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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: star seed 7 on February 07, 2019, 11:18:26 AM
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https://twitter.com/trish_regan/status/1093321447437750272
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He's going to be an amazing senator for Kansas
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Venezuela is not worth it.
But FFS Parody Poster LibDerp7, Its 2019
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/23/in-venezuelas-toxic-brew-failed-narco-state-meets-iran-backed-terrorism/
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https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/08/us-military-warns-of-threat-from-chinese-run-space-station-in-argentina/
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pretty incredible talking point that hizbollah has moved in to Venezuela.
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pretty incredible talking point that hizbollah has moved in to Venezuela.
You clearly didn't read the FP article.
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pretty incredible talking point that hizbollah has moved in to Venezuela.
You clearly didn't read the FP article.
sweet christ dax, that article is two years old, literally no one is afraid of Venezualan Hezbullah terrorists
are you suggesting we invade Venezuela to stop these jokers?
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If I understand correctly, I think dax is against regime change when violent Islamic extremists are around and for it when they are not.
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pretty incredible talking point that hizbollah has moved in to Venezuela.
You clearly didn't read the FP article.
This guy seems like he has been workshopping the talking point for a while now.
https://foreignpolicy.com/author/emanuele-ottolenghi/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/author/emanuele-ottolenghi/)
Aren't you bothered by the "Foundation for the Defense of Democracies" and the rest of these neocons closing in around Don?
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https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1095739789578522624
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why would we care about Venzuela and Petrol Politics
we are ENERGY DOMINANT!!!!
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pretty incredible talking point that hizbollah has moved in to Venezuela.
You clearly didn't read the FP article.
sweet christ dax, that article is two years old, literally no one is afraid of Venezualan Hezbullah terrorists
are you suggesting we invade Venezuela to stop these jokers?
When did you turn into such a reactionary numbskull with the rest of the resident LibDerps? Did you miss "Venezuela is not worth it"? Did you miss the part that I was chiding LibDerp7 for being several years behind?
Hezbollah is inextricably tied to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and QUDs, so to day "no one is afraid" is little naive.
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Hezbollah is scary in Lebannon.
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Gosh, so much fuss over nothing, thanks for setting us all straight, cRusty
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1451596
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Gosh, so much fuss over nothing, thanks for setting us all straight, cRusty
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1451596
I mean that basically said the same non-scary stuff the other article did. Venezuelan Hezbollah is no threat to the US at all.
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https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18104698/venezuela-trump-terrorism-state-hezbollah-eln
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Gosh, so much fuss over nothing, thanks for setting us all straight, cRusty
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1451596
I mean that basically said the same non-scary stuff the other article did. Venezuelan Hezbollah is no threat to the US at all.
Weird, then why “redouble” efforts to counter Hezbollah?
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https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18104698/venezuela-trump-terrorism-state-hezbollah-eln
Stunned that Vox took that angle
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Dax will be glad to know that Elliot Abrams is on the case.
so rest assured there will be no arms sent to Venezuela!!!
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Dax will be glad to know that Elliot Abrams is on the case.
so rest assured there will be no arms sent to Venezuela!!!
Did I say there wouldn’t be any? Dumb if so.
Weird to see LibDerp Nation concerned about Elliot Abrams, I suppose a decade or so late is befitting.
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dax you are being extra weird in this thread
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dax you are being extra weird in this thread
Let's see:
You said the largest terrorist organization directly tied to state sponsorship (outside of the militaries of nation states that some or many would call terrorists) in the world was nothing to worry about.
The second article I posted said this: Exposing the full extent of the Maduro government’s relationship with Hezbollah and the entanglement of senior officials with the group will make a strong argument in favor of Guaido, because Hezbollah is involved in serious criminal activity in Venezuela (and elsewhere), including drug trafficking, money laundering and arms smuggling. The US in particular will feel obligated to address more forcefully Hezbollah’s presence in Venezuela. If the US is going around the Middle East and elsewhere to counter the malign activities of Iran and its proxies, and their attempts to circumvent US sanctions, it should do the same in Venezuela, virtually America’s own backyard.
Regardless of how the Venezuelan crisis evolves, the US and its allies should redouble their efforts to counter Hezbollah’s attempts to increase its influence and malign activities in Venezuela.
If there's no concern, then why is this author taking that position?
cRusty said:
I mean that basically said the same non-scary stuff the other article did. Venezuelan Hezbollah is no threat to the US at all.
How could anyone read that Arab News article and have what you said be the take away?
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dax have you browsed that author's other articles?
http://www.arabnews.com/taxonomy/term/2621
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dax have you browsed that author's other articles?
http://www.arabnews.com/taxonomy/term/2621
cRusty, the basic bent on this, as usual from this board is that Pompeo was trying to pull a "yellow cake" about Venezuela and somehow conjuring up a nHezbullah bogey men where none actually existed. Reality says it's the exact opposite.
Now, do you have anything that may discredit what this author says beyond that you don't like the cut of his political jib?
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dax have you browsed that author's other articles?
http://www.arabnews.com/taxonomy/term/2621
cRusty, the basic bent on this, as usual from this board is that Pompeo was trying to pull a "yellow cake" about Venezuela and somehow conjuring up a nHezbullah bogey men where none actually existed. Reality says it's the exact opposite.
Now, do you have anything that may discredit what this author says beyond that you don't like the cut of his political jib?
I really don't know much about his politics, I just doubt that he is unbiased voice on matters possibly involving Iran based on his bio and list of articles. But if you think that article confirms that Hezbullah's Venezuelan faction is a true threat to the US and we should therefore start rough ridin' crap up in Latin America again, be my guest.
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dax have you browsed that author's other articles?
http://www.arabnews.com/taxonomy/term/2621
cRusty, the basic bent on this, as usual from this board is that Pompeo was trying to pull a "yellow cake" about Venezuela and somehow conjuring up a nHezbullah bogey men where none actually existed. Reality says it's the exact opposite.
Now, do you have anything that may discredit what this author says beyond that you don't like the cut of his political jib?
I really don't know much about his politics, I just doubt that he is unbiased voice on matters possibly involving Iran based on his bio and list of articles. But if you think that article confirms that Hezbullah's Venezuelan faction is a true threat to the US and we should therefore start rough ridin' crap up in Latin America again, be my guest.
I said the opposite.
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Dax won't defend the action until it happens. At that point, he'll go all in.
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Dax won't defend the action until it happens. At that point, he'll go all in.
You're really butthurt today. I've been pretty very critical of the defense budget and strikes on Syria.
But you keep being a dummy, dummy.
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I don't think anyone is saying hezbullah being in Venezuela is fabricated or new information, but that it's pretty telling that the SOS is being vocal about it out of the blue. Not surprised that dax has sold out to the man (big bloodthirsty warpig) now that his guy trump needs an election-time war.
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Dax won't defend the action until it happens. At that point, he'll go all in.
I think he won't support the military action, but will blame it on the previous administration and also on the Clinton administration.
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It would be one of the most unpopular wars in U.S. history.
If Trump really wants a war he needs to go to the Libya road map; rope in some allies, make sure the U.S. does all the heavy lifting, get JSOC in there to rally the rebels and rouge Venezuelan army factions . . . provide no explanation to anyone.
If Maddie gets bumped off, send Pompeo down all smiles getting off the plane with a "we came, we saw, he died" T-Shirt. That is historically enough to appease LibDerp Nation into total acquiescence . . . oh wait, wrong party, never mind.
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Sounds appropriate for one of the most unpopular presidents in US history.
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It would be one of the most unpopular wars in U.S. history.
If Trump really wants a war he needs to go to the Libya road map; rope in some allies, make sure the U.S. does all the heavy lifting, get JSOC in there to rally the rebels and rouge Venezuelan army factions . . . provide no explanation to anyone.
If Maddie gets bumped off, send Pompeo down all smiles getting off the plane with a "we came, we saw, he died" T-Shirt. That is historically enough to appease LibDerp Nation into total acquiescence . . . oh wait, wrong party, never mind.
I think if you really wanted a war invading with 3 divisions is a lot more effective then whatever half assed mess Libya was
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I think Iran is a much more likely target, but venzy is the dark horse
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:Lurk:
Sounds appropriate for one of the most unpopular presidents in US history.
Your guy was down in the low 40's an right at 40 at various times during his presidency. He got the LibDerp if you say it enough times you begin to believe it bump.
Then he leaves office and you've got Black People saying that got nothing, we find out the Nobel Chair regrets giving him a peace prize, and most, okay, pretty much all of his foreign policy was absolute hot garbage and the messes will take years to fix . . . of course some of us knew this already.
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I think Iran is a much more likely target, but venzy is the dark horse
The darkest horse of them all
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I think Iran is a much more likely target, but venzy is the dark horse
are we sure venzy wants a full fledged invasion or may be just happy as a failing state
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/6a487c2d9432fe9055e68ff74e935dd8.jpg)
https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/status/1099392143792197632?s=21
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Marco Rubio is a complete psychopath
https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1099726515292508162
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What a shame he's extolling that horrific overthrow and what it has done to that country.
That officially takes him off any future consideration for higher political office in my book.
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Agree Dax.
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https://twitter.com/JoeDunman/status/1100015422819258369
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I hadn't realized we were loading up the troop carriers or sent in the F-15's, keep us posted.
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https://twitter.com/theonion/status/1100149206512226304?s=21
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1103592143774470145
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https://twitter.com/agearan/status/1105320461565677569
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https://www.rferl.org/a/interview-russia-s-ties-to-venezuela-give-it-nuisance-power-over-the-u-s-/29728812.html
The U.S.'s stance in Venezuela should have New Neo-Con Nation fist pumping their collective asses and rotator cuffs off.
Starting in 2016 New Neo-Con Nation, doing a 180 pivot from full complicity with Barrack Obama's policies during the Era of Post Election Flexibility aka The Great Bendover which saw the United States in an almost totally subservient role to Vlad Putin and Russia outside of a few Milquetoast and meaningless sanctions. Has now decided (starting in 2016) that the United States needs to fight these commies on the beaches, on the streets and in the fields.
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luckily for us, when the coup is being promoted by the likes of Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Marco Rubio there is a good chance it never really happens and everyone just moves on.
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Can't leave out this esteemed congressional delegation
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GRvLGnUwRHU/maxresdefault.jpg)
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luckily for us, when the coup is being promoted by the likes of Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Marco Rubio there is a good chance it never really happens and everyone just moves on.
do you consider the congressional claim to be a coup, kat kid?
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luckily for us, when the coup is being promoted by the likes of Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Marco Rubio there is a good chance it never really happens and everyone just moves on.
do you consider the congressional claim to be a coup, kat kid?
genuine question what does "congressional claim" mean?
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the elevation of guaido by the national assembly.
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the elevation of guaido by the national assembly.
I am by no means a Venezuelan constitutional expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. could be wrong!
That said, I am much more interested in the US role here and anyone that brings in Elliot Abrams as point person on a country's human rights respecter can expect to get a violent coup. Marco Rubio is openly fantasizing about just assassinating Maduro, so it is pretty clear about the US intent.
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worth recalling that in '02 we tried a coup in Venezuela and failed. useful context that Venezuelans will remember and most Americans never even knew to forget.
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I am by no means a Venezuelan constitutional expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. could be wrong!
i am also not a venezuelan constitutional expert; however, from what i have seen, if you agree that maduro's actions have not been constitutional, then the elevation of the leader of the national assembly is the prescribed constitutional remedy.
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worth recalling that in '02 we tried a coup in Venezuela and failed. useful context that Venezuelans will remember and most Americans never even knew to forget.
you and dax share a world view that, imo, greatly exaggerates the ability of the united states to direct and influence the internal politics of foreign countries.
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worth recalling that in '02 we tried a coup in Venezuela and failed. useful context that Venezuelans will remember and most Americans never even knew to forget.
you and dax share a world view that, imo, greatly exaggerates the ability of the united states to direct and influence the internal politics of foreign countries.
Well the Bay of Pigs was technically Cuban ex-pats and the US did not ultimately provide air cover.
In '02, Elliot Abrams (same guy!) was running point on organizing and advising the opposition, in recognizing/legitimizing the opposition, and the key players were even invited to the White House to strategize before hand. So, I am not sure just how much material support was offered in either case but it is more than a little disingenuous to allege that the US was not a key element in backing the coup.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela)
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i don't know anything beyond what i just read on wikipedia, but what is outlined there is at odds with your description of "we tried a coup".
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i don't know anything beyond what i just read on wikipedia, but what is outlined there is at odds with your description of "we tried a coup".
Do you think the US "tried a coup" in Chile to overthrow Allende?
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Do you think the US "tried a coup" in Chile to overthrow Allende?
i have no special knowledge of that history, but my phrasing of the conventional history would be that the chilean military staged a coup of the elected government with us encouragement.
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Do you think the US "tried a coup" in Chile to overthrow Allende?
i have no special knowledge of that history, but my phrasing of the conventional history would be that the chilean military staged a coup of the elected government with us encouragement.
that is a fascinating definition. Mossadegh in Iran? Qadaffi in Libya? what about US involvement in removing Sadaam from Iraq?
Would these qualify under your definition?
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do we have to do each one in turn? let's just say that i don't believe the united states possesses some magical power to order the world to its will.
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do we have to do each one in turn? let's just say that i don't believe the united states possesses some magical power to order the world to its will.
well defining our terms would go a long way toward enabling a discussion.
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what term do you find undefined? for that matter, what is our discussion anymore? we started with me asking if you thought the elevation of guaido was an attempt at a coup.
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worth recalling that in '02 we tried a coup in Venezuela and failed. useful context that Venezuelans will remember and most Americans never even knew to forget.
you and dax share a world view that, imo, greatly exaggerates the ability of the united states to direct and influence the internal politics of foreign countries.
horseshoe theory! cc @Kat Kid ; @bubbles ; @8manpick
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what term do you find undefined? for that matter, what is our discussion anymore? we started with me asking if you thought the elevation of guaido was an attempt at a coup.
I have no idea what you define as what it means for the US to be involved in a coup. I am genuinely puzzled by your evasiveness about this. What is the magic line that must be crossed?
As for the current state of things, let me be clear: I think that the United States is currently in the process of attempting a coup in Venezuela. I don't have all of the same amount of information to back up just how explicitly the US is involved as in their failed '02 attempt or the other numerous other examples I provided (I define all of those as coup attempts by the US). Elliot Abrams being in charge and all of the other very clear signals would suggest that the United States is involved enough to satisfy me for now. I am open to being proved wrong later.
Now, is it your idea that unless there are armed US troops in Venezuela right now we are not "attempting a coup?"
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i would say that the united states is not attempting a coup in venezuela because, to me a coup strongly implies an illegal seizure of powe,r and afaik the national assembly's effort to remove maduro is in accordance with the venezuela constitution.
that notwithstanding, while it is possible that the united states might materially aid the effort to remove maduro in the future, i have no evidence that they have already done so, so even if it were a (thus far fruitless) coup, i have no reason to think that it was undertaken at the behest of the us.
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I am not a tanky and I'm not some huge fan of Maduro and a lot of this is opaque to me because I really have not followed it at the granular level. But it really isn't clear to me that the opposition is on the level re: Constitutional backing.
The country’s authoritarian president was inaugurated for a second term amid a collapsing economy and a growing humanitarian crisis. As inflation has soared and food and medicine have become acutely scarce, Venezuelans have been fleeing their nation in droves. As of last November, more than three million people had left, according to the United Nations.
Ahead of Mr. Maduro’s inauguration, a group of countries that includes Canada, Colombia, Brazil, Peru and Argentina issued a statement calling Mr. Maduro’s second term “illegitimate” and his government “dictatorial and oppressive.”
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Mr. Guaidó, 35, has stopped short of calling himself the nation’s rightful leader. But the day after Mr. Maduro’s second swearing-in, Mr. Guaidó invoked an article of Venezuela’s Constitution that transfers power to the president of the National Assembly in the event that the presidency becomes vacant.
Guaidó is insisting on new elections right after he takes power, which would be welcome, but it is unclear to me that he has the power OR even a popular mandate to nullify the last ones (which it seems clear were not open/fair).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/world/americas/guaido-maduro-venezuela.html
(https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/world/americas/guaido-maduro-venezuela.html)
To use another example, people could make a case that Trump is unfit, but we have a clear process for removing him. The 25th amendment would likely (probably rightly) be perceived as a coup attempt.
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i mostly base my take on the eu and the majority of oas states recognizing guaido. it's not something i have the desire to adjudicate myself.
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https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1105314978393923586
seems ominous.
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To use another example, people could make a case that Trump is unfit, but we have a clear process for removing him. The 25th amendment would likely (probably rightly) be perceived as a coup attempt.
Perception does not necessitate reality. That would not be a coup attempt. Words have meanings.
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To use another example, people could make a case that Trump is unfit, but we have a clear process for removing him. The 25th amendment would likely (probably rightly) be perceived as a coup attempt.
Perception does not necessitate reality. That would not be a coup attempt. Words have meanings.
It would depend upon the Supreme Court's interpretation of whether Trump was "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" if the justification provided is weak I don't think it survives a challenge when the president is denied the due process provided by impeachment.
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Sure, but the 25th amendment properly applied would, by definition, not be a coup.
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Sure, but the 25th amendment properly applied would, by definition, not be a coup.
right. which brings us back full circle to Venezuelan constitutional interpretation and politics.
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Dax
what is the policy position here?
are we getting dunked on?
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glad to hear that Russia is not involved in Venezuela
:Carl:
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Yes. We are absolutely getting dunked on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/mb8g5n/trumps-venezuela-war-hawks-are-freaking-out-congress
i welcome a daxnalysis of our current foreign policy position in Venezuela
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https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/mb8g5n/trumps-venezuela-war-hawks-are-freaking-out-congress
i welcome a daxnalysis of our current foreign policy position in Venezuela
Really a poor job by Trump . . . using the previous administration as their guide, they should be giving absolutely no reasons for trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela to anyone. Send in JSOC, get the F-15's rolling, the drones over head, pump the opposition with lots of weapons and get JSOC in their to show them how to use them, light up the targets for the F-15's and the drones tracking the guy they want out when he flee's.
Then Pompeo hits the ground, flashes a big smile and says something like, "we came, we saw, he died".
Side note: Take all confiscated Venezuelan military arms and ship them to the opposition in whatever country we want to overthrow next and then turn right around and walk away from Venezuela leaving only a skeleton force to ensure our favorite thugs stay or get all the power . . .
oh, and make sure an ambassador isn't killed surrounded by a bunch of CIA guys.
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so you approve?
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smart cookie convinces Trump that tough cookie should not be messed with
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/09/venezuela-maduro-guaido-crackdown-edgar-zambrano
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guise...
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So what in the world is going on here?
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No idea how legit this site is, but it doesn't appear to be parody based on 4 minutes of sleuthing. Anyway, here's an interesting read that seems well sourced: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/05/the-invasion-of-venezuela-brought-to-you-by-silvercorp-usa/
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No idea how legit this site is, but it doesn't appear to be parody based on 4 minutes of sleuthing. Anyway, here's an interesting read that seems well sourced: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/05/the-invasion-of-venezuela-brought-to-you-by-silvercorp-usa/
I just saw this same report referenced by a reputable source. Looking forward to reading it!
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HOLY crap that is very mumped up and very MAGA and also funny because it is so mumped up.
When he was pressed by Poleo to explain why launching an amphibious operation across open waters instead of attempting to infiltrate via the border with Colombia, Goudreau replied:
Are you familiar with Alexander the Great? The Battle of Gaugamela. Completely outnumbered. He struck to the heart of the enemy, and he won.
(https://017qndpynh-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/TwoGreenBerts.jpg)
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There are a million other examples, but this is such an absurd example of the absolute power exercised upon countries around the world that the US and UK happen to not like.
What a complete farce.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela)
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There are a million other examples, but this is such an absurd example of the absolute power exercised upon countries around the world that the US and UK happen to not like.
What a complete farce.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela)
I mean, that’s his fault but go off
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ProgNazi's, is it time to "We came we saw he died" this guy?
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This aggression will NOT stand, man.
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There are a million other examples, but this is such an absurd example of the absolute power exercised upon countries around the world that the US and UK happen to not like.
What a complete farce.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/maduro-refused-control-of-1bn-in-uk-vaults-high-court-juan-guaido-venezuela)
I mean, that’s his fault but go off
ok this is a very funny end.
https://en.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/news/politics/English-court-orders-Guaido-to-pay-529/ (https://en.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/news/politics/English-court-orders-Guaido-to-pay-529/)
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Great bump and reminder what putty brained drama queens BidenVoter was and is.
LOL’able x 1000
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remember Juan Guaido? lol
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Great bump and reminder what putty brained drama queens BidenVoter was and is.
LOL’able x 1000
you are choosing to highlight Venezuela as a Trump foreign policy success?
:love: :love: :love:
running around crowing about American meddling and regime change and then talk about Trumps actions in Venezuela
perfect
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Great bump and reminder what putty brained drama queens BidenVoter was and is.
LOL’able x 1000
you are choosing to highlight Venezuela as a Trump foreign policy success?
:love: :love: :love:
running around crowing about American meddling and regime change and then talk about Trumps actions in Venezuela
perfect
Yes, it was a real shock and awe effort in Venezuela, with funding equal to a rounding error in the Federal budget. No decapitation strikes, no embarrassing withdrawals 20 years later . . .
Blueanon should have applauded those efforts, but was too busy believing all the Russia-Russia-Russia lunacy
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Lmao Juan Guaido is back! Getting Bolsonaro that key last minute endorsement along with Trump and Netanyahu!
Sys can you admit that this guy is a rough ridin' freak and the coup was a bad idea?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221002/bd23d7fd3449ae8c37490485f6970db6.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221002/188e9c68f97537e3ac1cdfb65ecbabec.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221002/b5467f4883162fbf1f1656d2cbffd82a.jpg)