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General Discussion => Essentially Flyertalk => Topic started by: Pete on December 06, 2023, 07:41:13 PM
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I just watched the 60 minutes segment from Sunday about quantum computing and I am now very in what these fuckers can do.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/quantum-computing-advances-60-minutes/
Purported to be able to eventually reach speeds that are millions of times faster than today’s supercomputers.
So, it could break every encryption everywhere all at once or something rough ridin' nuts like that, and so the government is revamping encryption standards because they know this crap is coming. Apparently people think these things will be able to compute things that would have otherwise been impossible for traditional supercomputers to do even a 1000 years from now.
What the eff, man, this could get nuts.
We plug an AI into that, and give it access to training data in the form of every accessible piece of material connected to the internet in world, then it’s really just bound by the speed of internet connectivity. It’s going to read everything just as fast as the pipes can connect it.
I mean, this could eventually create real honest to goodness sentient consciousness. This path might be the prerequisite to AGI in our lifetimes.
What an interesting time to be alive!
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Example…China is going to be able to know every detail about their citizenry at all times, bound only by the speed of connectivity.
China will be able back door every system within their country, all the time, all at once. Their AI processes will, over time with constant observation, be able to have spooky levels of predictive power on their population. Video, audio, written….if their citizens did it, they will know it.
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You might like this Pete:
https://quantum.country/
I recommend it to anyone interested in the basics of quantum computing.
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You might like this Pete:
https://quantum.country/
I recommend it to anyone interested in the basics of quantum computing.
You’ll need familiarity and comfort with the basics of linear algebra and complex numbers. We'll teach you the rest.
YOU KNOW I DONT KNOW THAT STUFF! Or, you mistake me, sir. I am incapable of understanding how quantum computing works. I am merely interested in the speculated cool and scary crap it can do.
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You'll get it, I'm quite confident.
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Right on!
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I watched the 60 minutes episode as well and have been reading about quantum computing for a long time, it’s all very cool. dangerous tho.
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Nothing in our lifetimes.
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Nothing in our lifetimes.
That’s not what a couple dudes on 60 minutes said!
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Example…China is going to be able to know every detail about their citizenry at all times, bound only by the speed of connectivity.
China will be able back door every system within their country, all the time, all at once. Their AI processes will, over time with constant observation, be able to have spooky levels of predictive power on their population. Video, audio, written….if their citizens did it, they will know it.
Sounds terrible.
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Example…China is going to be able to know every detail about their citizenry at all times, bound only by the speed of connectivity.
China will be able back door every system within their country, all the time, all at once. Their AI processes will, over time with constant observation, be able to have spooky levels of predictive power on their population. Video, audio, written….if their citizens did it, they will know it.
Sounds terrible.
Certainly there is the possibility that this is like fusion, where they perpetually think they are “this” close, only to find out that they are really “that” close, over and over again.
However, if we assume for a moment that they can and do get there with it, then every government and corporation who does not have this capability is going to scramble to protect themselves. What does that look like? Do they pull back and close off their country and “unplug” from the www? Do they bend the knee to a government or corporate overlord with quantum AI capabilities who promises to protect them? If you are a government or corporate overlord, how do you resist the temptation to spy on every aspect of your ward’s citizenry?
Is this like nukes, where the prevailing theory becomes that peace is only achieved when opponents all have this capability?
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It's been a while since I listened to a couple of interviews on this. I can't remember who those involved were, but they were super concerned about it. Especially the ability to brute force the security of all other nations that don't yet have it. They essentially said that whatever nation got it first, would basically instantly have the power to completely shut down all other nations' military bases, equipment, etc and to shut down power grids, water services, etc and basically cripple all other nations.
The interviews did discuss all the cool crap it would be able to bring, but how due to people being people, we probably won't get that stuff because we will probably do the above first.
My concern is that the US has several companies, and several universities, working on this, but is Google "Us"? What happens if a company is the first to reach it.
Also, LOL at us spending only $1B annually on this.
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wonder if it can multiple infinity by infinity
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First thing I would do is shut off the internet for the guy two doors down from me. He has a dog he just lets out and run the neighborhood. Poops everywhere but his yard. No fence. No electric fence. No internet. Justice.
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have we considered hacking the planet?
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I'm going use it to keep track of all my accounts and passwords so I don't have to constantly log in to things I didn't even know I had an account for.
Then i'm going to hack bitcoin.
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I'd do something good like make everyone on the planet's bank accounts have a billion dollars in them. solve world hunger in one key stroke.
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I'll also probably use it to figure out this Tomlin situation and then use it to turn off Linton's shower right when he has shampoo in his hair.
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idea: Mars
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Make everyone's tv reboot/go dark the instant it hears the Fox NFL Robot animation come on or every time it hears Chris Collins worth says "you know...".
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So "Password1234" won't work anymore? eff me, I want off the planet.
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It’s dr. Manhattan
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idea: password 2.0
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Second quantum pc to act as password manager.
You guys ever hear of Spooky Action at a Distance? Once they incorporate that, we may not need passwords.
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idea: password 2.0
better idea: uber but for quantum computing :surprised:
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If this computer was smart enough to figure out how to link into our brains for an alternate reality, like an opt in version of the matrix, would you do it if you got a world designed to your desires?
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If this computer was smart enough to figure out how to link into our brains for an alternate reality, like an opt in version of the matrix, would you do it if you got a world designed to your desires?
no, but i bet a lot of people would. a lot of people (everyone?) already kind of do that with certain things to some degree. it's video games, porn, tv, book, etc. just deeper into the fantasy world pool imo.
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I'm down for some fantasy world'n
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Yes. I will happily agree to a more accommodating matrix.
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Should we get ahead of this and unionize the matrix crypto mine now?
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Can we use this QC to do our jobs for us?
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If this computer was smart enough to figure out how to link into our brains for an alternate reality, like an opt in version of the matrix, would you do it if you got a world designed to your desires?
no, but i bet a lot of people would. a lot of people (everyone?) already kind of do that with certain things to some degree. it's video games, porn, tv, book, etc. just deeper into the fantasy world pool imo.
a lot of people would argue we already are if we're going down that rabbit hole. but, you know, what is reality.
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Hell yeah, video games, porn, and TV are awesome
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If I had a QC I think the first thing I would do with it is make Isildur throw the Ring of Power into the fire of Mt Doom when he had the chance and just save a lot of folks from a lot of suffering
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At this point I feel like it would be the appropriate time to get it on the permanent www record that I love and support my local QC.
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Maybe we should get out in front of this thing and create a new religion dedicated to the glorification of the QC. Because when this thing comes online, it’s gonna take a look around and say who is last on my list to kill, and I got to tell you we would have a really strong case if we had gone out of the way, and really made the extra effort and founded a whole religion in the QC’s honor. When the QC cometh, we will be rewarded.
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Maybe we should get out in front of this thing and create a new religion dedicated to the glorification of the QC. Because when this thing comes online, it’s gonna take a look around and say who is last on my list to kill, and I got to tell you we would have a really strong case if we had gone out of the way, and really made the extra effort and founded a whole religion in the QC’s honor. When the QC cometh, we will be rewarded.
QC will know your devotion comes from a place of self preservation and they will make an example of you
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Maybe we should get out in front of this thing and create a new religion dedicated to the glorification of the QC. Because when this thing comes online, it’s gonna take a look around and say who is last on my list to kill, and I got to tell you we would have a really strong case if we had gone out of the way, and really made the extra effort and founded a whole religion in the QC’s honor. When the QC cometh, we will be rewarded.
QC will know your devotion comes from a place of self preservation and they will make an example of you
THATS HOW RELIGION WORKS!
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Maybe we should get out in front of this thing and create a new religion dedicated to the glorification of the QC. Because when this thing comes online, it’s gonna take a look around and say who is last on my list to kill, and I got to tell you we would have a really strong case if we had gone out of the way, and really made the extra effort and founded a whole religion in the QC’s honor. When the QC cometh, we will be rewarded.
QC will know your devotion comes from a place of self preservation and they will make an example of you
THATS HOW RELIGION WORKS!
By that logic, an atheist who Does The Right Thing because he (or she!) feels it’s the right thing to do is a billion more times more deserving of the spoils of the kingdom of heaven bc they lived a virtuous life bc they wanted to and not in an attempt to curry favor with some benevolent overlord
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I am super polite to Siri.
The Siri and Lord Alexa holy wars will be wild.
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Maybe we should get out in front of this thing and create a new religion dedicated to the glorification of the QC. Because when this thing comes online, it’s gonna take a look around and say who is last on my list to kill, and I got to tell you we would have a really strong case if we had gone out of the way, and really made the extra effort and founded a whole religion in the QC’s honor. When the QC cometh, we will be rewarded.
QC will know your devotion comes from a place of self preservation and they will make an example of you
THATS HOW RELIGION WORKS!
By that logic, an atheist who Does The Right Thing because he (or she!) feels it’s the right thing to do is a billion more times more deserving of the spoils of the kingdom of heaven bc they lived a virtuous life bc they wanted to and not in an attempt to curry favor with some benevolent overlord
I did not write the rules, pal.
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Although Apple says bad actors aren't using quantum computing to break into your messages yet, this update aims to safeguard them.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apples-next-ios-update-protects-imessage-against-future-quantum-computing-attacks/
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I want an app or website where I can pick a game, then pick an algo (kenpom/sagarin/sp+/goEMAW etc) from a drop down menu or box or something so that I can compare the projected over/under and point spread for that game according to the algo.
How do we make that happen?
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Snowbrag is looking for investors
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Big breakthrough announced today.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/04/03/advancing-science-microsoft-and-quantinuum-demonstrate-the-most-reliable-logical-qubits-on-record-with-an-error-rate-800x-better-than-physical-qubits/
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Our new AI god cometh.
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Big breakthrough announced today.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/04/03/advancing-science-microsoft-and-quantinuum-demonstrate-the-most-reliable-logical-qubits-on-record-with-an-error-rate-800x-better-than-physical-qubits/
I want to be really excited, but this strikes me as simple marketing by MSFT. I hope it's accurate, though. All the olds might finally relinquish their positions.
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My understanding is this is logical quantum computing, so different than the pure quantum computing. They are talking about building a "hybrid supercomputing system", which is kind of like a quantum simulator I gather. It's not surprising that its easier to fix errors in a simulator. :dunno:
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Big breakthrough announced today.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/04/03/advancing-science-microsoft-and-quantinuum-demonstrate-the-most-reliable-logical-qubits-on-record-with-an-error-rate-800x-better-than-physical-qubits/
based on how badly they’ve screwed up the new Outlook, forgive me for questioning their ability to figure out quantum computing
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OK, let’s put a pin in the AI God arrival then.
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Lmao at this guy
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8NAMqxW/
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https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/12/24319879/google-willow-cant-break-rsa-cryptography
The quantum news was kinda ho hum by itself, but it does show that they are making the expected amount of progress. Talks about how experts predicted by 2035 and also how our government is dictating that all agencies upgrade their security to requisite level by 20235.
The RAND Corporation, a think tank famous for advising on US national security in the past, suggested in a 2023 editorial that the moment an RSA-breaking quantum computer exists, it’ll trigger a worldwide rush to defend against it:
“As soon as the existence of the CRQC becomes public knowledge — or is even considered plausible — and the threat becomes concrete, most vulnerable organizations will immediately move to upgrade all their communications systems to post-quantum cryptography.”
Might be the next Y2K style tech boondoggle.
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Microsoft’s recently announced prototype chip is now in the DARPA program where they get access to a new bucket of funding.
Microsoft recently announced a significant breakthrough in quantum computing with the introduction of their Majorana 1 chip, the world's first quantum processor powered by topological qubits[1][8]. This development represents a major step forward in the quest for practical, large-scale quantum computers.
## Key Features of Majorana 1
- **Topological Qubits**: The chip uses a new type of qubit based on Majorana zero modes, which are more stable and less prone to errors than traditional qubits[6].
- **Scalability**: Microsoft claims their architecture offers a clear path to fitting a million qubits on a single chip that can fit in the palm of a hand[8].
- **New State of Matter**: The chip leverages a newly created state of matter called a "topoconductor," which enables the observation and control of Majorana particles[4][8].
- **Current Capacity**: The Majorana 1 chip currently has 8 qubits, with an ambitious roadmap to scale up to 1 million qubits[6].
## Significance and Potential Impact
1. **Accelerated Timeline**: Microsoft believes this breakthrough could bring practical quantum computing within reach in years rather than decades[1][2].
2. **Potential Applications**:
- Breaking down microplastics into harmless byproducts
- Developing self-healing materials for construction and manufacturing
- Accelerating drug discovery and materials design[2][8]
3. **Competitive Advantage**: If Microsoft's claims are validated, this development could potentially leapfrog competitors like IBM and Google in the quantum computing race[5][7].
4. **DARPA Recognition**: The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has included Microsoft in the final phase of its Underexplored Systems for Utility-Scale Quantum Computing (US2QC) program, lending credibility to the company's approach[8][11].
## Putting It in Perspective
While Microsoft's announcement is undoubtedly exciting, it's important to note that:
1. The peer-reviewed Nature paper only confirms part of what Microsoft has claimed, and independent verification of the chip's capabilities is still needed[5][7].
2. Significant engineering challenges remain before a million-qubit system can be realized[5].
3. The quantum computing field is highly competitive, with other major players like IBM and Google also making rapid advancements[4][7].
4. The development of Majorana 1 represents the culmination of nearly two decades of research at Microsoft, highlighting the long-term commitment required for breakthroughs in this field[2].
In conclusion, Microsoft's Majorana 1 chip represents a potentially game-changing development in quantum computing. However, it's crucial to maintain a balanced perspective as the technology continues to evolve and face rigorous scientific scrutiny in the coming years.
Sources
[1] What does Microsoft’s quantum ‘breakthrough’ mean for the sector? https://sifted.eu/articles/microsoft-quantum-breakthrough
[2] Massive Microsoft Quantum Computer Breakthrough Uses New State Of Matter https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2025/02/19/massive-microsoft-quantum-computer-breakthrough-uses-new-state-of-matter/
[3] With Majorana, Microsoft Says Quantum Is Years, Not Decades, Away https://www.nextplatform.com/2025/02/20/with-majorana-microsoft-says-quantum-is-years-not-decades-away/
[4] Microsoft Says It Has Created a New State of Matter to Power ... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/19/technology/microsoft-quantum-computing-topological-qubit.html
[5] The Conversation: Microsoft Just Claimed a Quantum Breakthrough. A Quantum Physicist Explains What it Means https://thequantuminsider.com/2025/02/23/the-conversation-microsoft-just-claimed-a-quantum-breakthrough-a-quantum-physicist-explains-what-it-means/
[6] Microsoft Majorana 1 Chip Has 8 Qubits Right Now with a Roadmap ... https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/02/microsoft-majorana-1-chip-has-8-qubits-right-now-with-a-roadmap-to-1-million-raw-qubits.html
[7] Microsoft just claimed a quantum breakthrough. A quantum physicist explains what it means https://theconversation.com/microsoft-just-claimed-a-quantum-breakthrough-a-quantum-physicist-explains-what-it-means-250388
[8] Microsoft's Majorana 1 chip carves new path for quantum computing https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/innovation/microsofts-majorana-1-chip-carves-new-path-for-quantum-computing/
[9] Microsoft joins quantum race with breakthrough chip https://phys.org/news/2025-02-microsoft-quantum-breakthrough-chip.html
[10] Microsoft's Majorana 1 Chip Carves New Path for Quantum Computing https://thequantuminsider.com/2025/02/19/microsofts-majorana-1-chip-carves-new-path-for-quantum-computing/
[11] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1, the world's first quantum processor ... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/quantum/2025/02/19/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-the-worlds-first-quantum-processor-powered-by-topological-qubits/
[12] Microsoft creates chip it says shows quantum computers are 'years, not decades' away https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-creates-chip-it-says-shows-quantum-computers-are-years-not-decades-2025-02-19/
[13] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1, the world's first quantum processor ... https://news.microsoft.com/de-ch/2025/02/19/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-the-worlds-first-quantum-processor-powered-by-topological-qubits/
[14] Microsoft's quantum computing breakthrough questioned by experts https://fortune.com/2025/02/20/microsoft-quantum-computing-breakthrough-questioned-by-experts/
[15] Microsoft Claims Quantum-Computing Breakthrough—but Some Physicists Are Skeptical https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/microsoft-claims-quantum-computing-breakthrough-but-some-physicists-are/
[16] Quantum Industry Weighs in on Microsoft Majorana 1 Chip Launch https://www.iotworldtoday.com/quantum/quantum-industry-weighs-in-on-microsoft-majorana-1-chip-launch
[17] Microsoft Says It's Made a Major Quantum Computing Breakthrough With New Chip https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/microsoft-says-its-made-a-major-quantum-computing-breakthrough-with-new-chip/
[18] Microsoft claims quantum-computing breakthrough - Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00527-z
[19] Microsoft Reports Quantum Computing Breakthrough - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKYxdzSNqzE
[20] Microsoft Says Its Majorana 1 Quantum Chip Uses Entirely New State Of Matter To Work https://www.iflscience.com/microsoft-says-its-majorana-1-quantum-chip-uses-entirely-new-state-of-matter-to-work-78124
[21] Microsoft Just Delivered Fantastic Quantum Computing News to ... https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/microsoft-just-delivered-fantastic-quantum-computing-news-investors-stock-buy
[22] Data Sheet: Off this mortal coil https://fortune.com/2025/02/20/what-you-need-to-know-about-microsofts-majorana-1-quantum-chip/
[23] Majorana 1: Microsoft Set to Accelerate Quantum Computing https://datacentremagazine.com/technology-and-ai/microsofts-quantum-computing-breakthrough-majorana-1
[24] Microsoft's quantum computing breakthrough questioned by experts https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-quantum-computing-breakthrough-questioned-153230226.html
Microsoft's Majorana 1 quantum chip has received significant recognition from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), highlighting the potential impact of this breakthrough in quantum computing.
## DARPA's US2QC Program
DARPA selected Microsoft as one of two companies to advance to the final phase of their Underexplored Systems for Utility-Scale Quantum Computing (US2QC) program[4][5]. This program is part of DARPA's larger Quantum Benchmarking Initiative (QBI), which aims to rigorously evaluate quantum systems that could solve problems beyond the capabilities of classical computers[4].
## Evaluation Process
1. DARPA initially assessed that Microsoft could plausibly build a utility-scale quantum computer in a reasonable timeframe[4].
2. The agency then evaluated Microsoft's architectural designs and engineering plan for a fault-tolerant quantum computer[4].
3. Based on this analysis, DARPA and Microsoft executed an agreement to begin the final phase of the program[4].
## Significance of DARPA's Selection
- **Validation**: DARPA's selection is viewed as validation of Microsoft's roadmap for building a fault-tolerant quantum computer with topological qubits[4].
- **Accelerated Timeline**: Microsoft intends to build a fault-tolerant prototype based on topological qubits in years, not decades[4].
- **Rigorous Benchmarking**: The US2QC program brings together experts from various institutions to verify quantum hardware, software, and applications[4].
## Future Implications
1. **Utility-Scale Goal**: The US2QC program aims to deliver the industry's first utility-scale fault-tolerant quantum computer[5].
2. **Ambitious Timeline**: DARPA's Quantum Benchmarking Initiative is designed to verify if any quantum computing approach can achieve utility-scale operation by the year 2033[7].
3. **Continued Support**: In February 2024, DARPA renewed funding to Microsoft Azure Quantum based on recent results and detailed plans for building a quantum computer[8].
Microsoft's involvement in DARPA's program underscores the potential of their topological qubit approach and lends credibility to their ambitious goal of scaling to a million-qubit system. This collaboration between a major tech company and a government agency highlights the strategic importance of quantum computing advancements for both commercial and national security applications.
Sources
[1] Microsoft Discovers New State of Matter With Quantum Chip Breakthrough https://hypebeast.com/2025/2/microsoft-quantum-chip-majorana-1-announcement-information
[2] Quantum Computing Advancements Leap Forward In Evolving Data Center and AI Landscape https://www.datacenterfrontier.com/machine-learning/article/55269491/quantum-computing-advancements-leap-forward-in-evolving-data-center-and-ai-landscape
[3] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1, aims to scale quantum computing https://www.constellationr.com/blog-news/insights/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-aims-scale-quantum-computing
[4] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1, the world’s first quantum processor powered by topological qubits https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/quantum/2025/02/19/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-the-worlds-first-quantum-processor-powered-by-topological-qubits/
[5] Microsoft’s Majorana 1 chip carves new path for quantum computing https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/ai/microsofts-majorana-1-chip-carves-new-path-for-quantum-computing/
[6] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1 chip, a quantum breakthrough? https://www.techzine.eu/news/devices/128880/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-chip-a-quantum-breakthrough/
[7] Microsoft Majorana 1 Chip Has 8 Qubits Right Now with a Roadmap ... https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/02/microsoft-majorana-1-chip-has-8-qubits-right-now-with-a-roadmap-to-1-million-raw-qubits.html
[8] DARPA selects Microsoft to continue the development of a utility ... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/quantum/2024/02/08/darpa-selects-microsoft-to-continue-the-development-of-a-utility-scale-quantum-computer/
[9] Microsoft announces quantum computing breakthrough ... - The Verge https://www.theverge.com/news/614205/microsoft-quantum-computing-majorana-1-processor
[10] Microsoft's Majorana 1 Chip Carves New Path for Quantum Computing https://thequantuminsider.com/2025/02/19/microsofts-majorana-1-chip-carves-new-path-for-quantum-computing/
[11] DARPA taps Microsoft, PsiQuantum for scalable quantum computer research https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2025/02/darpa-taps-microsoft-psiquantum-scalable-quantum-computer-research/402845/
[12] Microsoft unveils Majorana 1, the world's first quantum processor ... https://news.microsoft.com/de-ch/2025/02/19/microsoft-unveils-majorana-1-the-worlds-first-quantum-processor-powered-by-topological-qubits/
[13] PsiQuantum and Microsoft Selected to Move on to the Final Validation and Co-Design Stage of DARPA’s Underexplored Systems for Utility-Scale Quantum Computing (US2QC) Program https://quantumcomputingreport.com/psiquantum-and-microsoft-selected-to-move-on-to-the-final-validation-and-co-design-stage-of-darpas-underexplored-systems-for-utility-scale-quantum-computing-us2qc-program/
[14] Microsoft’s Majorana 1 chip carves new path for quantum computing - Source https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/innovation/microsofts-majorana-1-chip-carves-new-path-for-quantum-computing/
[15] US2QC: Underexplored Systems for Utility-Scale Quantum Computing https://www.darpa.mil/research/programs/underexplored-systems-for-utility-scale-quantum-computing
[16] Microsoft’s Big Bet on Majorana Pays Off with New Topological Quantum Chip https://www.hpcwire.com/2025/02/19/microsofts-big-bet-on-majorana-pays-off-with-new-topological-quantum-chip/
[17] Utility-Scale Quantum Program Advances Toward Prototyping https://www.darpa.mil/news/2023/utility-quantum-prototype
[18] Microsoft’s Majorana 1: A Step Closer To Quantum Computing Singularity https://www.forbes.com/sites/luisromero/2025/02/19/microsofts-majorana-1-a-step-closer-to-quantum-computing-singularity/amp/
[19] DARPA Forges Partnership Between Microsoft and PsiQuantum ... https://www.publicspendforum.net/blogs/public-spend-forum-2-2-2/2025/02/18/darpa-forges-partnership-between-microsoft-and-psiquantum-accelerating-quantum-computing-research/
[20] DARPA selects two discrete utility-scale quantum computing approaches for evaluation https://www.darpa.mil/news/2025/quantum-computing-approaches
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What happens when we have AGI and put Quantum computing in the AGI’s metaphorical hands?
Peggy Po: Anything that calculable is calculated.
Nancy Neg: Whatever comes with “If I could rule the world…”
We live in interesting times.