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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: bshea85 on November 29, 2018, 01:19:21 PM
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What exactly happened after 2003 that caused Snyder to retire in the first place? Like I know the team sucked with two losing records in 2004 and 2005, but how can you go from a top team like that to a loser so quickly? Was it the same thing that happened after 2012 just a mass exodus of talent with no depth?
My questions are specifically targeted at people ITK.
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Ell left.
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Bret Bielema left for Wisconsin.
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Ell left.
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I would argue it started in 1999 when Stoops, Mangino, and Venables left
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I would argue it started in 1999 when Stoops, Mangino, and Venables left
because recruiting got worse if you couldn't tell
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Taco Bell introduced the Mountain Dew BAJA BLAST!
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I would argue it started in 1999 when Stoops, Mangino, and Venables left
because recruiting got worse if you couldn't tell
on a similar note, if you want to know what happened in 2011/2012, he walked into an elite QB leftover from Prince, some elite local transfers, and an NFL WR legacy recruit.
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it's always about the players
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it's always about the players
So where is Bill on the recruiting trail today?
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it's always about the players
So where is Bill on the recruiting trail today?
I'm told he's weighing his options
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Someone convinced Bill that after 98 we could stop mining JuCo and start landing 4&5 star studs. So they started to go that direction. The blue blood helmet teams had already started to recruit the JuCos so there was less there anyway and Bill embraced the new recruiting philosophy.
Unfortunately, by the time we were supposed to have a big class in 2000, we whiffed on several and had to scramble. We were still winning 11 games a year so they continued down the same path. Whiffed again and an ensuing scramble began. The final year, 2003, Bill was all in on some real studs...didn't land one. the cupboard was bare.
So Bill tried to fill with JuCos in 2004 but was behind the ball and got meh. 2005 we didn't have a full team. Bill saw that we weren't win to magically get guys so he hung it up with the hopes that new blood would help...and Prince's first class was Freeman and 2 million JuCo guys.
When Bill came back resolved not to chase 4&5 stars. Find the gems and coach 'em up. Well, he did great at coaching up Prince's recruits...but he's never brought in the talent that Prince did, and it shows on the field.
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I remember an annual tradition of excitement/disappointment over one stud QB recruit per year that we were in on then ultimately never landed.
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I remember an annual tradition of excitement/disappointment over one stud QB recruit per year that we were in on then ultimately never landed.
Cam Newton..... :love:
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YES exactly, I heard this from statements Snyder made after he came back. Didn't he explain this in a book about him?
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YES exactly, I heard this from statements Snyder made after he came back. Didn't he explain this in a book about him?
Not sure, but that wouldn’t surprise me. He told me why he hung it up at a Chamber dinner in South Central KS in 2007(?), and I remember him mentioning it when he came back.
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The 01/02/03 recruiting classes were gigantic duds.
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Ell left.
Karna for what Bill did to Ell.
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I like the part where he blamed someone else for convincing him to recruit elite recruits. #leadership
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Massive whiffs on Daniel DAvis, Marvin Simmons, Nick Patton, The Olineman that Stole the Baseballs,
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Can you imagine how badly Bill would have imploded at a school like Alabama or USC? Coaches like Saban never get enough credit for managing elite recruits.
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Can you imagine how badly Bill would have imploded at a school like Alabama or USC? Coaches like Saban never get enough credit for managing elite recruits.
briles didn't either
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Well, he did great at coaching up Prince's recruits...but he's never brought in the talent that Prince did, and it shows on the field.
I’m not sure you even believe this crap
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Can you imagine how badly Bill would have imploded at a school like Alabama or USC? Coaches like Saban never get enough credit for managing elite recruits.
briles didn't either
Snyder compared unfavorably to Prince and Briles in the same thread. :flush:
Lots of despicable people on this board.
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YES exactly, I heard this from statements Snyder made after he came back. Didn't he explain this in a book about him?
Not sure, but that wouldn’t surprise me. He told me why he hung it up at a Chamber dinner in South Central KS in 2007(?), and I remember him mentioning it when he came back.
I believe it was mentioned on the "They Said It Couldn't Be Done" book. I don't have it here on my hand, but I'm certain it was mentioned there.
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well we rough ridin' sucked for starters. then our coach bailed because he couldn't deal with it.
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Two major factors - Bill played musical chairs at QB in both 2004 and 2005 and they couldn't seal the deal in close games (lost 4 games by 10 points or less in 2004 and lost three Big 12 games by a combined 7 points in 2005 - two of those games were won on FGs in the final minute).
If you flip 1-2 games to Ws in those years, Snyder probably wouldn't have retired.
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Two major factors - Bill played musical chairs at QB in both 2004 and 2005 and they couldn't seal the deal in close games (lost 4 games by 10 points or less in 2004 and lost three Big 12 games by a combined 7 points in 2005 - two of those games were won on FGs in the final minute).
If you flip 1-2 games to Ws in those years, Snyder probably wouldn't have retired.
Like losing a 1, 3, 4, and 5 point game in same year.
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lmao
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Is Steffy Sean?
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bill was so lucky to have collin and arthur fall into his lap. how can he look back at his career and think that talent wasn't important?
bill can coach and develop players better than most, and if he had a team where the average recruit was a rivals 5.6 3 star, i think we'd be at least top 25 every year. actually 2018 was alright, 2015 was meh, 2016 and 2017 were disasters though. too bad he was too stubborn.
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Fall into his lap? ICYMI, Arthur was an afterthought for most programs by the time we picked him up (Bryce was the Big headline grabber-LOL), and Klein was not talented enough to make an NFL roster.
It’s time for Bill to go, but if you think he just got lucky in 2011/2012 you’re insane.
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Fall into his lap? ICYMI, Arthur was an afterthought for most programs by the time we picked him up (Bryce was the Big headline grabber-LOL), and Klein was not talented enough to make an NFL roster.
It’s time for Bill to go, but if you think he just got lucky in 2011/2012 you’re insane.
There's like 30 guys on that roster that would have been the best player we had on the field this year
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The funniest part of all was the "welp, we just couldn't land all those 4 and 5 star guys so we're just gonna flip this thing to try hards, wide spot in the roaders, and underrecruited (for a reason) guys and just coach them up".
It also didn't help that Snyder had/has so many restrictions on recruiting that absolutely kill us, and by all accounts from ITK people at the first hint of any real competition for some guys K-State completely backs off . . . plus Bill doesn't get out on the road.
The pinnacle of college football on the other hand are relentless recruiters that are not only in house but host recruits at their personal homes when those recruits make campus visits. For Nick Saban it's a luxury bus ride out to Nick's palatial euro style mansion on Lake Tuscaloosa where they're ushered inside by private security after checking out Nick's lineup of AMG Benz's in the courtyard. Inside they're funneled into a recruit hosting room full of big screens, pool tables etc. etc. Nick then takes various ones for rides on a golf cart on the property to talk and many commit right there. Rinse-Repeat . . . or Nick is in home dancing with mom and the rest of the family, whatever it takes. Peak recruiting.
Whereas at K-State, sometimes recruits don't even meet with Bill on campus visits.
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The funniest part of all was the "welp, we just couldn't land all those 4 and 5 star guys so we're just gonna flip this thing to try hards, wide spot in the roaders, and underrecruited (for a reason) guys and just coach them up".
It also didn't help that Snyder had/has so many restrictions on recruiting that absolutely kill us, and by all accounts from ITK people at the first hint of any real competition for some guys K-State completely backs off . . . plus Bill doesn't get out on the road.
The pinnacle of college football on the other hand are relentless recruiters that are not only in house but host recruits at their personal homes when those recruits make campus visits. For Nick Saban it's a luxury bus ride out to Nick's palatial euro style mansion on Lake Tuscaloosa where they're ushered inside by private security after checking out Nick's lineup of AMG Benz's in the courtyard. Inside they're funneled into a recruit hosting room full of big screens, pool tables etc. etc. Nick then takes various ones for rides on a golf cart on the property to talk and many commit right there. Rinse-Repeat . . . or Nick is in home dancing with mom and the rest of the family, whatever it takes. Peak recruiting.
Whereas at K-State, sometimes recruits don't even meet with Bill on campus visits.
His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
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Fall into his lap? ICYMI, Arthur was an afterthought for most programs by the time we picked him up (Bryce was the Big headline grabber-LOL), and Klein was not talented enough to make an NFL roster.
It’s time for Bill to go, but if you think he just got lucky in 2011/2012 you’re insane.
yeah I think when a former #1 recruit in your backyard is on a crowded depth chart, returns home and becomes B12DPOY that qualifies as falling into his lap. Also don't forget about Chris Harper who would have been our best receiver this year.
And GMAFB if you think Klein not making an NFL roster means he wasn't talented. Bill mumped up by not playing him sooner.
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playing klein sooner would have just expedited his early onset dementia
klein took as many snaps for k-state as his body could have
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If Snyder did the best recruiting he was capable of, could he have landed both Browns from the beginning? In other words, did his alleged slacking at recruiting truly cost us with them?
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
eff off. Goal 12 - No Self-Limitations. If you’re saying he needs to go because he put limitations on himself and the program’s recruiting, then you can’t say he followed his own plan for success.
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playing klein sooner would have just expedited his early onset dementia
klein took as many snaps for k-state as his body could have
yes this is probably true
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
eff off. Goal 12 - No Self-Limitations. If you’re saying he needs to go because he put limitations on himself and the program’s recruiting, then you can’t say he followed his own plan for success.
It's not a self-limitation, man, it's a philosophy. If you're on the road you're not sifting through film, you aren't in meetings, you're not in practice, you're not meeting with your position players. I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy but it physically isn't possible to be in Vanier and in Plano at the same time.
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
eff off. Goal 12 - No Self-Limitations. If you’re saying he needs to go because he put limitations on himself and the program’s recruiting, then you can’t say he followed his own plan for success.
It's not a self-limitation, man, it's a philosophy. If you're on the road you're not sifting through film, you aren't in meetings, you're not in practice, you're not meeting with your position players. I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy but it physically isn't possible to be in Vanier and in Plano at the same time.
With today’s technology you can be those things from anywhere. Film, watch practice, meetings...I’m not saying Snyder needs to be the one on the road every day, but I travel a eff ton. 15 years ago that meant a lot of down time, now I can get a ton done.
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
eff off. Goal 12 - No Self-Limitations. If you’re saying he needs to go because he put limitations on himself and the program’s recruiting, then you can’t say he followed his own plan for success.
It's not a self-limitation, man, it's a philosophy. If you're on the road you're not sifting through film, you aren't in meetings, you're not in practice, you're not meeting with your position players. I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy but it physically isn't possible to be in Vanier and in Plano at the same time.
With today’s technology you can be those things from anywhere. Film, watch practice, meetings...I’m not saying Snyder needs to be the one on the road every day, but I travel a eff ton. 15 years ago that meant a lot of down time, now I can get a ton done.
I'm not saying otherwise, and you can bet your ass that on the rare occurrences when a coach is allowed on the road during the season they are watching film.
We don't need to legislate game film technology, my issue is with your framing of Snyder's recruiting philosophy.
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His disdain for recruiting is what kept him from achieving his true potential, sad really. He was good enough to win a natty but he self limited.
Goal 17: Do as these say, not as I do.
I'm in no way advocating for Bill to stay but this is some kso level hyperbole, total bullshit.
His perceived disdain for recruiting didn't have anything to do with laziness or anything attributable to a negative personality trait. He hit the road when the season was over because he believed the program was better suited to develop the players in the program and recruiting in season came at the expense of that development.
It's really the biggest reason he has to go. The early signing period should have marked a hard shift in this philosophy but there are reports of him still placing heavy restrictions on what his coaches can do, in season.
eff off. Goal 12 - No Self-Limitations. If you’re saying he needs to go because he put limitations on himself and the program’s recruiting, then you can’t say he followed his own plan for success.
It's not a self-limitation, man, it's a philosophy. If you're on the road you're not sifting through film, you aren't in meetings, you're not in practice, you're not meeting with your position players. I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy but it physically isn't possible to be in Vanier and in Plano at the same time.
With today’s technology you can be those things from anywhere. Film, watch practice, meetings...I’m not saying Snyder needs to be the one on the road every day, but I travel a eff ton. 15 years ago that meant a lot of down time, now I can get a ton done.
I'm not saying otherwise, and you can bet your ass that on the rare occurrences when a coach is allowed on the road during the season they are watching film.
We don't need to legislate game film technology, my issue is with your framing of Snyder's recruiting philosophy.
I personally don't have much of a problem with his framing of it. my take is that as Snyder got older he became less able to deal with the uncertainty and unknown. that coupled with his already very strong introverted tendancies, made him unwilling to get out there and talk and recruit and take a chance on a 4 star that might take a lot of work and talking and understanding when a two star that would take a scholarship, show up to campus and hopefully just stfu was available. I don't even think this should be a controversial take. he poured himself into film and studying and long hours and talking into his cassette tape recorder because that's what he could do and what he was comfortable with.
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Daris, I think we're essentially in the same place. I'm saying that Snyder didn't view in season recruiting as worth the valuable time, low ROI. I think you're saying that Snyder didn't view it worth his or his assistants time. Either way it's not like he and his assistants were spending time not recruiting on the golf course or in junction city strip clubs, they were working.
Framing this as hypocrisy is incorrect, it wasn't that. They weren't asking the players to work hard while the coaches coasted. It was a flawed and outdated philosophy.
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Daris, I think we're essentially in the same place. I'm saying that Snyder didn't view in season recruiting as worth the valuable time, low ROI. I think you're saying that Snyder didn't view it worth his or his assistants time. Either way it's not like he and his assistants were spending time not recruiting on the golf course or in junction city strip clubs, they were working.
Framing this as hypocrisy is incorrect, it wasn't that. They weren't asking the players to work hard while the coaches coasted. It was a flawed and outdated philosophy.
yeah I agree with 90-95% of what you wrote. I've heard some stories though. instead of hanging out at jc strip clubs or the back of rockabilly or golfing or whatever, coaches were made to basically just sit in offices and stare at walls all day. that's not productive at all. I think Snyder enjoys the solitude, hates talking to people he doesn't know and just forced everybody else to pretty much do the same. that's just my take.
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Nick Saban personally coaches the Alabama DB's.
When you have lessor talent, they have to be coached up that much more, when you don't recruit, you have, wait for it, lessor talent all the time.
I mean, last year during the rain delays they were literally doing walk-thrus in the weightroom. That's how over-the-top Snyder is in trying to micro-manage every little thing. Other coaches have quite clearly adapted to getting what needs to be done during the allotted time the NCAA rules have for practice. LHC Bill Snyder has not . . . just another reason why K-State needs a total systemic overhaul.
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Explain to me why doing walk throughs during a rain delay is bad
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Explain to me why doing walk throughs during a rain delay is bad
IMO, if you haven't implemented and properly conveyed what needs to be done by game day, it's too late. IMO, you're likely only creating confusion.
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Paralysis by Analysis
:billdance: