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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: nicname on December 21, 2010, 10:44:38 PM

Title: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: nicname on December 21, 2010, 10:44:38 PM
Can someone please tell me how, with the current players (including Pullen and Kelly) our team can become more efficient on offense? 

Under Frank we have had

1.  A season with two one-and-done players who were able to carry our offense themselves.
2.  Two seasons with Denis Clemente, who allowed us to play in transition when otherwise we wouldn't.
3.  This season where even with Pullen and Kelly it seems like we don't have a clue. 

We bring the ball up, four guys play patty-cake in the key, or dilly around on one corner.  Meanwhile our guards pound the basketball into the court, or hold it forever, before trying to make an entry pass, shoot a three, or drive. 

Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Acceleration Man on December 21, 2010, 10:46:33 PM
1. Make layups
2. Don't make stupid passes that no one can catch
3. Catch the good ones instead of fumbling them around underneath the rim
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: AzCat on December 21, 2010, 10:46:55 PM
1. Recruit better players.
2. See #1.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: j-von on December 21, 2010, 10:48:03 PM
Hire an offensive minded assistant coach who can recruit and isn't a drunk?
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kitten_mittons on December 21, 2010, 10:51:54 PM
Get the ball inside.

Bigs don't play like pussies and they make their shots or get fouled rather than missing hook shots and getting blocked.

Also would be beneficial if they could pass out of a double team.

Problem with the offense is the bigs, anyone think any different is a dumbass.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: nicname on December 21, 2010, 10:52:28 PM
Hire an offensive minded assistant coach who can recruit and isn't a drunk?


This would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: wabash909 on December 21, 2010, 10:55:19 PM
Stop being a bunch of rough ridin' pussies.

Stop being a bunch of rough ridin' pussies.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kitten_mittons on December 21, 2010, 10:59:26 PM
Melting down after this game is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Crowd was awesome.  More meaningful sprint center games.  Got louder than the ood.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kso_FAN on December 21, 2010, 10:59:38 PM
Make open shots and the offensive efficiency goes way up.  I could care less who thinks it looks pretty. The offense has generated plenty of good shots the last two games and we have to have players make them.  Even though they aren't 5 star or whatever, the players we have are good enough to score the ball in the situations this offense creates.

After that, get rid of the careless play with the ball; a bunch of our TOs were just fumbles/poor decisions that it really wouldn't matter what offense, guys just have to not be dumb with the ball.

And yeah, I'll say it, get your head right at the FT line.  I'm not asking for 80% here, but come on, you should be able to hit 65% as a team.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: EMAWzified on December 21, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
Asprilla: Listed at 6 10, actually 6 8, plays like 6 4. How many times did he get blocked tonight? Who after watching him thought he could help in the post?
Judge: Hasn't an effing clue on what to do with the ball in his hands.
Samuels: Dunk it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JHR: Driving from the top of the key probably not going to work.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: _33 on December 21, 2010, 11:02:56 PM
Melting down after this game is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Crowd was awesome.  More meaningful sprint center games.  Got louder than the ood.

Agreed, no need to meltdown about the loss because the crowd got loud.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: ELL3 on December 21, 2010, 11:10:06 PM
our spacing on offense is terrible
a lot of the time 3 or 4 guys are ten feet apart
a big part of our success the last 3 seasons has been shooting so many freebies, if you can't make em then it's not real productive
we are hard to watch, seems like spasketball at times
defense is a staple with this team and will keep us in games
4 out 1 in would be a better offense for this team
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kitten_mittons on December 21, 2010, 11:10:48 PM
Melting down after this game is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Crowd was awesome.  More meaningful sprint center games.  Got louder than the ood.

Agreed, no need to meltdown about the loss because the crowd got loud.  :rolleyes:
Those were two separate thoughts.  Shouldn't melt down because we were missing our two best offensive players and two of our best defenders, and our two most experienced players, our two players picked to be on all big xii teams.  If we can get this kind of effort with jake and curt in the lineup we'll win a lot of basketball games this year.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: hemmy on December 21, 2010, 11:13:10 PM
Melting down after this game is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Crowd was awesome.  More meaningful sprint center games.  Got louder than the ood.

No it didn't.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: PowercatPat on December 21, 2010, 11:15:37 PM
I have an idea, let's recruit players that can actually score. Spradling, Southwell, JHR, and Asprilla can't score for their lives.

Edit: forgot to add the Canadian to that list.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: AzCat on December 21, 2010, 11:18:53 PM
Seems like Huggins had some theory about getting guys who could put the ball in the hole or something like that.  He's done pretty well for himself maybe Frank should try that.   :ck:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: GetVocalwithCurt on December 21, 2010, 11:21:15 PM
run pick and roll much more. worked really well for irving tonight to get him going. curt would actually be great at pick and roll basketball. also we need to find an effing point guard.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: slackcat on December 22, 2010, 03:28:25 AM
Hire an offensive minded assistant coach who can recruit and isn't a drunk?

Bobby Knight, would love it. :love:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: doom on December 22, 2010, 04:19:31 AM
I would also like to see Sprads learn some transition offense instead of always trying to set offense off of a break. 
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: chum1 on December 22, 2010, 06:33:45 AM
did everyone give up on the take more shots/get more rebounds mantra?  or did we just forget who we are?
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 07:45:30 AM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.  

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass.  

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 22, 2010, 08:17:46 AM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.  

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass.  

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.

Why would you send Irving packing? he seemed pretty solid last night.  Had a couple of TO's but he started us off on our 14 - 0 run in the middle of the 2nd half.

I like Irving a lot.

I think the biggest problem with our offense is spacing.  It is hard to a 6'9" or 7' guy to catch a 3 foot bounce pass.  And we seem to like to throw those a lot.  We probably could use to line up our bigs and throw 200 passes at them a day.  So that they get used to catching the damn ball.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: catsdo on December 22, 2010, 08:43:11 AM
Didn't Irving have more than just two turnovers?  Seemed like he fouled at some pretty horrible times too.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: mcmwcat on December 22, 2010, 08:51:01 AM
did everyone give up on the take more shots/get more rebounds mantra?  or did we just forget who we are?

apparently the players did not getting up shots before turning it over - 23 times.  just shoot the damn ball.  can't score if you don't shoot :angry:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: mcmwcat on December 22, 2010, 08:52:08 AM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.  

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass.  

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.


why are you giving Spradling a pass?  Russel & Irving are both 100 X the player
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
I am down with Sprads either being gone or be relegated to a bench clapper.    He's not a PG, he's too slow and we spend 15 seconds of the play clock just waiting on him to get into a position where he can even throw a pass.

Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Panjandrum on December 22, 2010, 10:10:19 AM
Play Asprilla less.

Play Nick Russell more (assuming he stops turning the ball over), and tell him to drive to the hoop.

Tell Spradling to shoot the ball more.

Get Wally more face up jumpers within ten feet and give him the green light and tell him to just shoot it already.

Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Panjandrum on December 22, 2010, 10:11:15 AM
did everyone give up on the take more shots/get more rebounds mantra?  or did we just forget who we are?

Chum kind of summed it up right there.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: wetwillie on December 22, 2010, 10:19:46 AM
Play Asprilla less.

Play Nick Russell more (assuming he stops turning the ball over), and tell him to drive to the hoop.

Tell Spradling to shoot the ball more.

Get Wally more face up jumpers within ten feet and give him the green light and tell him to just shoot it already
.



His 10-12 footer from the short corner was encouraging, hopefully we can figure out how to use him effectively with a few more face up opportunities
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: _33 on December 22, 2010, 10:24:11 AM
Play Asprilla less.

Play Nick Russell more (assuming he stops turning the ball over), and tell him to drive to the hoop.

Tell Spradling to shoot the ball more.

Get Wally more face up jumpers within ten feet and give him the green light and tell him to just shoot it already
.



His 10-12 footer from the short corner was encouraging, hopefully we can figure out how to use him effectively with a few more face up opportunities

No, it wasn't encouraging.  He might try to shoot it again now.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kso_FAN on December 22, 2010, 10:26:50 AM
did everyone give up on the take more shots/get more rebounds mantra?  or did we just forget who we are?

Chum kind of summed it up right there.

What is this in regards to? 

It was a 72 possession game, pace was fine, but the 2nd worst TO% of the Martin/Huggs era prevented a ton of shots from getting up.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 22, 2010, 10:28:36 AM
Play Asprilla less.

Play Nick Russell more (assuming he stops turning the ball over), and tell him to drive to the hoop.

Tell Spradling to shoot the ball more.

Get Wally more face up jumpers within ten feet and give him the green light and tell him to just shoot it already
.



His 10-12 footer from the short corner was encouraging, hopefully we can figure out how to use him effectively with a few more face up opportunities
I was playing the how would I get Wally more invloved with the offense and I was thinking about playing him at the 3.  He is a better shooter than I think people give him credit for and he does not play well with his back to the basket.  I think I could play the 3, defense would be the problem but he might be able to handle it  :dunno:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 10:32:24 AM
At all costs put Wally somewhere on the floor where he is most comfotable and see how it plays out . . . if it doesn't work out it doesn't work.   But quit turning the kid into a rough ridin' headcase by forcing him to do stuff he's not comfortable doing.   

He's going to be the last McD AA to play at K-State under Frank Martin, so try and make it work out at all costs.

Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Gooch on December 22, 2010, 10:34:24 AM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.   

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass. 

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.

Your Irving hate is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 10:36:30 AM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.   

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass. 

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.

Your Irving hate is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

His overall court vision sucks, he dribbles with his head down and consistantly makes dumbass passes . . . I suppose if you're down with Asbury/Altman/Wooldridge talent, than Tay is your hero.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: michigancat on December 22, 2010, 10:37:14 AM
1. Recruit better players.
2. See #1.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: 114Hickory on December 22, 2010, 11:19:42 AM
Don't be 1/2 - 2 seconds late recognizing everything.  See a double coming and make a play before being trapped.  See a post flash open and feed immediately.  Notice full court pressure that is slow to develop anyway (at least last night) and get the ball upcourt.  Everything is late.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: KSU Scott on December 22, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
"- Asprilla: Listed at 6 10, actually 6 8, plays like 6 4. How many times did he get blocked tonight? Who after watching him thought he could help in the post?
 - Judge: Hasn't an effing clue on what to do with the ball in his hands.
 - Samuels: Dunk it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 - JHR: Driving from the top of the key probably not going to work."


pretty much sums it up. 

I will add:

- the spacing on the floor in our offensive sets is typically pretty non-existent.  Furthermore, with the exception of the nice inbounds backdoor cut for a layup by Irving, I think, I'm hard-pressed to remember one decent "play" during the entire game.  I mean for God's sake, get Wally some confidence with a back screen alley oop every game.....the coaches are literally pissing away his athletic ability.

- Frank - stop blaming the players (all the time) and take a long look in the mirror

- I'm convinced the worst thing that happend was Jake being named preseason AA and the team being ranked #4.  It went to their heads.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Panjandrum on December 22, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
did everyone give up on the take more shots/get more rebounds mantra?  or did we just forget who we are?

Chum kind of summed it up right there.

What is this in regards to? 

It was a 72 possession game, pace was fine, but the 2nd worst TO% of the Martin/Huggs era prevented a ton of shots from getting up.

Maybe the stats show otherwise, but it seems like the guys are tentative in putting up shots.  The 'chuck-and-chase' offense really only works if we're willing to chuck.

It's quite possible that I'm just thinking of the 8 million transition threes Denis would put up fearlessly, and we'd go run them down and put them back up.  It seems like the longer this team takes in their possessions, the more likely it is we're going to turn the ball over and give up some transition bucket.  To me, to increase the pace and get us back to playing JYC ball, we need more shots earlier in the possession.  

That may be a simplistic and completely inaccurate assessment gained by not looking at hard data and using my gut feeling, but that's kind of where I intended to take Chum's statement.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: CHONGS on December 22, 2010, 11:47:19 AM
Plz vote in my poll thx
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: OregonSmock on December 22, 2010, 02:30:08 PM
Why does Frank hate offense?
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: PowercatPat on December 22, 2010, 02:48:33 PM
Why does Frank hate offense?

Defense wins championships
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kougar24 on December 22, 2010, 02:49:05 PM
1.  Send Assprilla, Roberts, Irving, Judge, Myles and Russell packing.   

2.  Recruit significantly better and pull Frank's head out of Art Alvarez's ass. 

3.  Send Dalonte Hill packing and divide his salary up between 2 new assistant coaches who have a clue and who can recruit.

Your Irving hate is effing Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

His overall court vision sucks, he dribbles with his head down and consistantly makes dumbass passes . . . I suppose if you're down with Asbury/Altman/Wooldridge talent, than Tay is your hero.


Naturally, dax chooses to harp on the guard with the best A/T ratio of any impact player on the team. :lol:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Benja on December 22, 2010, 03:30:29 PM
1. Recruit better players.
2. See #1.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 03:48:21 PM
Oh yeah, you cling to that talking point Kougs, let's see how Tay shakes out against the 5 teams K-State has played that are decent to good.

Last night . . . he had 4 turnovers and 1 assist.  In case you missed that Kougs that was FOUR turnovers and 1 assist. 

Florida . . . 1 assist  (congrats Tay, you had 1 more assist than a dead guy).

WSU . . . NO assists, No turnovers . . . huge

Duke . . . No assists, No turnovers . . . way to create Tay!!

Zaga . . . 2 assists . . . look out Magic Johnson

Virginia Tech  1 assist . . . 2 turnovers

Yeah Kougs, Cling to that one buddy  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 22, 2010, 03:54:25 PM
Our offense does not lend itself to assists, unless you are creating off the dribble.  Nobody will have gaudy assist #'s when running this offense and our bigs can't catch the ball.  A couple of times we had a good look at an easy basket and we miss it so I'm not going to go off of assists as a relitive stat till we start making more easy shots.

Also what is the deal with the offensive play where we dribble baseline and jump out of bounds to throw to the opposite baseline?  It was stolen a couple of times last night but Sprads and Russell do it all the time.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 03:56:17 PM
I agree with hutch . . . but it doesn't help that our guards are just struggling to keep their dribble, advance the ball up the court and have their head down much of the time.

But like I've also said, our offense "creates"   :lol: some of the worst passing angles you can have, particularly on post entry.



Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: Benja on December 22, 2010, 03:58:09 PM
Our offense does a lot of things that unfortunately are no help to most of the personnel we have right now.
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: kougar24 on December 22, 2010, 04:12:26 PM
Oh yeah, you cling to that talking point Kougs, let's see how Tay shakes out against the 5 teams K-State has played that are decent to good.

Last night . . . he had 4 turnovers and 1 assist.  In case you missed that Kougs that was FOUR turnovers and 1 assist. 

Florida . . . 1 assist  (congrats Tay, you had 1 more assist than a dead guy).

WSU . . . NO assists, No turnovers . . . huge

Duke . . . No assists, No turnovers . . . way to create Tay!!

Zaga . . . 2 assists . . . look out Magic Johnson

Virginia Tech  1 assist . . . 2 turnovers

Yeah Kougs, Cling to that one buddy  :thumbsup:



And yet, still better than our other guards. :dunno:
Title: Re: How can we get better on offense?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 22, 2010, 04:16:50 PM
I understand.