goemaw.com

TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: steve dave on November 19, 2014, 10:11:36 AM

Title: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: steve dave on November 19, 2014, 10:11:36 AM
He's a hero. Nobody can ever take that away from him. And the only person who can tarnish that is himself. His name is going to stay on that stadium and that highway. We'll all talk to our kids and grandkids about what a damn miracle worker he was. But what if there are grumblings that he is kinda losing it. Like say he's doing things you'd expect a 75 year old to do. He's not 100% sure of what's going on at all times. He's forgetting things that he has never forgotten before. Nobody wants to see him go out in some humiliating fashion. Obviously we all hope it never comes to this but what is the point where you have to Bobby Bowden him?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Winters on November 19, 2014, 10:13:56 AM
When there is no vice grip on the state imo
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: fun muffin on November 19, 2014, 10:14:13 AM
same thing as last time.  Back to back seasons without a bowl.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Benja on November 19, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
I wonder if I'll be able to run a major football program when I'm 75? eff, I doubt it. :frown:
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Shooter Jones on November 19, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
there are a lot of things, but if it ever gets to this. gtfobs.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2F_photos%2F2006-11-18-paterno.jpg&hash=07ce8bd833198c7b5b040340c8d09d9c3babe1bf)
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: RickRampus on November 19, 2014, 10:18:37 AM
there are a lot of things, but if it ever gets to this. gtfobs.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2F_photos%2F2006-11-18-paterno.jpg&hash=07ce8bd833198c7b5b040340c8d09d9c3babe1bf)

what if Sean is HC on the field?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 19, 2014, 11:17:59 AM
If he starts messing up his words, saying stuff like "Large and by, our reasonably youngsters well played" and trails off. Then we'll know its time.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: SdK on November 19, 2014, 11:36:57 AM
After another big 12 ship...he won't be forced out.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: michigancat on November 19, 2014, 11:44:28 AM
It would seriously take a paterno scandal, and I agree with that stance
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: KanSt43 on November 19, 2014, 11:53:05 AM
Losing several football games.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Functianalyst on November 19, 2014, 11:56:24 AM
same thing as last time.  Back to back seasons without a bowl.
Exactly, or at least if the question is going to be asked who are you pretending that is going to do a better job.  Asking OSU the same question who wants Gundy gone.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: scottwildcat on November 19, 2014, 12:02:03 PM
This thread coupled with the replacement thread has me on red alert....
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Headinjun on November 19, 2014, 12:17:30 PM
Would you guys chill out.

We're gonna win tom. Night and next weekend and make this a respectable season.

We'll be fine!
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: steve dave on November 19, 2014, 12:18:32 PM
It's just a hypothetical. Nobody is not chilled out.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: michigancat on November 19, 2014, 12:18:38 PM
He can have as many losing season as it takes for him to leave on his own. The program's strong, private money is ready.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: CHONGS on November 19, 2014, 12:24:55 PM
It's just a hypothetical. Nobody is not chilled out.
Sorry, but I am panicking and strongly urge others to do so as well.

Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Shooter Jones on November 19, 2014, 12:25:20 PM
We're gonna wing tom. Night and next weekend and makes this a respectable season.

this happens, and we'll be playing for a dr. pepper the last game of the year, and that's considered a respectable season to us now. god damn we're elite.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: 1863 on November 19, 2014, 12:51:38 PM
Sheesh we are ranked #12 in the country with our only losses to #5 and #14 and if we win out we get at least a share of the Big 12.

If he is really "forgetting things" he should keep on forgetting them because its working. So far his health hasn't seemed to decline; as long as he is healthy let him coach as long as he wants.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: CNS on November 19, 2014, 12:54:50 PM
Touchdown in wrong endzone followed by a happy look on his face.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: scottwildcat on November 19, 2014, 12:55:33 PM

as long as he is healthy let him coach as long as he wants.

No, if he ever has back to back season with a sub .500 record he needs to be fired without hesitation.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Benja on November 19, 2014, 01:03:29 PM
It's just a hypothetical. Nobody is not chilled out.

Yeah. Like you wouldn't believe how chilled I am.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Benja on November 19, 2014, 01:04:23 PM
Just chillin' and talkin' 'bout old coaches.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 19, 2014, 01:08:57 PM
I heard a story once that he had big time recruit in for a visit. They had a thirty minute conversation and the youngster was completely on board. A month or so later he was back in town and Bill was busy doing his thing. The coach/recruiter brought the kid back by the office to talk to Bill and Bill talked to him for a bit and said we needed to bring him down for a visit. The recruit was thrown off because Bill had completely forgotten having met him and talking to him for thirty minutes.

Let's say this story is accurate. (my source swore it was true) Is that sign enough it is time to hang it up? 
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: HerrSonntag on November 19, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
I heard a story once that he had big time recruit in for a visit. They had a thirty minute conversation and the youngster was completely on board. A month or so later he was back in town and Bill was busy doing his thing. The coach/recruiter brought the kid back by the office to talk to Bill and Bill talked to him for a bit and said we needed to bring him down for a visit. The recruit was thrown off because Bill had completely forgotten having met him and talking to him for thirty minutes.

Let's say this story is accurate. (my source swore it was true) Is that sign enough it is time to hang it up?
I've heard sources with HBSIQ mention he has an uncanny knack for remembering names that seems to contradict this story.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: RickRampus on November 19, 2014, 01:19:05 PM
I heard a story once that he had big time recruit in for a visit. They had a thirty minute conversation and the youngster was completely on board. A month or so later he was back in town and Bill was busy doing his thing. The coach/recruiter brought the kid back by the office to talk to Bill and Bill talked to him for a bit and said we needed to bring him down for a visit. The recruit was thrown off because Bill had completely forgotten having met him and talking to him for thirty minutes.

Let's say this story is accurate. (my source swore it was true) Is that sign enough it is time to hang it up?

your post count says your post means nothing.  Give us something other than this that is provable or hypothetical and we'll talk. 
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Tobias on November 19, 2014, 01:26:28 PM
your post count says your post means nothing

i mean, that and the fact it's yard dog
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 19, 2014, 01:30:08 PM
I heard a story once that he had big time recruit in for a visit. They had a thirty minute conversation and the youngster was completely on board. A month or so later he was back in town and Bill was busy doing his thing. The coach/recruiter brought the kid back by the office to talk to Bill and Bill talked to him for a bit and said we needed to bring him down for a visit. The recruit was thrown off because Bill had completely forgotten having met him and talking to him for thirty minutes.

Let's say this story is accurate. (my source swore it was true) Is that sign enough it is time to hang it up?

your post count says your post means nothing.  Give us something other than this that is provable or hypothetical and we'll talk.

I was working as a waiter at a Manhattan restaurant at the time and was told the story by a wealthy regular. I didn't want to contradict him, but I found it hard to believe that something like that would happen.

My best guess is Bill was actively trolling the recruit because he didn't want him anyways.

Good one Bill. You sly devil you. 
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: EMAWmeister on November 19, 2014, 01:31:35 PM
If I know one thing in this world it's that "wealthy regulars" don't know crap about anything, but they loving telling you how wealthy and regular they are.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 19, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
Hey remember some random conversation from a month ago that is probably identical to 100 other conversations you have all the time? Yeah me either sheesh.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Harry Doyle on November 19, 2014, 02:47:09 PM
I heard a story once that he had big time recruit in for a visit. They had a thirty minute conversation and the youngster was completely on board. A month or so later he was back in town and Bill was busy doing his thing. The coach/recruiter brought the kid back by the office to talk to Bill and Bill talked to him for a bit and said we needed to bring him down for a visit. The recruit was thrown off because Bill had completely forgotten having met him and talking to him for thirty minutes.

Let's say this story is accurate. (my source swore it was true) Is that sign enough it is time to hang it up?
I've heard sources with HBSIQ mention he has an uncanny knack for remembering names that seems to contradict this story.

True story: Several years back when LHC LHC Bill Snyder was doing his book tour, I was working at a store he came to. Bill rolled up in his Cadi about 10 minutes before the thing began and I took him into the employee break room so he could get a cup of coffee and a cookie (I knew he was a cookie aficionado so I bought the best from a small bakery in town.) The store manager and I talked to him for a few minutes, he asked our names and made small talk. He signed my book and then went out and did an hour signing for everyone. 2 years later (I think) when Bill was still retired, I had moved to Manhattan and ran into him at Dillons at the West Loop center one day. I didn't even realize it was him until we were both in the same isle getting the same thing. Bill recognized me and called me by first and last name and even remembered where he was when we first met. Just think about that. That was 6-7 years ago, but damn. He has a memory.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: kso_FAN on November 19, 2014, 02:49:15 PM
It would seriously take a paterno scandal, and I agree with that stance

This.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Stevesie60 on November 19, 2014, 06:33:20 PM
I heard a funny story about Bill when he was sitting next to an international student on an airplane flying into Manhattan. They had some small talk for most of the trip and at some point she saw his K-State pin and asked if he was a fan of K-State. He said yes, and that he worked for the university. "Yes my name is LHC Bill Snyder, and I work for Kansas State University". I mean, how hilarious is that?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: wetwillie on November 19, 2014, 06:40:27 PM
Has anyone ever died on the sidelines coaching?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: CNS on November 19, 2014, 06:41:47 PM
Well, it sounds like Bill still has "it". 

Lets review again in a couple years or after the next WTF game.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on November 19, 2014, 06:51:20 PM
Has anyone ever died on the sidelines coaching?

Jerry Kill has had some close calls.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 19, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Has anyone ever died on the sidelines coaching?

Didn't the old Houston Texans coach almost die at one of their games?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: sekpoke on November 19, 2014, 08:16:08 PM
same thing as last time.  Back to back seasons without a bowl.
Exactly, or at least if the question is going to be asked who are you pretending that is going to do a better job.  Asking OSU the same question who wants Gundy gone.
Another dumpster fire season and the heat will be on Gundy.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: chunkles on November 19, 2014, 08:25:26 PM
I fear that the current :cheese:'ing going on may be all it takes. 
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: nicname on November 19, 2014, 08:46:07 PM
I heard a funny story about Bill when he was sitting next to an international student on an airplane flying into Manhattan. They had some small talk for most of the trip and at some point she saw his K-State pin and asked if he was a fan of K-State. He said yes, and that he worked for the university. "Yes my name is LHC Bill Snyder, and I work for Kansas State University". I mean, how hilarious is that?

Man, I bet Bill had a great time with his little secret on that plane ride. I bet he  :lol: his ass off when he told his friends/ family later on.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Lucas Scoopsalot on November 19, 2014, 09:22:33 PM
I heard a funny story about Bill when he was sitting next to an international student on an airplane flying into Manhattan. They had some small talk for most of the trip and at some point she saw his K-State pin and asked if he was a fan of K-State. He said yes, and that he worked for the university. "Yes my name is LHC Bill Snyder, and I work for Kansas State University". I mean, how hilarious is that?

Man, I bet Bill had a great time with his little secret on that plane ride. I bet he  :lol: his ass off when he told his friends/ family later on.
Idk, I bet famous people like it when people don't recognize them.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Benja on November 19, 2014, 10:11:26 PM
I heard a story once that a guy was walking down a street. He kept walking down the street until he got to where he was going.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: KITNfury on November 19, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
I want him to be buried under the field and rename the stadium LHC Bill Snyder Mausoleum (if he can't live and coach forever).
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: CNS on November 19, 2014, 10:13:46 PM
Consult Ouji Board for play calling in game.  Also, need to.burry Neek with him Egyptian style.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: ELL3 on November 19, 2014, 10:23:42 PM
He delegates more than he used to, that's a fact
Sean is not gonna ever get the job, that makes him less likely to just step aside for Junior
His contract to coach is up after the 2017 season, that will be his last season
Currie will hire a guy that seems like a crap choice
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Panjandrum on November 19, 2014, 10:26:09 PM
I heard a funny story about Bill when he was sitting next to an international student on an airplane flying into Manhattan. They had some small talk for most of the trip and at some point she saw his K-State pin and asked if he was a fan of K-State. He said yes, and that he worked for the university. "Yes my name is LHC Bill Snyder, and I work for Kansas State University". I mean, how hilarious is that?

The best part is that he was probably completely self aware that the student had no idea who the football coach at KSU was, or the magnitude of that, and he was probably extremely friendly and cordial about it.

I bet he mentored the crap out of that kid, too.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Tobias on November 19, 2014, 10:45:38 PM
I heard a funny story about Bill when he was sitting next to an international student on an airplane flying into Manhattan. They had some small talk for most of the trip and at some point she saw his K-State pin and asked if he was a fan of K-State. He said yes, and that he worked for the university. "Yes my name is LHC Bill Snyder, and I work for Kansas State University". I mean, how hilarious is that?

sounds like he missed out on a really good canadian fanningbrag oppy
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: chunkles on November 19, 2014, 11:18:35 PM
He delegates more than he used to, that's a fact
Sean is not gonna ever get the job, that makes him less likely to just step aside for Junior
His contract to coach is up after the 2017 season, that will be his last season
Currie will hire a guy that seems like a crap choice

don't disagree, but this is probably the worst poem ever. 
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: MakeItRain on November 19, 2014, 11:41:30 PM
When there is no vice grip on the state imo

same thing as last time.  Back to back seasons without a bowl.

Both indicators that's it's too late, imo
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Trim on November 20, 2014, 12:00:03 AM
Sometime during his first retirement, he was signing stuff at the KSHOF in old town at that time.  I had him sign a picture but sometime just as or after he was signing it, he thought it was a gift and tried to keep it.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: bones129 on November 20, 2014, 12:15:01 AM
Sometime during his first retirement, he was signing stuff at the KSHOF in old town at that time.  I had him sign a picture but sometime just as or after he was signing it, he thought it was a gift and tried to keep it.

Really?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 20, 2014, 09:17:09 AM
Sometime during his first retirement, he was signing stuff at the KSHOF in old town at that time.  I had him sign a picture but sometime just as or after he was signing it, he thought it was a gift and tried to keep it.

Really?

I'd get down on him for being old there, but sometimes I forget if I washed my hair in the shower and wash it twice. So, that should end the he is old and gets confused argument right?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: KSUfaithful on November 20, 2014, 12:04:48 PM
Sometime during his first retirement, he was signing stuff at the KSHOF in old town at that time.  I had him sign a picture but sometime just as or after he was signing it, he thought it was a gift and tried to keep it.

Really?

I'd get down on him for being old there, but sometimes I forget if I washed my hair in the shower and wash it twice. So, that should end the he is old and gets confused argument right?

No b/c he is 75.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Trim on November 20, 2014, 12:07:33 PM
As we know, the answer is probably talking about an airplane banner.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: CrushNasty on November 20, 2014, 01:08:17 PM
Personally, another one of those 2005 @OU punts where our punter isn't back there.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: MakeItRain on November 20, 2014, 03:59:03 PM
Personally, another one of those 2005 @OU punts where our punter isn't back there.

Yeah, because Snyder handcuffed him to the bench and that prevented him from joining the rest of his unit on the field.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: ChiComCat on November 20, 2014, 04:16:05 PM
Personally, another one of those 2005 @OU punts where our punter isn't back there.

Yeah, because Snyder handcuffed him to the bench and that prevented him from joining the rest of his unit on the field.

But you call a timeout though, right?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 20, 2014, 04:43:39 PM
Anyone know what station to "tune in" to on the app to listen to stan weber's sweet angelic voice this evening?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: JohnCurrie is Weird/Gross on November 20, 2014, 07:56:46 PM
Is Lockett on the rough riding punt cover team?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: MakeItRain on November 20, 2014, 11:53:48 PM
Personally, another one of those 2005 @OU punts where our punter isn't back there.

Yeah, because Snyder handcuffed him to the bench and that prevented him from joining the rest of his unit on the field.

But you call a timeout though, right?

The punter was headed out, there was no need for a timeout. That is on the punter for not paying attention and the upmam for not knowing his punter was out there.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: Yard Dog on November 21, 2014, 07:48:59 AM
Is Lockett on the rough riding punt cover team?

I saw that! Assumed it was a mistake. Not sure we want him tackling anyone. It might have been because he is fast and they were hoping to pin WVU deep?
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: doom on November 21, 2014, 07:51:27 AM
He's a hero. Nobody can ever take that away from him. And the only person who can tarnish that is himself. His name is going to stay on that stadium and that highway. We'll all talk to our kids and grandkids about what a damn miracle worker he was. But what if there are grumblings that he is kinda losing it. Like say he's doing things you'd expect a 75 year old to do. He's not 100% sure of what's going on at all times. He's forgetting things that he has never forgotten before. Nobody wants to see him go out in some humiliating fashion. Obviously we all hope it never comes to this but what is the point where you have to Bobby Bowden him?

When we have  a Jimbo and Jameis lined up.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: chunkles on November 25, 2014, 07:58:35 PM
I fear that the current :cheese:'ing going on may be all it takes.
heavens to betsy, look at this chunkles post
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: scottwildcat on November 25, 2014, 08:06:23 PM
He delegates more than he used to, that's a fact
Sean is not gonna ever get the job, that makes him less likely to just step aside for Junior
His contract to coach is up after the 2017 season, that will be his last season
Currie will hire a guy that seems like a crap choice

Pretty sure he has a rolling 3 year contract.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: SuperG on November 25, 2014, 11:32:18 PM

If he starts messing up his words, saying stuff like "Large and by, our reasonably youngsters well played" and trails off. Then we'll know its time.

That's kind if what oscar sounds like now.
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: steve dave on November 26, 2014, 07:29:24 AM
He delegates more than he used to, that's a fact
Sean is not gonna ever get the job, that makes him less likely to just step aside for Junior
His contract to coach is up after the 2017 season, that will be his last season
Currie will hire a guy that seems like a crap choice

Pretty sure he has a rolling 3 year contract.

he does
Title: Re: What Would Have To Happen For Us To Force LHC Bill Snyder Out?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 26, 2014, 08:54:28 AM
I'm very optimistic that Currie isn't building/renovating this whole time, just to hire another Weber. I think he understands the importance of football and what it can bring to a school. But i'm also a huge optimist, so who know?!  :dunno: