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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: ednksu on July 17, 2016, 10:43:02 AM

Title: Baton Rouge
Post by: ednksu on July 17, 2016, 10:43:02 AM
This is getting rough ridin' old....
3 cops down, 7 wounded
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: renocat on July 17, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
I can't ....... I don't...... Please God help.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: The Big Train on July 17, 2016, 12:11:30 PM
I can't ....... I don't...... Please God help.

Start praying, if we all start right now he may hear us!
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Bloodfart on July 17, 2016, 12:15:29 PM
crap who needs terrorists, we're doing a great job terrorizing each other. 
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: The Big Train on July 17, 2016, 12:16:10 PM
This all needs to stop, sucks that it won't :frown:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: CNS on July 17, 2016, 12:40:17 PM
Yeah. It sucks that after all this, and whatever else is coming, that we are probably going to ultimately end up with even more segregation, hate, and a ramp up of racism because a few key groups on both sides of this issue are completely mishandling everything.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: ednksu on July 17, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
1 suspect dead, cops looking for 2 more. 
CNN updated causality.
3 cops down, 3 wounded (1 critical)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: renocat on July 17, 2016, 05:01:50 PM
Killer from KC according to Breitbart, and today was his birthday.  He was wearing body armor.  Sounds premeditated.  I am scared for cops especially with the other two low lifes at large.  Blacks do have legit beefs, but this is turning white stupidity into revengeful white rage.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 17, 2016, 08:29:50 PM

  :frown:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 17, 2016, 09:00:38 PM
(https://i.sli.mg/OhiqIU.jpg)

Full post. Just had a kid too.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 17, 2016, 09:08:37 PM
Glad to see the liberals finally coming around to realizing their bullshit antics, based on bullshit statistics, has gotten out of hand. But boy does it take a lot of damage and deaths before the blinders come off.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: OK_Cat on July 17, 2016, 09:15:55 PM
This will continue to be a problem as long as fuckwads like ksuwildcats makes this a political thing instead of a human thing. Everybody stop killing everybody.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: The Big Train on July 17, 2016, 09:18:16 PM
He cares more about the unborn than the living. Pretty sad if you ask me
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on July 17, 2016, 10:06:16 PM
Glad to see the liberals finally coming around to realizing their bullshit antics, based on bullshit statistics, has gotten out of hand. But boy does it take a lot of damage and deaths before the blinders come off.

what are you talking about?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SkinnyBenny on July 17, 2016, 10:29:29 PM
He cares more about the unborn than the living. Pretty sad if you ask me

That can be said about basically any rabidly pro-life person.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 17, 2016, 11:03:18 PM
Glad to see the liberals finally coming around to realizing their bullshit antics, based on bullshit statistics, has gotten out of hand. But boy does it take a lot of damage and deaths before the blinders come off.
Just stop. It's sad not political.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 17, 2016, 11:14:46 PM
What would make it a political thing? If the motive of the shooter is uncovered?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 18, 2016, 12:01:46 AM
Nothing would.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 18, 2016, 12:12:21 AM
Haha ok
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on July 18, 2016, 12:34:26 AM
What would make it a political thing? If the motive of the shooter is uncovered?

you're not going to believe this, but he had his own youtube channel with PUA/alpha male advice.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 18, 2016, 01:47:28 AM
Something about PUA/alpha youtube videos really triggers you  :dunno:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: steve dave on July 18, 2016, 06:46:15 AM
I thought kk was just messing with stunz

Quote
The website also references to a second portal promoting his life-coach business and includes Amazon links to three self-published books under the brand "The Cosmo Way."

Many of his posts are dedicated to his ideas of what it means to be an "alpha" male.

nope
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 18, 2016, 07:10:00 AM
Alpha males don't use guns. They use their words and their fists. Smdh.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 18, 2016, 07:26:16 AM
When the black lives matter movement whipped people up into a frenzy based on absurd "victims" (Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc.) and stories and numbers that were misleading at best to downright false ("hands up don't shoot!) they promoted this hateful culture that has now led to officers being murdered. Liberals and liberal politicians embraced BLM. They encouraged it. They participated in it. Liberals don't get to just wash the blood off your hands now and say "gee this is really sad. Hey now, this isn't political."

The BLM movement has poisoned hearts and minds. It has taken the focus off the real problem for heavily minority communities - crime - and made that problem worse by endangering and alienating the cops they need most to help them.

Now Barack Obama is saying "we need to stop all the racially divisive language." As not only the president, but a president who thrives on identity politics, he has been the single loudest mouthpiece for racially divisive language!

Granted, I don't think it is typically fair to paint an entire movement based upon the actions of a few disturbed individuals - but BLM is a fraud. When you sow lies and phony victims, the movement has culpability.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 07:36:54 AM
 :Ugh:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on July 18, 2016, 07:52:33 AM
guns don't kill people, sowing lies and phony victims kill people
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 18, 2016, 08:12:35 AM
guns don't kill people, sowing lies and phony victims kill people

phony dead victims
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on July 18, 2016, 08:19:52 AM
Glad you got that off your chest KSUW.


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Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on July 18, 2016, 08:24:48 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160718/75c9bf64348e7ed5e578925cb1024bd8.png)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 18, 2016, 08:26:40 AM
Seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: treysolid on July 18, 2016, 08:34:18 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160718/75c9bf64348e7ed5e578925cb1024bd8.png)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i commend trump for his courageous stance that "it has to do with something." he says the things that people are afraid to say!
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 18, 2016, 08:38:03 AM
It was a much better response than I would have expected.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: CNS on July 18, 2016, 08:43:35 AM
Crime isn't the issue in the neighborhoods.  It's a symptom. 
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 09:00:16 AM
There's something there
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: gatoveintisiete on July 18, 2016, 09:29:53 AM
When the black lives matter movement whipped people up into a frenzy based on absurd "victims" (Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc.) and stories and numbers that were misleading at best to downright false ("hands up don't shoot!) they promoted this hateful culture that has now led to officers being murdered. Liberals and liberal politicians embraced BLM. They encouraged it. They participated in it. Liberals don't get to just wash the blood off your hands now and say "gee this is really sad. Hey now, this isn't political."

The BLM movement has poisoned hearts and minds. It has taken the focus off the real problem for heavily minority communities - crime - and made that problem worse by endangering and alienating the cops they need most to help them.

Now Barack Obama is saying "we need to stop all the racially divisive language." As not only the president, but a president who thrives on identity politics, he has been the single loudest mouthpiece for racially divisive language!

Granted, I don't think it is typically fair to paint an entire movement based upon the actions of a few disturbed individuals - but BLM is a fraud. When you sow lies and phony victims, the movement has culpability.

The media have played a part as well, the police shooting citizens have ranged from the Brown type that have been misrepresented leading to a small town being burned down, to some of the more recent ones where the cops appear to clearly have mumped up,  the problem is while cops kill people of all races and make these types of mistakes indiscriminately the media portrays them as virtually hunting blacks.
The media, our President, and the democrat party are guilty of the equivalent of hollering fire in a crowded movie theatre.  What they have done has been to politically divide and conquer, unfortunately it is having dire consequences right now, you all should know that the folks listed above and their supporters are bad people.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 18, 2016, 09:34:41 AM
While I can see that the political folks will use anything to get votes, I, personally, feel the issue is about how police treat minorities in general, less about the shootings.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 09:36:01 AM
Liberal media, the president, and and the Democratic party  :curse:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 18, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
The shootings call attention to the larger issue. Do I think minorities are the only ones who get the short end? No. I've been mistreated by police on a few occasions. I'm a white male. But that is three times in the span of 16 years.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 18, 2016, 09:45:16 AM
What a pickle.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: ChiCat on July 18, 2016, 09:52:35 AM
yea, the solution should've been to marginalize black people's feelings and experiences.  Then there is no way anybody would feel a need to lash out in violence.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 10:09:13 AM
When a tragedy furthers their agenda it's speeches, demonstrations, public disturbance and violence, from as high as the whitehouse. When the tragedy doesn't further their agenda, it's "not political" it's only "sad". #thinkprogress #sociopaths
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 18, 2016, 10:59:48 AM
yea, the solution should've been to marginalize black people's feelings and experiences.  Then there is no way anybody would feel a need to lash out in violence.

That's a false choice.... oh nevermind.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 18, 2016, 11:02:59 AM
The shootings call attention to the larger issue. Do I think minorities are the only ones who get the short end? No. I've been mistreated by police on a few occasions. I'm a white male. But that is three times in the span of 16 years.

3 times actually seems like a lot. The worst run-ins with police I've had are a few bullshit turn violation traffic tickets, but I'd say that's more of a nuisance than mistreatment.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 18, 2016, 11:21:13 AM
The shootings call attention to the larger issue. Do I think minorities are the only ones who get the short end? No. I've been mistreated by police on a few occasions. I'm a white male. But that is three times in the span of 16 years.

3 times actually seems like a lot. The worst run-ins with police I've had are a few bullshit turn violation traffic tickets, but I'd say that's more of a nuisance than mistreatment.
Once was physical. Twice were verbal. One time a cop slowed down to 2 mph (no exaggeration) before making his right turn. This caused me to get quite close as I didn't think he was going go keep slowing down. He then flipped a u turn and pulled me over for following too close. He came up to my window and instantly started screaming at me while reciting my whole driving record and how terrible of a driver I must be. Citing 3 accidents and one speeding ticket as his proof. Hit two deer and got rear ended. The ticket for 96 in a 70 was legit and that police officer proceeded to go bit by bit over how his car was so much faster than mine. Lol. Anyway first story cop lectured me for a good 10 minutes before giving me a ticket.

On the flip side I've had plenty of good interactions with police. Twice when I was homeless and living at the rest stop, a couple of times as an underage drinker, and other times generally just letting me off with a warning.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SdK on July 18, 2016, 11:22:04 AM
I'll add that I had a lip ring for all bad encounters and no metal in my face for all of the positive.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: stunted on July 18, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
I thought kk was just messing with stunz

Quote
The website also references to a second portal promoting his life-coach business and includes Amazon links to three self-published books under the brand "The Cosmo Way."

Many of his posts are dedicated to his ideas of what it means to be an "alpha" male.

nope

Lol, mind blown
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: TCUHornedFrog on July 18, 2016, 12:15:14 PM
Another crazy person with a gun shoots some cops.

Clearly, we need to not doing anything to prevent crazy fuckers from getting guns. 
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
I thought kk was just messing with stunz

Quote
The website also references to a second portal promoting his life-coach business and includes Amazon links to three self-published books under the brand "The Cosmo Way."

Many of his posts are dedicated to his ideas of what it means to be an "alpha" male.

nope

Lol, mind blown

This is the rational response to the red pill alpha male bullshit
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 18, 2016, 01:48:21 PM
Liberal agenda.  :cry:

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 01:56:36 PM
Good grief, that cop lacks density
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on July 18, 2016, 02:02:40 PM
Good grief, that cop lacks density

Yeah, that sheriff could swim in alcohol.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Trim on July 18, 2016, 02:06:49 PM
Did Don Lemon get shot during the break or nah?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Emo EMAW on July 18, 2016, 03:28:31 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754609_10209926434306341_834966952496600000_n.jpg?oh=2b8d50f90ace455f6215f32c8e087721&oe=57F2712C)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on July 18, 2016, 03:30:15 PM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dugout DickStone on July 18, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
JOCO? :Wha:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 18, 2016, 03:36:43 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754609_10209926434306341_834966952496600000_n.jpg?oh=2b8d50f90ace455f6215f32c8e087721&oe=57F2712C)

I appreciate that he turned the "c" into an asterisk. There could be kids looking at that. I hope his tail lights are working properly?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Emo EMAW on July 18, 2016, 03:38:53 PM
Clearly the issue is a symptom of poverty or something.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 08:13:19 PM
Good grief, that cop lacks density

Lacks density
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on July 18, 2016, 08:14:20 PM
Good grief, that cop lacks density

Lacks density

Apparently
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 08:18:10 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 08:19:05 PM
Per b.o., it was the cops fault they got shot. Typical blame the victim mentality of the monsters among us.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 08:22:55 PM
B.o. also compared blm to the women's suffrage movement and the abolitionists. Holy crap, you can't make up this level of delusion.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on July 18, 2016, 09:44:06 PM
Liberal agenda.  :cry:

Invalid Tweet ID

How in the hell did that bacon make Don Lemon seem reasonable and sympathetic?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 09:58:05 PM
Bob Lemon + Don Sutton = Don Lemon, super pitcher, coach, TV announcer
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on July 18, 2016, 11:26:04 PM
What exactly is Washitaw Nation?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 09:42:14 AM
@SkinnyBenny, what's going on here? Are you now a resident of St. George?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 09:44:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3G0pJko.jpg)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 17, 2019, 09:46:21 AM
I thought SB lived in New Orleans.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 09:47:01 AM
Maybe!  :dunno:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 17, 2019, 09:50:53 AM
I read briefly about that St. George thing and it seems pretty gross.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 17, 2019, 09:54:49 AM
I personally think city governments when suburban cities directly border cities and other suburbs is stupid. I wish the Bay Area did away with city control and formed a regional government because they're all so intertwined.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 09:56:21 AM
Completely agree, consolidated metro governments make much more sense
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 17, 2019, 10:00:48 AM
I personally think city governments when suburban cities directly border cities and other suburbs is stupid. I wish the Bay Area did away with city control and formed a regional government because they're all so intertwined.

I live in a Municipal Utility District (MUD) in Texas and we're basically subject to our surrounding city's laws and ordinances but not entitled to their police or fire or any other community services.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 17, 2019, 11:25:31 AM
I personally think city governments when suburban cities directly border cities and other suburbs is stupid. I wish the Bay Area did away with city control and formed a regional government because they're all so intertwined.

I live in a Municipal Utility District (MUD) in Texas and we're basically subject to our surrounding city's laws and ordinances but not entitled to their police or fire or any other community services.

that's mumped up
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: mocat on October 17, 2019, 11:29:35 AM
yikes, i thought southern cities were less segregated than midwestern cities
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 17, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
yikes, i thought southern cities were less segregated than midwestern cities

Same. I want to look at more of those type of maps.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 17, 2019, 11:56:37 AM
Umm, why would you guys think cities in the south were less segregated?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 17, 2019, 12:02:40 PM
yikes, i thought southern cities were less segregated than midwestern cities

Same. I want to look at more of those type of maps.

https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/index.html


Umm, why would you guys think cities in the south were less segregated?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/12/17/black-white-segregation-edges-downward-since-2000-census-shows/

http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_dissimilarity_white_black.html

:dunno:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 17, 2019, 12:04:19 PM
Umm, why would you guys think cities in the south were less segregated?

Common (maybe wrong) assumption (at least black/white) is whites never minded living around blacks in the south as long as they kept in line. They were familiar and were always around each other. Of course, over time, in some areas those prejudices softened fueling more multiracial neighborhoods, especially economically similar blacks living with whites of same income range.

In the north (see KC, JOCO, etc.) whites don't want blacks near them. Out of sight out of mind.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:08:10 PM
Bringing the average Johnson County'ite (or similar) to the average Southern city for any length of time would cause days of anxiety and angst.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 12:12:34 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2018.12.14_metro_Frey_white-black-residents_map.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)

According to science, the kc metro is less segregated (and improving!) than Birmingham
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2018.12.14_metro_Frey_white-black-residents_map.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)

According to science, the kc metro is less segregated (and improving!) than Birmingham

According to on the ground reality, that's bullshit.

There's no Leawood cops waiting for the black guy to cross State Line in Birmingham, among many many things.

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 17, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2018.12.14_metro_Frey_white-black-residents_map.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)

According to science, the kc metro is less segregated (and improving!) than Birmingham

Surprising, and good (not for B'ham)!
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 12:19:40 PM
Yup, great job kc metro, keep up the progress  :thumbs:

Hopefully bham chooses to follow their lead.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:23:50 PM
Yup, great job kc metro, keep up the progress  :thumbs:

Hopefully bham chooses to follow their lead.

I'll remember this next time I'm traveling through the vast all white burbs of suburban KC.    You have to go out the farther-est reaches of the BHAM metroplex before you find anything remotely close and those cities are 1/8th to 1/10th the size of OP, Lenexa, Olathe and Blue Springs.



Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Chingon on October 17, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
Translation: dax sees what he considers to be a lot of black people while driving around bham (doors locked of course).
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:43:32 PM
Translation: dax sees what he considers to be a lot of black people while driving around bham (doors locked of course).

LOL, where do you live Chin?

I don't need to drive around to see black people or people of color, all I need to do is walk out my front door.  We're minorities where I live.




Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 12:46:26 PM
The dot map in kRusty's first link seems to be at odds with dax's observations  :frown:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Chingon on October 17, 2019, 12:46:42 PM
Lol nice try Patrick.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:47:15 PM
Lol nice try Patrick.

Pretty simple question, where do you live, Chin?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 12:51:03 PM
Has the census data been corrupted by libderps just like climate data?  :jeffy:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 12:52:36 PM
The dot map in kRusty's first link seems to be at odds with dax's observations  :frown:

Please point out Birmingham on either of these lists:

(https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2018.12.14_metro_Frey_white-black-residents_.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 17, 2019, 12:58:20 PM
My belief that the south is more segregated more than or equal to that of midwest is purely anecdotal.  Driving through Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas and one town will be 100% white and 5 miles down the road will be a town 100% black.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
I guess Chin (who never shows up unless I post) isn't going to tell us where he lives.   :frown:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 01:04:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xdkrgRV_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Where is your gated condo community on this dax?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 01:07:10 PM
My zipcode is 31% minority LibBot.9

Weird, on that list I posted I saw that Kansas City in in the last 20 years has been one of the most segregated cities in the United States, but I didn't see Birmingham on that particular list at all.  Weird

Should we question the "Willam H Frey analysis"?

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 17, 2019, 01:09:12 PM
Does Birmingham meet the criteria of a metro area?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 01:11:12 PM
Does Birmingham meet the criteria of a metro area?

The MSA is 1.3 million.

Also good of Lib to use a dot map of data that was collected over a decade ago.

Again, I see Kansas City on those lists of "Most Segregated Cities in America" but I don't see Birmingham on either one of those lists, super weird.

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: meow meow on October 17, 2019, 01:16:12 PM
i wasn't even alive in 2000 granddad
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 01:18:12 PM
Wow! Look at that improvement kc! 70 percent down to 50 percent in just 17 years. Commendable.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 17, 2019, 01:21:33 PM
At this rate, will kc be the most integrated metro area in the nation in another 17 years?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: meow meow on October 17, 2019, 01:22:38 PM
great job kc, you sexy poa
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 17, 2019, 02:29:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3G0pJko.jpg)

White Americans are inherently evil, I'm not rough ridin' around either. Grats to you all who were raised correctly and had strong nurture to overcome generations of nature.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Chingon on October 17, 2019, 02:31:08 PM
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/Nvq0s.png)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 17, 2019, 02:41:04 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2018.12.14_metro_Frey_white-black-residents_map.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1)

According to science, the kc metro is less segregated (and improving!) than Birmingham

Surprising, and good (not for B'ham)!

I bet in the cities that have higher segregation rates also have higher income disparity. Those southern and midwestern cities have a lot more poor white people living among POC, than the coastal cities with much higher costs of living.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 17, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/Nvq0s.png)

The Raleigh-Durham area is an awesome and has all different types of non-poor people living among each other like it doesn’t matter. Would love to live there.

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 17, 2019, 03:39:28 PM
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/Nvq0s.png)

The Raleigh-Durham area is an awesome and has all different types of non-poor people living among each other like it doesn’t matter. Would love to live there.

Durham is very segregated, looks like that Baton Rouge map but with the black people on the south side instead of the north.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/05/180504-mayle-housing-segregation
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 17, 2019, 04:36:01 PM
Yes, Raleigh proper is similar in that regard, almost an identical black/hispanic only area to on the south side of a NE oriented "border,"

Still a lot of very diverse, imo, areas in the metro. Universities and being a big tech hub is obv big for that. Of course, I wasn't talking as much  just black/white but Asian (SE, Indian), and hispanic as well. I'm no expert. My wife has been there a lot for work and we have thought about moving to the area many times.

These maps are interesting:  https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/index.html

 


Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 8manpick on October 17, 2019, 06:16:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3G0pJko.jpg)

White Americans are inherently evil, I'm not rough ridin' around either. Grats to you all who were raised correctly and had strong nurture to overcome generations of nature.
:jerk:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 17, 2019, 07:03:37 PM
Was St. George in an incorporated area of East Baton Rouge Parrish?



Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Spracne on October 17, 2019, 07:04:16 PM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 17, 2019, 08:46:23 PM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.
Good thing no one in this thread did that!
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 02:58:29 AM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.

You and 8man get your little feelings hurt?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: 8manpick on October 18, 2019, 04:52:12 AM
My feelings aren't hurt, my sense of reason is, and you have your nature/nurture bass ackwards
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Spracne on October 18, 2019, 09:59:13 AM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.

You and 8man get your little feelings hurt?

Absolutely not. Everyone else had the exact same reaction to your bait, but no one wanted to engage. Frankly, I don't either. Good day to you.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 10:38:06 AM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.

You and 8man get your little feelings hurt?

Absolutely not. Everyone else had the exact same reaction to your bait, but no one wanted to engage. Frankly, I don't either. Good day to you.

Bait? LOL. I don't even know how I'll move on from white people not engaging people of color on matters of race. We're all so use to white people having open and frank conversations about this subject matter. The lack of engagement is really a shock to the system.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Spracne on October 18, 2019, 11:16:23 AM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.

You and 8man get your little feelings hurt?

Absolutely not. Everyone else had the exact same reaction to your bait, but no one wanted to engage. Frankly, I don't either. Good day to you.

Bait? LOL. I don't even know how I'll move on from white people not engaging people of color on matters of race. We're all so use to white people having open and frank conversations about this subject matter. The lack of engagement is really a shock to the system.
Any conversation that starts with "_________ people are inherently evil" is not an open and frank conversation. If you were actually interested in having such a conversation, the inherently evil whites on this blog might surprise you with their openness and frankness. There are a lot of fair-minded people on this blog, plus dax.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 11:18:35 AM
Agreed. Those who make assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin are pretty awful.

You and 8man get your little feelings hurt?

Absolutely not. Everyone else had the exact same reaction to your bait, but no one wanted to engage. Frankly, I don't either. Good day to you.

Bait? LOL. I don't even know how I'll move on from white people not engaging people of color on matters of race. We're all so use to white people having open and frank conversations about this subject matter. The lack of engagement is really a shock to the system.
I'll engage, but you make a pretty bold claim without much explanation -- and, on its face, it's a pretty insulting claim. 

What makes white people "inherently evil"?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 11:24:03 AM
He might have been using a bit of hyperbole, snowflakes
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 11:30:18 AM
He might have been using a bit of hyperbole, snowflakes rough ridin' around
I'm not rough ridin' around either
:dunno:

I'm interested in hearing him explain his viewpoint.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 12:00:43 PM
I'll engage, but you make a pretty bold claim without much explanation -- and, on its face, it's a pretty insulting claim. 

What makes white people "inherently evil"?

We're well beyond 500 years of colonization of America by Europeans. Since the very start there has been no regard to either the people who previously occupied the land or the people who were unwillingly drug here to become the backbone of the economy. Every advancement by progressive whites (I can literally name them all, Emancipation Proclamation, Brown vs. Topeka BOE, Browder vs. Gale, Loving vs. Virginia, Civil Rights Act '64,' Civil Rights Act of '68. I'd list the voting rights act but that's essentially been nullified) has been met with heavy resistance.

We have had however many generations are in 525 years worth of systematic oppression. We're literally hundreds of years of white people being birthed on the favourable side of this oppression and little to nothing has been done to fix it. On top of that we're now being told that we have some role in fixing it? What?

Look at what's happening with this conversation. I expressed anger out of illustrations of blatant segregation in 2019. Didn't was legislate that away 50 years ago? This anger has turned into me shepherding white people's fragile feelings about my opinion of the mumped up systematic racism, and trying to make all of you feel like it's going to be okay. Segregation, gerrymandering, income inequality? eff all of that, some dude pointed out that we're born into a systematically oppressive society. There has to be a real commitment by the majority to end this. It's not going to happen with some individuals committing to it although I'm grateful to those who are able to see this and at the very least pay lip service to wanting it corrected.

All of us are products of this half a millennium of oppressors and the oppressed. I guess I have to tell you individual white people in 2019 that it's not your fault, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 12:16:49 PM
I'll engage, but you make a pretty bold claim without much explanation -- and, on its face, it's a pretty insulting claim. 

What makes white people "inherently evil"?

We're well beyond 500 years of colonization of America by Europeans. Since the very start there has been no regard to either the people who previously occupied the land or the people who were unwillingly drug here to become the backbone of the economy. Every advancement by progressive whites (I can literally name them all, Emancipation Proclamation, Brown vs. Topeka BOE, Browder vs. Gale, Loving vs. Virginia, Civil Rights Act '64,' Civil Rights Act of '68. I'd list the voting rights act but that's essentially been nullified) has been met with heavy resistance.

We have had however many generations are in 525 years worth of systematic oppression. We're literally hundreds of years of white people being birthed on the favourable side of this oppression and little to nothing has been done to fix it. On top of that we're now being told that we have some role in fixing it? What?

Look at what's happening with this conversation. I expressed anger out of illustrations of blatant segregation in 2019. Didn't was legislate that away 50 years ago? This anger has turned into me shepherding white people's fragile feelings about my opinion of the mumped up systematic racism, and trying to make all of you feel like it's going to be okay. Segregation, gerrymandering, income inequality? eff all of that, some dude pointed out that we're born into a systematically oppressive society. There has to be a real commitment by the majority to end this. It's not going to happen with some individuals committing to it although I'm grateful to those who are able to see this and at the very least pay lip service to wanting it corrected.

All of us are products of this half a millennium of oppressors and the oppressed. I guess I have to tell you individual white people in 2019 that it's not your fault, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 12:18:52 PM
We're well beyond 500 years of colonization of America by Europeans. Since the very start there has been no regard to either the people who previously occupied the land or the people who were unwillingly drug here to become the backbone of the economy. Every advancement by progressive whites (I can literally name them all, Emancipation Proclamation, Brown vs. Topeka BOE, Browder vs. Gale, Loving vs. Virginia, Civil Rights Act '64,' Civil Rights Act of '68. I'd list the voting rights act but that's essentially been nullified) has been met with heavy resistance.

And a lot of those progressive advancements have regressed quite a bit, particularly with school desgregation and voting rights.

I think the main takeaway of the St. George thing is that white parents in America flat out don't want their children to go to school with black kids and don't want to pay for the education of black kids. It's like that everywhere in the US.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 12:28:46 PM
I think the main takeaway of the St. George thing is that white parents in America flat out don't want their children to go to school with black kids and don't want to pay for the education of black kids. It's like that everywhere in the US.
Maybe segregation is a byproduct, but I don't think race is the motive in most situations.  I think the more likely explanation is that parents want to send their kids to "the best schools," which are (or are perceived to be) in affluent areas with large tax bases, and inevitably leads to the exclusion of less affluent demographics, including minorities.  In other words, I think a lot of these (very real) bad effects are born mostly out of self interest, not racism. 

Obviously the motive does nothing to alleviate the bad effects, but I think the motive is still important.  And I don't think wanting your kids to go to the best schools makes someone or their kids "evil."
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 12:30:23 PM
I think the main takeaway of the St. George thing is that white parents in America flat out don't want their children to go to school with black kids and don't want to pay for the education of black kids. It's like that everywhere in the US.
Maybe segregation is a byproduct, but I don't think race is the motive in most situations.  I think the more likely explanation is that parents want to send their kids to "the best schools," which are (or are perceived to be) in affluent areas with large tax bases, and inevitably leads to the exclusion of less affluent demographics, including minorities.  In other words, I think a lot of these (very real) bad effects are born mostly out of self interest, not racism. 

there's a fine line between "self interest" and racism
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 12:36:51 PM
I think the main takeaway of the St. George thing is that white parents in America flat out don't want their children to go to school with black kids and don't want to pay for the education of black kids. It's like that everywhere in the US.
Maybe segregation is a byproduct, but I don't think race is the motive in most situations.  I think the more likely explanation is that parents want to send their kids to "the best schools," which are (or are perceived to be) in affluent areas with large tax bases, and inevitably leads to the exclusion of less affluent demographics, including minorities.  In other words, I think a lot of these (very real) bad effects are born mostly out of self interest, not racism. 

there's a fine line between "self interest" and racism
I think there can be overlap at times, but I think in order to criticize an actor for a racist action, race should be at least contemplated by the actor.

In other words, I don't think buying a house in prairie village so your kids can go to Shawnee Mission East is racist.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 12:45:20 PM

Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   

The continuance of the inequity is intentional. We have many many more people interested in whether or not they are viewed as a part of the problem than motivated to actually do anything about it.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 12:49:49 PM
I think the main takeaway of the St. George thing is that white parents in America flat out don't want their children to go to school with black kids and don't want to pay for the education of black kids. It's like that everywhere in the US.
Maybe segregation is a byproduct, but I don't think race is the motive in most situations.  I think the more likely explanation is that parents want to send their kids to "the best schools," which are (or are perceived to be) in affluent areas with large tax bases, and inevitably leads to the exclusion of less affluent demographics, including minorities.  In other words, I think a lot of these (very real) bad effects are born mostly out of self interest, not racism. 

there's a fine line between "self interest" and racism
I think there can be overlap at times, but I think in order to criticize an actor for a racist action, race should be at least contemplated by the actor.

In other words, I don't think buying a house in prairie village so your kids can go to Shawnee Mission East is racist.

It's punting on the problem. It's doing absolutely nothing to end the systematic racism issues. You want to do what's best for your family, fine I won't begrudge that. However, you can't turn around and get sensitive for someone pointing out that you're a part of the problem if you aren't doing anything tangible to fix it.

Also any action can be excused as well intentioned if you want to.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 12:59:51 PM

Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   

The continuance of the inequity is intentional. We have many many more people interested in whether or not they are viewed as a part of the problem than motivated to actually do anything about it.
Broadly speaking, we're going to disagree that the inequity is intentional, or at least a significant motivating factor.

But I'd certainly agree with your second sentence.  Out of curiosity, what would you have people do about it?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 01:08:30 PM

Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   

The continuance of the inequity is intentional. We have many many more people interested in whether or not they are viewed as a part of the problem than motivated to actually do anything about it.
Broadly speaking, we're going to disagree that the inequity is intentional, or at least a significant motivating factor.

But I'd certainly agree with your second sentence.  Out of curiosity, what would you have people do about it?

You don't think the inequity in this country isn't intentional? What are you attributing to its existence. What should be done? Something, anything. Rusty and I have already pointed out that our civil rights legislation in this country has been rendered functionally useless. They were basic human rights that have been, at best, not advanced, in some cases rolled back. Start by having frank conversations and actually listening to how POC feel about how they feel. We are the ones forced to live in the current system. I can hear a million people all over everywhere say what you're saying, until the advent of social media I couldn't hear anyone who thinks like I do. We need more people willing to do this as an absolute bear minimum.

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 01:22:48 PM

Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   

The continuance of the inequity is intentional. We have many many more people interested in whether or not they are viewed as a part of the problem than motivated to actually do anything about it.
Broadly speaking, we're going to disagree that the inequity is intentional, or at least a significant motivating factor.

But I'd certainly agree with your second sentence.  Out of curiosity, what would you have people do about it?

You don't think the inequity in this country isn't intentional? What are you attributing to its existence. What should be done? Something, anything. Rusty and I have already pointed out that our civil rights legislation in this country has been rendered functionally useless. They were basic human rights that have been, at best, not advanced, in some cases rolled back. Start by having frank conversations and actually listening to how POC feel about how they feel. We are the ones forced to live in the current system. I can hear a million people all over everywhere say what you're saying, until the advent of social media I couldn't hear anyone who thinks like I do. We need more people willing to do this as an absolute bear minimum.

Today, I think I'd attribute it mostly to the socioeconomic legacy of slavery and jim crow.  Because of those institutions, black people are generally poorer, and poor people generally have a rough go of it.   

I don't know what should be done, frankly.  To your point, talking and listening is pretty easy, and I do like having these conversations.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what could/should be done.  I've tried to do things in the past that were good uses of my privilege to benefit less fortunate people.  I think people ought to try and do that. 
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 01:47:30 PM
Where I live it's absurd how much better schools get (and how much property value increases) when you cross a street. At the same time, I'm not going to send my kid to a drastically underfunded school when I can afford to live on the good side of the street (which I think is dLew's point about self interest), because it isn't what's best for them and it really doesn't fix crap.

A pretty radical idea would be to outlaw private schools and eliminate local school districts, both of which extend the legacy of Jim Crow.  Fund all schools equitably from the federal or state level and aggressively reintroduce busing based on race and income. Sorta like medicare for all but for schools. white people would flip if that happened though. Maybe we can do that when I eliminate city boundaries in the bay area - go to a giant municipal government and school district at the same time.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Where I live it's absurd how much better schools get (and how much property value increases) when you cross a street. At the same time, I'm not going to send my kid to a drastically underfunded school when I can afford to live on the good side of the street (which I think is dLew's point about self interest), because it isn't what's best for them and it really doesn't fix crap.

A pretty radical idea would be to outlaw private schools and eliminate local school districts, both of which extend the legacy of Jim Crow.  Fund all schools equitably from the federal or state level and aggressively reintroduce busing based on race and income. Sorta like medicare for all but for schools. white people would flip if that happened though. Maybe we can do that when I eliminate city boundaries in the bay area - go to a giant municipal government and school district at the same time.
I think I'd agree with your idea about eliminating school districts (at least until someone comes in and tells me why it's a shitty idea that would lead to a bunch of problems I haven't thought of). 

I don't think I'd be on board with abolishing private schools.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on October 18, 2019, 01:55:41 PM
I think everyone would have better education if private schools didn't exist, including kids currently enrolled in private schools.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 01:56:11 PM
I don't think I'd be on board with abolishing private schools.

why?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: steve dave on October 18, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
I’m as privileged as anyone can possibly be and can confirm I’d flip if that happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 01:56:49 PM
I think everyone would have better education if private schools didn't exist, including kids currently enrolled in private schools.
Setting the constitutional issues aside here, why do you think this?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
I don't think I'd be on board with abolishing private schools.

why?
For one, if school districts are equitably funded, then what difference does the existence of private schools make? Two, I think it's reasonable for parents to seek a religious education for their children, and that can't happen in public schools.  And along those same lines, parents have a constitutionally protected right to send their kids to private schools.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on October 18, 2019, 02:03:21 PM
I think everyone would have better education if private schools didn't exist, including kids currently enrolled in private schools.
Setting the constitutional issues aside here, why do you think this?

Public schools have better financial resources. They can offer better pay, better technology, and better facilities than private schools. At least that is true in most areas within Kansas. I would assume in areas where that isn't true, the public school system doesn't get support from influential people who send their kids to private schools and has trouble securing adequate funding. That wouldn't happen without private schools.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 02:07:05 PM
I don't think I'd be on board with abolishing private schools.

why?
For one, if school districts are equitably funded, then what difference does the existence of private schools make? Two, I think it's reasonable for parents to seek a religious education for their children, and that can't happen in public schools.  And along those same lines, parents have a constitutionally protected right to send their kids to private schools.

Regarding your first point, look into the explosion of private schools in the south after desegregation became federally mandated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

Second point, parents can give their kids a religious education outside of school

Are private schools explicitly protected in the Constitution? I googled it quickly and I'm not a constitutional scholar but didn't see anything explicitly protecting them.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
I don't think I'd be on board with abolishing private schools.

why?
For one, if school districts are equitably funded, then what difference does the existence of private schools make? Two, I think it's reasonable for parents to seek a religious education for their children, and that can't happen in public schools.  And along those same lines, parents have a constitutionally protected right to send their kids to private schools.

Regarding your first point, look into the explosion of private schools in the south after desegregation became federally mandated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

Second point, parents can give their kids a religious education outside of school

Are private schools explicitly protected in the Constitution? I googled it quickly and I'm not a constitutional scholar but didn't see anything explicitly protecting them.
Making multiple points always fucks up threads, but:

1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.

2.  That's true, but I got at least 5 hours of religious education per week at school.  Supplementing that during non-school times isn't convenient, but point taken.

3.  Yeah -- at least that's what Supreme Court jurisprudence says: Pierce v. Society of Sisters - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_v._Society_of_Sisters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_v._Society_of_Sisters)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on October 18, 2019, 02:17:45 PM
I think you could eliminate tax exempt status of private schools and mostly fix the issue without violating the constitution. Put all of the taxes they pay into public schools.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 18, 2019, 02:24:09 PM
Totally off topic, but what curriculum do religious schools sacrifice to teach 5 hours of religion each week?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 02:24:54 PM
1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.[/url]

My thought is that the quality of public schools would suffer if all the rich kids with stable homes left and went to private schools, even if the public schools received better funding than they do now.

thanks for the info on that supreme court case
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 02:30:27 PM
Totally off topic, but what curriculum do religious schools sacrifice to teach 5 hours of religion each week?
:dunno:

I'm wondering what you guys did with the extra hour a day?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: resident LibBot dick holder on October 18, 2019, 02:32:02 PM
As soon as I posted that I figured it was probably in place of whatever worthless electives people take (all the cooking classes in my case)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 02:33:32 PM
1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.[/url]

My thought is that the quality of public schools would suffer if all the rich kids with stable homes left and went to private schools, even if the public schools received better funding than they do now.

thanks for the info on that supreme court case
Yeah, I don't see that being some enormous problem in our hypothetical world -- at least no bigger than it is currently in the real world.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 02:37:50 PM
1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.[/url]

My thought is that the quality of public schools would suffer if all the rich kids with stable homes left and went to private schools, even if the public schools received better funding than they do now.

thanks for the info on that supreme court case
Yeah, I don't see that being some enormous problem in our hypothetical world -- at least no bigger than it is currently in the real world.

I think it's a significant problem, or part of the problem, in the current real world. Urban schools definitely suffer because the majority of their wealthy students go to private schools (despite partially funding their local public schools). And I think it would become worse in the hypothetical.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: nicname on October 18, 2019, 03:07:37 PM
1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.[/url]

My thought is that the quality of public schools would suffer if all the rich kids with stable homes left and went to private schools, even if the public schools received better funding than they do now.

thanks for the info on that supreme court case
Yeah, I don't see that being some enormous problem in our hypothetical world -- at least no bigger than it is currently in the real world.

I think it's a significant problem, or part of the problem, in the current real world. Urban schools definitely suffer because the majority of their wealthy students go to private schools (despite partially funding their local public schools). And I think it would become worse in the hypothetical.

But would enough of them still if they were actually good schools? I guess that's the rub. And would it matter for the students in the now better public schools if they did?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 03:07:51 PM

Right.  I don't think anybody here (at least in these last few posts) is denying that systemic racism has existed and continues to exist, which leads to horrible and unfair outcomes for black people.  We largely agree on the existence, causes and effects of the problem.  I can only speak for myself, though I imagine 8man and Spracne would agree, but the issue was you ascribing White America's (as vague as that concept is) supposed evil characteristic to something that is innate, which seems completely absurd.   

The continuance of the inequity is intentional. We have many many more people interested in whether or not they are viewed as a part of the problem than motivated to actually do anything about it.
Broadly speaking, we're going to disagree that the inequity is intentional, or at least a significant motivating factor.

But I'd certainly agree with your second sentence.  Out of curiosity, what would you have people do about it?

You don't think the inequity in this country isn't intentional? What are you attributing to its existence. What should be done? Something, anything. Rusty and I have already pointed out that our civil rights legislation in this country has been rendered functionally useless. They were basic human rights that have been, at best, not advanced, in some cases rolled back. Start by having frank conversations and actually listening to how POC feel about how they feel. We are the ones forced to live in the current system. I can hear a million people all over everywhere say what you're saying, until the advent of social media I couldn't hear anyone who thinks like I do. We need more people willing to do this as an absolute bear minimum.

Today, I think I'd attribute it mostly to the socioeconomic legacy of slavery and jim crow.  Because of those institutions, black people are generally poorer, and poor people generally have a rough go of it.   

I don't know what should be done, frankly.  To your point, talking and listening is pretty easy, and I do like having these conversations.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what could/should be done.  I've tried to do things in the past that were good uses of my privilege to benefit less fortunate people.  I think people ought to try and do that.

There's a lot that can be done but it would require radical changes that y'all aren't willing to do. For starters, the 40 Acres and a mule that we were promised. Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms. We have presidential candidates promising to give everyone a dividend, hell Alaska is currently doing so, but no one willing to give any type of reparations.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 03:13:57 PM


1. I guess I'm lost.  I agreed with you that let's abolish school districts so geography isn't a factor in school funding.  If people choose to send their kids to a different school, while still contributing to the equitable funding of public schools, then I'm nto sure what difference it makes.  I don't foresee people opting out of legitimately well funded schools on the basis of race -- at least not in the current climate.  This would test my theory that these days, decisions are largely made out of self-interest rather than race.[/url]

My thought is that the quality of public schools would suffer if all the rich kids with stable homes left and went to private schools, even if the public schools received better funding than they do now.

thanks for the info on that supreme court case
Yeah, I don't see that being some enormous problem in our hypothetical world -- at least no bigger than it is currently in the real world.

I think it's a significant problem, or part of the problem, in the current real world. Urban schools definitely suffer because the majority of their wealthy students go to private schools (despite partially funding their local public schools). And I think it would become worse in the hypothetical.

But would enough of them still if they were actually good schools? I guess that's the rub. And would it matter for the students in the now better public schools if they did?

I think you'd see a decrease in private school enrollment in suburban areas but an increase in Urban areas. The scale of the private enrollment//flight would determine if it mattered.

Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 03:14:43 PM
And doesn't Liz endorse reparations?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 03:20:23 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: michigancat on October 18, 2019, 03:24:51 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.

why do you think politicians aren't really discussing those things, even on the far left?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
And doesn't Liz endorse reparations?

Yes
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 03:32:19 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.

why do you think politicians aren't really discussing those things, even on the far left?
I think they are though.  A number of them even back reparations.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 03:32:32 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.

Clearly not enough to change anything, at all. Take solace in the fact that you're one of the good ones though. Doesn't do diddly crap but to help you all sleep better at night.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 18, 2019, 03:35:24 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.

why do you think politicians aren't really discussing those things, even on the far left?
I think they are though.  A number of them even back reparations.

So they're talking but not acting? You're doing a very poor job showing that the inequity isn't intentional. Voting rights, criminal justice reform, and income distribution has unquestionably gone backwards as we're being told that we're advancing.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Dlew12 on October 18, 2019, 03:42:59 PM
Y'all aren't even willing to stop segregation, stop gerrymandering, fairly fund schools, and make actual criminal justice reforms.
Who is "y'all" here?  These are pretty mainstream positions held by millions and millions of "inherently evil" white people.

why do you think politicians aren't really discussing those things, even on the far left?
I think they are though.  A number of them even back reparations.

So they're talking but not acting? You're doing a very poor job showing that the inequity isn't intentional. Voting rights, criminal justice reform, and income distribution has unquestionably gone backwards as we're being told that we're advancing.
The election isn’t until Nov. 2020.

Im just trying to understand where you’re coming from here, but you’re a Liz guy, aren’t you? How do you reconcile these positions you hold with her inability (or refusal?!) to fix this?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: SkinnyBenny on October 19, 2019, 04:37:26 PM
I thought SB lived in New Orleans.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sys on October 19, 2019, 07:56:30 PM
but no one willing to give any type of reparations.

you criticized beto for advocating for reparations following the 3rd debate.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on October 20, 2019, 12:16:40 AM
but no one willing to give any type of reparations.

you criticized beto for advocating for reparations following the 3rd debate.

lmao
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2019, 12:36:41 AM
but no one willing to give any type of reparations.

you criticized beto for advocating for reparations following the 3rd debate.

No, I mocked him for saying that it would fix systemic racism. Your larger point stands though.

Here are the candidates we care about and their support of reparations:
Supporting: Beto, Warren, Booker, tiny Julian
Not supporting: The Police (SMDH), Sanders, Sleepy Joe, BotEdgeEdge, lil Klo, I'm putting Hawaiian MAGA on here even though she co sponsored HB 40, I can't find a single quote from her advocating for reparations.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on October 20, 2019, 12:42:05 AM
none of the people that support reparations actually support a bill for reparations, they support a blue ribbon panel studying the issue.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2019, 12:44:35 AM
none of the people that support reparations actually support a bill for reparations, they support a blue ribbon panel studying the issue.

That's 100% untrue. Everyone on that list have been quoted as supporting reparations, it's exactly why I didn't put Gabbard on the list.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: gatoveintisiete on October 20, 2019, 01:00:31 AM
While on a trip to vegas with some friends we met some pro poker players one night at a restaurant.  While talking with them the subject of how good you have to be to win as a pro came up, after some fun debate a prop bet was born where my friend played a pro heads up starting with a  20 to 1 chip ratio advantage, he lost all the chips back.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: treysolid on October 20, 2019, 01:15:21 AM
While on a trip to vegas with some friends we met some pro poker players one night at a restaurant.  While talking with them the subject of how good you have to be to win as a pro came up, after some fun debate a prop bet was born where my friend played a pro heads up starting with a  20 to 1 chip ratio advantage, he lost all the chips back.

Is your point that if the govt gives reparations to black people that they'll just give it all back to white people?
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: gatoveintisiete on October 20, 2019, 01:22:37 AM
While on a trip to vegas with some friends we met some pro poker players one night at a restaurant.  While talking with them the subject of how good you have to be to win as a pro came up, after some fun debate a prop bet was born where my friend played a pro heads up starting with a  20 to 1 chip ratio advantage, he lost all the chips back.

Is your point that if the govt gives reparations to black people that they'll just give it all back to white people?

no
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: treysolid on October 20, 2019, 01:25:20 AM
then your story is even more banal than i assumed it was
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Trim on October 20, 2019, 01:38:46 AM
BotEdgeEdge

:lol:
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2019, 02:01:10 AM
BotEdgeEdge

:lol:

Wanted to call him The Manchurian Candidate but figured that was too inside
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Kat Kid on October 20, 2019, 03:28:26 PM
none of the people that support reparations actually support a bill for reparations, they support a blue ribbon panel studying the issue.

That's 100% untrue. Everyone on that list have been quoted as supporting reparations, it's exactly why I didn't put Gabbard on the list.

here is the legislation.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Rep+Jackson+Lee+Sheila+TX18%22%2C%22Rep+Jackson+Lee+Sheila+TX18%22%5D%7D (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Rep+Jackson+Lee+Sheila+TX18%22%2C%22Rep+Jackson+Lee+Sheila+TX18%22%5D%7D)
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: Institutional Control on October 20, 2019, 08:18:51 PM
Would someone with, say, 1% Congo in their 23 and Me be eligible for reparations? Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sys on October 20, 2019, 09:54:32 PM
here is the legislation.

i think mir's point is that those candidates have indicated in some fashion that they personally believe that reparations of some sort are necessary and would be just, even though they haven't written or sponsored legislation to enact reparations.

i'm sure all of them know that no reparations bill would pass either body of congress in the next four years.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: sys on October 20, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
No, I mocked him for saying that it would fix systemic racism. Your larger point stands though.

BotEdgeEdge

it's hard to get into a lot of nuance in 90 seconds.  botedgeedge is great.
Title: Re: Baton Rouge
Post by: MakeItRain on October 20, 2019, 10:37:32 PM
here is the legislation.

i think mir's point is that those candidates have indicated in some fashion that they personally believe that reparations of some sort are necessary and would be just, even though they haven't written or sponsored legislation to enact reparations.

i'm sure all of them know that no reparations bill would pass either body of congress in the next four years.

Yep

No, I mocked him for saying that it would fix systemic racism. Your larger point stands though.

BotEdgeEdge

it's hard to get into a lot of nuance in 90 seconds.

Right again, I was too harsh.