. Trump belongs to every republican in America.
Fairish point. At least all the pubs who voted for him in the primary.
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 04:20:45 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 14, 2019, 04:20:56 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 04:25:30 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on February 14, 2019, 05:11:20 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 14, 2019, 05:14:19 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 14, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
I only got three choices in the general. Trump, Clinton, or throwaway. I made the right choice.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2Bsq5PDmU
Post by: MakeItRain on February 15, 2019, 12:53:13 PM
Who is brave enough to acknowledge this woman is a moron and a fraudster sent to Congress by a gerrymandered district? She’s all yours, Dems. The future is bright!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=InGCmxCjaWE)
This chick appears to be barely literate. She can’t even read the “questions” written for her.
Did this link to a different video than what kkksu thinks it does? I missed anything that could be construed as "barely literate." Questionable tactics but it seemed to me her questioning was clear, certainly was to the dude sitting there.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2019, 01:20:11 PM
Post by: catastrophe on February 15, 2019, 01:55:16 PM
Imagine spending every waking hour defending 8 years of one of the worst and most ineffective presidencies in U.S. history.
Only six more years and you won’t have to imagine!
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2019, 02:08:43 PM
Imagine spending every waking hour defending 8 years of one of the worst and most ineffective presidencies in U.S. history.
Only six more years and you won’t have to imagine!
Gonna be a long slog cleaning up Barry's messes.
Some unpopular stuff is going to have to be done as LibDerp Nation attempts to preserve at all costs Barry's awful legacy.
Post by: bucket on February 28, 2019, 11:30:52 AM
Post by: wetwillie on February 28, 2019, 11:34:57 AM
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 04:43:17 PM
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/03/05/ilhan-omar-explaining-the-latest-antisemitism-allegations
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 05:30:01 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 05:36:38 PM
i wouldn't beat yourself up over it. lots of americans are pretty "ignorant" about antisemitism.I'm not beating myself up
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 05:49:24 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 05:53:25 PM
Honestly where I grew up in Kansas I legit didn't realize anti semitism was still much of a thing at all when I was a kid. Like I definitely recognized and observed pretty bad racism against all kinds of other groups but didn't hear much about hating Jews.
Same
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Post by: star seed 7 on March 06, 2019, 05:54:27 PM
Honestly where I grew up in Kansas I legit didn't realize anti semitism was still much of a thing at all when I was a kid. Like I definitely recognized and observed pretty bad racism against all kinds of other groups but didn't hear much about hating Jews.
Yeah, I was just thinking about how I can't ever even remember an instance of antisemitism in my life other than some dumb kids spray painting swastikas at my high school but that was likely more racially motivated.
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 06:13:14 PM
i wouldn't beat yourself up over it. lots of americans are pretty "ignorant" about antisemitism.I'm not beating myself up
odd. i must have completely misread your post.
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 06:21:35 PM
Honestly where I grew up in Kansas I legit didn't realize anti semitism was still much of a thing at all when I was a kid. Like I definitely recognized and observed pretty bad racism against all kinds of other groups but didn't hear much about hating Jews.
there was a really good noah smith twitter thread about america a few weeks back. the gist of which was that americans like to consider the us to be a nation that fought fascism in ww2 because it is a country that believes in democracy, equality, etc. but it may be more accurate to understand that to the extent that the us is committed to those values it is because we fought against fascist countries in that war.
Post by: chum1 on March 06, 2019, 06:30:26 PM
americans like to consider the us to be a nation that fought fascism in ww2 because it is a country that believes in democracy, equality, etc.
I've never really heard this before. I've heard people retrospectively take pride in Jesse Owens dunking on Hitler.
Post by: chum1 on March 06, 2019, 06:31:34 PM
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 06:33:55 PM
I've heard people retrospectively take pride in Jesse Owens dunking on Hitler.
yeah, that's a good example.
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 06:36:50 PM
My first real exposure to Jews was definitely after I moved away from Kansas.
i grew up (in kansas!) on a street with both israeli jew (one) and palestinian arab (one) families.
Post by: wetwillie on March 06, 2019, 06:42:12 PM
My first real exposure to Jews was definitely after I moved away from Kansas.
Yea me too, the amount of Jews living in Kansas is basically a rounding error.
Post by: catastrophe on March 06, 2019, 07:43:56 PM
2019 is the year where I learned a lot about "anti-Semitic tropes" that I had no idea existed
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/03/05/ilhan-omar-explaining-the-latest-antisemitism-allegations
We once had a representative from a Jewish rights organization come and speak at our work and her first question was to name some of the common Jewish stereotypes that were out there.
Fortunately I work with a lot of smart people and no one took the bait.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2019, 07:47:37 PM
It’s not a dog whistle unless we’re offended. (SysWhackadoo and resident LibDerp Nation).
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2019, 07:48:41 PM
My first real exposure to Jews was definitely after I moved away from Kansas.
Yea me too, the amount of Jews living in Kansas is basically a rounding error.
FFS, where did you live?
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 07:54:08 PM
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Post by: Spracne on March 06, 2019, 07:54:21 PM
Honestly where I grew up in Kansas I legit didn't realize anti semitism was still much of a thing at all when I was a kid. Like I definitely recognized and observed pretty bad racism against all kinds of other groups but didn't hear much about hating Jews.
there was a really good noah smith twitter thread about america a few weeks back. the gist of which was that americans like to consider the us to be a nation that fought fascism in ww2 because it is a country that believes in democracy, equality, etc. but it may be more accurate to understand that to the extent that the us is committed to those values it is because we fought against fascist countries in that war.
This is called bootstrapping, fwiw. In this instance, bootstrapping is a pejorative.
Post by: wetwillie on March 06, 2019, 08:18:36 PM
My first real exposure to Jews was definitely after I moved away from Kansas.
Yea me too, the amount of Jews living in Kansas is basically a rounding error.
FFS, where did you live?
Salina. There are only 17,000 Jews living in Kansas dude.
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 08:25:01 PM
And I grew up outside of Wichita
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 08:27:21 PM
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Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 08:28:09 PM
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Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 08:40:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PmkwWEJ.png)
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 08:43:06 PM
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Post by: 8manpick on March 06, 2019, 08:44:40 PM
I knew nothing of Jewish persecution other than what was taught about the Holocaust in school. Read "The Chosen" freshman year HS and it may have well been about aliens.
I married a Jewish girl, though she stopped practicing shortly after her Bat Mitzvah. People casually say mumped up anti-Semitic crap constantly. Without thinking of it.
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 08:48:56 PM
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Post by: 8manpick on March 06, 2019, 08:50:55 PM
We have UP TO THREE Jewish mods here. Which is an incredible ratio.EXPLAINS A LOT!
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:blank:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2019, 08:55:27 PM
Explains a lot. Lot of over correcting on here because of lack of diversity exposure in your youth(s).
Post by: michigancat on March 06, 2019, 09:01:38 PM
Explains a lot. Lot of over correcting on here because of lack of diversity exposure in your youth(s).
who's "over correcting"?
Post by: sys on March 06, 2019, 09:19:20 PM
It’s not Antisemitism until we say it is. (SysWhackadooand resident LibDerp Nation).
It’s not a dog whistle unless we’re offended. (SysWhackadoo and resident LibDerp Nation).
heh.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 06, 2019, 09:46:13 PM
Explains a lot. Lot of over correcting on here because of lack of diversity exposure in your youth(s).
who's "over correcting"?
Go look in the mirror
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2019, 10:26:56 PM
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Post by: Spracne on March 06, 2019, 11:02:31 PM
Post by: michigancat on March 07, 2019, 01:02:44 AM
I find it interesting that the largest religious group in both Meade and Harper County is "another Christian faith."There are a few "non-denominational" Christian churches and a fairly large Mennonite population in Harper County at least
Post by: steve dave on March 07, 2019, 01:26:05 AM
I find it interesting that the largest religious group in both Meade and Harper County is "another Christian faith."
Meade also has a large Mennonite community (used to have a separate school even). Also I think it’s the Evangelical catch all category
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Post by: OK_Cat on March 07, 2019, 06:45:43 AM
Clinton’s prob killed them
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Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 07, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
Dax, explain that please
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Explain what over correcting means?
cRusty is a great example. He tries so hard.
I think it’s inner guilt. #dontknow
Post by: michigancat on March 07, 2019, 09:28:46 PM
Post by: bucket on March 08, 2019, 09:14:57 AM
Close the thread, guys
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 08, 2019, 10:39:57 AM
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/03/08/ilhan-omar-dean-phillips-minnesota-democratic-party-225696
Quote
Omar says the “hope and change” offered by Barack Obama was a mirage. Recalling the “caging of kids” at the U.S.-Mexico border and the “droning of countries around the world” on Obama’s watch, she argues that the Democratic president operated within the same fundamentally broken framework as his Republican successor.
Yet LibDerp Nation marched with jackbooted zeal at the behest of their guy.
Sad
Post by: Kat Kid on March 08, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on March 08, 2019, 04:20:46 PM
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/how-should-we-talk-about-the-israel-lobbys-power.html?utm_source=tw (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/how-should-we-talk-about-the-israel-lobbys-power.html?utm_source=tw)
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2019, 11:06:14 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
It's just amazingly weird.
Post by: mocat on March 12, 2019, 11:19:36 AM
What kind of person watches any 24/7/365 news outlet all day and hangs on their every word?
It's just amazingly weird.
the president of the united states :frown:
Post by: star seed 7 on March 12, 2019, 11:20:59 AM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
What kind of person watches any 24/7/365 news outlet all day and hangs on their every word?
It's just amazingly weird.
the president of the united states :frown:
24/7/365?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on March 12, 2019, 11:24:58 AM
pwned :lol:
:lol: never thought I'd see LibDerp7 Parody Poster come across as being more dumb than usual, but, here we are.
Post by: Kat Kid on March 12, 2019, 11:28:09 AM
What kind of person watches any 24/7/365 news outlet all day and hangs on their every word?
It's just amazingly weird.
the president of the united states :frown:
24/7/365?
oh come on
Post by: treysolid on March 12, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on March 12, 2019, 10:41:33 PM
I find it interesting that the largest religious group in both Meade and Harper County is "another Christian faith."
Meade also has a large Mennonite community (used to have a separate school even). Also I think it’s the Evangelical catch all category
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There was a guy who, at the time, I considered a friend but in retrospect he was a massive racist to me and pretty much everyone not WASPy. Anyway he would use some form of the phrase "he jewed me" on a regular basis. I didn't know what that meant, until I started working at summer camp after I graduated from K-State. Luckily I didn't learn by repeating it. This was the same context I learned what JAP meant. I was horrified when I heard a parent say it, I asked my boss and he explained that it wasn't a pejorative for Japanese person but it meant Jewish American Princess.
What's the context for quoting this particular post? Growing up in GC I literally knew 10x as many Mennonites that didn't speak English than I knew Jewish and black people, who were not family. The non English speaking Mennonites in GC frequently came into Dillons where I worked and they seemed scared of me.
Post by: MakeItRain on March 12, 2019, 10:50:09 PM
https://twitter.com/elivalley/status/1104023152651313152
https://twitter.com/elivalley/status/1104085254648840192
https://twitter.com/elivalley/status/1104518614185635840
Post by: michigancat on March 12, 2019, 11:57:02 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on March 13, 2019, 07:28:59 AM
Post by: star seed 7 on March 13, 2019, 07:34:05 AM
Post by: mocat on March 13, 2019, 07:37:54 AM
Nevermind, sarcasm is hard on the internetYeah a checks notes might've been helpful there
:D
Post by: sys on March 26, 2019, 04:19:32 PM
https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1110629377245622272
Post by: MakeItRain on April 08, 2019, 12:59:25 PM
BETO! Wow
Beto O'Rourke: Netanyahu is 'racist'
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/07/politics/beto-orourke-israel-netanyahu/index.html
Post by: steve dave on April 08, 2019, 01:00:28 PM
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Post by: MakeItRain on April 08, 2019, 01:25:55 PM
Well, he is pretty racist
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Oh, I agree, can't really say that though, especially as a presidential candidate. No matter how you feel about Bibi, Beto, or Israel, this is the most significant thing said by a candidate this cycle. This goes way beyond anything Ilhan said, I'll be interested to see how it's received and covered.
Post by: sys on April 08, 2019, 01:27:22 PM
:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:
BETO! Wow
Beto O'Rourke: Netanyahu is 'racist'
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/07/politics/beto-orourke-israel-netanyahu/index.html
the fact that this is surprising to people is evidence of how far off the mark some of the beto reporting has been.
Post by: MakeItRain on April 08, 2019, 01:34:00 PM
:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:
BETO! Wow
Beto O'Rourke: Netanyahu is 'racist'
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/07/politics/beto-orourke-israel-netanyahu/index.html
the fact that this is surprising to people is evidence of how far off the mark some of the beto reporting has been.
There's your blind spot showing again, but this time it's selling your guy short. There's nothing courageous or ground breaking on thinking it, there sure is in saying it though. I love that he beat every single other candidate to the punch on saying this out loud, even Bernie Sanders hasn't gone that far.
Post by: sys on April 08, 2019, 01:36:16 PM
Post by: sys on April 08, 2019, 01:38:26 PM
https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/1115088145484341248
Post by: sonofdaxjones on April 08, 2019, 01:53:40 PM
Post by: mocat on April 08, 2019, 02:08:01 PM
It's interesting to see those that enjoy the rights and privileges bestowed upon them by manifest destiny calling anyone occupying lands obtained during the course of war and from whence potential occupiers sprung forth . . . racist. But here we are.
:lol:
Post by: sonofdaxjones on April 08, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
It's interesting to see those that enjoy the rights and privileges bestowed upon them by manifest destiny calling anyone occupying lands obtained during the course of war and from whence potential occupiers sprung forth . . . racist. But here we are.
:lol:
Israel has debated the West Bank for years internally. But it's quite clear that LibDerp Nation has either forgotten why Israel occupies the West Bank and the Golan Heights, or (the one I'd go with personally) doesn't understand or know how it all came about.
One would think that occupiers would understand other occupiers better.
Post by: MakeItRain on April 08, 2019, 04:20:01 PM
i'd argue it's not a blind spot, so much as i watch a lot of his events and i've seen him saying this stuff before. he was a little bolder this time, but it's in the vein of his standard response on israel.
Are you going to constantly remind us of this whenever a Beto policy position gets brought up, or should we just discuss hats and skateboards?
Post by: sys on April 08, 2019, 04:44:04 PM
it's hard.
Post by: chum1 on April 09, 2019, 06:14:19 PM
Post by: sys on April 14, 2019, 09:01:01 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on April 28, 2019, 11:35:33 AM
But LibDerp Nation is rallying the jackboots and circling the wagons like they always do.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/44e26348e6464eee7bce4b26fab4fec4.jpg)
LibDerp Nation: Its not racism until we say so
Post by: IPA4Me on April 28, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
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Post by: MakeItRain on April 28, 2019, 10:39:41 PM
Post by: sonofdaxjones on April 29, 2019, 08:00:57 AM
LibDerp Nation would be throwing another tanker of jet fuel on the fire even after the apology if the subject of the racism were slightly different.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on June 23, 2019, 02:09:46 PM
Circling the wagons in 3 2 1 . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on August 17, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-partnered-with-vicious-anti-semites-to-plan-their-trip-to-israel/
Post by: Spracne on August 17, 2019, 04:50:35 PM
Top-notch first sentence. Really drew me in. A+ drafting.
Post by: Kat Kid on August 17, 2019, 05:01:55 PM
The Democratic Party: The most dangerous political party in the world, filled with hate, vitriol and rage
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-partnered-with-vicious-anti-semites-to-plan-their-trip-to-israel/
Saying the Democrats are “the most dangerous political party in the world” is like tuning in to some Wednesday night MACtion and hearing a coach with solid midwestern accent claim his team “shocked the world” by going on the road as a double digit dog and taking down Northern Illinois.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on August 17, 2019, 05:51:32 PM
The Democratic Party: The most dangerous political party in the world, filled with hate, vitriol and rage
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-partnered-with-vicious-anti-semites-to-plan-their-trip-to-israel/
Saying the Democrats are “the most dangerous political party in the world” is like tuning in to some Wednesday night MACtion and hearing a coach with solid midwestern accent claim his team “shocked the world” by going on the road as a double digit dog and taking down Northern Illinois.
From sex traffickers to anti-Semites, there's no one LibDerp Nation won't align themselves with as long as they're anti-Trump/make Trump look bad (in their minds).
Post by: Kat Kid on August 17, 2019, 06:09:10 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 17, 2019, 08:23:02 PM
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Post by: LickNeckey on August 17, 2019, 09:17:56 PM
The Democratic Party: The most dangerous political party in the world, filled with hate, vitriol and rage
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-partnered-with-vicious-anti-semites-to-plan-their-trip-to-israel/
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-charlotte-north-carolina-mayor-racist-letter-threatening-20190817-xka25oewdrg23miy235slsirwq-story.html
Post by: sonofdaxjones on August 18, 2019, 12:08:56 PM
Now we have this LibDerp Slap fight brewing, it appears that Kat Kid didn't bother to read the article I posted:
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1162767093730881537?s=20
Post by: sonofdaxjones on August 18, 2019, 12:09:37 PM
The Democratic Party: The most dangerous political party in the world, filled with hate, vitriol and rage
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ilhan-omar-and-rashida-tlaib-partnered-with-vicious-anti-semites-to-plan-their-trip-to-israel/
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-charlotte-north-carolina-mayor-racist-letter-threatening-20190817-xka25oewdrg23miy235slsirwq-story.html
Anonymous letters . . .
Post by: MakeItRain on March 11, 2022, 12:25:04 AM
https://twitter.com/CJPME/status/1502034060465557505