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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: Jeffy on November 25, 2010, 09:19:22 AM
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Had today's political class been in power in 1623, tomorrow's holiday would have been called "Starvation Day" instead of Thanksgiving. Of course, most of us wouldn't be alive to celebrate it.
Every year around this time, schoolchildren are taught about that wonderful day when Pilgrims and Native Americans shared the fruits of the harvest. But the first Thanksgiving in 1623 almost didn't happen.
Long before the failure of modern socialism, the earliest European settlers gave us a dramatic demonstration of the fatal flaws of collectivism. Unfortunately, few Americans today know it.
The Pilgrims at Plymouth Colony organized their farm economy along communal lines. The goal was to share the work and produce equally.
That's why they nearly all starved.
When people can get the same return with less effort, most people make less effort. Plymouth settlers faked illness rather than working the common property. Some even stole, despite their Puritan convictions. Total production was too meager to support the population, and famine resulted. This went on for two years.
"So as it well appeared that famine must still ensue the next year also, if not some way prevented," wrote Gov. William Bradford in his diary. The colonists, he said, "began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in misery. At length after much debate of things, [with the advice of the chiefest among them] gave way that they should set corn every man for his own particular, and in that regard trust to themselves. And so assigned to every family a parcel of land."
In other words, the people of Plymouth moved from socialism to private farming. The results were dramatic.
"This had very good success," Bradford wrote, "for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been. By this time harvest was come, and instead of famine, now God gave them plenty, and the face of things was changed, to the rejoicing of the hearts of many."
Because of the change, the first Thanksgiving could be held in November 1623.
What Plymouth suffered under communalism was what economists today call the tragedy of the commons. The problem has been known since ancient Greece. As Aristotle noted, "That which is common to the greatest number has the least care bestowed upon it."
If individuals can take from a common pot regardless of how much they put in it, each person has an incentive to be a free-rider, to do as little as possible and take as much as possible because what one fails to take will be taken by someone else. Soon, the pot is empty.
What private property does -- as the Pilgrims discovered -- is connect effort to reward, creating an incentive for people to produce far more. Then, if there's a free market, people will trade their surpluses to others for the things they lack. Mutual exchange for mutual benefit makes the community richer.
Here's the biggest irony of all: The U.S. government has yet to apply the lesson to its first conquest, Native Americans.
The U.S. government has held most Indian land in trust since the 19th century. This discourages initiative and risk-taking because, among other reasons, it can't be used as collateral for loans.
On Indian reservations, "private land is 40 to 90 percent more productive than land owned through the Bureau of Indian Affairs," says economist Terry Anderson, executive director of PERC. "If you drive through western reservations, you will see on one side cultivated fields, irrigation, and on the other side, overgrazed pasture, run-down pastures and homes. One is a simple commons; the other side is private property. You have Indians on both sides. The important thing is someone owns one side."
Secure property rights are the key. When producers know their future products are safe from confiscation, they take risks and invest. But when they fear they will be deprived of the fruits of their labor, they will do as little as possible.
That's the lost lesson of Thanksgiving.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/11/24/john-stossel-lost-lesson-thanksgiving
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Also, they didn't know how to farm in the Soil of the Region.
Also they arrived after the growing season.
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Also they arrived after the growing season.
The first year
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D'oh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QdQErc8JQ) :opcat: :ck:
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D'oh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QdQErc8JQ) :opcat: :ck:
JFC you post the worst rough ridin' videos
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D'oh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QdQErc8JQ) :opcat: :ck:
JFC you post the worst rough ridin' videos
Hai guise.... I've found another Samwell fan.
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D'oh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QdQErc8JQ) :opcat: :ck:
JFC you post the worst rough ridin' videos
Hai guise.... I've found another Samwell fan.
now that is a good video!
hes all like "what what?" and im all like "what samwell? what?!" and then hes all "in my butt" rough ridin' classic !!!!!!!!!!!!
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D'oh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QdQErc8JQ) :opcat: :ck:
JFC you post the worst effing videos
And yet you continue to watch them. Fascinating. :users:
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also, we'd all be speaking french, spanish and german. we've dodged a bullet or two.
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
They paid them fair and square for it, wouldnt you give up your home for some shiny beads and metal pots?
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
They paid them fair and square for it, wouldnt you give up your home for some shiny beads and metal pots?
If both parties agree it's fair at the time, then there is no issue. Future performance of the two investments is irrelevant.
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Well put, Jeffy. How do you feel about Anjolina Jolie leaving the country on TG so her kids wouldn't be exposed to the racist holiday?
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
:opcat:
Native Americans are f8cking retards for selling us their land so cheap. Just like the French and the Louisiana Purchase. Americans are just good at getting deals done, goofball.
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
:opcat:
Native Americans are f8cking retards for selling us their land so cheap. Just like the French and the Louisiana Purchase. Americans are just good at getting deals done, goofball.
eff yeah, 'Mericans rock!!!!!!!!!!
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Well put, Jeffy. How do you feel about Anjolina Jolie leaving the country on TG so her kids wouldn't be exposed to the racist holiday?
Her choice? :ck:
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They were each given an equal plot of land? And they were all given a chance to be their own boss? That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
In a pure sense, no, but considering there was no "owned" land to buy and it was simply distributed, its a good starting off point. From that point someone likely could have sold their share or purchased other shares with the profits from their land.
It was stolen from the Indians.
:opcat:
Native Americans are fakeing retards for selling us their land so cheap. Just like the French and the Louisiana Purchase. Americans are just good at getting deals done, goofball.
eff yeah, 'Mericans rock!!!!!!!!!!
In other news: American Indians have really turned the corner, since cutting this shotty deal.
Using another nations taxpayer money ('Merican money that is) to build casinos (govt. sponsored monopoly) is probably THE DEAL of the century. Hopefully in 2100 descendants of poor white trash and the elderly can get reparations, free land, and a government sponsored monopoly from these unjust American Indian exploitations. I'm sure the not-racist, sympathetic libs will be leading that charge in their never ending (mindless) quest for social justice.
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In other news: American Indians have really turned the corner, since cutting this shotty deal.
Using another nations taxpayer money ('Merican money that is) to build casinos (govt. sponsored monopoly) is probably THE DEAL of the century. Hopefully in 2100 descendants of poor white trash and the elderly can get reparations, free land, and a government sponsored monopoly from these unjust American Indian exploitations. I'm sure the not-racist, sympathetic libs will be leading that charge in their never ending (mindless) quest for social justice.
Are Indian Casinos a liberal thing? Using taxpayer money to set up an exploitative business seems like more of a republican thing.
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In other news: American Indians have really turned the corner, since cutting this shotty deal.
Using another nations taxpayer money ('Merican money that is) to build casinos (govt. sponsored monopoly) is probably THE DEAL of the century. Hopefully in 2100 descendants of poor white trash and the elderly can get reparations, free land, and a government sponsored monopoly from these unjust American Indian exploitations. I'm sure the not-racist, sympathetic libs will be leading that charge in their never ending (mindless) quest for social justice.
Are Indian Casinos a liberal thing? Using taxpayer money to set up an exploitative business seems like more of a republican thing.
Seems like you've been brainwashed
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
All native american's that live on reservations with casinos make money from casinos. All native american's that live on reservations also get monthly stipends from the Federal government.
All native american's didn't own all the land in the United States before we got here, they just had their huts set up on a small fraction of it. Yet you say 'mericans stole all the land from them. :confused:
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Well put, Jeffy. How do you feel about Anjolina Jolie leaving the country on TG so her kids wouldn't be exposed to the racist holiday?
Her choice? :ck:
Agreed, but she pretty much exposed herself to be ignorant of the holiday. That's like me saying, "I won't ever root for K-State because why celebrate the subjugation of women?" It's like two things that have nothing to do with each other.
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
All native american's that live on reservations with casinos make money from casinos. All native american's that live on reservations also get monthly stipends from the Federal government.
All native american's didn't own all the land in the United States before we got here, they just had their huts set up on a small fraction of it. Yet you say 'mericans stole all the land from them. :confused:
Stolen is a much more accurate word than purchased. Are you saying it's okay for me to go and build an A-frame house in your front yard? Your house is only on a small fraction of your property, after all.
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
All native american's that live on reservations with casinos make money from casinos. All native american's that live on reservations also get monthly stipends from the Federal government.
All native american's didn't own all the land in the United States before we got here, they just had their huts set up on a small fraction of it. Yet you say 'mericans stole all the land from them. :confused:
Stolen is a much more accurate word than purchased. Are you saying it's okay for me to go and build an A-frame house in your front yard? Your house is only on a small fraction of your property, after all.
backwards :facepalm:
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
All native american's that live on reservations with casinos make money from casinos. All native american's that live on reservations also get monthly stipends from the Federal government.
All native american's didn't own all the land in the United States before we got here, they just had their huts set up on a small fraction of it. Yet you say 'mericans stole all the land from them. :confused:
Stolen is a much more accurate word than purchased. Are you saying it's okay for me to go and build an A-frame house in your front yard? Your house is only on a small fraction of your property, after all.
Weren't Native Americans pretty much wandering bands of nomads stealing land (via wars) from each other on a continual basis?
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Seems like you've been brainwashed
Yeah, I'm sure it's the liberals who are giving taxpayer money to box stores and farmers.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html (http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business/walmart_eminent_domain.html)
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/ (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/fortune500/retail_eminentdomain/)
http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain (http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/small-businesses-fight-abuse-eminent-domain)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8431)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/)
you've derailed, I want to hear more about how the Indians :opcat: "steal" from naive 'mericans using exploitative casinos
*you're also beyond naive if you think only republicans steer money to private industry (see anything Union and the "Green" industry)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that all Native Americans owned casinos. The government owes them nothing, and should not be using taxpayer money to build them casinos.
All native american's that live on reservations with casinos make money from casinos. All native american's that live on reservations also get monthly stipends from the Federal government.
All native american's didn't own all the land in the United States before we got here, they just had their huts set up on a small fraction of it. Yet you say 'mericans stole all the land from them. :confused:
Stolen is a much more accurate word than purchased. Are you saying it's okay for me to go and build an A-frame house in your front yard? Your house is only on a small fraction of your property, after all.
Weren't Native Americans pretty much wandering bands of nomads stealing land (via wars) from each other on a continual basis?
Pretty sure "scalping" your victim violates the Geneva Convention, or some crap (as applied retro-actively, which is legal per USAG Eric Holder)
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everyone has stolen land from everyone. taking land from someone else is basically the entirety of human history
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everyone has stolen land from everyone. taking land from someone else is basically the entirety of human history
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgalacticsupermarket.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F11%2Fcaptainobvious.jpg&hash=f8d1d246380476e1c862970f7b88a859504e5ce4)
I will say that 'mericans should get some props for at least pretending to pay for the land. They could have just as easily done what everyone else was doing at the time, and slaughtered them all.
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captain obvious
the point is it's stupid to get worked up about any particular thievery. i was supporting your argument, dumbass sugar dick.
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captain obvious
the point is it's stupid to get worked up about any particular thievery. i was supporting your argument, dumbass sugar dick.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgalacticsupermarket.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F11%2Fcaptainobvious.jpg&hash=f8d1d246380476e1c862970f7b88a859504e5ce4)
Sys, if I wanted your lip, I'd jiggle my zipper
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i'm a sucker for a, sugar dick.