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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: LickNeckey on October 12, 2010, 12:03:15 PM
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When reading and discussing politics recently my conservative breatheren have consistantly voiced their displeasure and concern with his policies. Most of this discussion seems to revolve around expansion of government and deficit spending and the impending catatstrophe each will generate. However upon reflection and analysis is it possible that the policies of George W. actually did more to expand the physical size and scope of governmental control and intrusion in to private lives than Obama has.
Consider:
Big Government: It is said that Obama is in support of Big Government but have his actions really done anymore to alter the size or scope of government than those of W? To me it would seem that the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and passing of No Child Left Behind and Patriot Act increased the size and scope of Government far more than any Obama policy has. Obamacare that everyone is so afriad of has taken place yet so that expansion can not be counted, and even if it is does not require a creation of any new federal agency to oversee. The plan simply states that americans must have insurance and companies larger than 50 people must provide insurance. To me this would be a benefit to the insurance industry and lead to a need for more agents and competition within the insurance industry.
Deficit Spending: George W inherited a budget surplus and in short order created a substantial deficit that was a hallmark of his presidency. With a fair amount of money being spent to create agencies, support new legislation, and pursue 2 wars. In contrast it would seem that much of Obama’s spending has not been on government programs/agencies but to fortify capitalism. Government Buyouts and loans, a process and precedent started by the Bush presidency, went to corporations that were in dire need of assistance in order to stay afloat. While much of the ARRA money was paid to civilian contractors to repair, replace, or improve infastructure across the nation. Also a great deal of increase in spending is tied to increased spending within medicare and unemployment due to the economic recession a reality that Obama did not create.
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Well I guess if you didn't like Bush, you probably shouldn't like Obama. Great point!
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I don't think you will get any arguments supporting Bush policies. Obama is Bush x10.
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I know that the perception is that Obama is Bush x10 but is there any fact to back it up?
I am not saying there isn't I am just not sure what it is?
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I know that the perception is that Obama is Bush x10 but is there any fact to back it up?
I am not saying there isn't I am just not sure what it is?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.heritage.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fobama_budget_deficit.jpg&hash=69c39e908f99ed01b8f733ab9cf3e7d7c8a4eb17)
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I know that the perception is that Obama is Bush x10 but is there any fact to back it up?
I am not saying there isn't I am just not sure what it is?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.heritage.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fobama_budget_deficit.jpg&hash=69c39e908f99ed01b8f733ab9cf3e7d7c8a4eb17)
BOOM, ROASTED
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I never said the deficits that are being incurred are smaller, please read again.
"In contrast it would seem that much of Obama’s spending has not been on government programs/agencies but to fortify capitalism. Government Buyouts and loans, a process and precedent started by the Bush presidency, went to corporations that were in dire need of assistance in order to stay afloat. While much of the ARRA money was paid to civilian contractors to repair, replace, or improve infastructure across the nation. Also a great deal of increase in spending is tied to increased spending within medicare and unemployment due to the economic recession a reality that Obama did not create."
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I never said the deficits that are being incurred are smaller, please read again.
"In contrast it would seem that much of Obama’s spending has not been on government programs/agencies but to fortify capitalism."
I'm not really sure what this means; it seems like an oxymoron. It would seem to me the only way to fortify capitalism is to let the weak companies fail so a stronger one can fill the hole in the marketplace, if there really is a need. Artificially propping up a failing company with borrowed money is foolish and has prolonged the pain for many years to come. JMO
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i agree however it seems to be a position that was supported by both parties, both presidents, and strategists across the political spectrum.
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dicklicky wants to hear "yes, Bush sucked" so he can trot around with his head a little higher after realizing that "the messiah" is a complete :flush:
oh, and one more thing... the leaders of the Bolshevik revolution were largely jooz! Damn those gulags sounded brutal! :horrorsurprise:
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If President Obama were trying to cut taxes, instead of raising taxes on the top 2%, no one from the right wing would give a sh*t about the budget. Where were all these right wing douchebags when Bush was invading Iraq and setting all-time records for budget deficit?
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If President Obama were trying to cut taxes, instead of raising taxes on the top 2%, no one from the right wing would give a sh*t about the budget. Where were all these right wing douchebags when Bush was invading Iraq and setting all-time records for budget deficit?
once again, deflect back to Bush. Since BO is, and has been in office for 21 month's now, what do you think about HIS budget deficit records? I mean seriously, he has all of these fantastic economists that claimed the unemployment rate wouldn't go over 8%... reality check... they missed it by 2%! Last time I checked, thats an EPIC fail! So lets hear it...
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What, specifically, did Bush spend money on that current Republicans wouldn't if they were in power? His medicare bill? Defense? :dunno:
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Democrats have controlled Congress for Five years . . how many times does that need to be said?
They got elected promising war extraction and fiscal responsibilty.
War Extraction: F-
Fiscal Responsiblity: F---
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Democrats have controlled Congress for Five years . . how many times does that need to be said?
They got elected promising war extraction and fiscal responsibilty.
War Extraction: F-
Fiscal Responsiblity: F---
President Obama is reducing the number of troops in Iraq to around 25,000 in the next year or so. As far as fiscal responsibility is concerned, typically governments spend money during a recession to increase domestic consumption. Also, if you want to decrease the budget deficit, you're going to have to raise taxes, which is why President Obama wants to raise taxes on the top 2%.
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nope already knew Bush sucked
point is he seems to have done much more to increase both the size and scope of spending than Obama
this was not a problem with conservatives at the time but is a big problem now. why?
(also morton your usage of unprovoked anti-semitism is truly inspiring to the :opcat: )
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If President Obama were trying to cut taxes, instead of raising taxes on the top 2%, no one from the right wing would give a sh*t about the budget. Where were all these right wing douchebags when Bush was invading Iraq and setting all-time records for budget deficit?
remember when BO was running for president and said the tax cuts were only for the rich. now he wants to extend them for everyone but the top 2% because they help the middle-class? Hilarious contradiction
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Democrats have controlled Congress for Five years . . how many times does that need to be said?
They got elected promising war extraction and fiscal responsibilty.
War Extraction: F-
Fiscal Responsiblity: F---
President Obama is reducing the number of troops in Iraq to around 25,000 in the next year or so. As far as fiscal responsibility is concerned, typically governments spend money during a recession to increase domestic consumption. Also, if you want to decrease the budget deficit, you're going to have to raise taxes, which is why President Obama wants to raise taxes on the top 2%.
The draw down in Iraq would have happened even if Bush were still in office. The surge worked to put an end to that war, but the same can't be said for Afghanistan at this point.
The government doesn't really have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. The more revenue they get, the more they will spend.
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Democrats have controlled Congress for Five years . . how many times does that need to be said?
They got elected promising war extraction and fiscal responsibilty.
War Extraction: F-
Fiscal Responsiblity: F---
President Obama is reducing the number of troops in Iraq to around 25,000 in the next year or so. As far as fiscal responsibility is concerned, typically governments spend money during a recession to increase domestic consumption. Also, if you want to decrease the budget deficit, you're going to have to raise taxes, which is why President Obama wants to raise taxes on the top 2%.
War Extraction . . . means leaving totally . . . and most of those troops were transferred to Afghanistan. In addition it's all about semantics. We've been over this before . . . they are reducing the number of "combat" troops, but rotating in just as many troops under other guises, even though the majority of them are combat capable and they are still getting combat pay. Not to mention the private army the State Department is cobbling together . . and that's just Iraq. There are now more hired guns (contractors) serving in combat roles and running CIA state sanctioned assasination operations, than at any other time in U.S. history. That's how they are getting by with call it a "reduction" in combat troops, hired mercs.
The number don't lie . . . the budget deficits have spireled out of control under a Democratic Congress
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Obama really has failed to live up to any of his campaign promises.
Close Guantanamo: Nope
Public Health Care: Nope
Bring Home the Troops: Nope
I'm sure there are more on the list.
Let's not forget how horribly he handled the BP oil spill.
It should be really hard for anybody to say that Obama has been a good president to this point and if things don't change soon (no pun intended), it would take a very weak republican candidate for me to vote for reelection.
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Obama really has failed to live up to any of his campaign promises.
Close Guantanamo: Nope
Public Health Care: Nope
Bring Home the Troops: Nope
I'm sure there are more on the list.
Let's not forget how horribly he handled the BP oil spill.
It should be really hard for anybody to say that Obama has been a good president to this point and if things don't change soon (no pun intended), it would take a very weak republican candidate for me to vote for reelection.
You can thank the Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to keep the Dems from implementing a public health care option. President Obama is bringing home tens of thousands of troops from Iraq. President Obama also wanted to close Guantanamo, but the 'Pubs threw a tit fit. Basically, the Dems are a bunch of pussies that try to compromise with the dumb f*cking 'Pubs instead of sacking up and implementing their own policies 100%. Like Bill Maher says, Obama needs a little bit of Bush in him. Screw what all these right wing douchebags say... do your own thing and grab the White House by the balls.
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Obama really has failed to live up to any of his campaign promises.
Close Guantanamo: Nope
Public Health Care: Nope
Bring Home the Troops: Nope
I'm sure there are more on the list.
Let's not forget how horribly he handled the BP oil spill.
It should be really hard for anybody to say that Obama has been a good president to this point and if things don't change soon (no pun intended), it would take a very weak republican candidate for me to vote for reelection.
You can thank the Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to keep the Dems from implementing a public health care option. President Obama is bringing home tens of thousands of troops from Iraq. President Obama also wanted to close Guantanamo, but the 'Pubs threw a tit fit. Basically, the Dems are a bunch of pussies that try to compromise with the dumb f*cking 'Pubs instead of sacking up and implementing their own policies 100%. Like Bill Maher says, Obama needs a little bit of Bush in him. Screw what all these right wing douchebags say... do your own thing and grab the White House by the balls.
:facepalm: Dems had complete control of both house and senate! Filibuster proof! It was his own party that stopped him, then he had to buy votes from his own party to get that pile of crap passed. It's a crap bill and everyone knows it.
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Obama really has failed to live up to any of his campaign promises.
Close Guantanamo: Nope
Public Health Care: Nope
Bring Home the Troops: Nope
I'm sure there are more on the list.
Let's not forget how horribly he handled the BP oil spill.
It should be really hard for anybody to say that Obama has been a good president to this point and if things don't change soon (no pun intended), it would take a very weak republican candidate for me to vote for reelection.
You can thank the Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to keep the Dems from implementing a public health care option. President Obama is bringing home tens of thousands of troops from Iraq. President Obama also wanted to close Guantanamo, but the 'Pubs threw a tit fit. Basically, the Dems are a bunch of pussies that try to compromise with the dumb f*cking 'Pubs instead of sacking up and implementing their own policies 100%. Like Bill Maher says, Obama needs a little bit of Bush in him. Screw what all these right wing douchebags say... do your own thing and grab the White House by the balls.
You can't be serious
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Bullshit on closing Gitmo . . . Obama's executive order wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Now they're engaged in the largest state sanctioned assassination campaign in U.S. history. Dwarfing the Phoenix Program started under LBJ during the Vietnam War.
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Democratic strategy meetings talking point #1: DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL SAVING MONEY!!
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Democratic strategy meetings talking point #1: DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL SAVING MONEY!!
This health care bill is just a joke. Obama could have passed government health care for all citizens, drastically reducing health care costs for 98% of Americans. Instead, we get government subsidies for the same system that we already have, and we can just expect costs to rise. It is absolutely ridiculous that he cannot pass his own policies with the filibuster-proof congress that he has. I don't mind paying more taxes for actual tangible benefits, but Obama is not providing any real benefits to me, and if I get taxed on my employer's insurance benefit, I'll be paying a whole lot more in taxes. Obama has been much worse than Bush, and that is just pathetic.
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Democratic strategy meetings talking point #1: DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE BILL SAVING MONEY!!
This health care bill is just a joke. Obama could have passed government health care for all citizens, drastically reducing health care costs for 98% of Americans. Instead, we get government subsidies for the same system that we already have, and we can just expect costs to rise. It is absolutely ridiculous that he cannot pass his own policies with the filibuster-proof congress that he has. I don't mind paying more taxes for actual tangible benefits, but Obama is not providing any real benefits to me, and if I get taxed on my employer's insurance benefit, I'll be paying a whole lot more in taxes. Obama has been much worse than Bush, and that is just pathetic.
He could have.... if it was really about health care.
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Obama really has failed to live up to any of his campaign promises.
Close Guantanamo: Nope
Public Health Care: Nope
Bring Home the Troops: Nope
I'm sure there are more on the list.
Let's not forget how horribly he handled the BP oil spill.
It should be really hard for anybody to say that Obama has been a good president to this point and if things don't change soon (no pun intended), it would take a very weak republican candidate for me to vote for reelection.
You can thank the Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to keep the Dems from implementing a public health care option. President Obama is bringing home tens of thousands of troops from Iraq. President Obama also wanted to close Guantanamo, but the 'Pubs threw a tit fit. Basically, the Dems are a bunch of pussies that try to compromise with the dumb f*cking 'Pubs instead of sacking up and implementing their own policies 100%. Like Bill Maher says, Obama needs a little bit of Bush in him. Screw what all these right wing douchebags say... do your own thing and grab the White House by the balls.
“I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence.” - William F. Buckley
@LickDicky - ok, ok.... Zionist, my bad! :ohno:
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I do love how Republicans attack Obama for the Republican solution to health care.
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so did Bush lead to bigger Government or not?
Morton not sure how Zionism relates to the discussion at hand
oh and :thumbsup: on the whole name change thing it is :lol:
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so did Bush lead to bigger Government or not?
Morton not sure how Zionism relates to the discussion at hand
oh and :thumbsup: on the whole name change thing it is :lol:
yes, he was a neo-con. Would the neo-con economic philosophy have succeeded minus 9/11 and the wars?... perhaps.
as for the zionists plug, just trolling. :grin:
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I do love how Republicans attack Obama for the Republican solution to health care.
Shhhh. . . you're frightening the libtards
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I do love how Republicans attack Obama for the Republican solution to health care.
Shhhh. . . you're frightening the libtards
I think they're well aware of what was compromised to get the Blue Dogs on board, which is one reason why Democratic turnout is going to be so low this year.