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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: renocat on March 10, 2018, 09:37:56 AM
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http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-hate-at-the-heart-of-identity-politics/21193#.WqP3ehlMFdY
Us conservatives are guilty of this too. It's tough to dislike the beliefs of someone else, but not dislike them especially when they attack you through generalization. I am guilty of this. Hope to do better.
Is hating someone to the point you want something bad to happen to them a good thing? Is a country going to last if the goal is to destroy the person, the family of the person, or the career of a person you oppose? I hope we can rise above the level of a mob of wild dogs that attack other non familiar dogs. Russians are fanning the embers of hate, so are altright, progressives, and ....
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/29/opinion/sunday/how-the-left-learned-to-hate-like-the-right.html
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/09/identity-politics-democrats-preach-hate-toward-conservatives/amp/
Time for SteveDave wisdom.
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is this a good thread to put the women's march stuff? no one cared about it in the wrong with the country thread.
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http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-hate-at-the-heart-of-identity-politics/21193#.WqP3ehlMFdY
Us conservatives are guilty of this too. It's tough to dislike the beliefs of someone else, but not dislike them especially when they attack you through generalization. I am guilty of this. Hope to do better.
Is hating someone to the point you want something bad to happen to them a good thing? Is a country going to last if the goal is to destroy the person, the family of the person, or the career of a person you oppose? I hope we can rise above the level of a mob of wild dogs that attack other non familiar dogs. Russians are fanning the embers of hate, so are altright, progressives, and ....
After reading three/four of those blocks of the same crap; I just really don't give a eff about what some group/party thinks. This gal I never heard of is a rough ridin' bigot whose parents or others she hung around with hated white people and engrained it into her head over her childhood.
End of story.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/nation-of-islam/555332/
there have been some good pieces written on this, some of which are quite forgiving of mallory and her board's position and statements. but i don't see how this is sustainable for the women's march. if their leadership is unable to articulate that farrakhan's rhetoric is anathema and try to explain why they failed to do so in a timely fashion, they forfeit any claim to moral authority.
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The media and progressives are having organisms over Stormy Daniel. Why? Hate. Hate for Trump. He honch on anyone (adult) he wants, and it would not be an impeachable offense. No their hope is to hurt his family. I think they want to tear his marriage apart. Hurt his young son. Big damn laugh!!
Sick. This is why crap people are the only ones who run for office. And all of the conservatives saying thats right on the spot, we have been guilty too, even me. It's fun to be in a mob gang pile, but disastrous for our Country in the long run.
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The media and progressives are having organisms over Stormy Daniel. Why? Hate. Hate for Trump. He honch on anyone (adult) he wants, and it would not be an impeachable offense. No their hope is to hurt his family. I think they want to tear his marriage apart. Hurt his young son. Big damn laugh!!
Sick. This is why crap people are the only ones who run for office. And all of the conservatives saying thats right on the spot, we have been guilty too, even me. It's fun to be in a mob gang pile, but disastrous for our Country in the long run.
Literally none of this is true and is 100% projection from your tribe's issues. Further, he broke the law, and this is yet another crime that the right is giving him a pass for.
And before you pull anymore bullshit about hating his "marriage" and wanting to hurt his relationship with his family. Check out what your tribe said and did to the Obama family since Michelle dared to show her arms in public.
Hypocrisy is fun.
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The media and progressives are having organisms over Stormy Daniel. Why? Hate. Hate for Trump. He honch on anyone (adult) he wants, and it would not be an impeachable offense. No their hope is to hurt his family. I think they want to tear his marriage apart. Hurt his young son. Big damn laugh!!
Sick. This is why crap people are the only ones who run for office. And all of the conservatives saying thats right on the spot, we have been guilty too, even me. It's fun to be in a mob gang pile, but disastrous for our Country in the long run.
Literally none of this is true and is 100% projection from your tribe's issues. Further, he broke the law, and this is yet another crime that the right is giving him a pass for.
And before you pull anymore bullshit about hating his "marriage" and wanting to hurt his relationship with his family. Check out what your tribe said and did to the Obama family since Michelle dared to show her arms in public.
Hypocrisy is fun.
You are absolutely right about conservatives and Obama. Realizing you are a hypocrite is not fun. We are becoming so much about gotcha politics that meaningful discourse and reasoned solutions to problems can't be derived. I not sure how we got to this point. My tribe has been shameful. Trump sure ain't the hell helping. And bloodthirsty liberal haters ain't helping especially militant factions.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/nation-of-islam/555332/
there have been some good pieces written on this, some of which are quite forgiving of mallory and her board's position and statements. but i don't see how this is sustainable for the women's march. if their leadership is unable to articulate that farrakhan's rhetoric is anathema and try to explain why they failed to do so in a timely fashion, they forfeit any claim to moral authority.
Very interesting read.
I find it pretty hypocritical that the March tacitly supports the NOI despite their views (which are almost universally regarded as abhorrent), while the March also rejects women and groups who don't align with their views on other issues, like abortion.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/nation-of-islam/555332/
there have been some good pieces written on this, some of which are quite forgiving of mallory and her board's position and statements. but i don't see how this is sustainable for the women's march. if their leadership is unable to articulate that farrakhan's rhetoric is anathema and try to explain why they failed to do so in a timely fashion, they forfeit any claim to moral authority.
Very interesting read.
I find it pretty hypocritical that the March tacitly supports the NOI despite their views (which are almost universally regarded as abhorrent), while the March also rejects women and groups who don't align with their views on other issues, like abortion.
Not endorsing anything or saying Mallory is right, but there's this:
This is also where the resistance to condemning Farrakhan or the Nation can come from: a sense that despite the Nation’s many flaws, it is present for black people in America’s most deprived and segregated enclaves when the state itself is not present, to say nothing of those who demand its condemnation.
While they may not find any positives from anti-abortion groups they reject. (I don't know anything about any specific groups they reject)
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But yeah based on that article it seems like Mallory is being loyal based on personal ties and should do what pretty much everyone in high level politics has done and denounce Farrakhan.
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at least mallory has the excuse of having some personal history with the nation of islam. the other woman, sarsour, doesn't have that excuse (that i know of) and she was every bit as oblivious.
i've been surprised that the issue hasn't received more coverage.
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While they may not find any positives from anti-abortion groups they reject. (I don't know anything about any specific groups they reject)
Sure, but I find it highly unlikely that if some fiercely anti-abortion group offered some other benefit (like free pap smears or something) that they'd be welcomed with open arms. I think it's hypocrisy. Which is fine -- it's Mallory's group and she gets to decide who she wants and who she doesn't, but her selective way of determining whose views are overlooked undercuts her message of inclusiveness.
The fact of the matter is that she must know that the NOI stuff is a bad look for the March, but she views the NOI and Farrakhan as a net positive, despite being fiercely anti-semetic and homophobic. I think that's a bizarre philosophical stance to take given the group she represents.
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Dlew, did the march reject a group like you describe or are you calling them hypocrites based on a hypothetical?
@sys, I feel like this has been talked about quite a bit (I mean Jake Tapper is a pretty high profile media personality) but also I think most people don't realize the women's march is actually a real organization.
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I'm still not sure I believe that the Women's March is a real organization. When I google it though, the news feed is all about Farrakhan.
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@sys, I feel like this has been talked about quite a bit (I mean Jake Tapper is a pretty high profile media personality) but also I think most people don't realize the women's march is actually a real organization.
tapper tweeted about it, he didn't cover it on his show (afaik). some jewish publications as well as the sort of comprehensive public policy publications/websites like the atlantic, nymag and the ilk have run pieces. other than that it's mostly conservative media. i haven't seen anything on mainstream tv, radio or in newspaper syndication.
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do what pretty much everyone in high level politics has done and denounce Farrakhan.
i don't know if you consider us congresspersons to be high-level, but several of the congressmen reported on have been pretty equivocal about backing away. this guy has pretty much refused to do so.
https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/tim-swarens/2018/03/13/swarens-andre-carson-wont-rule-out-future-meetings-louis-farrakhan/415971002/
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do what pretty much everyone in high level politics has done and denounce Farrakhan.
i don't know if you consider us congresspersons to be high-level, but several of the congressmen reported on have been pretty equivocal about backing away. this guy has pretty much refused to do so.
https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/tim-swarens/2018/03/13/swarens-andre-carson-wont-rule-out-future-meetings-louis-farrakhan/415971002/
I mean I've never heard of him but I'd say he counts
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i guess tapper did have a segment on his show. there's also a fresh spate of articles that came out yesterday on the issue.
Tapper followed up his tweets with a news segment in which he and several panelists questioned why some on the left, including Women's March co-chairs Bob Bland, Linda Sarsour, and Carmen Perez, have declined to rebuke Farrakhan's statements.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/on-the-dangers-of-following-louis-farrakhan-w517836
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I mean I've never heard of him but I'd say he counts
i wasn't entirely engaging in rhetorical flourish. barring committee chairs and leadership, it's not entirely apparent to me that house members have any power whatsoever.
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Dlew, did the march reject a group like you describe or are you calling them hypocrites based on a hypothetical?
I thought it was pretty clearly a hypothetical. That said, a cursory check on google shows that the group Feminists for Life of America has worked to pass pro-women legislation (e.g. the Violence Against Women Act and the Child Support Enforcement Act). These are things I'm sure the March supports. Whether or not you agree with their underlying position at all, pro life groups do accomplish some practically good things -- just like the NOI. Yet the pro-life group was excluded. Frankly, I don't have a problem with the group being excluded. It's Mallory's march and she can include or exclude anyone for whatever reason she pleases as far as I care. But her decision making process sure appears to be inconsistent/hypocritical, assuming she doesn't actually share Farrakhan's anti-semetic beliefs.
But even outside that particular example, I think it's a bad idea for the Mallory and the March, a champion of inclusiveness, to associate with a guy like Farrakhan. I don't know how they can criticize Trump for his hateful views and embrace Farrakhan despite his hateful views.
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Like, NOI and Farrakhan get a free pass for hating jews because they provide community and neighborhood security to black people?
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Dlew, did the march reject a group like you describe or are you calling them hypocrites based on a hypothetical?
I thought it was pretty clearly a hypothetical. That said, a cursory check on google shows that the group Feminists for Life of America has worked to pass pro-women legislation (e.g. the Violence Against Women Act and the Child Support Enforcement Act). These are things I'm sure the March supports. Whether or not you agree with their underlying position at all, pro life groups do accomplish some practically good things -- just like the NOI. Yet the pro-life group was excluded. Frankly, I don't have a problem with the group being excluded. It's Mallory's march and she can include or exclude anyone for whatever reason she pleases as far as I care. But her decision making process sure appears to be inconsistent/hypocritical, assuming she doesn't actually share Farrakhan's anti-semetic beliefs.
But even outside that particular example, I think it's a bad idea for the Mallory and the March, a champion of inclusiveness, to associate with a guy like Farrakhan. I don't know how they can criticize Trump for his hateful views and embrace Farrakhan despite his hateful views.
I don't think you're comparing apples to apples as I don't believe Farrakhan or the Nation of Islam are directly partnered with or "embraced" by the women's March as an organization. However, I agree that they should more forcibly condemn his remarks given the current situation.
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Yeah that's fine. I didn't love my comparison either, and I think we're basically splitting hairs. We can all agree that it's pretty rough ridin' weird for the leader of the women's march to be a Farrakhan fan.
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she also got bumped off a plane so big shots can fly, proving once again how intersectional she is.
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http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/404323-california-dems-call-for-boycott-of-in-n-out-after-donation-to
I was listening to Rush yesterday and he was remarking about how left hating are not satisfied at attacking the policies and ideas of conservatives, but are engaging in scorch earth human destruction. Their plan of attack is shut the fluchers up; destroy them, destroy their businesses.
I am sick of this, and the smugness of the left that they think they are righteous angels of the grand religion of socialism where only the chosen elite thrive so they can give piecemeal crumbs of subsistence to the mass of peons.
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part of the problem with ascribing import to a politician's identity rather than their ideas is that it incentives them to manufacture or embellish their personal history.
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/new-york-city/julia-salazar-brother-mother-question-claims.html