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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Winters on November 24, 2010, 03:41:38 PM

Title: Free Throws
Post by: Winters on November 24, 2010, 03:41:38 PM
I mean seriously how hard is it to make over 50%  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: OK_Cat on November 24, 2010, 03:48:32 PM
goddamnit, winterz
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: EuroCat on November 24, 2010, 04:07:56 PM
Winters, you're better than this.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 24, 2010, 04:10:17 PM
Winters you're okay.  While I'm not an advocate of FT% as a major college basketball talking point, hovering around 50% is pretty terrible and costly.  Frank, just get these guys to hit 65% and it will be all good.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Havs on November 24, 2010, 10:42:46 PM
Lets ask the 2008 Memphis Tigers.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on November 24, 2010, 10:48:02 PM
Lets ask the 2008 Memphis Tigers.

q: hey 2008 Memphis Tigers, how does it feel to have a 38-2 season? 

a: pretty amazing, thanks for asking.  :cool:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: 'taterblast on November 25, 2010, 12:10:19 AM
Lets ask the 2008 Memphis Tigers.

q: hey 2008 Memphis Tigers, how does it feel to have a 38-2 season? 

a: pretty amazing, thanks for asking.  :cool:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR2q1k2CQJb7oB4n9Pjp91bTTIHrY12fZtslQUFyBUCR1qxrI94Nw&hash=1f475da1437404eef13b0fd887758372547f7871)
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: EMAWmeister on November 25, 2010, 01:54:13 AM
Lets ask the 2008 Memphis Tigers.

q: hey 2008 Memphis Tigers, how does it feel to have a 38-2 season? 

a: pretty amazing, thanks for asking.  :cool:

More like 0-40.  Cal was their coach.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: skycat on November 25, 2010, 01:58:00 AM
Winters you're okay.  While I'm not an advocate of FT% as a major college basketball talking point, hovering around 50% is pretty terrible and costly.  Frank, just get these guys to hit 65% and it will be all good.

Frank's concerned about the team's low FT%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGKTumcKOUE

He mentions it at 0:42 and at length starting at 7:40.

FRANK IS A powerespect!  :horrorsurprise:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: AzCat on November 25, 2010, 02:40:34 AM
Move along, nothing to see here, the 'Cats still shoot a higher percentage from the line than Alabama A&M, St. Peter's & Eastern Michigan.  Call me when they're dead last.  

Besides, the top 5 FT shooting teams in college basketball have a collective 9-11 record right now.  F*cking helping them one whole hell of a lot isn't it Frank?  

 :users:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: CNS on November 25, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
Winters you're okay.  While I'm not an advocate of FT% as a major college basketball talking point, hovering around 50% is pretty terrible and costly.  Frank, just get these guys to hit 65% and it will be all good.
ute

Frank's concerned about the team's low FT%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGKTumcKOUE

He mentions it at 0:42 and at length starting at 7:40.

FRANK IS A powerespect!  :horrorsurprise:

not a tard, just playing to them
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2010, 09:20:41 AM
Frank's talking point at the 7:40 mark is pretty much what most around here believe. FT% is way overrated as a talking point, but 50% is a bit ridiculous. As Frank said, not a worry, but a concern.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: cas4ksu on November 25, 2010, 11:33:03 AM
FT% is way overrated as a talking point, but 50% is a bit ridiculous. As Frank said, not a worry, but a concern.

I guess I don't understand why FT% is way overrated.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2010, 11:41:22 AM
FT% is way overrated as a talking point, but 50% is a bit ridiculous. As Frank said, not a worry, but a concern.

I guess I don't understand why FT% is way overrated.

Talking about how teams used to shoot 90% and we should at least shoot 80% is what I'm talking about. The real measure for FTs is how many times you go to the line compared to shots you take. FT rate. But shooting 65% compared to 75% is relatively insignificant on the impact it has on scoring, like 2-3 ppg at the most. But most people still simply focus on %-age.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sys on November 25, 2010, 02:34:20 PM
But shooting 65% compared to 75% is relatively insignificant on the impact it has on scoring, like 2-3 ppg at the most.

yep.  like 60% is about as bad as any team can shoot over the course of a season.  and 75% is about as good as any team can shoot.


in a game with 20 ft attempts, those percentages translate to a 3 point difference.  it's not insignificant, but the impact doesn't match the level of fan rhetoric.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: AzCat on November 30, 2010, 12:25:18 AM
Almost dead last. (http://kenpom.com/teamstats.php?s=RankFTPct)   If there is a God this will happen.   :crossfingers:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: AbeFroman on November 30, 2010, 12:56:37 AM
Almost dead last. (http://kenpom.com/teamstats.php?s=RankFTPct)   If there is a God this will happen.   :crossfingers:

eff EASTERN MICHIGAN  :curse: :chainsaw: :curse: :chainsaw: :curse:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: AzCat on November 30, 2010, 01:05:22 AM
Almost dead last. (http://kenpom.com/teamstats.php?s=RankFTPct)   If there is a God this will happen.   :crossfingers:

eff EASTERN MICHIGAN  :curse: :chainsaw: :curse: :chainsaw: :curse:

And a hat tip to St. Peter's for the 14-18 performance from the line tonight to pull them up to their present lofty position.   :driving:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 07:43:14 AM
Almost dead last. (http://kenpom.com/teamstats.php?s=RankFTPct)   If there is a God this will happen.   :crossfingers:

eff EASTERN MICHIGAN  :curse: :chainsaw: :curse: :chainsaw: :curse:

Coincidence that Eastern Michigan football is the only team in D1 that gave up more rushing yards per carry (6.1 compared to 5.9) than the Cats?

I DON'T THINK SO!
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 30, 2010, 07:52:32 AM
 :ck:

Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on November 30, 2010, 08:41:22 AM
I think the average fan just gets pissed off about our free throw shooting because they think they could go out there and do better. Most of our fans are dumbasses and couldn't even shoot 10% (see that embarrassing promotion a couple of years ago where you got cash if you could make a free throw). A lot of people in the stands actually could shoot about 70-75%, though, and it's frustrating to watch division 1 athletes shoot so poorly, even if it doesn't amount to a whole lot of points.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on November 30, 2010, 09:31:07 AM
i think people get pissed off because 50% as a team is unacceptable and is in the bottom 1% of the national rankings.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Stevesie60 on November 30, 2010, 10:52:25 AM
I think the average fan just gets pissed off about our free throw shooting because they think they could go out there and do better. Most of our fans are dumbasses and couldn't even shoot 10% (see that embarrassing promotion a couple of years ago where you got cash if you could make a free throw). A lot of people in the stands actually could shoot about 70-75%, though, and it's frustrating to watch division 1 athletes shoot so poorly, even if it doesn't amount to a whole lot of points.

We're still doing this. Up to $100 now.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Doberman_CATS!!! on November 30, 2010, 11:11:04 AM
Eastern Michigan beat Madonna... Wouldn't be the first gang bang for Madonna amirite?    :peek:

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Eastern Michigan
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Benja on November 30, 2010, 11:27:57 AM
I think the average fan just gets pissed off about our free throw shooting because they think they could go out there and do better.

No, this is exactly what it is. Old white dudes with wrinkly balls who used to shoot ft's underhanded back in the 50's think this is the one thing they could do better than these youngsters, so they latch onto it, even though it's at the bottom of the important-things-we-should-do-better-to-win-more-basketball-games list.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 11:29:25 AM
FT% is bad, but our FT rate is a much bigger concern.  IMHO.  <40 FTR is not very JYC-ish.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: trumanorme on November 30, 2010, 06:02:37 PM
Hey, I resemble that remark! I'm an old white guy with wrinkly balls, and played in the late 70's early 80's. I don't shoot underhanded, but it isn't too tough to more than 50 percent, even as an old fart.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: hemmy on November 30, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
FT% is bad, but our FT rate is a much bigger concern.  IMHO.  <40 FTR is not very JYC-ish.

JYC died half way through last season
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 06:38:47 PM
FT% is bad, but our FT rate is a much bigger concern.  IMHO.  <40 FTR is not very JYC-ish.

JYC died half way through last season

How so?
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Kat Kid on November 30, 2010, 07:20:04 PM
FT% is bad, but our FT rate is a much bigger concern.  IMHO.  <40 FTR is not very JYC-ish.

Denis.  Seriously.  Denis.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Kat Kid on November 30, 2010, 07:20:38 PM
FT% is bad, but our FT rate is a much bigger concern.  IMHO.  <40 FTR is not very JYC-ish.

Jamar and Curt too.  But Denis.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 08:22:24 PM
Interesting point KK; made me think about FTA per game (a much more significant BB talking point than FT%).

Clemente/Sutton are both missed (3.6/3.3 FTA/game is quite a bit) AND the big returners (Pullen, Samuels, Kelly) are all shooting fewer FTs per game than last year.  They combine to shoot 5 fewer FTs per game.

Pullen - 5.0 to 6.7; decrease of 1.7
Samuels - 3.7 to 5.6; decrease of 1.9
Kelly - 3.5 to 4.9; decrease of 1.4

Granted, some are shooting more, namely McGruder.
McGruder - 2.0 to .7; increase of 1.3
JHR - 2.1 to .9; increase of 1.2
Russell - 1.3 to .3; increase of 1
Irving - 1.2 to .6; increase of .6

Judge has stayed the same at 1.7.

Then you have the significant newcomers; Asprilla at 1.9 and Spradling at 1.7.

So probably to get to more JYC-like numbers we'll need more attacking from Pullen, Samuels, and Kelly (of course you've got to play to get fouled), continued increases from McGruder and hopefully Judge, and likely more attempts from Asprilla and Spradling. 
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: gatoveintisiete on November 30, 2010, 08:30:07 PM
Interesting point KK; made me think about FTA per game (a much more significant BB talking point than FT%).

Clemente/Sutton are both missed (3.6/3.3 FTA/game is quite a bit) AND the big returners (Pullen, Samuels, Kelly) are all shooting fewer FTs per game than last year.  They combine to shoot 5 fewer FTs per game.

Pullen - 5.0 to 6.7; decrease of 1.7
Samuels - 3.7 to 5.6; decrease of 1.9
Kelly - 3.5 to 4.9; decrease of 1.4

Granted, some are shooting more, namely McGruder.
McGruder - 2.0 to .7; increase of 1.3
JHR - 2.1 to .9; increase of 1.2
Russell - 1.3 to .3; increase of 1
Irving - 1.2 to .6; increase of .6

Judge has stayed the same at 1.7.

Then you have the significant newcomers; Asprilla at 1.9 and Spradling at 1.7.

So probably to get to more JYC-like numbers we'll need more attacking from Pullen, Samuels, and Kelly (of course you've got to play to get fouled), continued increases from McGruder and hopefully Judge, and likely more attempts from Asprilla and Spradling. 







Ksu__fan just killin' it today, well done :cheers:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sys on November 30, 2010, 08:57:14 PM
um, clemente had a very low ft rate.  so, that's completely wrong in every possible way.



carry on.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 09:03:02 PM
um, clemente had a very low ft rate.  so, that's completely wrong in every possible way.



carry on.

Clemente/Sutton didn't approach Pullen/Samuels/Kelly in FD/40, but the combined loss is still significant.  As I said, not as significant as Pullen/Samuels/Kelly not drawing as many fouls so far this year, but still a factor in our reduced FTA/game.  Clemente/Sutton did combine for almost 7 FTA/game, I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sys on November 30, 2010, 09:11:10 PM
I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".

i meant mr. kk.  you were just more diplomatic than me in refuting his point.


i like kenpom's ftrate a lot more than fta for ft rate stats though (because it's better).
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 09:13:48 PM
I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".

i meant mr. kk.  you were just more diplomatic than me in refuting his point.


i like kenpom's ftrate a lot more than fta for ft rate stats though (because it's better).

Don't disagree with this.  I do think FTA/game is easier for people to "see and understand" though, especially to get them away from stupid FT% talking points.  More tangible numbers than FTrate to look at on paper for most, but yes, raw FTA/game is somewhat flawed.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on November 30, 2010, 09:14:15 PM
I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".

i meant mr. kk.  you were just more diplomatic than me in refuting his point.


i like kenpom's ftrate a lot more than fta for ft rate stats though (because it's better).

especially considering the high standard deviation in the distribution for minutes played by key team members
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on November 30, 2010, 09:15:36 PM
I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".

i meant mr. kk.  you were just more diplomatic than me in refuting his point.


i like kenpom's ftrate a lot more than fta for ft rate stats though (because it's better).

especially considering the high standard deviation in the distribution for minutes played by key team members

caused by tiny sample size of games played
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: nicname on November 30, 2010, 09:53:57 PM
CK and Jamar shot a ton of FTs last year and made around 61% of them. 
CK and Jamar aren't getting as many minutes thus far (small sample size) and thus aren't getting to the line as much. Their combined Ftrate is down slightly but not enought to make a huge difference roughly one FT a game. They are still hitting around 61% as a tandem.
Keep in mind that Jamar and Curt have had reduced minutes this year.

Jake and Denis combined to shoot slightly over 10 Fts a game last year and made nearly 80% between them.
Jake Martavious and Spradling are shooting slightly over 7 Fts a game combined and making 66% between them.  Jake himself is shooting much worse than last year, and the MArt/sprad combo is worse than Denis (spads is money, tav is 1-7)
Jake has also had reduced minutes this year.

Not having Sutton is hurting a bit as well, and we all know that Dom was the junkiest of JYC's.



Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Kat Kid on November 30, 2010, 10:30:15 PM
I don't think that's insignificant or makes my point "wrong in every possible way".

i meant mr. kk.  you were just more diplomatic than me in refuting his point.


i like kenpom's ftrate a lot more than fta for ft rate stats though (because it's better).

I think our pg play has probably impacted this.  It is hard to pinpoint (tempo the same, a/fgm the same) and kenpom does not have individual stats up yet, but I think our ball movement has not been as good at getting guys to the rim.  The increased minutes of McGruder (and the lack of consistent minutes among the bigs) and our increased focus on he or tay shooting a corner three instead of rotating or driving the baseline has lead to the decrease.  Considering we are shooting about the same from 3 (and I think that could improve if Pullen can be off the ball more) this may be somewhat a philosophy in response to our players.  But I'm sure Frank would like guys getting to the line more and making their ft.

So, in closing, I think our inability to penetrate and to move the ball has hurt our ability to force fouls inside.

I also think it is early and Frank being Frank with the bigs in his doghouse is skewing some of this down.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on November 30, 2010, 10:39:31 PM
[I think our pg play has probably impacted this.  It is hard to pinpoint (tempo the same, a/fgm the same) and kenpom does not have individual stats up yet, but I think our ball movement has not been as good at getting guys to the rim.  The increased minutes of McGruder (and the lack of consistent minutes among the bigs) and our increased focus on he or tay shooting a corner three instead of rotating or driving the baseline has lead to the decrease.  Considering we are shooting about the same from 3 (and I think that could improve if Pullen can be off the ball more) this may be somewhat a philosophy in response to our players.  But I'm sure Frank would like guys getting to the line more and making their ft.

So, in closing, I think our inability to penetrate and to move the ball has hurt our ability to force fouls inside.

In addition to this, we've relied on the 3PT line more and the FT line less.  Last year our breakdown for %-age of points from 3PT/2PT/FT was 25.8/49.3/24.9.  This year we're at 30.2/53.4/16.4.  In addition, our 3PA/FGA this year is 35.5 compared to 32.1 last year.

Our eFG% has increased slightly, our TO% has gotten slightly worse, our OR% has stayed the same, and our FTR has decreased significantly, leading to a lower offensive efficiency.  But as others have pointed out, it is a pretty small sample size so far, and our 3PT shooting has in part made up for the deficiencies in FTA.  I'm sure that will even out some as the season goes along and Kelly/Samuels are more consistent and Pullen plays more minutes.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: swish1 on December 01, 2010, 01:59:13 AM
[I think our pg play has probably impacted this.  It is hard to pinpoint (tempo the same, a/fgm the same) and kenpom does not have individual stats up yet, but I think our ball movement has not been as good at getting guys to the rim.  The increased minutes of McGruder (and the lack of consistent minutes among the bigs) and our increased focus on he or tay shooting a corner three instead of rotating or driving the baseline has lead to the decrease.  Considering we are shooting about the same from 3 (and I think that could improve if Pullen can be off the ball more) this may be somewhat a philosophy in response to our players.  But I'm sure Frank would like guys getting to the line more and making their ft.

So, in closing, I think our inability to penetrate and to move the ball has hurt our ability to force fouls inside.

In addition to this, we've relied on the 3PT line more and the FT line less.  Last year our breakdown for %-age of points from 3PT/2PT/FT was 25.8/49.3/24.9.  This year we're at 30.2/53.4/16.4.  In addition, our 3PA/FGA this year is 35.5 compared to 32.1 last year.

Our eFG% has increased slightly, our TO% has gotten slightly worse, our OR% has stayed the same, and our FTR has decreased significantly, leading to a lower offensive efficiency.  But as others have pointed out, it is a pretty small sample size so far, and our 3PT shooting has in part made up for the deficiencies in FTA.  I'm sure that will even out some as the season goes along and Kelly/Samuels are more consistent and Pullen plays more minutes.

if we had players that were capable of making ft's how important would this small change in style of play be?
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: jtksu on December 01, 2010, 08:52:10 AM
Guys- great job taking a sport and turning it into a math competition!  :nerds:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on December 01, 2010, 09:08:47 AM
Guys- great job taking a sport and turning it into a math competition!  :nerds:
:excited:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on December 01, 2010, 09:57:03 AM
Love these.

Quote
Free throws are huge for two reasons. First, they speak to a team's mental toughness. These are free points. Most mediocre high school teams can shoot at least 70%. I believe every player on our team this year is capable of shooting at least that well. Mentally tough teams/players shoot a good percentage. Let's have some accountability and not make excuses by saying it's OK to be poor FT shooters because we shoot them a lot.

Secondly, they are huge because they can 'save' a team when they have bad nights in other areas of the game. They can bail you out in other words. As KSU_Fan and Wichita_Cat have pointed out, MU can point to several valid reasons why they lost last night. However, they nail all the free throws late and all those reasons (bad D all night, dumb fouls, etc.) are moot because they would have won.

Go ask Memphis fans if free throw % matters. They shoot 70% in 2008 they win a national title.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: mcmwcat on December 01, 2010, 10:07:14 AM
ASK MEMPHIS IF FREE THROWS MATTER!!!
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: slimz on December 01, 2010, 10:36:31 AM
Love these.

Quote
Free throws are huge for two reasons. First, they speak to a team's mental toughness. These are free points. Most mediocre high school teams can shoot at least 70%. I believe every player on our team this year is capable of shooting at least that well. Mentally tough teams/players shoot a good percentage. Let's have some accountability and not make excuses by saying it's OK to be poor FT shooters because we shoot them a lot.

Secondly, they are huge because they can 'save' a team when they have bad nights in other areas of the game. They can bail you out in other words. As KSU_Fan and Wichita_Cat have pointed out, MU can point to several valid reasons why they lost last night. However, they nail all the free throws late and all those reasons (bad D all night, dumb fouls, etc.) are moot because they would have won.

Go ask Memphis fans if free throw % matters. They shoot 70% in 2008 they win a national title.


Nice find, _FAN.

Free throws are not fracking "free points."  "Free points" would be if when you got fouled, they automatically added 2 or 3 points to your team's score.  Or even if you got to dunk the ball or shoot a layup, it would be closer to "free points."  Free throws are shot from 15 feet away from the basket.  After you've been running up and down the court and banging away.  Let's take some of those "mediocre high school teams" and let them bang away against Nolan Smith and the Plumlees for a while and then see how well they shoot from the line.  

That being said, sure, there are still plenty of D-I players who can shoot free throws better than our guys who get out there and bang away, too. (Duke comes to mind.)  Guess what:  Duke are better shooters than our guys.  Maybe the tards haven't noticed, but it's not like Jamar or Wally and Freddie are consistently hitting 13 foot J's out there.  They'll get hot and hit a couple in a row every now and then...which is the same way they shoot FTs.  Curtis was our best jump shooting big last year; unsurprisingly, he also led our bigs in FT %.  No one should be shocked that Dom was a bad FT shooter after watching his shooting from the floor.  FT's are about muscle memory and coordination, two things that some of our bigs lack.

If you're distressed by our FT %, then I would suggest you encourage Frank to recruit higher-rated players, who generally are not only as athletic as our guys but are also better shooters.  Or be glad when Frank runs guys like Dom off.  

 :ck:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on December 01, 2010, 10:38:02 AM
Love these.

Quote
Free throws are huge for two reasons. First, they speak to a team's mental toughness. These are free points. Most mediocre high school teams can shoot at least 70%. I believe every player on our team this year is capable of shooting at least that well. Mentally tough teams/players shoot a good percentage. Let's have some accountability and not make excuses by saying it's OK to be poor FT shooters because we shoot them a lot.

Secondly, they are huge because they can 'save' a team when they have bad nights in other areas of the game. They can bail you out in other words. As KSU_Fan and Wichita_Cat have pointed out, MU can point to several valid reasons why they lost last night. However, they nail all the free throws late and all those reasons (bad D all night, dumb fouls, etc.) are moot because they would have won.

Go ask Memphis fans if free throw % matters. They shoot 70% in 2008 they win a national title.


Nice find, _FAN.

Free throws are not shazbot!ing "free points."  "Free points" would be if when you got fouled, they automatically added 2 or 3 points to your team's score.  Or even if you got to dunk the ball or shoot a layup, it would be closer to "free points."  Free throws are shot from 15 feet away from the basket.  After you've been running up and down the court and banging away.  Let's take some of those "mediocre" high school teams and let them bang away against Nolan Smith and the Plumlees for a while and then see how well they shoot from the line. 

That being said, sure, there are still plenty of D-I players who can shoot free throws better than our guys who get out there and bang away, too. (Duke comes to mind.)  Guess what:  Duke are better shooters than our guys.  Maybe the tards haven't noticed, but it's not like Jamar or Wally and Freddie are consistently hitting 13 foot J's out there.  They'll get hot and hit a couple in a row every now and then...which is the same way they shoot FTs.  Curtis was our best jump shooting big last year; unsurprisingly, he also led our bigs in FT %.  No one should be shocked that Dom was a bad FT shooter after watching his shooting from the floor.  FT's are about muscle memory and coordination, two things that some of our bigs lack.

If you're distressed by our FT %, then I would suggest you encourage Frank to recruit higher-rated players, who generally are not only as athletic as our guys but are also better shooters.  Or be glad when Frank runs guys like Dom off. 

 :ck:

Well said.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Sugar Dick on December 01, 2010, 10:47:45 AM
This thread commands a huge amount of :did not read:


Summary:
As long as we make more FT's than the other team, I don't give a sh*t how many we take or what percent go in.  Unfortunately right now, we are making less than the other team, so it's a serious problem.

I think the problem is more "who" is shooting them, rather than "why" they aren't going in.

Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 01, 2010, 11:08:07 AM
332 Grambling 6 1-5 79 145 54.5
333 Kansas St. 6 5-1 75 141 53.2

334 St. Peter's 5 2-3 44 91 48.4
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Harry Dunne on December 01, 2010, 11:28:44 AM
332 Grambling 6 1-5 79 145 54.5
333 Kansas St. 6 5-1 75 141 53.2

334 St. Peter's 5 2-3 44 91 48.4


correction:

347   Kansas State   85   162   .525
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/free-throws/sort/freeThrowPct/count/321 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/free-throws/sort/freeThrowPct/count/321)

DEAD MOTHAFUCKIN LAST!
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sys on December 01, 2010, 12:26:09 PM
do free throws attract stupidity, or are stupid people attracted to free throws?
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on December 01, 2010, 12:32:43 PM
do free throws attract stupidity, or are stupid people attracted to free throws?

Both.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 01, 2010, 12:33:26 PM
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: pissclams on December 01, 2010, 12:56:47 PM
Guys- great job taking a sport and turning it into a math competition!  :nerds:

frank loves math, he used to teach it, you know.  he knew this thread would start up if he had the team suck at free throws and wanted goEMAW bbs'n to remain at an elite level.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: slimz on December 01, 2010, 02:20:02 PM
do free throws attract stupidity, or are stupid people attracted to free throws?

It's one of the most accessible "plays" in sports for the average person.  Since they can hit 7-10 in their driveway, they think anyone should be able to, in any situation.

Next time someone throws that one up, I'm going to tell them to get all their neighbors together in their driveway, then promise each of their neighbors $10 per missed free throw, then run around their block as fast as they can, then shoot a 1 & 1 and see how they do.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: EMAWzified on December 01, 2010, 03:07:48 PM
I'm down with this but have some concerns that all the analysis aside FTs aren't distributed evenly throughout the game and that other teams can influence that distribution in crunch time. We were OK at end games last year because Denis and Jake owned the ball and got to the line. Need others players to help Jake in that role this year. Obvious candidates are McGruder, Spradling and Irving. Right now, I don't have a lot of confidence in two of those players.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: nicname on December 01, 2010, 03:08:39 PM
Quick bit of info about nicname.  I missed 12 FT's in a row during freshman basketball game action as a member of the MHS Lions JV/Freshman bball squad.  
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on December 01, 2010, 03:18:19 PM
I'm down with this but have some concerns that all the analysis aside FTs aren't distributed evenly throughout the game and that other teams can influence that distribution in crunch time. We were OK at end games last year because Denis and Jake owned the ball and got to the line. Need others players to help Jake in that role this year. Obvious candidates are McGruder, Spradling and Irving. Right now, I don't have a lot of confidence in two of those players.

McGruder and Irving will both end up much better than they are shooting now; I'd guess both will be around 70% from the line for the season.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 01, 2010, 05:45:21 PM
Nothing brings out the hypersensitive goemawtards and the "everything will be okay . . . whatever Frank says is fine by me" suck dicks like pointing out how badly K-State shoots FT's.   In between rubbing it out over the latest K-State Basketball poster, you clutch your little emawtard dolls tight and pray to the flying spaghetti monster that FT shooting doesn't cost K-State a huge game this year.


Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Kat Kid on December 01, 2010, 05:55:56 PM
Nothing brings out the hypersensitive goemawtards and the "everything will be okay . . . whatever Frank says is fine by me" suck dicks like pointing out how badly K-State shoots FT's.   In between rubbing it out over the latest K-State Basketball poster, you clutch your little emawtard dolls tight and pray to the flying spaghetti monster that FT shooting doesn't cost K-State a huge game this year.




no.  it might.  like it really could a problem as is.  But #1 it is not kstate's biggest problem  #2 it is not any team's biggest problem and #3 I am almost certain that it gets better.  If kstate is not shooting 60-65% by early Conference season with % of points from ft not at least 20% then you will be right.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 01, 2010, 06:00:25 PM
It started out bad last year and it got better . . . however this year it has started out woeful, and "better" for this team at this juncture is just slightly above extremely mediocre.  With the whistle happy Big 12 refs on the horizon K-State had better get to extremely mediocre pretty fast.    Right now, many of the guys on the team look absolutely terrified at the FT line, they're not rimming out, they're clanks.

Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Kat Kid on December 01, 2010, 06:32:25 PM
It started out bad last year and it got better . . . however this year it has started out woeful, and "better" for this team at this juncture is just slightly above extremely mediocre.  With the whistle happy Big 12 refs on the horizon K-State had better get to extremely mediocre pretty fast.    Right now, many of the guys on the team look absolutely terrified at the FT line, they're not rimming out, they're clanks.



take that filth to big 12 warzone.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: T42YS on December 01, 2010, 06:35:11 PM
<-----------Would rather be last in the nation in FT's than run defense
<-----------Is rough ridin' stupid
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: WillieWatanabe on December 01, 2010, 06:35:40 PM
Nothing brings out the hypersensitive goemawtards and the "everything will be okay . . . whatever Frank says is fine by me" suck dicks like pointing out how badly K-State shoots FT's.   In between rubbing it out over the latest K-State Basketball poster, you clutch your little emawtard dolls tight and pray to the flying spaghetti monster that FT shooting doesn't cost K-State a huge game this year.


It started out bad last year and it got better . . . however this year it has started out woeful, and "better" for this team at this juncture is just slightly above extremely mediocre.  With the whistle happy Big 12 refs on the horizon K-State had better get to extremely mediocre pretty fast.    Right now, many of the guys on the team look absolutely terrified at the FT line, they're not rimming out, they're clanks.


 :confused:
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sys on December 01, 2010, 06:39:23 PM
2, 6, 3, 4, 5.  numbers of teams that shot under 60% in each of the last 5 years.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: sonofdaxjones on December 01, 2010, 06:51:00 PM
2, 6, 3, 4, 5.  numbers of teams that shot under 60% in each of the last 5 years.

Right now our "Bigs" are shooting a combined 43% from the line.    The only one close to 60% is JaSam.

Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on December 01, 2010, 08:00:08 PM
do free throws attract stupidity, or are stupid people attracted to free throws?

I have to vote the latter. For an untrained basketball eye its one of the first parts of the action you can understand. There are no moving parts, like running an offense in the half court. You can focus on the shooter exclusively.

Plus, old white guys who could never play above the rim can blather on about how well Gene Keady or Ernie Barrett could shoot from the line and how a Tex Winter led team would never have shot this poorly. Or they can bitch about how they could shoot 70%, which I tend to think is just an overstatement of their abilities.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: EMAWzified on December 02, 2010, 10:53:09 AM
Old farts would know Gene Keady played football at K-State.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: bakerman on December 02, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
Last night on Sports Center, they said that Duke shot 45% from the free throw line for the year.

LOL at you tards thinking us shooting poorly from the line wasn't the plan all along....
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on December 05, 2010, 04:55:53 PM
Old farts would know Gene Keady played football at K-State.

Yes, you're right about this one.
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: kso_FAN on March 16, 2011, 12:12:32 PM
Wasn't worthy of a new thread, but worthy of a mention.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=676

About halfway down Gasaway talks free throw shooting. And includes this chart which records the overall FT% of NCAA teams from 1948 until now.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sonicscentral.com%2Fimages%2F110316_gasaway.jpg&hash=2aa4e0c4db47e181fa9d0568ff7e782491da82bd)

Quote
But the serene knowledge that I could travel back in time to the Truman administration and kick my similarly-aged grandfather’s butt in a free throw contest has always made me provisionally skeptical of laments that things aren’t like they were in the good old days.