Post by: Fedor on July 30, 2013, 04:06:25 PM
Post by: AppleJack on July 30, 2013, 04:19:38 PM
HTH Fedor!
Post by: Fedor on July 30, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
Annexation of Puerto Rico. I heard Icebox got into porn or something. Rick Moranis sings country music now too.No help at all, but thanks anyway AJ!!
HTH Fedor!
Post by: star seed 7 on July 30, 2013, 04:35:20 PM
Don't you be talkin bout my mama!
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:03:39 PM
Post by: steve dave on August 20, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:12:58 PM
fedor, he's just a kid. jfc.But the dad is a piece of crap tho, right?
Post by: steve dave on August 20, 2014, 03:13:42 PM
Post by: meow meow on August 20, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:15:01 PM
you seem like a piece of crap that shouldn't be allowed to attend little kids sporting events tbhI am very nice to all the kids.
Post by: slobber on August 20, 2014, 03:15:27 PM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Skipper44 on August 20, 2014, 03:16:50 PM
you seem like a piece of crap that shouldn't be allowed to attend little kids sporting events tbhi can't wait for the SD posts when SD jr starts playing for the Northwest Sarppy County Lil' Blackshirts
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:17:15 PM
Does Fedorjr have a little brother? Throw in an adorable story about the little brother and stop bitching about the coaches. There is your recipe for gE gold.I was one of the coaches, if you said anything against the coaches kid being QB he would pull your kid out of the game.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Asteriskhead on August 20, 2014, 03:31:35 PM
Does Fedorjr have a little brother? Throw in an adorable story about the little brother and stop bitching about the coaches. There is your recipe for gE gold.I was one of the coaches, if you said anything against the coaches kid being QB he would pull your kid out of the game.
Gonna win 'em all!
Sounds like the guy I played Pop Warner for. He eventually called all of us pussies during a practice in 4th grade, so the majority of us left and started our own team the next season.
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Yes, get off your high horse until you start having to deal with these jackasses.you seem like a piece of crap that shouldn't be allowed to attend little kids sporting events tbhi can't wait for the SD posts when SD jr starts playing for the Northwest Sarppy County Lil' Blackshirts
Post by: steve dave on August 20, 2014, 03:38:50 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 03:41:32 PM
I think it's a good start that you are no longer involved in coaching these kidsAnother guy and I were the only positive role models they had on that field, they loved us.
Post by: AppleJack on August 20, 2014, 04:10:06 PM
Post by: CHONGS on August 20, 2014, 04:21:50 PM
Would everyone agree I would probably be the best youth football coach? I have a lot of really unusual ideas on the gridiron.I certainly would NOT agree. You would run a shoddy ship Cap'n AppleJack. People would be cleared by the jib or mess up the placement of the jibboom. You would probably misalign the spinnaker pole and tangle the stay mouse.
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
I don't think there is any reason to go nautical on AJ. I think his imagination would be an asset, but don't forget the fundamentals!Would everyone agree I would probably be the best youth football coach? I have a lot of really unusual ideas on the gridiron.I certainly would NOT agree. You would run a shoddy ship Cap'n AppleJack. People would be cleared by the jib or mess up the placement of the jibboom. You would probably misalign the spinnaker pole and tangle the stay mouse.
Post by: XocolateThundarr on August 20, 2014, 08:29:50 PM
Post by: Pete on August 20, 2014, 09:36:17 PM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.
You are a good Dad.
My son is not a great athlete. I think I may have a thespian or a hard core gamer here. I am cool with whatever. In this day and age, those skills are probably better translated to career success in America than sports prowess.
Post by: XocolateThundarr on August 20, 2014, 09:37:58 PM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.
You are a good Dad.
My son is not a great athlete. I think I may have a thespian or a hard core gamer here. I am cool with whatever. In this day and age, those skills are probably better translated to career success in America than sports prowess.
:thumbsup:
Post by: Fedor on August 20, 2014, 09:51:57 PM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.That is the worst thing about shitty youth coaches that have ulterior motives. Ruining the entire sport for a kid before they even have a chance to find out if they like it. There was a number of kids who did not even want to play this year and every chance I could I told them that it would be completely different and to not give up on it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: XocolateThundarr on August 20, 2014, 10:01:13 PM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.That is the worst thing about shitty youth coaches that have ulterior motives. Ruining the entire sport for a kid before they even have a chance to find out if they like it. There was a number of kids who did not even want to play this year and every chance I could I told them that it would be completely different and to not give up on it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He liked it....had played for 4+ years since 2nd grade. Dumbass dude that tried to run Oregon offense with 5th graders and ate their ass when they couldn't pull off the motion offense ruined it for him and several others...... very disappointing for my son.
Post by: ben ji on August 20, 2014, 10:12:38 PM
Qualifications include
-In 7th grade the coach created a "Monster Back" Position for me where I could do whatever I wanted as a linebacker.
-HONORABLE MENTION all JOCO as a senior.
-Was once ranked 330 in the world at NCAA College Football(NCAA 2013) while playing only as the KSU Katz
-Coached Frat Intramural team for 3 years turning a 0-5 team into a playoff team who lost to the eventual Frat league champions.
-Super good at being really nice to every kid even if they are not good at football.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 08:22:02 AM
Its ben ji's dream to coach is unborn male childs football team.You are 10 times more qualified than anyone I coached with couple years.
Qualifications include
-In 7th grade the coach created a "Monster Back" Position for me where I could do whatever I wanted as a linebacker.
-HONORABLE MENTION all JOCO as a senior.
-Was once ranked 330 in the world at NCAA College Football(NCAA 2013) while playing only as the KSU Katz
-Coached Frat Intramural team for 3 years turning a 0-5 team into a playoff team who lost to the eventual Frat league champions.
-Super good at being really nice to every kid even if they are not good at football.
Here is the list;
Baseball player in high school, never played football but is a really big Dallas Cowboy fan.
Potential alcoholic, did play high school football but it was 8 man, sounded like Boomhauer when he spoke but w/ more swearing.
Basketball player in high school and JUCO, never played football but was a really nice guy.
The Repeater - he had no idea what was going on and repeated everything that was just said.
Post by: slobber on August 21, 2014, 08:47:49 AM
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: ben ji on August 21, 2014, 10:16:14 AM
Ben ji, the only thing you need to change on your list is "coach created a Monster back position..." Nearly every jr high school coach creates that position. It does bode well for you that you were selected to play it!
Gonna win 'em all!
at the time i thought it was the coolest thing ever
Post by: steve dave on August 21, 2014, 10:30:28 AM
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 10:37:18 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on August 21, 2014, 10:43:42 AM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 10:53:03 AM
I was QB in 7th grade. Coach loved to run the option, but I was pretty selfish with it, cause I liked to score the TD's. :frown: I did a lot of fake pitches and would just rumble it into the endzone. I also liked to throw to my tight end a lot, cause he was massive for our age. On defense, I played D-end and eff'd stuff up! :comeatme:That sounds like a blast Wacky!
Post by: AppleJack on August 21, 2014, 11:22:55 AM
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 11:29:45 AM
I've designed an offense that is basically a hybrid of the early 90's Houston Oilers Run and Shoot offense mixed with the Navy wishbone.How do you run a counter out of that backfield formation? Because that play is like Kryptonite to a bunch of 5th grade knuckleheads.
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Post by: XocolateThundarr on August 21, 2014, 12:02:01 PM
I've designed an offense that is basically a hybrid of the early 90's Houston Oilers Run and Shoot offense mixed with the Navy wishbone.How do you run a counter out of that backfield formation? Because that play is like Kryptonite to a bunch of 5th grade knuckleheads.
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Naked bootlegs are also quite fun to run at that age.....it is a thing of beauty to see that little QB all by himself on one side of the field.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 01:35:06 PM
Yes, just imagine the seas parting and your QB breaking into the open, his little legs pumping and churning, the defense is totally fooled. There are acres of room in front of him, folks!! HE COULD...GO...All...THE...taken down for a 4 yard gain.I've designed an offense that is basically a hybrid of the early 90's Houston Oilers Run and Shoot offense mixed with the Navy wishbone.How do you run a counter out of that backfield formation? Because that play is like Kryptonite to a bunch of 5th grade knuckleheads.
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Naked bootlegs are also quite fun to run at that age.....it is a thing of beauty to see that little QB all by himself on one side of the field.
Are you beginning to see my frustration here? Don't forget the other highlights; once the side judge asked us why we had a guard playing quarterback; we couldn't run anything off tackle because the QB could not make the handoff, we had a series of fumbles before we figured that one out, the kid would just chuck the ball at the RB after he took a couple of steps; the head coach would threaten the WR's with never throwing to them again if they did not run hard only to have the ball fall 10 yards short. They were crazy times for sure!!
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 01:38:31 PM
Yes, just imagine the seas parting and your QB breaking into the open, his little legs pumping and churning, the defense is totally fooled. There are acres of room in front of him, folks!! HE COULD...GO...All...THE...taken down for a 4 yard gain.I've designed an offense that is basically a hybrid of the early 90's Houston Oilers Run and Shoot offense mixed with the Navy wishbone.How do you run a counter out of that backfield formation? Because that play is like Kryptonite to a bunch of 5th grade knuckleheads.
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Naked bootlegs are also quite fun to run at that age.....it is a thing of beauty to see that little QB all by himself on one side of the field.
Are you beginning to see my frustration here? Don't forget the other highlights; once the side judge asked us why we had a guard playing quarterback; we couldn't run anything off tackle because the QB could not make the handoff, we had a series of fumbles before we figured that one out, the kid would just chuck the ball at the RB after he took a couple of steps; the head coach would threaten the WR's with never throwing to them again if they did not run hard only to have the ball fall 10 yards short. They were crazy times for sure!!
Hey Assistant Coach Know-it-all, why weren't you the head coach?
Post by: slobber on August 21, 2014, 01:41:40 PM
(I played guard my Jr and Sr year, SO SUCK IT!)
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 01:43:58 PM
He had that covered as well, the youth football was run by a private organization and he had worked his way up to vice president. Why the aggressive tone from you michi? Are you offended that I would be annoyed by this guy's selfish behavior?Yes, just imagine the seas parting and your QB breaking into the open, his little legs pumping and churning, the defense is totally fooled. There are acres of room in front of him, folks!! HE COULD...GO...All...THE...taken down for a 4 yard gain.I've designed an offense that is basically a hybrid of the early 90's Houston Oilers Run and Shoot offense mixed with the Navy wishbone.How do you run a counter out of that backfield formation? Because that play is like Kryptonite to a bunch of 5th grade knuckleheads.
O OOOOO O O (<---- this guy is off the line of scrimmage obv)
O O
O
What does everyone think of that crap?
Naked bootlegs are also quite fun to run at that age.....it is a thing of beauty to see that little QB all by himself on one side of the field.
Are you beginning to see my frustration here? Don't forget the other highlights; once the side judge asked us why we had a guard playing quarterback; we couldn't run anything off tackle because the QB could not make the handoff, we had a series of fumbles before we figured that one out, the kid would just chuck the ball at the RB after he took a couple of steps; the head coach would threaten the WR's with never throwing to them again if they did not run hard only to have the ball fall 10 yards short. They were crazy times for sure!!
Hey Assistant Coach Know-it-all, why weren't you the head coach?
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 01:58:54 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 02:05:03 PM
I'm not offended, you just sound like a whiner.:bait:
Nope, just excited to see what these kids can do now that the shackles are off.
Post by: kso_FAN on August 21, 2014, 02:19:40 PM
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 02:39:33 PM
Make sure you do a service to your kids and teach them all how to play. Its too easy at that age to have one slightly more mature kid and build your team around him (toss right, toss left) while everyone else is a spectator and doesn't learn much about how to play.
I love how you say the same thing as me so much more directly and nice at the same time. Really! I can learn from you!
Every kid should get a shot at QB. They're kids!
Post by: steve dave on August 21, 2014, 02:44:34 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on August 21, 2014, 03:01:33 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:03:00 PM
Make sure you do a service to your kids and teach them all how to play. Its too easy at that age to have one slightly more mature kid and build your team around him (toss right, toss left) while everyone else is a spectator and doesn't learn much about how to play.Let's hope you are right because I was coaching all those other kids as hard as I could to make up for the circus we had going on in the backfield.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:05:01 PM
a rusty, _FAN, sd coached pee-wee league sports team would be so much fun (for everyone involved except the parents who want their kid to be a star and act like pieces of trash)Agreed, except replace mich with me and SD with benji. Dream Team!
Post by: Spracne on August 21, 2014, 03:06:13 PM
Make sure you do a service to your kids and teach them all how to play. Its too easy at that age to have one slightly more mature kid and build your team around him (toss right, toss left) while everyone else is a spectator and doesn't learn much about how to play.Let's hope you are right because I was coaching all those other kids as hard as I could to make up for the circus we had going on in the backfield.
Better fire up more two-a-days, coach!
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 03:06:56 PM
Youth league football wouldn't be much fun to coach, imo, because you just don't have enough practice time. Baseball is pretty much the only youth league sport that I think I could do a good job with.
If you start coaching soccer with kids that are really young and aren't a complete dummy it's easy to be pretty awesome and figure it out as they get older.
I should publish my youth soccer coaching guide for people who don't want to be complete dummies.
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 03:10:53 PM
Post by: kso_FAN on August 21, 2014, 03:14:10 PM
Make sure you do a service to your kids and teach them all how to play. Its too easy at that age to have one slightly more mature kid and build your team around him (toss right, toss left) while everyone else is a spectator and doesn't learn much about how to play.
I love how you say the same thing as me so much more directly and nice at the same time. Really! I can learn from you!Every kid should get a shot at QB. They're kids!
:D
By the way, I agree with John Madden (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/05/john-madden-doesnt-believe-in-the-heads-up-football-program/) that little kids don't need to be playing tackle football. Middle school is plenty early for kids to tackle, before that flag is enough for them to learn the game, how to compete, and still have fun.
Post by: Brock Landers on August 21, 2014, 03:16:02 PM
Youth league football wouldn't be much fun to coach, imo, because you just don't have enough practice time. Baseball is pretty much the only youth league sport that I think I could do a good job with.
If you start coaching soccer with kids that are really young and aren't a complete dummy it's easy to be pretty awesome and figure it out as they get older.
I should publish my youth soccer coaching guide for people who don't want to be complete dummies.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.betterworldbooks.com%2F047%2FCoaching-Soccer-for-Dummies-9780471773818.jpg&hash=d7c341a47ddf15c51fbd6ffc44e8bbacc8f0da30)
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:18:31 PM
And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on August 21, 2014, 03:24:56 PM
And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
Did you try asking their parents why they are forcing their kids to play football when they clearly have no interest?
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:27:41 PM
What would that accomplish? You just try to make them better and bring them out of the shell.And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
Did you try asking their parents why they are forcing their kids to play football when they clearly have no interest?
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 03:28:40 PM
And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
It's almost like you didn't read my post.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach - how on earth does hiding a timid player help those kids?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on August 21, 2014, 03:31:35 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Are you qualified to ask this question?And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
It's almost like you didn't read my post.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach - how on earth does hiding a timid player help those kids?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on August 21, 2014, 03:40:29 PM
What would that accomplish? You just try to make them better and bring them out of the shell.And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
Did you try asking their parents why they are forcing their kids to play football when they clearly have no interest?
Maybe you could at least convince the parents to try to stop living vicariously through their children. :dunno:
Just seems like risking injury on a football field the kid doesn't even want to be on is not in his best interest.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 03:45:32 PM
I was not there to solve parenting issues, bruh. All kids are timid at first, some come out of it and others never do.What would that accomplish? You just try to make them better and bring them out of the shell.And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
Did you try asking their parents why they are forcing their kids to play football when they clearly have no interest?
Maybe you could at least convince the parents to try to stop living vicariously through their children. :dunno:
Just seems like risking injury on a football field the kid doesn't even want to be on is not in his best interest.
Post by: AppleJack on August 21, 2014, 04:00:41 PM
X X
X X X X X
X X X X
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 04:04:48 PM
Are you qualified to ask this question?And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
It's almost like you didn't read my post.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach - how on earth does hiding a timid player help those kids?
yes
Regarding letting everyone have a shot at skill positions - I think you, (or perhaps more accurately the youth football culture you are wrapped up in) places too much value in winning and not enough on making kids better athletes. Who cares if you have a few more turnovers giving every kid a chance at QB?
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:08:05 PM
What does everyone think of this defense I just designedI don't like it. Sorry, friend.
X X
X X X X X
X X X X
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:09:52 PM
The fact that you asked the question gives me a pretty good idea that you are not. Go think about it and let me know what you come up with.Are you qualified to ask this question?And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.You can let them try in practice but in games possessions are too precious, you are only going to have a few. Also in youth football maybe a quarter of your team are made up of what are called "hiders" who will never make a tackle if they played one hundred games. They are just scared of contact and will stand and watch the ball carrier run right by them. So have to work around them and still give them playing time somewhere they wont kill you. Crazy times I am telling you!
It's almost like you didn't read my post.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach - how on earth does hiding a timid player help those kids?
yes
Regarding letting everyone have a shot at skill positions - I think you, (or perhaps more accurately the youth football culture you are wrapped up in) places too much value in winning and not enough on making kids better athletes. Who cares if you have a few more turnovers giving every kid a chance at QB?
Post by: AppleJack on August 21, 2014, 04:13:24 PM
Some 9 year old does the worm straight through the line if scrimmage. BAM! sack. -9 yards.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:16:03 PM
If I were a youth football coach I would design the worm safety blitz.One year we had a tiny little guy who was mean as hell. He lined up at noseguard and was in the backfield every play.
Some 9 year old does the worm straight through the line if scrimmage. BAM! sack. -9 yards.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:17:52 PM
Post by: ben ji on August 21, 2014, 04:21:05 PM
And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.
There is very little passing/catching in youth football, like maybe 5-10 attempts a game at most.
ben ji played center instead of WR from 5-8th grade because of this. The plus side of that is I CAN LONGSNAP!!!
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 04:26:40 PM
And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.
There is very little passing/catching in youth football, like maybe 5-10 attempts a game at most.
well, yeah. the coaches are mostly concerned with winning and not developing athletes. (see: this thread)
And you could develop a hybrid version of 7 on 7 that involves some sort of running game and no tackling/hitting that would be more appropriate for youth.
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:35:26 PM
They already have that it is called flag football. Different strokes for different folks, ya know. Live and let live, why does there have to be one right answer?And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.
There is very little passing/catching in youth football, like maybe 5-10 attempts a game at most.
well, yeah. the coaches are mostly concerned with winning and not developing athletes. (see: this thread)
And you could develop a hybrid version of 7 on 7 that involves some sort of running game and no tackling/hitting that would be more appropriate for youth.
Also, do you have a guess as to why your question was so stupid that it caused me to question if you had the basic knowledge to even be in this conversation?
Post by: star seed 7 on August 21, 2014, 04:37:03 PM
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on August 21, 2014, 04:37:38 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 21, 2014, 04:40:29 PM
When you work out every kid at QB, then you also have to work every kid out at all of the other positions if you are going to field a team. I don't think most teams practice more than a few hours per week. It would be incredibly hard to teach kids blocking assignments, handoffs, routes, passing mechanics, tackling techniques, pass coverage techniques, etc. with that amount of practice time. It really only would work under a 7 on 7 scenario.Yes, we all know it is a dumb assertion and mich knows it too, but he is GEing his little heart out.
Post by: meow meow on August 21, 2014, 04:47:57 PM
Post by: Spracne on August 21, 2014, 04:50:40 PM
O O O O O O O
OO O
^
|
_____|
/
/
/
O
----5---------------------------------------------------------5----
Post by: michigancat on August 21, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
They already have that it is called flag football. Different strokes for different folks, ya know. Live and let live, why does there have to be one right answer?And I agree youth football would be ridiculously difficult to coach. It should be 7 on 7 (or 6 on 6) until at least junior high, and probably high school. Let every kid take turns at every skill position, it would be better for everyone.
There is very little passing/catching in youth football, like maybe 5-10 attempts a game at most.
well, yeah. the coaches are mostly concerned with winning and not developing athletes. (see: this thread)
And you could develop a hybrid version of 7 on 7 that involves some sort of running game and no tackling/hitting that would be more appropriate for youth.
Also, do you have a guess as to why your question was so stupid that it caused me to question if you had the basic knowledge to even be in this conversation?
There doesn't have to be one right answer, but it's obvious the system you are working in can be improved, don't you think? Yet you seem to vigorously defend a system that led you to start a thread to complain about.
Also, good coaches should be able to defend their actions or answer questions they don't want to hear without acting like a child.
When you work out every kid at QB, then you also have to work every kid out at all of the other positions if you are going to field a team. I don't think most teams practice more than a few hours per week. It would be incredibly hard to teach kids blocking assignments, handoffs, routes, passing mechanics, tackling techniques, pass coverage techniques, etc. with that amount of practice time. It really only would work under a 7 on 7 scenario.Yes, we all know it is a dumb assertion and mich knows it too, but he is GEing his little heart out.
pretty sure I explicitly suggested it being 7 on 7? :confused:
Post by: star seed 7 on August 21, 2014, 04:54:01 PM
Thoughts on this 4th down play I just drew up?
O O O O O O O
OO O
O
Seems risky to run out of, especially on your own 10 yard line
Post by: WonderMeal on August 21, 2014, 08:02:59 PM
Would def want someone like _FAN coaching them.
Post by: AppleJack on August 21, 2014, 08:34:22 PM
As a former and future coach of youngsters, I'm not so sure I would want Fedor coaching WonderMealina, WonderMeal Jr., or WonderMealette.
Would def want someone like _FAN coaching them.
did you even see the plays i drew up?
Post by: KST8FAN on August 22, 2014, 01:33:30 AM
Tom
Post by: SdK on August 22, 2014, 02:23:30 AM
To speak to the original point of this thread. My sister was/is a great athlete and played a lot of flag football growing up. Every year she was the qb. Twice over the coaches son. Looking back, I applaud them. In HS, she started all four years at pg. And her fb mentality carried over. Girls would try to use the sideline as an extra defender and she'd just lower her shoulder and draw the blocking call 2/3 times. Got a few charging calls too. Haha.
Post by: Tobias on August 22, 2014, 07:00:13 AM
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 08:29:34 AM
As a former and future coach of youngsters, I'm not so sure I would want Fedor coaching WonderMealina, WonderMeal Jr., or WonderMealette.WM, my issue was that the head coach played his son, who was terrible, at QB and LB, for selfish reasons, refused to let anyone else develop at QB, blamed other players when his son messed up and when parents spoke out he took it out on their kids. What is your problem with that?
Would def want someone like _FAN coaching them.
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: michigancat
Hey Assistant Coach Know-it-all, why weren't you the head coach?
I'm not offended, you just sound like a whiner.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach
Why are you trying so hard to aggravate me? We can have this discussion, but please assure me that you are operating in good faith. If you just want to troll admit it and we can both move on.
Quote from: michigancat
There doesn't have to be one right answer, but it's obvious the system you are working in can be improved, don't you think? Yet you seem to vigorously defend a system that led you to start a thread to complain about.
Of course a system can be improved. However, I was not complaining about the system. I take issue with people abusing the system to the detriment of all others.
Quote from: michigancat
Also, good coaches should be able to defend their actions or answer questions they don't want to hear without acting like a child.
This appears to be another attempt to instigate an emotional response for your own gratification (v. weird behavior btw). However, I will address it in a show of good faith, how you choose to respond will determine the future course of this conversation. This, I assume, was in response to my questioning your qualifications to ask your question. I wont back off of this but perhaps I can soften it. You need to admit to yourself that you are arguing from a position of ignorance. There have been no less than three people in this thread give a valid reason why your solution would not work within the framework we are working in. It is probably time to move on to another point. If you are not able to do this I will accept this as an admission your are not debating in good faith and again, we can both move on.
Quote from: michigancat
Covered above, flag football. The league we are in is very up front about being a competitive league. If there are folks that have issue with it there are other places to go.When you work out every kid at QB, then you also have to work every kid out at all of the other positions if you are going to field a team. I don't think most teams practice more than a few hours per week. It would be incredibly hard to teach kids blocking assignments, handoffs, routes, passing mechanics, tackling techniques, pass coverage techniques, etc. with that amount of practice time. It really only would work under a 7 on 7 scenario.Yes, we all know it is a dumb assertion and mich knows it too, but he is GEing his little heart out.
pretty sure I explicitly suggested it being 7 on 7? :confused:
Post by: Cire on August 22, 2014, 09:26:55 AM
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 09:30:29 AM
There is nothing worse (IMO) than youth teams that just run plays for 80% of their practice, usually coaching 1 or 2 guys while the rest stand around when the play doesn't go "right". Also youth coaches thinking they need to have a playbook that is an inch thick and then when their plays "don't work" one week they change the entire offense for the next week.
There should be long portions of your practice where players are broken out by position just learning techniques (both offense and defense). If you have 3 or 4 coaches this is easy to do. There should be portions of your practice where you teach special teams. There should be very little time when kids are standing around and not learning something about the position(s) they play.
And again, my biggest issue is usually a youth coach gets one kid that is physically superior to everyone else and they think they are the Nick Saban of some 10 year old football league and their ego is fed by trying to catch Bear Bryant's win total instead of really teaching a group of kids how to play the game.
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 09:44:54 AM
How do you manage practices? Do you have coaches broken out by position?Yep, we broke out into positions for most of the practice time. My son is through with youth football now and having seen it I agree that there is not much use for tackle football for younger kids. I think one year before you get into middle school would be advantageous because it seemed to take a full year for a kid to get acclimated to the contact. Flag football is probably a better option for the kids that are younger than 6th grade.
There is nothing worse (IMO) than youth teams that just run plays for 80% of their practice, usually coaching 1 or 2 guys while the rest stand around when the play doesn't go "right". Also youth coaches thinking they need to have a playbook that is an inch thick and then when their plays "don't work" one week they change the entire offense for the next week.
There should be long portions of your practice where players are broken out by position just learning techniques (both offense and defense). If you have 3 or 4 coaches this is easy to do. There should be portions of your practice where you teach special teams. There should be very little time when kids are standing around and not learning something about the position(s) they play.
And again, my biggest issue is usually a youth coach gets one kid that is physically superior to everyone else and they think they are the Nick Saban of some 10 year old football league and their ego is fed by trying to catch Bear Bryant's win total instead of really teaching a group of kids how to play the game.
Post by: Skipper44 on August 22, 2014, 09:48:41 AM
we should clone tom to coach all of America's youth. maybe life coach 'em, tooagree, I would like to be Tom when I grow up
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 10:23:39 AM
Yep, we broke out into positions for most of the practice time. My son is through with youth football now and having seen it I agree that there is not much use for tackle football for younger kids. I think one year before you get into middle school would be advantageous because it seemed to take a full year for a kid to get acclimated to the contact. Flag football is probably a better option for the kids that are younger than 6th grade.
Yes, I agree with this 100%.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2014, 11:17:25 AM
Yeah, I've been unfairly picking on you. I was wrong and I apologize.Quote from: michigancatHey Assistant Coach Know-it-all, why weren't you the head coach?
I'm not offended, you just sound like a whiner.
You also sound like you could use some work as a coach
Why are you trying so hard to aggravate me? We can have this discussion, but please assure me that you are operating in good faith. If you just want to troll admit it and we can both move on.
Still, I get the feeling that your primary objectives are:
1) Winning
2) Some other kid playing QB
And that's fine since it's a "competitive" league, but even in a competitive league, I think the primary concerns should be:
1) Kids have fun
2) Kids develop a love of the game and want to play next year
3) Kids developing skills and physical fitness
Granted, winning is often a major part of having fun, but it's generally not as important to the kids as it is the parents. And I may be wrong about you, it's just the impression I get from your comments.
I also think you found a shitty organization/situation, and that's unfortunate. How many other coaches were there? If it was really as bad as you make it seem, you should have gotten the other coaches and quit and pulled your kids in protest. You also should have complained to the organization president and every other board member or whoever's in charge - punishing a parent's kids when questioned is unacceptable behavior and he shouldn't have been allowed to coach.
Quote from: michigancatAlso, good coaches should be able to defend their actions or answer questions they don't want to hear without acting like a child.
This appears to be another attempt to instigate an emotional response for your own gratification (v. weird behavior btw). However, I will address it in a show of good faith, how you choose to respond will determine the future course of this conversation. This, I assume, was in response to my questioning your qualifications to ask your question. I wont back off of this but perhaps I can soften it. You need to admit to yourself that you are arguing from a position of ignorance. There have been no less than three people in this thread give a valid reason why your solution would not work within the framework we are working in. It is probably time to move on to another point. If you are not able to do this I will accept this as an admission your are not debating in good faith and again, we can both move on.
My original question was genuine. How are you helping the kid you're trying to "hide"? You said yourself "the league we are in is very up front about being a competitive league." So why play him or even allow him to be a part of the team?
Yep, we broke out into positions for most of the practice time. My son is through with youth football now and having seen it I agree that there is not much use for tackle football for younger kids. I think one year before you get into middle school would be advantageous because it seemed to take a full year for a kid to get acclimated to the contact. Flag football is probably a better option for the kids that are younger than 6th grade.
We really aren't that far apart. I just think flag football should be played even later than you do - you can make it competitive. Kids in middle school still have a ton of development left and I think it's ridiculous to force them to begin specializing a position so young. Plus you would have fewer players on a team leading to more teams and therefore more reps for everyone. You'd find WR's that may have been stuck at line in middle school, you would have options at QB beyond the fat kid whose dad was the coach, and fewer lifetime blows to the head for everyone.
IMO a forward-thinking district/program/state could successfully implement a goal of no contact until high school, and begin gradually delaying contact to see how it impacts kids at the varsity level. Yes, it likely takes a year to adjust to contact, but if you could get a lot of people to sign on, I think it would be immensely popular with parents. It's a far-fetched idea that would probably take even more damaging research about head injuries to happen, though.
Post by: Skipper44 on August 22, 2014, 11:25:48 AM
I could absolutely see this happen in NE where youth & HS football is not the religion it is in other places. The Sox Nation could be the next cradle of QBs.
We really aren't that far apart. I just think flag football should be played even later than you do - you can make it competitive. Kids in middle school still have a ton of development left and I think it's ridiculous to force them to begin specializing a position so young. Plus you would have fewer players on a team leading to more teams and therefore more reps for everyone. You'd find WR's that may have been stuck at line in middle school, you would have options at QB beyond the fat kid whose dad was the coach, and fewer lifetime blows to the head for everyone.
IMO a forward-thinking district/program/state could successfully implement a goal of no contact until high school, and begin gradually delaying contact to see how it impacts kids at the varsity level. Yes, it likely takes a year to adjust to contact, but if you could get a lot of people to sign on, I think it would be immensely popular with parents. It's a far-fetched idea that would probably take even more damaging research about head injuries to happen, though.
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 11:34:02 AM
I could absolutely see this happen in NE where youth & HS football is not the religion it is in other places. The Sox Nation could be the next cradle of QBs.
We really aren't that far apart. I just think flag football should be played even later than you do - you can make it competitive. Kids in middle school still have a ton of development left and I think it's ridiculous to force them to begin specializing a position so young. Plus you would have fewer players on a team leading to more teams and therefore more reps for everyone. You'd find WR's that may have been stuck at line in middle school, you would have options at QB beyond the fat kid whose dad was the coach, and fewer lifetime blows to the head for everyone.
IMO a forward-thinking district/program/state could successfully implement a goal of no contact until high school, and begin gradually delaying contact to see how it impacts kids at the varsity level. Yes, it likely takes a year to adjust to contact, but if you could get a lot of people to sign on, I think it would be immensely popular with parents. It's a far-fetched idea that would probably take even more damaging research about head injuries to happen, though.
Its possible.
FWIW, I'm not sold that the head injury impact happens much before middle school aged football. There simply aren't the collisions because the kids neither have the mass nor the speed to create high impact collisions. That's JMHO.
However, there are tons of kids not being coached well as grade schoolers and then they develop bad habits for contact (leading with the head, etc.), so that when they do reach middle school or high school ages they already have a tough time learning how to play the game correctly. Granted, there are still plenty of poor middle school and high school coaches, but I think those are becoming less common because school districts realized they can be sued if they have poorly coached teams when it comes to blocking/tackling technique. Also, head injuries cannot be totally eliminated from the sport because with bigger stronger athletes high impact collisions are bound to happen and slightly incorrect reaction times will lead to contact with the head. Hopefully continued improvements with equipment/helmets will help lessen the effects of those collisions.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2014, 11:39:08 AM
FWIW, I'm not sold that the head injury impact happens much before middle school aged football. There simply aren't the collisions because the kids neither have the mass nor the speed to create high impact collisions. That's JMHO.
There are still a lot of low impact collisions, and I think a lifetime of those adds up. I could be wrong though - like I said, I think it would take more research, specifically on the impact of high and low impact collisions over time.
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 11:50:03 AM
FWIW, I'm not sold that the head injury impact happens much before middle school aged football. There simply aren't the collisions because the kids neither have the mass nor the speed to create high impact collisions. That's JMHO.
There are still a lot of low impact collisions, and I think a lifetime of those adds up. I could be wrong though - like I said, I think it would take more research, specifically on the impact of high and low impact collisions over time.
That's a fair point. I can't claim to know the impact of small collisions on grade school aged kids and it could very well be greater than I think it is.
Post by: steve dave on August 22, 2014, 11:51:38 AM
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 11:54:15 AM
how much more or less susceptible (sp?) are little kid brains to this stuff than adult brains?
I know its more, but I don't know how much more.
Post by: Trim on August 22, 2014, 11:58:45 AM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.
You are a good Dad.
My son is not a great athlete. I think I may have a thespian or a hard core gamer here. I am cool with whatever. In this day and age, those skills are probably better translated to career success in America than sports prowess.
Acting, huh?
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 12:22:37 PM
Yeah, I've been unfairly picking on you. I was wrong and I apologize.
Still, I get the feeling that your primary objectives are:
1) Winning
No, not winning but at least trying to be competitive. I was most irritated thinking about how unfair it was to all the kids sweating and bleeding, all the parents time and money, all the other coaches time and effort wasted so little Johnny can be a QB.
Quote
2) Some other kid playing QB
Absolutely, for all the reasons above. And I fail to see anything wrong with that.
Quote
Not concerned about winning, but having success. Success is defined by me to include the 3 items you list above but also,and this is more specific for lineman types, to understand and take pride in your role and understand how it helps the team. We had a kid who was 5'4" and weighed 225 lbs, just this year he ran a 9 second 40, he is a lineman and would never be anything but a lineman. And he is fantastic at it, a freaking road grader in every sense of the word. He needs to feel pride in being a lineman and own it and work to improve.
And that's fine since it's a "competitive" league, but even in a competitive league, I think the primary concerns should be:
1) Kids have fun
2) Kids develop a love of the game and want to play next year
3) Kids developing skills and physical fitness
Granted, winning is often a major part of having fun, but it's generally not as important to the kids as it is the parents. And I may be wrong about you, it's just the impression I get from your comments.
Quote
I also think you found a shitty organization/situation, and that's unfortunate. How many other coaches were there? If it was really as bad as you make it seem, you should have gotten the other coaches and quit and pulled your kids in protest. You also should have complained to the organization president and every other board member or whoever's in charge - punishing a parent's kids when questioned is unacceptable behavior and he shouldn't have been allowed to coach.
Yes I agree, and I knew alot of this going in. But somehow you convince yourself that it wont be as bad as you think. Another guy I was friends with, and whose son is a legit QB, saw the writing on the wall and went to another org. in another town. I let my son make the decision where he wanted to play and he chose to stay. So I guess I just tried to grin and bear it much of the time.
OK, here is the deal. It is a player safety issue. In football you have to meet the contact, meaning if you are going to get hit you need to hit back. If you don't there is a much greater chance of getting hurt. The kids who are timid will not meet the contact, they close their eyes and stand there or turn their back. In practice you can protect them through managing the matchups but in games there is no way to do that. Once the other team locates them they start getting lit up. And you have to play them because there are league participation requirements. So you "hide" them. As for just kicking them off the team and refunding the money, I am not comfortable with that, it would feel like giving up on the kid. Some do eventually get it and start getting involved, some even in the last game.Quote from: michigancatAlso, good coaches should be able to defend their actions or answer questions they don't want to hear without acting like a child.Quote
This appears to be another attempt to instigate an emotional response for your own gratification (v. weird behavior btw). However, I will address it in a show of good faith, how you choose to respond will determine the future course of this conversation. This, I assume, was in response to my questioning your qualifications to ask your question. I wont back off of this but perhaps I can soften it. You need to admit to yourself that you are arguing from a position of ignorance. There have been no less than three people in this thread give a valid reason why your solution would not work within the framework we are working in. It is probably time to move on to another point. If you are not able to do this I will accept this as an admission your are not debating in good faith and again, we can both move on.
My original question was genuine. How are you helping the kid you're trying to "hide"? You said yourself "the league we are in is very up front about being a competitive league." So why play him or even allow him to be a part of the team?
Yep, we broke out into positions for most of the practice time. My son is through with youth football now and having seen it I agree that there is not much use for tackle football for younger kids. I think one year before you get into middle school would be advantageous because it seemed to take a full year for a kid to get acclimated to the contact. Flag football is probably a better option for the kids that are younger than 6th grade.
We really aren't that far apart. I just think flag football should be played even later than you do - you can make it competitive. Kids in middle school still have a ton of development left and I think it's ridiculous to force them to begin specializing a position so young. Plus you would have fewer players on a team leading to more teams and therefore more reps for everyone. You'd find WR's that may have been stuck at line in middle school, you would have options at QB beyond the fat kid whose dad was the coach, and fewer lifetime blows to the head for everyone.
IMO a forward-thinking district/program/state could successfully implement a goal of no contact until high school, and begin gradually delaying contact to see how it impacts kids at the varsity level. Yes, it likely takes a year to adjust to contact, but if you could get a lot of people to sign on, I think it would be immensely popular with parents. It's a far-fetched idea that would probably take even more damaging research about head injuries to happen, though.
[/quote]
Maybe - there would def. be a lot of resistance to it. And if you consider that the vast majority of careers end after high school, 6 years does not seem like too long for full contact.
Post by: Spracne on August 22, 2014, 12:23:38 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on August 22, 2014, 12:25:42 PM
_fan too
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 12:26:05 PM
My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year. Is going to run cross country instead. One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision. He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice. He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.
You are a good Dad.
My son is not a great athlete. I think I may have a thespian or a hard core gamer here. I am cool with whatever. In this day and age, those skills are probably better translated to career success in America than sports prowess.
Acting, huh?
I think all of that is cool.
I've coached football and basketball for 16 years, but never forced my kids play. My 8th grade son now plays football (started as a 6th grader) and enjoys it. He also plays some tennis. My 5th grader dabbles in tennis and golf and that's about it. I see some merits for making your kids do things, but I think too many kids get turned off or burnt quickly, especially if they aren't overly athletic (neither of my kids are) or because its clear their parents are living vicariously through their kids. To me the key is finding something they like and it doesn't always have to be sports.
XocolateThundarr, it ticks me off when coaches ruin sports for kids. I hope I don't do that for anyone that I coach.
Post by: kso_FAN on August 22, 2014, 12:26:41 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
Fedor I want to read your last post, but it is a quote mess.Yes, good lord I don't know what happened. I was trying to get out of the office for lunch.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2014, 12:55:21 PM
Not concerned about winning, but having success. Success is defined by me to include the 3 items you list above but also,and this is more specific for lineman types, to understand and take pride in your role and understand how it helps the team. We had a kid who was 5'4" and weighed 225 lbs, just this year he ran a 9 second 40, he is a lineman and would never be anything but a lineman. And he is fantastic at it, a freaking road grader in every sense of the word. He needs to feel pride in being a lineman and own it and work to improve.
How old was this kid? 11? 12? His body will evolve. Running some routes would have been great for him, even if he ended up being a lineman. He may have had a great arm, too. I guess we'll never know, oh well.
Yes I agree, and I knew alot of this going in. But somehow you convince yourself that it wont be as bad as you think. Another guy I was friends with, and whose son is a legit QB, saw the writing on the wall and went to another org. in another town. I let my son make the decision where he wanted to play and he chose to stay. So I guess I just tried to grin and bear it much of the time.
Did your son have fun?
OK, here is the deal. It is a player safety issue. In football you have to meet the contact, meaning if you are going to get hit you need to hit back. If you don't there is a much greater chance of getting hurt. The kids who are timid will not meet the contact, they close their eyes and stand there or turn their back. In practice you can protect them through managing the matchups but in games there is no way to do that. Once the other team locates them they start getting lit up. And you have to play them because there are league participation requirements. So you "hide" them. As for just kicking them off the team and refunding the money, I am not comfortable with that, it would feel like giving up on the kid. Some do eventually get it and start getting involved, some even in the last game.
Well, you could have just said the league had participation requirements from the start and what you did would have made a lot more sense. But it seems like your league is sending mixed signals - "competitive leagues" shouldn't have participation requirements. Really, contact football in general probably shouldn't have participation requirements for safety reasons you mentioned.
Post by: pissclams on August 22, 2014, 01:05:29 PM
I was asked to coach my oldest sons 4th grade basketball team after the area director could find no one else. Did it never thinking it was something I would do long term. Needless to say, I got hooked and 15 years later I had coached 11 seasons of basketball (head), 8 seasons of baseball (asst/head), 6 seasons of football (asst/head). Took on a baseball and football team after my sons were out of youth sports because they needed coaches. Nothing more rewarding then seeing kids develop from the 4th-8th grades. The kid who scores 2 points the entire season as a 4th grader to hitting 3 pointers and scoring 20 in his final game as an eighth grader. The scrawny kid who plays center as a 4th grader and matures to become the best combo qb/rb in middle school. Or the shy, tentative kid who didn't want the ball or want to get physical, but finally 'got it' after lots of encouragement and practice. He chose to become a Marine and defend our country out of high school. Finally, retired to enjoy watching my youngest son playing in college now. It did get to be a grind near the end with parents, etc. However, I got far more from coaching than the kids ever got from me I think. Definitely made me a better person.tom what sport is your son playing now
Tom
Post by: CHONGS on August 22, 2014, 01:09:05 PM
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 01:54:53 PM
I was able to get a few quotes from that:It is possible that his body will evolve and if it does he can make a go of it. Plenty of QB's in HS get switched over from another position and do fine. Just because he did not play in 6th grade does not preclude him from doing it in 4 yrs. FTR he does not have an arm, most kids do not at his age. You can tell just from throwing around before and after practice who can throw.Not concerned about winning, but having success. Success is defined by me to include the 3 items you list above but also,and this is more specific for lineman types, to understand and take pride in your role and understand how it helps the team. We had a kid who was 5'4" and weighed 225 lbs, just this year he ran a 9 second 40, he is a lineman and would never be anything but a lineman. And he is fantastic at it, a freaking road grader in every sense of the word. He needs to feel pride in being a lineman and own it and work to improve.
How old was this kid? 11? 12? His body will evolve. Running some routes would have been great for him, even if he ended up being a lineman. He may have had a great arm, too. I guess we'll never know, oh well.
Quote
Yep, he really likes FB, but could have been more fun. And he did complain re: coaches and QB.QuoteYes I agree, and I knew alot of this going in. But somehow you convince yourself that it wont be as bad as you think. Another guy I was friends with, and whose son is a legit QB, saw the writing on the wall and went to another org. in another town. I let my son make the decision where he wanted to play and he chose to stay. So I guess I just tried to grin and bear it much of the time.
Did your son have fun?
Quote
So all this could have been avoided if I had just mentioned participation requirements from the start? The instant judging of me to be a ego driven meathead would have never happened?OK, here is the deal. It is a player safety issue. In football you have to meet the contact, meaning if you are going to get hit you need to hit back. If you don't there is a much greater chance of getting hurt. The kids who are timid will not meet the contact, they close their eyes and stand there or turn their back. In practice you can protect them through managing the matchups but in games there is no way to do that. Once the other team locates them they start getting lit up. And you have to play them because there are league participation requirements. So you "hide" them. As for just kicking them off the team and refunding the money, I am not comfortable with that, it would feel like giving up on the kid. Some do eventually get it and start getting involved, some even in the last game.
Well, you could have just said the league had participation requirements from the start and what you did would have made a lot more sense. But it seems like your league is sending mixed signals - "competitive leagues" shouldn't have participation requirements. Really, contact football in general probably shouldn't have participation requirements for safety reasons you mentioned.
:dubious: :dubious: :dubious:
These are small towney teams in Kansas. There is no recruiting superstar players for an all star team like AAU basketball. The teams are drawn from the respective communities. It is perfectly appropriate to have participation rules. Those kids put in the work just like everyone else, they should get on the field too.
Post by: Trim on August 22, 2014, 02:11:24 PM
they should get on the field too.
The hidden part of it.
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
The safe part, it is not a perfect system.they should get on the field too.
The hidden part of it.
Post by: sys on August 22, 2014, 03:02:38 PM
1) the stuff michigan said about the adults caring more about winning than the children is complete bullshit. winning is the entire point. without trying to win, it's just exercise. might as well hop on a treadmill. sports are only fun when you try to win. you can still have tons of fun if you don't win, but you can't have hardly any fun if you don't try to win. there is nothing more boring than playing a team sport where score is not kept and/or both teams aren't vigorously attempting to win. i'm not a particularly competitive person, btw, and wasn't a competitive child.
2) the only thing more boring than playing a game where no one cares about winning is sitting on the sideline watching other children play and/or playing, but not being involved in the action. jesus christ, that sucks. eff that crap about the fat kid needs to learn to play on the line because he's good at it and sucks at everything else. he deserves to be a qb or rb or wr just like everyone else.
i don't know what the upshot of that is. maybe (definitely) don't play games where large numbers of children have to be linemen or some other position that sucks. and make more teams and have less subs so that everyone has to play and coaches aren't bitching about having to play the shitty kids and parents aren't bitching about their kid not playing and kids aren't stuck on the sideline watching other kids play. like structurally remove the ways in which children are forced to do crap that sucks and then let them play and compete and have fun trying to win and don't be stupid about it by trying to tell them that it doesn't matter who wins when the entire point of the activity is to attempt to win.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2014, 03:31:38 PM
a couple of points from a former child athlete with no experience or interest in coaching or ever watching a current child athlete.
1) the stuff michigan said about the adults caring more about winning than the children is complete bullshit. winning is the entire point. without trying to win, it's just exercise. might as well hop on a treadmill. sports are only fun when you try to win. you can still have tons of fun if you don't win, but you can't have hardly any fun if you don't try to win. there is nothing more boring than playing a team sport where score is not kept and/or both teams aren't vigorously attempting to win. i'm not a particularly competitive person, btw, and wasn't a competitive child.
Yeah, none of that contradicts what I said about parents caring more about winning than the kids. I agree with what you say for the most part, but I don't think a coach at the youth level should place winning over development. A coach can encourage players to be competitive without worrying about the final score or hiding a player so he never gets to touch the ball. And remember, I explicitly said winning is part of what makes sports fun for kids. But it definitely isn't the only part.
Post by: michigancat on August 22, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
2) the only thing more boring than playing a game where no one cares about winning is sitting on the sideline watching other children play and/or playing, but not being involved in the action. jesus christ, that sucks. eff that crap about the fat kid needs to learn to play on the line because he's good at it and sucks at everything else. he deserves to be a qb or rb or wr just like everyone else.
i don't know what the upshot of that is. maybe (definitely) don't play games where large numbers of children have to be linemen or some other position that sucks. and make more teams and have less subs so that everyone has to play and coaches aren't bitching about having to play the shitty kids and parents aren't bitching about their kid not playing and kids aren't stuck on the sideline watching other kids play. like structurally remove the ways in which children are forced to do crap that sucks and then let them play and compete and have fun trying to win and don't be stupid about it by trying to tell them that it doesn't matter who wins when the entire point of the activity is to attempt to win.
my 7on 7 flag football suggestion was a great solution to this
Post by: slobber on August 22, 2014, 03:45:25 PM
For too many its a ego trip for the adults (coaches and parents). Oh wow your 11 year old son scored three touchdowns? ...ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ME???? I THINK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ME AND HOW AWESOME DOBBERJR IS AT SOCCER!!!!!
I really can't help it that he scores goals and makes awesome crosses and kicks a soccer ball like a stud. I always figured my kids would play football and basketball, like normal kids do.
Gonna win 'em all!
Post by: kslim on August 22, 2014, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: sys on August 22, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
Yeah, none of that contradicts what I said about parents caring more about winning than the kids. I agree with what you say for the most part... And remember, I explicitly said winning is part of what makes sports fun for kids.
well, i only read a very small % of the thread, so it's not surprising i missed that. the 7on7 thing is smart. there's no reason children should have to be blocking.
Post by: Fedor on August 22, 2014, 04:21:38 PM
well this thread is pertinent to me. helping coach for about my 4th year nowYou should have chimed in so I did not have to deal with these goofballs all the time.
Post by: ben ji on August 22, 2014, 04:48:22 PM
Already got it planned out with all my HS football bro's.
-We are all going to have MALE children at the exact same time, preferably twins or 2 in a 3 year period so when one is a senior the other will be a soph.
-Children will grow up having pushup contests and races starting at like age 3.
-3 week camp every summer between 3rd and 8th grade, really get them ready for the upcoming season.
-If things all go as planned they should be able to bring home the state title my bro's and I fell short of!!!!
Post by: CNS on August 22, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on August 22, 2014, 04:56:25 PM
Post by: ben ji on August 22, 2014, 05:55:57 PM
Snake venom in their Gatorade!
I know a guy....
Post by: kslim on August 22, 2014, 06:46:21 PM
well I'm a huge goofballwell this thread is pertinent to me. helping coach for about my 4th year nowYou should have chimed in so I did not have to deal with these goofballs all the time.
Post by: KST8FAN on August 24, 2014, 10:04:57 AM
I was asked to coach my oldest sons 4th grade basketball team after the area director could find no one else. Did it never thinking it was something I would do long term. Needless to say, I got hooked and 15 years later I had coached 11 seasons of basketball (head), 8 seasons of baseball (asst/head), 6 seasons of football (asst/head). Took on a baseball and football team after my sons were out of youth sports because they needed coaches. Nothing more rewarding then seeing kids develop from the 4th-8th grades. The kid who scores 2 points the entire season as a 4th grader to hitting 3 pointers and scoring 20 in his final game as an eighth grader. The scrawny kid who plays center as a 4th grader and matures to become the best combo qb/rb in middle school. Or the shy, tentative kid who didn't want the ball or want to get physical, but finally 'got it' after lots of encouragement and practice. He chose to become a Marine and defend our country out of high school. Finally, retired to enjoy watching my youngest son playing in college now. It did get to be a grind near the end with parents, etc. However, I got far more from coaching than the kids ever got from me I think. Definitely made me a better person.tom what sport is your son playing now
Tom
He is playing football at Highland JuCo. This fall will be his sophomore season. He is qualified academically so he hopes to get recruited and transfer in January to a four year school. He has some D-I/D-II schools interest, but his dream(s) are to either a) play for a team on a coast so he can go to the beach or b) compete to replace BJ Finney at mom and dad's alma mater;)
Highland head/line coach is Aaron Arnold who played two years at Garden City then two years at K-State '01-02. Scotties have been historically bad in the JJC, but posted their best season ever last fall going 6-4. Hoping they can follow that up this fall with similar or better campaign.
Tom
Post by: star seed 7 on August 24, 2014, 10:32:35 AM
Post by: KST8FAN on August 24, 2014, 10:54:23 AM
The total station pizza is better than the Casey's pizza (Highland protip)
:thumbsup: ...and a stop at the Dairy Barn in Wathena for dessert.
Tom
Post by: KST8FAN on August 24, 2014, 03:29:45 PM
how much more or less susceptible (sp?) are little kid brains to this stuff than adult brains?
I know its more, but I don't know how much more.
https://www.impacttest.com/about/
http://guardiancaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/8.11.14_Guardian-Team-Responds-to-ESPN-Outside-The-Lines.pdf
The youth league I was associated with began impact baseline testing the last two years I coached. Concussion awareness and reporting was a huge part of coach certification and training. Also had an ESPN episode of OTL that highlighted the guardian caps which I had not been aware of until that report.
Lots of debate, but agree with others comments that smaller kids do not generate speed and force, but more frequently I saw neck stingers from small kids (65 lbs) lugging a 10 lb helmet around on their head. They were top heavy accidents waiting to happen, and the concussions we encountered were usually the result of falling back and striking the ground with the head versus a head on collision with another player.
I am one who changed my opinion and approach on heavy hitting in practice from the start of coaching (every practice) until I finished (1 practice per week).
Attended a clinic where Tony Severino (Rockhurst High coaching legend in KC metro) discussed his tackling practice philosophy. They form tackled or did fit and run thru drills with live contact only once per week in a four day week (game on Friday). He said any good tackle is one where you get the ball carrier to the ground. Emphasized footwork, body position, wrapping, etc. over the 'big hit' mentality a lot of coaches (including me) have had over time.
Tom
Post by: nicname on August 24, 2014, 03:47:24 PM
Post by: nicname on August 24, 2014, 04:07:26 PM
How do you manage practices? Do you have coaches broken out by position?
There is nothing worse (IMO) than youth teams that just run plays for 80% of their practice, usually coaching 1 or 2 guys while the rest stand around when the play doesn't go "right". Also youth coaches thinking they need to have a playbook that is an inch thick and then when their plays "don't work" one week they change the entire offense for the next week.
There should be long portions of your practice where players are broken out by position just learning techniques (both offense and defense). If you have 3 or 4 coaches this is easy to do. There should be portions of your practice where you teach special teams. There should be very little time when kids are standing around and not learning something about the position(s) they play.
And again, my biggest issue is usually a youth coach gets one kid that is physically superior to everyone else and they think they are the Nick Saban of some 10 year old football league and their ego is fed by trying to catch Bear Bryant's win total instead of really teaching a group of kids how to play the game.
Oh man, so much awesome in this post. Applies to baseball as well. Nothing worse than 9-10 kids standing around the field and taking turns hitting and running with the coach pitching. So brutal. Stations are a must.
Post by: Trim on September 09, 2014, 11:45:40 PM
Post by: KST8FAN on September 10, 2014, 12:32:06 AM
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article2032390.html:sdeek: No words.
Tom
Post by: Cire on September 10, 2014, 06:22:45 AM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on September 10, 2014, 08:36:36 AM
a couple of points from a former child athlete with no experience or interest in coaching or ever watching a current child athlete.
1) the stuff michigan said about the adults caring more about winning than the children is complete bullshit. winning is the entire point. without trying to win, it's just exercise. might as well hop on a treadmill. sports are only fun when you try to win. you can still have tons of fun if you don't win, but you can't have hardly any fun if you don't try to win. there is nothing more boring than playing a team sport where score is not kept and/or both teams aren't vigorously attempting to win. i'm not a particularly competitive person, btw, and wasn't a competitive child.
2) the only thing more boring than playing a game where no one cares about winning is sitting on the sideline watching other children play and/or playing, but not being involved in the action. jesus christ, that sucks. eff that crap about the fat kid needs to learn to play on the line because he's good at it and sucks at everything else. he deserves to be a qb or rb or wr just like everyone else.
i don't know what the upshot of that is. maybe (definitely) don't play games where large numbers of children have to be linemen or some other position that sucks. and make more teams and have less subs so that everyone has to play and coaches aren't bitching about having to play the shitty kids and parents aren't bitching about their kid not playing and kids aren't stuck on the sideline watching other kids play. like structurally remove the ways in which children are forced to do crap that sucks and then let them play and compete and have fun trying to win and don't be stupid about it by trying to tell them that it doesn't matter who wins when the entire point of the activity is to attempt to win.
Interesting article that touches on some of these points:
http://www.kidsportsmagazine.com/PSR/node/3683
Post by: Fedor on September 10, 2014, 09:54:57 PM
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article2032390.htmlIt is not a perfect system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Institutional Control on September 11, 2014, 08:50:17 AM
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Post by: XocolateThundarr on September 11, 2014, 12:01:23 PM
If I coached a team I'd feel like anything more than 4 plays would be excessive. Inside run, outside run, fake handoff + bootleg, PA Pass.
This...until everyone can master those plays. Then maybe add a couple more....COUPLE.
Post by: XocolateThundarr on September 11, 2014, 12:04:39 PM
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article2032390.html
My impression of the City League youth football in Wichita was less than spectacular. I am shocked it took this long for something like this to happen. A lot of awful people are involved with those organizations.
Post by: dmartin on September 12, 2014, 11:28:13 AM
I've been the president of the local youth sports association for the past 3 years.
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
These sound like me coaching my daughter's 3rd/4th grade soccer team. I admit I don't exactly know what I'm doing when it comes to drills, etc. But I've got the good intentions. Trying to give everyone a shot at playing the positions.
At least the parents think i'm doing a good job even when I think practice looks like a clusterfuck.
Post by: michigancat on September 12, 2014, 12:09:38 PM
I've been the president of the local youth sports association for the past 3 years.
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
These sound like me coaching my daughter's 3rd/4th grade soccer team. I admit I don't exactly know what I'm doing when it comes to drills, etc. But I've got the good intentions. Trying to give everyone a shot at playing the positions.
At least the parents think i'm doing a good job even when I think practice looks like a clusterfuck.
I actually started coaching because I hated the coach one of my daughters had. He had a U6 team running suicides I crap you not. But yeah, most clubs (ahem) do a shitty job preparing volunteer coaches, and I'm sure at least half the volunteers would ignore it even if it was presented. (I generally ignore it, but that's because I've been unimpressed and think I have a better way.)
It should be a clusterfuck at that age, so I'm sure you're doing fine. How many kids are on the field?
Also, get this book: http://www.amazon.com/Great-Soccer-Drills-Baffled-Parents/dp/007138488X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410541075&sr=8-1&keywords=soccer+drills
Great resource for "games" that teach skills rather than "drills" and a good look into age-appropriate games that make practice a lot of fun.
Also this site has some great ideas and explanations of philosophy: http://andagain.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=6094
I've found that when you see someone defend their thought process opposed to another, it's much more effective.
Post by: dmartin on September 12, 2014, 01:57:36 PM
I've been the president of the local youth sports association for the past 3 years.
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
These sound like me coaching my daughter's 3rd/4th grade soccer team. I admit I don't exactly know what I'm doing when it comes to drills, etc. But I've got the good intentions. Trying to give everyone a shot at playing the positions.
At least the parents think i'm doing a good job even when I think practice looks like a clusterfuck.
I actually started coaching because I hated the coach one of my daughters had. He had a U6 team running suicides I crap you not. But yeah, most clubs (ahem) do a shitty job preparing volunteer coaches, and I'm sure at least half the volunteers would ignore it even if it was presented. (I generally ignore it, but that's because I've been unimpressed and think I have a better way.)
It should be a clusterfuck at that age, so I'm sure you're doing fine. How many kids are on the field?
Also, get this book: http://www.amazon.com/Great-Soccer-Drills-Baffled-Parents/dp/007138488X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410541075&sr=8-1&keywords=soccer+drills
Great resource for "games" that teach skills rather than "drills" and a good look into age-appropriate games that make practice a lot of fun.
Also this site has some great ideas and explanations of philosophy: http://andagain.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=6094
I've found that when you see someone defend their thought process opposed to another, it's much more effective.
Exact reason I started coaching her team as well. Hated the coach she had for the few seasons prior, and was told by my wife "either you coach, or she doesn't play". I'd helped with my son's team (now in 6th grade) for the last 4 or 5 seasons, so I wasn't completely thrown into it.
There are 16 girls on the team this season. It's hard to keep everyone involved at the same time. What I really need to do is find an assistant (similar to what I was on my son's teams) who can split the load. I just feel bad when half the team is standing around while other half is working on something. I haven't had anyone tell me they'll avoid me in the next seasons, and a few that will actually request me, so yeah, I must be doing at least ok.
and we're 0-0-2 so far this season. so at least we're competitive.
and thanks for the advice.
Post by: michigancat on September 12, 2014, 02:18:42 PM
that book I recommended has a lot of games that can keep them all busy at once. but yeah you definitely need an assistant.
Post by: Asteriskhead on September 12, 2014, 02:27:29 PM
If I coached a team I'd feel like anything more than 4 plays would be excessive. Inside run, outside run, fake handoff + bootleg, PA Pass.
This...until everyone can master those plays. Then maybe add a couple more....COUPLE.
I would argue that the traditional option should be included, those 5-6ish plays were all we ran in pop warner and we were far more successful with them than the teams that tried to run more advanced offenses.
Post by: dmartin on September 12, 2014, 02:29:14 PM
Just got the ebook through google, starting to check it out. I've already read (and realized it's true) that 11 vs 11 is too many kids on the field at this age.
Post by: Asteriskhead on September 12, 2014, 02:29:36 PM
Post by: Bqqkie Pimp on October 11, 2015, 09:15:23 AM
I've been the president of the local youth sports association for the past 3 years.
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Wow... Absolutely nailed it.
This is lil BP jr's first year of tackle football down here in Tejas and I'm not sure it's even possible to fall into a worse situation that what we ended up in.
The team is currently 0-5 with an 0-8 finish far and away the most likely outcome and we actually have the kids to be one of, if not the best, team in the league. It's heartbreaking to see 15 little guys who are thirsty for knowledge getting the absolute worst coaching imaginable while taking weekly 30-0 type beatings.
And it's not just about the wins & losses, but the fact that NOTHING positive is coming out of this experience yet although we are doing all we can to find the silver lining.
:cry:
Post by: dmartin on October 12, 2015, 08:31:37 AM
I've been the president of the local youth sports association for the past 3 years.
Here's a few things I've learned.
Most coaches of youth sports have good intentions.
At least half of youth sports coaches have no idea what they're doing.
Parents who volunteer the least, complain the most.
Most parents think their kid should play quarterback or pitch.
Cheer moms are the worst.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
These sound like me coaching my daughter's 3rd/4th grade soccer team. I admit I don't exactly know what I'm doing when it comes to drills, etc. But I've got the good intentions. Trying to give everyone a shot at playing the positions.
At least the parents think i'm doing a good job even when I think practice looks like a clusterfuck.
I actually started coaching because I hated the coach one of my daughters had. He had a U6 team running suicides I crap you not. But yeah, most clubs (ahem) do a shitty job preparing volunteer coaches, and I'm sure at least half the volunteers would ignore it even if it was presented. (I generally ignore it, but that's because I've been unimpressed and think I have a better way.)
It should be a clusterfuck at that age, so I'm sure you're doing fine. How many kids are on the field?
Also, get this book: http://www.amazon.com/Great-Soccer-Drills-Baffled-Parents/dp/007138488X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410541075&sr=8-1&keywords=soccer+drills
Great resource for "games" that teach skills rather than "drills" and a good look into age-appropriate games that make practice a lot of fun.
Also this site has some great ideas and explanations of philosophy: http://andagain.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=6094
I've found that when you see someone defend their thought process opposed to another, it's much more effective.
Exact reason I started coaching her team as well. Hated the coach she had for the few seasons prior, and was told by my wife "either you coach, or she doesn't play". I'd helped with my son's team (now in 6th grade) for the last 4 or 5 seasons, so I wasn't completely thrown into it.
There are 16 girls on the team this season. It's hard to keep everyone involved at the same time. What I really need to do is find an assistant (similar to what I was on my son's teams) who can split the load. I just feel bad when half the team is standing around while other half is working on something. I haven't had anyone tell me they'll avoid me in the next seasons, and a few that will actually request me, so yeah, I must be doing at least ok.
and we're 0-0-2 so far this season. so at least we're competitive.
and thanks for the advice.
Well this was a trip down memory lane (even if it was only a year ago). The season this was posted, we finished 2-0-5, tied every game except the 2 on the last weekend, which we won both. The next season, I had 100% of my players back as every single parent requested me. It's nice to know that even when I don't think I know what I'm doing, some one thinks I do. That team went 7-0 winning every game by at least 2 goals.
This current season just ended this past weekend. The team I had last year was split into two (half going into the 5/6/7th grade teams) and the other half staying in the 3rd/4th grade teams. At the parents request, I ended up coaching both teams. Had almost 100% return rate (had one forget I was going to coach both teams). Didn't turn out as well as the season before, but everyone seemed happy. We'll see who all comes back next season, and then next year is what I'm really looking forward to when the original team comes back together.
Worse part of coaching youth, is the parents trying to get their kids to do the exact opposite of what you're trying to teach them. Had a few new parents that were very unhappy with how things were going until they realized I was actually trying to teach their kids to stick to their positions. They couldn't figure out why their kid was hanging back and not chasing the ball all around the field like most of the other teams did.
Post by: hatingfrancisco on July 28, 2017, 10:55:59 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
Quote
Hi, This is DAUGHTER'S 3rd season playing IN THIS LEAGUE. This is the first season she has come home in tears after every game. I understand that from what you told the girls the first practice that you do not believe in positions or plays. Both DAUGHTER and DAUGHTER'S FRIEND were discouraged by this. This leaves the girls scrambling, in both offense and defense. These girls are old enough to learn basic positioning and zone defense, some girls just stand there knowing not what to do. I do not want DAUGHTER to quit the season but unless they learn some basic basketball plays and defense as a team , it’s not really worth the time and frustration. Every other team is playing to win. I feel like our girls are being taught 3rd grade level. It’s to the point that we might not play IN THIS LEAGUE again. And to be honest, parents last weekend said to me that they were happy the girls had some structure during the game. I realize this is a volunteer position, I’ve done it too, but it’s alittle frustrating to watch the girls learn nothing on how to play as a team. Pls let me know what you decide. I’d like her to stick to the end of the season but not as it stands now. Best, MOM
I explained my philosophy a bit, suggested she just let her daughter come to practice, have fun, and be a kid, and she did not like it. BTW, she installed a zone defense for the game she coached despite the team playing man-to-man all year, and my daughter was crying after the game because this woman kind of treated her like trash:
Quote
Can my daughter be a kid? Are YOU kidding me? You don't know my child and seem to be more interested in coaching the level your daughter plays and not that of the entire team because if you did, you'd notice the frustration with not only MY DAUGHTER but other players (and their parents) over the lack of direction they are given. Before games, parents have asked me why you do not give them "talks", any strategy or warm up outside like other coaches seem to do. The girls look clueless on the court. Your daughter may have felt a little extra pressure than she is used to when I coached but you should have seen the ear to ear grins on the rest of the girls after they beat an undefeated team with just a few very basic pointers!!! Someone from THIS LEAGUE came up to me after the game and said "those are the games we like to see!"
To DAUGHTER, practice is time to work on fundamentals AND learn how to play as a team. But if they are just supposed to "wing it' every game, I don't see the point. It is very obvious the difference between you and other coaches when you watch the games from the sideline. DAUGHTER expects her coach to correct and give guidance to ALL players during games. She likes to be pushed a little and my expectation is that she learns something from this experience. I mean, we did pay $175 for the season. In the future, you might want to take the pulse of parents and players as I was told a couple of girls were ready to quit last year. Most of these players have competitive experience so there seems to me to be a pattern.
:billdance:
Post by: wetwillie on February 06, 2018, 10:19:57 AM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 06, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
Post by: sys on February 06, 2018, 10:30:38 AM
Post by: ChiComCat on February 06, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
Post by: ChiComCat on February 06, 2018, 10:39:35 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 10:42:50 AM
I assume at that age and where you are, there is no shortage of more competitive options for her daughter. Leagues with mandatory playing requirements aren't where champions are made.Yes, this girl is also on an AAU team and middle school team (that this mom happens to coach). I let her know I thought those are better environments for more serious work.
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 10:43:52 AM
But you should send her a copy of Tex Winter's book and tell her to read up because you're installing the triangle next week and you'll need help.I also plan on yelling at her daughter to tell her where to stand for the entire game.
Post by: 8manpick on February 06, 2018, 10:45:57 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 10:50:08 AM
I say we crowdfund $175 here, send it to her and tell her and her kid to scramWe have one game left plus the tournament. I thought about offering her $20 to quit.
Post by: pissclams on February 06, 2018, 10:56:54 AM
you sign up for criticism from them when you agree to take on the coach job
Post by: Trim on February 06, 2018, 11:05:52 AM
Post by: sys on February 06, 2018, 11:06:52 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 11:33:40 AM
but the mother said all the other children were grinning extra during the game that michigancat missed, so it's not just her daughter.
yeah it's definitely her daughter and her daughter's friend who plays on the same AAU team. I can't gauge how much extra the other girls were grinning, but all the other girls at that game have been coached by me before and think I'm great
Post by: wetwillie on February 06, 2018, 11:34:43 AM
Post by: sys on February 06, 2018, 11:38:06 AM
Post by: DQ12 on February 06, 2018, 12:00:20 PM
rusty = oscar. chew on that.
Post by: OK_Cat on February 06, 2018, 12:00:36 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: The Big Train on February 06, 2018, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: The Big Train on February 06, 2018, 12:19:20 PM
Post by: star seed 7 on February 06, 2018, 12:43:51 PM
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on February 06, 2018, 01:04:33 PM
Post by: Skipper44 on February 06, 2018, 01:17:13 PM
What style does the high school these girls are going to play? I coach my daughter's 6th grade team and last year I ran a 1-3-1 trap and ball screen offense to an undefeated record in a lower league but got smoked in our 3 "seeding" game before christmas against mid level 1st division teams playing the same way.I assume at that age and where you are, there is no shortage of more competitive options for her daughter. Leagues with mandatory playing requirements aren't where champions are made.Yes, this girl is also on an AAU team and middle school team (that this mom happens to coach). I let her know I thought those are better environments for more serious work.
After soul searching all Christmas break I finally did what I should have been doing all along and switch to man to man defense and the pass & cut motion offense that the local High School program plays. We have lost a couple of games to teams we beat last year mainly due to poor defense but in the long run it will greatly benefit the girls that want to play in high school, which my daughter does.
The biggest thing I have learned about myself in coaching is I am not nearly as competitive as I thought I was - I can't believe how many coaches will hardly play some their players in a Rec league. That is the absolute beauty of a position less offense, you don't get caught up in who "has to be in" or if some one doesn't know their role because it is all the same.
Letting 12 year old girls stand around in zone vs a team where maybe 1 or 2 girls on the other team can make a shot from outside 10 feet makes winning easy but that is about it.
Post by: Skipper44 on February 06, 2018, 01:22:07 PM
I'd bench anyone who crys, that's just ridiculousat least 2 of the 3 best players on my 8 year old son's team cry every game. We also get shoving matches about who gets to be the point guard. I am glad to just be an assistant on this team as it can take me 2 or 3 minutes of my best sideline psychology and bribery to get their heads back in the game.
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 01:23:15 PM
They are paying $175 per child and the coaches don't even get paid?
Not only do I not get paid, I have to pay full price for my own kid! Kids ain't cheap
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 06, 2018, 01:25:29 PM
I'd bench anyone who crys, that's just ridiculousat least 2 of the 3 best players on my 8 year old son's team cry every game. We also get shoving matches about who gets to be the point guard. I am glad to just be an assistant on this team as it can take me 2 or 3 minutes of my best sideline psychology and bribery to get their heads back in the game.
You only make the crying worse when you put them back in the game.
Post by: Skipper44 on February 06, 2018, 01:28:11 PM
it's best if they don't come out at all, ADD of these kids and allI'd bench anyone who crys, that's just ridiculousat least 2 of the 3 best players on my 8 year old son's team cry every game. We also get shoving matches about who gets to be the point guard. I am glad to just be an assistant on this team as it can take me 2 or 3 minutes of my best sideline psychology and bribery to get their heads back in the game.
You only make the crying worse when you put them back in the game.
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
What style does the high school these girls are going to play? I coach my daughter's 6th grade team and last year I ran a 1-3-1 trap and ball screen offense to an undefeated record in a lower league but got smoked in our 3 "seeding" game before christmas against mid level 1st division teams playing the same way.I assume at that age and where you are, there is no shortage of more competitive options for her daughter. Leagues with mandatory playing requirements aren't where champions are made.Yes, this girl is also on an AAU team and middle school team (that this mom happens to coach). I let her know I thought those are better environments for more serious work.
After soul searching all Christmas break I finally did what I should have been doing all along and switch to man to man defense and the pass & cut motion offense that the local High School program plays. We have lost a couple of games to teams we beat last year mainly due to poor defense but in the long run it will greatly benefit the girls that want to play in high school, which my daughter does.
The biggest thing I have learned about myself in coaching is I am not nearly as competitive as I thought I was - I can't believe how many coaches will hardly play some their players in a Rec league. That is the absolute beauty of a position less offense, you don't get caught up in who "has to be in" or if some one doesn't know their role because it is all the same.
Letting 12 year old girls stand around in zone vs a team where maybe 1 or 2 girls on the other team can make a shot from outside 10 feet makes winning easy but that is about it.
I don't care what defense the high school plays. Maybe 1 or 2 will eventually play high school? I prefer man because: a) it makes small scrimmages easier in practice. (I only have 9 players and I think 3v3 and 2v2 is far superior for development) and b) because as you said it makes kids move around more and c) gives every player ownership in reasonable matchups
zone is definitely easier to teach and leads to more wins at this level. Man looks baaaaad early in seasons because the girls can't remember who they're guarding but once they achieve that it works pretty well.
If you're interested, I highly recommend these two books:
https://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Basketball-Practice-Modernizing-ebook/dp/B00PJRH6VA/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
https://www.amazon.com/Fake-Fundamentals-Brian-McCormick-ebook/dp/B00SVEJIKA/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
I base most of how I structure practices based on his thoughts on making practices engaging and making sure everything you do in practice translates to a real game situation.
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 01:29:32 PM
Post by: ChiComCat on February 06, 2018, 01:50:33 PM
Also FWIW these girls have never cried during a game
If they ain't crying, they ain't trying. Get it together coach and make those preteens weep.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 06, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
Post by: Skipper44 on February 06, 2018, 02:29:31 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 06, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
1/hr a week for practice and 1 game a week makes teaching them much pretty rough I'd expect
definitely. I do have a full court but I just try to keep them either doing something with a basketball or part of a scrimmage as much as possible.
also most practices I have 7 girls show up, which is just about the worst number you can have. 8 or 9 works pretty well because I can do 2 courts of 2v2 or 3 teams in 3v3 cutthroat
Post by: kso_FAN on February 06, 2018, 03:34:26 PM
Who's having coaching and having fun with parents?!? I'm coaching 5th and 6th grade girls basketball in a t-shirt rec league with mandatory playing requirements and a super wide range of skill levels. We practice 1 hour/week and have 1 game/week. I play every player equally every game and I told parents I would do this before the season started. We're 6-3 and in third place in a 7 team league. I have 5 kids on the team whose parents requested I coach their kids. This is from a parent whose daughter did not attend a practice in the month of January, but helped coach a single game when I couldn't make it:QuoteHi, This is DAUGHTER'S 3rd season playing IN THIS LEAGUE. This is the first season she has come home in tears after every game. I understand that from what you told the girls the first practice that you do not believe in positions or plays. Both DAUGHTER and DAUGHTER'S FRIEND were discouraged by this. This leaves the girls scrambling, in both offense and defense. These girls are old enough to learn basic positioning and zone defense, some girls just stand there knowing not what to do. I do not want DAUGHTER to quit the season but unless they learn some basic basketball plays and defense as a team , it’s not really worth the time and frustration. Every other team is playing to win. I feel like our girls are being taught 3rd grade level. It’s to the point that we might not play IN THIS LEAGUE again. And to be honest, parents last weekend said to me that they were happy the girls had some structure during the game. I realize this is a volunteer position, I’ve done it too, but it’s alittle frustrating to watch the girls learn nothing on how to play as a team. Pls let me know what you decide. I’d like her to stick to the end of the season but not as it stands now. Best, MOM
I explained my philosophy a bit, suggested she just let her daughter come to practice, have fun, and be a kid, and she did not like it. BTW, she installed a zone defense for the game she coached despite the team playing man-to-man all year, and my daughter was crying after the game because this woman kind of treated her like trash:QuoteCan my daughter be a kid? Are YOU kidding me? You don't know my child and seem to be more interested in coaching the level your daughter plays and not that of the entire team because if you did, you'd notice the frustration with not only MY DAUGHTER but other players (and their parents) over the lack of direction they are given. Before games, parents have asked me why you do not give them "talks", any strategy or warm up outside like other coaches seem to do. The girls look clueless on the court. Your daughter may have felt a little extra pressure than she is used to when I coached but you should have seen the ear to ear grins on the rest of the girls after they beat an undefeated team with just a few very basic pointers!!! Someone from THIS LEAGUE came up to me after the game and said "those are the games we like to see!"
To DAUGHTER, practice is time to work on fundamentals AND learn how to play as a team. But if they are just supposed to "wing it' every game, I don't see the point. It is very obvious the difference between you and other coaches when you watch the games from the sideline. DAUGHTER expects her coach to correct and give guidance to ALL players during games. She likes to be pushed a little and my expectation is that she learns something from this experience. I mean, we did pay $175 for the season. In the future, you might want to take the pulse of parents and players as I was told a couple of girls were ready to quit last year. Most of these players have competitive experience so there seems to me to be a pattern.
:billdance:
What in the world?
Post by: _33 on February 06, 2018, 03:36:03 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 06, 2018, 03:39:13 PM
Had my first confrontation with a parent in 4 years after last nights game. I think generally by high school a lot of parents have accepted their kids roles and/or the kids with horrible parents have burned out and don't play anymore. I rarely have any problems.well you can't say that and then not post what was said/done
Post by: meow meow on February 06, 2018, 03:54:29 PM
orrrrrrr...
get a couple italian players and mike ditka to assist you
Post by: michigancat on February 07, 2018, 12:17:31 PM
In hindsight, I thought about forwarding the email to the rest of the parents to be mean, but like I said, I'm a good person.
Post by: The Big Train on February 07, 2018, 12:57:08 PM
Post by: sys on February 07, 2018, 01:01:28 PM
Said I wouldn't address anything else over email but would have a discussion face-to-face over a beer with her and her husband sometime. I don't know why, but I'm definitely the better person.
you may be right about her daughter being a p.o.s. or you may be wrong, but insisting on escalating an email discussion to a face-face confrontation means you most certainly are not a better person.
Post by: Skipper44 on February 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Thanks for those links to Brian McCormick books, I am actually starting with this one he wrote after coaching a 9 year old boys team. I like how he admits passing in elementary school basketball is an iffy proposition at best and prioritized improving ball handling which is the biggest hurdle for most kids to actually enjoy the game imho
https://www.amazon.com/Blitz-Basketball-Strategic-Method-Development-ebook/dp/B01EO6INMM (https://www.amazon.com/Blitz-Basketball-Strategic-Method-Development-ebook/dp/B01EO6INMM)
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 07, 2018, 03:16:47 PM
So lil CF3 is in 2nd grade and playing basketball. He complained to me after the game this week that the other kids don't pass him the ball, and, frankly, he's right. There are 2 kids who are much better than the rest of the team that dominate ball, and only pass to each other. So unless the other kids on the team get a rebound, they don't touch the ball. The thing is its the same in practice. The coach basically just has them scrimmage and lil CF3 and about 3 other kids never touch the ball, outside of loose balls etc.
So I was thinking of suggesting to the coach tonight at practice to run more drills focused on sharing the ball, but also don't want to be THAT GUY. But at the same time, these kids are 7 and I don't think its insane to mandate at least during practice that a different kid takes shots on different possessions.
If you were me, how would you approach things? I'm tempted to just tell my boy to hang in there. There's only a couple weeks left anyway.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 07, 2018, 03:37:11 PM
I'd love some advice.volunteer to be an asst coach for the rest of the year or asst coach next season.
So lil CF3 is in 2nd grade and playing basketball. He complained to me after the game this week that the other kids don't pass him the ball, and, frankly, he's right. There are 2 kids who are much better than the rest of the team that dominate ball, and only pass to each other. So unless the other kids on the team get a rebound, they don't touch the ball. The thing is its the same in practice. The coach basically just has them scrimmage and lil CF3 and about 3 other kids never touch the ball, outside of loose balls etc.
So I was thinking of suggesting to the coach tonight at practice to run more drills focused on sharing the ball, but also don't want to be THAT GUY. But at the same time, these kids are 7 and I don't think its insane to mandate at least during practice that a different kid takes shots on different possessions.
If you were me, how would you approach things? I'm tempted to just tell my boy to hang in there. There's only a couple weeks left anyway.
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 07, 2018, 03:47:32 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 07, 2018, 03:58:45 PM
I'd love some advice.
So lil CF3 is in 2nd grade and playing basketball. He complained to me after the game this week that the other kids don't pass him the ball, and, frankly, he's right. There are 2 kids who are much better than the rest of the team that dominate ball, and only pass to each other. So unless the other kids on the team get a rebound, they don't touch the ball. The thing is its the same in practice. The coach basically just has them scrimmage and lil CF3 and about 3 other kids never touch the ball, outside of loose balls etc.
So I was thinking of suggesting to the coach tonight at practice to run more drills focused on sharing the ball, but also don't want to be THAT GUY. But at the same time, these kids are 7 and I don't think its insane to mandate at least during practice that a different kid takes shots on different possessions.
If you were me, how would you approach things? I'm tempted to just tell my boy to hang in there. There's only a couple weeks left anyway.
second grade boys are going to be terrible at passing no matter what. It's almost too young for basketball IMO. drills to improve passing and sharing the ball could help, but probably not. but yeah like YLA said be a coach yourself next year. go for head coach next year, I could help you come up with some really fun practice plans for 3rd grade boys.
Without knowing anything about how this particular coach runs practice, I can't comment on how best to proceed this season. It's good they're scrimmaging, at least. I'd try to explain to your son that everyone is learning at that age and as everyone improves it will be easier. And coach next year.
Post by: sys on February 07, 2018, 04:00:44 PM
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 07, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
I'd love some advice.
So lil CF3 is in 2nd grade and playing basketball. He complained to me after the game this week that the other kids don't pass him the ball, and, frankly, he's right. There are 2 kids who are much better than the rest of the team that dominate ball, and only pass to each other. So unless the other kids on the team get a rebound, they don't touch the ball. The thing is its the same in practice. The coach basically just has them scrimmage and lil CF3 and about 3 other kids never touch the ball, outside of loose balls etc.
So I was thinking of suggesting to the coach tonight at practice to run more drills focused on sharing the ball, but also don't want to be THAT GUY. But at the same time, these kids are 7 and I don't think its insane to mandate at least during practice that a different kid takes shots on different possessions.
If you were me, how would you approach things? I'm tempted to just tell my boy to hang in there. There's only a couple weeks left anyway.
second grade boys are going to be terrible at passing no matter what. It's almost too young for basketball IMO. drills to improve passing and sharing the ball could help, but probably not. but yeah like YLA said be a coach yourself next year. go for head coach next year, I could help you come up with some really fun practice plans for 3rd grade boys.
Without knowing anything about how this particular coach runs practice, I can't comment on how best to proceed this season. It's good they're scrimmaging, at least. I'd try to explain to your son that everyone is learning at that age and as everyone improves it will be easier. And coach next year.
That's good advice. Thanks.
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 07, 2018, 04:14:26 PM
Post by: Skipper44 on February 07, 2018, 04:15:07 PM
I did volunteer to asst at the first practice and was the coach has never taken me up on it. He's not a bad dude FWIWdoes he ever let the other kids on the team play point and bring the ball up the floor?
Post by: pissclams on February 07, 2018, 04:15:48 PM
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 07, 2018, 04:17:30 PM
I did volunteer to asst at the first practice and was the coach has never taken me up on it. He's not a bad dude FWIWdoes he ever let the other kids on the team play point and bring the ball up the floor?
Na not really.
Post by: michigancat on February 07, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
I've coached baseball and t-ball and soccer as the head coach for my kids, but basketball intimidates me. I never played organized basketball, but maybe I'll give it a go next year. I've learned in the other 2 sports its 50% crowd control with the kids, 30% being organized at practice and the games, and 20% knowledge of the sport.
I've coached basketball the last four years and soccer two years before that and early on I had issues with behavior, but I eventually realized that if I designed a practice that kept everyone moving, those crowd control issues go away. I just assume that if kids are bored/goofing off it's my fault for not having them in an activity that keeps them engaged.
At that age, keeping them busy with lots of dribbling/tag games, layups in different forms (ideally with minimal lines), and lots of small scrimmages will be most fun for the kids, keep them in line, and probably be the best for their development.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 08, 2018, 03:45:45 PM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on February 08, 2018, 06:39:38 PM
go for head coach next year, I could help you come up with some really fun practice plans for third grade boys.
MIcat, this wasn't offered to me, but I would take you up on it if you're willing. I helped with 5-6th grade this year and concluded that I wanted to do 3-4th next year to focus on teaching lay-ups, ball handling, rebounding (at least going after the ball), footwork (pivots and jump stops) and maybe some defensive stance/shuffle.
Are those the things to teach? If not, what should it be? If so, how do you teach those things while keeping their attention?
Post by: michigancat on February 08, 2018, 06:59:33 PM
go for head coach next year, I could help you come up with some really fun practice plans for third grade boys.
MIcat, this wasn't offered to me, but I would take you up on it if you're willing. I helped with 5-6th grade this year and concluded that I wanted to do 3-4th next year to focus on teaching lay-ups, ball handling, rebounding (at least going after the ball), footwork (pivots and jump stops) and maybe some defensive stance/shuffle.
Are those the things to teach? If not, what should it be? If so, how do you teach those things while keeping their attention?
you're on the right track! I'll come up with something later and share it here.
Post by: kso_FAN on February 08, 2018, 07:25:11 PM
The crowd control point is spot on and it even applies to middle or high school. Kids should rarely be standing around at practice.
Post by: Cire on February 08, 2018, 09:39:42 PM
Everyone should always be working on something all the time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: michigancat on February 08, 2018, 11:51:53 PM
go for head coach next year, I could help you come up with some really fun practice plans for third grade boys.
MIcat, this wasn't offered to me, but I would take you up on it if you're willing. I helped with 5-6th grade this year and concluded that I wanted to do 3-4th next year to focus on teaching lay-ups, ball handling, rebounding (at least going after the ball), footwork (pivots and jump stops) and maybe some defensive stance/shuffle.
Are those the things to teach? If not, what should it be? If so, how do you teach those things while keeping their attention?
OK, here you go. With everything, see what works for your team - some will respond to some things but not others. Learn from it and adjust. Don't be afraid to bail on something that doesn't click initially in practice and always have a game or activity in your back pocket to get things back on track. In general, 5-10 minutes is the max you can do one activity/drill before they get bored/tired.
In general, be positive. Let them know turning the ball over or making a bad pass is OK. Just getting a shot up in a game is a win. Give every player freedom to handle the ball and shoot in a game, whether or not they’re successful. Every player should play equally if they have good attitudes. The focus should be on having fun. Expect and embrace chaos. Ask yourself how every activity in practice would translate into a game. If you aren’t sure, don’t bother with it and try to find something that does. So, here's how I'd approach the things you want to work on:
Footwork/pivots/jump stops: I wouldn’t spend much time on this, but probably the first thing I would do at the first practice would be silent red light/green light with a dribble: instead of yelling “red light”, make your back facing them be green light and your front facing them be red light. On red lights, have them do a jump stop and pivot in a circle. This is great way to teach kids who have never played basketball to understand the concept of a pivot foot/travelling and work on jump stops. It forces them to keep their head up while dribbling as well. Once they get it (ideally after 2-3 practices), you probably won’t need to do this again
In general, however, I don’t like a lot of pivoting/triple threat because I want kids to move more quickly. I do this mostly to get the kids to understand the rule.
Lay-ups: I would do my best to split the team into two hoops for most of these, ideally split by ability: any more than 5 at a basket leads to too much standing around. Assuming they’ve never done a layup before, start with a one step, no dribble layup to get used to the initial footwork. If you have a more advanced group, they can start dribbling from the elbow or wing with a dribble. I wouldn’t spend too much time on this
Once they get the initial idea (or even before that) try to incorporate chasing defenders. Here’s one good version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RFDFy3o5rM
vary the cone spacing to give the offense more or less of an advantage depending on the ability of group and what you want to emphasize. Kids can do this! They might not score but it will help them get the feel for the game.
Another version is full court chaser layups - have one player start underneath a basket out of bounds and another is at a good outlet position - about free throw line extended or further up the court. P1 throws the ball to P2, then P2 is offense and P1 is defense. Offense goes to score as quickly as possible, P1 tries to catch up and stop them. (this is also a ball handling drill - it forces them to dribble quickly with the threat of pressure). You can half start at each basket and have two groups go at once. Switch sides and force them to use their off hand, but don't worry about whether or not they score with the proper hand
In general, don’t focus on form IMO. Just let them learn how to beat a defender and score. They will figure out ways that work for them, and give them the freedom to try new ways to score. Like what’s wrong with shooting a right-handed layup off the right foot? Coaches obsess over this and it isn’t necessary IMO.
Ball handling/defensive slides: IMO the best thing for both of these is 1v1 full court. Don’t bother with defensive slides. In 1v1 full court, I have the defense start at the back court free throw line and the offense on the base line. As soon as the offense moves, the defense tries to steal the ball, and if they can’t, make the offense change direction as much as possible. They’ll figure out how to play on the ball defense from this, but also learn how to dribble while being defended and eventually learn to score out of it. You can progress to 1v2 (2 defenders) for more of a challenge on offense and to create 2v1 fast breaks if they create turnovers. There are also more competitive versions where the defender must get a stop or they keep defending (but probably better for older kids). Don’t waste your time with “zig zag” drills or traditional defensive slides.
More ball handling:
I use a game called “Mad trucker” that is basically freeze tag: keep all the players inside the three point line. Everyone has a ball and has to dribble, except fo a “mad trucker”, who is “it”. Once the mad trucker is loose, he/she can either tag the player or tap the ball away (depending on ability) to give the tagged player a “flat tire” who holds the ball above their head. (I usually do tapping the ball away, but tagging leads to faster movement from dribblers). Tagged players can be freed if another player rolls a ball between their legs. This emphasizes dribbling with your head up, dribbling in random directions (like you need to do during a game, and finding/communicating with teammates. I’ve also added two mad truckers to emphasize trapping or increased or decreased the playing space depending on what I wanted to emphasize and how many players you have. This is great for having every player active and improving skills.
Most people know sharks and minnows as a soccer drill but it also works great as a basketball drill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGJGP7-E4uk I’ve still had sixth graders request this drill and I honestly think it would be useful up to high school. Again, you can either have them tag the player to become a shark or have them tap the ball away, depending on ability and the spacing on the court.
I like 1v1 moves and encouraging them to try new things: you’d be amazed at how quickly third graders can learn to dribble behind the back or between their legs. Just have them try and let them know if it’s OK if they aren’t successful initially (and encourage them to attempt them in games). A good way to start with one on one moves is to scatter a ton of cones randomly around the court and have them all make the move you’re introducing from cone to cone for a minute or two. Finish the sequence with a competition to see who can pick up the most cones while dribbling.
Ideally in the same practice, you could do a full-court layup drill with a coach providing token defense at each wing - have them make that move on the coach before going to the basket and scoring. With the full court and kids running down each half of the court, there shouldn't be much standing around.
Follow the leader would also be good for this age - have the coach start randomly changing direction and doing different moves, high dribbles, low dribbles, spins, etc. get silly with it, then let the kids lead. Have the leader finish with a layup on a random goal and go to the next player in line.
Rebounding/getting the ball: This is really something that I wasn’t prepared for: going after the ball is a skill that needs to be taught and practiced. So many kids just stare at loose balls and missed shots. It’s good you’re thinking of it.
My favorite way to work on this is a “numbers game”, (something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT00Y2qRSaU), where you divide the players into two teams and give every player a unique number. Yell two numbers, roll out or bounce the ball, and have the numbers you call go fight for the ball and score. Play until defense gets the ball back. Make it fast, vary the matchups and numbers - you can create 2v1 or 2v2 situations with this as well.
Another way is to use a 3v3 scrimmage where a basket counts as two points but offensive rebounds count as two. You probably need pretty competitive kids to make this version work, but it works great if they do.
Other must-dos:
Small scrimmages: You should do some of this in every single practice. This video does a good job illustrating why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3ukbZhWkcM; tweak the rules depending on what you want to work on; no-dribble scrimmages emphasize moving away from the wall and passing, you can force them to start on a pick and roll, make it a turnover if they aren’t attacking the basket, etc. It’s also a great way to teach man-to-man defense, particularly remembering who you’re guarding, which is a problem for kids this age.
Transition/fast breaks: My favorite is Army Transition: one team of 2 or 3 (offense) is on the backcourt baseline and one team (defense) is on the backcourt free throw line with each player facing the player on offense they are guarding. Coach throws the ball to a player on offense who starts the fast break. The defensive player facing them has to sprint to the baseline before going to play defense - the rest of the defense starts defending immediately.This creates a realistic 2v1 (or 3v2) because an extra defender is coming like they would in a game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2I0N4IalDI
Another I’ve come across to change it up is “skip the middle” (I’m not entirely sure why it’s called this, but whatevs). Start with three players under the backcourt basket. Ball with middle player. He passes it to one of the wings as they start running, wing passes it back to the center, who passes it to the other wing. The wings are now on offense and the center player is on defense in a full court 2v1. Limit the offense to one or two passes and encourage them to score without passing.
So here is a theoretical 1 hour practice, assuming you have 8-10 players
0:00-0:05 - shoot around/hang out
0:05-0:10 - silent red light green light with jump stop and pivot
0:10-0:15 - split into two baskets, basic layups (more advanced players could do it chaser style w/o the chaser)
0:15-0:20 - chaser layups (at two baskets there should be zero standing around)
0:20-0:23 - drink
0:23-0:30 - 1v1 full court (make sure you keep them moving, you can have 2 or 3 pairs going at once)
0:30-0:45 - 3v3 or 2v2 (depending on numbers, you can also do something like 3v3 with 3 teams and having a new team come on at each possession change); split into two courts if the numbers work
0:45-0:52 - Army Transition (this is an opportunity for them to stand around so be careful/keep them moving but generally you can get 2 groups and there's not much standing around)
0:52-1:00 - normal full court scrimmage
At later practices, you can work in things like numbers game, sharks and minnows, mad trucker, etc. Most of these can be tweaked to emphasize weak spots you discover in games. Have fun!
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 09, 2018, 09:37:41 AM
Post by: michigancat on February 09, 2018, 11:50:43 AM
Quote
0:00-0:05 - shoot around/hang out
0:05-0:10 - silent red light green light with jump stop and pivot
0:10-0:15 - split into two baskets, basic layups (more advanced players could do it chaser style w/o the chaser)
0:15-0:20 - chaser layups (at two baskets there should be zero standing around)
0:20-0:23 - drink
0:23-0:30 - 1v1 full court (make sure you keep them moving, you can have 2 or 3 pairs going at once)
0:30-0:45 - 3v3 or 2v2 (depending on numbers, you can also do something like 3v3 with 3 teams and having a new team come on at each possession change); split into two courts if the numbers work
0:45-0:52 - Army Transition (this is an opportunity for them to stand around so be careful/keep them moving but generally you can get 2 groups and there's not much standing around)
0:52-1:00 - normal full court scrimmage
Looking at this, I'd maybe throw in another game like sharks and minnows around the drink depending on the group. But yeah that should be a pretty decent, active practice.
Post by: Daddy Claxton on February 09, 2018, 12:02:50 PM
Do you ever do any strictly ball handling drills? I remember doing a ton of figure-8 dribble and the like as a kid but maybe that's outdated now and you have to have enough basketballs for everyone.
Also how much time if any did you spend at the beginning of the season with basics like rules and terminology? With some of the 5th graders I helped with, when I told them to "play down low" or "get on the block" they clearly had no idea what I meant. Was wondering with the younger ones if they may need even some basic rules explained.
Post by: michigancat on February 09, 2018, 12:40:09 PM
Really great stuff, michigancat. Thanks!
Do you ever do any strictly ball handling drills? I remember doing a ton of figure-8 dribble and the like as a kid but maybe that's outdated now and you have to have enough basketballs for everyone.
Very little. The closest I've done this season is introducing a new one-on-one move and having the players practice making them on cones and then on a coach and then against a live defender. When would you do a figure 8 standing still in a game? Not saying there isn't a place for figure 8's or 2 ball dribbling, but how much of your hour a week is it worth, when you could instead have them beat defenders and keep their heads up against a live defender? I wouldn't spend more than five minutes a practice on what you consider "ball handling drills". (Every player should have a ball for every practice, though).
Also how much time if any did you spend at the beginning of the season with basics like rules and terminology? With some of the 5th graders I helped with, when I told them to "play down low" or "get on the block" they clearly had no idea what I meant. Was wondering with the younger ones if they may need even some basic rules explained.
yeah this is a good point. You probably want to spend some time on court layout in the first practice, explaining the block, elbow, paint, baseline, three point line, etc. Maybe quiz them the next practice until you're sure they've got it. But no more than 2 minutes, because that's some boring crap. My daughter's water polo team had them do homework one time on what the positions were and it seemed to work well without giving up practice time. Not sure if third graders could handle that though.
For things like traveling, double dribble, and fouls (by far the biggest rule issues), just use scrimmages and games to teach that. I don't even spend much time stopping them in practices unless it gets really bad. Let them know refs will miss fouls when they complain to you.
Post by: Daddy Claxton on February 09, 2018, 12:56:45 PM
We tried the homework thing with the 5-6th graders and it failed. As much the coaches fault as anything, though, for not following through.
I really appreciate everything you provided.
Post by: michigancat on February 09, 2018, 01:09:30 PM
Thanks again. All of that is very helpful. Great point on wasting practice time on specific drills that don't translate directly to a game. I think it could be helpful for a short time (5 min as you are said) in the first couple of practices to basically just show them the drills and tell them they can work on it at home. Most won't, but the best players will.
Yeah, there's really nothing wrong with that, I mean every kid will have a ball and be active. I'd encourage them to think about how they would use drills you share to beat defenders. May make them more likely to try it on their own.
And one other thing - if you're ever stuck, have them scrimmage. No matter what you do, you can't go wrong with a scrimmage - every player will benefit.
Post by: Skipper44 on February 09, 2018, 01:55:30 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 09, 2018, 02:16:55 PM
Post by: michigancat on February 09, 2018, 03:30:56 PM
Post by: Skipper44 on February 09, 2018, 04:27:53 PM
basketball, soccer and even football its easier to keep kids moving and engaged way more pud than baseball. baseball is difficult especially if you only have one asst coachI could really use some baseball stuff similar to the basketball stuff itt as the dad's that coached the last few years have moved on leaving the dads like myself that never really played. Luckily it is still machine pitch this summer.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 09, 2018, 04:51:41 PM
Post by: KST8FAN on February 11, 2018, 07:13:24 AM
Mich1/hr a week for practice and 1 game a week makes teaching them much pretty rough I'd expect
definitely. I do have a full court but I just try to keep them either doing something with a basketball or part of a scrimmage as much as possible.
also most practices I have 7 girls show up, which is just about the worst number you can have. 8 or 9 works pretty well because I can do 2 courts of 2v2 or 3 teams in 3v3 cutthroat
Any coaches in the league you can gym share? When the league I coached in cut practice time to once a week we started partnering with other teams. They came to our scheduled practice and we went to theirs.
If you have a full gym then 1 team on each half plus you can scrimmage or run full court drills with both teams competing.
Tom
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Post by: michigancat on February 11, 2018, 10:38:49 AM
Mich1/hr a week for practice and 1 game a week makes teaching them much pretty rough I'd expect
definitely. I do have a full court but I just try to keep them either doing something with a basketball or part of a scrimmage as much as possible.
also most practices I have 7 girls show up, which is just about the worst number you can have. 8 or 9 works pretty well because I can do 2 courts of 2v2 or 3 teams in 3v3 cutthroat
Any coaches in the league you can gym share? When the league I coached in cut practice time to once a week we started partnering with other teams. They came to our scheduled practice and we went to theirs.
If you have a full gym then 1 team on each half plus you can scrimmage or run full court drills with both teams competing.
Tom
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Nah I don't think it would be worth it as we only have two baskets on the full court and no side goals. Also all the kids are so busy here that it's a miracle they show up once a week.
BTW our last regular season game was last night. We played against one of the coaches the girl referenced in the email played for two years ago (one who she likes and is "playing to win"). He always tries to run a high-low offense and I'm guessing he spends a lot of time in practice on it. Before the game he was running a mini-practice setting up baseline out-of-bounds plays. His team didn't score once out of their offense or OOB. We won of course without running a single play but after the game the other coach shakes hands and is like "pretty chaotic, isn't it?" It kind of reminded me that you can practice chaos and games like sharks and minnows and army transition and freeze tag are practicing for chaos.
ALSO, the email Daughter and another player on my team play on the same AAU and middle school team, AND they went to a birthday party together yesterday that was going to make showing up for the game on time tight. Daughter's friend showed up to the game late but Daughter didn't show. She was in the car that dropped off her friend but just didn't want to go to the game AFAIK. I kinda hope she quit.
Post by: IPA4Me on February 11, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on March 07, 2019, 07:41:18 PM
In general, be positive. Let them know turning the ball over or making a bad pass is OK. Just getting a shot up in a game is a win. Give every player freedom to handle the ball and shoot in a game, whether or not they’re successful. Every player should play equally if they have good attitudes. The focus should be on having fun. Expect and embrace chaos. Ask yourself how every activity in practice would translate into a game. If you aren’t sure, don’t bother with it and try to find something that does. So, here's how I'd approach the things you want to work on:
Just wanted to come back and thank Michigancat for all this stuff you provided in this thread. I coached third grade girls and used pretty much everything you suggested. Most importantly, the paragraph above.
I did more straight up drills than you recommended, but none of the players had ever played at all before so there was a lot of just learning motor skills.
I had a blast though; one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. The suggestions were spot on and much appreciated. Thanks again.
Post by: michigancat on March 07, 2019, 07:54:20 PM
In general, be positive. Let them know turning the ball over or making a bad pass is OK. Just getting a shot up in a game is a win. Give every player freedom to handle the ball and shoot in a game, whether or not they’re successful. Every player should play equally if they have good attitudes. The focus should be on having fun. Expect and embrace chaos. Ask yourself how every activity in practice would translate into a game. If you aren’t sure, don’t bother with it and try to find something that does. So, here's how I'd approach the things you want to work on:
Just wanted to come back and thank Michigancat for all this stuff you provided in this thread. I coached third grade girls and used pretty much everything you suggested. Most importantly, the paragraph above.
I did more straight up drills than you recommended, but none of the players had ever played at all before so there was a lot of just learning motor skills.
I had a blast though; one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. The suggestions were spot on and much appreciated. Thanks again.
Awesome, that really makes me happy. My goal every season (what I told the parents) is I just want every player to come back and play next year. So hopefully you're doing it again soon!
Unfortunately I hung it up this year - my daughter decided sports were dumb and all the parents took it too seriously. Of course then in PE they did all kinds of sports just for fun with her friends and she loved it. Go figure.
Post by: Cire on August 22, 2020, 01:37:33 PM
:(
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Post by: Cire on August 22, 2020, 01:39:11 PM
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Post by: wetwillie on August 22, 2020, 05:23:26 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on August 24, 2020, 08:30:30 PM
Post by: Cire on August 24, 2020, 09:54:59 PM
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Post by: Skipper44 on August 25, 2020, 12:55:43 PM
Transfer to Iowa.Great idea! Cire can be the pioneer of travel football in the KC area and I would like to invest in this can't miss biz
Post by: Daddy Claxton on December 17, 2021, 11:09:43 AM
From a few years ago, and a few pages back in this thread (another nod to MichiganCat), I coached my daughter's 3rd grade team and it was great. My daughter has not played since, but I'm now running the boys program (6th, 7th and 8th grades) at my daughter's school!
It's awesome! But I'm still learning how to simplify things.
The kids are great, and no parent issues this year (so far)!
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on December 17, 2021, 11:30:16 AM
Anyone coaching any basketball this year?Thank you for your service. I would be a terrible coach but I've always appreciated the people who volunteer to coach my kids teams.
From a few years ago, and a few pages back in this thread (another nod to MichiganCat), I coached my daughter's 3rd grade team and it was great. My daughter has not played since, but I'm now running the boys program (6th, 7th and 8th grades) at my daughter's school!
It's awesome! But I'm still learning how to simplify things.
The kids are great, and no parent issues this year (so far)!
Post by: steve dave on December 17, 2021, 11:37:29 AM
Post by: steve dave on December 17, 2021, 11:39:26 AM
Post by: steve dave on December 17, 2021, 11:39:55 AM
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on December 17, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on December 17, 2021, 01:15:20 PM
I coach both 10u basketball and 9U baseball. Our basketball team is just rec and comprised of kids that play baseball for our baseball team. Also all of our kids are 7/8 years old but because of a weird cutoff age rule and the fact that our rec has no 9U we play 10U. As such we get absolutely dominated by kids 8 inches taller than us sometimes but also win some games because our kids are good at hustling and not timid. Also we mostly just play knock out at basketball practice because it’s just a hobby sport for us.
My 6th grade team is all non-basketball athletes, and they're great. VERY aggressive! My focus is getting them converted to basketball. I already have one complete convert from lacrosse. His dad told me he had to put up a goal at their house, and the kid does nothing but play basketball now. Well dad, sorry you spent all that money on lacrosse gear, lacrosse club, and lacrosse private lessons, but it gave your kid a really good base for becoming my best basketball player in a couple years.
Post by: KST8FAN on December 17, 2021, 08:26:09 PM
I got asked to coach #1's basketball team in 4ht grade because they couldn't find anyone to do it.
I never imagined being a coach, but I got hooked. That first year I just told myself just get thru this and they'll find someone else. It was stressful as heck too wondering before the first game if we would even score a basket. A funny thing happened. We weren't world beaters, but we weren't terrible either. The parents asked if I was coming back ...
By the time #2 hit high school I had coached 20 seasons worth of baseball, basketball, and football including teams I didn't have sons on.
You will have some 'parent moments' but the kid moments will make those tolerable. Seeing kids develop and grow is a great experience.
Honestly I think it made me a better dad.
Tom
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Post by: steve dave on December 17, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
Post by: Daddy Claxton on January 21, 2022, 12:47:05 PM
Post by: michigancat on January 21, 2022, 12:53:14 PM
Has anyone used an good phone app for communicating with the team/parents? We’ve been using email and I can barely manage my inbox.
teamsnap is pretty decent
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 21, 2022, 01:07:44 PM
Post by: steve dave on January 21, 2022, 01:30:32 PM
Lil SF had a big baseball tryout this week. His two buds got the welcome text right after the tryout and we didn't. :ohno: It was a brutal 2 days before we got the text that said he made the team. Poor little guy would have been devastated that his 2 buds made it and he didn't. He is just as good or better so he had no idea why he didn't find out when they did. I had pretty much written it off, but he just kept asking me "dad did I make the team yet". Stud knew the whole time, but dad was preparing for the worst. Kids are cool like that I guess. I also never want to do that again and didn't figure I would have to at 9 years old. :sdeek:Oh man, I’ve been there and it is so nerve wracking for dads (not kids). Personal rejection and defeat is like no big whoop for us dads but the thought of it is so scary when we think about it for our kids. But, like you said, I think they handle it mostly like we handle our own so maybe we should chill? Easier said than done for sure.
Congrats to lil SF!
Post by: steve dave on January 21, 2022, 01:34:34 PM
Has anyone used an good phone app for communicating with the team/parents? We’ve been using email and I can barely manage my inbox.
I will rank in order from good to diarrhea:
1. SportsEngine (by NBC apparently because their logo is on it?)
2. TeamSnap
3. Playerspace
4. Playmetrics (maximum diarrhea based mostly off the spam it spams me all the damn time)
I really like SportsEngine but I think the key for all of them is the consistent and thorough use by the coach. Communicating through the app consistently, updating schedules, parents being active in both the chat and the RSVPs.
Also bonus points for RainoutLine app which we use for a couple sports and it blasts rainouts to all participants and you can set alerts for whatever level/sport your kid is in.
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 21, 2022, 01:37:48 PM
Lil SF had a big baseball tryout this week. His two buds got the welcome text right after the tryout and we didn't. :ohno: It was a brutal 2 days before we got the text that said he made the team. Poor little guy would have been devastated that his 2 buds made it and he didn't. He is just as good or better so he had no idea why he didn't find out when they did. I had pretty much written it off, but he just kept asking me "dad did I make the team yet". Stud knew the whole time, but dad was preparing for the worst. Kids are cool like that I guess. I also never want to do that again and didn't figure I would have to at 9 years old. :sdeek:Oh man, I’ve been there and it is so nerve wracking for dads (not kids). Personal rejection and defeat is like no big whoop for us dads but the thought of it is so scary when we think about it for our kids. But, like you said, I think they handle it mostly like we handle our own so maybe we should chill? Easier said than done for sure.
Congrats to lil SF!
Thanks. He's pumped. It was supposed to be a "show up and you are fine deal", but ended up being way more than we expected. There were like 25 kids there, stop watches, stations, etc. We weren't prepared at all. He did OK, but I think he prob mostly made it because his old coach was there and prob vouched for him. Wouldn't have been that big a deal, but his 2 buds made it. The worst part would have been finding another team to play on. Our area has very little baseball and he has like 2 friends left still playing even at just 9. We would have had to join a random team and that is very hit and miss. People say all the time that kids aren't playing baseball that much anymore and it seems true at least in our area.