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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: renocat on March 24, 2018, 09:14:42 PM
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:cry:
Why does it seem we can never get to the promised land in either basketball or football?
So close ........
I am not sure next will be any stronger if we do not have talent upgrades in bigs, and I mean serious.
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:frown:
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19-14
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We should be good again! Hopefully the shitty ooc auto-win opponents are top off of their shitty leagues so our stupid KP can be 5 points higher, and all the fucktards who guage our success solely on KP won't have anything to whine about.
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Ranked 20th the start the year. Slide out of rankings to start conference play, 11-7 3rd in big12 but not a serious threat to win it. 6/7 seed that wins 1 game in the tournament.
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Top 2 in Big 12.
3 seed or better.
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We should be good again! Hopefully the shitty ooc auto-win opponents are top off of their shitty leagues so our stupid KP can be 5 points higher, and all the fucktards who guage our success solely on KP won't have anything to whine about.
you're thinking of rpi.
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I love kenpom and put plenty of stock into his system, but at some point I also use some common sense when comparing teams. Baylor and Texas are both ahead of us despite season sweeps of both. We won 2 of 3 from TCU. Yes, I know how the system works and the overall resume has some merit for the logic of why they are ranked ahead of us, but I also can't discount head to head results when looking at the teams ahead of us. We had a weird kenpom year and I think we are better than the #40 team in the country. Some years we were probably worse than where we finished. (like last year)
JMHO.
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I think that’s what it really comes down to. It’s fine to rank teams based on systems like KP, but most people (sys might be the exception) don’t care about KP finishes. They care about conference finishes and tournament success.
It’s probably not objectively fair to say one coach’s team was better than the other based solely on those two things plus total wins, but I don’t think it’s wrong to do so even if it ultimately relies just as much on what other teams are doing.
It really comes down to what makes one team “better” than another. There’s like a million ways to answer that question, so I think it’s excusable for people to instead just look at tangible achievements.
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I love kenpom and put plenty of stock into his system, but at some point I also use some common sense when comparing teams. Baylor and Texas are both ahead of us despite season sweeps of both. We won 2 of 3 from TCU. Yes, I know how the system works and the overall resume has some merit for the logic of why they are ranked ahead of us, but I also can't discount head to head results when looking at the teams ahead of us. We had a weird kenpom year and I think we are better than the #40 team in the country. Some years we were probably worse than where we finished. (like last year)
JMHO.
i said as much mid-year, but looking back, it's hard to ignore that every time kstate would string some good games together and get it down to the low/mid 30s, they'd lose to tulsa, or get blown out by west virginia or tech or loyola and pop right back up into the 40s.
probably important to keep in mind there isn't that much difference between 30th and 40th.
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I love kenpom and put plenty of stock into his system, but at some point I also use some common sense when comparing teams. Baylor and Texas are both ahead of us despite season sweeps of both. We won 2 of 3 from TCU. Yes, I know how the system works and the overall resume has some merit for the logic of why they are ranked ahead of us, but I also can't discount head to head results when looking at the teams ahead of us. We had a weird kenpom year and I think we are better than the #40 team in the country. Some years we were probably worse than where we finished. (like last year)
JMHO.
i said as much mid-year, but looking back, it's hard to ignore that every time kstate would string some good games together and get it down to the low/mid 30s, they'd lose to tulsa, or get blown out by west virginia or tech or loyola and pop right back up into the 40s.
probably important to keep in mind there isn't that much difference between 30th and 40th.
Yeah, we were nearly as poor at playing the kenpom game as we were the RPI game this year.
I'm just saying there is no way I can be convinced that last year's team was oscar's 2nd best at K-State. kenpom order is 2013, 2017, 2018, 2014. I'd say it should be 2013, 2018, 2014, 2017. I also can't fathom 2016 being only 10 spots worse than 2014.
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well, i disagree there. i do think last year's team was better. the scores aren't perfectly precise, but a difference of almost 3 points - that's real. not huge, but real.
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that 2016 team was pretty unlucky. but that's kind of how it goes in the 13/14 range. those can be very satisfying seasons or very frustrating based on luck. 2016 v 2018 probably about hit both extremes though.
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2014, 2017, and 2018 are basically indistinguishable. Both with kenpom and your eyes. I don't know how you could feel strongly that one was significantly better than the others unless you put way too much stock into single elimination tournament results.
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2014, 2017, and 2018 are basically indistinguishable. Both with kenpom and your eyes. I don't know how you could feel strongly that one was significantly better than the others unless you put way too much stock into single elimination tournament results.
I'd be lying if i said I didn't. Plus finishing higher in the league (yes, I know 4th this year over 5th in 2014 isn't a big difference).
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We should be good again! Hopefully the shitty ooc auto-win opponents are top off of their shitty leagues so our stupid KP can be 5 points higher, and all the fucktards who guage our success solely on KP won't have anything to whine about.
you're thinking of rpi.
No, i just added the kp points back from an average sos compared to our horrific sos and figured we'd be kp~16 bc I highly doubt the scores would be marginally different in pud games where walkons play 4-8 minutes.
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2014, 2017, and 2018 are basically indistinguishable. Both with kenpom and your eyes. I don't know how you could feel strongly that one was significantly better than the others unless you put way too much stock into single elimination tournament results.
A major oscar criticism coming into the year was his teams aren't "tough enough" to win on the road. oscar crushed that this year, making 2018 better than 2014 and 2017.
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2014, 2017, and 2018 are basically indistinguishable. Both with kenpom and your eyes. I don't know how you could feel strongly that one was significantly better than the others unless you put way too much stock into single elimination tournament results.
I'd be lying if i said I didn't. Plus finishing higher in the league (yes, I know 4th this year over 5th in 2014 isn't a big difference).
2017 lost a lot of close games, 2018 only lost one in conference. It's crazy, but the difference between 8-10 and 10-8 is a couple of coinflips, really. Plus wins over OSU, WVU, and BU (2x) last season were all "more impressive" than the best conference win this season (TCU 2x).
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If the new Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) tiered seeding system wasn't in place we'd have been a 6 or a 7 this year.
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I highly doubt the scores would be marginally different in pud games where walkons play 4-8 minutes.
the entire premise of kenpom is that your assumption is wrong. it is fair that you don't get great precision in games between teams with large differences in quality. but kstate plays like 25 games against opponents of similar quality. kp should get a good read on them.
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2018 vs 2014 is a good comparison.
2017 had more impressive conference wins (WV, BU twice), but had more unimpressive losses. Losses to 6-12 TCU at home, double digit home loss to an eventual 10 seed Osu, blowout loss to bad OU team. Also lost at Tech, another non tourney team. Close losses are partly because we weren't as good last year.