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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: Bookcat on January 16, 2017, 08:50:24 PM
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it took awhile but he cleaned house and they will be dancing....
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Would love to play them in the first round when we sneak in as an 11 seed.
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Florida and Kentucky this week.
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:bwpopcorn:
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I took him longer than I thought, but he chose a tough program. Good for Frank, I'll always look back fondly on his time here. I really appreciated the toughness and effort his teams consistently played with.
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Where is that fulcrum post? I'd like to read that again.
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What a sap.
It has come.
Now I realize this is really no surprise to most posters here. Even the most optimistic toward oscar knew this time would come, some thought much sooner and some much later. Some made it a point to make comparisons and some ignored it. But for all of us "it" has always been there; comparing how oscar is doing at K-State and how Frank is doing building his own program from scratch.
Its safe to say that fulcrum has clearly shifted enough for the balance to swing; the better program now resides in Columbia, SC and not Manhattan, KS. One team sits outside the top 100 in kenpom and one sits in the top 30. One has won 7 straight games, including 2 wins over Big 12 teams. One has lost 3 straight, and looks like it will struggle to win 2 games in the Big 12. One has a pair of sophomores leading the program and turning into the best players in their league. The other has promising sophomores underachieving, struggling, and maybe even looking for a new place to play.
Frank's residue of toughness was real and its carryover had enormous benefits for oscar, one that he rode all the way to a league title (shared, but still). Since then the highlights have been sparse with a few nice wins over Gonzaga, Kansas, and Iowa State in the past year, but no NCAA tournament wins and then the disaster that has become this year's team. In four of the last seven games we've seen K-State teams fail to score 20 points in a half. We now see a K-State team at .500 at the latest point in a season since February of 2004. We see a K-State defense allowing a worse eFG% than any K-State team since kenpom started his rating system in 2002.
I once wrote stuff like this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786) and this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1810) that highlighted some of the strengths of Frank Martin's teams. I won't deny that Martin recruited well for Kansas State, but let's not forget that not a single player from his tenure is currently playing NBA basketball. No doubt Martin had good players, but he built this program on toughness and effort; controlling things like offensive boards and getting to the free throw line while playing tenacious defense. His players bought in and things like effort and toughness were things you saw consistently from K-State basketball teams.
Even this year, K-State still does some things well under Weber. We rebound decent (both sides), we shoot threes, surprisingly this year's team gets to the FT line a bunch, and we force TOs at a high rate . However, the eFG% stat (allowing 51.6%) highlights a huge problem that we now see with this team. Despite turning it over a bit, opponents find it far too easy to run offense and get good shots (both 2s and 3s) against K-State. As long as you allow teams to get comfortable and shoot at that rate you aren't going to be very good because shooting is obviously the most important factor for offensive success. Despite having K-State's best shooting team (51.9%) in the kenpom era and a FT rate of over 50%, the Cats turn it over on over 1/5 of their possessions leading to often ugly and mediocre offense.
Meanwhile Frank's team is allowing teams to shoot only 39.9% and he has one of the Top 10 efficiency defenses in the country while continuing to oboard in typical junkyard dog fashion. Frank's tough brand of basketball is clearly in place with a core of young players and it looks like South Carolina will be a competitive basketball program for years to come. Weber's brand looks to be firmly in place as well, where inconsistency is the only thing that's consistent while the coach rarely takes ownership for the problems while squeaking his way through vague explanations.
For K-State basketball a long season awaits, likely the first below .500 finish in over a decade and the end of an 8 year streak of postseason basketball. The sad transition that most expected is finally here.
Its a sad day for K-State basketball.
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sometimes things just sit there atop the fulcrum, balancing for a good long bit, before they swing.
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sometimes things just sit there atop the fulcrum, balancing for a good long bit, before they swing.
True.
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I'd be very cool with a USCe vs KSU matchup in the tourney.
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He needs really good defensive bigs it took him along time. Funny part there bigs are young. His guard play has been so disappointing. Offensive he is kinda of a mess now. Defense is elite tho.
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I won't deny that Martin recruited well for Kansas State, but let's not forget that not a single player from his tenure is currently playing NBA basketball.
Beasley and McGruder now!
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I won't deny that Martin recruited well for Kansas State, but let's not forget that not a single player from his tenure is currently playing NBA basketball.
Beasley and McGruder now!
Yes. Its weird that neither was playing at the time I wrote that 2 years ago.
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29 South Carolina SEC 14-3 +18.15 104.1 160 86.0 1 68.8 204 +.027 126 +4.66 41 106.4 43 101.8 60 +2.28 100
30 Kansas St. B12 13-4 +17.93 114.3 31 96.4 54 66.2 307 -.106 336 -1.38 221 101.1 307 102.5 90 -7.60 340
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29 South Carolina SEC 14-3 +18.15 104.1 160 86.0 1 68.8 204 +.027 126 +4.66 41 106.4 43 101.8 60 +2.28 100
30 Kansas St. B12 13-4 +17.93 114.3 31 96.4 54 66.2 307 -.106 336 -1.38 221 101.1 307 102.5 90 -7.60 340
Close!
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkingelectronics.com%2Fprojects%2FLinearActuator%2Fimages%2FClass1-Anim.gif&hash=e74b424459868a5f887a1012203b212146c4f8d6)
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residue of toughness!
Was in Fran that first used this phrase?
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residue of toughness!
Was in Fran that first used this phrase?
IIRC, yes.
I love Fran.
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residue of toughness!
Was in Fran that first used this phrase?
IIRC, yes.
I love Fran.
Remember when Virginia Tech played in the OOD to start the 2010-11 season (ESPN's 24 hrs of hoops or something like that)? Brent and Bobby were there, IIRC and Bobby was talking about how Virginia Tech would face a lot of tough teams that season but they wouldn't face one tougher that the KSU Cats. If felt good to be a fan of something that was noted for toughness.
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Isn't there a life at stake in all of this?
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29 South Carolina SEC 14-3 +18.15 104.1 160 86.0 1 68.8 204 +.027 126 +4.66 41 106.4 43 101.8 60 +2.28 100
30 Kansas St. B12 13-4 +17.93 114.3 31 96.4 54 66.2 307 -.106 336 -1.38 221 101.1 307 102.5 90 -7.60 340
looking at both teams' schedule this week and early next.... looks like both are about to take a nosedive. Will our dive be harder than theirs? 8 ball says yes.
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UK is going to destroy USCe
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Yes, I actually need to see a Frank team actually make Kentucky break a sweat before I dub USCe turned around. USCe faltered mightily at crunch time last year.
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number of south carolina games that bookcat has watched this season? my guess: 0
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UK is going to destroy USCe
UK struggled against miss st last night. not saying you are wrong but i could be saying you are wrong
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UK is going to destroy USCe
UK struggled against miss st last night. not saying you are wrong but i could be saying you are wrong
I watched the game, through blue colored glasses, I didn't really think they struggled. I think the referees destroyed the game with their constant whistles. If a game is called that way, it's going to be ugly. UK won, on the road, I'll take it. It'll be a lot different in front of 23.5k at Rupp this Saturday.
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29 South Carolina SEC 14-3 +18.15 104.1 160 86.0 1 68.8 204 +.027 126 +4.66 41 106.4 43 101.8 60 +2.28 100
30 Kansas St. B12 13-4 +17.93 114.3 31 96.4 54 66.2 307 -.106 336 -1.38 221 101.1 307 102.5 90 -7.60 340
looking at both teams' schedule this week and early next.... looks like both are about to take a nosedive. Will our dive be harder than theirs? 8 ball says yes.
Where are we at on this? If both lose, is our nose dive harder?
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@UK and @Florida look like the only possible two loses on Frank's pre-SEC tornament schedule. The may drop one or two more as Frank's team will do, but he'll steal one on the road, too. Maybe Saturday.
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Beating a pretty good Florida team last night, could prove to be big
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Meh frank will drop a few games to teams he shouldn't.
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And win some it shouldn't. SC could very well be undefeated right now if Thornwell hadn't be suspended.
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ok so here's the thing, every coach is going to win/lose some that they shouldn't and k-state football could very well be undefeated if the ball bounces our way a couple of times
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But it's Frank. I'll never forget Clemente's SR night for example.
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But it's Frank. I'll never forget Clemente's SR night for example.
scott christopherson! :shakesfist:
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http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/look-south-carolinas-frank-martin-destroyed-a-twitter-user-for-trolling/
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http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/look-south-carolinas-frank-martin-destroyed-a-twitter-user-for-trolling/
that's great. i'm lucky he never did that to me when i was mean to him on twitter.
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But it's Frank. I'll never forget Clemente's SR night for example.
scott christopherson! :shakesfist:
That loss still pains me.
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HEY LOOK I WAS RIGHT ABOUT THIS TOO!!!!
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HEY LOOK I WAS RIGHT ABOUT THIS TOO!!!!
Congrats on being right about realizing frank is a good coach. Certainly a rare take around here.