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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: DQ12 on July 23, 2014, 11:00:52 PM
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I for one, think we probably involve Waters in the running game quite a bit, but far different from anything we've seen since at least 2010. I think it's extremely unlikely that we do the QB/RB option read out of the shotgun, or the QB designed runs between the tackles like we saw out of Klein, and then Sams/Waters last year.
RATHER, I think we see a return of the bubble option that CCQ made so famous. Hey, that was marginally effective, and CCQ was in charge. I don't think it's a stretch (lil running game humor ;) ) to say that Waters is probably a better runner that Coffman was. That could be a really solid set, especially if we line up Lockett in the slot.
Additionally, I think we do some more conventional option plays with Gronk lead blocking. Hate on Waters all you want, but when we ran the conventional option last year, he was pretty damn good at (1) deciding when to pitch and (2) accurately pitching it.
These are only a few great ideas on how to effectively run the ball without experienced running backs!
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Coffman had Daniel Thomas tho
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the whole team is good and the running game is too
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We did a lot of the same things with Chad May & JJ Smith back in the day... Also, I'm of the belief that we get the ball to Gronk on designed run plays more often this year out of one back sets.
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Coffman had Daniel Thomas tho
Seems like an arbitrary point when only discussing coffman as a model for the WR option thing.
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warmack will be a stud.
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We did a lot of the same things with Chad May & JJ Smith back in the day... Also, I'm of the belief that we get the ball to Gronk on designed run plays more often this year out of one back sets.
I think Gronk will definitely get more carries this season. He deserves them. :billdance:
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Jarvis or Charles is going to plow some bitches playing defense this year.
Just watch
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I think we'll see a decent amount of rushes between the tackles by Waters. The main purpose of those will be to set up the option pass to the TE/Gronk/slot receiver. That play was extremely effective last season.
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pop pass to the TE every play, running doesn't matter.
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Most people forget that the CCQ offense was very, very good. The defense being equally bad was what killed that team. We are talking Hrebec bad, iirc
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Hubert was a nice, solid RB for us. He seldom showed greatness. I don't see any reason this class of RB's can't be just effective. I love Warmack but I can't see him as much more than a spot guy. With Homerun capability, something Huber just didn't have.
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Coffman had Daniel Thomas tho
Seems like an arbitrary point when only discussing coffman as a model for the WR option thing.
It's really not though. The first option in that play is generally zone read to the running back coming back to the side away from the receiver. Need that defensive end to go with the running back so that Waters has the time to make the extended "pitch" to the slot receiver.
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I don't know what to think about the run game anymore.
Earlier this off season I asked if this was the worst group of running backs we have had under Snyder since 1991 or so. I am no expert, but I am concerned.
Catzacker is concerned about run blocking, which wigs me out about our run game even more. However, I have zero ability to evaluate line play or players beyond looking at results (yards per rush, sacks allowed, etc)
In contrast, Bookie likes our run game possibilities and said this:
Leverette/Jones will turn out to be as serviceable as Hickman/Lawrence were back in the 90's.
I just don't see it. I mean, I'd love the crap out of that, but I am not that optimistic.
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warmack will be a stud.
I only recall Bill ever playing one RB any meaningful amount of time as a freshman, and that was Sproles....AND Bill told the entire world that he regretted not red shirting him (Sproles got hurt and was lost for the rest of the season).
Bill has a smart phone now, so maybe he changes his mind on this stuff. I can't see Bill playing Warmack this year unless our running backs are worse than I fear (which is really bad)....like a desperation move type thing.
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gronks blocking better have gotten, like, a million times better than it was last year
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warmack will be a stud.
I only recall Bill ever playing one RB any meaningful amount of time as a freshman, and that was Sproles....AND Bill told the entire world that he regretted not red shirting him (Sproles got hurt and was lost for the rest of the season).
Bill has a smart phone now, so maybe he changes his mind on this stuff. I can't see Bill playing Warmack this year unless our running backs are worse than I fear (which is really bad)....like a desperation move type thing.
i agree with most of this except one thing, the shoestring option. it's a new play i developed personally and it's meant to only be run by freshman running backs. i think it could really be a feather in our cap this year and change things about how snyder thinks about freshman backs in the offense. it could use some fine tweaking though. the shoestring option, look for it in our sets.
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Jarvis or Charles is going to plow some bitches playing defense this year.
Just watch
I am not sure why, but this post got me :emawkid: for football season. Probably the use of 'plow some bitches'
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Jarvis or Charles is going to plow some bitches playing defense this year.
Just watch
I am not sure why, but this post got me :emawkid: for football season. Probably the use of 'plow some bitches'
I can see how that phrase would appeal to someone with a dumb and dumber themed profile
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Jarvis or Charles is going to plow some bitches playing defense this year.
Just watch
I am not sure why, but this post got me :emawkid: for football season. Probably the use of 'plow some bitches'
I can see how that phrase would appeal to someone with a dumb and dumber themed profile
buurrrnnn :Crybaby:
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If we don't QB run out of the shotgun at least a little then we won't be able to do that one play where the QB fake runs and then hits the TE over the middle. I like that play, but I also hate designed runs for Waters out of the shotgun. What a pickle.
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Most people forget that the CCQ offense was very, very good. The defense being equally bad was what killed that team. We are talking Hrebec bad, iirc
The CCQ offense was really the Daniel Thomas offense, though.
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DT was pretty amazing.
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While I've voiced my concerns on the lack of experience in the backfield. I don't think we will have trouble running the ball IN MOST games because of the experience on the interior of the OL.
However against high level defenses, I am concerned. The ISU game will tell us a lot in terms of how far along we are running the ball early on.
As for ways to have Jake run the ball, think Mike Shannahan Denver Broncos bootleg stuff. Jake is more than able to get out on the edge on a run/pass option play like a bootleg and pick up a first down. It's a good way to utilize 1. his a bit above average running ability. 2. his strength (his arm) outside the pocket.
That being said, when running a boot you have to have some semblance of a run game for the bootleg game to work. I'm confident that our offensive staff will be able to adapt to the personnel available.
Granted, I would have said the same at the beginning of last year and that clearly was not the case.
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The more I think about it the more I dismiss my initial feeling of our rb's sucking
This could prove to be a great group with a all big 12-2 back surprising us
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gronks blocking better have gotten, like, a million times better than it was last year
gronkowski is an old russian word for improvement so don't worry
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The more I think about it the more I dismiss my initial feeling of our rb's sucking
This could prove to be a great group with a all big 12-2 back surprising us
I'm of the belief that the Leverette kid is pretty solid.. I base this off a number of things: Personal anecdotes from folks inside the program, his HS highlight vids and the fact that he put up 14-69 (4.9 avg) in the spring game running behind the #2 OL vs #1 defense.
I didn't snatch him up with an early pick in the "Who's your guy" thread for no reason: http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=32266.msg1126630#msg1126630
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If we had to be studless at one important position I'd probably pick rb, I guess. Would be nice to have studs but maybe there is a limit on studs and stuff and we've reached it and if we had more studs we'd forget values and goals and junk
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Man, I just sure just threw down some high IQ football talk right there
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Now that I started it please only post high IQ stuff from here on thanks
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Guys, which formation do you think suits our running game the best? The shotgun, maybe?
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moot points because we are going to run the 2 step forward fake QB drive TE slip play 15 times a game TO THE HOUSE
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if we had to suck ass at only one position it would be associate head coach
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moot points because we are going to run the 2 step forward fake QB drive TE slip play 15 times a game TO THE HOUSE
oh man you just got me excited with your extremely high best play we run iq
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if we had to suck ass at only one position it would be associate head coach
On field positions only, sorry.
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Most people forget that the CCQ offense was very, very good. The defense being equally bad was what killed that team. We are talking Hrebec bad, iirc
It wasn't "very, very good". It was good but that's it.
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
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the saving grace is: when was the last time snyder had a shitty RB?
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the saving grace is: when was the last time snyder had a shitty RB?
I don't know what this means, but please, super high IQ stuff
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
shoestring option dumbass
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I think the main drop off going from Hubert to inexperienced backs will be fumbles and potentially pass protection. I don't think Hubert did a whole lot running the ball that we can't get from the committee.
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Most of you dummies thought Hubert sucked for the longest time. Not worried. :yawn:
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the saving grace is: when was the last time snyder had a shitty RB?
I don't know what this means, but please, super high IQ stuff
super tuck, but damn proud of it. Snyder KNOWS the RB position. He knows what type of players will succeed at the RB position. That's why, in Snyder's tenure, we never had a season where we had a shitty RB. Lots of years, we went into the season all :ohno: about the RB position, but after the season, we're all like :emawkid: bc our running back situation was pretty solid
2013: Hubert - solid
2012: Hubert - solid
2011: Hubert - solid - worry level before season, Low-Med bc we though Bryce was gonna be the Truth
2010: Thomas - stud, William Powell - made the NFL
2009: Thomas - stud - worry level before season, HIGH
2005: Clayton - Solid - 5 years in NFL. Would have had better numbers if QB didn't suck.
2004: Sproles - amazing human being
2003: Sproles - amazing human being
2002: Sproles - amazing human being
2001: Scobey - solid, Cartwright - solid and under-utilized. Long and consistent NFL career
2000: Scobey - solid, Cartwright - solid and under-utilized. Long and consistent NFL career
1999: 3 headed monster of Joe Hall, Frank Murphy, and David Allen: studly. This was a fun backfield to watch. More than 5 yards a carry
1998: Hickson, Marlon Charles, Frank Murphy, David Allen, Goolsby. An embarrassment of riches. They would have had better numbers, but Bishop :)
1997: Hickson and Lawrence: Solid
1996: Lawrence: Solid
1995: Hickson and Lawrence: Solid
1994: JJ Smith: Stud, underrated
1993: JJ Smith: Stud, underrated
1992: Gallon and JJ Smith: Solid, poor OL and they still got it done.
1991: Gallon: solid
1990: too young to remember
So what does all this mean? In Snyder's time, never once would we look back at the season and think, DAMN Snyder, your RB sucked!
What does it mean for this year? Snyder :billdance: because he knows our RB will probably be decent and he lols at our fear. Super tuckish, but history though. History is the #truth
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Ok you convinced me. You wrote a lot, good job.
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Ok you convinced me. You wrote a lot, good job.
Biggest worry is injuries. Demarcus Robinson is always hurt. Leveratt is always hurt. I think Charles Jones is not very good. Gronk doesn't really have any wiggle. Fast though for a FB. Warmack is so young. Many have posted about Warmack and the Sproles redshirt comparison, and if Warmack plays, it prolly means our RBs suck. I echo those comments about Warmack.
If we have to depend on Jones, I'm very :ohno:
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What if Jake Waters, through the course of this off-season, has molded his game into the type if running back LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder desires?
I guess what I am saying is, "What if Jake Waters is a total stud?"
Gonna win 'em all!
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What if Jake Waters, through the course of this off-season, has molded his game into the type if running back LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder desires?
I guess what I am saying is, "What if Jake Waters is a total stud?"
Gonna win 'em all!
Gosh, I was thinking the same thing. What if Jake learns to throw it to himself this off-season. He could throw it hign in the air, and of course everyone would not tackle him due to he threw the ball and as slow as he is, he could just mosely on by the line and grab the ball and walk with it to the end zone. No one would be the wiser, including you Slobber. :ROFL:
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If Jake plays this season like he did the last third of last season, he and Snyder's play calling will make our run game look above average and good enough to keep defenses honest and balanced. It has been shown many times that Snyder will play the RB who listens to whatever he says, blocks, and takes care of the ball. Additionally, I hope Jake's knowledge of the game and playbook has improved enough for him to feel comfortable calling audibles in favor of the run if the defense is showing holes or blocking mismatches. Balance has always been a big part of The Scheme Doctor's game plan, and I don't see that changing a ton if he can help it. :th_twocents:
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if we had to suck ass at only one position it would be associate head coach
On field positions only, sorry.
Punter? :dunno:
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Jarvis Jones '2014
"JJ the jet-train"
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Jarvis Jones '2014
"JJ the jet-train"
D'Blocker will show you all how it's done. :gocho:
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
Whitehair is moving to tackle according to my sources.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
Whitehair is moving to tackle according to my sources.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
eff your sources, right in their stupid, fat faces.
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
Whitehair is moving to tackle according to my sources.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
eff your sources, right in their stupid, fat faces.
My source plays football for the KSU cats so like piss off someone who would say that to one of our better players. Loser.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
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What if Jake Waters, through the course of this off-season, has molded his game into the type if running back LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder desires?
I guess what I am saying is, "What if Jake Waters is a total stud?"
Gonna win 'em all!
Gosh, I was thinking the same thing. What if Jake learns to throw it to himself this off-season. He could throw it hign in the air, and of course everyone would not tackle him due to he threw the ball and as slow as he is, he could just mosely on by the line and grab the ball and walk with it to the end zone. No one would be the wiser, including you Slobber. :ROFL:
I was with you right up until the :ROFL:
Gonna win 'em all!
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
Whitehair is moving to tackle according to my sources.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
eff your sources, right in their stupid, fat faces.
My source plays football for the KSU cats so like piss off someone who would say that to one of our better players. Loser.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
Should I confirm Cody's dad?
Gonna win 'em all!
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He is indeed moving to Tackle. Confirmed sources as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This is not good news for Dana's running game
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Our run game will be fine. There aren't any great backs on this team, but unless Whitehair has to move to tackle, the interior of our line has the chance to be the best it's been since '03. Bill will spread 'em out four wide and laugh maniacally as (insert running back) gains ten yards every play up the middle.
Whitehair is moving to tackle according to my sources.
Sent using Tapatalk Elite on iPhone 6
Thought this was a given. Who else plays there? He'll be a very good tackle.
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I don't think our running backs suck and, with good competition, one will emerge. I also think Jake is an above average runner. He really figured out the read option the last half of the season.
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I don't think our running backs suck and, with good competition, one will emerge. I also think Jake is an above average runner. He really figured out the read option the last half of the season.
Compared to CK and Sams, he's pretty mediocre. But that's a pretty unfair gauge, IMO. Jake moves fine for a guy that is more of a passer than a runner.
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I don't think our running backs suck and, with good competition, one will emerge. I also think Jake is an above average runner. He really figured out the read option the last half of the season.
Compared to CK and Sams, he's pretty mediocre. But that's a pretty unfair gauge, IMO. Jake moves fine for a guy that is more of a passer than a runner.
True dat!!!
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
Defensive speed of Tejas, Landthieves, and Bible Aggy will pose problems to that approach.
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How come no one else emulates Stanford's run game? They seem to be good at it.
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
Defensive speed of Tejas, Landthieves, and Bible Aggy will pose problems to that approach.
Nope. Spread them out and a speedy running back in LHC Bill Snyder's system will tear those teams apart. Just look at what Darren Sproles did to OU in 2003.
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
Defensive speed of Tejas, Landthieves, and Bible Aggy will pose problems to that approach.
Nope. Spread them out and a speedy running back in LHC Bill Snyder's system will tear those teams apart. Just look at what Darren Sproles did to OU in 2003.
What did speedy sproles do in 2004?
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Fitz told Kietz it looks like Jones
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Fitz told Kietz it looks like Jones
warmack tho
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I thought Jones looked good in the spring game. Hopefully he can block and not fumble.
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I thought Jones looked good in the spring game. Hopefully he can block and not fumble.
Leave the blocking to Gronk and our stud o-line. Just worry about ball security.
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I thought Jones looked good in the spring game. Hopefully he can block and not fumble.
Leave the blocking to Gronk and our stud o-line. Just worry about ball security.
Single back sets, tho. Any RB is going to need to block, especially a Snyder RB.
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I'm hoping our RB's are studs enough that Warmack can redshirt. Or that Warmack is so stud that he starts. Either of those scenarios is fine with me.
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I thought Jones looked good in the spring game. Hopefully he can block and not fumble.
Jones was serviceable, but Leverett was considerably more productive behind a worse OL and against the 1st string defense, tho. Hopefully Leverett can block and not fumble also.
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I thought Jones looked good in the spring game. Hopefully he can block and not fumble.
Jones was serviceable, but Leverett was considerably more productive behind a worse OL and against the 1st string defense, tho. Hopefully Leverett can block and not fumble also.
And get out of a walking boot.
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The Heirarchy of K-State Running Priorities:
1. Don't fumble
2. Know the plays
3. Block
4. Intangibles
5. Intrinsic Values
6. Don't fumble
7. Running with the football ability.
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Whoever wins the job is going to need to have a lot of speed. We are going to spread the defense out with our pass attack. We need a running back that can hit those holes before the defense can close back down.
Defensive speed of Tejas, Landthieves, and Bible Aggy will pose problems to that approach.
Nope. Spread them out and a speedy running back in LHC Bill Snyder's system will tear those teams apart. Just look at what Darren Sproles did to OU in 2003.
What did speedy sproles do in 2004?
Nothing, but we had no passing game in 2004. Webb was an OK runner I guess.
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No
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Maybe we should play our good rb :dunno:
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Robinson is so tentative. Not patient. Tentative.
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Maybe we should play our good rb :dunno:
You mean the one currently at over 5 ypc today?
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Maybe we should play our good rb :dunno:
You mean the one currently at over 5 ypc today?
Yes! I do mean that one!
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RATHER, I think we see a return of the bubble option that CCQ made so famous. Hey, that was marginally effective, and CCQ was in charge. I don't think it's a stretch (lil running game humor ;) ) to say that Waters is probably a better runner that Coffman was. That could be a really solid set, especially if we line up Lockett in the slot.
we did this today! good job, me!
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RATHER, I think we see a return of the bubble option that CCQ made so famous. Hey, that was marginally effective, and CCQ was in charge. I don't think it's a stretch (lil running game humor ;) ) to say that Waters is probably a better runner that Coffman was. That could be a really solid set, especially if we line up Lockett in the slot.
we did this today! good job, me!
POP pass with bubble slant. Waters first looked at the slant, then went to a bubble. At this point its just a variation of POP pass.
I have no doubt that Robinson is "faster" than Jones, but he has average vision and below average explosiveness. Jones isn't going to break many long runs, but his combination of explosiveness and vision makes him a consistent runner, actually very similar to Sams. I'll take that guy every time over the "fast" guy who can't get going very fast.
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RATHER, I think we see a return of the bubble option that CCQ made so famous. Hey, that was marginally effective, and CCQ was in charge. I don't think it's a stretch (lil running game humor ;) ) to say that Waters is probably a better runner that Coffman was. That could be a really solid set, especially if we line up Lockett in the slot.
we did this today! good job, me!
POP pass with bubble slant. Waters first looked at the slant, then went to a bubble. At this point its just a variation of POP pass.
I have no doubt that Robinson is "faster" than Jones, but he has average vision and below average explosiveness. Jones isn't going to break many long runs, but his combination of explosiveness and vision makes him a consistent runner, actually very similar to Sams. I'll take that guy every time over the "fast" guy who can't get going very fast.
Glad you agree we should play the good rb more. Very frustrating that he's still sharing time
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Our leading rusher is now missing a shoulder
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So DRob finishes with 66 yards, 8.3 per and a big 38 yard run. Thanks for making me look dumb.
Jones did have a big run for a key first down at the end.
Overall a 32 rush, 160 yard day (5.0 per) is pretty darn good in Norman.
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So DRob finishes with 66 yards, 8.3 per and a big 38 yard run. Thanks for making me look dumb.
Jones did have a big run for a key first down at the end.
Overall a 32 rush, 160 yard day (5.0 per) is pretty darn good in Norman.
yeah, it ended up being a nice day on the ground. the o-line continues to open up great holes, if our backs ever make a guy miss or break a tackle within 5 yds of the LOS we will be in great shape.
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Jake had 51 yards rushing with a long of 52 yards. CFB adding sacks to QB rushing always looks funny.
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D'Blocker is strong... carry's defensive lineman for power yardage.
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Lots of sacks and hard hits on our guy jake again today :frown:
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Lots of sacks and hard hits on our guy jake again today :frown:
Ouch! Don't know if he has CK toughness.