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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: slimz on March 24, 2010, 12:25:14 PM
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[If you're reading this thread intending to whine about Petro, please go here (http://www.gopowercat.com).]
Petro revisited his Big 12 coach ratings today. IIRC, they were:
1. Self
2. Barnes
3. Jeff Capel
4. Mike Anderson
5. Frank Martin (up from 7th earlier this year)
6. Mark Turgeon
7. Scott Drew
8. Travis Ford
9. Jeff Bz
10-12 McDermott, Doc, Pat Knight
Said that if Frank wins tomorrow, he probably rises to 3rd. Drew can also move up by winning.
Said that the rankings are based on a combination of previous accomplishments and outlook for the future. According to these standards, the rankings seem pretty solid. Anderson does have the Big 12 tourney trophy and the E8 last year, as well as some tourney success at UAB, so I think it's fair to keep him above Frank until Frank reaches the E8, although I think Frank's got a better outlook for the future, so it might be better to have those guys as tied right now.
I would probably rank Mike and Frank 3rd right now, with Capel down by Ford. Sure, Capel reached the E8 last year, but his program currently seems to disintegrating. If looking to the future is part of the rankings, OU's future for the next couple of years, at least, looks pretty cloudy.
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Self #1? :lol:
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Barnes not in the bottom half? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Other than that, I'm ok with this list.
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Sounds like Capel is losing Mason-Griffin, Warren, and Gallon next year in addition to Crocker graduating.
Eeesh. Bummer Sooner
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LOL at #1,2,3,4,5,7. Petro is a total booger-eating Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). Though I would like to know where he would rank oscar Weber on this list.
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Sounds like Capel is losing Mason-Griffin, Warren, and Gallon next year in addition to Crocker graduating.
Eeesh. Bummer Sooner
Where is TMG going???
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Sounds like Capel is losing Mason-Griffin, Warren, and Gallon next year in addition to Crocker graduating.
Eeesh. Bummer Sooner
Where is TMG going???
pro
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Capel has to be the worst. Can't recall a coach having his entire program disintegrate like this and still keep his job...
Well, maybe Wooldridge.
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Doc has to be ATLEAST top 3
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Barnes not in the bottom half? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Other than that, I'm ok with this list.
Barnes has been to a final four and an elite eight. No one else besides Self has. That's why hes there. Also has won conference championships.
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Hmm, based on accomplishments alone, that's a decent list, but future outlook (measured in part by likelihood of being fired) should look something like this:
1. Frank
2. Self
3. Anderson
4. Drew
5. Barnes
6. Turgeon
7. Ford
8. Bzzz
9. Knight
10. Doc
11. Capel
12. McNeck
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This run is great, but I don't think any more of Frank as a coach if he wins tomorrow, and wouldn't have thought any less of him if he lost to BYU. It just annoys me that someone would think he's magically better than 2 coaches because of one game.
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This run is great, but I don't think any more of Frank as a coach if he wins tomorrow, and wouldn't have thought any less of him if he lost to BYU. It just annoys me that someone would think he's magically better than 2 coaches because of one game.
this. frank doens't have a long enough track record or accomplished enough for people to be outraged at Petro's list.
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This run is great, but I don't think any more of Frank as a coach if he wins tomorrow, and wouldn't have thought any less of him if he lost to BYU. It just annoys me that someone would think he's magically better than 2 coaches because of one game.
Yeah. If I were ranking coaches from scratch, I would pretty much rely on chances of future success...which in and of itself depends somewhat on what they've accomplished in the past. In that context, the result tomorrow doesn't matter much. A run to the Final Four would add a bit.
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LOL at Capel being third. 32-32 in conference with two seasons of no post-season play at a school that had been to either the NCAA or NIT in each of the 23 years prior to his arrival.
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i d0n't think he sh0uld include past acc0mplishments 0utside 0f the b12 actually.
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Average big 12 finish?
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LOL at Capel being third. 32-32 in conference with two seasons of no post-season play at a school that had been to either the NCAA or NIT in each of the 23 years prior to his arrival.
This. Capel is too high. Only real complaint.
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This run is great, but I don't think any more of Frank as a coach if he wins tomorrow, and wouldn't have thought any less of him if he lost to BYU. It just annoys me that someone would think he's magically better than 2 coaches because of one game.
Agreed. It's purely idoitic to rank a coach based on one game. Capel is a better coach than Frank, but if we beat Xavier, Frank is a better coach than Capel. :confused:
What sucks is that this ruhtarded logic is coming from Petro, who I think is the best in the biz in KC talk radio. I could see this asshattery coming from Kietz, but Petro? wtF?
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At least Frank is being paid like a middle of the pack Big XII coach now. He's no longer in Doc and McNeck's world.
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Few things:
- The original rankings were as of January 2010.
- He's basing his rankings by what they've done and what he thinks they'll do. Therefore, he gives weight to Capel as a recruiter because, on his own, he got multiple McD AA's over his tenure, but also admitted that this year's on the court results for Capel has him questioning his ranking.
- The rankings are fluid.
Lastly, who gives a sh*t. We're all happy with Frank, but realize that he needs to keep recruiting (the '10 and '11 classes are underwhelming, imo).
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I WONDER IF PATROS HAND IS STINGING FROM THIS GIANT SLAP IN THE FACE HE HAS JUST DELIVERED TO OUR OWN FRANCIS MARTIN.
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This run is great, but I don't think any more of Frank as a coach if he wins tomorrow, and wouldn't have thought any less of him if he lost to BYU. It just annoys me that someone would think he's magically better than 2 coaches because of one game.
Petro has been touting tomorrow as a "must win" for Frank all week. It's a hilariously stupid talking point, but he's riding that pony to its grave.
According to him, if we lose to Xavier, this season will be a disappointment and Frank "really didn't do that great of a coaching job"; if we win, the season is already an overachievement and success regardless of how far we go after that.
Like I said: hilariously stupid.
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I know one person who is happy about this; Kevin Kietzman. After weeks of absorbing the wrath of GPC, Petro today has taken over the mantle.
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I don't recall petro giving us much love if any ever (to include FB). Dude is a Syracuse-loving, Bill Self fellacio-giving jackass... Hey Soren, nice list - remind me again which coach got Big 12 COY again? Considering this was as of Jan, I wonder if the #1 changed at all after uk bowing out early...
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Self #1? :lol:
The guy won the Big 12 and went to the Sweet Sixteen in a rebuilding year.
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I don't recall petro giving us much love if any ever (to include FB). Dude is a Syracuse-loving, Bill Self fellacio-giving jackass... Hey Soren, nice list - remind me again which coach got Big 12 COY again? Considering this was as of Jan, I wonder if the #1 changed at all after uk bowing out early...
What was Frank's record against Self this year?
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Self #1? :lol:
The guy won the Big 12 and went to the Sweet Sixteen in a rebuilding year.
And has underaccomplished BY FAR in 3 tournaments (most awesomely, this year). Everyone says he's a great coach because of recruiting. KU's history is what recruits for them. Also, bring porn stars to games. Also, being on TV every game, even when they play crap teams in the beginning of the season. Choking. That's all Self has done in the postseason, which is the only thing that matters in college basketball. Big XII titles are great, and I will love it when we win one, the tournament is where things are accomplished.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
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Yeah, but every talking point I've heard for why he was a good/great coach is because of his recruiting. Jeez, Doc is a better X's and O's coach than that Self character.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
Mangino won a national title?
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Yeah, but every talking point I've heard for why he was a good/great coach is because of his recruiting. Jeez, Doc is a better X's and O's coach than that Self character.
Roy had seven McDonald's All-Americans and went to the NIT this year. The last time Roy/Self met in the tournament, Self's team won by 18 points.
PS. What was Frank Martin's record against KU this year?
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Great talking point about KU beating K-State this year. We haven't heard it enough. Got any original material? No? Care to respond to the fact that the tournament going on right now determines who is the best team this year? No? Your jedi skills are great, but they get old.
And yeah, KU has better talent that K-State. No one tried to recruit Pullen, amongst other players we have. Everyone and their mom tried to recruit all of KU's players. Why don't we switch players, have Martin coach yours, Self coach ours, and see who wins?
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BMW, its clear you've got several good talking points here. Even Frank said we've got to beat you guys before we talk too much.
But you cannot deny that...
a) Self has had 3 terrible tournaments in his 7 years at KU. This does not take away the NC, etc, but its really inexcusable to have the talent he's had and not make it out of the 1st weekend 3 times. Seriously.
b) K-State is still playing and KU is not. So forgive us for enjoying it, its been 29 years since any of us have seen this happen, and frankly most of us don't even remember K-State basketball in 1981.
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Self has a national rep for recruiting and choking. And not getting guys to succeed in the league.
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Great talking point about KU beating K-State this year. We haven't heard it enough. Got any original material? No? Care to respond to the fact that the tournament going on right now determines who is the best team this year? No? Your jedi skills are great, but they get old.
And yeah, KU has better talent that K-State. No one tried to recruit Pullen, amongst other players we have. Everyone and their mom tried to recruit all of KU's players. Why don't we switch players, have Martin coach yours, Self coach ours, and see who wins?
I have K-State in my Final Four. You guys have a great team this year. KU choked again, but the facts are facts. I'm not trying to make excuses, I just don't think losing to Northern Iowa makes Bill Self a bad coach.
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BMW, its clear you've got several good talking points here. Even Frank said we've got to beat you guys before we talk too much.
But you cannot deny that...
a) Self has had 3 terrible tournaments in his 7 years at KU. This does not take away the NC, etc, but its really inexcusable to have the talent he's had and not make it out of the 1st weekend 3 times. Seriously.
b) K-State is still playing and KU is not. So forgive us for enjoying it, its been 29 years since any of us have seen this happen, and frankly most of us don't even remember K-State basketball in 1981.
I'm not trying to postpone your guys' enjoyment. I just don't think Bill Self should be raked over the coals for losing to Northern Iowa. KU had plenty of opportunities to win that game, but the players on the court didn't execute. Sherron Collins and Tyshawn Taylor were a combined 0-11 from 3-point range. Let's just be honest... KU played like sh*t and choked once again in the tournament. That doesn't take away from what the team accomplished in the regular season or what Bill Self has accomplished at KU. These type of things happen when winning the Big 12 and going to the NCAA tournament as a 3-seed are considered rebuilding years.
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BMW, its clear you've got several good talking points here. Even Frank said we've got to beat you guys before we talk too much.
But you cannot deny that...
a) Self has had 3 terrible tournaments in his 7 years at KU. This does not take away the NC, etc, but its really inexcusable to have the talent he's had and not make it out of the 1st weekend 3 times. Seriously.
b) K-State is still playing and KU is not. So forgive us for enjoying it, its been 29 years since any of us have seen this happen, and frankly most of us don't even remember K-State basketball in 1981.
I'm not trying to postpone your guys' enjoyment. I just don't think Bill Self should be raked over the coals for losing to Northern Iowa. KU had plenty of opportunities to win that game, but the players on the court didn't execute. Sherron Collins and Tyshawn Taylor were a combined 0-11 from 3-point range. Let's just be honest... KU played like sh*t and choked once again in the tournament. That doesn't take away from what the team accomplished in the regular season or what Bill Self has accomplished at KU. These type of things happen when winning the Big 12 and going to the NCAA tournament as a 3-seed are considered rebuilding years.
What you fail to realize us that what you did during the season is irrellevant after the field of 64 is set. So who gives a flying fck who you beat 3 times during the regular season. All that really counts (and you know this more than anyone) is what happens in the tourney and Bill Self having 3 horrible showings in 7 is ridiculous considering his talent level. You go ahead and spin that any way you want... oh, BTW - does anyone know what referee crew called the uk/NIU game? I will bet a tidy sum of $$ that it wasn't a Big 12 crew.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
killshot.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
killshot.
And then Ben goes for the deflection by saying this:
Mangino won a national title?
Truth be told that no one can argue that Self can recruit. But I think it's fairly obvious by now that he can't motivate.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
killshot.
pretty much.
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He has taken KU to a Sweet Sixteen, two Elite Eights, and a National Title. The guy won the National Coach of the Year last season.
So did Mangino.
Mangino won a national title?
You all pretended he did.
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^^^ this is the stomp on the nuts while Ben is diwn^^^
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1. Self
2. Frank
3. Turjon
4. Anderson
5. Happy
6. TFord
7-12 Nor/So-tards
Is there some distinction b/w game coach and recruiter? Petro's list is entirely based on recruiting.
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One thing that strikes me is that there are really a lot of great coaches in this league, and all of them could be at their current jobs for a long time. This is shaping up for a longstanding run similar to those in the 70's and 80's era big 8.