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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: Ptolemy on March 23, 2016, 01:06:39 AM
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I thought Al Bohl set the standard for Athletic Director incompetence with his "crush me like a dove" presser in his driveway.
But John Currie topped that without uttering a word.
When Jack Hartman ran KState basketball, we were equal with KU. The two programs were about even. They threw hot dogs. We threw bananas. Then came Larry Brown/Roy Williams vs. Tom Asbury/Jim Wooldridge. A dark time for KSU basketball.
We were lost, for a long time, until Tim Weiser stepped up and hired Bob Huggins who took Jack Hartman student Brad Underwood under his tutelage.
Huggs went home after year 1 but left us Frank Martin, who kept Underwood on the staff. It proved to be a valued team. When Frank's offense suffered, Brad stepped up and fixed it. KState saw consistent NCAA tournaments and an Elite 8.
Then came Currie.
Frank soon departed for more supportive environs, Brad underwing, and Currie hired oscar Weber, who was just fired from Illinois. Can't tell you why.
Underwood moved from South Carolina to Texas, finally a chance to run his own program. That program went to 4 straight conference championships and multiple NCAA tourney berths which was unprecedented for the program.
After a close loss in 2016 to nationally ranked Notre Dame, Underwood finds himself so close, but so far away to the program that his mentor, Jack, prepared him long ago to lead.
Would that call come?
It would not.
A call did come. It was from rival Big 12 school, and Jack Hartman's alma mater, Oklahoma State. They were interested in hiring Jack Hartman's pupil.
Kansas State and their AD John Currie never made a call, not even to inquire about interest.
go kstate
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I thought Al Bohl set the standard for Athletic Director incompetence with his "crush me like a dove" presser in his driveway.
But John Currie topped that without uttering a word.
When Jack Hartman ran KState basketball, we were equal with KU. The two programs were about even. They threw hot dogs. We threw bananas. Then came Larry Brown/Roy Williams vs. Tom Asbury/Jim Wooldridge. A dark time for KSU basketball.
We were lost, for a long time, until Tim Weiser stepped up and hired Bob Huggins who took Jack Hartman student Brad Underwood under his tutelage.
Huggs went home after year 1 but left us Frank Martin, who kept Underwood on the staff. It proved to be a valued team. When Frank's offense suffered, Brad stepped up and fixed it. KState saw consistent NCAA tournaments and an Elite 8.
Then came Currie.
Frank soon departed for more supportive environs, Brad underwing, and Currie hired oscar Weber, who was just fired from Illinois. Can't tell you why.
Underwood moved from South Carolina to Texas, finally a chance to run his own program. That program went to 4 straight conference championships and multiple NCAA tourney berths which was unprecedented for the program.
After a close loss in 2016 to nationally ranked Notre Dame, Underwood finds himself so close, but so far away to the program that his mentor, Jack, prepared him long ago to lead.
Would that call come?
It would not.
A call did come. It was from rival Big 12 school, and Jack Hartman's alma mater, Oklahoma State. They were interested in hiring Jack Hartman's pupil.
Kansas State and their AD John Currie never made a call, not even to inquire about interest.
go kstate
Thanks.... I guess?
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Its simple.
Currie stuck with his hire. I think there is the "safe hire" aspect to all this that has been discussed plenty here, but I also believe Currie truly thinks his best option (short and long term) is oscar Weber as his basketball coach. He believes in the young team mantra and is giving him a 2nd year after he rebuilt his roster. Currie's reputation as an AD will take a major hit if or when oscar continues to fail, but it probably isn't enough to get him fired. That said, Currie's peak time to leave for a different (or better) AD job (at least to a school that values high level basketball) is quickly slipping away, so this still has to have some importance to them.
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Its simple.
Currie stuck with his hire. I think there is the "safe hire" aspect to all this that has been discussed plenty here, but I also believe Currie truly thinks his best option (short and long term) is oscar Weber as his basketball coach. He believes in the young team mantra and is giving him a 2nd year after he rebuilt his roster. Currie's reputation as an AD will take a major hit if or when oscar continues to fail, but it probably isn't enough to get him fired. That said, Currie's peak time to leave for a different (or better) AD job (at least to a school that values high level basketball) is quickly slipping away, so this still has to have some importance to them.
Yes. This is why Currie needs to be fired.
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Its simple.
Currie stuck with his hire. I think there is the "safe hire" aspect to all this that has been discussed plenty here, but I also believe Currie truly thinks his best option (short and long term) is oscar Weber as his basketball coach. He believes in the young team mantra and is giving him a 2nd year after he rebuilt his roster. Currie's reputation as an AD will take a major hit if or when oscar continues to fail, but it probably isn't enough to get him fired. That said, Currie's peak time to leave for a different (or better) AD job (at least to a school that values high level basketball) is quickly slipping away, so this still has to have some importance to them.
currie knows that oscar is his best option in the short term and hopes that he is the best option for the long term.
currie is smart enough to know that he can't fire a coach that's gotten his team into the ncaa 2/4 years and won the conference champ. because if he did, currie's rep as an AD would take a hit. because he'd look like an idiot. it doesn't matter that brad underwood became a hot name in coaching, makes no difference to the situation we're in at k-state.
currie doesn't want to fire anyone. doing so makes his job much harder. currie hopes that oscar works out here, he hired the guy. but we have no reason to believe he won't act on oscar if oscar doesn't produce. the best way for currie to protect his job is to be successful in what he does. whether or not people here want to admit it, he has been.
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currie knows that oscar is his best option in the short term and hopes that he is the best option for the long term.
currie is smart enough to know that he can't fire a coach that's gotten his team into the ncaa 2/4 years and won the conference champ. because if he did, currie's rep as an AD would take a hit. because he'd look like an idiot. it doesn't matter that brad underwood became a hot name in coaching, makes no difference to the situation we're in at k-state.
currie doesn't want to fire anyone. doing so makes his job much harder. currie hopes that oscar works out here, he hired the guy. but we have no reason to believe he won't act on oscar if oscar doesn't produce. the best way for currie to protect his job is to be successful in what he does. whether or not people here want to admit it, he has been.
Reasonable.
But I assume you still hate oscar. You've indicated that and that people should not attend games in the past.
Also, oscar must produce in the short term.
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How can Currie market himself to the next school with the two dumpster fires we have for coaching staffs in the only two sports that matter?
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currie knows that oscar is his best option in the short term and hopes that he is the best option for the long term.
currie is smart enough to know that he can't fire a coach that's gotten his team into the ncaa 2/4 years and won the conference champ. because if he did, currie's rep as an AD would take a hit. because he'd look like an idiot. it doesn't matter that brad underwood became a hot name in coaching, makes no difference to the situation we're in at k-state.
currie doesn't want to fire anyone. doing so makes his job much harder. currie hopes that oscar works out here, he hired the guy. but we have no reason to believe he won't act on oscar if oscar doesn't produce. the best way for currie to protect his job is to be successful in what he does. whether or not people here want to admit it, he has been.
Reasonable.
But I assume you still hate oscar. You've indicated that and that people should not attend games in the past.
Also, oscar must produce in the short term.
i do hate oscar. my personal feelings for him have nothing to do with the very real idea of whether or not he deserves to be fired. because ultimately, yes, oscar has to produce. short term and long. that determines his fate. i happen to think he will produce in the short term (next year). i don't think he will produce in the long term, at least not to my expectations. thankfully, for him, his future isn't being determined by a bunch of hyper emotional message board fans.
i think he will eventually be canned. i don't support him and don't think others should either, so i advocate that people don't go to games. the easiest way for all of us to get our point across to currie is financially. but again, skipping games/support is just one facet to it all because despite my silent protest, if this team were to win 25 games next season, a lot of the same vocal posters here will be back on the bandwagon.
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i do hate oscar. my personal feelings for him have nothing to do with the very real idea of whether or not he deserves to be fired. because ultimately, yes, oscar has to produce. short term and long. that determines his fate. i happen to think he will produce in the short term (next year). i don't think he will produce in the long term, at least not to my expectations. thankfully, for him, his future isn't being determined by a bunch of hyper emotional message board fans.
i think he will eventually be canned. i don't support him and don't think others should either, so i advocate that people don't go to games. the easiest way for all of us to get our point across to currie is financially. but again, skipping games/support is just one facet to it all because despite my silent protest, if this team were to win 25 games next season, a lot of the same vocal posters here will be back on the bandwagon.
Fair enough.
I won't lie, if we finish in the upper half of the league, safely make it into the NCAA tournament, and win a game there next year I will be relatively on board. I will never fully buy into oscar, but he can still win back some support from me.
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i think rick daris said it best when he said that it's impossible to buy into oscar, but when he wins, all his annoying crap becomes just barely tolerable. when he loses, it's like an electron microscope was flipped on and every stupid thing he's done is magnified.
the same can be said about all coaches, but all coaches don't do as much annoying crap as oscar.
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Very accurate. With high amounts of success he could possibly "our lovable weird coach", but that's his ceiling. Going back and watching his motivational pregame videos is painful, especially considering in one of them he's coaching a team playing in the national title game. Its impossible to get past stuff like that.
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As much as i'm a proponent of voting with your feet in most aspects of life, _fan's chart pointed out that the message, at least in recent KState history, would fall on deaf ears.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=37424.msg1540546#msg1540546 (http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=37424.msg1540546#msg1540546)
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How can Currie market himself to the next school with the two dumpster fires we have for coaching staffs in the only two sports that matter?
Well, he has nothing to do with one of them. So that's first for starters.
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One doesn't look dumpster fire'ey to most people.
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How can Currie market himself to the next school with the two dumpster fires we have for coaching staffs in the only two sports that matter?
Well, he has nothing to do with one of them. So that's first for starters.
And if he's implying football, its another matter all together. The coach is a HOF legend who has won a conference title within the last 5 seasons and finished in the top 20 just 2 years ago. If that's a dumpster fire program I'm not sure you can ever be happy as a K-State fan.
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i do hate oscar. my personal feelings for him have nothing to do with the very real idea of whether or not he deserves to be fired. because ultimately, yes, oscar has to produce. short term and long. that determines his fate. i happen to think he will produce in the short term (next year). i don't think he will produce in the long term, at least not to my expectations. thankfully, for him, his future isn't being determined by a bunch of hyper emotional message board fans.
i think he will eventually be canned. i don't support him and don't think others should either, so i advocate that people don't go to games. the easiest way for all of us to get our point across to currie is financially. but again, skipping games/support is just one facet to it all because despite my silent protest, if this team were to win 25 games next season, a lot of the same vocal posters here will be back on the bandwagon.
Fair enough.
I won't lie, if we finish in the upper half of the league, safely make it into the NCAA tournament, and win a game there next year I will be relatively on board. I will never fully buy into oscar, but he can still win back some support from me.
You are a smart fan than that. You and I know damn well that oscar will be in the top half, maybe top 3rd simply because of being in a lucky situation with rest of the league losing a crap load of talent, most of our valuable players coming back with more experience, and new coaches at 2 spots (its going to take Undie and Dixon a year or two just to rebuild a la Tubby's job at Tech). oscar would have to majorly eff up in order to miss out on a "successful" season and that is what is most dangerous. He is going to do well enough that people will give him another 3ish years and we'll see mediocre results.
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Also, basketball trajectory is possibly heading that way, but we haven't reached dumpster fire status yet. Years 4-6 of Wooly were hitting dumpster fire status for K-State basketball.
Granted, no one should be happy with where we are at, but defining either program as being a dumpster fire is silly. Rutgers basketball is dumpster fire. KU football is dumpster fire.
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Yeah Captain Crap has made the point that we were in the top 10 as recently as 2014 in football. The program needs to improve again but its no dumpster fire
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This is why. Currie wasn't paying attention because he didn't think he had to and others were. I wonder if Currie even watched the Notre Dame game?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/osusportsextra/t--boone-pickens-supports-osu-s-brad-underwood-hiring-and-says-dou/article_b587a52d-ac72-5ce4-898e-83af12cd661d.html
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I bet he did and he knows exactly how many times Pastrana stood up and that directly effected his decision.
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i do hate oscar. my personal feelings for him have nothing to do with the very real idea of whether or not he deserves to be fired. because ultimately, yes, oscar has to produce. short term and long. that determines his fate. i happen to think he will produce in the short term (next year). i don't think he will produce in the long term, at least not to my expectations. thankfully, for him, his future isn't being determined by a bunch of hyper emotional message board fans.
i think he will eventually be canned. i don't support him and don't think others should either, so i advocate that people don't go to games. the easiest way for all of us to get our point across to currie is financially. but again, skipping games/support is just one facet to it all because despite my silent protest, if this team were to win 25 games next season, a lot of the same vocal posters here will be back on the bandwagon.
Fair enough.
I won't lie, if we finish in the upper half of the league, safely make it into the NCAA tournament, and win a game there next year I will be relatively on board. I will never fully buy into oscar, but he can still win back some support from me.
You are a smart fan than that. You and I know damn well that oscar will be in the top half, maybe top 3rd simply because of being in a lucky situation with rest of the league losing a crap load of talent, most of our valuable players coming back with more experience, and new coaches at 2 spots (its going to take Undie and Dixon a year or two just to rebuild a la Tubby's job at Tech). oscar would have to majorly eff up in order to miss out on a "successful" season and that is what is most dangerous. He is going to do well enough that people will give him another 3ish years and we'll see mediocre results.
MAYBE!
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The part that really frustrated me was the response from Kirk about attendance/money and the lack of any reasonable response from Currie. I laid none of this at Kirk's doorstep until his tone deaf comments. Pretty annoying for him to tell the fanbase to eff off on twitter while he fields complaints about Waters 221 being too warm for a student. Maybe I was being naive, but it just shows how patronizing his whole charade is. Currie needed to at least say something about the season being disappointing or an expectation for improvement, but he refuses to. Given his past ability to admit mistakes, this is not surprising.
As I'm sure Kirk and Currie know, looking purely at attendance is a bullshit metric. Although ticket sales may have only slipped slightly, there is no way that the basketball games bring in near the revenue when factoring in the price of the seat, much less concessions that require people to show up. There was no need for bargain bin promotions during Frank's tenure.
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I do have to laugh at the arrogance of Gottlieb thinking he deserves a shot at coaching a P5 school without any coaching experience. This also shows that he would have just used K-State as a quick stepping stone to get to OSU if he had any success here.
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Yeah, if he was serious he would have looked into an assistant job somewhere after we turned him down. I don't think he will ever headcoach P5 for that reason.
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Given his past ability to admit mistakes, this is not surprising.
just wondering- what specifically are you referring to?
it doesn't really seem like SOP for AD's (or any other profession) to highlight mistakes they've made but maybe i'm wrong.
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Also, basketball trajectory is possibly heading that way, but we haven't reached dumpster fire status yet. Years 4-6 of Wooly were hitting dumpster fire status for K-State basketball.
Granted, no one should be happy with where we are at, but defining either program as being a dumpster fire is silly. Rutgers basketball is dumpster fire. KU football is dumpster fire.
Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree. But I think running off a coach who was at an E8 for nothing more than a personality conflict (no major ncaa violations), an AD who was brought in for transparency and hires a re-tread in an opaque search, said loser coach has to burn his own team down after year 3 because of "rampant drug use" is pretty dumpster-y to me. We're not in full blown dumpster fire I guess, but there is a lot of smoke an some smoldering in the corner. The people watch the dumpster are waiving their hands hoping all the smoke goes away while a few smart people are questioning whether or not to get a fire extinguisher.
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Given his past ability to admit mistakes, this is not surprising.
just wondering- what specifically are you referring to?
it doesn't really seem like SOP for AD's (or any other profession) to highlight mistakes they've made but maybe i'm wrong.
Leti - I could be wrong, but when an AD denies a transfer, they usually end up ruling out a couple of teams and then allowing the athlete to go. He held on until it became a national story and then tried to rule out dozens of teams, IIRC. The amount of mishandling involved in what had clearly become a no-win situation was mind boggling.
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Also, basketball trajectory is possibly heading that way, but we haven't reached dumpster fire status yet. Years 4-6 of Wooly were hitting dumpster fire status for K-State basketball.
Granted, no one should be happy with where we are at, but defining either program as being a dumpster fire is silly. Rutgers basketball is dumpster fire. KU football is dumpster fire.
Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree. But I think running off a coach who was at an E8 for nothing more than a personality conflict (no major ncaa violations), an AD who was brought in for transparency and hires a re-tread in an opaque search, said loser coach has to burn his own team down after year 3 because of "rampant drug use" is pretty dumpster-y to me. We're not in full blown dumpster fire I guess, but there is a lot of smoke an some smoldering in the corner. The people watch the dumpster are waiving their hands hoping all the smoke goes away while a few smart people are questioning whether or not to get a fire extinguisher.
You just said it's likely we could finish in the top 3 in the league next year. I get the oscar hate, most of it justified, but if a coach has a team in the top 3 of a P5 league in his 5th season, there isn't even dumpster fire smoke.
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Given his past ability to admit mistakes, this is not surprising.
just wondering- what specifically are you referring to?
it doesn't really seem like SOP for AD's (or any other profession) to highlight mistakes they've made but maybe i'm wrong.
Leti - I could be wrong, but when an AD denies a transfer, they usually end up ruling out a couple of teams and then allowing the athlete to go. He held on until it became a national story and then tried to rule out dozens of teams, IIRC. The amount of mishandling involved in what had clearly become a no-win situation was mind boggling.
ya that was really bad. i don't blame him for not getting on stage and admitting how poorly it was handled, but ya, bad.
hopefully he learned from his mistake. seemed to go smoother with the brucexodus.
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What are the odds that Currie congratulates "...KSU alum..." Brad Underwood on the head coaching position at our "sister school" Oklahoma State in his next letter?
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What are the odds that Currie congratulates "...KSU alum..." Brad Underwood on the head coaching position at our "sister school" Oklahoma State in his next letter?
He absolutely will.
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How can Currie market himself to the next school with the two dumpster fires we have for coaching staffs in the only two sports that matter?
Well, he has nothing to do with one of them. So that's first for starters.
And if he's implying football, its another matter all together. The coach is a HOF legend who has won a conference title within the last 5 seasons and finished in the top 20 just 2 years ago. If that's a dumpster fire program I'm not sure you can ever be happy as a K-State fan.
Currie's issue with football, if the rumors are true, is that he meddles too much in football and doesn't let the HOF coach do his job. Again if the rumors are true, Currie has blocked two different assistants from coming here in the last 3 or 4 years.
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Currie's issue with football, if the rumors are true, is that he meddles too much in football and doesn't let the HOF coach do his job. Again if the rumors are true, Currie has blocked two different assistants from coming here in the last 3 or 4 years.
Much as I'd like to believe that as being in character with Currie's massive ego (notice how he's NEVER self-deprecating in interviews - Snyder does that often. Inability to criticize yourself is a true sign of an over-inflated ego), I would also like to believe that Bill would step-up and say something publicly. I understand why Frank never said anything about Currie directly - he has a coaching future to think of and other AD's would not look kindly on a coach that betrays their supervisors. But Snyder isn't going to work for any other AD's or UP's, so he has nothing to lose. If Currie sticks his nosey nose into Bill's assistant coach hiring, Snyder would do something or say something to let that information out.
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currie is like the shithead kid that is always sneaking and doing crappy stuff but whose parent (fAnimal) never notices/acknowledges it and believes whatever excuse craphead kid gives to him when people are upset.
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Do you think K-State fans would embrace oscar like Royals fans did with Hud if we were winning tons of games?
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probably
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Do you think K-State fans would embrace oscar like Royals fans did with Hud if we were winning tons of games?
Of course. The line between lovable dork and loser dork is just wins and losses really. He was mainly lovable that first year in spite of the KU losses until we lost to La Salle.
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When did Hud become a coach for the Royals?
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currie is such a bad boss that he's essentially had zero turnover on his entire athletic dept staff minus one notable exception.
i mean rumors are great and all because why not?
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Do you think K-State fans would embrace oscar like Royals fans did with Hud if we were winning tons of games?
Ned would probably be a better comparo.
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this is the appropriate response to any 'lemy post. the rest of you are idiots.
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When did Hud become a coach for the Royals?
I was just trying to think of an odd bird that was universally disliked at first and then universally loved now.
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You just said it's likely we could finish in the top 3 in the league next year.
3rd in the big 12 is over this team's ceiling.
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Also, basketball trajectory is possibly heading that way, but we haven't reached dumpster fire status yet. Years 4-6 of Wooly were hitting dumpster fire status for K-State basketball.
Granted, no one should be happy with where we are at, but defining either program as being a dumpster fire is silly. Rutgers basketball is dumpster fire. KU football is dumpster fire.
Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree. But I think running off a coach who was at an E8 for nothing more than a personality conflict (no major ncaa violations), an AD who was brought in for transparency and hires a re-tread in an opaque search, said loser coach has to burn his own team down after year 3 because of "rampant drug use" is pretty dumpster-y to me. We're not in full blown dumpster fire I guess, but there is a lot of smoke an some smoldering in the corner. The people watch the dumpster are waiving their hands hoping all the smoke goes away while a few smart people are questioning whether or not to get a fire extinguisher.
You just said it's likely we could finish in the top 3 in the league next year. I get the oscar hate, most of it justified, but if a coach has a team in the top 3 of a P5 league in his 5th season, there isn't even dumpster fire smoke.
No I said top half was likely, maybe if things fall right top third. But I qualified that with a very realistic path that the rest of the league goes down, while he marginally improves. I think we all recognize he has some pieces (Wade, Stokes, etc). No whether or not he gets in the way of that success is another thing. More importantly it's a brief blip of success that his track record shows he can't maintain. It's Illinois 08-09 redux and enough for many of our fans to think there is a light flickering at the end of the tunnel.
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When did Hud become a coach for the Royals?
I was just trying to think of an odd bird that was universally disliked at first and then universally loved now.
I liked Hud from day 1.
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Being good is the goal. Wiener bland is good. Oscar nice is good. Good enough for Curdog, but not for rabid fans. I have no doubt 6th place in the big12 next year is realistic and a 12 seed is possible. I want our aspirations to be higher than midget level where our nose is always at either butt or groin level of others.
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Of course. The line between lovable dork and loser dork is just wins and losses really. He was mainly lovable that first year in spite of the KU losses until we lost to La Salle.
oscar was a lovable tolerable dork up until the time he went to great effort in the court storming to protect Bill Self from getting squashed by the students. Let Self get squashed and have to fight his own way out. I've hated his face ever since.
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Do you think K-State fans would embrace oscar like Royals fans did with Hud if we were winning tons of games?
Yes, the number one terrible thing oscar does is suck crap at coaching basketball.
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I don't think I would ever want to grab a beer with oscar but I would be ok with him coaching my favorite team if he won enough. I think I would want to grab a beer with Ned anyway, but more so because of his winning.
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I bet curry had never had a drink in his life
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I bet curry had never had a drink in his life
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He has. It's awkward.
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Rum and coke, beer, or wine
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
I hope people appreciate how good these little nuggets are.
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I know a lot of stuff about stuff
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Do you think K-State fans would embrace oscar like Royals fans did with Hud if we were winning tons of games?
Of course. The line between lovable dork and loser dork is just wins and losses really. He was mainly lovable that first year in spite of the KU losses until we lost to La Salle.
I was pretty sour on the hire but would classify myself as thinking he was a loveable dork by the end of it. But after he threw Angel under the bus in the post conference for the La Salle, I knew he'd never fit in here.
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
Smokes cigs
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
You need to read the submarine thread (top 10 thread on goEMAW)
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
You need to read the submarine thread (top 10 thread on goEMAW)
Thanks - quite entertaining.
Disappointed though that burning heaters is just cigs...thought it might be some new sex thing. :Crybaby:
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
You need to read the submarine thread (top 10 thread on goEMAW)
Thanks - quite entertaining.
Disappointed though that burning heaters is just cigs...thought it might be some new sex thing. :Crybaby:
With Oscar?
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His wife burns heaters when drunk. She has a bit of sorority girl left in her.
What is "burns heaters?"
I'm old.
You need to read the submarine thread (top 10 thread on goEMAW)
Thanks - quite entertaining.
Disappointed though that burning heaters is just cigs...thought it might be some new sex thing. :Crybaby:
With Oscar?
shut up, clowns.
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i think rick daris said it best when he said that it's impossible to buy into oscar, but when he wins, all his annoying crap becomes just barely tolerable. when he loses, it's like an electron microscope was flipped on and every stupid thing he's done is magnified.
the same can be said about all coaches, but all coaches don't do as much annoying crap as oscar.
the word. he can grease the wheels for me but nothing will ever make me like the guy.
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Are we still mad about Brad going to OSU?
Will he get his first big 12 win vs oscar next week?
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I hope so
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Are we still mad about Brad going to OSU?
Will he get his first big 12 win vs oscar next week?
He might get his first b12 win tonight.
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sad, mostly.
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Sending Brad to 0-6 in conference play would really confuse a lot of cat fans.
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Sending Brad to 0-6 in conference play would really confuse a lot of cat fans.
not normal ones
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Sending Brad to 0-6 in conference play would really confuse a lot of cat fans.
not normal ones
how should normal cat fans feel about it if brad were to go 0-6?
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Well they should feel happy that the cats got a win on the road and give two shits less what some other guys record is coaching another team. :th_twocents:
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Man, the meltdown if Brad gets his first conference win against oscar.............
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Well they should feel happy that the cats got a win on the road and give two shits less what some other guys record is coaching another team. :th_twocents:
but he's not some other guy, he's former ksu coach and forever wildcat brad "the bad" underwood.
we win, we win. we lose, we win.
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go brad, go.
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If Underwood were to leave for another Big 12 school, he would owe Oklahoma State between $6 million if it comes before March 31, 2018, $5 million before March 31, 2020, and $4 million if it's before March 31, 2021. All of Underwood's buyout figures are reduced by 50 percent if Mike Holder is no longer athletic director.
Would Currie write that check?
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If Underwood were to leave for another Big 12 school, he would owe Oklahoma State between $6 million if it comes before March 31, 2018, $5 million before March 31, 2020, and $4 million if it's before March 31, 2021. All of Underwood's buyout figures are reduced by 50 percent if Mike Holder is no longer athletic director.
Would Currie write that check?
he didn't write it last year when it was a shitload smaller, so prolly not.
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Underwood would have to agree for him to do it.
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Paying a $6 million buyout for Brad Underwood is the stupidest idea I've ever heard, whether he agrees or not. I wouldn't pay a $6 million buyout for Jay Wright.
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I would.
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It's almost like okie state put that big buyout in to prevent Kstate from hiring undy.
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I doubt Brad would work for John.
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I wouldn't pay a $6 million buyout for Jay Wright.
seriously? i'd do it in a heartbeat. no brainer.
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no we don't pay $6m buyout for underwood
think about it- $1.8m per year that we pay oscar and add $1m per year of the $6m buyout over a 6 year contract, coach's comp is $2.8m per year.
that's more than jay wright currently makes
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I wouldn't pay a $6 million buyout for Jay Wright.
(https://17245-presscdn-0-4-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/jaywrghte.jpg)
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no we don't pay $6m buyout for underwood
think about it- $1.8m per year that we pay oscar and add $1m per year of the $6m buyout over a 6 year contract, coach's comp is $2.8m per year.
that's more than jay wright currently makes
oscar is currently at $2.05 mil.
$1.05 mil more than Brad is making this year.
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wiki has him at 1.85 i didn't care enough to look beyond that
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would be the best money kstate could spend.
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at that level of $ there are a lot of options which are less risky
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at that level of $ there are a lot of options which are less risky
there are zero options less risky (for kstate).
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He can bring his new friends along with him too. Decent first class for his first P5 job.
https://oklahomastate.rivals.com/commitments/basketball/2017
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I wouldn't pay a $6 million buyout for Jay Wright.
seriously? i'd do it in a heartbeat. no brainer.
He's fantastic at Villanova, he's one of my favorite college basketball coaches. For a $6 million buyout then another $3/year contract, he'd need to be the surest of sure things and I'm not sure he'd be that at a big 12 school.
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I wouldn't pay a $6 million buyout for Jay Wright.
seriously? i'd do it in a heartbeat. no brainer.
He's fantastic at Villanova, he's one of my favorite college basketball coaches. For a $6 million buyout then another $3/year contract, he'd need to be the surest of sure things and I'm not sure he'd be that at a big 12 school.
while there's no such thing as a sure thing, he's pretty darn close and I'd definitely give that money to him before I'd build another rowing center or put up a limestone wall at bsfs.
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https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/1074752261635620865
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Talent has caught up with underwear's one-step-ahead. He better beat that bad Missour'a team Saturday. Or they'll be hollerin' in Champaign. :comehere:
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Rumblings
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i'd be shocked if underwood would leave illinois for k-state. that said, it's way easier to leave a fanbase behind in a pandemic year if gonna do it. they're not as emotionally into it, don't feel as connected, and when you slither out of town you can mask up at the airport without having to show your face.
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It's Underwood!
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It's Underwood!
:love:
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More like OVERwood amirite fellas? Wait, what?
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It's Underwood!
(https://y.yarn.co/2260ba57-726a-4caf-820d-3ff1cdfcd3d6_text.gif)
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(https://pistolsfiringblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-21-at-10.08.39-PM.png)
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you know its weird i'm not sure that i've ever knowingly heard his voice but in my imagination he sounds like andy richter
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
I'm pretty sure we could have had him when we hired oscar. But maybe not!
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
I'm pretty sure we could have had him when we hired oscar. But maybe not!
That's interesting because it would have represented his first break, but it would have come by sacrificing Frank and Jamar. I think he would not have passed on working for Currie and his crew of shitbirds.
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i don’t know if he would be comfortable taking frank’s seat after what currie did to him. loyalty in this profession is p strong.
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Would Frank be AHC under Brad?
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sorry i am out of touch, is this joke prank troll or scoop?
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Troll
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sorry i am out of touch, is this joke prank troll or scoop?
I think it’s a joke.
Rumor is oscar may now be considering retirement due to possible departures on his staff or a replacement that would keep his staff together is interested in the job.
Rumor snowballed into trying to find out if Brad has a K-State clause in his contract or something.
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Troll
It’s really happening
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Troll
It’s really happening
I'm sure it is, wetwillie.
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If real....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210310/ddf4237c12b9e33e02d4e6f45876ffaa.jpg)
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If real....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210310/ddf4237c12b9e33e02d4e6f45876ffaa.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good people deserve good things
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K-State might just win a Big 12 Conference Tournament with Brad!!!!!
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
I'm pretty sure we could have had him when we hired oscar. But maybe not!
That's interesting because it would have represented his first break, but it would have come by sacrificing Frank and Jamar. I think he would not have passed on working for Currie and his crew of shitbirds.
I heard at the time that he was willing to stay on as an associate head coach under the new coach. Currie promised him a job prior to making the hire and then let oscar do what he wanted with staff, leading Brad to go to South Carolina.
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Typical that Currie didn't know what he had in Brad. When Frank played him for a raise when the Miami job opened that Frank didn't get any way, Currie have just said fine.
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People who act like they knew what we had in Brad from the get go are the worst. Nothing suggested it with his previous HC gigs at Dodge City and Daytona Beach. Also, we just hired from within once Huggy left and people would have bitched hiring from within again, if we did it after Frank left. They would have called it a lazy offer. I do enjoy the hindsighters tho, who think they knew what we had all along. GTFOOH!
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
I'm pretty sure we could have had him when we hired oscar. But maybe not!
That's interesting because it would have represented his first break, but it would have come by sacrificing Frank and Jamar. I think he would not have passed on working for Currie and his crew of shitbirds.
I heard at the time that he was willing to stay on as an associate head coach under the new coach. Currie promised him a job prior to making the hire and then let oscar do what he wanted with staff, leading Brad to go to South Carolina.
First of all, I definitely misstated what I was trying to say. I was attempting to say that I don't think he would have stayed and worked for Currie.
I do wonder about him offering to work as an associate head coach for Coach X instead of following Frank to South Carolina to perform the same role. If oscar didn't get the job Steve Alford probably did. Can you really envision Brad staying here to work for oscar, who had just gotten fired for performance, or Steve Alford, the coach of New Mexico? I don't feel like that makes sense.
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People who act like they knew what we had in Brad from the get go are the worst. Nothing suggested it with his previous HC gigs at Dodge City and Daytona Beach. Also, we just hired from within once Huggy left and people would have bitched hiring from within again, if we did it after Frank left. They would have called it a lazy offer. I do enjoy the hindsighters tho, who think they knew what we had all along. GTFOOH!
i remember many people wanted him. like the thought was that he was a big reason behind the success. at least a lot more than the average hiring within a program kind of move.
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I remember him helping fix our offense, when Frank was lost, but I wouldn't say people would have lept out of their chairs in joy if we retained him.
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Is it really that far fetched to think Brad would take the KSU job if it came open? I assume money is no object for donors if he is the candidate.
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$8 Million buyout seems a bit excessive, but it's not my $.
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ISU literally interviewed him and Steve Prohm in the same cycle... and chose Steve Prohm. I hate everything.
I'm pretty sure we could have had him when we hired oscar. But maybe not!
That's interesting because it would have represented his first break, but it would have come by sacrificing Frank and Jamar. I think he would not have passed on working for Currie and his crew of shitbirds.
I heard at the time that he was willing to stay on as an associate head coach under the new coach. Currie promised him a job prior to making the hire and then let oscar do what he wanted with staff, leading Brad to go to South Carolina.
First of all, I definitely misstated what I was trying to say. I was attempting to say that I don't think he would have stayed and worked for Currie.
I do wonder about him offering to work as an associate head coach for Coach X instead of following Frank to South Carolina to perform the same role. If oscar didn't get the job Steve Alford probably did. Can you really envision Brad staying here to work for oscar, who had just gotten fired for performance, or Steve Alford, the coach of New Mexico? I don't feel like that makes sense.
I don't know how well Brad fits with the other coaches but I think he was immensely qualified to coach offense specifically. I generally hate it when administrators force assistant hires as I think it undermines the HC right out of the gate.
People who act like they knew what we had in Brad from the get go are the worst. Nothing suggested it with his previous HC gigs at Dodge City and Daytona Beach. Also, we just hired from within once Huggy left and people would have bitched hiring from within again, if we did it after Frank left. They would have called it a lazy offer. I do enjoy the hindsighters tho, who think they knew what we had all along. GTFOOH!
I viewed Brad as the worst acceptable hire once we lost Frank and I put oscar beneath that. I don't know why people (media?) would complain about hiring from within again after Frank was successful here. Most people were pretty ok with hiring from within once Huggs left as that was the only way we were keeping the recruiting class, even if we were gambling on a relatively unknown in Frank.
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I remember him helping fix our offense, when Frank was lost, but I wouldn't say people would have lept out of their chairs in joy if we retained him.
Of course not. He needed to go out and prove himself elsewhere. He’s done so 1000 times over at this point.
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Yeah, I definitely wasn't happy about the oscar hire either. I just accepted it over time and you're absolutely right. Brad has proven himself a million times. I love me some Brad, I just think it's a long shot.
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Brad had proven himself with his success at SFA. Everything else he’s done is just gravy. He was absolutely the best option during oscar cratering 1.0. He continues to be the best option amid oscar Cratering 2.0.
Imo it isn’t close.
How realistic of an option he was with Currie as AD is definitely a valid question. I don’t think his availability is a huge concern this go ‘round. He has proven to be willing to jump jobs. I do think he would leave Illinois for KSU.
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Brad had proven himself with his success at SFA. Everything else he’s done is just gravy. He was absolutely the best option during oscar cratering 1.0. He continues to be the best option amid oscar Cratering 2.0.
Imo it isn’t close.
How realistic of an option he was with Currie as AD is definitely a valid question. I don’t think his availability is a huge concern this go ‘round. He has proven to be willing to jump jobs. I do think he would leave Illinois for KSU.
I think he would too if we could figure out a reasonable way to deal with the buyout.
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I viewed Brad as the worst acceptable hire once we lost Frank and I put oscar beneath that. I don't know why people (media?) would complain about hiring from within again after Frank was successful here. Most people were pretty ok with hiring from within once Huggs left as that was the only way we were keeping the recruiting class, even if we were gambling on a relatively unknown in Frank.
Yeah, this is where I was back then, I would of been OKAY with it but not super excited. I really wanted to snag Brad when he had SFA cooking while oscar was imploding.
Come home Brad, no one will love you like fellow purple Kansas people.
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I will buy season tickets and actually go to games if Brad comes home. I might even get them in section 17.
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Can Cares Act funding be used on a coach buyout?
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Think about hiring Brad, getting Pullen/Beasley retired, Bramlage/OOD (it'd be back) renovations. That crap balled up gives me chills.
I feel like the initial rush of fundraising/tickets would pay for all the buyouts (although I do agree they are excessive as they stand).
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Is it really that far fetched to think Brad would take the KSU job if it came open? I assume money is no object for donors if he is the candidate.
Yes, it is. Why would he take a job here, like what's the upside? He's already built the program up at Illinois, why would he start over? His 2021 class is deep in the 50's but it's only because he has a two player class and both players are top 150 players. It's possible that both of his best players, Dosunmu and Cockburn both stay, neither are projected into the lottery. If they both come back Illinois will be the preseason #1 team in the country next year, lol if any of you think he's going to leave that for a team with 7 conference wins the last two years.
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Is it really that far fetched to think Brad would take the KSU job if it came open? I assume money is no object for donors if he is the candidate.
Yes, it is. Why would he take a job here, like what's the upside? He's already built the program up at Illinois, why would he start over? His 2021 class is deep in the 50's but it's only because he has a two player class and both players are top 150 players. It's possible that both of his best players, Dosunmu and Cockburn both stay, neither are projected into the lottery. If they both come back Illinois will be the preseason #1 team in the country next year, lol if any of you think he's going to leave that for a team with 7 conference wins the last two years.
Your heart is two sizes too small
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Is it really that far fetched to think Brad would take the KSU job if it came open? I assume money is no object for donors if he is the candidate.
Yes, it is. Why would he take a job here, like what's the upside? He's already built the program up at Illinois, why would he start over? His 2021 class is deep in the 50's but it's only because he has a two player class and both players are top 150 players. It's possible that both of his best players, Dosunmu and Cockburn both stay, neither are projected into the lottery. If they both come back Illinois will be the preseason #1 team in the country next year, lol if any of you think he's going to leave that for a team with 7 conference wins the last two years.
Your heart is two sizes too small
Sorry buddy, it's important to snuff these things out before they get air and people get their hopes up then meltdown because they didn't get an actual unicorn or dragon for christmas.
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I could see Brad taking the job here. KSU is being mentioned in his buyout clauses for a reason. He is also close with Huggs who made a similar move even with GRCOAT coming in (granted to a better situation at WVU). You are right that it's not a practical move but he pretty clearly loves it here.
I'm not saying we could definitely get him, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think this year would be particularly challenging given the success of the Illini and his buyout but I fully expect oscar to return anyways.
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I would be absolutely shocked if he came here from Illinois this season. Unless he has an evil athletic director who sabatoges his NCAA tournament.
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I will buy season tickets and actually go to games if Brad comes home. I might even get them in section 17.
I am in.
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I could see Brad taking the job here. KSU is being mentioned in his buyout clauses for a reason. He is also close with Huggs who made a similar move even with GRCOAT coming in (granted to a better situation at WVU). You are right that it's not a practical move but he pretty clearly loves it here.
I'm not saying we could definitely get him, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think this year would be particularly challenging given the success of the Illini and his buyout but I fully expect oscar to return anyways.
Is this true? I've looked and I haven't been able to find his Illinois contract.
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it was in his SFA contract, doubtful on OSU and Illinois
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If Brad wants to be here his buyout isn’t an issue.
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it was in his SFA contract, doubtful on OSU and Illinois
The reduced buyout for K-State? It was in his Oklahoma State contact too.
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I could see Brad taking the job here. KSU is being mentioned in his buyout clauses for a reason. He is also close with Huggs who made a similar move even with GRCOAT coming in (granted to a better situation at WVU). You are right that it's not a practical move but he pretty clearly loves it here.
I'm not saying we could definitely get him, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think this year would be particularly challenging given the success of the Illini and his buyout but I fully expect oscar to return anyways.
Is this true? I've looked and I haven't been able to find his Illinois contract.
I don't think Illinois but know it was for OSU/SFA. Perhaps Illinois is right though and they feel as though their job is good enough that they aren't particularly worried
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Not to dig into this rabbit hole any more than needed, but Brad would be acquire a talented, young roster. The cupboards are not bare.
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BARD
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eff Brad “I love Kansas State” Underwood and the horse he rode in on. At least I’ll never have to hear that rough rider mentioned as a future coach at Kansas State again.
https://twitter.com/KellisRobinett/status/1509203378701799442?s=20&t=70PzElWpqiB2Z-RBFm24cg
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I am sure someday head coach Brad Underwood will see the second weekend of the NCAA tourney from the sidelines of the team bench area, instead of his couch.
But in that Round of 32 game, the Illini looked liked they wanted to be anywhere else but playing that game. It was a pretty pathetic performance for a Big 10 co-champion.
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I think Brad made the logical move IMO, I’m not mad at him for it. I think his desire for the job was overstated based on hearsay from fans.
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Who cares? Go Cats
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why would you be mad at Brad for us wanting him super hard
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Negative:
His people reached out to K State which could have cost us getting a good coach during the time that we messed around trying to meet his demands
For someone who allegedly loved Kansas State and was always wanting to come home to coach, he wouldn’t have done that to us, using us as leverage to get a better contract
Positive:
I never wanted him as a coach in the first place
I think he’s overrated and we would’ve had to pay way too much for him
We ended up with a much better coach in my opinion
We hopefully sent a message to the coaching world and to our fanbase that we are not the little sisters of the poor and for the right coach there are deep pocket alumni that are willing to pony up the amount of money necessary to compete
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Brad sucks. There, I said it!
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Now we can see who between Brad and Tang make it past the round of 32 first!
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Brad sucks. There, I said it!
Wrong sport Wacky.
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Brad sucks. There, I said it!
Wrong sport Wacky.
L O L
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eff Brad “I love Kansas State” Underwood and the horse he rode in on. At least I’ll never have to hear that rough rider mentioned as a future coach at Kansas State again.
https://twitter.com/KellisRobinett/status/1509203378701799442?s=20&t=70PzElWpqiB2Z-RBFm24cg
huge we love you but I think you're wrong here! Dude won a Dr. Pepper and got a 1 seed the year prior, he deserved that raise regardless of our interest.
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Negative:
His people reached out to K State which could have cost us getting a good coach during the time that we messed around trying to meet his demands
For someone who allegedly loved Kansas State and was always wanting to come home to coach, he wouldn’t have done that to us, using us as leverage to get a better contract
Positive:
I never wanted him as a coach in the first place
I think he’s overrated and we would’ve had to pay way too much for him
We ended up with a much better coach in my opinion
We hopefully sent a message to the coaching world and to our fanbase that we are not the little sisters of the poor and for the right coach there are deep pocket alumni that are willing to pony up the amount of money necessary to compete
10/10 post
Would be so pissed if Brad's meddling caused #TangTown to pass us by.
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https://briefly.co.za/106888-list-top-25-highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches.html (https://briefly.co.za/106888-list-top-25-highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches.html)
This is a list of top college basketball coaches salaries as of March/4 and things are fluid, but this would move Brad ahead of Huggs.
I have no problem with Brad making the money he’s making, I just don’t think he needed to play his alma mater like chumps for leverage. Brad is a good coach
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fraud underwood belongs in illinois
true wildcats don’t defraud their school like fraud underwood did to ksu cats
if fraud were standing in front of me right now i would flip him the double eagles
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Has Kurtz passed Jmart as the greatest K State media personality?
https://twitter.com/jlkurtz/status/1509232847701303300?s=20&t=1O0mPTa1BD1JuFcogG18Zw
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He’s like an insurance agent now or something
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He’s like an insurance agent now or something
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
For real, his dad was a broker/had an agency.
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Interesting. I did not know that he had gone into the insurance game. Thanks. I would still consider him a media personality though. I will miss him at Kman.
https://twitter.com/BJ_KCSN/status/1509310748207558668?s=20&t=vvj7Ljvv9wH5Ial91EjwUg
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BJ is one of my best buds from college. He’s utilizing semi retired broadcasters to help his new platform. He’s killing it. He left the Chiefs to start it. I’m super happy for him. Also, I grew up with all those dudes at 91.9 & the collegiate.
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He’s like an insurance agent now or something
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
For real, his dad was a broker/had an agency.
Actually was meaning Brad, to be clear
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He’s like an insurance agent now or something
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
For real, his dad was a broker/had an agency.
Actually was meaning Brad, to be clear
https://twitter.com/jlkurtz/status/1501995045922217991
I have no idea if he works in PR. Kind of makes sense.
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He doesn’t. He got to cover 2 big 12 Championships and an elite 8 as a radio guy, as a inside fan, and take trips doing what he loved along the way. Not everyone needs to be
“Scorned earth mother fuckers and BID because of oscar!” to enjoy their time during the happiest/fun career he’s ever had. Most of us leave because the $ isn’t there. It sucks, but I 100% guarantee that’s why he did it.
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I’m sure he built a bond with him as well and he’s being sarcastic in that tweet
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John does work in PR now, he does it for a large company in Kansas City that everyone has heard from. He also still does his podcast for the KC Sports Network and does some p-b-p for ESPN+. Anyway, he went on the record about Brad contacting K-State as soon as oscar was gone. So while his team was completely flaming out to end the season; loss in their first conference tournament game, should have lost to Chattanooga, then losing to Houston, Brad was behind the scenes making offers and counter offers to K-State.
Let the Illinois fans have their victory lap, they need it, poor bastards.
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Free article for anyone interested in Brad’s bullshit.
https://twitter.com/GoPowercat/status/1510226791096479747?s=20&t=R178ogICbivDZmUSnAD2xQ
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Free article for anyone interested in Brad’s bullshit.
https://twitter.com/GoPowercat/status/1510226791096479747?s=20&t=R178ogICbivDZmUSnAD2xQ
He comes across fine in that. I’ll give Brad the benefit of the doubt, it’s entirely possible his agent reached out to K-State and drummed up interest without any input or insistence by Brad. Kind of like a “obviously I’ll have to run this by my client but we both know there’s interest here, how much can you offer?”
Hard to fault a guy for staying where things are going well. Who knows if Huggins would have left here if he was coming off a Big 12 championship.
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Free article for anyone interested in Brad’s bullshit.
https://twitter.com/GoPowercat/status/1510226791096479747?s=20&t=R178ogICbivDZmUSnAD2xQ
He comes across fine in that. I’ll give Brad the benefit of the doubt, it’s entirely possible his agent reached out to K-State and drummed up interest without any input or insistence by Brad. Kind of like a “obviously I’ll have to run this by my client but we both know there’s interest here, how much can you offer?”
Hard to fault a guy for staying where things are going well. Who knows if Huggins would have left here if he was coming off a Big 12 championship.
You think his agent made an offer and counteroffer without his input? lol
I don't find fault with him not coming here or with him using us to get more money from Illinois. But don't, as Judge Judy says, pee on my leg and tell me that it's raining. He did what he did and wants to still remain as beloved as he was a month ago and leave his options open if K-State was ever available for him to do a job reset.
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I missed that there was a counteroffer, which explains my ignorance there. I thought the rumor was K-State was able and willing to match the demand. If that’s true then it seems like they were not true “offers.” But I may have just misunderstood what K-State was willing to agree to.
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Hypothetical.
Brad Underwood’s record his first three years at Illinois:
Year 1
Record 14–18
League 4–14 T–11th
Year 2
Record 12–21
League 7–13 T–10th
Year 3
Record 21–10
League 13–7 4th
Are people going to be happy with Coach Tang if he doesn’t do better than this his first two years?
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kstate had a couple of opportunities to hire underwood. no right to be mad that he's not still there when they didn't avail themselves earlier.
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Hypothetical.
Brad Underwood’s record his first three years at Illinois:
Year 1
Record 14–18
League 4–14 T–11th
Year 2
Record 12–21
League 7–13 T–10th
Year 3
Record 21–10
League 13–7 4th
Are people going to be happy with Coach Tang if he doesn’t do better than this his first two years?
For as much as people seemingly love Tang now, his rope is ultra short. They'll be more people expressing the Kietzman sentiment the first time he loses. If he doesn't make the tournament the first year we'll be right back at split fan sentiment. If he has a first two years like Brad had at Illinois most will want him gone.
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Hypothetical.
Brad Underwood’s record his first three years at Illinois:
Year 1
Record 14–18
League 4–14 T–11th
Year 2
Record 12–21
League 7–13 T–10th
Year 3
Record 21–10
League 13–7 4th
Are people going to be happy with Coach Tang if he doesn’t do better than this his first two years?
For as much as people seemingly love Tang now, his rope is ultra short. They'll be more people expressing the Kietzman sentiment the first time he loses. If he doesn't make the tournament the first year we'll be right back at split fan sentiment. If he has a first two years like Brad had at Illinois most will want him gone.
I dunno, we don't exactly have the reputation of a school that gives coaches a short leash. Maybe Prince but I think most would agree it was the right decision to can him, esp with our most successful coach ever ready to calm the waters. Sure there will be pockets of the fan base that will be calling for his head if his first 2 years aren't very good, but I don't think he would realistically be on the hot seat unless it was like, 4 straight years of doodoo
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Brad didn’t have the benefit of the transfer portal, I don’t think Tang will come anywhere close to a 12 win season next year. I think MIR is right though, could get ugly for him if he hasn’t made the tourney after year 2.
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Hypothetical.
Brad Underwood’s record his first three years at Illinois:
Year 1
Record 14–18
League 4–14 T–11th
Year 2
Record 12–21
League 7–13 T–10th
Year 3
Record 21–10
League 13–7 4th
Are people going to be happy with Coach Tang if he doesn’t do better than this his first two years?
For as much as people seemingly love Tang now, his rope is ultra short. They'll be more people expressing the Kietzman sentiment the first time he loses. If he doesn't make the tournament the first year we'll be right back at split fan sentiment. If he has a first two years like Brad had at Illinois most will want him gone.
I dunno, we don't exactly have the reputation of a school that gives coaches a short leash. Maybe Prince but I think most would agree it was the right decision to can him, esp with our most successful coach ever ready to calm the waters. Sure there will be pockets of the fan base that will be calling for his head if his first 2 years aren't very good, but I don't think he would realistically be on the hot seat unless it was like, 4 straight years of doodoo
lolwut? We've had exactly two coaches in the social media era where this would be an issue, Prince and Weber and both were unmitigated disasters when it came to patience. Price had the fan base split from day one. Remember the crap storm when he benched Meier? People had some lame ass excuse about how he did it. oscar Weber won our first conference championship in 36 years and people acted like it didn't happen, some still don't.
Our fan base is almost the polar opposite of Iowa State and KU fans which in most cases is great, but we don't have expectations that don't match our success. Again this is great for the most part because it's the only way we're going to eventually have success.
Also dude is black, there are a lot of people who won't give him the same chances.
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Idk how you call Weber a short leash. Prince to me was just stepping into a tough spot following a legend, plus the fact that, if I recall correctly, he never beat KU after three attempts. I’ll admit I was completely ignorant of the general fan base chatter around Prince, but I went to every home game Prince coached, sat in a student section that was pretty rocking, and I was still very ready for him to go because it felt like we had zero momentum and were nowhere near competing for the North.
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He was 0-9 vs KU, Mizzou, and Nebraska and was a reach from day 1 and his record declined every year he was there.
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Nobody wanted him either. We went out of our way to make a bad hire.
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Hypothetical.
Brad Underwood’s record his first three years at Illinois:
Year 1
Record 14–18
League 4–14 T–11th
Year 2
Record 12–21
League 7–13 T–10th
Year 3
Record 21–10
League 13–7 4th
Are people going to be happy with Coach Tang if he doesn’t do better than this his first two years?
For as much as people seemingly love Tang now, his rope is ultra short. They'll be more people expressing the Kietzman sentiment the first time he loses. If he doesn't make the tournament the first year we'll be right back at split fan sentiment. If he has a first two years like Brad had at Illinois most will want him gone.
I dunno, we don't exactly have the reputation of a school that gives coaches a short leash. Maybe Prince but I think most would agree it was the right decision to can him, esp with our most successful coach ever ready to calm the waters. Sure there will be pockets of the fan base that will be calling for his head if his first 2 years aren't very good, but I don't think he would realistically be on the hot seat unless it was like, 4 straight years of doodoo
lolwut? We've had exactly two coaches in the social media era where this would be an issue, Prince and Weber and both were unmitigated disasters when it came to patience. Price had the fan base split from day one. Remember the crap storm when he benched Meier? People had some lame ass excuse about how he did it. oscar Weber won our first conference championship in 36 years and people acted like it didn't happen, some still don't.
Our fan base is almost the polar opposite of Iowa State and KU fans which in most cases is great, but we don't have expectations that don't match our success. Again this is great for the most part because it's the only way we're going to eventually have success.
Also dude is black, there are a lot of people who won't give him the same chances.
Fair enough, not sure I can really argue with most of your points other than to say I think there were several opportunities where oscar was under-preforming, and we had prime opportunities for better coaches (like Brad) but Gene stuck with him for... reasons, I guess. Also I concede your point that it would be foolish to underestimate the overt or latent racist tendencies of a good chunk of our fanbase, but you gotta admit skin color is pretty much the only thing the Prince and Tang hires have in common. Ok I guess they have one other thing in common in that there was a proven successful former kstater in the running for the job who didn't take it which some would find disappointing.
But the fans are almost unanimously excited about Tang. He's replacing a middling unpopular coach and bringing in an excitement we haven't seen in years. Prince was replacing the greatest and most beloved coach we've ever had and from day 1 he made it clear he was doing it his way, so when it didn't work out the fans were understandably displeased.
Last point regarding race...I think even the racist fans would agree that a black coach is more palatable for them in basketball than in football. Black coaches having success in basketball is increasingly more common whereas that barrier hasn't quite been broken through in football.
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GTFOOH with your K state is racist bullshit. Harold Robinson was the first African-American in the Big Seven Conference to be awarded an athletic scholarship in 1950. Earl Woods broke the Big Eight Conference (then the Big Seven Conference) "color barrier" in baseball in 1951. Gene Wilson became the first black men's basketball player in the Big Seven Conference when he played at Kansas State in 1950. Dave Baker was the Big Eight Conference's first African-American head baseball coach. As of 2013 Baker was the Big 8/12's only African-American baseball coach. Honestly there’s a couple of people in this thread that sound pretty rough ridin' racist
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Some posters never fail to amaze.
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GTFOOH with your K state is racist bullshit. Harold Robinson was the first African-American in the Big Seven Conference to be awarded an athletic scholarship in 1950. Earl Woods broke the Big Eight Conference (then the Big Seven Conference) "color barrier" in baseball in 1951. Gene Wilson became the first black men's basketball player in the Big Seven Conference when he played at Kansas State in 1950. Dave Baker was the Big Eight Conference's first African-American head baseball coach. As of 2013 Baker was the Big 8/12's only African-American baseball coach. Honestly there’s a couple of people in this thread that sound pretty rough ridin' racist
Well I guess that settles it, then.
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Idk how you call Weber a short leash. Prince to me was just stepping into a tough spot following a legend, plus the fact that, if I recall correctly, he never beat KU after three attempts. I’ll admit I was completely ignorant of the general fan base chatter around Prince, but I went to every home game Prince coached, sat in a student section that was pretty rocking, and I was still very ready for him to go because it felt like we had zero momentum and were nowhere near competing for the North.
We're not talking about the athletic department, we're talking about fan sentiment. This message board, of all places, is ground zero of not giving oscar Weber a long leash and that wasn't even unique to here. I'm literally actively staring at a magnet calling him a clown that was made before he even coached a conference game.
You'll just have to take my word for it on Prince. Of course none of these things, oscar or Ron, were unanimous, but in both cases there was a sizable and loud minority that either never bought in or ejected very early. This isn't a conversation about results and we definitely don't need to relegislate whether or not he should have been fired. I could make the case that he deserved another year, but there's no way in hell I'd do that. Also the attendance was definitely down, including the student section, but that started with Snyder 1.0, not Prince.
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GTFOOH with your K state is racist bullshit. Harold Robinson was the first African-American in the Big Seven Conference to be awarded an athletic scholarship in 1950. Earl Woods broke the Big Eight Conference (then the Big Seven Conference) "color barrier" in baseball in 1951. Gene Wilson became the first black men's basketball player in the Big Seven Conference when he played at Kansas State in 1950. Dave Baker was the Big Eight Conference's first African-American head baseball coach. As of 2013 Baker was the Big 8/12's only African-American baseball coach. Honestly there’s a couple of people in this thread that sound pretty rough ridin' racist
I literally didn't say a single thing about "K-State is racist." I don't even know what that means. Didn't say it, didn't hint at it, didn't mean it. Even if I did, which I in no way did, those gentlemen you named as players and coaches have absolutely nothing at all to do with fan sentiment or administrative expectation.
Now if you can sit aside the hysterics for a second. I was speaking specifically to college and NFL black football coaches getting fired quicker than their peers. That's an inarguable, statistical fact, not a matter of option. Go ahead and Google "nfl black coaches winning percentage." Do the same with college football, it's all there in black and white. There isn't enough, or any that I can find, research on college basketball coaches but there's plenty of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that black coaches don't get the same leeway as their peers.
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Yes, I probably overreacted. After rereading, I think references are made to individuals within a fanbase and not painting a fan base and an administration with a broad brush as racist. Apologies
Very good points were made to my hypothetical regarding Tang getting the same amount of leeway that Brad did in his first two mediocre years, this was probably what triggered me. I take exception to this and it is probably nitpicking.
“Also I concede your point that it would be foolish to underestimate the overt or latent racist tendencies of a good chunk of our fanbase”
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Those records don't connote rebuild and certainly not in the free transfer universe, particularly when we have an assistant who has been amazing at landing transfers at a similar program.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
Tang didn't have the meeting with Nijel because he and his family cancelled it. I love Nijel Pack and I want him to come back too, but if that's contingent on him starting at the point I don't want him back and he won't be back. Nowell Isa significantly better point guard than Nijel and Nijel is a significantly better shooting guard.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
Tang didn't have the meeting with Nijel because he and his family cancelled it. I love Nijel Pack and I want him to come back too, but if that's contingent on him starting at the point I don't want him back and he won't be back. Nowell Isa significantly better point guard than Nijel and Nijel is a significantly better shooting guard.
No lies detected in any of that. Can't agree more.
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He was 0-9 vs KU, Mizzou, and Nebraska and was a reach from day 1 and his record declined every year he was there.
Nobody wanted him either. We went out of our way to make a bad hire.
Agree w/ the first, more or less disagree with the second. Now granted I was more naive during that timeframe but I felt Prince had a decent enough support and at least going to catbacker stuff back them few if any where anti-Prince. I think everyone was excited. It's just I think easy in retrospect to see him as not a good hire/coach, but I suppose trying to snag a real up and comer HC rather than an OC at a meh school should've been the tip off.
I feel your first, and very true, statement about 0-9 vs ku/mizz/nubbs was/is the reason he was fired and he should have been. It does suck for Prince that during that time ku and mizzou were in much better years, but nubbs had fallen off. I am fairly convinced had Prince been 4-5 or even 3-6 vs those same teams during that time, and at least 2 of those wins were vs ku, he would not have been fired, or at least not after 3 years. That, and missing two straight bowl games also broke the back.
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All I meant by my second comment, is no other P5's we're banging on his door to come coach there. He was an offensive line coach at Virginia. It was definitely a weird hire, but I agree, we did rally behind him afterwards.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
Tang didn't have the meeting with Nijel because he and his family cancelled it. I love Nijel Pack and I want him to come back too, but if that's contingent on him starting at the point I don't want him back and he won't be back. Nowell Isa significantly better point guard than Nijel and Nijel is a significantly better shooting guard.
I think Pack could play PG with Nowell off the floor, SG when they're together. Perhaps transitioning Nijel to PG next year. Even if Tang brings the dudes, I think we'll need to have one of the two of them on the court at all times.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
Tang didn't have the meeting with Nijel because he and his family cancelled it. I love Nijel Pack and I want him to come back too, but if that's contingent on him starting at the point I don't want him back and he won't be back. Nowell Isa significantly better point guard than Nijel and Nijel is a significantly better shooting guard.
I didn't say I wanted Pack at PG, in fact acknowledged that he is an undersized shooting guard. However, I think he could become more involved in running the offense as well as shooting, ie Baylor guards. Of course, it helps when you have an actual offense.
But I suppose I should just give up on the whole thing and accept Pack's gone.
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Without Nijel I’m ok with a multi-year rebuild. With him I’d have expected a ranked team. Given we gotta replace everyone, I don’t have any expectations anymore. But year 2 I’d hope we have a winning record at least, and some dudes ready for a big season in year 3.
Maybe I'm in denial, but I'm still hoping to retain Pack. He left the possibility of returning open, and hasn't had an in-person one-on-one with Tang. From what I've read, Pack heard from the NBA he has to be a point guard and wants a chance to play at his "natural position."
Leaving aside he is naturally an undersized shooting guard, I think Tang could sell the Baylor offense in of multiple point guards. Any coach of a high-profile team telling Pack he is going to point, isn't being honest with him.
As far as how patient fans are with Tang, it will depend on the product on the floor. If it looks like a well-coached hard-playing team that can punch above its weight, fans will be patient while waiting for talent.
Tang didn't have the meeting with Nijel because he and his family cancelled it. I love Nijel Pack and I want him to come back too, but if that's contingent on him starting at the point I don't want him back and he won't be back. Nowell Isa significantly better point guard than Nijel and Nijel is a significantly better shooting guard.
I didn't say I wanted Pack at PG, in fact acknowledged that he is an undersized shooting guard. However, I think he could become more involved in running the offense as well as shooting, ie Baylor guards. Of course, it helps when you have an actual offense.
But I suppose I should just give up on the whole thing and accept Pack's gone.
I know you didn't. I wasn't impressed with Pack at the point the times he did it last year, and I won't even hold his bungling of the last possession against flood aggie against him here either. He didn't seem dynamic at all when he was on the ball. At absolute best he's been a Will Spradling ball mover when he wasn't off the ball or trying to create his own shot. Maybe that could have had something to do with the pieces around him, but if he wants to be an NBA point guard, "my teammates weren't very good" won't sell, at all.
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maybe we can be pretty good next year. say we landed 3 guys smith/nowell level, 3 guys massoud level, and 2 guys who don't pan out. might be decent. and if that sounds unreasonable, we got 8 chances at smith/nowell level of guys compared to 3 chances last year. like in moneyball, we don't have to replace pack with 1 player, we can replace him with 2.
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Prince had way more fan support after going 7-5 his first season than oscar did after winning a Big12 title.
Hell, we loved prince so much Krause signed him to the secret napkin/life insurance extension early into his second year after he beat Texas for the 2nd time in a row.