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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: GregKSU1027 on December 07, 2016, 02:13:48 PM

Title: oscar is...
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 07, 2016, 02:13:48 PM
What is oscar? To many a villian,  to some a hero. To me oscar is confused but confident that he is on his way up. This team is a tournament team but there will be some bumps. If we do enough in the big 12 we will be better seeded than his last run.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on December 07, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
Everything alright, Greg?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: _33 on December 07, 2016, 02:25:12 PM
"run"?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: pissclams on December 07, 2016, 02:26:24 PM
What is oscar? To many a villian,  to some a hero.

now this is a bbs post right here.  kudos greg, glad you're learning something at ksu cats u and i'm sure this quote will be nominated for a cassy.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 07, 2016, 02:56:54 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ELL3 on December 07, 2016, 06:57:02 PM
A hero to those 5 diehards on that K-Statefans.com thing
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: renocat on December 07, 2016, 08:16:57 PM
Fun loving, weiner.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: pvegs on December 07, 2016, 08:23:36 PM
"run"?

truly, when was oscar's last "run"? Given that I feel a "run" starts at around the Sweet 16, it seems oscar's last foray into the realm of ncaa runs was 2005. A mere 12 years ago.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: wetwillie on December 07, 2016, 08:24:17 PM
Oscar is #notmycoach
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: scottwildcat on December 09, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Oscar is #notmycoach

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: CNS on December 09, 2016, 08:43:04 PM
These things always backfire, you guys
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Bookcat on December 10, 2016, 09:37:43 AM
A Woolridge look alike that followed up Frank Martin instead of Tom 'fake tan' Asbury...

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Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: renocat on December 10, 2016, 09:50:22 AM
9-1. 
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: dal9 on December 10, 2016, 10:10:56 AM
like sex to a nympho, but nothin sweet
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 10, 2016, 01:05:23 PM
Awkward and weird. Not a great coach, but probably better than most of our fans give him credit for.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: CNS on December 10, 2016, 01:22:45 PM
I could be on board if he was self aware and planned around his weaknesses, as good coaches and leaders should.  I mean, that's 101 stuff.  Go get a recruiter, give him more rope than your AD is completely comfy with.  Go get a guy that develop whatever position is your weakness and back off that guy almost completely.   Also, if you suck at in the moment planing, go get a guy like that. 
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: wetwillie on December 10, 2016, 02:26:11 PM
I could be on board if he was self aware and planned around his weaknesses, as good coaches and leaders should.  I mean, that's 101 stuff.  Go get a recruiter, give him more rope than your AD is completely comfy with.  Go get a guy that develop whatever position is your weakness and back off that guy almost completely.   Also, if you suck at in the moment planing, go get a guy like that. 

If you suck at that many things it might be a sign you aren't fit to lead.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: star seed 7 on December 10, 2016, 02:26:21 PM
I could be on board if he was self aware and planned around his weaknesses, as good coaches and leaders should.  I mean, that's 101 stuff.  Go get a recruiter, give him more rope than your AD is completely comfy with.  Go get a guy that develop whatever position is your weakness and back off that guy almost completely.   Also, if you suck at in the moment planing, go get a guy like that.

what if you're bad at everything except throwing your own players under the bus?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 10, 2016, 03:34:01 PM
I can't disagree with much of that.

However, there are lots of coaches that seem like they should be better. Like Miles at Nebraska for example; he seems to recruit alright, seems likable, fun follow on twitter. However, he has 2 tournaments in 12 years of coaching and he looks to be on his way to getting fired. oscar has 10 in 18 seasons. Granted, that's not great and if he doesn't make it this year he should be fired, but his overall record as a HC is far from terrible. When I think terrible records, I go to Jim Woolridge as the prime example. Tom Asbury is close. That guy at Boston College that used to be at TCU. Even despite some past success, WSU's Ernie Kent who we play tonight has been absolutely awful that last 5 years.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: EMAWzifried on December 10, 2016, 09:10:39 PM
He just seems like a career assistant coach. Everybody, not least his players, can see he lacks weight.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Ptolemy on December 11, 2016, 12:36:51 AM
I can't disagree with much of that.

However, there are lots of coaches that seem like they should be better. Like Miles at Nebraska for example; he seems to recruit alright, seems likable, fun follow on twitter. However, he has 2 tournaments in 12 years of coaching and he looks to be on his way to getting fired. oscar has 10 in 18 seasons. Granted, that's not great and if he doesn't make it this year he should be fired, but his overall record as a HC is far from terrible. When I think terrible records, I go to Jim Woolridge as the prime example. Tom Asbury is close. That guy at Boston College that used to be at TCU. Even despite some past success, WSU's Ernie Kent who we play tonight has been absolutely awful that last 5 years.

This...

" if he doesn't make it this year he should be fired,"

Why? What about year 5, when you were not in a re-build when you were hired, makes it THE year? Why not in year 2, 3, or 4?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on December 11, 2016, 12:52:26 AM
I can't disagree with much of that.

However, there are lots of coaches that seem like they should be better. Like Miles at Nebraska for example; he seems to recruit alright, seems likable, fun follow on twitter. However, he has 2 tournaments in 12 years of coaching and he looks to be on his way to getting fired. oscar has 10 in 18 seasons. Granted, that's not great and if he doesn't make it this year he should be fired, but his overall record as a HC is far from terrible. When I think terrible records, I go to Jim Woolridge as the prime example. Tom Asbury is close. That guy at Boston College that used to be at TCU. Even despite some past success, WSU's Ernie Kent who we play tonight has been absolutely awful that last 5 years.

I don't think most KSU fans grasp how hard it is going to be to hire a better coach than oscar. Specially how we are running our athletic program.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on December 11, 2016, 01:04:59 AM
Firing oscar would be putting a kroger brand band-aid on the real problem.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on December 11, 2016, 03:46:42 AM
it would be very stupid to fire weber this year.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Bookcat on December 11, 2016, 11:18:13 AM
The first 6 conference games this year are going to be an interesting test for our youngsters

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: wetwillie on December 11, 2016, 11:21:40 AM
it would be very stupid to fire weber this year.

YES!
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Bookcat on December 11, 2016, 11:25:44 AM
He won't get fired because we'll at least get an NIT bid and the apologists will say it's proof of progress

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2016, 11:40:53 AM
https://twitter.com/_iwundu25/status/808000804070232064
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Skipper44 on December 11, 2016, 02:53:48 PM
it would be very stupid to fire weber this year.
it would answer the question of "Does Currie hate Kstate basketball fans?" with complete finality
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on December 11, 2016, 03:08:11 PM
There is the possibility that oscar has his highest end of season Kenpom rating, doesn't make the tournament and gets fired.

I don't think any human can process that.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on December 11, 2016, 03:22:45 PM
There is the possibility that oscar has his highest end of season Kenpom rating, doesn't make the tournament and gets fired.

even though it would be stupid for kstate to fire him, if you're any kind of fan at all you have to root for this to happen.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: michigancat on December 11, 2016, 03:46:42 PM
https://twitter.com/_iwundu25/status/808000804070232064
Kamaiyah! :love:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on December 11, 2016, 03:57:12 PM
There is the possibility that oscar has his highest end of season Kenpom rating, doesn't make the tournament and gets fired.

even though it would be stupid for kstate to fire him, if you're any kind of fan at all you have to root for this to happen.

1) Take Brad whenever we can get him. I think that is the only hope while we have Currie.
2) Stick with oscar until Currie is gone. Unless he drops below 50th in kenpom.

I think that is the only reasonable train of thought. Confusing time for Cat fans.  :dunno: :dunno:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: jasn88cubs on December 11, 2016, 04:17:03 PM
oscar is causing his biggest fan to get ripped on

--Watch out for Istilllikeharv he is a Weber Fan First (WFF)

 
He doesnt care about kansas st. He will just follow Weber to wherever he goes after he gets ***********. He's more worried abotu Weber's success then he is of Kansas St

 

He use to post on the Illini board all the time now he never does. Why? Because Brucie couldn't cut the cake at Illini land.

 

Now I'm not saying Johnny Groce is better because he isn't but for you wild car fans who actually think Harv cares about Kansas ST well my friends you are sadly mistaken brothers

 

If it wasn't for the Kansas St a.d. oscar weber would be in a dark room watching film at some lowly mid major college and if it wasn't for the Kansas St a.d. Harv would still be on the Illini board making excuses for Weber


http://www.scout.com/college/kansas-state/forums/2671-men-s-hoops/15233176-watch-out-for-istilllikeharv
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: dal9 on December 11, 2016, 04:27:44 PM
like iron mike, messiah-type
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: BrokenSky1113 on December 11, 2016, 10:31:04 PM
Awkward and weird. Not a great coach, but probably better than most of our fans give him credit for.

He seems fairly consistent with finding talent from lower rated recruits. Players also seem to develop well in the program. But some of the in-game coaching decisions are really bad.

Beyond being weird, he is unbelievably uninspiring.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on December 11, 2016, 10:51:55 PM
Awkward and weird. Not a great coach, but probably better than most of our fans give him credit for.

He seems fairly consistent with finding talent from lower rated recruits. Players also seem to develop well in the program. But some of the in-game coaching decisions are really bad.

Beyond being weird, he is unbelievably uninspiring.

Doesn't recruit well enough to build depth. Not great with identifying and landing points guards. He is in game is pretty effing good.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ELL3 on December 11, 2016, 11:09:42 PM
The first 6 conference games this year are going to be an interesting test for our youngsters

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I agree Bill, gotta keep sawing wood and getting a little better each and every day
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 11, 2016, 11:54:20 PM
I don't think most KSU fans grasp how hard it is going to be to hire a better coach than oscar. Specially how we are running our athletic program.

 :ROFL: we're 7th in the Big 12 in wins since oscar got here and numbers 6, 8, 9, and 10 have all fired a bad coach and replaced that coach with a better one.

Firing oscar would be putting a kroger brand band-aid on the real problem.

Tell me when the athletic department was in better shape.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on December 12, 2016, 12:28:27 AM
I don't think most KSU fans grasp how hard it is going to be to hire a better coach than oscar. Specially how we are running our athletic program.

 :ROFL: we're 7th in the Big 12 in wins since oscar got here and numbers 6, 8, 9, and 10 have all fired a bad coach and replaced that coach with a better one.

Firing oscar would be putting a kroger brand band-aid on the real problem.

Tell me when the athletic department was in better shape.

Dixon is the only one with a resume proving he is better in the long run. Shaka, Underwood and Beard will take time to judge.

I would like to see a list of coaches we could hire that would have a better resume than oscar. Although there are probably a handful of coaches that have a chance to be better.

I have an extremely shallow view as of date on who we could hire. I look at our current kenpom ranking (34) and look up and down the list to see who we could hire to improve.

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 12, 2016, 12:52:05 PM
I don't think most KSU fans grasp how hard it is going to be to hire a better coach than oscar. Specially how we are running our athletic program.

 :ROFL: we're 7th in the Big 12 in wins since oscar got here and numbers 6, 8, 9, and 10 have all fired a bad coach and replaced that coach with a better one.

Firing oscar would be putting a kroger brand band-aid on the real problem.

Tell me when the athletic department was in better shape.

Dixon is the only one with a resume proving he is better in the long run. Shaka, Underwood and Beard will take time to judge.

I would like to see a list of coaches we could hire that would have a better resume than oscar. Although there are probably a handful of coaches that have a chance to be better.

I have an extremely shallow view as of date on who we could hire. I look at our current kenpom ranking (34) and look up and down the list to see who we could hire to improve.

Who cares who has the better resume? That doesn't make any sense. So we're going to keep oscar no matter what because his team had a good March 12 years ago? Tying for the Big 12 championship 5 seasons ago carries more weight than the following 5th, 6th, and 8th? If it's time to go it's time to go. You can pay some life long assistant $700,000 to finish in 8th place.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: renocat on December 16, 2016, 06:21:33 AM
Building towards a hell of a run.  We should have some success this year, but reading about the recruits in the pipeline excites me.  Now is not the time to climb up on the stove and crap in the simmering pot of stew.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 16, 2016, 08:17:16 AM
Building towards a hell of a run.  We should have some success this year, but reading about the recruits in the pipeline excites me.  Now is not the time to climb up on the stove and crap in the simmering pot of stew.
Agreed I'm excited it will be very fun in the next few years

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 02:01:39 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2Foscar-record-1-15-16.png&hash=e34a78fb9f90f89d52135656ca1f1deb061d88dc)
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 15, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
7-28 in true road games over the last 4 seasons. 
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 15, 2017, 02:48:39 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 15, 2017, 02:49:24 PM
Conference winning % on the uptick so far this year.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 15, 2017, 02:52:51 PM
Conference winning % on the uptick so far this year.

That doesn't sound correct.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 15, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Conference winning % on the uptick so far this year.

That doesn't sound correct.

40% > 28%, no?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 15, 2017, 02:57:36 PM
Conference winning % on the uptick so far this year.

That doesn't sound correct.

40% > 28%, no?

I thought you meant it was moving the needle on his overall conference win % up. My bad. Yeah, real banner year for oscar so far.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 03:11:34 PM
he's a lock to get at least 18 wins this year.  i like the look of that 0-4 against rpi 100s, but that's sure to improve as we move into the meat of the conference schedule.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 03:38:09 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 15, 2017, 03:43:51 PM
I guess I'll just leave this here.

Quote from: john currie
oscar has more total career wins.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: SdK on January 15, 2017, 04:08:22 PM
Frank did better guys. That road difference is stark
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: The Big Train on January 15, 2017, 04:15:35 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

That is actually pretty incredible when you match up the numbers.  We talk about wanting Frank back and all the good he did, but when you compare those numbers the two coaches aren't even close to each other.  Say what you want about the first 2 years, but what if oscar didn't have Frank's players?   :sdeek:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: SdK on January 15, 2017, 04:25:25 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

That is actually pretty incredible when you match up the numbers.  We talk about wanting Frank back and all the good he did, but when you compare those numbers the two coaches aren't even close to each other.  Say what you want about the first 2 years, but what if oscar didn't have Frank's players?   :sdeek:

Oh please. Frank followed Huggs, with Huggs players. Without that, these numbers are probably a lot closer.

If oscar didn't have the luxury of taking over a mutiny, his numbers would be worse as well.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: The Big Train on January 15, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

That is actually pretty incredible when you match up the numbers.  We talk about wanting Frank back and all the good he did, but when you compare those numbers the two coaches aren't even close to each other.  Say what you want about the first 2 years, but what if oscar didn't have Frank's players?   :sdeek:

Oh please. Frank followed Huggs, with Huggs players. Without that, these numbers are probably a lot closer.

If oscar didn't have the luxury of taking over a mutiny, his numbers would be worse as well.

This wasn't the first time oscar inherited a good team.  Frank was a first time head coach when he took over, it's not like Huggs got rid of the Woolridge culture in a single year.

Comparing those two situations is not a very good argument. 
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: SdK on January 15, 2017, 04:31:31 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

That is actually pretty incredible when you match up the numbers.  We talk about wanting Frank back and all the good he did, but when you compare those numbers the two coaches aren't even close to each other.  Say what you want about the first 2 years, but what if oscar didn't have Frank's players?   :sdeek:

Oh please. Frank followed Huggs, with Huggs players. Without that, these numbers are probably a lot closer.

If oscar didn't have the luxury of taking over a mutiny, his numbers would be worse as well.

This wasn't the first time oscar inherited a good team.  Frank was a first time head coach when he took over, it's not like Huggs got rid of the Woolridge culture in a single year.

Comparing those two situations is not a very good argument.

Are you serial?
Title: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 04:32:46 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

And I don't buy the hypothetical Frank mutiny.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 04:36:54 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

And I don't buy the hypothetical Frank mutiny.

Look at Kenpom, they absolutely got better.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: SdK on January 15, 2017, 04:38:16 PM
I must have forgot who was on the collective respective first year teams for each coach here.


Also, this isn't meant as a oscar apology. He is absolutely to blame for his own shitty numbers. The cupboard wasn't bare.

It was more of a statement on what I perceive that each coach walked into. Maybe I'm a homer, but I absolutely believe Jake was a very very very very special player and that Frank isn't close to as successful without him.


I don't really wanna argue. I was just saying what I thought about the numbers. Frank is clearly the better coach. I just don't like either coach.

I'll buy mutiny based upon the next seasons results. I don't think oscar wins the Big 12 without the players feeling some relief about Frank being gone.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 04:39:30 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

kenpom thinks this team is roughly comparable to martin's last year at kstate and weber's first.  it's been a strange path to (almost) get back to where we were.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 04:41:51 PM
Those RPI numbers seem pretty telling. I guess I don't have much to compare them with, but it seems like we purposefully play a bunch of shitty teams because we're not very good against quality teams. 20-44 against top 50 competition? I mean, yeah, I expect a dropoff from 51-100, but a 50% decline tells me we haven't had a program that's capable of competing against tourney competition while he's been here. Ultimately why I want him gone, I don't care if we're 12-6 vs NIT/CBI/CIT level competition. If you're not capable of beating NCAA tournament teams regularly (at least hold serve at home, goodness that number sucks), then what's the point of keeping the guy around? He's slightly better than Wooly or Asbury, good for him I guess.

I guess I'll just leave this here.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FFrank-oscar-Record-1-15-17.png&hash=5c965dfbe9e12f80e06837027f04d43c4f7f2ed8)

That is actually pretty incredible when you match up the numbers.  We talk about wanting Frank back and all the good he did, but when you compare those numbers the two coaches aren't even close to each other.  Say what you want about the first 2 years, but what if oscar didn't have Frank's players?   :sdeek:

Oh please. Frank followed Huggs, with Huggs players. Without that, these numbers are probably a lot closer.

If oscar didn't have the luxury of taking over a mutiny, his numbers would be worse as well.

This wasn't the first time oscar inherited a good team.  Frank was a first time head coach when he took over, it's not like Huggs got rid of the Woolridge culture in a single year.

Comparing those two situations is not a very good argument.
Culture is an excuse for not being coached well enough and/or not being talented enough.

We moved up from 57 -> 25 in kenpom in 2008 because Micheal Beasley was a really talented player. We move down to 51 a year later because Beasley was a really talented player. Frank was good enough to not eff it up.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 04:46:04 PM
I absolutely believe Jake was a very very very very special player and that Frank isn't close to as successful without him.

martin was on the staff that recruited pullen. and although young, stewart and walker got some playing time under huggins, the team as a whole was not an established group carrying over a coaching philosophy from the previous regime.  weber had nothing to do with any of the players that were important to his first year's success and the group was experienced and had played together successfully for years prior to his arrival.


both coaches had pretty nice situations to step into, but they aren't very comparable.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 04:56:42 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

kenpom thinks this team is roughly comparable to martin's last year at kstate and weber's first.  it's been a strange path to (almost) get back to where we were.

True, but it will be extremely fluid from now on. If oscar manages to get the defense better and ends up 27 or better, then this is likely a tournament team and he'll be fine. If we keep losing, even close, kenpom will fall into the 40s.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 04:57:44 PM
I absolutely believe Jake was a very very very very special player and that Frank isn't close to as successful without him.

martin was on the staff that recruited pullen. and although young, stewart and walker got some playing time under huggins, the team as a whole was not an established group carrying over a coaching philosophy from the previous regime.  weber had nothing to do with any of the players that were important to his first year's success and the group was experienced and had played together successfully for years prior to his arrival.


both coaches had pretty nice situations to step into, but they aren't very comparable.

I think the only thing that is evident for the past 20 years is Huggins is on a complete different level when evaluating guards than anyone else.

I am still no happy about the Stefhon Hannah.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Canary on January 15, 2017, 05:01:12 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

kenpom thinks this team is roughly comparable to martin's last year at kstate and weber's first.  it's been a strange path to (almost) get back to where we were.

True, but it will be extremely fluid from now on. If oscar manages to get the defense better and ends up 27 or better, then this is likely a tournament team and he'll be fine. If we keep losing, even close, kenpom will fall into the 40s.
Head, not heart, _fan, how many more wins do we get this year?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 05:03:46 PM
I would guess 5-6 more wins.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:04:44 PM
If we keep losing, even close, kenpom will fall into the 40s.

we can lose to winless osu on wed and improve our kenpom rating.  there is a path.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Canary on January 15, 2017, 05:05:23 PM
I'm hoping for seven but doubt we can get there.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 05:05:29 PM
It's simple, Frank got better as he went along, mainly with his own players. oscar is on his 2nd set of his own players after running off his first and it's not getting better.

kenpom thinks this team is roughly comparable to martin's last year at kstate and weber's first.  it's been a strange path to (almost) get back to where we were.

True, but it will be extremely fluid from now on. If oscar manages to get the defense better and ends up 27 or better, then this is likely a tournament team and he'll be fine. If we keep losing, even close, kenpom will fall into the 40s.

Half the games are in. If you look at the AdjEM it is easier for us to creep up, just slightly. With a project record of 6-8 through out and with our biggest spreads being loses, WVU, @BU, @WVU and @ISU. Keeping it close would probably help us.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
If we keep losing, even close, kenpom will fall into the 40s.

we can lose to winless osu on wed and improve our kenpom rating.  there is a path.

I don't think close losing is sustainable. Eventually a game will be uglier (similar to the last 8 minutes of Baylor) leading to substantial drops in kenpom.

If we win the 5-6 games I think we will, we may end up in the upper 30s.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:11:58 PM
I don't think close losing is sustainable. Eventually a game will be uglier (similar to the last 8 minutes of Baylor) leading to substantial drops in kenpom.

we can also win games by more than is predicted.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:13:59 PM
i mean if we can get the loss to the cows, we can go .500 from there out and still easily miss the tourney.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 15, 2017, 05:19:51 PM
i mean if we can get the loss to the cows, we can go .500 from there out and still easily miss the tourney.

It's funny to think how the AD staff that's assigned to keep tabs on things explains this sort of discussion to currie.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 05:47:24 PM
If we end up having the best team in the oscar Weber era, it wouldn't be hard to give actual good evidence. But it wouldn't be received well and I think the probability of a move would be likely.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
If we end up having the best team in the oscar Weber era, it wouldn't be hard to give actual good evidence. But it wouldn't be received well and I think the probability of a move would be likely.

If that's the case (I assume you mean kenpom) we'll be in the tournament. IMHO.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:52:00 PM
think how the AD staff that's assigned to keep tabs on things explains this sort of discussion to currie.

that was quite fun to imagine.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:52:55 PM
your pessimism is kinda deflating, royals.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 15, 2017, 05:55:53 PM
your pessimism is kinda deflating, royals.

The kpnt30 thing is cute, but there is a reason it rarely happens and I don't think this team will do it. They either win 9-10 games and finish 25 or better kp, or the losing continues and it falls apart, falling into the 40s. I don't see the middle ground leading to rare air.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 15, 2017, 05:58:08 PM
the big 12 has five teams between 23 and 34.  someone in this conference is going to do it and it might as well be us.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 15, 2017, 06:05:03 PM
the big 12 has five teams between 23 and 34.  someone in this conference is going to do it and it might as well be us.

With how shitty the Big 10, PAC 12 and SEC are it is very possible that two teams do it.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 15, 2017, 06:48:41 PM
the big 12 has five teams between 23 and 34.  someone in this conference is going to do it and it might as well be us.

Why settle for 40 when 30 is available?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: LeggoKatZ on January 15, 2017, 07:39:06 PM
(https://scontent.fmci1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/15970561_10154378446232903_1415905689_n.jpg?oh=ab62e05634c3bfe1f53a8f5cc3c5327a&oe=587E7BDA)
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: BackPayne on January 15, 2017, 08:36:52 PM
Maybe another school will swoop in and steal oscar from us. That would be sad.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Skipper44 on January 16, 2017, 12:13:17 PM
your pessimism is kinda deflating, royals.

The kpnt30 thing is cute, but there is a reason it rarely happens and I don't think this team will do it. They either win 9-10 games and finish 25 or better kp, or the losing continues and it falls apart, falling into the 40s. I don't see the middle ground leading to rare air.
maybe that is an opportunity for the Highest Rated Team to Not Make Any Post Season in the History of KenPom

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Skipper44 on January 16, 2017, 12:19:42 PM
I have just started looking at this but we were the No Invite champs for 2016 with our 55 going by the final rankings, will I have to fire up my old paypal account to see the bid week ratings?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: renocat on January 16, 2017, 12:28:06 PM
Win games.  Solves a lot.of debates.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: MakeItRain on January 16, 2017, 02:40:23 PM
I have just started looking at this but we were the No Invite champs for 2016 with our 55 going by the final rankings, will I have to fire up my old paypal account to see the bid week ratings?

We had a post-session invite last year, didn't take it.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Skipper44 on January 16, 2017, 02:41:53 PM
Most people have never heard of the cbi so I have no problem ignoring it
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 16, 2017, 05:17:21 PM
Someone on twitter asked for a further break down of Frank/oscar road wins.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VA-KmVEAAQBu5.png:large)
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 17, 2017, 11:37:47 AM
Someone on twitter asked for a further break down of Frank/oscar road wins.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VA-KmVEAAQBu5.png:large)

Franks ability to win really hard road games is amazing. This chart is very miss leading to a degree, It does' show the quantity of different quality games. oscar has played a decent amount more of top 25 kenpom roadies. Where Frank played a fraction more of 100+ Kenpom road games. It isn't an apple to apple comparison.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 17, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
the dispersion may be different but the mean opponent (60.0 v 56.4) is pretty similar.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 17, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: john currie
oscar is twice as good as Frank.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: SleepFighter on January 17, 2017, 11:49:32 AM
Someone on twitter asked for a further break down of Frank/oscar road wins.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VA-KmVEAAQBu5.png:large)

Franks ability to win really hard road games is amazing. This chart is very miss leading to a degree, It does' show the quantity of different quality games. oscar has played a decent amount more of top 25 kenpom roadies. Where Frank played a fraction more of 100+ Kenpom road games. It isn't an apple to apple comparison.

So oscar has had more oppy's for high quality road wins, and managed to get fewer? Excellent point.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Tobias on January 17, 2017, 11:49:34 AM
#science
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 17, 2017, 11:52:20 AM
Someone on twitter asked for a further break down of Frank/oscar road wins.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VA-KmVEAAQBu5.png:large)

Franks ability to win really hard road games is amazing. This chart is very miss leading to a degree, It does' show the quantity of different quality games. oscar has played a decent amount more of top 25 kenpom roadies. Where Frank played a fraction more of 100+ Kenpom road games. It isn't an apple to apple comparison.

I put it in another thread, but 51% of Frank's road Big 12 games were top 50. 66% for oscar. 29% of Frank's were Top 25, 45% for oscar.

Still Frank over won half his road games. oscar is winning 26%, and that's after a 5-4 first year. And his win% vs all categories is way worse. oscar must get better at winning on the road, this year, to keep his job and be a viable Big 12 coach. Its really not even a debate.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 17, 2017, 11:54:20 AM
So oscar has had more oppy's for high quality road wins, and managed to get fewer? Excellent point.

Frank is WAY better in every category (except >100 wins).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VLwTGUAAAhYhW.png:large)

oscar has no excuse. None.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 17, 2017, 11:58:19 AM
So oscar has had more oppy's for high quality road wins, and managed to get fewer? Excellent point.

Frank is WAY better in every category (except >100 wins).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VLwTGUAAAhYhW.png:large)

oscar has no excuse. None.

It would read better if you broke down like. 1-10, 10-25, 25-50, 50-100. Then you have a better understanding of quality of games played.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: #LIFE on January 17, 2017, 12:00:19 PM


oscar has no excuse. None.

Oh I would be quite certain that he does. That's one thing he never runs out of.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 17, 2017, 12:04:30 PM
You could break it down more, but I think the chart is pretty clear.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 17, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
are those categories inclusive (that is are the top 10 games also included in the top 25 games, etc)?  it looks like they are.  i agree with mn, it's misleading to present the data that way, it overrepresents the games against higher rated teams.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Asteriskhead on January 17, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
So oscar has had more oppy's for high quality road wins, and managed to get fewer? Excellent point.

Frank is WAY better in every category (except >100 wins).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2VLwTGUAAAhYhW.png:large)

oscar has no excuse. None.

It would read better if you broke down like. 1-10, 10-25, 25-50, 50-100. Then you have a better understanding of quality of games played.

I think everyone is pretty clear on their understanding.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 17, 2017, 12:38:11 PM
are those categories inclusive (that is are the top 10 games also included in the top 25 games, etc)?  it looks like they are.  i agree with mn, it's misleading to present the data that way, it overrepresents the games against higher rated teams.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FRoad-wins-3.png&hash=9c8afe4047fc5316f69028c6f7c50a91729013ee)
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 17, 2017, 12:40:24 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 17, 2017, 12:41:09 PM
yes, that's better.  thanks.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Tobias on January 17, 2017, 12:41:15 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on January 17, 2017, 12:41:30 PM
I think the more you break it down, the worse oscar looks.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 17, 2017, 12:42:13 PM
I think the more you break it down, the worse oscar looks.

Keep going!
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 17, 2017, 12:44:43 PM
he has the chance to move into a tie with martin in 26-50 road games with a win tomorrow!
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 17, 2017, 12:48:08 PM
I think the more you break it down, the worse oscar looks.

It makes Frank time at K-State look special. Being 3-5 in games where you are about 7-13 point dogs with a chance to win hovering between 20-5% is stupid good.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 18, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
http://www.illinoishomepage.net/sports/illini/boiler-up-purdue-blows-out-illinois/641737020
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on January 18, 2017, 01:16:49 AM
http://www.illinoishomepage.net/sports/illini/boiler-up-purdue-blows-out-illinois/641737020

weber's been practicing for kp30nt his whole life.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: PIPE on January 18, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Man, what would happen if the NIT matched up the Cats at Illinois for round #1?  Ratings bonanza!
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: CHONGS on January 18, 2017, 11:16:10 AM
Illinois would have to make it first.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: wetwillie on January 18, 2017, 11:38:59 AM
#stillnotmycoach
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 18, 2017, 10:19:47 PM
Dear @colemanbeck,

oscar has outscored big12 opponents on the road this year by an average of 3+ ppg.

Incredible road warrior
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on January 18, 2017, 10:24:04 PM
oscar is... overruled.

https://twitter.com/Joel_Jellison/status/821924049211236353
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: GregKSU1027 on February 23, 2018, 02:41:08 AM
Oscar is tied for third in the Big 12

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: renocat on February 23, 2018, 08:55:22 AM
Oscar is tied for third in the Big 12

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
That sounds good especially knowing we ain't paying anyone or running a doper den.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: mocat on February 23, 2018, 09:08:59 AM
are those categories inclusive (that is are the top 10 games also included in the top 25 games, etc)?  it looks like they are.  i agree with mn, it's misleading to present the data that way, it overrepresents the games against higher rated teams.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FRoad-wins-3.png&hash=9c8afe4047fc5316f69028c6f7c50a91729013ee)

somehow i missed this thread last year. great stuff FAN!

iyrc, were frank's 5 top 10 road losses all @KU?
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 23, 2018, 09:35:52 AM
are those categories inclusive (that is are the top 10 games also included in the top 25 games, etc)?  it looks like they are.  i agree with mn, it's misleading to present the data that way, it overrepresents the games against higher rated teams.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2FRoad-wins-3.png&hash=9c8afe4047fc5316f69028c6f7c50a91729013ee)

somehow i missed this thread last year. great stuff FAN!

iyrc, were frank's 5 top 10 road losses all @KU?

I'll have to go back and look.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: CHONGS on February 28, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
Right where he wants to be:

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FnwSCh.png&hash=1bb6ce5b12848ce79d3d1f41a404bf2e107963af)

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FI4vOH.png&hash=210aa9dd78091734afd0284f294a1c630733e63a)
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: BackPayne on February 28, 2018, 04:27:02 PM
Send those graphs to AD Taylor!
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on February 28, 2018, 04:30:12 PM
Right where he wants to be

Arguably right where KSU wanted to be too.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on February 28, 2018, 05:58:39 PM
it's just great that both weberites and webervores still have a reason to tune in for the regular season finale.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: Trim on February 28, 2018, 06:09:48 PM
it's just great that both weberites and webervores still have a reason to tune in for the regular season finale.

Plus last-minute BeasleyPAK talk.
Title: Re: oscar is...
Post by: sys on February 28, 2018, 06:12:11 PM
someone's going to have to add me to their twitter group text list.