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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Pete on December 08, 2018, 09:29:29 AM
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Apparently coached at Tech along the way, I had no idea (I had to google basically everything about him, as I do every coaching candidate).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Brown
I then googled "Is Neal Brown a good coach" and I found this article:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/29/16382818/neal-brown-troy-football-head-coach-lsu
Coaches knew Neal Brown would be one of them soon, because none of the other Kentucky WRs would stand next to their position coach, this weird guy named Mike Leach, and keep up in conversation.
I'm still waiting to hear from j rake on the numbers, but this guy seems to have the tangible intangibles to tangle? No?
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I bet we'd only have this guy for 3 - 4 years, because he'd recruit a badass QB and flirt with a Big 12 title. Then, we'd be forced to take our stable of great offensive recruits and find a new Neal Brown. Seems like a good plan to me :dunno:
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Apparently coached at Tech along the way, I had no idea (I had to google basically everything about him, as I do every coaching candidate).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Brown
I then googled "Is Neal Brown a good coach" and I found this article:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/29/16382818/neal-brown-troy-football-head-coach-lsu
Coaches knew Neal Brown would be one of them soon, because none of the other Kentucky WRs would stand next to their position coach, this weird guy named Mike Leach, and keep up in conversation.
I'm still waiting to hear from j rake on the numbers, but this guy seems to have the tangible intangibles to tangle? No?
downside is his recruiting class is ranked WAY below ours and ours is one of the worst in the nation
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brown is a good coach. the type that'll beat yours with his and his with yours. i'd put him on bill clark's level as far as unproven coaches who have sold me on their coaching ability. but similar to clark, i don't know if he'd recruit at the necessary level he'd have to to be successful at k-state.
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
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We’ve gone from Mike Leach to guy who Pete googled and read that he once kept up in a conversation with Mike Leach.
I didn’t want Leach but liked the idea of aiming high at a pool of existing/proven/successful power 5 head coaches and spending the money to poach one.
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
just repeating myself, but norvell took over an already-built program from fuente after fuente moved on to va tech. he is the maintainer, not the architect. fuente, the architect, just turned in a wildly disappointing third year at Va Tech - where they massively fell short of expectations and lost to frickin ODU as a 28-pt favorite.
norvell is largely unproven. his memphis program went the wrong way this year. nobody could reasonably project them to make major gains next year. but we don't know. what we do know is that his resume is lacking and that the man he worked for has underachieved at the big job he took at an ACC school.
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
just repeating myself, but norvell took over an already-built program from fuente after fuente moved on to va tech. he is the maintainer, not the architect. fuente, the architect, just turned in a wildly disappointing third year at Va Tech - where they massively fell short of expectations and lost to frickin ODU as a 28-pt favorite.
norvell is largely unproven. his memphis program went the wrong way this year. nobody could reasonably project them to make major gains next year. but we don't know. what we do know is that his resume is lacking and that the man he worked for has underachieved at the big job he took at an ACC school.
Ahhh I was thinking norvell and Fuente were the same person
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
I do not like Graham, but I like Norvell.
(https://i.ibb.co/8NjSfHF/Norvell-and-Brown-Offenses.png)
I get that he took over a good program from Fuentes and has sustained it.
Also, his recruiting rankings for the last 3 years: 64/56, 81/81, 53/56.
I will say, his defense was awful last year and the reason they didn't match the previous season. He would need to address the DC for sure.
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I agree that recruiting is an issue but I noticed last year Troy signed around 6 players with at least one P5 offer (depending on which sight you use Ruvals, 247 or ESPN)... we signed around 12 with at least one other P5 offer and several were battles with KU, Illinois and / or Rutgers. Having worked at Kentucky and Tech Inam sure he knows what type of athlete it takes to win and how to turn over the rocks that others are passing on.
At this point I think the probability of getting Venables or a current P5 coach are about 0%. This guy seems to have a decent resume and with a handful of good assistants could be solid.
If Taylor thinks Kleinman is so great, and I see he is only making $300,000 per year, I am sure we could double his salary make him Co-DC and see what happens. I think the reality for Kleinman is that after the Bohl experience few schools with a quality program are going to jump at Kleiman unless he gains P5 experience. Joe Moorhead at Mississippi State realized this and went from FCS head coach to OC at Penn State which eventually landed him a P5 coaching job.
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Good luck with your new coach!!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181208/17f7d38f4dbc860b94c3e7333f5ad396.jpg)
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
I do not like Graham, but I like Norvell.
(https://i.ibb.co/8NjSfHF/Norvell-and-Brown-Offenses.png)
I get that he took over a good program from Fuentes and has sustained it.
Also, his recruiting rankings for the last 3 years: 64/56, 81/81, 53/56.
I will say, his defense was awful last year and the reason they didn't match the previous season. He would need to address the DC for sure.
Good post
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I like norvell better than brown. Change my mind
norvell is unqualified. shouldn't even be getting consideration honestly.
Norvell followed Todd Graham around as an assistant, and people seem to really hate Todd Graham. Hasn't done anything especially impressive. He's the most boring yet expensive hire we could make if we're pulling from the pool of lower level HC dorks
I do not like Graham, but I like Norvell.
(https://i.ibb.co/8NjSfHF/Norvell-and-Brown-Offenses.png)
I get that he took over a good program from Fuentes and has sustained it.
Also, his recruiting rankings for the last 3 years: 64/56, 81/81, 53/56.
I will say, his defense was awful last year and the reason they didn't match the previous season. He would need to address the DC for sure.
How did those ASU offenses rank in the Pac12? Also how do the recruiting rankings compare?
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How did those ASU offenses rank in the Pac12? Also how do the recruiting rankings compare?
7th, 2nd, 5th, and 6th respectively.
Brown's classes in recruiting: 93, 100+, 97, 100+
Norvell's classes: 4th best non P5, 15th best non P5, and currently 3rd best non P5.
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How did those ASU offenses rank in the Pac12? Also how do the recruiting rankings compare?
7th, 2nd, 5th, and 6th respectively.
Brown's classes in recruiting: 93, 100+, 97, 100+
Norvell's classes: 4th best non P5, 15th best non P5, and currently 3rd best non P5.
Well the recruiting is encouraging at least. Still not super excited
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How did those ASU offenses rank in the Pac12? Also how do the recruiting rankings compare?
7th, 2nd, 5th, and 6th respectively.
Brown's classes in recruiting: 93, 100+, 97, 100+
Norvell's classes: 4th best non P5, 15th best non P5, and currently 3rd best non P5.
Well the recruiting is encouraging at least. Still not super excited
Good info... Norvell plus a defensive staff that includes Seiler, Kleinman and Norwood could be very interesting (though unlikely).
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i've seen dozens of littrells and i've seen dozens of norvells and i've seen dozens of other coaches whose name ends with e-l-l.
just say no!
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i've seen dozens of littrells and i've seen dozens of norvells and i've seen dozens of other coaches whose name ends with e-l-l.
just say no!
:lol:
Double Ls = no.
Coached at Bowling Green = yes.
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i've seen dozens of littrells and i've seen dozens of norvells and i've seen dozens of other coaches whose name ends with e-l-l.
just say no!
:lol:
Double Ls = no.
Coached at Bowling Green = yes.
got me there. :frown:
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I've had enough of Pete's ideas. Wake me when we have a coach. Unless we hire the north dakota guy, just smother me in my sleep.
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I actually do like the idea of doubling NDSU guy’s salary and making him a DC to see what he’s got. Only issue is what HC candidate would be on board with that? Sean?
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
This is a great post, fsd
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
This is a great post, fsd
It was Dirk Koetter that built it, then Hawkins, then Peterson...
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I actually do like the idea of doubling NDSU guy’s salary and making him a DC to see what he’s got. Only issue is what HC candidate would be on board with that? Sean?
It would take some humility, but if Norvell is honest he needs a legit DC
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
This is a great post, fsd
It was Dirk Koetter that built it, then Hawkins, then Peterson...
there's a massive difference between sustaining something for three years, and doing it for eight and taking something to greater heights, which is what petersen did at boise.
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So just let ndsu guy rock out for 4 more years and if he’s still kicking ass hire him. We won’t have any competition.
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
This is a great post, fsd
It was Dirk Koetter that built it, then Hawkins, then Peterson...
there's a massive difference between sustaining something for three years, and doing it for eight and taking something to greater heights, which is what petersen did at boise.
If FSD is referring to Klieman you can make a very strong argument that he's somehow elevated NDSU to a greater place since Bohl left.
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So just let ndsu guy rock out for 4 more years and if he’s still kicking ass hire him. We won’t have any competition.
Why?
k-state needed to make this move 5 years ago. youd be a borderline top 10 team had you carbon copied whatever ndsu does right away.
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So just let ndsu guy rock out for 4 more years and if he’s still kicking ass hire him. We won’t have any competition.
Why?
k-state needed to make this move 5 years ago. youd be a borderline top 10 team had you carbon copied whatever ndsu does right away.
Nah
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If Hawkins is the builder and Peterson the sustainer, maybe focusing on the sustainer isn't a bad plan.
This is a great post, fsd
It was Dirk Koetter that built it, then Hawkins, then Peterson...
there's a massive difference between sustaining something for three years, and doing it for eight and taking something to greater heights, which is what petersen did at boise.
If FSD is referring to Klieman you can make a very strong argument that he's somehow elevated NDSU to a greater place since Bohl left.
yep, klieman has undoubtedly improved NDSU since bohl left. and one thing that's worth pointing out is that bohl never got NDSU to the top of the mountain until klieman arrived.
klieman showed up at NDSU in 2011. the three years before his arrival, bohl's NDSU teams went 6-5, 3-8, 9-5 and were rated #150, #171 and #94. that was in bohl's sixth, seventh and eighth seasons. then klieman shows up, and the program takes off like a rocket ship. they went 14-1, 14-1 and 15-0 and played at a top-25 level. they've been a top-25 rated team ever since.
i'm of the opinion that dan hawkins is a decent coach (he was fine at a lower level before arriving at boise, and he's improved UC Davis immediately since taking over at the FCS level), but it's fair to wonder if he was mostly responsible for boise's success during their five-year run. boise was best known for its offense, and its offensive coordinator his entire tenure was ... chris petersen.
boise promoted petersen immediately after hawkins took over, a good sign they knew just how good he was, and he took boise to greater heights just as klieman has done since bohl left.
i'm gonna stop there because i don't want to risk selling anybody on this stooge. :horrorsurprise: