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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: wetwillie on January 13, 2011, 05:13:36 PM

Title: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 13, 2011, 05:13:36 PM
Please out yourself in this thread if you have mentioned Frank needs to be fired in the last day or two. TIA
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: 'taterblast on January 13, 2011, 05:14:00 PM
no
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 13, 2011, 05:16:19 PM
no
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 13, 2011, 05:17:37 PM
If the team misses the tournament both this year and next year, I will want Frank gone.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 13, 2011, 05:18:34 PM
If the team misses the tournament both this year and next year, I will want Frank gone.

Hurts to say it, but I can't disagree. 
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Immaculate1 on January 13, 2011, 05:20:04 PM
No!

3 successive seasons of realistic underachieving gets me to that point.


So far...I can't say I'm counting this season as that yet.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: bigwillie20 on January 13, 2011, 05:23:02 PM
JFC  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sys on January 13, 2011, 05:26:08 PM
If the team misses the tournament both this year and next year, I will want Frank gone.

Hurts to say it, but I can't disagree. 

lol.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: WildcatNation on January 13, 2011, 05:28:48 PM
GTFO. Franks the best coach we've had in 25 years. Theres about 5 coaches in the country who could teach this team maturity. Just because were underachieving eventually some of the blame has to go on the players.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Ira Hayes on January 13, 2011, 05:38:58 PM
I would be ready to fire him if he doesn't make the tourney in the next 6 years.  Maybe 5 if it's obvious that we still suck and have no chance in year 6.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: KITNfury on January 13, 2011, 05:40:12 PM
I'll revisit the idea if we go three years without a tourney appearance. Until then, eff no.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: I_have_purplewood on January 13, 2011, 05:48:46 PM
The transformation to gopowercat.com is almost complete...
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: massofcatfan on January 13, 2011, 05:51:12 PM
maintain the tradition of waiting until we get blown out by UMKC and then extend him for a year.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Ira Hayes on January 13, 2011, 05:54:08 PM
I would be ready to ban purplewood if he doesn't make a decent post in the next 3 months.  Maybe 2 if it's obvious that he still sucks and has no chance in month 3.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 13, 2011, 05:55:14 PM
To clarify I feel like the anti-frank vibe is getting pretty strong around here, people backing away from the pay frank thing etc.  I am of the opinion that he is a great coach and that only a prolonged period of not making the tournament (3-5 years) would ever make me want to get rid of him.  I wanted a forum for people to take a position, because it seems like some people are on the verge of wanting him gone.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sys on January 13, 2011, 06:00:11 PM
it seems like some people are on the verge of wanting him gone.

you have to remember that our fans are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  that remains true whether the bball team wins or loses.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Saulbadguy on January 13, 2011, 06:02:42 PM
Frank Martin Family Coliseum.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: steve dave on January 13, 2011, 06:15:34 PM
Frank Martin Family Coliseum.

best post in thread
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: O-town Kat on January 13, 2011, 06:30:33 PM
No. Needs to run off an assistant or two though.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 13, 2011, 06:47:28 PM
No. Needs to run off an assistant or two though.

I would like to change my answer to  ^this.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 13, 2011, 06:53:57 PM
No. Needs to run off an assistant or two though.

Wouldn't mind seeing this. Would definitely clear up whether or not Frank will stay loyal to non performing assistants like Snyder.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kstatefreak42 on January 14, 2011, 04:51:14 AM
No.


f*ck you Frank and your shitty recruiting. Thats really all i have to say about frank.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kso_FAN on January 14, 2011, 07:27:24 AM
No. Needs to run off an assistant or two though.

I think Frank may have Snyder-ish loyalty with his assistants.  We'll see.

And no way would I fire Frank. 
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 14, 2011, 07:50:22 AM
No . . . but he's obviously going to have to recruit better. 

Gipson and Angel are a semi decent start, but that level of recruiting should be the baseline level of recruiting for this staff.   

Unless someone has got some information to the contrary, I see no reason to retain Hill at $450K a year unless he starts bringing in some significant talent.

Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kso_FAN on January 14, 2011, 08:05:47 AM
Unless someone has got some information to the contrary, I see no reason to retain Hill at $450K a year unless he starts bringing in some significant talent.

I can't disagree with this.  Its hard to justify the position and pay if the recruiting results aren't there.  I think it was a great move at the time it happened and helped K-State basketball get to where it is at, but recruiting has to continue at a reasonable rate to justify keeping that kind of assistant on staff at that pay.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Saulbadguy on January 14, 2011, 08:12:00 AM
Underwood coaches the big men, right?  He is basically Chris Cosh at this point.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: catzacker on January 14, 2011, 10:34:27 AM
I think a better question is “do you think you’re going to want frank fired in 3 years or less”.  And, IMO, if you’re hoping that we’ll get it “turned around” next year, you’re lying to yourself.  We’re not.  Not with the crap that’s coming back or coming in.  It’s so “Wooly-esque hope” it’s unbelievable.   Every year thinking that untalented players getting a year older will make it all better.  So, with that said, I don’t want frank gone now, but judging by this staff’s post-dca divorce recruiting, I’m going to want frank fired.  Probably after next year. 
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kougar24 on January 14, 2011, 10:45:46 AM
No . . . but he's obviously going to have to recruit better. 

Gipson and Angel are a semi decent start, but that level of recruiting should be the baseline level of recruiting for this staff.   

Unless someone has got some information to the contrary, I see no reason to retain Hill at $450K a year unless he starts bringing in some significant talent.



best post in this thread.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2011, 11:02:19 AM
No . . . but he's obviously going to have to recruit better. 

Gipson and Angel are a semi decent start, but that level of recruiting should be the baseline level of recruiting for this staff.   

Unless someone has got some information to the contrary, I see no reason to retain Hill at $450K a year unless he starts bringing in some significant talent.

Isn't there some Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) clause in Hill's contract that would make it ridiculously hard to fire him?  I thought I remembered something. 
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: catzacker on January 14, 2011, 11:14:34 AM
No . . . but he's obviously going to have to recruit better. 

Gipson and Angel are a semi decent start, but that level of recruiting should be the baseline level of recruiting for this staff.   

Unless someone has got some information to the contrary, I see no reason to retain Hill at $450K a year unless he starts bringing in some significant talent.

Isn't there some Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) clause in Hill's contract that would make it ridiculously hard to fire him?  I thought I remembered something. 

i think he got a 2yr (or multi-year) contract or something.  which usually asst's don't get. 
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: stunted on January 14, 2011, 11:17:02 AM
if Hill is fired, Beasley might not like us anymore.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 14, 2011, 11:20:13 AM
These are the numbers I could find on salaries of the remaing 10 in the league for next year.  I would say we have been out recruited by everyone except for Hoiberg, Knight and probably Capel at this point.  Can we reasonably expect to be on the lower end of the pay scale for coaching salaries and still recruit in the top three of the league?  I would say that with TE450k's salary we are probably closer to the middle of the pack in overall salary cost and should expect Martin at this level to recruit in the top 4 of the league every year. 


Fred Hoiberg   800,000.00
Frank Martin   1,200,000.00
Pat Knight   1,200,000.00
Travis Ford   1,300,000.00
Jeff Capel              1,500,000.00
Mark Turgeon   1,500,000.00
Mike Anderson   1,500,000.00
Rick Barnes    2,000,000.00
Bill Self               3,000,000.00
Scott Drew   ????
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kso_FAN on January 14, 2011, 11:55:20 AM
These are the numbers I could find on salaries of the remaing 10 in the league for next year.  I would say we have been out recruited by everyone except for Hoiberg, Knight and probably Capel at this point.  Can we reasonably expect to be on the lower end of the pay scale for coaching salaries and still recruit in the top three of the league?  I would say that with TE450k's salary we are probably closer to the middle of the pack in overall salary cost and should expect Martin at this level to recruit in the top 4 of the league every year. 


Fred Hoiberg   800,000.00
Frank Martin   1,200,000.00
Pat Knight   1,200,000.00
Travis Ford   1,300,000.00
Jeff Capel              1,500,000.00
Mark Turgeon   1,500,000.00
Mike Anderson   1,500,000.00
Rick Barnes    2,000,000.00
Bill Self               3,000,000.00
Scott Drew   ????


While not completely his decision, I'm sure Frank had to be part of the initial paying of Te, and resigning Te to more money.  And he has to know that he could probably make more (close to the 1.5 Mil coaches) without paying Te what we pay him.  I'm sure there is a pool of money to pay the basketball staff (with some wiggle room) and paying Te more either means Frank makes less, or the other assistants make less.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Skipper44 on January 14, 2011, 11:57:15 AM
It appears our only chance at playmakers is either DITR (pullen) or giving 2nd chances to elite recruits (CK, Omari  :crossfingers:).  Neither of these are guaranteed paths to sucess but OSU under Eddie Sutton combined them to have a program that was solidly 2nd tier after KU and TX.  

I still think Frank and the current staff have been pretty similar to what OSU did under Eddie with the exception of the couple of great teams they had when Big Country developed into an NBA center and the way they benefited from the Baylor disaster with Lucas.

Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on January 14, 2011, 12:44:01 PM
It appears our only chance at playmakers is either DITR (pullen) or giving 2nd chances to elite recruits (CK, Omari  :crossfingers:).  Neither of these are guaranteed paths to sucess but OSU under Eddie Sutton combined them to have a program that was solidly 2nd tier after KU and TX.  


Probably the absolute ceiling for this program, regardless of who the coach is, people.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 14, 2011, 12:50:39 PM
It appears our only chance at playmakers is either DITR (pullen) or giving 2nd chances to elite recruits (CK, Omari  :crossfingers:).  Neither of these are guaranteed paths to sucess but OSU under Eddie Sutton combined them to have a program that was solidly 2nd tier after KU and TX.  


Probably the absolute ceiling for this program, regardless of who the coach is, people.

I refuse to believe this.  At some point, cheating will be too attractive.  I want to think, in my heart, that Frank has learned his lesson via Tony Mitchell.  We would have had him eligible and we would be doing much better with him on our team right now.  One check was the diff.

Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: 0.42 on January 14, 2011, 12:52:50 PM
IMO, nothing has shown us that Frank won't adapt and surround himself with great coaching talent and eventually great players, unlike Bill. I'm ok with keeping him around.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 14, 2011, 12:56:57 PM
PC46, isn't GPC just rough ridin' horrible now?  Gotta be why you are checking this place out.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: nicname on January 14, 2011, 01:11:25 PM
It appears our only chance at playmakers is either DITR (pullen) or giving 2nd chances to elite recruits (CK, Omari  :crossfingers:).  Neither of these are guaranteed paths to sucess but OSU under Eddie Sutton combined them to have a program that was solidly 2nd tier after KU and TX.  


Probably the absolute ceiling for this program, regardless of who the coach is, people.

If you think that OSU under Sutton was under TX then you are sadly mistaken.  Sutton had 5 conference/ Phillips titles.  Two final fours, 3 elite eights, and 5 sweet 16's.  They were behind Kansas.  They weren't behind anyone else.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on January 14, 2011, 01:22:14 PM
PC46, isn't GPC just effing horrible now?  Gotta be why you are checking this place out.

Two reasons:

1. Your brilliant posting.

2. My mom took away my allowance so I can't pay for the GPC subscription anymore. Just hanging out in my parent's basement stealing wireless from the neighbors.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: PowercatPat on January 14, 2011, 01:33:53 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: steve dave on January 14, 2011, 01:34:35 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?

No, quit being a dumbass
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: bigwillie20 on January 14, 2011, 01:37:07 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi289.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll234%2FIkore_2008%2F1272445954095.gif&hash=64470a23c6f9992998701e0a3350767fdd2221cc)
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 14, 2011, 01:52:18 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?

Finally outed one, about time
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 14, 2011, 02:00:37 PM
Frank's Salary is a little over $1.5 million, I don't know where the hell anyone is getting $1.2 million.

Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 14, 2011, 02:04:33 PM
Frank's Salary is a little over $1.5 million, I don't know where the hell anyone is getting $1.2 million.



Do you have a link for the big 12's basketball coaches? I had to use wikipedia because the only thing else I could find was his original salary of around 800,000 prior to the "pay frank" movement.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sys on January 14, 2011, 03:26:50 PM
I want to think, in my heart, that Frank has learned his lesson via Tony Mitchell.  We would have had him eligible and we would be doing much better with him on our team right now.

nope.  not a single player on that team has qualified for an athletic scholarship.  they're all in juco, prep or out of american athletics (or still in hs).
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 14, 2011, 03:44:26 PM
I want to think, in my heart, that Frank has learned his lesson via Tony Mitchell.  We would have had him eligible and we would be doing much better with him on our team right now.

nope.  not a single player on that team has qualified for an athletic scholarship.  they're all in juco, prep or out of american athletics (or still in hs).

Ouch.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sys on January 14, 2011, 04:13:35 PM
Ouch.

yeah.  i'm a martinite, but placing mitchell at cla was pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  irregardless of what happened afterwards.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: felix rex on January 14, 2011, 04:27:22 PM
this thread feels weirdly familiar
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 14, 2011, 04:28:54 PM
Ouch.

yeah.  i'm a martinite, but placing mitchell at cla was pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  irregardless of what happened afterwards.


Is CLA the florida place, or the eventual TX place?
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: catzacker on January 14, 2011, 04:33:54 PM
this thread feels weirdly familiar

What?

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.lawrence.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2006%2F03%2F04%2FKU-Wooldridge-mad_t600x349.jpg%3F6e2a87ff410c880c234af92b11c223ca3e59fb70&hash=7501ecdb7d15e166128d435e05d49484baf166cb)
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: sys on January 14, 2011, 04:35:13 PM
Is CLA the florida place, or the eventual TX place?

cla is the school in florida where the kstate staff placed him.  it's called both center of life academy and choice learning academy, which is hilarious.

his mother then enrolled him in dallas pinkston, which in it's own way is every bit as bad a school as cla.  the poor bastard never really had a chance no matter which way he went.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: PowercatPat on January 14, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi289.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll234%2FIkore_2008%2F1272445954095.gif&hash=64470a23c6f9992998701e0a3350767fdd2221cc)

It's a legit question dumbass. I can see some posters on here melting down so bad if we lose that they will be wanting Frank fired.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Andy on January 14, 2011, 07:06:03 PM
If we lose this weekend to Tech, will most of you still not want him to be fired?

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi289.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll234%2FIkore_2008%2F1272445954095.gif&hash=64470a23c6f9992998701e0a3350767fdd2221cc)

It's a legit question dumbass. I can see some posters on here melting down so bad if we lose that they will be wanting Frank fired.

this board led the charge for "pay frank" not even a year ago.  you should probably just stop.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 14, 2011, 07:16:18 PM
It appears our only chance at playmakers is either DITR (pullen) or giving 2nd chances to elite recruits (CK, Omari  :crossfingers:).  Neither of these are guaranteed paths to sucess but OSU under Eddie Sutton combined them to have a program that was solidly 2nd tier after KU and TX.  


Probably the absolute ceiling for this program, regardless of who the coach is, people.

 :excited:

If Martin can even accomplish half of what OSU did with Eddie Sutton, I would be extremely happy. That would be amazing.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2011, 02:27:08 PM
bump for recent turn of events.  I'm still on board with Frank, probably going to start getting lonely
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2011, 02:29:33 PM
I'm sticking with what I said earlier. Frank should get 1 more season before his seat starts getting hot.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2011, 02:31:15 PM
bump for recent turn of events.  I'm still on board with Frank, probably going to start getting lonely

I wouldn't fire him now. But I can understand the concerns and I can't defend the roster turnover. At some point it's not the fault of the multiple players that left your program. I don't care if each situation is different. You're the teacher Frank, you should know how to manage kids in multiple situations, especially when you choose them for your program.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: pissclams on January 31, 2011, 02:33:21 PM
bump for recent turn of events.  I'm still on board with Frank, probably going to start getting lonely

I wouldn't fire him now. But I can understand the concerns and I can't defend the roster turnover. At some point it's not the fault of the multiple players that left your program. I don't care if each situation is different. You're the teacher Frank, you should know how to manage kids in multiple situations, especially when you choose them for your program.

this is key.  for a guy that spends so much time focused on finding the "right fit", he sure seems to suck at it.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: PoetWarrior on January 31, 2011, 02:35:00 PM
Fire him because his players hate basketball.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: CNS on January 31, 2011, 02:36:20 PM
Fire him because his players hate basketball.

Take a breathe bro.  Don't let this one define you.
Title: Re: Do You Want Him Fired
Post by: 1992 on January 31, 2011, 04:48:26 PM
Bob Chipman would be cheap.

Could we lure Gregg Marshall from Wichita?