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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: DOD Take 2 on September 17, 2017, 08:24:35 AM
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Guys it's time to admit that this is all we'll ever be as long as Snyder is in charge. This needs to be his last season. And don't hire Sean to keep it status quo. If we want another Dr. Pepper we need to move on.
This offense has been puzzling for the last 5 years. We tip our hand with formations and personnel. We don't understand using the hot hand. The offense will run for 15 yards and then throw 3 straight downs with a bum shoulder QB and bad receivers. I'm afraid to say but I think Del Miller might've actually been important to pair with Dimel. Nothing we do anymore is logical. Snyder's not willing to change it (that is if these aren't his own decisions already) and therefor he needs to go.
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Who are you calling guys?
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He's talked about how he's talked to other coaches like Joe and Bobby Bowden about not knowing what to do after retiring & a fear of dying pretty quick like Bear Bryant. I've heard part of the reason he retired the first time was to try to develop something else in his life while he was young enough that football wouldn't be everything & not put himself in a Bear Bryant position. He then watched it happen to one his friends in Joe Paterno dying from his cancer right after being fired.
Bill's staying in that seat until the doctor gives him 2 months to live, he develops dementia, or he's in a wheelchair.
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2 conference titles in nearly 30 years (and one of those was shared) just isn't that special. It's been a wild ride, and i've loved a lot of it, but if he is going to delegate all of his duties then he should watch from the booth and hand it over to someone young and energetic. I'll forever love him for what he's done. Go cats.
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He's talked about how he's talked to other coaches like Joe and Bobby Bowden about not knowing what to do after retiring & a fear of dying pretty quick like Bear Bryant. I've heard part of the reason he retired the first time was to try to develop something else in his life while he was young enough that football wouldn't be everything & not put himself in a Bear Bryant position. He then watched it happen to one his friends in Joe Paterno dying from his cancer right after being fired.
Bill's staying in that seat until the doctor gives him 2 months to live, he develops dementia, or he's in a wheelchair.
i don't think the wheel chair would stop him TBH
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So a little bit of sleep and sobriety isn't enough to calm the hell down? See these are bad takes because you didn't have these feelings yesterday, this was by no means a program defining loss. I mean, it's as standard of a college football loss as you're going to get, so I'm confused at the change of the overhead view of what this program is.
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The reason no one had these feelings before the game is because we thought this season would be different. We thought it could be 2012 (or Hell at least 2011). Instead it's pretty clear that it's not the case. We made the same puzzling coaching moves in another game that actually matters. This is the 5th straight year the staff makes bizarre choices. You had a chance to declare that the program wasn't just average and you did the opposite. It's not just the one loss. It's the last 5 years
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The reason no one had these feelings before the game is because we thought this season would be different. We thought it could be 2012 (or Hell at least 2011). Instead it's pretty clear that it's not the case. We made the same puzzling coaching moves in another game that actually matters. This is the 5th straight year the staff makes bizarre choices. You had a chance to declare that the program wasn't just average and you did the opposite. It's not just the one loss. It's the last 5 years
2011 is still very much in play. We had a ton of games exactly like last night and they almost all seemed to swing in our favor which is very unusual.
I think many are thinking we lost to some Iowa State level opponent and we did not. Vandy will be at least a top 50 team by the metrics this year and possibly top 25.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day. They will struggle to score all year. Luckily for them the SEC East contains zero offenses of value so they will compete in every divisional game most likely. I'm also not saying we are ISU or Texas Tech all of the sudden but we're not OU or OK St either and that's disappointing because we thought we might be.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day. They will struggle to score all year. Luckily for them the SEC East contains zero offenses of value so they will compete in every divisional game most likely. I'm also not saying we are ISU or Texas Tech all of the sudden but we're not OU or OK St either and that's disappointing because we thought we might be.
True. We might still beat one of those teams though (OU or OSU).
I'm disappointed and the offense played and coached poorly last night, but this still is or can be a very good team.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
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If you trust Gene Taylor with this hire I have pity for your mortal soul
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
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This thread :dubious:
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.
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My take is Bill's biggest strength never really was calling the plays or even developing overlooked talent but rather in identifying and hiring top-tier up and coming coaches to staff up the program. That has slipped dramatically in 2.0 as evidenced by the maintaining the nursing home in Vanier.
If nobody is attempting to poach your coaching staff, your staff probably sucks.
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My take is Bill's biggest strength never really was calling the plays or even developing overlooked talent but rather in identifying and hiring top-tier up and coming coaches to staff up the program. That has slipped dramatically in 2.0 as evidenced by the maintaining the nursing home in Vanier.
If nobody is attempting to poach your coaching staff, your staff probably sucks.
His 2.0 geriatric staff will have compiled the 3rd best conference winning percentage since his return only behind OU and OSU by the end of this year. How do you explain that given your position that he isn't good at calling plays or developing players?
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I'd say our 3 best returning assistants are the 3 oldest in Dickey, Mo & Hayes.
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My take is Bill's biggest strength never really was calling the plays or even developing overlooked talent but rather in identifying and hiring top-tier up and coming coaches to staff up the program. That has slipped dramatically in 2.0 as evidenced by the maintaining the nursing home in Vanier.
If nobody is attempting to poach your coaching staff, your staff probably sucks.
His 2.0 geriatric staff will have compiled the 3rd best conference winning percentage since his return only behind OU and OSU by the end of this year. How do you explain that given your position that he isn't good at calling plays or developing players?
Exactly.
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My take is Bill's biggest strength never really was calling the plays or even developing overlooked talent but rather in identifying and hiring top-tier up and coming coaches to staff up the program. That has slipped dramatically in 2.0 as evidenced by the maintaining the nursing home in Vanier.
If nobody is attempting to poach your coaching staff, your staff probably sucks.
His 2.0 geriatric staff will have compiled the 3rd best conference winning percentage since his return only behind OU and OSU by the end of this year. How do you explain that given your position that he isn't good at calling plays or developing players?
Exactly.
Ok I wasn't clear as well as took a cheap shot and got called on it. The nursing home comment was a bit unfair as well as misleading. There were (and are still) certainly some good coaches and I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure those are the staff he drug back with him from 1.0 for the most part. The recent additions haven't been lighting the town on fire however and it's the 'lack of adjustments' in staffing in addition to those ingame that are killing us.
My point was more along the line of in the 90's he was an absolute genius at unearthing and hiring incredibly good staffers. That has not been the case in 2.0 overall. Other than Klein, name 1 staffer that's likely to go to a head coaching job (not named Sean - and that's another part of the problem btw, the nepotism...)
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When you took the 4 seconds to make this ridiculous point, did you cut out a couple tenths of a second to consider salaries when discussing retention? I'll help you guys, our assistants are paid very very well.
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We should just hire Beatty to be our co-WR coach.
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The important thing to keep in mind is that one day we’ll all be dead and none of this will matter. Until then, jfc. I hate to be one of those “be happy with what you’ve already got” guys, but none of us is in a position to affect meaningful change. All we can do is support the team, enjoy the games, and have fun rooting for a team that isn’t complete trash. Or not. Don’t do it at all if you’re to the point that a disappointing K-State loss so disturbs your emotional well-being. Bitching is fine. It’s part of the online superfandom deal. But these histrionic posts after every pratfall and loss, are just silly.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.
Sure we might be a Top 25 team but do you see us competeting for a conference title soon? I cannot see it with the consistent baffling decisions we make. And I don't really want to settle for 8-9 wins a year.
I'll happily eat crow if the rest of the season proves me wrong but we don't appear to be in the same class as either Oklahoma school. It was by far the most disappointing loss and least encouraging game I've seen us play since Snyder came back.
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And I don't really want to settle for 8-9 wins a year.
you sound like a cornhusker fan during solich years..
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9 wins what a crap year :bawl:
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That was last years West Virginia game. Shits gonna happen, but i'll take 9 wins.
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Our offensive play calling lacks creativity and always has with Dimel here. Nothing new and we will continue to lose games we should be winning.
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Sure that sounds whiny but in the current Big 12 any average team is winning the same number of games. I just want us to still be capable of the occasional year we compete for the dr. Pepper. This was supposed to be that year but instead we're clearly in the second tier.
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I thought next year was the year?
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It's the same reason Florida fans hate McElwain or Nebraska fans wanted Pelini out. Yeah they win the games they should but they don't beat the good teams and get over the hump. 9 wins is good and I get it we're K-State but it seems like the last 5 years we blow every chance in games against legitimately good teams
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.
Please tell my how we are not a mid-level program. We've won exactly 1 Big XII Conference Championship in our history, shared another (which was also our last one and 5 years ago), have a decidedly losing bowl record (I believe it's somewhere around 8-12), won exactly 0 Big 8 Conference Championships and are one of only four other schools that can lay claim to over 600 losses.
We periodically are nationally ranked but have been ranked #1 just twice with no major bowl wins and 0 National Championships.
We are never (and if I recall correctly this includes the DoD of the '90s) ranked consistently either during a season or more importantly from the conclusion of a season and then again at the start of the next season.
Yes, we strung together an impressive run of 9+ wins seasons during the 1990's but that's almost 20 years ago and since then we've struggled to do the same or build any type of sustainable continuity. It's always up or down, have a good/great season and then seemingly start over.
I think we can do much, much better. We have the facilities, the money, the fan support and the schools administrative support. IMO, what we lack is some vision in the football program and a unwillingness to accept a certain level of mediocrity and follow through with fixing that.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.
Sure we might be a Top 25 team but do you see us competeting for a conference title soon? I cannot see it with the consistent baffling decisions we make. And I don't really want to settle for 8-9 wins a year.
I'll happily eat crow if the rest of the season proves me wrong but we don't appear to be in the same class as either Oklahoma school. It was by far the most disappointing loss and least encouraging game I've seen us play since Snyder came back.
I agree with that, but I took exception to your classification of Vandy, and by default, us as mid level. I also disagree that us being a 9 win program necessitates a coaching change. College football is full of 5-7 win programs, we aren't elite but we're clearly a top 25 program and I'm happy with that. I'll take 7-10 wins a year with a legit run happening every five years. I know people don't want to hear this now but we are still a year away from the peak for this team. The best two teams in this conference are losing the best QBs in their programs history after this season, at worst we will be returning either all 11 starters or 10 of them.
I get being frustrated with Saturday but the state of the program is in great shape.
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel. I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.
I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel. I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.
I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
Yes this accurately describes my feelings
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel. I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.
I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
My dislike for how Dimel goes about his business is well documented, but man, it's college football, everybody has to deal with what I bolded. OSU lost to Central Michigan and Baylor last year.
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I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel. I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.
I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
YES!,It's the complete dysfunction. I'm by no means qualified to hold a coordinator or head coaching position at a P5 school. I also don't think I should therefor, be able to easily tell what plays we're about to run on offense. True, we've been a solid program ever since Snyder came back, and he's won more than twice the games that he's lost. But damn watching our offense struggle to move the ball against a lesser opponent and the coaches not trying to think outside the box when we were having trouble was incredibly frustrating. This one goes right up there on my list of games where we stole defeat from the jaws of victory: 2013 NDSU, 2014 Auburn, 2015 TCU, 2016 WVU, and now 2017 Vandy.
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
I think seeing a repeat of WVU last year, poor execution, & play calling squandering an opportunity make it worse. It's not the loses that suck, it's the dysfunction leading to the losses that are driving the way people feel. I'll also openly admit Dana Dimel being arrogant & condescending the few times he's allowed to talk to the media affect my feelings.
I'll still have a lot of fun watching us win 5-to-7 conference games.
My dislike for how Dimel goes about his business is well documented, but man, it's college football, everybody has to deal with what I bolded. OSU lost to Central Michigan and Baylor last year.
I agree with that. I'm spoiled because I'm not used to seeing it except once or twice a year.
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My suggestion is to keep your current coach. The loss to Vanderbilt...VANDERBILT was an aberration.
Without him, you are terrible...TERRIBLE: or, at worst, Kansas-lite.
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We played a trash team and lost in no small part due to agifted TD to vandy and one stolen from the cats.
That said this loss is completely on the coaching staff. We should have won and seeing how poorly prepared the players - and the game plan - was it leaves no doubt where blame lies.
We lost at least 1 head scratcher a year that we had no reason to lose to and that right now is the one constant about the program. In another conference that used to be called ... what was it?
Oh yeah. Clemsoning.
If the cats finally manage to turn that corner...
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These threads always out posters under 35-40 years old. Those who think we should EXPECT 9+ wins a year, and if it's only 9, like the Nubbs under Pelini, then we need to start looking for a new coach....like Mike Riley. :ROFL:
You would think the experiment with RP would have been enough of a wakeup call to the entitled fans that love to bitch about "only" going 7-5....or losing a bowl game, not landing 5 stars or not consistently battling for the Dr Pepper.
Yeah, i'm frustrated with the Vandy game as i am with one or two games every year. But the good far out weighs the bad. Snyder isn't above being questioned about certain things (Dimel's play calling is low hanging fruit), but he's more than proven his ability to run our program and if you can't see that, you are a complete moron. He's still one of the greatest coaches of all time.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
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My post from last night actually wasn't putting Bill in the cross hairs for anything more than being too willing to retain staff that isn't doing their jobs. He was much, much better at that part (getting good coaching staff in place) in the 90's.
As far as age and entitlement goes, I was at the game that the tide turned and I was a cats fan before I was old enough to really get just how bad they were - so at the risk of assuming you are talking about me directly or indirectly, Ill say you may not want to be quite so quick to assume ages, appreciation for how far the program has came, or anything else suggesting fair weather fandom. It says more about you than about those you attempt to throw shade on.
It is in no way out unacceptable to expect constant incremental improvement and I would argue that simply accepting what we have and being thankful for it is horse crap. All those men on the staff, regardless of what their ages are and no matter the amount they are being paid are in fact, being paid to do that job. Professionals no matter their position age or station in life should be held to a standard and expected to meet or exceed that standard daily. Off days happen to everyone but then the expectation is that they learn from those off days and take steps to learn from them.
As I said in my last post and others have alluded to as well, KSU has for 2 decades now lost at least 1 game per season they had no business losing. That's coaching. Be it the strength and conditioning, position coach, coordinator ultimately that all falls under the responsibility of the head coach. And that acceptance of mediocrity and inconsistency needs to end
Besides who to hell really thinks Bill is doing it anyway - we all agree to varying levels that Sean has been taking an ever increasing role...
*edit*
Jesus phones make me look like an idiot some times. Tight end sized hands and a child's toy sized screen do not make for coherent bbsing.
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I'm all for high expectations, but sometimes you have to appreciate what you have. We are clearly the 3rd best football program in this league in the 8 years since Snyder's return. (Baylor's success is largely based on letting a program run with no checks IMO)
The numbers below (from the 09-16 seasons) give a great perspective about what we have. I'd love to consistently win Big 12 titles and compete for National Titles, but what we have is pretty damn good.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FK-State-Big-12.png&hash=c86576683dc5ee184689cd9b216f0efe9f6d379b)
I dont understand the sorting on your first chart.
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Somehow Baylor and K-State got flipped for the total games %.
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What is often overlooked is the difficulty of identifying and hiring a coach who is better than what you currently have. University's with blue blood history and virtually unlimited resources like Texas and Nebraska have struggled mightily to find a coach that can even approach mediocrity let alone exceed it. To assume that replacing a proven winner (albeit one that "only" competes for conference championships every 5-7 years) is easy, or even probable at KSU, should ask some other programs that had the same mindset. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to hire a great coach when Bill retires, but i'm anticipating rough waters and won't be at all surprised if we whiff a handful of times before (hopefully) finding someone who can approach even remotely the success that Bill has had.
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Thats fair and I agree. What I would ask, however, is that some attempt be made prior to him walking into the sunset to find a staff that isnt going to walk off with him or worse. Or, at least a few more. Key positions are going to walk when he does and we al know it. And whats wrong with holding people accountable and. Ot allowing them to continue to drop games like this every. Single. Time. We have a team that is capable of greatness?
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A lot of these assistants are only staying in coaching because of Bill. Miller couldn't hang on anymore, but Hayes and Mo for sure are just waiting for him to retire so they can too. It will be interesting to see what happens with Dickey.
Plus, I am not surprised at all that the only younger coaches willing to work for Bill are his former players. He simply wasn't going to attract some young hot shot coach at his age and with his expectations for work ethic. It's also why some of his younger former players left (Joe Bob, Michael Smith).
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8/9 win season on the reg I will always take. Was super frustrated though at the game Saturday and I am very tired of losing road games I attend, so I will stop doing that.
That being said, the longer I get away from the game, the more this feels like Auburn 2014. We definitely did more to lose this game ourself than Vandy did to us, which is kind of a weird spot in that Vandy essentially out Snyderball'd us.
I think we'll have a fine season take the L's v OSU and OU, and maybe another, get into a decent bowl, pull that out, and as MiR said enjoy the fact that both OSU and OU will probably have bigger problems than we will come next year. The ceiling is high, even if it might take another year.
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I'm not saying Vandy sucks but they are a mid-level Big 12 team on their best day.
Then so are we
Which is why there needs to be a change, because we should not be a mid level program. There are plenty of things that need to change after last night, but coaching happens to be one of them.
Neither Vandy or K-State are mid level programs, goodness gracious. K-State is a top 25 program and Vandy, under Mason, seems to be headed there.
Please tell my how we are not a mid-level program. We've won exactly 1 Big XII Conference Championship in our history, shared another (which was also our last one and 5 years ago), have a decidedly losing bowl record (I believe it's somewhere around 8-12), won exactly 0 Big 8 Conference Championships and are one of only four other schools that can lay claim to over 600 losses.
We periodically are nationally ranked but have been ranked #1 just twice with no major bowl wins and 0 National Championships.
We are never (and if I recall correctly this includes the DoD of the '90s) ranked consistently either during a season or more importantly from the conclusion of a season and then again at the start of the next season.
Yes, we strung together an impressive run of 9+ wins seasons during the 1990's but that's almost 20 years ago and since then we've struggled to do the same or build any type of sustainable continuity. It's always up or down, have a good/great season and then seemingly start over.
I think we can do much, much better. We have the facilities, the money, the fan support and the schools administrative support. IMO, what we lack is some vision in the football program and a unwillingness to accept a certain level of mediocrity and follow through with fixing that.
Cats! :ksu:
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i just don't even see what the point is of this thread or what's being argued. bill is here. he's done great things. he's done not so great things. we are so firmly entrenched now and have been arguing the same "the game has passed bill by and we suck, the staff sucks, and all should retire" after every loss since like 2009, that it's like :dunno:.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
...And we just used it to score 7 rough ridin' points. Against Vanderbilt.
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i just don't even see what the point is of this thread or what's being argued. bill is here. he's done great things. he's done not so great things. we are so firmly entrenched now and have been arguing the same "the game has passed bill by and we suck, the staff sucks, and all should retire" after every loss since like 2009, that it's like :dunno:.
Funny seeing :dunno: and wazzu whatever girl side by side.
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This conversation got me thinking. I am now very curious how many programs ran off a "mediocre" coach only to hire a worse one. "Ran off" is very subjective as it's never truly known when someone "retires" or takes another job whether it was voluntary or they were forced out. "Mediocre" also subjective but could be defined as .500 or better overall record. Football programs at Nebraska, Texas and Missouri come immediately to mind. Maybe a better question: has any program ever hired a BETTER coach immediately after running off a mediocre one? I'm sure they have just can't think of any.
Edit: It should be noted that Mack, Pelini and Pinkel were not "mediocre" coaches (maybe Pelini was) but each fan base was thrilled to see them go.
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i'm lost on the Missouri mention
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Florida State got an NC with Jimbo.
Tommy Bowden was 72-34 when Clemson ran him off for Dabo.
Paul Hackett was .514 at USC after 3 years struggling at USC for Pete Carroll. Hackett was trending down though while trying to restart the program after a couple .500 season of Robinson 2.0.
A&M running off RC Slocum after going 6-6 to hire the definition of mediocrity in Franchione is the best example I can think of what you're trying to get at.
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am I the only one that in my head is saying "It's Vader Time!"
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The best comparison to where we are at now is Bowden at Florida State and deciding how long you wait for a legend to retire. However, the expectation level at FSU was much higher (14 straights seasons finishing in the top 5 with two NCs at one point) and the last 5 years of Bowden were worse than Snyder's last 5 seasons.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
...And we just used it to score 7 rough ridin' points. Against Vanderbilt.
Boo hoo. It's been three days, stop feeling sorry for yourself.
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The best comparison to where we are at now is Bowden at Florida State and deciding how long you wait for a legend to retire. However, the expectation level at FSU was much higher (14 straights seasons finishing in the top 5 with two NCs at one point) and the last 5 years of Bowden were worse than Snyder's last 5 seasons.
jeez :sdeek:
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Yeah, peak Bowden was ridiculous; 1987 through 2000.
Then he had 1 borderline Top 10 team his last 9 seasons and 3 of the last 4 FSU finished 7-6 and unranked.
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I caught parts of Snyder's weekly show on Fox Sports. It did not inspire confidence. I know it takes time to bounce back from what he went through, but he has not bounced back and at his age isn't going to fully recover. I don't know how much he had to give to this team this year.
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hmmmmm
https://twitter.com/DScottFritchen/status/910188760335347712
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
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i'm lost on the Missouri mention
The powers that be wanted Pinkel gone, but it wasn't because of his W/L record....that wasn't a good comparo but it did get me thinking about all the successful coaches who were run off for various reasons....Mangino, Leavitt, Leach, Briles, Petrino. Replacing a coach is hard. FSU definitely is the gold standard and would be my wildest dream when it's time.
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Snyder say anything relevant in his phone press conference today?
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Snyder say anything relevant in his phone press conference today?
He was enjoying his Boulevard tour from what I understand.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F645%2F763%2F6c1.gif&hash=d73c96cc101812f75e92a07ec7dc78f5b1b7a570)
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that gif gets me everytime.. every freaking time
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that gif gets me everytime.. every freaking time
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2Fejtssm.gif&hash=bd24b2484b65e0ca3b9dbb956ee5f64546568b5e)
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F645%2F763%2F6c1.gif&hash=d73c96cc101812f75e92a07ec7dc78f5b1b7a570)
Your day must have been more interesting than mine.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F645%2F763%2F6c1.gif&hash=d73c96cc101812f75e92a07ec7dc78f5b1b7a570)
It only took 2 days to identify the pivot man on this circle jerk website. MakeItRain. Perfect name.
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This thread is ridiculous. Our program is v. healthy. We lost to a decent team on the road by a score. That happens - even to good/great programs.
Nobody called for Gundy's head after losing to CMU last year. Nobody called for Urban's head after tOSU lost to VT at home a few years ago. These games happen. Quit crying.
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lololololol @ the Urban comparison. Part of the reason nobody's calling for those heads, btw, is the coaching staffs on those teams aren't nursing homes
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Go knockout a few renocat posts and you will feel right as rain.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F645%2F763%2F6c1.gif&hash=d73c96cc101812f75e92a07ec7dc78f5b1b7a570)
It only took 2 days to identify the pivot man on this circle jerk website. MakeItRain. Perfect name.
(https://m.popkey.co/900714/bgMyK.gif)
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oh, jesus eff, just hire sean.
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We return basically every player next year, except Ertz, so be positive
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lololololol @ the Urban comparison. Part of the reason nobody's calling for those heads, btw, is the coaching staffs on those teams aren't nursing homes
The three day meltdown is a little melodramatic. Boo-hoo, we lost a game we should've won. Let's fire/force-out our hall of fame head coach!
Bottom line is, Snyder is going out on his terms whether any of us like it or not. We can either grumble and scream at nobody who's listening calling for his head, or sit back and enjoy the twilight of Snyder's career for better or worse. The choice is obvious for any true cat fan <--- not gE'ing btw.
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The good news for you guys is we've got a bye this week, so the meltdown will last two weeks. Minimum. Still kinda melting down about the epic TCU collapse of a few years ago.
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Bottom line is, Snyder is going out on his terms whether any of us like it or not. We can either grumble and scream at nobody who's listening calling for his head, or sit back and enjoy the twilight of Snyder's career for better or worse. The choice is obvious for any true cat fan <--- not gE'ing btw.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/gOkawaguYNiSI/200.gif)
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This site has now replaced gpc as the 'don't ever question LHC Bill Snyder' message board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This site has now replaced gpc as the 'don't ever question LHC Bill Snyder' message board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And don't you forget it.
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we won our previous 6 games before Saturday, if we keep playing like we did in Nashville then yeah bitch about it, but some of you act like this has been going on for years. this team will get better, which you'd know is most usually the case under Snyder teams, unless you just started watching K-State football 4 days ago.
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This site has now replaced gpc as the 'don't ever question LHC Bill Snyder' message board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, there's truth to it, so yeah. It's an educated and sane take, unlike "Off with his head!" after one lil stumble.
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This site has now replaced gpc as the 'don't ever question LHC Bill Snyder' message board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, there's truth to it, so yeah. It's an educated and sane take, unlike "Off with his head!" after one lil stumble.
It's ok to criticize him. LHC Bill Snyder will never win a national championship. He isn't winning another conference championship. Will we make a conference championship appearance under Snyder? Probably not.
The thought that 'he built it, he can do what he wants' is absurd and always has been.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He built he can do what he wants. to a certain extent. off with okcats head
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Things that okcat mentioned above would have never happened here without Snyder and we would never have been able to set these expectations without him either. Pretty much a double edged sword. I don't gaf if i'm a tuck in this category. Also, the notion he won't win another Big 12 title is pretty silly, since we haven't lost a conference game yet.
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the idea that we lost one game on the road to a P5 team by one score when when couldn't do anything on offense, had uncharacteristic turnovers, and had 2 TD's called back and now it's burn it down mode is so rough ridin' dumb and a pretty bad look for people still melting down 4 days later about it.
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the idea that we lost one game on the road to a P5 team by one score when when couldn't do anything on offense, had uncharacteristic turnovers, and had 2 TD's called back and now it's burn it down mode is so rough ridin' dumb and a pretty bad look for people still melting down 4 days later about it.
This guy gets it!
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(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/522a2049e4b0a0ce717e990c/5873b33fd482e9b4a8e810fa/5873b33f6a49630b7b36469f/1483977558096/Vader+Bomb+to+Razor+Ramon.gif)
get ok cat a body bag.
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It's time we get okcat a picture with some Vandy cheerleaders to cheer him up
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We get beat by a combined 110-14 to the Oklahoma schools this season. But we're cool with that because he won the conference in 2003
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We get beat by a combined 110-14 to the Oklahoma schools this season. But we're cool with that because he won the conference in 2003
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're losing it, man.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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35-7 man :ksu:
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Weirdly positive posts from m^2 ITT.
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I'm with ok cat, championship coaches are mind numbingly easy to find so we should kick snyder into the pit from 300
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What we have here is a good ole fashioned "what are the best type of fan expectations" off.
(https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/2014/03/john-lucas-3.gif)
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What a meltdown by ok cat. Sad. :frown:
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The way I see it, there are two kinds of losers in this world. There are ISU fans and there are KU fans. ISU fans stay positive and are grateful for what they have because they know it can be much worse. KU fans ignore all past evidence and believe they are always just 1 or 2 adjustments (e.g., a Snyder demise) away from competing for a conference championship.
I tend to fall more on the ISU side. Of course, however you choose to handle a loss, you're still a loser. And that hurts. :frown:
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there are way more than 2 kinds of losers
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We get beat by a combined 110-14 to the Oklahoma schools this season. But we're cool with that because he won the conference in 2003
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was thinking we'd score 21 against OSU. 14 is so pessimistic.
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As I've gotten older I've gotten way better at handling losses. I turned the game immediately and stayed out of the football threads until about Monday until I could refocus. It still hurts like a mother after a loss, but i'm getting better at numbing it. Drinking bleach really helps the process too. This is pretty much me these days.
(https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/alonzo-mourning-heat-upset-then-realization.gif)
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We get beat by a combined 110-14 to the Oklahoma schools this season. But we're cool with that because he won the conference in 2003
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was thinking we'd score 21 against OSU. 14 is so pessimistic.
yeah because we always get torched by OSU, always
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A lot of Betas outing themselves in here. :frown:
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I'm far less concerned now about what KSU does under Snyder because at minimum there will almost always be a baseline of competence that will keep the program from falling into complete disarray. I'd rather focus immediately on cleaning up the shitshow that is bruceketball and see EMAW hoops restored to its former glory.
That said, if Venzy calls us and says he's ready to jump and we'd better offer or he's going to Texas Tech, I'm ok with doing this to Bill as quickly and smoothly as possible
(https://i.imgur.com/4bUV7Ls.gif)
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If Venzy was in the mix I could give nary a eff about the smoothly part.
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If Venzy was in the mix I could give nary a eff about the smoothly part.
Yeah, that's fair.
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It doesn't matter what anyone wants, Snyder literally has his boys in the UP office and the AD. I guess knock yourself out with debate about theoretical scenarios replacing him but he is on his own timeline.
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I should probably clarify that I'm not exactly calling for Snyders head. Replacing a very successful coach with another one is really hard even at Texas. That being said it's absurdly frustrating when it seems 2-3 times a year we get out coached and it's not because the other coaches did something creative. Against Vanderbilt I could correctly indentify run vs pass or even what run play about 50% of the time. There are no-brainer moves that seemingly would have provided offense. And it's not just always the offense doing this. It gets old missing out on a couple wins because of pure stupidity. I know we're not the only program that loses a game or two like that a year, but when its that obvious to everyone in the stadium someone on the coaching staff should be noticing too.
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It doesn't matter what anyone wants, Snyder literally has his boys in the UP office and the AD. I guess knock yourself out with debate about theoretical scenarios replacing him but he is on his own timeline.
Yeah. It's another reason I'm less emotionally invested in raising a ruckus after losses like these because our opinions don't matter in the least. At least with Bruceketball there's a chance the AD doesn't have the blind loyalty to him that Currie did.
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The upper echelon of mediocrity is really all we can expect as k-staters. I would like to hear how we plan to deal with the 80 year old dude making recruiting visits and the "Are you going to live til Im a SR?" argument.
Probably the same way he's dealt with it since 2009. He didn't get old yesterday. What the hell is your point? We're getting more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years.
"more talent now than we've had in the last 15 years." Hilarious. Where are these best in 15 year talents? I want some of what you're smoking. What impact are these top talents having? It's the same ol Snyder song and dance only the song sucks and the tempo is 1/2 of what it was. THe song has always gone sorta like this... (1) Coach em up. (2) Pluck the juco retards and hope for the best [e.g keep them out of jail and enrolled] and (3) play crappy non con schedule and hope to win.
I usually dont argue with this philosophy because there has never been a season since 1992 (or ever) where if we didnt win our games we wouldn't be natl champs. Right now we're not seeing any of the three with any level of success.
To pile on further, the Big XII is in dire straits and the competition in the last 2-3 years has been lower than ever. If the BIG XII would have stayed healthy over the past several years, this Snyder conversation would be WAY past due by now and Snyder is likely home sipping Ensure and yelling for a pants change.
Snyder's song is old and the only reason to keep him around is sentimentality. Great guy, awesome success story -- but, sentimentality does not win football games and certainly doesnt win championships.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F645%2F763%2F6c1.gif&hash=d73c96cc101812f75e92a07ec7dc78f5b1b7a570)
It only took 2 days to identify the pivot man on this circle jerk website. MakeItRain. Perfect name.
You new round here boy?
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Someone go ahead and get Greg a body bag.
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I should probably clarify that I'm not exactly calling for Snyders head. Replacing a very successful coach with another one is really hard even at Texas. That being said it's absurdly frustrating when it seems 2-3 times a year we get out coached and it's not because the other coaches did something creative. Against Vanderbilt I could correctly indentify run vs pass or even what run play about 50% of the time. There are no-brainer moves that seemingly would have provided offense. And it's not just always the offense doing this. It gets old missing out on a couple wins because of pure stupidity. I know we're not the only program that loses a game or two like that a year, but when its that obvious to everyone in the stadium someone on the coaching staff should be noticing too.
This is not an excuse for the lack of creativity, shall we say, in the play calling department in Nashville, but have any of you considered that you have watched A LOT of KSU football and this is why plays can be so predictable to you? To an extent, Snyder has an approach that has worked well over his career and he's going to that well again guys. Saturday was disappointing, but I did not leave thinking we've got no shot at the conference title game.
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I'm in the camp of not being too worried after a loss, this sucked, but we will still get our 8 or 9 wins and have a spot on the college football map. The AD and Pres are not going to do much but rubber stamp the next coach and we know it will be Sean, which might be fun in a few different ways. The best chance at super awesomeness in sports will be when the impartial and non hands tied AD gets to select a new hoops coach. We got some decent talent, none good enough to go to the NBA a year early, so a good coach coming in with fire (the anti Oscar style) for 2018-19 will have a good start.
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I'm in the camp of still being mad as heck because goals 11 and 13.
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I should probably clarify that I'm not exactly calling for Snyders head. Replacing a very successful coach with another one is really hard even at Texas. That being said it's absurdly frustrating when it seems 2-3 times a year we get out coached and it's not because the other coaches did something creative. Against Vanderbilt I could correctly indentify run vs pass or even what run play about 50% of the time. There are no-brainer moves that seemingly would have provided offense. And it's not just always the offense doing this. It gets old missing out on a couple wins because of pure stupidity. I know we're not the only program that loses a game or two like that a year, but when its that obvious to everyone in the stadium someone on the coaching staff should be noticing too.
This is not an excuse for the lack of creativity, shall we say, in the play calling department in Nashville, but have any of you considered that you have watched A LOT of KSU football and this is why plays can be so predictable to you? To an extent, Snyder has an approach that has worked well over his career and he's going to that well again guys. Saturday was disappointing, but I did not leave thinking we've got no shot at the conference title game.
Yeah we’ve all watched a ton of Cat football but the other teams have watched our tape from the past 5 years too