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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 03, 2015, 08:45:31 PM
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It has come.
Now I realize this is really no surprise to most posters here. Even the most optimistic toward oscar knew this time would come, some thought much sooner and some much later. Some made it a point to make comparisons and some ignored it. But for all of us "it" has always been there; comparing how oscar is doing at K-State and how Frank is doing building his own program from scratch.
Its safe to say that fulcrum has clearly shifted enough for the balance to swing; the better program now resides in Columbia, SC and not Manhattan, KS. One team sits outside the top 100 in kenpom and one sits in the top 30. One has won 7 straight games, including 2 wins over Big 12 teams. One has lost 3 straight, and looks like it will struggle to win 2 games in the Big 12. One has a pair of sophomores leading the program and turning into the best players in their league. The other has promising sophomores underachieving, struggling, and maybe even looking for a new place to play.
Frank's residue of toughness was real and its carryover had enormous benefits for oscar, one that he rode all the way to a league title (shared, but still). Since then the highlights have been sparse with a few nice wins over Gonzaga, Kansas, and Iowa State in the past year, but no NCAA tournament wins and then the disaster that has become this year's team. In four of the last seven games we've seen K-State teams fail to score 20 points in a half. We now see a K-State team at .500 at the latest point in a season since February of 2004. We see a K-State defense allowing a worse eFG% than any K-State team since kenpom started his rating system in 2002.
I once wrote stuff like this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786) and this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1810) that highlighted some of the strengths of Frank Martin's teams. I won't deny that Martin recruited well for Kansas State, but let's not forget that not a single player from his tenure is currently playing NBA basketball. No doubt Martin had good players, but he built this program on toughness and effort; controlling things like offensive boards and getting to the free throw line while playing tenacious defense. His players bought in and things like effort and toughness were things you saw consistently from K-State basketball teams.
Even this year, K-State still does some things well under Weber. We rebound decent (both sides), we shoot threes, surprisingly this year's team gets to the FT line a bunch, and we force TOs at a high rate . However, the eFG% stat (allowing 51.6%) highlights a huge problem that we now see with this team. Despite turning it over a bit, opponents find it far too easy to run offense and get good shots (both 2s and 3s) against K-State. As long as you allow teams to get comfortable and shoot at that rate you aren't going to be very good because shooting is obviously the most important factor for offensive success. Despite having K-State's best shooting team (51.9%) in the kenpom era and a FT rate of over 50%, the Cats turn it over on over 1/5 of their possessions leading to often ugly and mediocre offense.
Meanwhile Frank's team is allowing teams to shoot only 39.9% and he has one of the Top 10 efficiency defenses in the country while continuing to oboard in typical junkyard dog fashion. Frank's tough brand of basketball is clearly in place with a core of young players and it looks like South Carolina will be a competitive basketball program for years to come. Weber's brand looks to be firmly in place as well, where inconsistency is the only thing that's consistent while the coach rarely takes ownership for the problems while squeaking his way through vague explanations.
For K-State basketball a long season awaits, likely the first below .500 finish in over a decade and the end of an 8 year streak of postseason basketball. The sad transition that most expected is finally here.
Its a sad day for K-State basketball.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finexadvisors.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Ffulcrum-of-time.jpg&hash=f7dfd482e2f2766cec8d9ef81b73c90610a43f64)
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It has come.
Now I realize this really no surprise to most posters here. Even the most optimistic toward oscar knew this time would come, some thought much sooner and some much later. Some made it a point to make comparisons and some ignored it. But for all of us "it" has always been there; comparing how oscar is doing at K-State and how Frank is doing building his own program from scratch.
Its safe to say that fulcrum has clearly shifted enough for the balance to swing; the better program now resides in Columbia, SC and not Manhattan, KS. One team sits outside the top 100 in kenpom and one sits in the top 30. One has won 7 straight games, including 2 wins over Big 12 teams. One has lost 3 straight, and looks like it will struggle to win 2 games in the Big 12. One has a pair of sophomores leading the program and turning into the best players in their league. The other has promising sophomores underachieving, struggling, and maybe even looking for a new place to play.
Frank's residue of toughness was real and its carryover had enormous benefits for oscar, one that he rode all the way to a league title (shared, but still). Since then the highlights have been sparse with a few nice wins over Gonzaga, Kansas, and Iowa State in the past year, but no NCAA tournament wins and then the disaster that has become this year's team. In four of the last seven games we've seen K-State teams fail to score 20 points in a half. We now see a K-State team at .500 at the latest point in a season since February of 2004. We see a K-State defense allowing a worse eFG% than any K-State team since kenpom started his rating system in 2002.
I once wrote stuff like this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786) and this (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1810) that highlighted some of the strengths of Frank Martin's teams. I won't deny that Martin recruited well for Kansas State, but let's not forget that not a single player from his tenure is currently playing NBA basketball. No doubt Martin had good players, but he built this program on toughness and effort; controlling things like offensive boards and getting to the free throw line while playing tenacious defense. His players bought in and things like effort and toughness were things you saw consistently from K-State basketball teams.
Even this year, K-State still does some things well under Weber. We rebound decent (both sides), we shoot threes, surprisingly this year's team gets to the FT line a bunch, and we force TOs at a high rate . However, the eFG% stat (allowing 51.6%) highlights a huge problem that we now see with this team. Despite turning it over a bit, opponents find it far too easy to run offense and get good shots (both 2s and 3s) against K-State. As long as you allow teams to get comfortable and shoot at that rate you aren't going to be very good because shooting is obviously the most important factor for offensive success. Despite having K-State's best shooting team (51.9%) in the kenpom era and a FT rate of over 50%, the Cats turn it over on over 1/5 of their possessions leading to often ugly and mediocre offense.
Meanwhile Frank's team is allowing teams to shoot only 39.9% and he has one of the Top 10 efficiency defenses in the country while continuing to oboard in typical junkyard dog fashion. Frank's tough brand of basketball is clearly in place with a core of young players and it looks like South Carolina will be a competitive basketball program for years to come. Weber's brand looks to be firmly in place as well, where inconsistency is the only thing that's consistent while the coach rarely takes ownership for the problems while squeaking his way through vague explanations.
For K-State basketball a long season awaits, likely the first below .500 finish in over a decade and the end of an 8 year streak of postseason basketball. The sad transition that most expected is finally here.
Its a sad day for K-State basketball.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finexadvisors.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Ffulcrum-of-time.jpg&hash=f7dfd482e2f2766cec8d9ef81b73c90610a43f64)
In first.
Now I am going to read all of this.
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I hate it so much, but take slight solace in telling tucks "I told you so".
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I mean, I know I'm ridiculous. I tried to let myself get over Frank and the early success from oscar while Frank struggled helped, I won't lie about that. I'm an optimist and I tried to move on. I wanted oscar to succeed so it would be easier to do so.
But Frank was nearly a perfect fit for K-State. An approach to the game built on toughness and effort.
And we (Currie) let it go because of a stupid ego clash.
The reality of today made it all too real again for me.
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:rolleyes:
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These are indeed sad times. :frown:
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
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These are indeed sad times. :frown:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-k4WaQPY3Nis%2FTabDis3p96I%2FAAAAAAAAAoY%2FtnvuMarOuxY%2Fs1600%2Fcandlelight5.gif&hash=9e3b73022731b695ee7a1892e6188329b55c6402)
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It scares me that it will take more than 1 season (this season) for the oscar lovers to get it. It will likely take multiple seasons of this before we reach a tipping point. What scares me the most is that we will be looking for a new football coach at that point, we'll be mired in mediocrity, and no one will care. K-State basketball could be such an after thought because of our horrible non-combo tuck fan base that we could be on the precipice of a decade or longer period of not just mediocre, but bad basketball.
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I mean, I know I'm ridiculous. I tried to let myself get over Frank and the early success from oscar while Frank struggled helped, I won't lie about that. I'm an optimist and I tried to move on. I wanted oscar to succeed so it would be easier to do so.
But Frank was nearly a perfect fit for K-State. An approach to the game built on toughness and effort.
And we (Currie) let it go because of a stupid ego clash.
The reality of today made it all too real again for me.
As always _FWN, well stated. No matter what some may think, K-State basketball hurting does not make anyone on this board happy. This board and KSUfans before it to a certain extent rose to prominence through K-State basketball. It hurts all of us to has that part of our lives that provided so much joy, stripped down to this level.
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i dont like oscar and i want our basketball program to be good again. this is a sad day _FAN. having just finished watching that pathetic game a little bit ago this stuff makes me sad. :cry:
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
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Went to a game in Columbia, SC last week to watch frank coach. It was bittersweet, he barely yelled, not a single cuss word. But they're very good in person, the foreigners they have are good, and no one in columbia cares except for gamecock jesus.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F03%2F9f0baab5dcc83387cd75b3f2707b5e47.jpg&hash=502ddd329c5710dd5a3f0e5c2b5a5d3f3fd7f8fe)
https://vimeo.com/115885404 (https://vimeo.com/115885404)
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
It's going to take something monumental to get him fired this year, but I think next year is very possible.
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
It's going to take something monumental to get him fired this year, but I think next year is very possible.
We'll likely have a better record next year. Tough to fire a coach on the upswing.
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i've only watched like 2 games this year so i feel left out about this whole meltdown :frown:
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we didn't lose frank, the dude left
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Please change your name to _FWN, please.
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
It's going to take something monumental to get him fired this year, but I think next year is very possible.
We'll likely have a better record next year. Tough to fire a coach on the upswing.
If Foster leaves (which is a big assumption), we lose Gip and Nino, we don't get any help/improvement at PG, etc.
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
It's going to take something monumental to get him fired this year, but I think next year is very possible.
We'll likely have a better record next year. Tough to fire a coach on the upswing.
If Foster leaves (which is a big assumption), we lose Gip and Nino, we don't get any help/improvement at PG, etc.
Well if Foster leaves he definitely gets another year. I mean he built the team around that guy and he turned out to be an FP, TC, etc.
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I'm just glad FAN made this post so that Weber gets fired within two months.
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When you lose _FAN, you may as well warm up the coaching search.
In my lifetime...
Altman. His final year was my first year at K-State. His seat was hot, but I didn't want him fired. I wasn't disappointed when he left.
Asbury. He lost me on February 1st, 1999; we lost 46-69 to Kansas in a game we were favored to win (really). BBSing was in its infancy, but I remember making a post about it somewhere. He was fired March 11th, 2000.
Wooly. He lost me on January 11th, 2006; we lost 42-57 to Nebraska. I posted about it. He was fired March 9th, 2006.
It's going to take something monumental to get him fired this year, but I think next year is very possible.
We'll likely have a better record next year. Tough to fire a coach on the upswing.
If Foster leaves (which is a big assumption), we lose Gip and Nino, we don't get any help/improvement at PG, etc.
Even if all that happens we will absolutely be better next year, it's going to be very difficult to be worse. This season as it sits now, is completely unforseen at any point in the Weber tenure. No matter how long he will be here, this year from the first will be wild deviations from the mean. We expected Wooly, next year will resemble that more.
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we didn't lose frank, the dude left
This is true, but it's hard not to compare, especially since so many K-State fans really appreciated what Frank meant to our program and school. Even still, there were quite a few who thought maybe Frank's time was done at K-State regardless of fault. There were questions even after Frank left. Who was K-State going to hire? What was the short list? Would they give Underwood a shot? What about oscar Pearl?
It would be interesting to see some of the coaches that were trotted out there as ideas and how they are doing currently.
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Please change your name to _FWN, please.
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Quote from Weber postgame:
"When our coaches play hard in practice, Coach Frazier, our guys don't like it..they say it's not basketball.. and that's what happened in the second half. OSU played hard and our guys don't like it."
How can hearing/reading that Currie not reach for his whose-available rollerdeck? It's an open admission of coaching ineptitude. A real coach would say "tough crap" and double down after having the team run lines for 20 minutes. I'm sure it's a complaint Frank never heard.
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Quote from Weber postgame:
"When our coaches play hard in practice, Coach Frazier, our guys don't like it..they say it's not basketball.. and that's what happened in the second half. OSU played hard and our guys don't like it."
How can hearing/reading that Currie not reach for his whose-available rollerdeck? It's an open admission of coaching ineptitude. A real coach would say "tough crap" and double down after having the team run lines for 20 minutes. I'm sure it's a complaint Frank never heard.
fanning sock?
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Quote from Weber postgame:
"When our coaches play hard in practice, Coach Frazier, our guys don't like it..they say it's not basketball.. and that's what happened in the second half. OSU played hard and our guys don't like it."
How can hearing/reading that Currie not reach for his whose-available rollerdeck? It's an open admission of coaching ineptitude. A real coach would say "tough crap" and double down after having the team run lines for 20 minutes. I'm sure it's a complaint Frank never heard.
He will never say anything here worse than that Nino quote, it's horrendous.
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One more point on our current eFG% defense. I decided to go back and look at eFG% defense for every season since the 3PT line came into existence in 1987. This year's eFG% allowed of 51.6% is the 2nd worst over that 29 year span; only 1989 was worse at 51.8%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg540%2F2059%2FAEgCTx.png&hash=052018a79d53d1e7da0057a1fbb9f61988d1a3a0)
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One more point on our current eFG% defense. I decided to go back and look at eFG% defense for every season since the 3PT line came into existence in 1987. This year's eFG% allowed of 51.6% is the 2nd worst over that 29 year span; only 1989 was worse at 51.8%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg540%2F2059%2FAEgCTx.png&hash=052018a79d53d1e7da0057a1fbb9f61988d1a3a0)
Lon's teams must have been very gifted offensively. I guess officiating played a big role in those numbers as well.
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Of note, 1989 was the peak of eFG% for college hoops.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkenpom.com%2Fimages%2Ftrends.png&hash=cd6f5de54b796ab3addbfb4ecc62f64846acf564)
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This thread is sad. Just accept the fact that Frank acted like a big baby and left K-State.
Also, don't think for one second that Frank hasn't been placed on notice by USCe administrators regarding his behavior/ demeanor . . . Hell, they suspended his ass for verbal abuse and Currie just made him apologize for laying hands on a player in an angry fashion.
So all this pining for Frank....and that's what it really is, isn't going to change the fact that he was a huge baby who bailed on Kstate, who now realizes he can't bail every time his bosses call him for being a dick, so he's calmed down significantly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You can do whatever the hell you want if you can win. That's not a secret. Well, apparently it's a secret to John Currie.
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This thread is sad. Just accept the fact that Frank acted like a big baby and left K-State.
Also, don't think for one second that Frank hasn't been placed on notice by USCe administrators regarding his behavior/ demeanor . . . Hell, they suspended his ass for verbal abuse and Currie just made him apologize for laying hands on a player in an angry fashion.
So all this pining for Frank....and that's what it really is, isn't going to change the fact that he was a huge baby who bailed on Kstate, who now realizes he can't bail every time his bosses call him for being a dick, so he's calmed down significantly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't/don't deny any if that.
My post was mainly about basketball results on the floor and stuff.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Most good bosses don't put their subordinates in that position, specifically good employees. You can ignore the fact that Currie has had widely reported issues with the high profile head coaches, I won't.
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The power structure between coaches of D1 revenue producing and ADs is nothing like that of most bosses/employees.
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Great OP.
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It scares me that it will take more than 1 season (this season) for the oscar lovers to get it. It will likely take multiple seasons of this before we reach a tipping point. What scares me the most is that we will be looking for a new football coach at that point, we'll be mired in mediocrity, and no one will care. K-State basketball could be such an after thought because of our horrible non-combo tuck fan base that we could be on the precipice of a decade or longer period of not just mediocre, but bad basketball.
Our saving grace is Brad. Hopefully he won't spurn us like GP did.
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The power structure between coaches of D1 revenue producing and ADs is nothing like that of most bosses/employees.
Yeah. Coaches are given much more room and autonomy than employees in other fields. Although, exceptional people get many more chances to mess up than the non exceptional.
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That 57-42 Nebraska loss at home was my freshman year _FAN. Saddest thing ever. By the time I was a senior we were in the elite eight. Now I'm almost 5 years out and here we are. I hope Brad comes back.
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I doubt brad gives john Currie the time of day
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
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The power structure between coaches of D1 revenue producing and ADs is nothing like that of most bosses/employees.
It's not all that unusual for a subordinate to make more money and be much more valuable to their company than their superior. There are pro athletes, for example, but I also know first hand of cases in tech.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
It would've been pretty awesome one way or another if he'd gone that route in the hotel room and then played Jamar anyway.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
It would've been pretty awesome one way or another if he'd gone that route in the hotel room and then played Jamar anyway.
Yes!
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Oh man, that would have been amazing. I mean, at that point, what did he have to lose?
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I can't even guess what would've happened. Would they have had to sneak Jamar out to the bench once the game started? Would Currie have tried to stop it himself when Jamar checked in? :love:
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I don't think he was declared ineligible at that point right?
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
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I don't think he was declared ineligible at that point right?
He was never declared ineligible, Currie made unilateral decision suspend him while the investigation of how he got the money happening.
Frank had a lot to lose personally if he played Jamar, he certainly would have been fired and likely sold out to the NCAA by Currie. It's much harder find a job as an insubordinate NCAA cheat.
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
No.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
Frank could do that or try his luck elsewhere. As MIR has been preaching lately, good players and coaches think they are good and want to be the guy. Frank thought that he could be put into a mid-to-low tier program and make them relevant in order to prove his worth and then move up from there if he wanted. Assuming he believed he is a good/great coach, how can you be mad at him for choosing that option instead of the option to put up with Currie?
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
Frank could do that or try his luck elsewhere. As MIR has been preaching lately, good players and coaches think they are good and want to be the guy. Frank thought that he could be put into a mid-to-low tier program and make them relevant in order to prove his worth and then move up from there if he wanted. Assuming he believed he is a good/great coach, how can you be mad at him for choosing that option instead of the option to put up with Currie?
I said that I blamed him more than Currie. He can certainly leave, but if he gets another coaching job, he'll also get another boss with whom he sometimes disagrees. Maybe he should start a business and be his own boss.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
Frank could do that or try his luck elsewhere. As MIR has been preaching lately, good players and coaches think they are good and want to be the guy. Frank thought that he could be put into a mid-to-low tier program and make them relevant in order to prove his worth and then move up from there if he wanted. Assuming he believed he is a good/great coach, how can you be mad at him for choosing that option instead of the option to put up with Currie?
I said that I blamed him more than Currie. He can certainly leave, but if he gets another coaching job, he'll also get another boss with whom he sometimes disagrees. Maybe he should start a business and be his own boss.
this is kind of hard to do in coaching
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Bar bouncer academy?
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.badassdigest.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F34361%2Froad_house__span.jpg&hash=1157fb2243fd8de8eab2c95364013e6032d6c181)
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he didnt start that business tho, he was just best in the business
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
Frank could do that or try his luck elsewhere. As MIR has been preaching lately, good players and coaches think they are good and want to be the guy. Frank thought that he could be put into a mid-to-low tier program and make them relevant in order to prove his worth and then move up from there if he wanted. Assuming he believed he is a good/great coach, how can you be mad at him for choosing that option instead of the option to put up with Currie?
I said that I blamed him more than Currie. He can certainly leave, but if he gets another coaching job, he'll also get another boss with whom he sometimes disagrees. Maybe he should start a business and be his own boss.
Oversimplifying what happened certainly makes your point easier to make. This was far from the standard employee having disagreements with his boss. Let's also stop pretending that Frank chronic issues getting along with his bosses, evidence supports the opposite.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
Yeah
I don't know if Frank leaves without Currie doing what he did to Jamar, but I don't know how anyone could fault Frank for having enough at that point. The difference between Frank, Deb, and Bill wasn't any kind of unsophistication but it was options. Frank didn't have to put up with it so he didn't.
He doesn't have to deal with any of it if he just says, "Yeah, boss. Agree 100%!" How much is that to ask?
Frank could do that or try his luck elsewhere. As MIR has been preaching lately, good players and coaches think they are good and want to be the guy. Frank thought that he could be put into a mid-to-low tier program and make them relevant in order to prove his worth and then move up from there if he wanted. Assuming he believed he is a good/great coach, how can you be mad at him for choosing that option instead of the option to put up with Currie?
I said that I blamed him more than Currie. He can certainly leave, but if he gets another coaching job, he'll also get another boss with whom he sometimes disagrees. Maybe he should start a business and be his own boss.
Oversimplifying what happened certainly makes your point easier to make. This was far from the standard employee having disagreements with his boss. Let's also stop pretending that Frank chronic issues getting along with his bosses, evidence supports the opposite.
I don't see why whether or not it is on par with a standard disagreement matters. It's his fault that he didn't have the wool pulled over Currie's eyes. He wasn't smart enough.
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:lol:
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I mean, if you think part of your job is dealing with people like Curtis Malone, you'd have to be pretty naive to expect to have an open, candid relationship with your AD.
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg
Some people prefer the real thing to a pp. I'm one of those people.
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg
Go away
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Loved it.
I would be a joy to hear the OP read by Morgan Freeman or Tom Rinaldi or such.
Frank caliendo
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg
Go away
Bite me
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I'm just glad FAN made this post so that Weber gets fired within two months.
Not enough data to assume this
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I'm just glad FAN made this post so that Weber gets fired within two months.
Not enough data to assume this
The FANman succeeded getting the only two coaches fired in 20 years fired within two months. Good enuff. I'll put an extra fruit and nut cornucopia in the ksu_FAN grotto, just to be safe.
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I'm just glad FAN made this post so that Weber gets fired within two months.
Not enough data to assume this
The FANman succeeded getting the only two coaches fired in 20 years fired within two months. Good enuff. I'll put an extra fruit and nut cornucopia in the ksu_FAN grotto, just to be safe.
Tom made it another season. He actually made the postseason the year he lost me.
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There were people of substantial importance at USCe who wanted Frank fired after his absurd tirade recorded by ESPN cameras last year, and its beyond a shadow of doubt that Frank had/has to improve dramatically this year both in wins and behavior or he's likely gone.
So 2 jobs, two AD's having to deal with substantial Frank Martin behavioral issues, but there's still dumbasses in this forum who continue to blame everyone else but Frank.
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I'm just glad FAN made this post so that Weber gets fired within two months.
Not enough data to assume this
The FANman succeeded getting the only two coaches fired in 20 years fired within two months. Good enuff. I'll put an extra fruit and nut cornucopia in the ksu_FAN grotto, just to be safe.
Tom made it another season. He actually made the postseason the year he lost me.
Not helping nurture hope or your cult following saying that.
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There's also still dumbasses who think Frank deserves leeway because he wins, when to date the guy has placed exactly ZERO trophies of importance in the trophy case.
No AD is going to fall on their sword in the face of dealing with a maniac who brings an empty trophy case to the equation.
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kick their asses, dax
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:lol:
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kick their asses, dax
Nah, dumbasses need mentoring and compassion, friend.
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So dax, you get to choose our coach for the next 5 years. Here's the catch, your only choices are oscar or Frank. WHO YA GOT!?!
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Frank, ya dumbass
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I did not perceive that from your posts. Thanks for responding.
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Frank, ya dumbass
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*fap fap fap* - dax thinking about frank
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I'm amazed at the inability of people to separate oscar's problems with Frank and his tenure. Why shouldn't we look back to prior years to see the success we've had and compare it with the dumpster fire that oscar is turning K-State hoops into.
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There's also still dumbasses who think Frank deserves leeway because he wins, when to date the guy has placed exactly ZERO trophies of importance in the trophy case.
No AD is going to fall on their sword in the face of dealing with a maniac who brings an empty trophy case to the equation.
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Really a maniac? Hyperbolic anyone?
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Dumbass is a term of endearment for my generation
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Who says we can't compare?
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There's also still dumbasses who think Frank deserves leeway because he wins, when to date the guy has placed exactly ZERO trophies of importance in the trophy case.
No AD is going to fall on their sword in the face of dealing with a maniac who brings an empty trophy case to the equation.
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Really a maniac? Hyperbolic anyone?
. If the rant fits....
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Who says we can't compare?
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saying that people complaining about oscar in this thread were "pining" for Frank?
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Who says we can't compare?
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saying that people complaining about oscar in this thread were "pining" for Frank?
Come on bro, you know it is.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
I think 'clams nailed it.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
Yeah. I remember after the game Frank saying something along the lines of "you'll have to talk to my boss john Currie about that". Gonzo
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
I really don't think Currie was guided by principles when he made that decision, I think he knew exactly what the repercussions would be. He's absolutely smart enough to know that completing an earnest investigation and being open, honest, and prompt with the NCAA would have kept the institution out off hot water. Jamar accepting that money did not jeopardize his amateur status. There have been scores of players before that and since who have competed while their university and/or the NCAA have investigated claims of that player receiving impermissible benefits.
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dickfuck weber
I think 'clams nailed it.
Yeah.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
I really don't think Currie was guided by principles when he made that decision, I think he knew exactly what the repercussions would be. He's absolutely smart enough to know that completing an earnest investigation and being open, honest, and prompt with the NCAA would have kept the institution out off hot water. Jamar accepting that money did not jeopardize his amateur status. There have been scores of players before that and since who have competed while their university and/or the NCAA have investigated claims of that player receiving impermissible benefits.
so your take is currie wanted to bench jamar and cost the cats any real chance we had in that game just for the hell of it?
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
I really don't think Currie was guided by principles when he made that decision, I think he knew exactly what the repercussions would be. He's absolutely smart enough to know that completing an earnest investigation and being open, honest, and prompt with the NCAA would have kept the institution out off hot water. Jamar accepting that money did not jeopardize his amateur status. There have been scores of players before that and since who have competed while their university and/or the NCAA have investigated claims of that player receiving impermissible benefits.
so your take is currie wanted to bench jamar and cost the cats any real chance we had in that game just for the hell of it?
Not really for the hell of it, there were two benefits; eliminated any chance at all of the NCAA having a problem although that chance was extremely slim, and two it was a chance to get rid of Frank because he certainly couldn't fire him. They had a meeting before the suspension, Currie absolutely knew how Frank felt about the suspension. It's also not a huge leap to make that Frank knew that reporting incident and a university investigation satisfied any burden until the completed investigation and ruling. Currie wasn't helpless, again there is plenty of precedent with cases like this, I can only think of Currie and a recent case, I'll look it up after this post, where an AD preemptively suspended the player.
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Yeah, I think Currie wanted Kstate to lose. Let's roll with that goEMAW.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
Since Currie gets so much flack over the whole situation here, I just think it's worth noting that Frank could have handled his business differently and outsmarted Currie. If anything, he was too good of a subordinate in that regard.
In terms of wins/losses, I don't think hiring Weber was a bad decision as long as Currie lets him go after a couple of bad seasons.
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Yeah, I think Currie wanted Kstate to lose. Let's roll with that goEMAW.
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I don't think anyone said or even hinted at Currie wanting K-State to lose to Syracuse, I'm not sure if that entered his mindset that Friday evening or not. I do know that given rumors and confirmed info from people ITK, if Currie was given the choice to lose that game to gain control of a supposed runaway program with a rogue coach and players fleeing the ship he would have seriously thought about making a small sacrifice for a greater good.
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I've decided that I blame Frank more than Currie. If your boss tells you to do something, you just say "Yes, boss!" even if you plan to totally disregard what your boss just said. Frank was just too unsophisticated and honest.
the problem is that frank was gone the minute currie benched jamar
this wasn't ever about insubordination or frank not wanting to listen to his boss
frank is a loyal guy to his players and benching jam sam the morning of his last game for the bullshit he did was something that was unforgivable for frank and at that point the relationship was over and frank was out
it's hard to fault frank or currie as they both were following their core principles. just be mad at currie for hiring dickfuck weber
I really don't think Currie was guided by principles when he made that decision, I think he knew exactly what the repercussions would be. He's absolutely smart enough to know that completing an earnest investigation and being open, honest, and prompt with the NCAA would have kept the institution out off hot water. Jamar accepting that money did not jeopardize his amateur status. There have been scores of players before that and since who have competed while their university and/or the NCAA have investigated claims of that player receiving impermissible benefits.
so your take is currie wanted to bench jamar and cost the cats any real chance we had in that game just for the hell of it?
Not really for the hell of it, there were two benefits; eliminated any chance at all of the NCAA having a problem although that chance was extremely slim, and two it was a chance to get rid of Frank because he certainly couldn't fire him. They had a meeting before the suspension, Currie absolutely knew how Frank felt about the suspension. It's also not a huge leap to make that Frank knew that reporting incident and a university investigation satisfied any burden until the completed investigation and ruling. Currie wasn't helpless, again there is plenty of precedent with cases like this, I can only think of Currie and a recent case, I'll look it up after this post, where an AD preemptively suspended the player.
i agree that currie screwed up by playing it safe and suspending jamar, i just don't think he did it in an effort to push out frank. i don't believe that at all. currie's success is measured by the success of his coaches... and we all know these guys weren't buddies, but it seems like an incredible risk to knowingly push out a winning coach, former b12 coy, elite 8 coach, a coach getting ready to play in his 4th ncaa tournament in 5 tries. a coach with very solid fan support. i can't believe it's a risk that currie would take.
i understand the precedent that currie could have relied upon in an effort to protect the dept from any type of ncaa sanctions/penalties, i just think he chose the safe route. this makes logical sense to me, your scenario doesn't. and in the end, currie's decision was one that for frank was unforgivable.
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if you want to tell me that currie underestimated frank's loyalty to his players, and his reaction to currie's benching jamar, i'll buy that. but i can't believe he knew his actions would result in frank essentially quitting on the spot.
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Both of your scenarios are certainly more likely
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i'm 70% sure of the following...
currie told jamar before he even told frank. that was bush league and probably made frank more upset than anything because it was currie directly interjecting himself into the team and it should have been frank's job to tell jamar. that's on currie.
when currie finally told frank, frank blew up and lost self control w/ currie to the point that other people in the room had to hold him back. that's on frank.
after that there was no turning back and i don't think frank could have returned even if he had wanted to. i think it was done before frank even coached the last game. both were idiots w/ the thing but i think it was a culmination of years of stuff each had bottled up against the other that finally boiled over. untenable situation with plenty of blame to go around.
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I think Daris has the best summary of the situation, the only question I still have is why Currie poked a successful head coach the way he did.
I mean, when it happened i figured Currie had a pretty good idea who he was going to hire and I don't think that guy was oscar. I do recall some flippant quote from Currie about people not wanting somebody that played at KU which I took to mean donors didn't want Tad Boyle but that shouldn't of been a surprise, 90% of this fan base defines itself by hating KU.
I am afraid all the jokes about Dallas hotel rooms, spreadsheets, crappy search firms and other "parts of the process" are really how he hires coaches - it's almost scary enough to make me #seansnyder4hc
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I think Currie had decided way before Jamar & The Trash Can that he was replacing Frank at season-end, and had started feeling around for replacements in late January or February. Also think Frank knew this and probably had his guys looking for any prospective jobs. The Jamar thing and the way Currie handled the people involved was just one last way for him to max-Currie-tweak Frank, and the way Frank reacted was his parting shot.
It was known oscar would be "available" in that same January and February range, and I think he was always high on Currie's list, if not the entirety of the list.
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welp boys, i think we just came up with the subject for Serial Podcast season 2. someone get ahold of koenig and let's start rolling tape.
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The Dallas Hotel room will go down in K-State infamy. Like Dealy plaza
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i think it's entirely possible that jamie vaughn was just a red ass and currie took his word for jamar guidance and the situation was just handled terribly. that probably maikes the most sense.
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Once again, in looking back at all the SLTH, Mid-Major wannabe's and the like that the Frankites wanted to replace Frank, Weber was still probably the best available in terms of who K-State had a realistic shot of hiring.
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welp boys, i think we just came up with the subject for Serial Podcast season 2. someone get ahold of koenig and let's start rolling tape.
Just had a flashback to the KC big 12 tourney gE podcast when experienced radio DJamer pissclams got the mic.
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The Dallas Hotel room will go down in K-State infamy. Like Dealy plaza
That hotel room should be the place worth visiting anytime someone has an extended layover in DFW. gE should have a plaque hung outside the door.
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i think it's entirely possible that jamie vaughn was just a red ass and currie took his word for jamar guidance and the situation was just handled terribly. that probably maikes the most sense.
Currie big timing Frank by telling Jamar first kinda makes this less likely, imo
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Quote from Weber postgame:
"When our coaches play hard in practice, Coach Frazier, our guys don't like it..they say it's not basketball.. and that's what happened in the second half. OSU played hard and our guys don't like it."
How can hearing/reading that Currie not reach for his whose-available rollerdeck? It's an open admission of coaching ineptitude. A real coach would say "tough crap" and double down after having the team run lines for 20 minutes. I'm sure it's a complaint Frank never heard.
He will never say anything here worse than that Nino quote, it's horrendous.
I remember in one post game PC he talked about taking Chester Frazier to the wizard of oz to help him find a brain. And Frazier was actually a guy he liked.
I also remember him telling the press how Demitri McCamey went home over thanksgiving and sat around getting fat.
When Brian Carlwell transferred out of IL, he also talked about him being overweight and basically lazy, not having the commitment to do the work necessary to succeed.
The point is, don't underestimate the depths Bubbles will sink to when it comes to calling out players to the press.
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Quote from Weber postgame:
"When our coaches play hard in practice, Coach Frazier, our guys don't like it..they say it's not basketball.. and that's what happened in the second half. OSU played hard and our guys don't like it."
How can hearing/reading that Currie not reach for his whose-available rollerdeck? It's an open admission of coaching ineptitude. A real coach would say "tough crap" and double down after having the team run lines for 20 minutes. I'm sure it's a complaint Frank never heard.
He will never say anything here worse than that Nino quote, it's horrendous.
I remember in one post game PC he talked about taking Chester Frazier to the wizard of oz to help him find a brain. And Frazier was actually a guy he liked.
I also remember him telling the press how Demitri McCamey went home over thanksgiving and sat around getting fat.
When Brian Carlwell transferred out of IL, he also talked about him being overweight and basically lazy, not having the commitment to do the work necessary to succeed.
The point is, don't underestimate the depths Bubbles will sink to when it comes to calling out players to the press.
1 & 2 are fine. 3 is the only one similar to the nino quote, and while both are bad they're bad in different ways because nino hasn't transferred/quit/expired yet.
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welp boys, i think we just came up with the subject for Serial Podcast season 2. someone get ahold of koenig and let's start rolling tape.
Just had a flashback to the KC big 12 tourney gE podcast when experienced radio DJamer pissclams got the mic.
i was obviously the person best fit to set the tone of that podcast
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all kidding aside, it's obvious that no one here has played big time college hoops. these types of messages can be sent through a variety of channels - whether it be text, media, email, "snail mail" <--lol, in the locker room, at IHOP, regardless- the light a fire under a team's ass. they tell a player who could transfer to almost any d1 team, "listen up fella, go out there and score points and play well".
sad that some of you don't realize it.
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i'm 70% sure of the following...
currie told jamar before he even told frank. that was bush league and probably made frank more upset than anything because it was currie directly interjecting himself into the team and it should have been frank's job to tell jamar. that's on currie.
when currie finally told frank, frank blew up and lost self control w/ currie to the point that other people in the room had to hold him back. that's on frank.
after that there was no turning back and i don't think frank could have returned even if he had wanted to. i think it was done before frank even coached the last game. both were idiots w/ the thing but i think it was a culmination of years of stuff each had bottled up against the other that finally boiled over. untenable situation with plenty of blame to go around.
Wish the guys holding Frank back would have let him go so he could have given Currie the 'Ol Cuban night club bouncer punch in the face, sending him to the hospital, then Frank plays Jamar. That would be going down in style.
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Absolutely, 100% believe that it was incompetence that led to Frank leaving not some sort of scheme that Currie masterminded.
I just think John was fundamentally unable to handle Frank. There were a ton of times this was apparent:
Pay Frank, Cursing/Hitting Apology, Miami flirtation, Curt etc. It was constant drama and not all of it is at the feet of John in the sense that Frank was absolutely acting like a crazy person. But as I've always said, John's job is to keep the talent happy. He's not the talent.
Rough Sketch Formula of Frank's Meltdown/Departure:
(Casey Scott + Curt + Jamar) X (Frank ego)^2 X (John ego)^2
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where is the tipping point of when if we win out the rest of our regular season games we still dont make the tournament? the point of no theoretical return? 3 more losses?
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where is the tipping point of when if we win out the rest of our regular season games we still dont make the tournament? the point of no theoretical return? 3 more losses?
We always will have that chance at a magic ticket in the Big 12 tourney.
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Our schedule is so backloaded that 10-8, maybe 9-9 with multiple wins out of the KU, ISU, and Texas games puts back on the bubble, imo. I guess I would say the break over point would be the 10th loss.
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Our schedule is so backloaded that 10-8, maybe 9-9 with multiple wins out of the KU, ISU, and Texas games puts back on the bubble, imo. I guess I would say the break over point would be the 10th loss.
Yeah, right now on kenpom, everyone in the league besides TCU and Tech are Top 25 teams. Even TCU is Top 50 right now. Granted, it won't stay that way, but the league had a very good OOC (besides us) so there are plenty of quality wins to be had in this league. I think we'd have to get to at least 10 or 11 total league wins and at least 2-3 of those be against Top 20 teams, but its doable considering the quality of the league this year. It will be very tough though.
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sorry, i didn't really mean to trick anyone into imagining it was possible. just a thought experiment.
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sorry, i didn't really mean to trick anyone into imagining it was possible. just a thought experiment.
Just have to win 4 games in 4 days. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
Let that sink in for a minute . . .
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4 days
:barf:
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4 days
:barf:
you are looking at this wrong, there will never be a better opportunity to heckle express your thoughts on the state of program to the AD as one of a few hundred souls in the Sprint Center on Wednesday
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Pretty great point.
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4 days
:barf:
you are looking at this wrong, there will never be a better opportunity to heckle express your thoughts on the state of program to the AD as one of a few hundred souls in the Sprint Center on Wednesday
Wednesdays are rough ridin' gross and - not gE'n - hurt the image of our program.
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I will not watch a game played on a Wednesday.
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Our schedule is so backloaded that 10-8, maybe 9-9 with multiple wins out of the KU, ISU, and Texas games puts back on the bubble, imo. I guess I would say the break over point would be the 10th loss.
Yeah, right now on kenpom, everyone in the league besides TCU and Tech are Top 25 teams. Even TCU is Top 50 right now. Granted, it won't stay that way, but the league had a very good OOC (besides us) so there are plenty of quality wins to be had in this league. I think we'd have to get to at least 10 or 11 total league wins and at least 2-3 of those be against Top 20 teams, but its doable considering the quality of the league this year. It will be very tough though.
If we went 10-8 we'd be 17-15. So no, it still wouldn't be enough. We have so many terrible loses, I don't even know. Maybe 12-6 would do it. Again, just a thought experiment here.
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Absolutely, 100% believe that it was incompetence that led to Frank leaving not some sort of scheme that Currie masterminded.
I just think John was fundamentally unable to handle Frank.
I wouldn't consider what I proposed Currie did as some grand scheme. Really the only difference between what I said and what others said is that I think he knew what Frank would do when he made that decision and that either factored heavily in the decision or he smiled when he knew that sonofabitch would be gone and it wouldn't cost him any money.
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crazy how much can change in two weeks. i read _FAN's post two weeks ago in full agreement that south carolina had surpassed us, but now i'm not so sure.
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i'm also probably drunk and high on a misleading 4-1 right now
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crazy how much can change in two weeks. i read _FAN's post two weeks ago in full agreement that south carolina had surpassed us, but now i'm not so sure.
Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
i'm also probably drunk and high on a misleading 4-1 right now
And this.
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If ku loses right now, we would be tied for first in the conf, I think.
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crazy how much can change in two weeks. i read _FAN's post two weeks ago in full agreement that south carolina had surpassed us, but now i'm not so sure.
Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
i'm also probably drunk and high on a misleading 4-1 right now
And this.
Emotionally drunk.
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If ku loses right now, we would be tied for first in the conf, I think.
Right now:
TEAM CONF OVERALL
Kansas 3-0 14-2
Kansas St 4-1 11-7
Iowa State 2-1 12-3
West Virginia 3-2 15-3
Oklahoma 3-2 12-5
Texas 2-2 13-4
Baylor 2-3 13-4
Oklahoma St 2-3 12-5
TCU 1-3 14-3
Texas Tech 0-5 10-8
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Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
it's the same team. could have easily won the texas southern and uga games, could have easily lost the ou and bu games.
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Are there 6 more wins in this schedule? I don't see it.
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Are there 6 more wins in this schedule? I don't see it.
did you see a 4 game winning streak 4 games ago?
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Yea
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Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
it's the same team. could have easily won the texas southern and uga games, could have easily lost the ou and bu games.
THIS
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Frank cutterntly making a second half comeback, BTW.
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Tough loss for Frank. That's a shame. Since OP, South Carolina has lost 3 of 4. K-State, of couse, is 4-0.
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I think the OP was a satire post tho Chum
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I think the OP was a satire post tho Chum
Obviously. Everything turns out just how we knew it would.
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:rolleyes:
This was a good post. (Probably)
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Haven't we just gone through the easier part of the conf schedule? 7 of next 8 games against ranked teams, 4 are on the road.
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Haven't we just gone through the easier part of the conf schedule? 7 of next 8 games against ranked teams, 4 are on the road.
Yeah we've had 1 very good win and 1 good win, the schedule is about to turn brutal
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Haven't we just gone through the easier part of the conf schedule? 7 of next 8 games against ranked teams, 4 are on the road.
Of course, but NO ONE thought we'd be better than 2-3 at this point, if that. I'll take a good start with two quality wins.
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Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
it's the same team. could have easily won the texas southern and uga games, could have easily lost the ou and bu games.
Foster hasn't been in the doghouse
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Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
it's the same team. could have easily won the texas southern and uga games, could have easily lost the ou and bu games.
Foster hasn't been in the doghouse
I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
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Yeah, I honestly didn't expect this. Granted, I thought we could and probably would at some point play better than we were then, but the wins over OU and BU are significant.
it's the same team. could have easily won the texas southern and uga games, could have easily lost the ou and bu games.
Foster hasn't been in the doghouse
I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
True, it probably just made the osu game a bit uglier of a loss. But it's a definite difference.
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Foster hasn't been in the doghouse
did pretty well with him on the bench today.
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Foster hasn't been in the doghouse
did pretty well with him on the bench today.
That didn't have anything to do with him sitting though. I have no idea how Nino does what he does, but damn :applause:
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he's been in college for 7 years so he better have an understanding of the game
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I have no idea how Nino does what he does, but damn :applause:
he makes mid-range jumpers. it's a lost art.
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I have no idea how Nino does what he does, but damn :applause:
he makes baseline mid-range jumpers. it's a lost art.
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He's like kryptonite for Baylor's zone. He's a short corner/baseline monster.
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It's the rebounding and defense too though. He's a 6'4" power forward with limited physical tools but he is effective in a big 5 conference. He's like every Kansas 5 and 6A big but he's made himself into a quality D1 contributor, its odd.
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strong as eff.
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Nino was a face up guy in HS tho and I wish he didn't cover the ball for 5 seconds after securing a dreb like he is Lu Colon
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its not like we have a super high tempo offense. secure the ball, and make a good outlet pass, we dont need more TO's
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strong as eff.
Yeah, theres that. Those Baylor forwards are freaking tanks and he had no problem banging with them.
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I would like to see him do it when we are on one of those horrible droughts that Posse documents all too well
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nino plays really hard
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nino plays really hard
He's fun to watch. Sweetest jumper we've had from 10 ft in quite sometime.
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nino plays really hard
He's fun to watch. Sweetest jumper we've had from 10 ft baseline in quite sometime.
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
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even the gum is gone, innit?
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
ppl always wanna point at what oscar isn't doing. I like to look at the other side. What a turnaround. This guy can coach!
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If oscar could coach then we wouldn't have lost half the non-con games that we did. You know that, right?
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I remember getting hammered by KU Nino's freshmen year and Nino coming in and giving T-Rob all he could handle. He has a good combination strength, quickness and motor.
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
ppl always wanna point at what oscar isn't doing. I like to look at the other side. What a turnaround. This guy can coach!
I agree Wack. They play to well when oscar can keep their heads screwed on straight.
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
ppl always wanna point at what oscar isn't doing. I like to look at the other side. What a turnaround. This guy can coach!
I agree Wack. They play to well when oscar can keep their heads screwed on straight.
As long as oscar can keep his own head screwed on straight. Just sayin'
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
The benching was stupid and didn't work. He was benched for the second half against Georgia, we lost. He was benched against OSU, he played his worst game ever, was completely checked out on the bench, and we lost. He played more minutes against TCU, OU, Tech, and Baylor, played better and we won all of those games. He played better because he is very talented, he played more minutes, and he was engaged. It seems obvious to me that looking at the OSU and Georgia games are striking examples of the benching not working, but your confirmation bias doesn't allow you to see the obvious. There is plenty of praise on these boards for oscar today, praising him for this is disingenuous and stupid.
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I'm not sure oscar's doghouse cost us the OSU game but it may have cost us the Georgia game.
And this is the end of the story if we pretend MF2's attitude and effort hasn't changed since the benching...
The benching was stupid and didn't work. He was benched for the second half against Georgia, we lost. He was benched against OSU, he played his worst game ever, was completely checked out on the bench, and we lost. He played more minutes against TCU, OU, Tech, and Baylor, played better and we won all of those games. He played better because he is very talented, he played more minutes, and he was engaged. It seems obvious to me that looking at the OSU and Georgia games are striking examples of the benching not working, but your confirmation bias doesn't allow you to see the obvious. There is plenty of praise on these boards for oscar today, praising him for this is disingenuous and stupid.
It's not necessarily that absolute. It was obviously going to be a struggle with Foster languishing on the bench and being ineffective when he did play, but he's played well and come up in big moments since. It's tough to say whether the benching had anything to do with his play since, but he's definitely been better.
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I feel like nino finishes well too.
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It's tough to say whether the benching had anything to do with his play since, but he's definitely been better.
It's actually very easy to say it had zero effect. His defense was just as lazy against TCU and OU as it supposedly was against Georgia and OSU. All players have ups and downs with shooting that are almost always related to nothing.
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Foster gets the attention, but oscar also has been playing the no start/playing time game with other guys too.
Nino played a combined 26 minutes vs Georgia and OSU. Westicles had a stretch where he didn't play much. Edwards has done his share of sitting. Gip didn't start. Thomas missed a start. The Jevon/Nigel yo yo.
Its not like this is exclusive to one guy.
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Maybe Frank needs to up his benching game since South Carolina is currently 11th in the SEC standings.
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It's the rebounding and defense too though. He's a 6'4" power forward with limited physical tools but he is effective in a big 5 conference. He's like every Kansas 5 and 6A big but he's made himself into a quality D1 contributor, its odd.
When I read this, I just thought of David Hoskins.
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Hoskins had crazy athleticism
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The people refusing to give oscar any credit for Foster's turnaround are looking really rough ridin' desperate in this thread.
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The people refusing to give oscar any credit for Foster's turnaround are looking really rough ridin' desperate in this thread.
He's not any better than he was before those 2 games. We're not giving oscar credit because there was no turnaround. People who didn't favor the best benching aren't going to give him credit because there is a philosophical disagreement with the benching. These conversations were happening before the TCU and OU games, it has nothing to do with desperation.
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Wasn't foster more productive prior to getting Bruced around?
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Wasn't foster more productive prior to getting Bruced around?
I'm trying to do a Big 12 only per 100s, but statsheet won't update from yesterday's games.
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The people refusing to give oscar any credit for Foster's turnaround are looking really rough ridin' desperate in this thread.
He's not any better than he was before those 2 games. We're not giving oscar credit because there was no turnaround. People who didn't favor the best benching aren't going to give him credit because there is a philosophical disagreement with the benching. These conversations were happening before the TCU and OU games, it has nothing to do with desperation.
Desperate.
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http://m.cjonline.com/sports/2012-03-31/weber-not-coach-some-fans-wanted#gsc.tab=0
We just need more heroes like this guy to keep the heat on oscar and continue to demand results
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http://m.cjonline.com/sports/2012-03-31/weber-not-coach-some-fans-wanted#gsc.tab=0
We just need more heroes like this guy to keep the heat on oscar and continue to demand results
Yes!
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Seeing as the problem was the selfishness of an individual or individuals, looking at individual "productivity" of those players is dumb (desperate). I'll take collective team effort and success, which is obviously better.
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Seeing as the problem was the selfishness of an individual or individuals, looking at individual "productivity" of those players is dumb (desperate). I'll take collective team effort and success, which is obviously better.
Those two things are obviously mutually exclusive.
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http://m.cjonline.com/sports/2012-03-31/weber-not-coach-some-fans-wanted#gsc.tab=0
We just need more heroes like this guy to keep the heat on oscar and continue to demand results
What a stud.
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bet that guy LOVES new girl
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It's the rebounding and defense too though. He's a 6'4" power forward with limited physical tools but he is effective in a big 5 conference. He's like every Kansas 5 and 6A big but he's made himself into a quality D1 contributor, its odd.
When I read this, I just thought of David Hoskins.
"Dave's good. Dave tries."
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spent a couple of minutes looking at s carolina's kenpom's. they look like a half decent bet for a tournament team next year. their biggest problem this year was shooting. the guy that they need to shoot better (thornwell) shot just 27% this year, but looks like he should revert to a higher mean. the other semi-high volume shooter looks like he should stay around/above 35% and they have multiple candidates on the team and with the incoming recruits for a third shooter to emerge. they only lose one senior (fff had a great saying about that).
even with their abysmal offense this year, their defense was good enough that their kenpom was better than their record and next year should see kenpom improvement. the tough part is not many sec teams tend to get in the tournament. sometimes we forget how nice it is to be a member of an overrated conference.
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what was their ORB% rFT?
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what was their ORB% rFT?
34.6% (59th), ft/fg was just 37.3 (160th).
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I don't think he is going to make it. hope he does though.
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http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
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http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
ouch!
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To be fair, oscar's book is probably out of print. It also didn't say if it was signed by oscar.
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To be fair, oscar's book is probably out of print. It also didn't say if it was signed by oscar.
Have hemmy print this and put it in the FattyFest auction: http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=34752.0
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usc is in a complete tailspin. meanwhile weber is slapping the hands that boo him.
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To be fair, oscar's book is probably out of print. It also didn't say if it was signed by oscar.
I have a signed copy of oscar's book. I want to donate it for fattyfest.
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usc is in a complete tailspin.
:cry:
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Lost to Bama at home, bad loss. Loss to Arkansas (good team) at home, not a bad loss. Tonight lost at Vandy, weird gym.