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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: renocat on October 31, 2017, 09:16:30 PM
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Trump tweet after bloodthirsty road killing jihad.
"We must not allow ISIS to return, or enter, our country after defeating them in the Middle East and elsewhere. Enough!"
5:31 PM - Oct 31, 2017
OR ENTER
Keep these killing bastards in a sand dune in the desert in Persia singing to a camel.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nyc-attack-trump-calls-for-stronger-extreme-vetting/ar-AAui5fO
Good.
:Wha:
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Agree that we should deport nevada'rs immediately.
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CBS news reports this guy had a green card. Got to come into US on Obama's Immigration Diversity Lottery. Let a tiger into your house and you may die.
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CBS news reports this guy had a green card. Got to come into US on Obama's Immigration Diversity Lottery. Let a tiger into your house and you may die.
Um the visa lottery was started by Reagan signed into law by Bush but keep going anyways.
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Facts aren’t important here
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Hot damn Reno. Gotta hand it to ya, you really stick to your off the rocker character.
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Isn't it too soon to politicize this and we can talk policy later? Or is that only for white people mowing down kids in school and at concerts?
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I think it's the best time to talk about it.
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Isn't it too soon to politicize this and we can talk policy later? Or is that only for white people mowing down kids in school and at concerts?
Yeah, both sides politicized this seconds before he hit the first person, so let's not point fingers just yet.
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We should ban driving on sidewalks and bike paths.
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We should ban driving on sidewalks and bike paths.
It's common sense
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If only he hadn't had access to an automatic weapon. Ban automatic transmissions now! :driving: :driving: :ridinghorse:
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Agree that we should deport nevada'rs immediately.
Totally agree. Great point as always. Doesn't seem very realistic, though? Because they're already US citizens and here and stuff? But you know what we could maybe do in this case? Maybe re-examine visa programs and tighten vetting for non-US citizen from predominantly Islamic hellholes? Seems like a reasonable solution we could do to help prevent mass murder, and a lot easier to do under our Constitution than deporting all Nevada'rs or banning all guns.
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Haven’t looked this up, but I’d be willing to bet the crime and murder rate of green card holders is significantly lower than US Citizens. It appears vetting is not the problem.
Of course, you probably have data to support your point so I’ll just shut up with my conjecture.
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Isn't it too soon to politicize this and we can talk policy later? Or is that only for white people mowing down kids in school and at concerts?
Yeah, both sides politicized this seconds before he hit the first person, so let's not point fingers just yet.
Who pointed fingers? You do a lot of assuming in your posts. Maybe stop doing that?
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Agree that we should deport nevada'rs immediately.
Totally agree. Great point as always. Doesn't seem very realistic, though? Because they're already US citizens and here and stuff? But you know what we could maybe do in this case? Maybe re-examine visa programs and tighten vetting for non-US citizen from predominantly Islamic hellholes? Seems like a reasonable solution we could do to help prevent mass murder, and a lot easier to do under our Constitution than deporting all Nevada'rs or banning all guns.
^^^^ soft on terrorism
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http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/31/report-nyc-foreign-terror-suspect-entered-u-s-with-diversity-visa-trump-wants-to-end/amp/
“The diversity lottery serves no discernible humanitarian or economic interest,” Cotton explained to Breitbart News. “It is a policy that has far outlived its usefulness and it really doesn’t even serve diversity since Europe is one of the primary uses of it. Even in past efforts at amnesty-first comprehensive immigration reform like we saw in 2013 and 2007, most people agree we should eliminate the diversity lottery. I think it’s a policy that has far outlived its usefulness if it ever had any utility and it’s time to eliminate the diversity lottery.”
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Breitbart :lol:
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I like how the immigration reformers are Pro-American. Breitbart is a treat
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Haven’t looked this up, but I’d be willing to bet the crime and murder rate of green card holders is significantly lower than US Citizens. It appears vetting is not the problem.
Of course, you probably have data to support your point so I’ll just shut up with my conjecture.
So again, you are missing the point. Lets posit that green card holders from predominantly Islamic hellholes (or illegal immigrants - same argument) have a lower violent crime rate than Americans overall. I have no idea if that's true, let's just assume it is. Even if the crime rate is lower, you can still do something about it that you can't do with US citizens: be more careful about letting them in. So let's do that. Because we can. So we should. Comparing crime rates is irrelevant (unless you are tying to argue that the net impact of our lax immigration policy with Islamic hellholes is positive even after accounting for the occasional mass murder - I think a significant majority of Americans would disagree).
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
I also have not heard anyone explain what type of vetting would have prevented this guy from entering the US in this instance.
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So this is interesting. Some crazy group called the Latino Victory Group produced an ad for the upcoming Virginia governor race depicting a truck with a confederate flag and bumper sticker of the GOP candidate attempting to run down Hispanic children. To be clear, this was completely made up.
Anywho, the group initially defended the ad (you stay classy, libs), but finally decided to delete it after a mooslim actually murdered a bunch of people with a truck yesterday in NYC.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453311/virginia-gubernatorial-race-latino-victory-fund-removes-ad (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453311/virginia-gubernatorial-race-latino-victory-fund-removes-ad)
Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
And that's exactly where this "extreme vetting" narrative from the WH will end up.
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
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Haven’t looked this up, but I’d be willing to bet the crime and murder rate of green card holders is significantly lower than US Citizens. It appears vetting is not the problem.
Of course, you probably have data to support your point so I’ll just shut up with my conjecture.
So again, you are missing the point. Lets posit that green card holders from predominantly Islamic hellholes (or illegal immigrants - same argument) have a lower violent crime rate than Americans overall. I have no idea if that's true, let's just assume it is. Even if the crime rate is lower, you can still do something about it that you can't do with US citizens: be more careful about letting them in. So let's do that. Because we can. So we should. Comparing crime rates is irrelevant (unless you are tying to argue that the net impact of our lax immigration policy with Islamic hellholes is positive even after accounting for the occasional mass murder - I think a significant majority of Americans would disagree).
If you eliminate immigration from a pool of people with a lower crime rate than the general population, the overall crime rate goes up. I think our vetting process has done an excellent job so far. If there are obvious improvements that we can make at a reasonable cost, we should make those improvements. We should be expanding immigration, though. We have more demand for immigrant labor than our current system is able to supply.
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
Yeah huge surprise that part of the Surrenderacy is leaning his way
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
And that's exactly where this "extreme vetting" narrative from the WH will end up.
Ok, so go ahead and answer the question.
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Was this dude from an Islamic hellhole?
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If you eliminate immigration from a pool of people with a lower crime rate than the general population, the overall crime rate goes up.
I don't think you intended to argue that hypothetically reducing the overall number of violent crimes by reducing immigration would be a bad thing if it would make the percentage of violent crime across the remaining population go up. That's kind of how it came out.
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
Yeah huge surprise that part of the Surrenderacy is leaning his way
You guys realize Virginia is a blue state and getting bluer as the swamp seeps into the VA burbs....
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Was this dude from an Islamic hellhole?
Yes.
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
Yeah huge surprise that part of the Surrenderacy is leaning his way
You guys realize Virginia is a blue state and getting bluer as the swamp seeps into the VA burbs....
Well before we can discuss, you need to decide whether Virginia is getting bluer or if the GOP is gaining a foothold in an election there.
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Which one
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Former Soviet country with very close ties to the US.
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
And that's exactly where this "extreme vetting" narrative from the WH will end up.
Ok, so go ahead and answer the question.
Because...it currently works as designed? :dunno:
The fact you cannot do much more to improve upon something is a pretty ridiculous argument for scrapping it.
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
And that's exactly where this "extreme vetting" narrative from the WH will end up.
Ok, so go ahead and answer the question.
Because...it currently works as designed? :dunno:
The fact you cannot do much more to improve upon something is a pretty ridiculous argument for scrapping it.
Huh. So we just need to live with the occasional terrorist because immigration from these countries is more important. Ok. If that's your position, that's your position.
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
Yeah huge surprise that part of the Surrenderacy is leaning his way
You guys realize Virginia is a blue state and getting bluer as the swamp seeps into the VA burbs....
I was referencing their history as being on the surrender side and the possibility they want to reclaim some of that loser history.
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We seem to just live with occasional (actually may more frequent than Islamic terrorist acts) mass shootings?
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Side note, how the heck is Virginia even competitive for the GOP in the race?! Did the Dems pick a candidate even less appealing than Hillary? Woof.
Well it was a confederate state so can't say I'm surprised it's leaning red in Trump's America.
Yeah huge surprise that part of the Surrenderacy is leaning his way
You guys realize Virginia is a blue state and getting bluer as the swamp seeps into the VA burbs....
Well before we can discuss, you need to decide whether Virginia is getting bluer or if the GOP is gaining a foothold in an election there.
Both. There's no question VA is getting bluer, which is why this race is so surprising. The Dem's candidate must be terrible (or maybe Gillespie is just awesome, but I kinda doubt that).
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The Immigration Diversity Lottery is supposed to open only to educated people. From a CBS news online article:
"Mirrakhmat Muminov, an Uzbek activist and blogger in Ohio, told BBC News he met Saipov shortly after he arrived in the country and was living in Ohio. Muminov said Saipov "had no knowledge of the Koran" when they met and was not well-educated. He said Saipov soon became depressed and resentful after he was unable to find a job as a truck driver. Muminov said Saipov was radicalized by information he saw on the internet."
Beardboy came to US to be a truck driver, and was too ignorant to get a job. Moved to Florida and evidently went to the Acksquishem Truck Driving School. He was a volunteer roadkiller in NYC. It appears Uber thought he was a bad driver. Why are importing such people? Cheap labor? Guys that can be unionized, and that will vote for Democrats?
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We just have to live with a few hundred toddlers shooting themselves each year because target shooting is fun
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We seem to just live with occasional (actually may more frequent than Islamic terrorist acts) mass shootings?
So Gooch is now the third or fourth liberal to make the same stupid false equivalency? Don't you guys read? The question is whether something can realistically be done to reduce those mass murders. In the case of folks who are already US citizens, a lot less can be done than for the folks we are granting entry to. This really isn't a hard concept to grasp. Liberals cling so stubbornly to such idiotic false equivalencies.
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We just have to live with a few hundred toddlers shooting themselves each year because target shooting is fun
Liberals: We're cool with repealing the second amendment - totally doable - but ZOMG you want to reduce / more carefully vet immigration from predominantly Islamist hellholes?! Fascist!! :shakesfist:
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Brown people = fixable. Military weapons in the hands of people = nothing can be done. Got it.
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No...I think you are the one who is missing the point. The only way to prevent immigrants from coming into this country and committing crimes is totally halt immigration. I think most people understand this, and that those calling for "extreme vetting" realize they are really just saying "keep those foreigners out of my country."
Really? That's the only way? Sounds more like a false choice. But if you really don't think there is any way to improve the vetting, why would you support immigration from those countries?!
And that's exactly where this "extreme vetting" narrative from the WH will end up.
Ok, so go ahead and answer the question.
Because...it currently works as designed? :dunno:
The fact you cannot do much more to improve upon something is a pretty ridiculous argument for scrapping it.
Huh. So we just need to live with the occasional terrorist because immigration from these countries is more important. Ok. If that's your position, that's your position.
It's the rational position.
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We just have to live with a few hundred toddlers shooting themselves each year because target shooting is fun
Liberals: We're cool with repealing the second amendment - totally doable - but ZOMG you want to reduce / more carefully vet immigration from predominantly Islamist hellholes?! Fascist!! :shakesfist:
What do you propose would have kept this fellow out 7 years ago?
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And if this guy is from such a hellhole why isn't it on trump's muslim ban?
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Brown people = fixable. Military weapons in the hands of people = nothing can be done. Got it.
Liberals always make it about skin color. Sad. This is just one of those rational versus irrational way of looking at the world things. Im not going to reason with you. Carry on.
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Huh. So we just need to live with the occasional terrorist because immigration from these countries is more important. Ok. If that's your position, that's your position.
You keep dancing around the point, so let me just spell it out and we can leave it at that.
Me: By all accounts we are doing a good job of vetting currently.
KSUW / Rush / WH: We should do better to avoid these types of people coming into the country!
Everyone: It looks like not much can be done to improve the current vetting measures if we allow people to immigrate at current levels.
Me: Ok. Well at least we are actually improving our economy and rate of crime with current measures.
KSUW / Rush / WH: Welp, guess that means we need to shut down immigration!
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I think a bigger problem than letting him in the country (I haven't paid nearly any attention to this story so correct me if I'm wrong) when there was nothing to suggest he was a terrorist, is that 2 years ago he did begin to be suspected as a terrorist and was questioned by homeland security but they did not have enough evidence. It seems we are actually doing a great job of finding these people but we can't ever get rid of them. Of course due process and whatnot come into play then as well.
Our vetting seems fine, but I would be open on ways to "get" these people when we start to suspect they have turned. Maybe there isn't a good solution for that either tho
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We just have to live with a few hundred toddlers shooting themselves each year because target shooting is fun
Liberals: We're cool with repealing the second amendment - totally doable - but ZOMG you want to reduce / more carefully vet immigration from predominantly Islamist hellholes?! Fascist!! :shakesfist:
What do you propose would have kept this fellow out 7 years ago?
Since he had no education to qualify for the lottery, he should have been offered castration in exchange for a green card. He would have no reasons to die a martyr for Allah; no good to 70 virgins in heaven.
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What's the point of heaven if you can't even get your wallies back
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This guy probably shouldn't have been allowed to stay if he wasn't able to maintain employment.
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We seem to just live with occasional (actually may more frequent than Islamic terrorist acts) mass shootings?
So Gooch is now the third or fourth liberal to make the same stupid false equivalency? Don't you guys read? The question is whether something can realistically be done to reduce those mass murders. In the case of folks who are already US citizens, a lot less can be done than for the folks we are granting entry to. This really isn't a hard concept to grasp. Liberals cling so stubbornly to such idiotic false equivalencies.
So what is your goal? Mine is less people dying.
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https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/925842155515424768
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CBS is rsporting the following:
"The suspect in Tuesday's deadly terror attack in New York City was known to U.S. authorities because his name was associated with the subjects of other FBI counterterrorism investigations in 2015, an intelligence source said, CBS News' Pat Milton reports."
Why in the hell don't we deport green card holders linked to terrorism? They ain't American.
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i think he probably was not a terrorist when he came here 7 years ago. maybe 7 years of people telling him he didn't belong here forced him to find where he did belong.
terrorism is so effective here (America) it's shamefully embarrassing
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How are you defining effective? Which countries are we compared to in declaring it so effective here?
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How are you defining effective? Which countries are we compared to in declaring it so effective here?
effective in regards to the impact on our society, culture, and interpersonal relations.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNq29xpU8AMk7Tg.jpg)
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Lib comparo world rating level: Amaze
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That’s pretty interesting.