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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on August 16, 2018, 06:50:55 PM
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Paul Manafort. He’s on trial for tax evasion and related charges from over a decade ago? Somehow this is part of the special counsel investigation but it’s tough to understand how. Case has gone to jury. And the jury is now asking for definition of “reasonable doubt.” :facepalm:
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Witch Hunt
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The judge. :tears
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And the jury is now asking for definition of “reasonable doubt.” :facepalm:
Exhibit A for anyone asking why so few cases go to trial.
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I've been trying to read about the case against him and it doesn't make any sense. He's being charged with bank fraud for allegedly lying on loan applications about his personal assets, but it seems like he's paid all of his loans so nobody has any damages. It doesn't make any sense.
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If they don't get a substantive conviction here, does the whole "probe" unravel??
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enraged
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This has nothing to do with the probe, best I can tell, so no. It’s just extremely weird Mueller’s team is even handling this.
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lol
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The issue came up in the case, and it was ruled that it was within the scope of the probe. For real. I hadn't been following it, but the more I read, the more bizarre it becomes.
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The defense didn't even put on witnesses. They just roasted the Fed's star witness on cross. The Feds put on 11 days of forensic evidence to a jury that needs clarification on the burden of proof. :lol:
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What you just described happens all the time in criminal trials.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Hopefully the president reads the board and obtains different counsel
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Why? The prosecutor is putting on a guy who openly admits stealing from the defendant as its star witness.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
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His current attorney was mired for decades in criminal law
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The judge. :tears
He's already the libtard scapegoat for this ridiculous case
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/the-extraordinary-bias-of-the-judge-in-the-manafort-trial/2018/08/16/aca48040-a16c-11e8-83d2-70203b8d7b44_story.html
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
Criminal law is for solos and people who finish in the bottom third of their class, and you rough ridin' know it. Dont be a dolt.
They're either psuedo cops or left wing conspiracy theory whackadoos that hate cops.
The "finest firms" (lol). Much like waste management has one trash man ceo and 50,000 trash men.
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enraged
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It’s incredible how much they are
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Or patent law FML
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
Criminal law is for solos and people who finish in the bottom third of their class, and you rough ridin' know it. Dont be a dolt.
They're either psuedo cops or left wing conspiracy theory whackadoos that hate cops.
The "finest firms" (lol). Much like waste management has one trash man ceo and 50,000 trash men.
White-collar criminal defense is big business. You'd have a tough time finding a single prestigious biglaw firm without a practice group (other than, like, boutique IP firms). So, you're wrong.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
Criminal law is for solos and people who finish in the bottom third of their class, and you rough ridin' know it. Dont be a dolt.
They're either psuedo cops or left wing conspiracy theory whackadoos that hate cops.
The "finest firms" (lol). Much like waste management has one trash man ceo and 50,000 trash men.
White-collar criminal defense is big business. You'd have a tough time finding a single prestigious biglaw firm without a practice group (other than, like, boutique IP firms). So, you're wrong.
You might as well be speaking French to him
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This seems like par for the course in your run of the mill decade old tax evasion trial
https://twitter.com/foxnews/status/1030522432183062528?s=21
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
Criminal law is for solos and people who finish in the bottom third of their class, and you rough ridin' know it. Dont be a dolt.
They're either psuedo cops or left wing conspiracy theory whackadoos that hate cops.
The "finest firms" (lol). Much like waste management has one trash man ceo and 50,000 trash men.
White-collar criminal defense is big business. You'd have a tough time finding a single prestigious biglaw firm without a practice group (other than, like, boutique IP firms). So, you're wrong.
You've abandoned arguing my point, and instead moved on to a contrived disagreement, so I win per usual.
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Still no verdict :ROFL: and now this :facepalm:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/17/judge-in-manafort-trial-says-hes-been-threatened-over-case.amp.html
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Some of the finest firms in the country specialize in white-collar criminal defense. In fact, every elite law firm has such a practice, you dolt.
Criminal law is for solos and people who finish in the bottom third of their class, and you rough ridin' know it. Dont be a dolt.
They're either psuedo cops or left wing conspiracy theory whackadoos that hate cops.
The "finest firms" (lol). Much like waste management has one trash man ceo and 50,000 trash men.
White-collar criminal defense is big business. You'd have a tough time finding a single prestigious biglaw firm without a practice group (other than, like, boutique IP firms). So, you're wrong.
You've abandoned arguing my point, and instead moved on to a contrived disagreement, so I win per usual.
What was your point, then? That you have no idea what you're talking about? Manafort's lead attorneys are former federal prosecutors for the DOJ who prosecuted cases exactly like this one before they moved to the private sector to cash in on their expertise. If your point was that many criminal defense attorneys who handle petty crap like DUI's and traffic tickets weren't good enough to do anything else, then ok. But what does that have to do with anything?
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Based on the amount of time you spend scribing about conlaw, I'd say you are in a pretty precarious position to have any substantive discussion about the actual practice of law.
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Based on the amount of time you spend scribing about conlaw, I'd say you are in a pretty precarious position to have any substantive discussion about the actual practice of law.
Ad hominem. Nice! You do you, dax.
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Like, graduate law school and get a real job, and then see what you think about the finest and most prestigious firms.
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Based on the amount of time you spend scribing about conlaw, I'd say you are in a pretty precarious position to have any substantive discussion about the actual practice of law.
Ad hominem. Nice! You do you, dax.
Well, you ad hominemed first, pal.
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Meh, anyone reading this thread can plainly see exactly what went down. No need to let myself get dragged down to your weird and wacky world.
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You're confused. Let it go.
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You guys are really angry for someone who barely touched the Trump orbit (according to revisionist history buffs)
Who cares you guys?
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You're confused. Let it go.
No problem, squirt!
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Lol
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You guys are really angry for someone who barely touched the Trump orbit (according to revisionist history buffs)
Who cares you guys?
I only care because the media really seems to care, based on the coverage. Literally nobody would give two shits about this trial - if not for Manafort’s brief connection to the Trump campaign and Mueller’s involvement.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Or patent law FML
Patent law is for dorkstore engineers and sweaty bilogists who are incapable of interacting in society.
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You guys are really angry for someone who barely touched the Trump orbit (according to revisionist history buffs)
Who cares you guys?
I only care because the media really seems to care, based on the coverage. Literally nobody would give two shits about this trial - if not for Manafort’s brief connection to the Trump campaign and Mueller’s involvement.
You guys get too angry at the media. Why do you care? It's cable news. It's worthless.
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You guys are really angry for someone who barely touched the Trump orbit (according to revisionist history buffs)
Who cares you guys?
I only care because the media really seems to care, based on the coverage. Literally nobody would give two shits about this trial - if not for Manafort’s brief connection to the Trump campaign and Mueller’s involvement.
Bear in mind, this is the best slam dunk case Mueller has been able to hatch out of this probe, and the jury will have sat on it for not less than two entire days and a weekend beginning Monday.
The credibility of the probe rests on a conviction. The media and Mueller have a lot to lose here.
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It's not that unusual for the jury to take a few days on a case this complex. And I expect he will be convicted on something, though probably not everything. But the media is breathlessly waiting to report this as "Mueller's First Conviction In Russia Probe"
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I don’t think it would be his first conviction. Like maybe the 10th?
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He’s had other convictions? I thought just s couple plea deals. I guess those are technically convictions but you get my point. This is the first one that he actually took to trial.
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I’m not some low life criminal law attorney, but I don’t know what else you’d call an entered guilty plea other than a conviction.
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He’s had other convictions? I thought just s couple plea deals. I guess those are technically convictions but you get my point. This is the first one that he actually took to trial.
Jurors just want to go home.
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Only shitty attorneys get stuck doing criminal law, bub.
Or patent law FML
Patent law is for dorkstore engineers and sweaty bilogists who are incapable of interacting in society.
Stupid bilogy degree
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On the one hand this person is absolutely meaningless to my president or myself but on the other hand I’m enraged that he’s being prosecuted for just other reasons.
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On the one hand this person is absolutely meaningless to my president or myself but on the other hand I’m enraged that he’s being prosecuted for just other reasons.
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Yes, that’s correct
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Why does CNN, the great protector, want the names of the jurors?
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Why does CNN, the great protector, want the names of the jurors?
if you are going to post, at least post the whole truth
filed on behalf of CNN, Washington Post, BuzzFeed, POLITICO, New York Times, NBC Universal, and the Associated Press
I agree though, no reason to dox these people
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How positively Gotti like.
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Isn’t it typical for news agencies to contact jurors for interviews after big trials like this one?
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On the one hand this person is absolutely meaningless to my president or myself but on the other hand I’m enraged that he’s being prosecuted for just other reasons.
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Yes, that’s correct
That’s very cute but not really true. The outrage is over the disproportionate attention being given to this case by the media and their frenzy to connect it to Trump and Russian COLUSION. If the guy broke the law, I’ve got no issue with prosecuting him.
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(https://i.giphy.com/media/ruR7cKoFBNzIA/giphy.gif)
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Whining about too much coverage is so baller
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Isn’t it typical for news agencies to contact jurors for interviews after big trials like this one?
They're still deliberating. They are prohibited from speaking to anyone about the case during trial and deliberations. That's an instruction they are given literally before every break.
After they render a verdict the judge typically leaves it up to the jurors as to whether they want to talk to counsel or the media.
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Nice pre-emptive intimidation by the collective “free press”.
Figures that the New NeoCons aka The NeoStatists are on board.
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Isn’t it typical for news agencies to contact jurors for interviews after big trials like this one?
They're still deliberating. They are prohibited from speaking to anyone about the case during trial and deliberations. That's an instruction they are given literally before every break.
After they render a verdict the judge typically leaves it up to the jurors as to whether they want to talk to counsel or the media.
Exactly. It’s all pretty normal.
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On the one hand this person is absolutely meaningless to my president or myself but on the other hand I’m enraged that he’s being prosecuted for just other reasons.
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Yes, that’s correct
That’s very cute but not really true. The outrage is over the disproportionate attention being given to this case by the media and their frenzy to connect it to Trump and Russian COLUSION. If the guy broke the law, I’ve got no issue with prosecuting him.
Quit watching cable news... It's amazing how it's not really talked about at all in the normal world.
Always looking for things to be offended by.... Even though you don't care at all about this guy because he like did nothing for Trump... Maybe got him a cup of coffee. Once....
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Or they've known either other for 40 years... Either way.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/a_timeline_of_paul_manafort_s_relationship_with_the_trump_world.html
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Lol, the new normal is that these jurors will be attacked for not rendering the right verdict and the media outlets should be denied this preemptive intimidation request.
FFS Dug, SMDH, join the real world.
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Lol, the new normal is that these jurors will be attacked for not rendering the right verdict and the media outlets should be denied this preemptive intimidation request.
FFS Dug, SMDH, join the real world.
Hemmy, do your thing
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Or they've known either other for 40 years... Either way.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/a_timeline_of_paul_manafort_s_relationship_with_the_trump_world.html
When does the “powerful people know a lot of people” defense come into play, Phil?
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Lol, the new normal is that these jurors will be attacked for not rendering the right verdict and the media outlets should be denied this preemptive intimidation request.
FFS Dug, SMDH, join the real world.
You’re right as always, Dax.
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Or they've known either other for 40 years... Either way.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/a_timeline_of_paul_manafort_s_relationship_with_the_trump_world.html
When does the “powerful people know a lot of people” defense come into play, Phil?
Lol might as well play all the cards you have.
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Same guy who had a little hissy fit over grand juries.
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Or they've known either other for 40 years... Either way.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/a_timeline_of_paul_manafort_s_relationship_with_the_trump_world.html
When does the “powerful people know a lot of people” defense come into play, Phil?
Lol might as well play all the cards you have.
So the “people of influence have huge lists of connections” defense is out?
Dang, you guys always play that card for your guy/woman.
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Same guy who had a little hissy fit over grand juries.
What does that have to do with anything?
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On the one hand this person is absolutely meaningless to my president or myself but on the other hand I’m enraged that he’s being prosecuted for just other reasons.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, that’s correct
That’s very cute but not really true. The outrage is over the disproportionate attention being given to this case by the media and their frenzy to connect it to Trump and Russian COLUSION. If the guy broke the law, I’ve got no issue with prosecuting him.
Quit watching cable news... It's amazing how it's not really talked about at all in the normal world.
Always looking for things to be offended by.... Even though you don't care at all about this guy because he like did nothing for Trump... Maybe got him a cup of coffee. Once....
Yep. “Media” covers pretty much whatever you want depending on what bubble you choose to live in. Pretty much 100% of my knowledge of the Manafort trial over the past 24+ hours has come from this thread.
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Same guy who had a little hissy fit over grand juries.
What does that have to do with anything?
Lol
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:fistpump:
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Guilty on 8 charges. Jury hung on other 10 charges, i.e. mistrial as to those.
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reporter running from the courthouse to her phone.
https://twitter.com/NPRmelissablock/status/1032004898114752518
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
What qualifies as big news these days. :lol:
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Yeah, no one was interested in this trial at all. Especially dax and fsd, they couldn't care less
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Manafort should have hired a personal injury or patent attorney instead of these incompetent defense attorneys :frown:
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Yeah, no one was interested in this trial at all. Especially dax and fsd, they couldn't care less
That's not what I said.
But I knew you'd be the first to be dumb, as usual.
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Maybe Paul will have better luck in his trial next month.
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https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/893486383750316032
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So, his tax fraud is because he parked money earned overseas to not pay taxes, but then bought stupid crap in the us (eg, ostrich skin jacket) via foreign wire transfer, thereby repatriating the income but not reporting it.
That's a pretty hilarious eff up on his part. :lol:
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His income dried up when the soviets reclaimed ukraine! :lol:
COLUSION!
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Lock Him Up!!
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Found the west Virginian dax
https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1032012919196852227
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Found the west Virginian dax
https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1032012919196852227
Good to know that you, like The Big Tuck, always have me on your mind.
BTW, you'll be extremely happy to know, but you probably already do know. That Hillary is hosting campaign fund raising dinners. It's gonna be a great day for you when she announces, Libbot. :drool: for you.
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Found the west Virginian dax
https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1032012919196852227
Unsurprisingly, the Trumper is more "informed" than libtard7
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The 2008 co-campaign chair for the resident LibBots guy was indicted and convicted on Federal campaign charges a few years later.
Using resident LibBot logic are we really supposed to believe that it was the first time this "inner circle" had mis-used campaign funds? Come on, your guy had to know (using resident LibBot logic).
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The dude is from Chicago, his inner circle is likely all criminals.
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Found the west Virginian dax
https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1032012919196852227
Good to know that you, like The Big Tuck, always have me on your mind.
BTW, you'll be extremely happy to know, but you probably already do know. That Hillary is hosting campaign fund raising dinners. It's gonna be a great day for you when she announces, Libbot. :drool: for you.
But her dinners :curse:
Lol, you're a weird dude dax
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Found the west Virginian dax
https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1032012919196852227
Good to know that you, like The Big Tuck, always have me on your mind.
BTW, you'll be extremely happy to know, but you probably already do know. That Hillary is hosting campaign fund raising dinners. It's gonna be a great day for you when she announces, Libbot. :drool: for you.
But her dinners :curse:
Lol, you're a weird dude dax
Mad, hardly. I'm pleased for you that your candidate of choice is holding dinners . . . call them trial balloons for how things feel for 2020.
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The dude is from Chicago, his inner circle is likely all criminals.
Campaign treasurer formed a company that started scooping up enterprises being attacked by the Obama Administration and under financial duress because of those attacks, for pennies on the dollar. Come on, the guy just had to know . . . inner circle and what not.
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Sysgender's guy beto has a couple dui and a b&e on his record. Not sure if that's inner circle enough.
His mom launders money for drug cartels, too!
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Would like to see a comparison of how many times Dax/FSD/KSUW post in the pit on average vs. when some bad news comes out about Trump.
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Would like to see a comparison of how many times Dax/FSD/KSUW post in the pit on average vs. when some bad news comes out about Trump.
LOL, you're so weird.
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Turning the republican party into a criminal organization to own the libs #lawandorder
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Drain the swamp
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So for purposes of our publication, is the talking point:
1.) that's not a crime!
2.) Trump hardly knew that dude, he was only there 2 months!
3.) but Hillary
We need to get the formatting straight
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So for purposes of our publication, is the talking point:
1.) that's not a crime!
2.) Trump hardly knew that dude, he was only there 2 months!
3.) but Hillary
We need to get the formatting straight
Just using precedence as our guide here. John Edwards, a million bucks . . . "campaign laws not applicable'.
Obama's co-campaign chair gets convicted of campaign fund crimes a couple of years later . . . no way Obama could know that he was that kind of guy, big circle, POTUS knows lots of people etc. etc. etc and what not. Obama campaign fined for not accounting for contributions properly . . . nothing to see here.
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So for purposes of our publication, is the talking point:
1.) that's not a crime!
2.) Trump hardly knew that dude, he was only there 2 months!
3.) but Hillary
We need to get the formatting straight
Just using precedence as our guide here. John Edwards, a million bucks . . . "campaign laws not applicable'.
Obama's co-campaign chair gets convicted of campaign fund crimes a couple of years later . . . no way Obama could know that he was that kind of guy, big circle, POTUS knows lots of people etc. etc. etc and what not. Obama campaign fined for not accounting for contributions properly . . . nothing to see here.
I need some clarification, Edwards went down for that though right? I think the Obama thing was the right result.
I would say just wait for Cohen's testimony about whether Trump knew about it/directed it.
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https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1032016001104310273
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so people in the WH think they aren't attacking the Mueller investigation?
Do they not see the whining tweets?
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So for purposes of our publication, is the talking point:
1.) that's not a crime!
2.) Trump hardly knew that dude, he was only there 2 months!
3.) but Hillary
We need to get the formatting straight
Just using precedence as our guide here. John Edwards, a million bucks . . . "campaign laws not applicable'.
Obama's co-campaign chair gets convicted of campaign fund crimes a couple of years later . . . no way Obama could know that he was that kind of guy, big circle, POTUS knows lots of people etc. etc. etc and what not. Obama campaign fined for not accounting for contributions properly . . . nothing to see here.
I need some clarification, Edwards went down for that though right? I think the Obama thing was the right result.
I would say just wait for Cohen's testimony about whether Trump knew about it/directed it.
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0531/Is-John-Edwards-verdict-the-last-straw-for-campaign-finance
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
The best part is that Cohen was represented by the Clinton's favorite lawyer, and now he's out there spewing claims with no evidence as of yet that you LibBots are eating up.
I mean, this set up is beautiful, brave-o, LibBot nation.
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
The best part is that Cohen was represented by the Clinton's favorite lawyer, and now he's out there spewing claims with no evidence as of yet that you LibBots are eating up.
I mean, this set up is beautiful, brave-o, LibBot nation.
I think Cohen would disagree that was the best part
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
The best part is that Cohen was represented by the Clinton's favorite lawyer, and now he's out there spewing claims with no evidence as of yet that you LibBots are eating up.
I mean, this set up is beautiful, brave-o, LibBot nation.
I think Cohen would disagree that was the best part
He's one guy. You've got the Clinton's bag man working the TV circuit right now (BTW, he'd also like you to contribute to Cohen's defense fund if you have some extra cash, Dug).
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Can we please all try to keep our threads a little better organized? We've got a Russian COLUSION (:lol:) thread. We've got this Paul Manafort (:zzz:) thread. And now SD just set up a new Cohen thread (:flush:).
Come on guys, we all need to do our part.
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
edwards had a better array of facts on his side. because no one raided his attorney's office.
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Apparently Cohen should have hired Edward's counsel
The best part is that Cohen was represented by the Clinton's favorite lawyer, and now he's out there spewing claims with no evidence as of yet that you LibBots are eating up.
I mean, this set up is beautiful, brave-o, LibBot nation.
I think Cohen would disagree that was the best part
He's one guy. You've got the Clinton's bag man working the TV circuit right now (BTW, he'd also like you to contribute to Cohen's defense fund if you have some extra cash, Dug).
Can I deduct it?
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https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1032463982408425472
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https://twitter.com/CillizzaCNN/status/1032261900099354630
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Man, will be fantastic watching the meltdown run into that gazillion gallons of jet fuel if that happens.
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:cheers:
Paul Manafort. He’s on trial for tax evasion and related charges from over a decade ago? Somehow this is part of the special counsel investigation but it’s tough to understand how. Case has gone to jury. And the jury is now asking for definition of “reasonable doubt.” :facepalm:
:fatty:
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nobody has ever done anything wrong ever because someone else has done something similar and didn't get in trouble for it.
Your ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I will prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt, that many people commit ________________________ every day and are walking free. So my client cannot be guilty.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/women-for-cohen-michael-cohen-funded-account-promoting-sex-symbol-2019-1
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Pfffffffft lol
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Will be absolute gold when Trump colluded with Russia and Cohen was tasked with it and that was the extent of the COLUSION along with just giving the NRA a bunch of money.
The funniest part is that more than anything, Anthony Weiner being a complete freak causing the laptop to get subpoenaed with "possibly new emails" coming out was a much bigger deal than any of this stuff.
Hillary is going to realize she blew it all on her own. What an amazing tour through the absolute worst people in America.
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that was the extent of the COLUSION along with just giving the NRA a bunch of money.
I don't know if this is merely part of your hypothetical. Given that you are a skeptic, though, I'm curious if you have any idea about how many contacts Trump people have had with Russian officials and Russian agents.
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is katkid mainlining glenn greenwald? that would explain a good bit, come to think of it.
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I don't doubt that Trump and co. had lots of Russian contacts, but I still don't know what they actually got from the Russians that was some incredibly devious psyop that tricked the American people en masse in to electing Trump.
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I don't doubt that Trump and co. had lots of Russian contacts, but I still don't know what they actually got from the Russians that was some incredibly devious psyop that tricked the American people en masse in to electing Trump.
you should look into it more.
you're also conflating the idea of conspiring with a foreign power with winning the election. whatever trump did or didn't get in exchange is not really the point.
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I don't doubt that Trump and co. had lots of Russian contacts, but I still don't know what they actually got from the Russians that was some incredibly devious psyop that tricked the American people en masse in to electing Trump.
Out of all of the people on each side that could be getting all sorts of things, why focus this narrowly?
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I don't doubt that Trump and co. had lots of Russian contacts, but I still don't know what they actually got from the Russians that was some incredibly devious psyop that tricked the American people en masse in to electing Trump.
you should look into it more.
you're also conflating the idea of conspiring with a foreign power with winning the election. whatever trump did or didn't get in exchange is not really the point.
I think I have a pretty good handle on it.
I am not conflating it, the entire story is a Thanksgiving plate where the mashed potatoes of Trump are touching the green bean casserole of Putin and the gravy is that Hillary would've won if we could just prove this case with the help of Mueller and the FBI! That is the story for the vast majority of the people following it. The idea that Trump will be found guilty of treason is, to me, a complete fantasy.
Look no further than the twitter feed of former emaw chunkles to see that most democrats now have an entire Q-Anon level conspiracy that they've spun themselves in to and decide if it may be better to just wait and see what comes then to declare that we know what happened. They think he is getting perp walked out of the White House! So, my skepticism is within this context.
I absolutely think Trump is a crook and I absolutely think he/his campaign colluded with Russia in a completely stupid and incompetent manner.
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I guess I'm curious as to chum1 and sys' theory of the case.
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There's a lot to it. Here are some things that should be questioned just off the top of my head.
Trump seems very involved in Russian money laundering.
Trump parrots Russia talking points.
Trump advocates pro Russia policy.
Trump acts like Russia's lackey literally 100% of the time.
Trump people have had 100 contacts with Russian officials/agents.
They tried to hide and/or lie about all of the contacts.
Lots of super suspicious timing of these contacts.
Trump has talked privately with Putin five times and no one knows about what.
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I guess I'm curious as to chum1 and sys' theory of the case.
i think he committed crimes with russians, mostly money laundering type stuff and the russian govt is fully aware/participatory in those crimes and consequently trump has been and remains subservient to russian interests.
i also think russia helped his campaign much in the same way they've interfered in elections across europe (maybe more widely, but afaik every other country i've heard of has been in europe). his campaign was aware of the help and did nothing to stop it and encouraged it in mostly indirect ways.
either of those would be sufficient for a functioning democract to remove him from office. we are barely that, at best. i hope he is criminally prosecuted when he leaves office. a pardon would infuriate me.
the extent to which russian efforts influenced the outcome of the election is unknowable and unimportant.
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I don't doubt that Trump and co. had lots of Russian contacts, but I still don't know what they actually got from the Russians that was some incredibly devious psyop that tricked the American people en masse in to electing Trump.
you should look into it more.
you're also conflating the idea of conspiring with a foreign power with winning the election. whatever trump did or didn't get in exchange is not really the point.
I think I have a pretty good handle on it.
I am not conflating it, the entire story is a Thanksgiving plate where the mashed potatoes of Trump are touching the green bean casserole of Putin and the gravy is that Hillary would've won if we could just prove this case with the help of Mueller and the FBI! That is the story for the vast majority of the people following it. The idea that Trump will be found guilty of treason is, to me, a complete fantasy.
Look no further than the twitter feed of former emaw chunkles to see that most democrats now have an entire Q-Anon level conspiracy that they've spun themselves in to and decide if it may be better to just wait and see what comes then to declare that we know what happened. They think he is getting perp walked out of the White House! So, my skepticism is within this context.
I absolutely think Trump is a crook and I absolutely think he/his campaign colluded with Russia in a completely stupid and incompetent manner.
Never realized KK was a Trumpalo. How embarrassing.
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I guess I don't really disagree with much of what you said there sys. But I do find it incredible that you still think that this country has any sort of functioning institutions or that powerful people are ever held to account. I also think Trump is a pretty weak case compared to the litany of monsters that have patrolled the same halls of our republic.
I mean does anyone even remember the Iraq war any more? Does anyone think this is worse than Iran-Contra? The entire Republican Party still holds up Reagan as a god. Why is anyone even questioning what is going to happen here?
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Remember when Obama was not actually going to prosecute anyone for torturing people, but was just going to assist in the release of a report by the Senate in to torture that would at least preserve the truth of what happened and let history condemn those responsible?
Then remember how Brennan (in between drone strikes) stonewalled the investigation, spied on the Senate to find out what they were doing, lied about that, then admitted it, then nothing really happened and now Brennan gets mad at Trump on twitter and gets soft lighting features in all the news magazines.
How can anyone look at this and think that this is all about Trump breaking our precious democracy?
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I'd say a fairly significant difference between Trump and others are the interests of whom they believe they're acting on behalf.
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I'd say a fairly significant difference between Trump and others are the interests of whom they believe they're acting on behalf.
I don't think Trump is acting in the best interests of Americans anyway?
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I'd say a fairly significant difference between Trump and others are the interests of whom they believe they're acting on behalf.
I don't think Trump is acting in the best interests of Americans anyway?
He mostly acts on behalf of own interests, which mostly align with Russia's, and happen to be mostly against America's. e.g. NATO. To me, that seems like a MAJOR issue for a U.S. president. And not very run-of the-mill in any way.
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i agree with chum1 on his last point. and i have a higher opinion and higher expectations of our country's institutions and past govt officials than katkid and dax have.
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i agree with chum1 on his last point. and i have a higher opinion and higher expectations of our country's institutions and past govt officials than katkid and dax have.
Where would you rank Trump among the last 5 presidents?
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I think he is the worst president we have had since there has been universal suffrage.
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
So, second only to Ol' Hickory in terms of evil acts?
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Where would you rank Trump among the last 5 presidents?
i consider it indisputable that gwb made decisions with greater negative consequences (so far), but trump is by far the worst of the five. intentions don't always match results.
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My theory is a lot simpler. Trump is a greedy idiot who surrounds himself with greedy idiots and Putin/Russia exploited that to raise Russia’s status on the world stage while simultaneously lowering America’s.
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Trump is a modern day Harding. Some of the parallels are uncanny.
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
So, second only to Ol' Hickory in terms of evil acts?
In terms of loving the crap out of being cruel and evil.
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Look no further than the twitter feed of former emaw chunkles
Can I have this
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
So, second only to Ol' Hickory in terms of evil acts?
In terms of loving the crap out of being cruel and evil.
IMO I don't think Trump has the ability to do anything truly heinous. Checks and balances seem to be working in the face of his extreme rhetoric and anti-democratic proclivities.
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the check of him being lazy and the balance of him being incompetent seem to be doing more work than checks and balances supposedly built into our government structures.
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the check of him being lazy and the balance of him being incompetent seem to be doing more work than checks and balances supposedly built into our government structures.
this
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yeah, if trump wasn't taking 7 hours of "executive time" every day, he'd be a truly terrifying president.
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
So, second only to Ol' Hickory in terms of evil acts?
In terms of loving the crap out of being cruel and evil.
IMO I don't think Trump has the ability to do anything truly heinous. Checks and balances seem to be working in the face of his extreme rhetoric and anti-democratic proclivities.
I guess if you don't believe putting kids in a separate jail from their parents, deporting the parents without the kids, and having no plan or idea how to reunite the kids with the parents is evil, then he probably can't do anything evil.
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I always hated Andrew Jackson most for his cruelty and evil. Trump may be too stupid and oblivious to hate more. It totally triggers me that Trump has Jackson's portrait up in the Oval Office. (At Bannon's recommendation. Trump, of course, knows nothing of anything about history.)
So, second only to Ol' Hickory in terms of evil acts?
In terms of loving the crap out of being cruel and evil.
IMO I don't think Trump has the ability to do anything truly heinous. Checks and balances seem to be working in the face of his extreme rhetoric and anti-democratic proclivities.
I guess if you don't believe putting kids in a separate jail from their parents, deporting the parents without the kids, and having no plan or idea how to reunite the kids with the parents is evil, then he probably can't do anything evil.
Yeah, that's the one thing that came to mind. But the Flores Settlement Agreement complicates that.
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Yeah, that's the one thing that came to mind. But the Flores Settlement Agreement complicates that.
no, no it does not at all.
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Yeah, that's the one thing that came to mind. But the Flores Settlement Agreement complicates that.
no, no it does not at all.
The administration deserves blame here, don't get me wrong. But the FSA mandates that minors must be treated differently than adults. The administration is trying to terminate the FSA by finally promulgating regulations that implement the substantive provisions of the consent decree (which dates back to 1997), but those regulations have not yet taken effect. The public comment period closed on Nov. 6, so they may be imminent. The issue with the family separation thing seems to be about improperly classifying kids as UACs, thus fast-tracking them for release while keeping their adult relatives detained. When this crap started to go down last summer, DHS was petitioning federal courts for temporary relief from the FSA so that they could implement the family unification policy that the people desired.
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they shut down a monitored release program that had like 99% of asylum applicants showing up in court.
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they shut down a monitored release program that had like 99% of asylum applicants showing up in court.
And that was a dick move. However, they believed they were still required to release children, hence the eff up.
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there were still required to release the children. they got that part right.
they were not required to separate them from their families, put the children in hellish kinderprisons, not maintain records, haphazardly separately deport sometimes the adult and sometimes the child and end up effectively orphaning hundreds of children. hence the "eff up".
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there were still required to release the children. they got that part right.
they were not required to separate them from their families, put the children in hellish kinderprisons, not maintain records, haphazardly separately deport sometimes the adult and sometimes the child and end up effectively orphaning hundreds of children. hence the "eff up".
The lawsuits regarding conditions at detention facilities for Unaccompanied Alien Children predate the policy implemented last summer. I thought we were discussing the "family separation policy." Look, you and I are largely on the same page when it comes to this. But the blame doesn't fall solely at Trump's feet. If anything, Trump scorn has finally caused people to pay attention to what's going on at the border. Even so, it's a very complicated situation with tons of competing interests involved. It's very easy to moralize about it. Much harder, however, to actually manage a process that will be acceptable to a majority of Americans. It's a Herculean task we have at the Southern border. We need more of everything: immigration judges, lawyers, acceptable detention centers, etc.
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I think it’s pretty fair in this circumstance to consider that Trump’s administration openly supported separating children from their parents as a deterrent to crossing the border. I’m not aware that any other administration took that stance even if it occasionally happened before.
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i hope our next commander in chief can make america the good guys again (MATGGA)