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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 03, 2010, 05:18:41 PM
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
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Doesn't congress control the "purse strings" so to say?
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
So lets hear it dummycrat. Increasing the debt is a great thing and has unemployment to 10%.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
So lets hear it dummycrat. Increasing the debt is a great thing and has unemployment to 10%.
Reading comprehension would be a good class to follow the civics class.
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its the fed. buying up a bunch of cac :users:
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
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Obama doesn't control monetary policy--that's the Fed Governors.
p.s. you sound like an idiot
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
Take an economics class.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
Take an economics class.
I took engg econ and got an A? :ck: Why don't you econ majors explain how printing $600 billion will help. It might me feel better.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
Take an economics class.
I took engg econ and got an A? :ck: Why don't you econ majors explain how printing $600 billion will help. It might me feel better.
CPI. Look up the last two years.
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It's debatable. It might not help much. The point is that it wasn't Obama's decision. Although it looks like inflation isn't a concern at this time.
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Zimbabwe.
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Zimbabwe.
Please provide the similar economics between the U.S. and Zimbabwe. Show your work.
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Are we gonna end up like Greece? The economy may collapse and its Bush's fault as much as it is Barry's. Right left paradigm at work here people. Martial law will be enacted and we get to go to FEMA camps! Fun!
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Are we gonna end up like Greece? The economy may collapse and its Bush's fault as much as it is Barry's. Right left paradigm at work here people. Martial law will be enacted and we get to go to FEMA camps! Fun!
I saw Bush on t.v. at the baseball game, looked like he was not doing much with fiscal policy.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
Take an economics class.
I took engg econ and got an A? :ck: Why don't you econ majors explain how printing $600 billion will help. It might me feel better.
It will lower long term bond rates which will give the should give a modest boost to the economy. The markets have reacted well to it in the last couple days.
To date, rapid inflation has never occurred while unemployment is high. The bigger concern is deflation. I've heard Gov. Brownback say that we are very lucky to have Bernanke as the Chair right now if that eases your conservative concerns.
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Obama is printing $600 billion (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39990450) just to have something to spend! Hello hyper inflation, goodbye dollar! :goodbyecruelworld:
Sure would be great if you Tea tards would take at least one civics class before talking.
The feds are buying worthless treasury bonds with printed money, what else do you need to know?
Take an economics class.
I took engg econ and got an A? :ck: Why don't you econ majors explain how printing $600 billion will help. It might me feel better.
It will lower long term bond rates which will give the should give a modest boost to the economy. The markets have reacted well to it in the last couple days.
To date, rapid inflation has never occurred while unemployment is high. The bigger concern is deflation. I've heard Gov. Brownback say that we are very lucky to have Bernanke as the Chair right now if that eases your conservative concerns.
That may have been true when products were produced in the US, but now that we are dependent on foreign goods, the weakened dollar will certainly increase inflation, especially oil. Look for $150 a barrel oil very soon, and an increasingly weak economy. Still think it's a bad move.
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Free Money and Banking Lesson:
The Fed and the Treasury are necessarily apart of one another although distinct in practice. The Fed can't implement QE unless there is a supply of bonds (issued by the Treas) to purchase. If the Fed fails, the whole banking system comes crashing down and the Treasury is bankrupt by virtue of being unable to sell bonds and therefore unable to meet its present maturing financial obligations (this concept is known as "liquidity").
QE is an "Accounting Fiction" because the Fed doesn't actually have cash to credit to the bank, it just makes a credit entry (debit to the bank) on its book which is backed by the "full faith" of the govt.
In this case the Fed is giving banks a credit (money on balance sheet) in exchange for shitty bonds (not just Treas Bonds this time, could be wrong) the bank currently owns and deposits with the Fed [Bank delivers bond to Fed, Fed credits cash to bank in amount of bond]. By having cash (which doesn't really exist b/c the Fed doesn't have any) on its balance sheet the bank has increased its reserves, which it can turn around and lend 10x the amount on (fractional banking). This is when the money is printed. The hope is that the banks will lend the money to people and not turn around and buy more bonds that aren't nearly as shitty. FYI- buying a bond is in essence making a loan (for the dumber posters on this board).
If too much money is dumped into the economy, rather than back to the Treasury in the form of purchasing less shitty bonds, inflation happens. To date this has not occurred because banks are too scared to lend money because they've had no idea what the democrat government was going to do with legislation and how it would effect the potential borrowers and themselves. With repubs soon in charge of the house (perhaps more importantly with Pelosi out), more certainty exists and there may be a stronger likelihood that banks lend. With all the cash already on the balance sheets from TARP and stimilus and all the new cash from this QE there could be hyperinflation. IMO, the only thing keeping inflation from occurring in the current environment is the banks own fear of unknown losses in their current portfolios which they will protect by hoarding cash.
Obama doesn't understand high school economics, let alone the fractional banking system, so I doubt he's intervening much more than what Geitner says he should do, which in and of itself is frightening.
Feel free to criticize and act like an bad person.
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
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Yep the Fed Dances With Match and Gasoline in hand . . . it could work out great, it could be the end . . . stay tuned.
Just in case I suggest you all go out and buy wagons and large bags to carry around the cash you'll need to buy a loaf of bread.
Just waiting for '06 to drop the austerity word and compare the U.S. economic machine both from a GDP and Debt Level to some piss ant country.
When the national debt exceeds annual GDP . . . what then?? Buy more printing presses for the treasury . . . put up a statue of Paul Krugman . . . what?? Tell the Chinese to pissoff??
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Yep the Fed Dances With Match and Gasoline in hand . . . it could work out great, it could be the end . . . stay tuned.
Just in case I suggest you all go out and buy wagons and large bags to carry around the cash you'll need to buy a loaf of bread.
Just waiting for '06 to drop the austerity word and compare the U.S. economic machine both from a GDP and Debt Level to some piss ant country.
When the national debt exceeds annual GDP . . . what then?? Buy more printing presses for the treasury . . . put up a statue of Paul Krugman . . . what?? Tell the Chinese to pissoff??
No need to. Republicans should have the economy booming again by late February right?
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
Good, I'm glad you know you're an idiot.
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jeffy and his gold bouillon get the last laugh indeed!
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
Just one thing, what industry do you see creating the most demand for new loans in the coming Republican paradise?
Good, I'm glad you know you're an idiot.
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
Just one thing, what industry do you see creating the most demand for new loans in the coming Republican paradise?
Good, I'm glad you know you're an idiot.
First of all, pffft
Second to answer the question: All of them except: a) guns & ammo, b) "green" energy :lol:
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
Just one thing, what industry do you see creating the most demand for new loans in the coming Republican paradise?
Good, I'm glad you know you're an idiot.
First of all, pffft
Second to answer the question: All of them except: a) guns & ammo, b) "green" energy :lol:
So the construction industry, which accounted for about 25 percent of the jobs in this country at it's peak in 2005 is magically going to start borrowing money again despite the incredibly amount of vacant homes and commercial real estate?
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I bet Sugar Dick is one of those people who thinks that a loan is a zero sum instrument since the bank records it as an asset and the borrower records it as a debt. Add them together and you get 0.
you're an idiot
Great argument sparky. I'm totally convinced.
Just one thing, what industry do you see creating the most demand for new loans in the coming Republican paradise?
Good, I'm glad you know you're an idiot.
First of all, pffft
Second to answer the question: All of them except: a) guns & ammo, b) "green" energy :lol:
So the construction industry, which accounted for about 25 percent of the jobs in this country at it's peak in 2005 is magically going to start borrowing money again despite the incredibly amount of vacant homes and commercial real estate?
Start a new thread
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You gave the banking lesson here, I'm asking where banks are going to get all these new customers from. You start a new thread.
Better yet, come up with some of the things you think Republicans will have accomplished by next November in regards to fixing the economy and we can make a wager.
I'll let you set the lines on:
Employment rate
GDP growth
Budget deficit
Come on, back up your opinions with some money.
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You gave the banking lesson here, I'm asking where banks are going to get all these new customers from. You start a new thread.
Better yet, come up with some of the things you think Republicans will have accomplished by next November in regards to fixing the economy and we can make a wager.
I'll let you set the lines on:
Employment rate
GDP growth
Budget deficit
Come on, back up your opinions with some money.
You're welcome (geez rude)
These questions you ask, while relevant, are attenuated from my lesson plan and the answers require speculation. I think you disagree with my statement that having a repub house will interject confidence and certainty into markets. As stated in my "banking lesson" that was my opinion, it is also an opinion shared almost universally in the financial world. I could be wrong, and you may want to talk about QE. It's just too hard to tell with you shooting questions out like some kid with a curios form of turrets.
If you want to start a thread on the topic, "what industries will benefit most from _______" you need to specify whether you want to talk about the new QE or repubs in the house.
If you want to start a thread on the topic, "what economic measures will improve most from _______" you need to specify whether you want to talk about the new QE or repubs in the house.
There a lot to discuss in each of the four possible thread topic. Could be interesting!
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I thought it was pretty obvious I was asking questions related to why you have the opinions you have.
You: X is my opinion
Me: Y and Z affect X.
You: ZOMG this is too confusing, start a new thread :runaway:
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Yep the Fed Dances With Match and Gasoline in hand . . . it could work out great, it could be the end . . . stay tuned.
Just in case I suggest you all go out and buy wagons and large bags to carry around the cash you'll need to buy a loaf of bread.
Just waiting for '06 to drop the austerity word and compare the U.S. economic machine both from a GDP and Debt Level to some piss ant country.
When the national debt exceeds annual GDP . . . what then?? Buy more printing presses for the treasury . . . put up a statue of Paul Krugman . . . what?? Tell the Chinese to pissoff??
No need to. Republicans should have the economy booming again by late February right?
Doubt it . . . but I love the logic, "You don't agree with everything this administration does, therefore you must be a hardcore Republican".
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Yep the Fed Dances With Match and Gasoline in hand . . . it could work out great, it could be the end . . . stay tuned.
Just in case I suggest you all go out and buy wagons and large bags to carry around the cash you'll need to buy a loaf of bread.
Just waiting for '06 to drop the austerity word and compare the U.S. economic machine both from a GDP and Debt Level to some piss ant country.
When the national debt exceeds annual GDP . . . what then?? Buy more printing presses for the treasury . . . put up a statue of Paul Krugman . . . what?? Tell the Chinese to pissoff??
No need to. Republicans should have the economy booming again by late February right?
Doubt it . . . but I love the logic, "You don't agree with everything this administration does, therefore you must be a hardcore Republican".
If the shoe fits. I mean I'm obviously a hardcore Democrat because I realize that government does serve a purpose.
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Who on here has ever said the government doesn't have a purpose . . . what is highly debatable is the purpose of the Fed . . . an entity unto itself. What is also highly debatable is a government that allows itself to spend trillions of dollars it doesn't really have.
I could post 15 different articles about what other countries are doing in light of what the Fed is doing, and there are multiple central bank administrators across the globe who are currently very pissed at the U.S. and what the Fed is doing (I guess they're all idiots as well). Like I said, the Fed is throwing stones at the nuclear weapon here . . . it may end up extremely well, or it may implode the economy.
"There are many costs and many risks" PIMCO CEO on Fed Easing 11/3/2010
"This not the solution . . . to jobs and economic growth" PIMCO CEO
"Fed is acting alone . . . not getting cooperation from the treasury and the rest of the world" PIMCO CEO
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Gold Prices-Record Highs
Oil-Headed UP
Wheat-UP
Corn-UP
Sugar-UP
Cotton-UP
Gas, clothes, food . . . all going to get more expensive. Fed unemployment numbers . . . staying the same. First time jobless claims . . . up.
More expensive to live . . . less money being made to pay for it.
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I heard this morning that with the new QE (I guess it's being called QE2), the Fed is now printing money faster than the US is borrowing it. Remarkable!!! :flush:
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Economists saying with this new $600 billion dumped on the economy, the dollar will be worth 20% less in two years. :horrorsurprise:
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Economists saying with this new $600 billion dumped on the economy, the dollar will be worth 20% less in two years. :horrorsurprise:
With the interest rate at near 0% we have all the inflation control we could ever need. And if we did experience 10% inflation it wouldn't be the worst we have had in the last 30 years. Not quite the Zimbabwe situation.
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Economists saying with this new $600 billion dumped on the economy, the dollar will be worth 20% less in two years. :horrorsurprise:
With the interest rate at near 0% we have all the inflation control we could ever need. And if we did experience 10% inflation it wouldn't be the worst we have had in the last 30 years. Not quite the Zimbabwe situation.
eff you Jimmy Carter
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If this has the intended effects on the dollar, it could certainly help out Wichita a great deal. (Highest % of GMP from exports in the nation.) :driving:
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
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Sarah Palin sat down with Todd on her porch and typed out a little essay on this issue. Turns out she thinks it's all Obama's fault, and he's ruining the economy/country. Quantitative Easing is definitely a fancy term and it means that the Fed is simply creating money OUT OF THIN AIR!!!!! :runaway:
I'm glad Sarah has spent so much time studying macroeconomic policy so she could author such a rational, cogent piece of prose on this issue.
Obama’s Clever Way to Punt the Tough Calls: Driving the Dollar Down
by Sarah Palin on Wednesday, November 10, 2010 at 10:15am
In his press conference on Monday, President Obama responded to critics of the Federal Reserve’s decision to start a new round of quantitative easing – a fancy term for printing money out of thin air. He claimed this move would drive up U.S. growth rates. He also warned that “the worst thing that could happen to the world economy, not just ours but the entire world’s economy is if we end up being stuck with no growth or very limited growth.”
The latter is certainly true. It would be a global disaster if the U.S. economy remained permanently stuck in the mud. But the same cannot be said of his claim that the Fed’s experiment in pump priming would automatically lead to increased economic growth. By the time this experiment is over, QE will make us queasy.
Will driving the dollar down in this way do anything to boost U.S. exports? The short answer is not really. A weaker dollar will temporarily boost exports by making our goods cheaper to sell; but inevitably other countries will respond in kind, triggering the kind of currency wars economists are warning us about. It’s precisely to prevent this scenario that World Bank President Robert Zoellick recently came out in favor of some new type of gold standard or “international reference point.”
Will QE2 then at least boost domestic investment? No, again. As I explained in my speech in Phoenix, the reason banks aren’t lending and businesses aren’t investing isn’t because of insufficient access to credit. There’s plenty of money around, it’s just that no one’s willing to spend it. Big businesses especially have been hoarding cash. They’re not expanding or adding to their workforce because there’s just too much uncertainty created by a lot of big government experiments that aren’t working. It’s the President’s own policies that are creating this uncertainty.
The President is an educated man. I would hope that he knows these things as well as you and I do. So why then, if he knows it won’t really boost our exports or our domestic investments, would he still come out in defense of this dangerous experiment? I think the most plausible answer has to do with the debt. As liberal economist Paul Krugman has explained, a little inflation goes a long way towards driving down the value of the enormous national debt Obama has run up. And the higher the inflation, the greater the likelihood he won’t have to take any of the tough decisions needed to bring the deficit back down. In other words, pushing inflation upwards means you can have your cake and eat it too. You can spend all you like and then make the bill disappear by driving down the value of the dollar – buying with one hand the debt your reckless spending is issuing with the other. No need to cut spending, folks, just run the printing presses. It’s a win-win scenario.
Or maybe not. Because I fear there will be plenty of losers if this really happens, not least the millions of Americans who’ll see the value of their incomes and savings eroded. As the chair of the President’s own Debt Reduction Task Force, former CBO director Alice Rivlin explained, this sort of policy is no good. Sooner or later – probably sooner rather than later – it will come back to bite us in the behind. Rivlin warned: “As our debt mounts, the risk grows that our creditors, especially foreign creditors who own half our debt, will lose confidence in our ability to get our house in order and will demand dramatically higher interest rates.” Obviously, that’s even more likely to happen when they figure out that the Fed is deliberately driving down the value of the dollars they already hold. When they do lose confidence, Rivlin explained, that will spell disaster for our economy, “derailing the economic recovery and ballooning the cost of servicing the federal debt.”
If the President was serious about getting the economy moving again, he’d stop supporting the Fed’s dangerous experiments with our currency and focus instead on what actually works: reducing government spending and boosting business investment through good old fashioned supply side reforms (cutting taxes and reducing overly burdensome regulations). Simply running the printing presses in order to avoid paying off your debts is no way for a great nation to behave.
- Sarah Palin
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . . :frown:
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . . :frown:
Yeah, they've got it great. :jerk:
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . . :frown:
Yeah, they've got it great. :jerk:
They own us.
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . . :frown:
Yeah, they've got it great. :jerk:
They own us.
Cheap, unregulated labor is great, as long as you aren't the one providing the labor.
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China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy
Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.
Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?
How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?
If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . . :frown:
Yeah, they've got it great. :jerk:
They own us.
Cheap, unregulated labor is great, as long as you aren't the one providing the labor.
Maybe they should pangea their country closer to Mexico. Boom times ahead!!!!
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!
Not as much as the United States. :users: :flush:
Everyone in this thread should probably start here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k) Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.
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You're worried what China thinks? The country that pours it's own currency into the market to peg the Yuan to the Dollar? Of course they're upset.. this means they have to be even more inflationary to keep their imports so high. There's a lot of reasons why other countries hate what we're doing, but it may be in our best interests.
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You're worried what China thinks? The country that pours it's own currency into the market to peg the Yuan to the Dollar? Of course they're upset.. this means they have to be even more inflationary to keep their imports so high. There's a lot of reasons why other countries hate what we're doing, but it may be in our best interests.
We have gotten ourselves into a situation in which we must care what China thinks. They could crush our economy. Granted, it would not be to their benefit at this point, but a trillion dollars in treasury bonds, or a portion there of, dumped on the market would not be good. They are in a better position to absorb the dramatic fall of the dollar than we are. Not saying they would do it, just that the threat is always there.
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!
Not as much as the United States. :users: :flush:
Everyone in this thread should probably start here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k) Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.
I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008. in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now. As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!
Not as much as the United States. :users: :flush:
Everyone in this thread should probably start here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k) Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.
I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008. in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now. As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.
Economies naturally correct themselves. The more intrusive the interference to stave off a correction, the harder that correction will hit.
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German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566
Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!
Not as much as the United States. :users: :flush:
Everyone in this thread should probably start here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k) Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.
I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008. in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now. As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.
Economies naturally correct themselves. The more intrusive the interference to stave off a correction, the harder that correction will hit.
Come on guys, Economies naturally correct themselves.
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Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked. I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right? What I don't know, can't hurt me!
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Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked. I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right? What I don't know, can't hurt me!
The thing you're forgetting? Economies naturally correct themselves. It just like does it!
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Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked. I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right? What I don't know, can't hurt me!
The thing you're forgetting? Economies naturally correct themselves. It just like does it!
I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.
:facepalm:
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Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked. I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right? What I don't know, can't hurt me!
The thing you're forgetting? Economies naturally correct themselves. It just like does it!
I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.
:facepalm:
It's what happens when you have a Keynesian father teaching you incorrect things your whole life. Don't blame KK. Blame dad.
Good news for KK is his dad probably voted somewhere in the country in the past couple elections.
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Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked. I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right? What I don't know, can't hurt me!
The thing you're forgetting? Economies naturally correct themselves. It just like does it!
I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.
:facepalm:
It's what happens when you have a Keynesian father teaching you incorrect things your whole life. Don't blame KK. Blame dad.
Good news for KK is his dad probably voted somewhere in the country in the past couple elections.
Even Keynes himself wouldn't deny that economies naturally correct themselves. Only poor, abused child, KK. :cry:
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Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum. That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode. It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.
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Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum. That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode. It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.
You do know they attempt to slow the economy down when it's "growing too fast" don't you? They tend to drag their feet on this one, but they do.
It's all about smoothing out the highs and the lows. The only problem is the Fed seems to have done more harm than good over the last 25 years or so.
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Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum. That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode. It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.
You do know they attempt to slow the economy down when it's "growing too fast" don't you? They tend to drag their feet on this one, but they do.
It's all about smoothing out the highs and the lows. The only problem is the Fed seems to have done more harm than good over the last 25 97 years or so.
FYP. Of course the Fed can't fix the head-up-your-ass tax & regulatory policies we have in this country so their ability to exert real influence is diminished daily.
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Economies naturally fix themselves? And I bet those supply and demand charts they showed you in high school are gospel too right?
Holy crap, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.
The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.
I'm yet to decide my stance on this particular subject but for the love of god please do not suffer the falsehoods of mathematically based economic theory. It just doesn't work.
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Economies naturally fix themselves? And I bet those supply and demand charts they showed you in high school are gospel too right?
Holy crap, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.
The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.
I'm yet to decide my stance on this particular subject but for the love of god please do not suffer the falsehoods of mathematically based economic theory. It just doesn't work.
Do you interpret the Constitution as literally and in such a strict constructionalist fashion?
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Of course economies correct themselves (if not mumped with too much). Take housing for example. There's too much of it right now. Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.
Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house.
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Holy cac, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.
The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.
this is an odd statement, seems like you're refuting the invisible hand while at the same time embracing it.
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Of course economies correct themselves (if not mumped with too much). Take housing for example. There's too much of it right now. Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.
Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house.
Policy has an impact on the economy? I thought they just corrected themselves?
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:facepalm:
Oh well, I knew it would be pointless. A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time. Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.
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:facepalm:
Oh well, I knew it would be pointless. A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time. Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.
A perfect market maintains equilibrium 100% of the time and never fluctuates. You're right. It doesn't exist. We are talking about natural corrections and not about perfection.
But thanks for tapping out.
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Of course economies correct themselves (if not effed with too much). Take housing for example. There's too much of it right now. Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.
Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house.
Policy has an impact on the economy? I thought they just corrected themselves?
I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.
:facepalm:
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Here's a fabulous example of how government involvement makes markets less efficient. I think we can say despite these inefficiencies and despite further government intervention the market has taken measures to CORRECTS ITSELF.
Copied out of the Wall Street Reform Bill
SEC. 1491. SENSE OF CONGRESS REGARDING THE IMPORTANCE OF
GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED ENTERPRISES REFORM TO
ENHANCE THE PROTECTION, LIMITATION, AND REGULATION
OF THE TERMS OF RESIDENTIAL MORTGAGE
CREDIT.
(a) FINDINGS.—The Congress finds as follows:
(1) The Government-sponsored enterprises, Federal
National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) and the Federal
Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac), were chartered
by Congress to ensure a reliable and affordable supply
of mortgage funding, but enjoy a dual legal status as privately
owned corporations with Government mandated affordable
housing goals.
(2) In 1996, the Department of Housing and Urban Development
required that 42 percent of Fannie Mae’s and Freddie
Mac’s mortgage financing should go to borrowers with income
levels below the median for a given area.
(3) In 2004, the Department of Housing and Urban Development
revised those goals, increasing them to 56 percent of
their overall mortgage purchases by 2008, and additionally
mandated that 12 percent of all mortgage purchases by Fannie
Mae and Freddie Mac be ‘‘special affordable’’ loans made to
borrowers with incomes less than 60 percent of an area’s
median income, a target that ultimately increased to 28 percent
for 2008.
(4) To help fulfill those mandated affordable housing goals,
in 1995 the Department of Housing and Urban Development
authorized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to purchase subprime
securities that included loans made to low-income borrowers.
(5) After this authorization to purchase subprime securities,
subprime and near-prime loans increased from 9 percent of
securitized mortgages in 2001 to 40 percent in 2006, while
the market share of conventional mortgages dropped from 78.8
percent in 2003 to 50.1 percent by 2007 with a corresponding
increase in subprime and Alt-A loans from 10.1 percent to
32.7 percent over the same period.
(6) In 2004 alone, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased
$175,000,000,000 in subprime mortgage securities, which
accounted for 44 percent of the market that year, and from
2005 through 2007, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased
approximately $1,000,000,000,000 in subprime and Alt-A loans,
while Fannie Mae’s acquisitions of mortgages with less than
10 percent down payments almost tripled.
(7) According to data from the Federal Housing Finance
Agency (FHFA) for the fourth quarter of 2008, Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac own or guarantee 75 percent of all newly
originated mortgages, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac currently
own 13.3 percent of outstanding mortgage debt in the
United States and have issued mortgage-backed securities for
31.0 percent of the residential debt market, a combined total
of 44.3 percent of outstanding mortgage debt in the United
States.
(8) On September 7, 2008, the FHFA placed Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac into conservatorship, with the Treasury
Department subsequently agreeing to purchase at least
$200,000,000,000 of preferred stock from each enterprise in
exchange for warrants for the purchase of 79.9 percent of
each enterprise’s common stock.
(9) The conservatorship for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
has potentially exposed taxpayers to upwards of
$5,300,000,000,000 worth of risk.
(10) The hybrid public-private status of Fannie Mae and
Freddie Mac is untenable and must be resolved to assure that
consumers are offered and receive residential mortgage loans
on terms that reasonably reflect their ability to repay the
loans and that
This is quite frightening. It's also the only place Fannie and Freddie are mentioned in this "reform" bill, other than in places where the law is sure to specifically exclude them from oversight.
For morons like Mr. KK after twelve digits is Trillions
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:facepalm:
Oh well, I knew it would be pointless. A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time. Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.
A perfect market maintains equilibrium 100% of the time and never fluctuates. You're right. It doesn't exist. We are talking about natural corrections and not about perfection.
But thanks for tapping out.
Tapping out? Your definition is wrong. Fascinating; though, that you declared yourself the winner of a contest that never existed.
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:facepalm:
Oh well, I knew it would be pointless. A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time. Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.
A perfect market maintains equilibrium 100% of the time and never fluctuates. You're right. It doesn't exist. We are talking about natural corrections and not about perfection.
But thanks for tapping out.
Tapping out? Your definition is wrong. Fascinating; though, that you declared yourself the winner of a contest that never existed.
"Oh well, I knew it would be pointless."
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As in discussing economics. Everyone has opinions set in stone on the subject. Nice try though, not even close to starting a contest.
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As in discussing economics. Everyone has opinions set in stone on the subject. Nice try though, not even close to starting a contest.
And opinions are a lot like assholes, kat kid is one.