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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 04:00:43 PM

Title: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 04:00:43 PM
Nothing like some good "buy in or quit" basketball from Frank. Play 12 players in the first half. Several returners spend significant time in the doghouse (Irving, Samuels) and one never gets our (JO). Play most of the game with no rhythm, emotion, etc. Frank spends plenty of time frowning, yelling, sarcastic clapping, and generally doesn't look like he's having a good time. Let a bad team hang around; by far this was the most impressive by letting this thing get to overtime. Just classic Frank and classic BIOQBB.

The numbers:
Total   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   82   0.97   40.3%   22.0%   54.3%   41.7%
Opp   82   0.83   46.1%   25.7%   35.3%   23.4%

Amazingly bad shooting performance. OR% was wonderful though.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 04:08:13 PM
Oh man, capped it off by being a no show for the postgame.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Tobias on December 11, 2011, 04:09:33 PM
Oh man, capped it off by being a no show for the postgame.

 :horrorsurprise:
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: ednksu on December 11, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
i remember when Huggs did the too school for cool post game skip
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kougar24 on December 11, 2011, 04:18:33 PM
i remember when Huggs did the too school for cool post game skip

Frank has done it before.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 11, 2011, 04:29:20 PM
this is so boring.  jfc, frank.  learn how to coach/recruit without having to do this every...single...year.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 04:32:05 PM
this is so boring.  jfc, frank.  learn how to coach/recruit without having to do this every...single...year.

Kellis Robinett @KellisRobinett 15 mins
Frank Martin: "The hardest thing on this team to coach right now is immaturity and selfishness."

Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 11, 2011, 04:38:54 PM
this is so boring.  jfc, frank.  learn how to coach/recruit without having to do this every...single...year.

Kellis Robinett @KellisRobinett 15 mins
Frank Martin: "The hardest thing on this team to coach right now is immaturity and selfishness."

the immaturity is all on frank.  don't run players off and sub in just as crappy players in their place.  And who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: wetwillie on December 11, 2011, 04:46:08 PM
Love frank.  His franking early in the season makes him more loveable.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 04:47:24 PM
Official advanced stats by half/OT and totals.

1st half   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   32   1.00   40.0%   28.3%   61.9%   11.4%
Opp   32   0.78   30.6%   31.4%   52.2%   25.8%

2nd half   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   35   0.80   36.7%   28.5%   40.9%   46.7%
Opp   35   1.00   65.4%   28.5%   25.0%   11.5%

OTs   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   9   2.16   57.1%   0.0%   100.0%   171.4%
Opp   9   0.91   42.9%   11.4%   0.0%   57.1%

Total   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   78   1.02   40.3%   24.5%   54.3%   41.7%
Opp   78   0.88   46.1%   27.0%   37.5%   23.4%

The OT advanced stats are hilarious.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sysdax on December 11, 2011, 04:48:41 PM
this is so boring.  jfc, frank.  learn how to coach/recruit without having to do this every...single...year.

Kellis Robinett @KellisRobinett 15 mins
Frank Martin: "The hardest thing on this team to coach right now is immaturity and selfishness."

the immaturity is all on frank.  don't run players off and sub in just as crappy players in their place.  And who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 

I could not have said this any better.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kim carnes on December 11, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
Love frank.  His franking early in the season makes him more loveable.

meh
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 11, 2011, 05:02:32 PM
DITR does not translate in basketball like it does football.

He can try all the head games he wants, but when you don't have any significant talent, it just won't matter.

Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sys on December 11, 2011, 05:11:02 PM
i'm pretty sure he doesn't mean "shoots too much" when he says selfish.  i'm not sure exactly what he means, but i'm pretty sure it isn't that.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
i'm pretty sure he doesn't mean "shoots too much" when he says selfish.  i'm not sure exactly what he means, but i'm pretty sure it isn't that.

Yeah, I don't think so either.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 11, 2011, 05:31:14 PM
i'm pretty sure he doesn't mean "shoots too much" when he says selfish.  i'm not sure exactly what he means, but i'm pretty sure it isn't that.

it probably has to do with defense.  If he's talking about being selfish defensively, I would guess it's more about being lazy.  But again, that's on him. 
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kougar24 on December 11, 2011, 05:36:40 PM
i'm pretty sure he doesn't mean "shoots too much" when he says selfish.  i'm not sure exactly what he means, but i'm pretty sure it isn't that.

My money is on lapses on help-side D.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 05:44:14 PM
Also moving without the ball on offense. One of his big coaching points during the game was yelling "MOVE" loudly at no one in particular.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kim carnes on December 11, 2011, 05:53:44 PM
Also moving without the ball on offense. One of his big coaching points during the game was yelling "MOVE" loudly at no one in particular.

Isn't that what he does every game?
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 11, 2011, 05:57:23 PM
Also moving without the ball on offense. One of his big coaching points during the game was yelling "MOVE" loudly at no one in particular.

Isn't that what he does every game?

the new super duper offense that Unds implemented last year was supposed to help them move more......of course it helped to have the all time leading scorer there to run it so he could take the ball and do something with it when the shot clock winded down.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: yosh on December 11, 2011, 06:01:37 PM
Also moving without the ball on offense. One of his big coaching points during the game was yelling "MOVE" loudly at no one in particular.

Yeah it's this.  When he talks about "selfish basketball' he's talking about not making good hard cuts, picks, ect. off the ball.  Agree with 'zacker that Frank should STFU about the trials of having a young team.  It's getting tired.  His first two years it was justifiable, ever since it's been entirely his fault.  That said, I really am not bothered by these BIOQ games, because he seems to always find a way to win them and the team gets better.

two more thoughts:

1.  If McGruder and ART could start making shots, this team goes from mediocre to very good.
2.  They missed Southwell today.  
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sys on December 11, 2011, 06:17:30 PM
2.  They missed Southwell today.  

the straw that stirs the drink.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: mcmwcat on December 11, 2011, 06:17:55 PM
shane southwell's diversity provides depth at many positions.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: mcmwcat on December 11, 2011, 06:18:19 PM
the straw thingy too.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: bradleigh on December 11, 2011, 07:15:27 PM
I went to the missouri state game vs. OSU and was reminded of what it looks like when a coach accepts mediocrity.  My fellow EMAWers were laughing at what players on the Bears were getting away with while receiving non-sarcastic praise from their coach.  Paul Lusk was very happy satisfied with the outcome that they got against the Cowboys.

It makes me uncomfortable to watch Frank at times, but I sure do like the result.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: ksu101 on December 11, 2011, 07:25:13 PM
JFC  :facepalm:. We are fine.  This is just our buy in or quit moment we are going through. 
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 11, 2011, 07:29:15 PM
Yeah, Southwell does nice things. His positives overshadow his negatives.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: CNS on December 11, 2011, 07:53:56 PM
i'm pretty sure he doesn't mean "shoots too much" when he says selfish.  i'm not sure exactly what he means, but i'm pretty sure it isn't that.

Yeah, I don't think so either.

Was thinking this too about "selfish".  I mean, I wish we had a guy that was too selfish when it came to shooting.  Preferably one who chucks threes.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Panjandrum on December 11, 2011, 09:53:53 PM
Yeah, Southwell does nice things. His positives overshadow his negatives.

As a poster on our site says, it's the "Shane Southwell Paradox".

His stat line rarely wows you, but you really feel it when he's not there.

Hence why I get a little agitated by the Southwell hate.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Panjandrum on December 11, 2011, 09:56:28 PM
this is so boring.  jfc, frank.  learn how to coach/recruit without having to do this every...single...year.

Kellis Robinett @KellisRobinett 15 mins
Frank Martin: "The hardest thing on this team to coach right now is immaturity and selfishness."

the immaturity is all on frank.  don't run players off and sub in just as crappy players in their place.  And who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 

Yeah, running guys off gets old.  It sucks seeing the team go through growing pains every single year.

But, on the flip side, we finish in the top four every year, and we make the NCAA tournament 75% of the time.

I mean, you like the sausage, but you don't really like watching how it's made, ya know?
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kougar24 on December 11, 2011, 10:14:18 PM
I mean, you like the sausage, but you don't really like watching how it's made, ya know?

That is a fantastic analogy.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 12, 2011, 07:30:25 AM
Does/did anyone really think Frank will/would ever change?
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: pissclams on December 12, 2011, 10:15:13 AM
Yeah, Southwell does nice things. His positives overshadow his negatives.

As a poster on our site says, it's the "Shane Southwell Paradox".

His stat line rarely wows you, but you really feel it when he's not there.

Hence why I get a little agitated by the Southwell hate.

is it Sean T that says that?
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 12, 2011, 10:19:39 AM
I think its safe to say Shane plays the game the Wright way.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Kat Kid on December 12, 2011, 11:08:42 AM
I think its safe to say Shane plays the game the Wright way.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: slimz on December 12, 2011, 11:17:31 AM
I think its safe to say Shane plays the game the Wright way.

At least Southwell doesn't dribble with his elbows and knees, the way Wright did.

I will admit that my negativity toward Southwell after WVU may have been unduly influenced by a couple of absolutely horrid possessions in which he either just fumbled the ball to WVU or else stood/dribbled around with the ball without much of a purpose down the stretch when we needed buckets. Overall, he does make some nice passes, he generally plays good defense, and I think he may actually need to try more 3-pointers.

It would be nice if he stopped giving the ball to the other team 1 out of every 4 times he touches it.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 12, 2011, 11:57:54 AM
Yeah, Southwell does nice things. His positives overshadow his negatives.

As a poster on our site says, it's the "Shane Southwell Paradox".

His stat line rarely wows you, but you really feel it when he's not there.

Hence why I get a little agitated by the Southwell hate.

is it Sean T that says that?

lol
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kso_FAN on December 12, 2011, 12:04:41 PM
I think its safe to say Shane plays the game the Wright way.

At least Southwell doesn't dribble with his elbows and knees, the way Wright did.

I will admit that my negativity toward Southwell after WVU may have been unduly influenced by a couple of absolutely horrid possessions in which he either just fumbled the ball to WVU or else stood/dribbled around with the ball without much of a purpose down the stretch when we needed buckets. Overall, he does make some nice passes, he generally plays good defense, and I think he may actually need to try more 3-pointers.

It would be nice if he stopped giving the ball to the other team 1 out of every 4 times he touches it.

True, but the glue guys of the Huggs/Martin era have always had variously skilled, but incomplete games. Still, a Wright, or Sutton, or McGruder, or now Shane are needed.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: kougar24 on December 12, 2011, 12:39:59 PM
I think its safe to say Shane plays the game the Wright way.

Good lord, we've got some wordsmiths up in here. :clap:
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Panjandrum on December 12, 2011, 03:13:20 PM
Yeah, Southwell does nice things. His positives overshadow his negatives.

As a poster on our site says, it's the "Shane Southwell Paradox".

His stat line rarely wows you, but you really feel it when he's not there.

Hence why I get a little agitated by the Southwell hate.

is it Sean T that says that?

Either him or the BigE guy.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 12, 2011, 03:50:26 PM
Does/did anyone really think Frank will/would ever change?

I thought his recruiting would be better.  There is two sides to this.  I mean, I recognize that he pulled our current all time leading scorer.  And got transfers like CK and Denis.  But he’s also had Buchi Awaji, Abdul Herrera, Fred Brown, Ron Anderson, Andre Gilbert, Nick Russell, Juevol Myles, Devon Petterson, Freddy Asprilla and couldn’t reach/coach/get along with Wally Judge and Dominique Sutton…I mean, if memory serves me correctly, there hasn’t been one juco make it to graduation under frank martin. 
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Dugout DickStone on December 12, 2011, 04:07:43 PM
Does/did anyone really think Frank will/would ever change?

I thought his recruiting would be better.  There is two sides to this.  I mean, I recognize that he pulled our current all time leading scorer.  And got transfers like CK and Denis.  But he’s also had Buchi Awaji, Abdul Herrera, Fred Brown, Ron Anderson, Andre Gilbert, Nick Russell, Juevol Myles, Devon Petterson, Freddy Asprilla and couldn’t reach/coach/get along with Wally Judge and Dominique Sutton…I mean, if memory serves me correctly, there hasn’t been one juco make it to graduation under frank martin. 

I think Nick was the only loss there....
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on December 12, 2011, 04:11:33 PM
Does/did anyone really think Frank will/would ever change?

I thought his recruiting would be better.  There is two sides to this.  I mean, I recognize that he pulled our current all time leading scorer.  And got transfers like CK and Denis.  But he’s also had Buchi Awaji, Abdul Herrera, Fred Brown, Ron Anderson, Andre Gilbert, Nick Russell, Juevol Myles, Devon Petterson, Freddy Asprilla and couldn’t reach/coach/get along with Wally Judge and Dominique Sutton…I mean, if memory serves me correctly, there hasn’t been one juco make it to graduation under frank martin.  

I think Nick was the only loss there....

that isn't the point.  from an evaluation/recruiting strategy/roster management standpoint, it's awful.  just awful.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sys on December 12, 2011, 04:11:51 PM
I mean, if memory serves me correctly, there hasn’t been one juco make it to graduation under frank martin. 

i think herrera might have stayed at kstate and graduated.  not sure it ended up happening, but i think that was the plan when he left the team.  hopefully watson will make it too.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Skipper44 on December 12, 2011, 04:53:17 PM
Does/did anyone really think Frank will/would ever change?

I thought his recruiting would be better.  There is two sides to this.  I mean, I recognize that he pulled our current all time leading scorer.  And got transfers like CK and Denis.  But he’s also had Buchi Awaji, Abdul Herrera, Fred Brown, Ron Anderson, Andre Gilbert, Nick Russell, Juevol Myles, Devon Petterson, Freddy Asprilla and couldn’t reach/coach/get along with Wally Judge and Dominique Sutton…I mean, if memory serves me correctly, there hasn’t been one juco make it to graduation under frank martin. 

I think Nick was the only loss there....

Fred and Ron could of helped and seemed to accept and thrive in supporting roles better than Nick

the DPete for Jones swap    :curse:

Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: sys on February 20, 2012, 07:27:49 PM
who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 

just listened to the 2-6 catchat, in which martin states that spradling has been selfish in refusing to shoot open shots.  more interested in not missing than in providing his teammates the opportunity to oboard (which is their job, as spradling's job is to shoot).
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: catzacker on February 20, 2012, 08:26:47 PM
who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 

just listened to the 2-6 catchat, in which martin states that spradling has been selfish in refusing to shoot open shots.  more interested in not missing than in providing his teammates the opportunity to oboard (which is their job, as spradling's job is to shoot).

 :gocho:

i could have been the greatest.
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Cire on February 20, 2012, 08:52:09 PM
who the f is being selfish?  If anything, it's Sprads not being selfish enough.  We're horrible/not as good as frank wants because this coaching staff hasn't done their jobs in (a) recruiting (b) coaching or (c) both.  This coaching staff has failed on so many goddamn levels it's unbelievable and that is a completely bullsh*t, cop-out quote.  You know what's really hard to coach?  the untalented players that frank puts out there. 

just listened to the 2-6 catchat, in which martin states that spradling has been selfish in refusing to shoot open shots.  more interested in not missing than in providing his teammates the opportunity to oboard (which is their job, as spradling's job is to shoot).
:love:
Title: Re: BIOQBB
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on April 17, 2021, 03:43:51 PM
This great moment in the history of BIOQBB from 6yrs ago just popped up [graphic by _FAN, of course]:


(https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10731110_10205388949675955_6342017008087681117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=e1Sd7HytJP4AX8AP6Ii&_nc_ht=scontent.fict1-1.fna&oh=4ed2cc21c4bf6a986dd5c8965bfdab9c&oe=60A256D9)