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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: steve dave on November 22, 2010, 07:40:12 AM
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Seems like a lot of rumblings/grumblings. So, if true, thoughts? I don't mind him as a DC with Snyds. Don't really want him as HC at any point. :dunno:
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what's the point? :dunno:
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Is Leavitt related to Bo? They seem to look the same.
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what's the point? :dunno:
:dunno:
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ITS LEAVITT!!!!!!
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what's the point? :dunno:
He might hit some kids and get us some publicity? :pbj:
If true, I guess I am ok with it. Would much rather wipe out the entire staff and the old man and have Currie conduct a real search. Why can't we do this? Why do we have to make things so fracking difficult? I will tell you one thing. I am going to lose it when he is hired and they say at the press conference something along the lines of "We brought Jim home, or Family member returns to Manhattan". LOSE IT!!!!
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what's the point? :dunno:
The coaching staff is going to get a little better every year. When Snyder turns 92, we will finally have a 10 win season.
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I believe on of there "sources" is Badass Attorney Cat.
but I have heard that jim leavett is going to be at ksu next year as an assistant coach. legal paperwork is the only thing holding things up. We will have to wait and see. This coming from a legal ksu man from wichita who has close ties to ksu.
Where's our info BAC?
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Seem like truly great news, if true. Would obviously be a MASSIVE upgrade, right?
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Seem like truly great news, if true. Would obviously be a MASSIVE upgrade, right?
He seems like the kind of coach kids run through a brick wall for, or get thrown threw by the coach. Either way they are going to go threw a brick wall. :ksu:
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Good. We need a DC that will hit players for sucking. I wish he would have been here this year to slap the crap out of Hrebec for being so damn bad.
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
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I'm certain I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind Jim Leavitt as HCIW. Smoke and mirrors in a shitty conference or not, he had a good couple years at USF. Plus, he hit a kid - almost seems junkyard caty to me.
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I'm certain I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind Jim Leavitt as HCIW. Smoke and mirrors in a shitty conference or not, he had a good couple years at USF. Plus, he hit a kid - almost seems junkyard caty to me.
Leavitt is fine as a fall back in case everyone else we want says no, but he should not be the first choice.
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I agree, and I could be underestimating Currie here, but I just don't "see" K-State conducting a bonafide coaching search. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, the shirt tucks' affinity for the Snyder Coaching Tree will probably be a determining factor. Aside from BV, the next best realistic choice is probably Leavitt.
I guess I'm saying that Leavitt wouldn't be a disaster hire, and at this point in my KSU football fandom, "not a disaster" is good enough for me.
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I sorta want the Buffs interim head coach right now.
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I really think ADJC/UPKS will actually go out and get someone outside of the Snyder coaching tree. I have quite a bit of confidence in the two of them to do that, no whether or not it's going to be RP 2.0 that's a different question.
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what's the point? :dunno:
It appears the point of LHC Bill Snyder is to try and make the program appear as shiny as possible. Kind of like when you’re trying to buy a new car and you try to trade in your old car....so you clean your old one really, really well thinking that if you just polish it up a bit, the dealership won’t recognize that your 2001 Lincoln Towncar has over 150K miles on it, has had to have it’s engine overhauled, and has terrible gas mileage.
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
:frown: I am trying to be positive here....but yeah you're probably right.
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Guys, don't be a bunch of pussies. We know Leavitt is a great coach. Plus, he hits players. Could you imagine someone like Carson playing for him and having a bad game? :emawkid:
I'm ALL IN.
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Leavitt basically built USF from nothing, so that's gotta be a :thumbsup:, right? Now why he kinda started being mediocre, I don't know (anger management issues??? lost some of the people around him???). I don't want to do real research until there is verifiable evidence that this is happening. But whatever the case, it has to be an upgrade from Cosh, and it shows that Snyd's is finally willing to kick some1 out (or the admin is willing to force him to do so). I'd be on board with this, I guess. :popcorn:
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Leavitt basically built USF from nothing, so that's gotta be a :thumbsup:, right? Now why he kinda started being mediocre, I don't know (anger management issues??? lost some of the people around him???). I don't want to do real research until there is verifiable evidence that this is happening. But whatever the case, it has to be an upgrade from Cosh, and it shows that Snyd's is finally willing to kick some1 out (or the admin is willing to force him to do so). I'd be on board with this, I guess. :popcorn:
At the very least, Leavitt is a very good DC. If we could somehow get him as a DC and land another quality HC, we could be very good again. Plus, having an experienced HC (in the DC role) would make me much more open to hiring a coach with no HC experience. If we got a great offensive mind like a Malzahn here, with a Leavitt defense...
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Ok with him as DC but I hope he is allowed to do his own staffing
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Ok with him as DC but I hope he is allowed to do his own staffing
Mo needs to go. I'm partial to Joe Bob but it's kinda hard to think he needs to stay. (Then again, the only actual DE we have on the roster is a tremendous FP.) I think Burns has done well for us and would like to see him retained. (Plus, I think his son will be a very good safety for us next year.)
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
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I don't know if this has anything relevant to the conversation - but it was at least a comment from Leavitt on pending job situations.
http://www.footballscoop.com/news/2871-jim-leavitt-gary-patterson-mike-leach-talk-about-jobs
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No way OB would do this or let this get out before the end of the year. Not gonna happen.
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No way OB would do this or let this get out before the end of the year. Not gonna happen.
If he made a move, it would be shortly after the UNT game. No one said Snyder let this info get out. It's pretty damn near impossible for info like this to not leak out these days. Maybe contact has been made but no official statement will be made until next week. At least I really hope that is the case.
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LHOFBAMFHC LHC Bill Snyder Leavitts Major Fines Against Opposition O's!
:love:
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
What are you saying? What he did pre-2003 is irrelevant?
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
What are you saying? What he did pre-2003 is irrelevant?
Where those even his DLs? If they were, he did a hell of a job. Our DLs used to be amazing.
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
What are you saying? What he did pre-2003 is irrelevant?
Where those even his DLs? If they were, he did a hell of a job. Our DLs used to be amazing.
Of course they were his DL's. We should not fire Mo.
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:users: <-- Me enjoying Rusty's excellent BBs'ing
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
What are you saying? What he did pre-2003 is irrelevant?
Where those even his DLs? If they were, he did a hell of a job. Our DLs used to be amazing.
Of course they were his DL's. We should not fire Mo.
27 yrs of coaching only interior defensive linemen. That's weird. And that's not including his time at UTEP.
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i think Leavitt as DC for Kansas State Men's Football team would be fantastic. as HCIW ... wouldn't mind I guess. at least we'd be able to see if his time at DC would produce any kind of recruiting bump.
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getting crazy mad and screaming the balls off of his players works for Frank Martin right? Might as well give him a few years :drool:
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people that don't want leavitt are the people who think we have a chance at Patterson or BV.
AND I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
:frown: I am trying to be positive here....but yeah you're probably right.
It all depends on how long Snyder stays.
I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches) is not a bad thing. Having more than two HCs in the span of four or five years can be hell on a roster, especially one that has a scholarship count down in the lower 70's. Even if all Snyder's able to do is win seven games a year and go to four lower tiered bowls in the next five years or so, that's probably where we need to go given that we've spent the majority of this decade being a subpar football program.
The hiring of Leavitt does a few things. One, it immediately brings some level of credibility to the defense. Two, it brings a competent former head coach on board to assist Snyder in the day-to-day operations in the actual 'coaching' areas Sean can't help with. You have a guy that legitimately knows what he's doing helping out. Even if it's not much, there's something to be said for bringing a guy on board with nearly a hundred career wins as a head coach and a nearly 60% winning percentage. In the event your 70 year old coach steps down unexpectedly with health issues, you'd be hard pressed to find many programs out there with a guy as decorated as Jim Leavitt sitting there in the bullpen as an interim head coach. Finally, Leavitt has a lot of connections in Florida from his years of recruiting, and he's a known quantity. Even with "the situation", which is still kind of ambiguous, he has ties to all kinds of local high schools, and USF was known for recruiting JUCOs as well, so he's got ties there too. He'd most likely be an adequate recruiter or at least be able to open doors if we were to hire one.
Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
In five years, there will be tens of millions of dollars of improvements to the football stadium, the conference situation will most likely be stabilized one way or another, and the roster will probably be at least a little more balanced. If Snyder steps down at that time, we'd be a much more attractive option than we are now, which would in turn give us a better chance of hiring a better coach. Leavitt, in the short term, possibly makes that a reality. We just have to hope that at that time our AD (whoever it is) realizes our fan base primarily consists of mouth-breathing idiots and ignores their clamoring for one of "Snyder's guys".
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Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
Snyder will never be a figurehead coach. You are also assuming that recruiting will improve or remain stable over the next 4 years. A decline in recruiting will take place before too long, even if Leavitt is added to the band of losers Snyder has decided to surround himself with.
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Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
Snyder will never be a figurehead coach. You are also assuming that recruiting will improve or remain stable over the next 4 years. A decline in recruiting will take place before too long, even if Leavitt is added to the band of losers Snyder has decided to surround himself with.
What are you basing this off of?
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Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
Snyder will never be a figurehead coach. You are also assuming that recruiting will improve or remain stable over the next 4 years. A decline in recruiting will take place before too long, even if Leavitt is added to the band of losers Snyder has decided to surround himself with.
What are you basing this off of?
Snyder's age. The older he gets, the harder it will be to recruit.
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Mo needs to go.
Why? He put together some awesome DL's
Over a decade ago.
What are you saying? What he did pre-2003 is irrelevant?
It gets more irrelevant by the year, yes. It isn't like our DL has just been average in recent years. It's been complete dogshit.
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
:frown: I am trying to be positive here....but yeah you're probably right.
It all depends on how long Snyder stays.
I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches) is not a bad thing. Having more than two HCs in the span of four or five years can be hell on a roster, especially one that has a scholarship count down in the lower 70's. Even if all Snyder's able to do is win seven games a year and go to four lower tiered bowls in the next five years or so, that's probably where we need to go given that we've spent the majority of this decade being a subpar football program.
The hiring of Leavitt does a few things. One, it immediately brings some level of credibility to the defense. Two, it brings a competent former head coach on board to assist Snyder in the day-to-day operations in the actual 'coaching' areas Sean can't help with. You have a guy that legitimately knows what he's doing helping out. Even if it's not much, there's something to be said for bringing a guy on board with nearly a hundred career wins as a head coach and a nearly 60% winning percentage. In the event your 70 year old coach steps down unexpectedly with health issues, you'd be hard pressed to find many programs out there with a guy as decorated as Jim Leavitt sitting there in the bullpen as an interim head coach. Finally, Leavitt has a lot of connections in Florida from his years of recruiting, and he's a known quantity. Even with "the situation", which is still kind of ambiguous, he has ties to all kinds of local high schools, and USF was known for recruiting JUCOs as well, so he's got ties there too. He'd most likely be an adequate recruiter or at least be able to open doors if we were to hire one.
Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
In five years, there will be tens of millions of dollars of improvements to the football stadium, the conference situation will most likely be stabilized one way or another, and the roster will probably be at least a little more balanced. If Snyder steps down at that time, we'd be a much more attractive option than we are now, which would in turn give us a better chance of hiring a better coach. Leavitt, in the short term, possibly makes that a reality. We just have to hope that at that time our AD (whoever it is) realizes our fan base primarily consists of mouth-breathing idiots and ignores their clamoring for one of "Snyder's guys".
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.threadbombing.com%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2F16a5tuo.jpg.gif&hash=3a6f86aee99647fed341b3efc9396c89f160c6c3)
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I really, really want Leavitt to be the next head coach at KSU. But you people and everyone at GPC are out of your rough ridin' minds if you think he's going to come back here and work as an assistant for Snyder. None of you understand what former assistants think of Snyder.
I present Exhibit #1:
There's an epilogue to Stoops's association with Kansas State. Stoops says Snyder was angry that Stoops got not only his brother Mike but also defensive assistants Mark Mangino and Brent Venables to join him at Oklahoma, essentially cleaning out the K-State defensive staff (and their hard-won recruiting contacts). Neither Bob nor Mike has talked to Snyder since. "I don't know if anybody ever leaves Coach Snyder on good terms," says Mike. "He simply doesn't accept that you would leave. But then again, there's no having a personal relationship with him even when you're there."
Bob isn't looking back. "The fact is I gave everything I had to Kansas State when I was there," he says. "Now I'm obligated to do the same thing for Oklahoma. Period."
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019450/3/index.htm#ixzz163Rvi9Ni
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I really, really want Leavitt to be the next head coach at KSU. But you people and everyone at GPC are out of your effing minds if you think he's going to come back here and work as an assistant for Snyder. None of you understand what former assistants think of Snyder.
I present Exhibit #1:
There's an epilogue to Stoops's association with Kansas State. Stoops says Snyder was angry that Stoops got not only his brother Mike but also defensive assistants Mark Mangino and Brent Venables to join him at Oklahoma, essentially cleaning out the K-State defensive staff (and their hard-won recruiting contacts). Neither Bob nor Mike has talked to Snyder since. "I don't know if anybody ever leaves Coach Snyder on good terms," says Mike. "He simply doesn't accept that you would leave. But then again, there's no having a personal relationship with him even when you're there."
Bob isn't looking back. "The fact is I gave everything I had to Kansas State when I was there," he says. "Now I'm obligated to do the same thing for Oklahoma. Period."
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019450/3/index.htm#ixzz163Rvi9Ni
damn. those were the days. seriously, i miss that sh*t.
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I really, really want Leavitt to be the next head coach at KSU. But you people and everyone at GPC are out of your rough ridin' minds if you think he's going to come back here and work as an assistant for Snyder. None of you understand what former assistants think of Snyder.
I present Exhibit #1:
There's an epilogue to Stoops's association with Kansas State. Stoops says Snyder was angry that Stoops got not only his brother Mike but also defensive assistants Mark Mangino and Brent Venables to join him at Oklahoma, essentially cleaning out the K-State defensive staff (and their hard-won recruiting contacts). Neither Bob nor Mike has talked to Snyder since. "I don't know if anybody ever leaves Coach Snyder on good terms," says Mike. "He simply doesn't accept that you would leave. But then again, there's no having a personal relationship with him even when you're there."
Bob isn't looking back. "The fact is I gave everything I had to Kansas State when I was there," he says. "Now I'm obligated to do the same thing for Oklahoma. Period."
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1019450/3/index.htm#ixzz163Rvi9Ni
That article is ten years old bro.
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And for everyone that thinks Snyder is God, you need to be reminded what happened after all those guys left. KSU had a good year in 2000 where they only lost two games, both to Bob. And KSU had a good year in 2003 when they lost a few games that they shouldn't have, but had the phenomenal game against OU in the Big XII Championship.
That's about it.
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That article is ten years old bro.
You think something happened in the last 10 years that changed their mind?
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That article is ten years old bro.
You think something happened in the last 10 years that changed their mind?
Yeah. Ten rough ridin' years happened. I've never heard Stoops say anything but positive things about Snyder. They obviously were pissed at each other shortly after Bobby Stoops raided his cupboard but grown men don't tend to stay mad at each other for nothing for ten years. And yeah, Snyder has struggled since he lost his all-star staff of assistant coaches. You name one program in the country that wouldn't go downhill after losing Stoopsx2, Veneables, Leavitt, Mangino, Bielema, Bennett, etc. You retards claim that Snyder is at fault for his current crop of shitty coaches yet fail to give him props for molding the most impressive crop of coaches in recent history. Guess it was just some sort of huge coincidence all those guys coached for Snyder though, right?
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That article is ten years old bro.
You think something happened in the last 10 years that changed their mind?
Yeah. Ten effing years happened. I've never heard Stoops say anything but positive things about Snyder. They obviously were pissed at each other shortly after Bobby Stoops raided his cupboard but grown men don't tend to stay mad at each other for nothing for ten years. And yeah, Snyder has struggled since he lost his all-star staff of assistant coaches. You name one program in the country that wouldn't go downhill after losing Stoopsx2, Veneables, Leavitt, Mangino, Bielema, Bennett, etc. You retards claim that Snyder is at fault for his current crop of cacty coaches yet fail to give him props for molding the most impressive crop of coaches in recent history. Guess it was just some sort of huge coincidence all those guys coached for Snyder though, right?
I agree. The hate no longer exists.
Snyder has sucked balls since 2003. It has gotten fairly annoying, as a big-time cat football fan.
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
:frown: I am trying to be positive here....but yeah you're probably right.
It all depends on how long Snyder stays.
I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches) is not a bad thing. Having more than two HCs in the span of four or five years can be hell on a roster, especially one that has a scholarship count down in the lower 70's. Even if all Snyder's able to do is win seven games a year and go to four lower tiered bowls in the next five years or so, that's probably where we need to go given that we've spent the majority of this decade being a subpar football program.
The hiring of Leavitt does a few things. One, it immediately brings some level of credibility to the defense. Two, it brings a competent former head coach on board to assist Snyder in the day-to-day operations in the actual 'coaching' areas Sean can't help with. You have a guy that legitimately knows what he's doing helping out. Even if it's not much, there's something to be said for bringing a guy on board with nearly a hundred career wins as a head coach and a nearly 60% winning percentage. In the event your 70 year old coach steps down unexpectedly with health issues, you'd be hard pressed to find many programs out there with a guy as decorated as Jim Leavitt sitting there in the bullpen as an interim head coach. Finally, Leavitt has a lot of connections in Florida from his years of recruiting, and he's a known quantity. Even with "the situation", which is still kind of ambiguous, he has ties to all kinds of local high schools, and USF was known for recruiting JUCOs as well, so he's got ties there too. He'd most likely be an adequate recruiter or at least be able to open doors if we were to hire one.
Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
In five years, there will be tens of millions of dollars of improvements to the football stadium, the conference situation will most likely be stabilized one way or another, and the roster will probably be at least a little more balanced. If Snyder steps down at that time, we'd be a much more attractive option than we are now, which would in turn give us a better chance of hiring a better coach. Leavitt, in the short term, possibly makes that a reality. We just have to hope that at that time our AD (whoever it is) realizes our fan base primarily consists of mouth-breathing idiots and ignores their clamoring for one of "Snyder's guys".
could have just compared the current state of KSU to the USA going into Iraq. We're here, we shouldn't be, & pulling out too early is completely irresponsible.
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[/quote]
could have just compared the current state of KSU to the USA going into Iraq. We're here, we shouldn't be, & pulling out too early is completely irresponsible.
[/quote]
Does this mean we get to see OBZ decked out in uniform on a carrier deck saluting mission accomplished?
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Delete and start again wetwillie.
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That article is ten years old bro.
You think something happened in the last 10 years that changed their mind?
Yeah. Ten rough ridin' years happened. I've never heard Stoops say anything but positive things about Snyder. They obviously were pissed at each other shortly after Bobby Stoops raided his cupboard but grown men don't tend to stay mad at each other for nothing for ten years. And yeah, Snyder has struggled since he lost his all-star staff of assistant coaches. You name one program in the country that wouldn't go downhill after losing Stoopsx2, Veneables, Leavitt, Mangino, Bielema, Bennett, etc. You retards claim that Snyder is at fault for his current crop of shitty coaches yet fail to give him props for molding the most impressive crop of coaches in recent history. Guess it was just some sort of huge coincidence all those guys coached for Snyder though, right?
How does Snyder having good assistants forever ago equate to him being excused for crap coaches now? Yeah, he had a fuckawesome staff in 98. It's still his fault for keeping shitty coaches afterwards. Nobody expects him to be able to find another group of young coaching talent that can bring us to the point of a NC out of nowhere, but the current staff is not acceptable. If Leavitt comes back as DC then that's a step in the right direction, but it's still Bill's fault for bringing back damn near the same staff that drove this thing into the ground in the first place.
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:users: <-- Me enjoying Rusty's excellent BBs'ing
OH! I KNOW! RUSTY IS AMAZING!! in this thread.
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That article is ten years old bro.
You think something happened in the last 10 years that changed their mind?
Yeah. Ten rough ridin' years happened. I've never heard Stoops say anything but positive things about Snyder. They obviously were pissed at each other shortly after Bobby Stoops raided his cupboard but grown men don't tend to stay mad at each other for nothing for ten years. And yeah, Snyder has struggled since he lost his all-star staff of assistant coaches. You name one program in the country that wouldn't go downhill after losing Stoopsx2, Veneables, Leavitt, Mangino, Bielema, Bennett, etc. You retards claim that Snyder is at fault for his current crop of shitty coaches yet fail to give him props for molding the most impressive crop of coaches in recent history. Guess it was just some sort of huge coincidence all those guys coached for Snyder though, right?
Snyder may have been pissed at Stoops. I don't think it ever went the other way. I agree with you that I never heard any of those guys say anything but positive things about Snyder other than the petty bitching and moaning about 18 hours a day and never getting a day off and having to work on Memorial Day, etc. They have a lot of respect for Snyder.
But would they ever come back and work for him?
No.
It's like going through boot camp. You do it. You give your best effort. You respect your drill sergeant. You appreciate what he taught you. You pray to God that you never have to go back and do it again.
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Why would you have to go back to basic training? Do they make the retards do it more than once?
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:goodbyecruelworld:
Why would you have to go back to basic training? Do they make the retards do it more than once?
unless your del Miller,Chris cosh, Joe Bob, Smith, dimel.....
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Don't really understand that last post.
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As long as he's not HCIW I think its good news for the short term future of the program.
i agree, but you know leavitt is thinking "yahtzee" regardless of title if he does end up coming here. i mean, the defense couldn't really be any worse, so provided he improves it over a couple of years and acts crazy on the sideline, he'll endear himself to 90% of people to the point that they'll be asking for him to be the next coach. i mean crap...people wanted phil bennett for a while as head coach after he left. is the short term gain of a better defense worth the long term probability that he would end up as the next head coach?
:frown: I am trying to be positive here....but yeah you're probably right.
It all depends on how long Snyder stays.
I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches) is not a bad thing. Having more than two HCs in the span of four or five years can be hell on a roster, especially one that has a scholarship count down in the lower 70's. Even if all Snyder's able to do is win seven games a year and go to four lower tiered bowls in the next five years or so, that's probably where we need to go given that we've spent the majority of this decade being a subpar football program.
The hiring of Leavitt does a few things. One, it immediately brings some level of credibility to the defense. Two, it brings a competent former head coach on board to assist Snyder in the day-to-day operations in the actual 'coaching' areas Sean can't help with. You have a guy that legitimately knows what he's doing helping out. Even if it's not much, there's something to be said for bringing a guy on board with nearly a hundred career wins as a head coach and a nearly 60% winning percentage. In the event your 70 year old coach steps down unexpectedly with health issues, you'd be hard pressed to find many programs out there with a guy as decorated as Jim Leavitt sitting there in the bullpen as an interim head coach. Finally, Leavitt has a lot of connections in Florida from his years of recruiting, and he's a known quantity. Even with "the situation", which is still kind of ambiguous, he has ties to all kinds of local high schools, and USF was known for recruiting JUCOs as well, so he's got ties there too. He'd most likely be an adequate recruiter or at least be able to open doors if we were to hire one.
Snyder as a figurehead HC can go on for several years. At least another four while Tate is here assuming he doesn't have to do as much. And with Leavitt here, the odds of that happening are probably pretty good.
In five years, there will be tens of millions of dollars of improvements to the football stadium, the conference situation will most likely be stabilized one way or another, and the roster will probably be at least a little more balanced. If Snyder steps down at that time, we'd be a much more attractive option than we are now, which would in turn give us a better chance of hiring a better coach. Leavitt, in the short term, possibly makes that a reality. We just have to hope that at that time our AD (whoever it is) realizes our fan base primarily consists of mouth-breathing idiots and ignores their clamoring for one of "Snyder's guys".
good post. too bad many posters here are in mouth breathing self felicitating mode.
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I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches)
Re-read this part of your post out loud and see if any random people around you walk up and punch you in the face.
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I'll probably be in the minority on this board, but the longer Snyder stays (assuming he surrounds himself with decent coaches)
Re-read this part of your post out loud and see if any random people around you walk up and punch you in the face.
Which part? The longer he stays being a good thing or the part about him hiring decent coaches?
The former is dependent on the latter. If he doesn't hire better coaches, the sooner he leaves the better. If he hires better coaches, how long he stays is inconsequential provided he plans on making at least another 3-5 year commitment.
We can't afford another coaching change right now. We're way too deep in the hole from a roster perspective to rock the boat right now. We're still a good 3-5 years from even coming close to floating around the 80-85 range in terms of numbers. I don't agree that he should have taken the job two years ago, but it is what it is. He's here now, and he better see it through. And if he wants to protect his legacy, he needs to start making some changes to his staff or else this whole thing is going to go down the toilet and fast.
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If we're 3-5 years from getting to 85 scholarships, changing coaches couldn't set us back all that far.
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It would most likely hurt us pretty bad. You're always going to have players defect when a new coach takes over and if we're already about 15 players under limits...
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If we're 3-5 years from getting to 85 scholarships, changing coaches couldn't set us back all that far.
Yes, it will. The last class actually was a pretty full allotment, and this class looks like we'll sign roughly 27-28. By my count, that would elevate the numbers to roughly 76-78 depending on whether or not Darious Thomas and Courtney Thompson become academically eligible again.
This next year's senior class is somewhat small (around 21). If they actually put 25 men on the roster next year, we're looking at possibly getting back to around 79-80. After that, assuming some of the JUCOs redshirt next year, we could get into the lower 80's in three years. However, that's assuming no defections, academic casualties, career ending injuries, etc. and we sign the full allotment and get them eligible and on campus, which never happens.
We need another three to five years. If Snyder hires a decent defensive coordinator and replaces some dead weight (i.e. Miller, Latimore, and Cosh) with decent recruiters, we will be good enough to limp along the next few years while they improve the stadium and get this program back into a better position.
You'd have to believe that there are a lot of coaches out there who would look at our roster and dismiss this job sight on seen because of how long it will take to get it back up to par from a numbers perspective alone. Snyder started this mess back in the earlier part of the last decade, and he should be the one to clean it up.
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If we're 3-5 years from getting to 85 scholarships, changing coaches couldn't set us back all that far.
Yes, it will. The last class actually was a pretty full allotment, and this class looks like we'll sign roughly 27-28. By my count, that would elevate the numbers to roughly 76-78 depending on whether or not Darious Thomas and Courtney Thompson become academically eligible again.
This next year's senior class is somewhat small (around 21). If they actually put 25 men on the roster next year, we're looking at possibly getting back to around 79-80. After that, assuming some of the JUCOs redshirt next year, we could get into the lower 80's in three years. However, that's assuming no defections, academic casualties, career ending injuries, etc. and we sign the full allotment and get them eligible and on campus, which never happens.
We need another three to five years. If Snyder hires a decent defensive coordinator and replaces some dead weight (i.e. Miller, Latimore, and Cosh) with decent recruiters, we will be good enough to limp along the next few years while they improve the stadium and get this program back into a better position.
You'd have to believe that there are a lot of coaches out there who would look at our roster and dismiss this job sight on seen because of how long it will take to get it back up to par from a numbers perspective alone. Snyder started this mess back in the earlier part of the last decade, and he should be the one to clean it up.
so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6? OMG, the horror. Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year. :ohno:
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I could see maybe 1 or 2 more years but 5 or 6 is lunacy.
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so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6? OMG, the horror. Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year. :ohno:
I get what you're saying, but the next coach is going to have the same problem Prince had (aside from being a horrible coach), and that's fixing Snyder's mess while listening to the entire fan base blame the new guy for all of the problems.
It's tough being the guy after "the guy", and it's worse when "the guy" left you a mess. KSU fans aren't patient, they only think one man can win at this school, and when that one man leaves the next guy hamstrung, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better. Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline. There's too much at stake.
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I could see maybe 1 or 2 more years but 5 or 6 is lunacy.
I personally think Snyder is going to want to coach Tate until he graduates. No evidence on that, but just a hunch. There's no guarantee that Sean will be retained during the next regime, and Bill probably realizes the best way to keep this little "family moment" going is to stick around for another four years.
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so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6? OMG, the horror. Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year. :ohno:
I get what you're saying, but the next coach is going to have the same problem Prince had (aside from being a horrible coach), and that's fixing Snyder's mess while listening to the entire fan base blame the new guy for all of the problems.
He won't have Snyder undermining him at every opportunity.
We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better. Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline. There's too much at stake.
Too much at stake? Like 8th place in a new Big 12 that Snyder might provide? I would hate to see that slip away. :ohno:
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Is there anything credible about this Leavitt speculation? Like, anything at all?
Where is this crap coming from?
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Is there anything credible about this Leavitt speculation? Like, anything at all?
Where is this crap coming from?
Sources say that this is coming from "Every Single Poster on GPC".
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so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6? OMG, the horror. Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year. :ohno:
I get what you're saying, but the next coach is going to have the same problem Prince had (aside from being a horrible coach), and that's fixing Snyder's mess while listening to the entire fan base blame the new guy for all of the problems.
He won't have Snyder undermining him at every opportunity.
We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better. Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline. There's too much at stake.
Too much at stake? Like 8th place in a new Big 12 that Snyder might provide? I would hate to see that slip away. :ohno:
Better to be 8th with a decent hire away from something more than becoming Washington State.
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so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6? OMG, the horror. Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year. :ohno:
I get what you're saying, but the next coach is going to have the same problem Prince had (aside from being a horrible coach), and that's fixing Snyder's mess while listening to the entire fan base blame the new guy for all of the problems.
He won't have Snyder undermining him at every opportunity.
We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better. Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline. There's too much at stake.
Too much at stake? Like 8th place in a new Big 12 that Snyder might provide? I would hate to see that slip away. :ohno:
Better to be 8th with a decent hire away from something more than becoming Washington State.
Seriously, if we hire a coach with no BCS (or even FBS) experience that was only slightly above average at the FCS level, we'll be Washington State no matter what our scholarship count is. Being afraid of hiring Paul Wulff is just a dumb reason to keep Bill around for 5 more years.
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We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better. Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline. There's too much at stake.
maybe it's just me, but I saw this coach and this coaching staff roster build off 11 win seasons and the result was '04 and '05 and a roster that everyone said would need to be improved when prince got here. So, NO THANK YOU.
the short answer is that grandpa makes our fan base feel comfortable. that's it. he can do no wrong because the majority of our fan base can't think critically about snyder whatsoever.
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Seriously, if we hire a coach with no BCS (or even FBS) experience that was only slightly above average at the FCS level, we'll be Washington State no matter what our scholarship count is. Being afraid of hiring Paul Wulff is just a dumb reason to keep Bill around for 5 more years.
That's not what I'm saying. You can go take that chance in a few years. Don't take that chance right now.
I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls. Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.
But our chances will be better if (A) we have a roster that's not lacking 15 scholarship players, (B) we've just completed a massive stadium/facilities upgrade, and (C) we've gone to a few bowls in the past few seasons. A decent coach can look at that and say, "Yeah, I can win there."
I'm not saying that you're wrong. If I could go back and wave a magic wand, I would make it so we never re-hired Snyder. But we're here, it is what it is, and we need to find a way out of this mess. I just don't think hitting the eject button right now is the right way to go.
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maybe it's just me, but I saw this coach and this coaching staff roster build off 11 win seasons and the result was '04 and '05 and a roster that everyone said would need to be improved when prince got here. So, NO THANK YOU.
the short answer is that grandpa makes our fan base feel comfortable. that's it. he can do no wrong because the majority of our fan base can't think critically about snyder whatsoever.
I really don't want to give the impression that I'm a "Snyder can do now wrong" person. Truthfully, I think there's a lot of things he's done wrong. However, in response to point number one, the major issue Snyder had during his first tenure, especially at the end, was his penchant for putting too many resources into specific recruits and not having back-up plans, or not spending enough time with the backup plans. He also was a very late adopter, and you can probably argue that he was a non-adopter, of the 'early offer', which left our pool of recruits slimmed down at the end, which left the best athletes out there being mainly borderline qualifiers. Our stance was to sign a ton of these guys, especially JUCOs, and they'd never step foot on campus, meaning our recruiting classes would basically get cut by 25-30% by the time camp rolled around.
All things considered, I think Snyder has rectified a lot of that strategy, and we're actually doing a decent job of filling scholarships. Now, I'll hold ultimate judgement on that until February, but it's pretty clear his strategy has changed. Only one player in last year's class didn't qualify (Williams), which meant that, including transfers, we pretty put at least 23-25 players on scholarship last year. My math may be a little fuzzy, but my count was 24. Which is a dramatic improvement from before.
Again, I'm with you guys on the major point which is Snyder wasn't the best play two years ago. I also agree with you that our fan base struggles with critical thinking, and their inability to accept a different coach is detrimental to the long-term health of the program. But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football. Suffering through three of four years of meh and swinging for the fences is a better play than killing this now and swinging for the fences because you may have something tangible to offer in three or four more years as opposed to a whole bunch of crap right now.
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Couldn't ADJC just trick OBZ into thinking we were bringing in Leavitt as DC with HCIW tag then once our stadium upgrades are complete show them both the door in search of a new coaching staff?
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I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls. Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.
Most people that aren't the equivalent of Paul Wulff could do that. And they are. Everywhere. Eject button. Now.
(Interestingly, Wulff was hand-picked by Bill Doba, and Bill Doba was hand-picked by Mike Price. LESSONS, PEOPLE!)
But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football.
Do you have any real, modern examples of this?
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we should spend whatever it takes to get mike leach and then add an additional 30% on top of that with an agreement that he has to pay half of it back if he doesn't stay at least eight years.
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I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls. Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.
Most people that aren't the equivalent of Paul Wulff could do that. And they are. Everywhere. Eject button. Now.
(Interestingly, Wulff was hand-picked by Bill Doba, and Bill Doba was hand-picked by Mike Price. LESSONS, PEOPLE!)
But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football.
Do you have any real, modern examples of this?
I never said that I wanted anyone on the current staff, nor do I care who Snyder picks. I'm perfectly content, and I would actually prefer, the next coach to be someone completely unaffiliated with LHC Bill Snyder. So, if you're lumping me in with the "Snyder's infallible" crowd, please do not do so.
I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era. Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program. Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.
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I'd donate a few more dollars just to watch leavitt bitch slap and choke a few of the rough ridin' little pussies on this team!
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I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era. Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program. Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.
That's actually a pretty horrible example. They had a coach leave in the middle of probation, replaced him with a guy that had never coached college in his life, and won their division in year 2 and national title in year 3 after replacing the guy with zero college experience.
That's actually a good argument for not wasting your time with mediocrity.
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I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era. Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program. Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.
That's actually a pretty horrible example. They had a coach leave in the middle of probation, replaced him with a guy that had never coached college in his life, and won their division in year 2 and national title in year 3 after replacing the guy with zero college experience.
That's actually a good argument for not wasting your time with mediocrity.
It's a lot easier when you have millions upon millions to throw at a coach and can hire someone like Nick Saban.
I get where you're coming from, and in a way I agree. I like Daris' idea as well because I think KSU's best chance to land a great coach is going for a dude with a tarnished reputation that is just looking for a friendly place to land, so in my opinion, Mike Leach would be an amazing hire. But I think the odds of that happening are slim, and unless there's some sort of slam dunk out there that we'd most definitely walk away with, I think the best course of action is to keep the status quo for about 3-4 more years.
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How 'bout we just hire a good DC, and just kinda put feelers out for the next few years? If a slam dunk type of hire is available, we'd be silly not to snap him up. I'm not a huge fan of just hiring a new HC just for the sake of hiring a new HC. What if we miss on our first few targets and end up with a third or fourth tier hire? We don't absolutely have to hire a new HC right now. (I think we do absolutely have to hire a new DC right now though.). Leavitt would be nice to have on staff, especially if Snyder was to take a turn for the worse in the middle of a season. We could do much worse than to have Leaviit assume interim HC duties.
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How 'bout we just hire a good DC, and just kinda put feelers out for the next few years? If a slam dunk type of hire is available, we'd be silly not to snap him up. I'm not a huge fan of just hiring a new HC just for the sake of hiring a new HC. What if we miss on our first few targets and end up with a third or fourth tier hire? We don't absolutely have to hire a new HC right now. (I think we do absolutely have to hire a new DC right now though.). Leavitt would be nice to have on staff, especially if Snyder was to take a turn for the worse in the middle of a season. We could do much worse than to have Leaviit assume interim HC duties.
Well, Snyder is the head coach. He hires the coordinators. If no changes are made, we should fire the head coach. Even if changes are made, he should be on the hot seat next year without significant progress.
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I don't really have anything to add to the discussion other than I am in 100% agreement with Panjandrum... Not that I don't disagree with Rusty, I just don't believe we're Currently capable of a quality hire with the current state of KSU football.
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I would do almost anything to have Leavitt as our DC next year.
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I don't really have anything to add to the discussion other than I am in 100% agreement with Panjandrum... Not that I don't disagree with Rusty, I just don't believe we're Currently capable of a quality hire with the current state of KSU football.
Who could we realistically get after three years of mediocrity that we could not get now?
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Also- I would like to make sure that Sams and Tuggle are signed. If they get spooked and decommit, well, we are mumped.
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Just curious here, but what state do you guys think KSU football needs to be in for us to get a quality hire? Just get 6 wins and bowl games a few years in a row? We have won at least 5 games for 6 straight years now. Would winning just 1 more game per year for the next few years make this program that much more desirable? I can see the point about not having all of the scholarships filled, but would it be desirable for a new coach if most of the scholarship players he inherits are underclassmen?
I think that when the results on the field do not match the desired results (within reason), it's time to find a new coach. I don't think that Snyder has failed (yet) because he hasn't really had enough time to get those results. If the team is not better next year, it will be time for Snyder to move on.
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Total number of wins is one thing. Quality of players in the system is probably more important. No one wants to take over knowing their players suck ass and will lose them a ton of games for the next few years, especially considering the short timeframe they will be given to produce positive results. If we win 7 games next year and are capable of hanging with the majority of teams in the league, we would be attractive than we are this year. A guy like Fedora would look our current team and think: "eff that, my So. Miss team is better than that KSU team. I'll look elsewhere and go where I have a fair shot at winning."
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Why did we have to hire Prince? Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?
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I have no idea why we hired prince. Guess the binder was very impressive. And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.
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I have no idea why we hired prince. Guess the binder was very impressive. And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.
You wouldn't have argued that we should let Ron fill all of our open scholarships before we try to find a new coach, would you?
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What coach in his right mind would come to KSU after they fired their "Legendary" coach after a two year return? It doesn't matter how we see it, or how the boosters see it, The nation would see it as the "toughest coaching job in america"
eff, If KSU's savior, Bill rough ridin' Snyder, isn't good enough for the fans, Who is?
I sure as crap wouldn't take that job.
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I feel more confidant in Bill's ability to identify talent than Ron's. At least this team is beginning to actually look like a BCS group. I was getting a bit tired of the 6'7" 250 lbs ol guys and the 5'7" dbs and wrs.
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What coach in his right mind would come to KSU after they fired their "Legendary" coach after a two year return? It doesn't matter how we see it, or how the boosters see it, The nation would see it as the "toughest coaching job in america"
Probably the same ones that would come to KSU after our "savior" shows the nation that his ceiling is 7 wins and a shitty bowl. :dunno:
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Why did we have to hire Prince? Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?
No, he didn't, and I outlined some of the problems earlier in the thread.
There were two problems in place when the last coaching search occurred that would not presumably be in place in a few years:
1) We do not have a narcissistic megalomaniac University President that likes to play pseudo-AD
2) We will have facilities that are at least on par with many mid-level BCS schools
We hired Prince because that's what Wefald wanted, and what Wefald wanted is what was going to happen. There's not much more to say on that topic because that's just the way things worked then.
This goes beyond wins and losses. If Snyder is around, and he's going to bowls, the likely hood that donors will cough up money for the stadium upgrades and whatever else they have planned (practice facility?) is more likely than hiring a new guy where they may take a wait and see approach.
From the sounds of things, Schulz and Currie are about to go full tilt on a very aggressive stadium renovation, and that's most likely going to require some form of donations. If you're in their position, are you more likely to try and do that after you force out (either by firing or asking him to resign) the guy with his name on said stadium, or are you going to try and do the majority of the fund raising before you do that?
They have attendance numbers higher than they've had in years, they've got the man with his name on the stadium roaming the sidelines, and they're going to bowls. Why would they ever rock the boat when they're planning on embarking on what will probably be the most expensive upgrade in the history of the KSU athletic department?
I get what you're saying, Rusty, I really do. But it's a question of timing. It makes more sense, on a number of levels, to make a move a few years from now. There are way too many unknowns and risks to make a move right now.
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Why did we have to hire Prince? Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?
No, he didn't, and I outlined some of the problems earlier in the thread.
There were two problems in place when the last coaching search occurred that would not presumably be in place in a few years:
1) We do not have a narcissistic megalomaniac University President that likes to play pseudo-AD
2) We will have facilities that are at least on par with many mid-level BCS schools
We hired Prince because that's what Wefald wanted, and what Wefald wanted is what was going to happen. There's not much more to say on that topic because that's just the way things worked then.
This goes beyond wins and losses. If Snyder is around, and he's going to bowls, the likely hood that donors will cough up money for the stadium upgrades and whatever else they have planned (practice facility?) is more likely than hiring a new guy where they may take a wait and see approach.
From the sounds of things, Schulz and Currie are about to go full tilt on a very aggressive stadium renovation, and that's most likely going to require some form of donations. If you're in their position, are you more likely to try and do that after you force out (either by firing or asking him to resign) the guy with his name on said stadium, or are you going to try and do the majority of the fund raising before you do that?
They have attendance numbers higher than they've had in years, they've got the man with his name on the stadium roaming the sidelines, and they're going to bowls. Why would they ever rock the boat when they're planning on embarking on what will probably be the most expensive upgrade in the history of the KSU athletic department?
I get what you're saying, Rusty, I really do. But it's a question of timing. It makes more sense, on a number of levels, to make a move a few years from now. There are way too many unknowns and risks to make a move right now.
You're just making a series of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to shitty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.
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I have no idea why we hired prince. Guess the binder was very impressive. And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.
You wouldn't have argued that we should let Ron fill all of our open scholarships before we try to find a new coach, would you?
Ron essentially nailed his own coffin when he recruited 18 JUCOs in one class. That was so monumentally stupid on so many different levels that you couldn't trust him with any sort of roster management after that.
Snyder took 14 freshmen and sophomores in last year's class, and even if he doesn't get another commitment in this class, he's looking at 15 this year. I'm assuming he'll recruit another one or two, so he's making the commitment to bringing in prep players. That will help in terms of rebuilding the numbers. It's not enough, but it's a step in the right direction.
So, at this point, I'd argue that we let Snyder worry about filling the classes so long as he continues what he did last year of making a commitment to bring in more prep players with each class and making sure he's bringing in qualifiers.
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You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.
But removing him now isn't a good idea for all of the reasons I've stated in this thread.
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The current Pres and AD do give me much more confidence that a coaching search would be handled much better than the last time. I guess it boils down to eventually we're going to have to dive in and hire someone else. Tomorrow or 5 years down the road. Scary proposition, guess I need to just man up and realize it has to be done sooner, rather than later.
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You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.
By your logic, it will always be less risky to keep him a few more years, even five years from now. By then, it will be, "Snyder's finally got us to 85 scholarships, we can't afford to take a step back." or, "let's not waste these fancy new facilities on an unknown. Give Bill five more years to really build things up". It never stops.
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You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.
By your logic, it will always be less risky to keep him a few more years, even five years from now. By then, it will be, "Snyder's finally got us to 85 scholarships, we can't afford to take a step back." or, "let's not waste these fancy new facilities on an unknown. Give Bill five more years to really build things up". It never stops.
I can see where you would come up with that, but that's not what I think. I think there's a right time and a wrong time. I could come up with a set of criteria where I think it would be appropriate that he step down, but what it really boils down to is two things for me:
1) I'd like for the roster numbers to become a little more balanced, and I'd like to see us with at least 78-80 players on scholarship
2) I'd like for them to have the funding secured for the stadium renovations
My personal feeling is that this will take about three or four years.
We can go around and around on this like we already have, but we both agree that LHC Bill Snyder wasn't our first choice to replace Prince. We both agree that he's not a long-term solution. We also both agree that it's stupid to think only LHC Bill Snyder can win at Kansas State. The only point we differ on is the timing.
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I can see where you would come up with that, but that's not what I think. I think there's a right time and a wrong time. I could come up with a set of criteria where I think it would be appropriate that he step down, but what it really boils down to is two things for me:
1) I'd like for the roster numbers to become a little more balanced, and I'd like to see us with at least 78-80 players on scholarship
2) I'd like for them to have the funding secured for the stadium renovations
My point is, what do those two things gain for us that we don't have already? Do they get us a proven BCS head coach? No. Do they get us an elite non BCS coach (Peterson, Patterson, etc.)? No. Once you get past that tier and into BCS assistants and non-elite head coaches, it's somewhat of a crapshoot - you can end up with Gary Pinkel or Bob Stoops, or you could end up with Dan Hawkins.
When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?
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When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?
That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.
Regardless, Currie isn't going to fire Snyder. He can't, he won't, and if he does, he's just committed career suicide considering the way our fans deify Bill. Snyder has shown no indication that he's going to step down at the end of this year or has any interest in doing so, therefore, if hiring Jim Leavitt makes the team better while he's here, it's a good move. If he is here when Snyder retires, and he's a candidate to be the head coach, we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.
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When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?
That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.
Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.
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Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?
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When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?
That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.
Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.
I'm aware it's a crapshoot, but that's not the point. Gus Mahlzan is my favorite choice out there. I'd love to have him. If we could realistically get him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But that's not going to happen.
Snyder will be here next year. Jim Leavitt will most likely make the defense better. I'm for bringing in Jim Leavitt because I want the football team to get better now. As I said, we'll just have to deal with whatever happens at that time.
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Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?
Oh hell no, football will be over. OB will be laid out at mid field and the bowl filled with concrete............LHC Bill Snyder Family Stadium now LHC Bill Snyder Family Tomb.
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When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?
That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.
Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.
I'm aware it's a crapshoot, but that's not the point. Gus Mahlzan is my favorite choice out there. I'd love to have him. If we could realistically get him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But that's not going to happen.
Snyder will be here next year. Jim Leavitt will most likely make the defense better. I'm for bringing in Jim Leavitt because I want the football team to get better now. As I said, we'll just have to deal with whatever happens at that time.
I've read a few posters talk about Malzahn's lack of attainability, but I'm not sold on it. He didn't graduate* from a Div 1 school, so having him pull a Huggs is unlikely. Besides, Arkansas already passed on him for the head job. Kansas puts him closer to his home and in many cases nearer to the recruiting grounds he is most familiar with. Most of his targets and gets have been from Arkansas or Louisiana with Texas and Oklahoma sprinkled in. The guy seems to be a magnet for dual threat QB's, but I don't know if he would be able to retain his effectiveness in that area when faced with the task of running an entire program.
This is a big if, but if Leavitt can get this legal stuff wrapped up ASAP and hasn't damaged his ability to recruit then it is a win/win situation for him to DC here. Improved defense in the short term and plus any potential head coaching change in the future could stand a better chance of inheriting a decent defense.
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"Leavitt to Snyder"
:love:
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Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?
Oh hell no, football will be over. OB will be laid out at mid field and the bowl filled with concrete............LHC Bill Snyder Family Stadium now LHC Bill Snyder Family Tomb.
FWIW, Currie could generate more revenue by leasing BSFS out as mausoleum space.
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i don't want leavitt's grubby little mits anywhere near the fball program. he comes in and improves the defense a little bit and acts all crazy on the sideline and we go to a couple more bowl games and he talks about how great it is to be back in kansas and how much he's learned from LHC Bill Snyder and next thing you know... boom! we're stuck w/ runner up katpak head as our head fball coach. no thanks.
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You guys know that Leavitt is the plaintiff in his "legal troubles" right????
He's suing the school for wrongful termination (I think...), the complaint was made by him, not against him.
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You guys know that Leavitt is the plaintiff in his "legal troubles" right????
He's suing the school for wrongful termination (I think...), the complaint was made by him, not against him.
:confused:
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
o.m.g. :love:
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i think coach snyder knows a little more about what's best for the football team, the university, and the city than mr. kk does.
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Wooly and Tan Tom are 2 different people. Lol @ comparing Snyder to either one.
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Wooly had an amazing tan. People made fun of asbury's tan.
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
At first i was like: :surprised:
Then i was like: :runaway:
But now i'm: :lynchmob: :cheers: :gocho:
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/08/bobby-bowden-writes-about-being-forced-out-by-florida-state/1
I bet OBZ will be more fun to read
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LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
Saruman?
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
I'm hungry for ribs all a sudden.
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Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.
LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.
Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.
Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.
It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.
Mr. KK, I salute you sir. fantastic post. Bill, thanks for the memories, now GTFOOH!!! Don't make this difficult you selfish old bastard.
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vindication bump
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vindication bump
hey kk pretty sure we WON, so if you aren't happy your obviously a SQUAWK.
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vindication bump
hey kk pretty sure we WON, so if you aren't happy your obviously a SQUAWK.
even jt's going to wait for the bowl selection to take his victory lap. This was a resounding call to all reality based EMAW to wake up.
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vindication bump
eff it. Forget everything I said in this thread.
I'm with KK.