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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 03, 2015, 02:00:18 PM
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This is a mess. oscar has lost his best player and one of the most promising sophomores this program has ever seen. The only consistency with this team is inconsistency as they continue the mind numbing trend of pretty good and completely terrible halves of basketball. The PGs continue to rack up TOs (2 assists to 7 TOs from Jevon/Nigel today). Gip has finally brought what we all hoped for and we even got a peek of what we expected from Edwards (at least in the first half). But it appears it all is for naught as this team continues to spiral downward. Its a sad as K-State basketball has looked since the 01-02 season when the Cats sat at 6-6 and 0-1 on January 5th. That team would go on to finish 12-15, 6-10 and this group appears on a similar path. What's worse, the program looks to be on the road to losing its best 2 players this year and facing a new beginning completely or year 4 of oscar basically being (another) rebuilding job for the program.
What a terrible week to be a Cat fan.
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6-10 was pretty good for that 01-02 team IIRC
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If you start thinking of these losses as a means to an end, then it's not so terrible.
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If you start thinking of these losses as a means to an end, then it's not so terrible.
they aren't, oscar will be back. Have you seen the attitudes of his players? :yuck:
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If you start thinking of these losses as a means to an end, then it's not so terrible.
they aren't, oscar will be back. Have you seen the attitudes of his players? :yuck:
A winless conference season would get him fired
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If you start thinking of these losses as a means to an end, then it's not so terrible.
they aren't, oscar will be back. Have you seen the attitudes of his players? :yuck:
A winless conference season would get him fired
possibly, that's an extreme long shot, though.
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How come good players don't want to play for oscar?
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I need to know what happened to Wes. I thought he had a chance for All-Conference honors.
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Pretty surprised by the TO% it seemed like we turned it over on every other possession in the 2nd half.
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_FAN, can you add a column for Adversity? I don't know if we have enough data to support this, but I suspect we're building that number up quite a bit before flipping the Overcome switch.
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How come good players don't want to play for oscar?
Antiquated offense and a seeming us against them attitude as it relates to oscar and his players. Frank was sometimes cruel to his players but they loved him because he wasn't running a fiefdom from an ivory tower. It's easier to pile expectations on not just players but people in all walks of life when those people like you. Frank's players loved him, even the ones who left, like Dom. People mocked the players calling him Frank instead of coach but it worked, they always knew he had their best interests in mind. I don't know about what happened at Illinois but I have not heard a player here talk about oscar like they did Frank. The only player I can remember talking about oscar with any endearment was Spradling and his comments were essentially, he isn't mean to me like Frank was.
Long story short; oscar is a it's not my fault jagoff with a terribly boring and restrictive offense to run.
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_FAN, can you add a column for Adversity? I don't know if we have enough data to support this, but I suspect we're building that number up quite a bit before flipping the Overcome switch.
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^
oscar is a gnarled and gnome-like casualty of battles abandoned when u think abt it
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We also need to discuss how Travis Freaking Ford mushed oscar. Ford put Forte on Wes. oscar too busy forcing square pegs into round holes, didn't allow Wes to post that midget up. Gotta stay in system!
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How come good players don't want to play for oscar?
Antiquated offense and a seeming us against them attitude as it relates to oscar and his players. Frank was sometimes cruel to his players but they loved him because he wasn't running a fiefdom from an ivory tower. It's easier to pile expectations on not just players but people in all walks of life when those people like you. Frank's players loved him, even the ones who left, like Dom. People mocked the players calling him Frank instead of coach but it worked, they always knew he had their best interests in mind. I don't know about what happened at Illinois but I have not heard a player here talk about oscar like they did Frank. The only player I can remember talking about oscar with any endearment was Spradling and his comments were essentially, he isn't mean to me like Frank was.
Long story short; oscar is a it's not my fault jagoff with a terribly boring and restrictive offense to run.
:thumbs: :thumbs:
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I think Frank's players who gave effort, knew he wasn't going to put up with laziness from those who didn't. Story had Asprella (?) was nearly thrown from the gym.
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I think Frank's players who gave effort, knew he wasn't going to put up with laziness from those who didn't. Story had Asprella (?) was nearly thrown from the gym.
Frank should get credit for the unwavering expectation of effort, but when you get what we had most of credit should go to culture within the players.
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Remember Rodney as a freshman diving on the floor and losing teeth? Who would do that this year?
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I think Frank's players who gave effort, knew he wasn't going to put up with laziness from those who didn't. Story had Asprella (?) was nearly thrown from the gym.
Frank should get credit for the unwavering expectation of effort, but when you get what we had most of credit should go to culture within the players.
Certain people Twitter talked about how this team is missing Spradling but it's obvious Marcus didn't learn how to make his team tough from Will. If Marcus had to compete with Angel for two years, how much tougher would he be? Angel was arguably, not my argument, the toughest player of the Frank Martin era.
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I thought Gettys made a salient point about Weber's benching of Foster. It's one thing to bench a guy to send a message. Coaches do it all the time, but at some point you have to figure out if the message was received. Weber's problem seems to lie in the second part of that equation.
Either way, this collapse, and the history of shipwrecks at Illinois, spell rough waters ahead for KSU.
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
LOL, okay. I have Spradling, Nino, Wally, and maybe Nick Russell in the hate column. Anyone else I'm forgetting.
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Did Nino really hate him?
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
LOL, okay. I have Spradling, Nino, Wally, and maybe Nick Russell in the hate column. Anyone else I'm forgetting.
I don't think Ron Anderson cared much for Frank
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Can when break free of the frank v. oscar paradigm? It's rough ridin' boring and lends itself to entirely too much fantasy.
They both suck, one is a maniac and the other puddin'
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Point being most of these players sucked and were irrelevant.
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
LOL, okay. I have Spradling, Nino, Wally, and maybe Nick Russell in the hate column. Anyone else I'm forgetting.
I think he and Nick are good. There's still some communication issues w/Frank being in the eastern time zone, but they work it out.
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well i just watched it and we rough ridin' suck you guys :flush:
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:thumbs:
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Point being most of these players sucked and were irrelevant.
Yeah, so other than Will, guys who were worked hard but didn't play
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Buchi's block against NU at home :love:
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Can when break free of the frank v. oscar paradigm? It's rough ridin' boring and lends itself to entirely too much fantasy.
They both suck, one is a maniac and the other puddin'
No thanks
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Big gip is our only hope
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
Yeah, but even the players that hated Frank played their tails off for him when they were here while winning at a 70% clip.
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
Yeah, but even the players that hated Frank played their tails off for him when they were here while winning at a 70% clip.
How Machiavellian
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Buchi's block against NU at home :love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ)
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For every player that "loved" Frank, two hated him. This is not a secret
Yeah, but even the players that hated Frank played their tails off for him when they were here while winning at a 70% clip.
How Machiavellian
Not really, seems to me that a lot of his former players have a lot of respect for him.
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Buchi's block against NU at home :love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ)
Those were the best uniforms ever.
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Buchi awaji and Freddy Asprilla probably weren't fans. Or that big that played at cincy. Or Andre Gilbert
Buchi's block against NU at home :love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugxK0_kLpPQ)
Those were the best uniforms ever.
The whites were okay but the blacks and purples :love:
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
HOLY crap! That's scorched earth.
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
HOLY crap! That's scorched earth.
Has a coach ever thrown an individual under the bus so unequivocally? My initial research isn't turning up anything.
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oh wow :buh-bye:
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What's funny is between somehow getting the texas southern game over in regulation and now talking bad about nino, I've been pretty happy with oscar this past week or so.
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Weber badmouthing someone on consistency is ironic.
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Weber badmouthing someone on consistency is ironic.
:thumbs:
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
Omfg. seriously eff Weber.
#TheWesIsTheFuture
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Don't be rubes. He's trying to motivate him. It might work.
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Don't be rubes. He's trying to motivate him. It might work.
Come on man
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Don't be rubes. He's trying to motivate him. It might work.
Different people respond to different things.
Come on man
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im sure going through the media is the best way to get through to nino
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Don't be rubes. He's trying to motivate him. It might work.
Come on man
Different people respond to different things.
So there should be no regard for the words he uses and the situation in which he's motivating? Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt he hasn't earned and assume this was a motivational ploy, what said the timing and manner in which it was said is rough ridin' awful.
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I think he and Nick are good. There's still some communication issues w/Frank being in the eastern time zone, but they work it out.
well i of course enjoyed this
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After his (hugs) initial recruiting class and crew of transfers, the program was obviously declining. Recruiting was bad. Weber picked it up the last two years and then we get hit in the face with this crap.
Frank's teams often started slow and had struggles, but nothing like this.
The point is, we deserve better than both.
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
Wow
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Kinda Charlie Weisish
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Did Nino really hate him?
If he didn't certainly followed Suther's orders. I thought was later revealed the exodus was just Will and Nino :dunno:
“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article5395284.html#storylink=cpy
HOLY crap! That's scorched earth.
It's like a carbon copy of the crap he said the year he got fired at Illinois. Uncanny or not all really.
Weber was hard on his players, pointing out Leonard's lack of effort in the first half against Purdue.
"Meyers can't have horrible body language," Weber said. "The first half he walked around. This is our desperation game; he walked up and down the court. It can't happen. He's got to change. We're not doing him justice if we don't make him change."
http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7582029/frustrated-illinois-fighting-illini-coach-oscar-weber-clarifies-remarks (http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7582029/frustrated-illinois-fighting-illini-coach-oscar-weber-clarifies-remarks)
Kansas State coach oscar Weber made a point to praise Oklahoma State guard Phil Forte, who scored 20 points and made three of seven three-pointers.
“That dude, he’s just a tough, little feisty bugger,” Weber said. “You’ve got to love a kid like that. He fights every play, whether he makes baskets or not. You’ve got to love how hard he competes and loves to play. That’s why he’s won. We just don’t have that. I think Thomas Gipson wants to, but it’s hard when your big guy is the guy that’s doing that. We need somebody to be that competitive, feisty guy.”
Weber praised Purdue's leadership and questioned his own players.
"(Purdue's Robbie Hummel), Draymond (Green), Aaron (Craft), those are three guys you wish you could coach because they really, truly care about the team and winning," Weber said. "That's the most important thing for them.
"I think Tracy (Abrams) has a chance. He played with great heart (Wednesday). The problem is he's our leader (as a freshman). That's the problem. He's the one talking after the game in the locker room."
"The sad thing about the whole thing, and I guess it's my fault, is instead of creating toughness and developing a team, I coached not to lose all year," Weber said.
"Instead of developing people, I'm worried about winning. Maybe sit Meyers down three weeks ago or a month ago or two months ago. And Brandon (Paul). But that's my fault. You've got to develop a culture and I think the last three years all I did was worry about winning instead of developing a culture and a toughness. And that's my fault."
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger-college-basketball-blog/oscar-weber-latest-presser-had-feel-concession-speech-072120679.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger-college-basketball-blog/oscar-weber-latest-presser-had-feel-concession-speech-072120679.html)
"I think a couple of my biggest weaknesses as a person, as a coach, is that at times I speak with a lot of honesty, and I also care too much," Weber said Friday. "I think, too, I'm very hard on myself, a lot of times harder on myself than I should be, but that's just how I am.
"Obviously, I've been disappointed I haven't been able to get the toughness out of our guys. That's the difference in a lot of close games. There's no doubt about that. I probably could have expressed that in a little different language, whatever, a little different tone of voice. That's just how it happened."
Weber discussed his comments with his players.
"They said, 'We got to be tougher,' " Weber said. "I said, 'That's exactly right.' I also said, 'Who did I mainly blame?' They said, 'You always take the blame for everything, coach.' Some of them said, 'The problem is it's us who has to take the blame and take the accountability.' "
"The people who know me (know) I'm a fighter," Weber said. "By no means would I ever think that our season was over or I had given up on anybody. In fact, it's the other way.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7586669/illinois-coach-oscar-weber-says-resign (http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7586669/illinois-coach-oscar-weber-says-resign)
:love:
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Jesus, it's almost like he's the same coach he was at Illinois
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The "my biggest weakness is I care too much" line is amazing
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Jesus, it's almost like he's the same coach he was at Illinois
Shocking.
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dunno but I don't think that oscar is smart enough to be trying to use these comments in the media as a motivational tool
my guess is that he lacks the tact and intelligence to filter his comments when the media sets him up with questions that could result in answers like what are highlighted in this thread
not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
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not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
I've never really understood how he became a high-level coach based on his personality. It almost seems like he doesn't really want to and is just happy to be here with no idea how it happened.
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The "my biggest weakness is I care too much" line is amazing
My favorite is where he recounts the convo he allegedly had with his players. Seems legit.
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not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
I totally agree. I remember formulating this opinion when he took over at Illinois, and reading about his fake funeral for Bill Self and the ridiculous comments he made during that time about Self. So, the day he was announced as our head coach I was very angry. I want him to just go away.
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
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I just hope that next time Currie does a little more research about whether or not coaching candidates have a history of calling out players in post game interviews.
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Jesus, it's almost like he's the same coach he was at Illinois
Shocking.
yeah. I was expecting the fifty year old to totally change who he was but he apparently couldn't. surprise, surprise.
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Having a problem with oscar calling an inconstant player inconstant, is insane. Everybody knows Nino has been inconstant. Also oscar appears to change on how he handling somethings. Said he wished he sat Meyers now has sat Foster. Some of his criticism is bat crap crazy.
Fair criticism would be how Westicles and Foster have come out so dull this season. Why do they appear not to be bought into the program anymore? Is this oscar's doing? Will this become a trend?
I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
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not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
I've never really understood how he became a high-level coach based on his personality. It almost seems like he doesn't really want to and is just happy to be here with no idea how it happened.
the "how" is pretty straight forward, he spent 18 years on the bench of a well respected b10 coach in a tightly knit business. but it's not just the coaching profession, if anyone sticks around long enough, eventually they will get a shot, Illinois was guilty of giving him that chance, and guilty of not realizing their mistake sooner than they should have.
currie was just incompetent, there's really no excuse for his error in judgement when making the hire that he did. and that is what's scary.
I've always said we shouldn't be angry with oscar- any of us would take the money, the real problem with all of this is that we have an AD who somehow thought that hiring oscar was doing the right thing.
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Having a problem with oscar calling an inconstant player inconstant, is insane. Everybody knows Nino has been inconstant. Also oscar appears to change on how he handling somethings. Said he wished he sat Meyers now has sat Foster. Some of his criticism is bat crap crazy.
Fair criticism would be how Westicles and Foster have come out so dull this season. Why do they appear not to be bought into the program anymore? Is this oscar's doing? Will this become a trend?
I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
nino doing well or doing shitty isn't the problem with this team. he's a 6 ft 4 inch power forward. oscar seems to think otherwise, which tells me he doesn't know crap about the team he's getting paid to coach
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I just hope that next time Currie does a little more research about whether or not coaching candidates have a history of calling out players in post game interviews.
And hosting fake funerals. Watch out for that too.
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I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
Oh defense is still a huge problem, but not having great (or even good) offense is a big problem. We had a great offensive game against aTm (and a terrible Savannah State team), but other than that our offense has been below 1.00 points per possession for the last month. TOs still are the biggest issue, but we aren't shooting it well either. If we continue to allow teams to shoot 51% or better then yeah, this is a serious recipe for disaster.
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nino doing well or doing shitty isn't the problem with this team. he's a 6 ft 4 inch power forward. oscar seems to think otherwise, which tells me he doesn't know crap about the team he's getting paid to coach
6-4 is Nino's M.O.
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I hate that oscar has taken saying mean things about Nino and made it not fun anymore.
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I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
Oh defense is still a huge problem, but not having great (or even good) offense is a big problem. We had a great offensive game against aTm (and a terrible Savannah State team), but other than that our offense has been below 1.00 points per possession for the last month. TOs still are the biggest issue, but we aren't shooting it well either. If we continue to allow teams to shoot 51% or better then yeah, this is a serious recipe for disaster.
Last 2 games we have given up way to many points off turning the ball over. Half Court defense appears to be there in impemntation imo. It isn't what is was in November. We appear to be month or more behind where we should be. It is weird.
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I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
Oh defense is still a huge problem, but not having great (or even good) offense is a big problem. We had a great offensive game against aTm (and a terrible Savannah State team), but other than that our offense has been below 1.00 points per possession for the last month. TOs still are the biggest issue, but we aren't shooting it well either. If we continue to allow teams to shoot 51% or better then yeah, this is a serious recipe for disaster.
Last 2 games we have given up way to many points off turning the ball over. Half Court defense appears to be there in impemntation imo. It isn't what is was in November. We appear to be month or more behind where we should be. It is weird.
With the current turmoil within the team and oscar still figuring out who is going to play, it's not that weird.
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I hate that oscar has taken saying mean things about Nino and made it not fun anymore.
Try saying mean things about nino in your best oscar voice. You might be surprised.
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
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I think getting Underwood after he been on his own for a little and in Texas is a plus. Better than him taking over right way. Also having less expectations because of oscar will give him more leeway to grow into P5 job.
Still think oscar might now be in that bad of a situation and string us along for a while with some good seasons and every once in a while have head banding situation. I think that is who he is. Just watch him get everything realigned and make a run to New York.
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
getting rid of oscar is roughly equivalent to only one year's salary. Also, if Brad isn't DTF Henson could be had cheap and might be good for now. I mean, there's no way he could be worse than oscar
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
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“Nino’s got to play well,” Weber said. “He had his best run as a player, now he just lays an egg the last three games. This has been the M.O. for his career. He’ll have a few good games here and there. Never consistent.”
never consistent is the MO for your career oscar. get effed.
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
You keep saying that, but I don't think it is true. I'm pretty sure Dax posted the contract and it said at most $2.5 million is owed and we can subtract any coaching earnings he makes from someone else. Currie negotiated a really good buyout as I understand it. Which I may not understand it at all.
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
Yeah, and seasons like this are what you get with oscar. Tough to justify firing him for a season that was pretty likely to happen at some point.
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
Yeah, and seasons like this are what you get with oscar. Tough to justify firing him for a season that was pretty likely to happen at some point.
Yeah, this is pretty much a oscar gonna oscar deal. And it's not unreasonable to think that he'll be 21-9, 12-6 next year.
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
Yeah, and seasons like this are what you get with oscar. Tough to justify firing him for a season that was pretty likely to happen at some point.
Yeah, this is pretty much a oscar gonna oscar deal. And it's not unreasonable to think that he'll be 21-9, 12-6 next year.
Yep
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No way with next year's bigs, hell if Marcus leaves he will lose the top 3 scorers
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No way with next year's bigs, hell if Marcus leaves he will lose the top 3 scorers
Marcus yes, we would suck. Bigs are not super important to oscar offensively. DJamer and Malek will be great trash men and Wade should surprise people. His ability to shoot will help us. He has defended elite big prospects at a high level.
Keeping Nigel, Marcus and Wes are very important for next year not to be an internal explosion. Barry should gives us more punch that we need. But oscar has a history of not getting freshman ready to play year one.
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No way with next year's bigs, hell if Marcus leaves he will lose the top 3 scorers
His career shows he's very likely to have a good season and make the tournament next year. It's what he does. But he also has years like this one.
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
Yeah, and seasons like this are what you get with oscar. Tough to justify firing him for a season that was pretty likely to happen at some point.
Yeah, this is pretty much a oscar gonna oscar deal. And it's not unreasonable to think that he'll be 21-9, 12-6 next year.
Do we get another tipping fulcrum post if this happens?
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it's a tough situ that currie has put himself in.
he can't be seen as pulling the trigger on oscar too soon, especially after running frank out of town. sadly, oscar is ours for a while.
Yeah, and seasons like this are what you get with oscar. Tough to justify firing him for a season that was pretty likely to happen at some point.
Yeah, this is pretty much a oscar gonna oscar deal. And it's not unreasonable to think that he'll be 21-9, 12-6 next year.
Do we get another tipping fulcrum post if this happens?
Well, that depends on things.
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This whole discussion and my previous really long post are the problems with oscar.
I don't believe that oscar is a terrible coach, but he's a terribly inconsistent coach. Seasons like this one (which are terrible) are probably going to happen, but he generally follows up poor seasons with good ones. He is a weird personality with a squeaky voice who rarely seems to take responsibility when things aren't going well, and even then he often throws in qualifiers like "I guess" or "maybe". I really don't mind calling out players some, but his passive aggressive technique doesn't help him.
Overall when comparing with Frank, I think Frank is building (and had built here) a better, more consistent program. Plus, Frank is just more fun to have as your coach because of his personality and that fact that his personality attracts (mostly positive) attention. I have no problem with wanting oscar gone and going after another coach, but I think everyone (myself included) will really be wanting another Frank whether they say so or not. The odds of that happening are really not very good. That in and of itself is not a good reason to not get rid of oscar and his strange inconsistent style, but its the reality of the situation we're in and that is not fun as a fan.
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Bruces brand is boring it is very simple. I was looking at his roster for threw the years, he seems not to be a good roster builder or his Illinois staff sucked at it. Frank excels at that. If he can keep this team together for the next two years I would be impressed. I also think the results would be impressive.
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Given that Frank will start having consistently good seasons at SC, and that oscar will have good seasons with a few bad ones mixed in, are we certain that Frank won't leave SC for another rebuilding project? All of the other conjecture is, rightly or wrongly, based pretty much entirely on some history. And Frank does have some history of doing this.
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Frank is going to be a nomad. He is really good at fracturing relationships. He just will have to move one at times for his own stake. I would like to see him at an upper tier job, I think he would be good at it. He is proficient at getting players ready to play right away. Decently poor at development.
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Given that Frank will start having consistently good seasons at SC, and that oscar will have good seasons with a few bad ones mixed in, are we certain that Frank won't leave SC for another rebuilding project? All of the other conjecture is, rightly or wrongly, based pretty much entirely on some history. And Frank does have some history of doing this.
:D
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The "my biggest weakness is I care too much" line is amazing
My favorite is where he recounts the convo he allegedly had with his players. Seems legit.
I don't even know what to say. It's really hard for me to believe that he actually said that, but there it is, plain as day, right on the internet, for the whole world to see. oscar must have been a hoot as a kid, "Well mom, I sat down and talked with my teacher, and she said that she needs to do better. She told me that I was too hard on myself, and that I'm always taking the blame for my bad grades, but she said that she knows that she's the one really at fault. These bad grades have to stop, and I realize that, but the teacher's right, she needs to be shouldering the responsibility here."
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not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
I've never really understood how he became a high-level coach based on his personality. It almost seems like he doesn't really want to and is just happy to be here with no idea how it happened.
I've gotten this impression as well. I always kind of assumed (hoped) it was his "media face" and he was more of a coach in practice, but that's seems unlikely.
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I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
Oh defense is still a huge problem, but not having great (or even good) offense is a big problem. We had a great offensive game against aTm (and a terrible Savannah State team), but other than that our offense has been below 1.00 points per possession for the last month. TOs still are the biggest issue, but we aren't shooting it well either. If we continue to allow teams to shoot 51% or better then yeah, this is a serious recipe for disaster.
And idea how much of our problems on defense are related to turnovers on offense leading to easy transition baskets? It seems like lately when we're in the half court, we're playing solid defense. Also, our transition defense seems to suck.
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And idea how much of our problems on defense are related to turnovers on offense leading to easy transition baskets? It seems like lately when we're in the half court, we're playing solid defense. Also, our transition defense seems to suck.
Its sort of a tough stat to track. You have bottom of the boxscore stats like points off turnovers and fast break points. Right now on average the Cats are outscored 16.4-14.9 on points off turnovers and 6.9 to 7.8 on fast break points.
Then you have hoop-math.com which tracks shot types, when shots occur, etc. Here is our defensive chart so far this year.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg911%2F9023%2FL2UK8z.png&hash=f2096d9690cecaf80796a3022275ac5f5e19717c)
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
You keep saying that, but I don't think it is true. I'm pretty sure Dax posted the contract and it said at most $2.5 million is owed and we can subtract any coaching earnings he makes from someone else. Currie negotiated a really good buyout as I understand it. Which I may not understand it at all.
I didn't see that. I'll have to go find the .pdf.
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The "my biggest weakness is I care too much" line is amazing
My favorite is where he recounts the convo he allegedly had with his players. Seems legit.
It's the old white man version of the Jameis Winston skrong speech.
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I also don't think defense is no longer the problem, has turned around in the process of the last 2.5 games. Scoring is becoming a huge issue and is compounded with youthful point guard play.
We have played poor to average offenses the last three games. I mean it was Texas Southern, Georgia, and OSU. Only Tech and OU have less efficient offenses of or remaining opponents.
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Man I can see Undies implementing that pinwheel offense with a group of DITR's that would make Snyder jelly jelly right now.
Bring on those Kansas drive way ballers, and under recruited Texas kids!! EMAW Everybody!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"I think a couple of my biggest weaknesses as a person, as a coach, is that at times I speak with a lot of honesty, and I also care too much,"
currie melted when he dropped this classic maneuver in the job interview
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We are a Gip injury away from a nightmare situation.
You don't think we are already in a nightmare situation?
Gonna win 'em all!
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
You keep saying that, but I don't think it is true. I'm pretty sure Dax posted the contract and it said at most $2.5 million is owed and we can subtract any coaching earnings he makes from someone else. Currie negotiated a really good buyout as I understand it. Which I may not understand it at all.
I didn't see that. I'll have to go find the .pdf.
KK and dax were absolutely right. I found the original .pdf. We'd only owe oscar $2.5 million to be paid in 30 day increments over a 24 month period. So, theoretically, we'd be on the hook for $1.25m a year for two years.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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And idea how much of our problems on defense are related to turnovers on offense leading to easy transition baskets? It seems like lately when we're in the half court, we're playing solid defense. Also, our transition defense seems to suck.
Its sort of a tough stat to track. You have bottom of the boxscore stats like points off turnovers and fast break points. Right now on average the Cats are outscored 16.4-14.9 on points off turnovers and 6.9 to 7.8 on fast break points.
Then you have hoop-math.com which tracks shot types, when shots occur, etc. Here is our defensive chart so far this year.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg911%2F9023%2FL2UK8z.png&hash=f2096d9690cecaf80796a3022275ac5f5e19717c)
Looks like the Cats give up way too many open threes in the half court. Terrible recipe for success in the modern game.
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I'm sure John Currie will do better next time!
I think Currie's choice will be made for him.
Underwood is going to have massive donor support, and he's not going to command a big salary. Which we will require because we're going to be carrying around oscar's contract around like an albatross for the next few years.
You keep saying that, but I don't think it is true. I'm pretty sure Dax posted the contract and it said at most $2.5 million is owed and we can subtract any coaching earnings he makes from someone else. Currie negotiated a really good buyout as I understand it. Which I may not understand it at all.
I didn't see that. I'll have to go find the .pdf.
KK and dax were absolutely right. I found the original .pdf. We'd only owe oscar $2.5 million to be paid in 30 day increments over a 24 month period. So, theoretically, we'd be on the hook for $1.25m a year for two years.
Thanks for pointing that out.
It's a very good buyout. I don't want to use too much conjecture, but perhaps Currie knew that oscar was a gamble and safeguarded against what we're seeing right now.
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Currie had enormous leverage, I am glad he used it to negotiate the buyout, which is very favorable to us.
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Story had Asprella (?) was nearly thrown from the gym.
Frank threw him out of the gym and threw a ball rack at him. :Wha:
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Story had Asprella (?) was nearly thrown from the gym.
Frank threw him out of the gym and threw a ball rack at him. :Wha:
"Man ... I miss Frank"
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"Man ... I miss Frank"
Yeah, the image of Frank throwing a ball rack at somebody is both terrifying and amazing. I made this to commemorate the departure of Asprilla.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8hQsAIN.jpg%3F1&hash=b70c9a08dfacc8b5d81530e8ebba074237eb4b37)
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sweet jorts, frank. Never mind, I don't miss him.
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jordan 3's though
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sweet jorts, frank. Never mind, I don't miss him.
does anything really matter when you're winning?
I can answer that question with a photographic example.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmlblogsroyals.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F08%2Fmartin20pitch1.jpg&hash=32a0ccd5b99fa11cd5eef9b32960b577c16414e1)
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not trying to give him an excuse- I just really think he's a bumbling rough ridin' idiot
I totally agree. I remember formulating this opinion when he took over at Illinois, and reading about his fake funeral for Bill Self and the ridiculous comments he made during that time about Self. So, the day he was announced as our head coach I was very angry. I want him to just go away.
Yeah. It would've been one thing if Currie had gotten someone in the mold of Ben Howland. But the signs were on the wall with oscar from long before ADJC's Exclusive Dallas Adventure Time.
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Cargo Jorts?????!!!!??!?!?! :horrorsurprise:
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Cargo Jorts?????!!!!??!?!?! :horrorsurprise:
It is what it is.
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Hey guys, mocat had the last word on Frank's fashion
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Cargo Jorts?????!!!!??!?!?! :horrorsurprise:
those shorts are so bad they are great, like how multiplying 2 negatives equals a positive
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Frank can wear whatever he wants and I would be fine with it because he wins games.
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Hey guys, mocat had the last word on Frank's fashion
jeesh, it just reminded me of it, and also you'd be fine with "jort'ns" again if we were winning again