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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on February 23, 2017, 06:37:22 AM
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It becomes harder to do these after terrible basketball.
Notice we now have a 6th half of basketball of absolutely getting destroyed in our last 9 games. Brutal.
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We are setting some Asbury records this season. :frown:
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Starting guards 5-19 FG with 8 TOs.
Starting Center scores 5 quick pts, then goes invisible
We hold their starting guards to 4-18 FG and Carroll just 4-9, but still allow 1.18 PPP
Allow 14-0 run when you have the game going just like you want it. And to go from up 14 to down 11 in 20 minutes of play.
#Pathetic
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
Evans just destroyed us. He made us look silly.
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
Evans just destroyed us. He made us look silly.
he did and i expected that. he's a great player who has done that to a lot of teams. the rest of osu shouldn't have taken the game from us though and they did.
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
Evans just destroyed us. He made us look silly.
He gave us fits and shot 12 FTs, but he was only 4-16 FG. The OSU bench went 12-14. Then Hammond just thoroughly outplayed our bigs in the 2nd half. His 18&10 are basically the same as what DJamer/Dean combined for
OSU is improved on D, but 9-28 FG with 11 TOs the final 41-42 Poss is just another illustration of bad guard play and our bigs not getting shots.
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More importantly did we win the play hard chart last night?
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
Evans just destroyed us. He made us look silly.
He gave us fits and shot 12 FTs, but he was only 4-16 FG. The OSU bench went 12-14. Then Hammond just thoroughly outplayed our bigs in the 2nd half. His 18&10 are basically the same as what DJamer/Dean combined for
OSU is improved on D, but 9-28 FG with 11 TOs the final 41-42 Poss is just another illustration of bad guard play and our bigs not getting shots.
Bigs not getting shots? Exactly what shots do you want DJamer taking? He has no back to the basket game. What offense do we run that gets bigs touches and scores? oscar should be purely fired on that piss poor excuse for motion offense.
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it seemed like everything osu threw up, went in the basket
Evans just destroyed us. He made us look silly.
he did and i expected that. he's a great player who has done that to a lot of teams. the rest of osu shouldn't have taken the game from us though and they did.
What about Averette? Pretty sure he is going to abuse us for 3 more years.
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
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44 total minutes for DJamer and X seems criminal.
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oscar's continued refusal to take chances with his players when they get into foul trouble is confounding, maybe he has quit on the season too.
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
Score what in the paint? A layup/dunk? I agree with that assessment, but if he can't seal a guy up the lane or get a dump off at the rim he is pretty much a stiff on offense. Dude has no game. I'm sure if he demands the ball more he will get more touches, our guards know he can't score anything but a 2 foot shot. They aren't dumb either.
Is Claws considered a big??? Plays on the perimeter 90% of game. Lack of forcing help and recovers as well as having an offense with no real purpose leads to standing and watching guys with no ability to create. I really enjoy watching contested shot after shot after shot. Some ugly basketball oscar's system produces.
Meanwhile, Averette already blossoming for Underwood. We have no one on our roster that can create as well as he can without a ball screen or a help and recover. Love that kids hesitation move!
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44 total minutes for DJamer and X seems criminal.
Sneed has not played well for 6 games. He isn't giving us anything on Offense (3-17 3pt, 4-12 2pt). His overall Rebounding hasn't been good (10 Reb in 110 min) but his DR numbers are terrible.
I'd rather see him at the 4 than Mo or Budke, but unfortunately Sneed has been unproductive for these past 6 gms
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
Score what in the paint? A layup/dunk? I agree with that assessment, but if he can't seal a guy up the lane or get a dump off at the rim he is pretty much a stiff on offense. Dude has no game. I'm sure if he demands the ball more he will get more touches, our guards know he can't score anything but a 2 foot shot. They aren't dumb either.
Is Claws considered a big??? Plays on the perimeter 90% of game. Lack of forcing help and recovers as well as having an offense with no real purpose leads to standing and watching guys with no ability to create. I really enjoy watching contested shot after shot after shot. Some ugly basketball oscar's system produces.
Meanwhile, Averette already blossoming for Underwood. We have no one on our roster that can create as well as he can without a ball screen or a help and recover. Love that kids hesitation move!
The 7 B12 games prior to missing WV game with injury... DJamer was 40-62 on FGs, Ave 14.1pts. No matter what you think his skill set is, those numbers are pretty good.
Better than 2 guards jacking up 20+ shots hitting low 40s on eFG
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
Score what in the paint? A layup/dunk? I agree with that assessment, but if he can't seal a guy up the lane or get a dump off at the rim he is pretty much a stiff on offense. Dude has no game. I'm sure if he demands the ball more he will get more touches, our guards know he can't score anything but a 2 foot shot. They aren't dumb either.
Is Claws considered a big??? Plays on the perimeter 90% of game. Lack of forcing help and recovers as well as having an offense with no real purpose leads to standing and watching guys with no ability to create. I really enjoy watching contested shot after shot after shot. Some ugly basketball oscar's system produces.
Meanwhile, Averette already blossoming for Underwood. We have no one on our roster that can create as well as he can without a ball screen or a help and recover. Love that kids hesitation move!
The 7 B12 games prior to missing WV game with injury... DJamer was 40-62 on FGs, Ave 14.1pts. No matter what you think his skill set is, those numbers are pretty good.
Better than 2 guards jacking up 20+ shots hitting low 40s on eFG
High IQ point of the day. The guys with best shooting % are your worst offensive players. Why??? Because they take only layups or dunks or putbacks on offensive boards.
Yes that is better then 2 gaurds jacking crap shots, but when you can't get your layup machine to get layups or putbacks and run no offense that shot clock thing forces those shots. Blame oscar's staff for the crap offense and 5 years of DJamer not developing any post game whatsoever.
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
Score what in the paint? A layup/dunk? I agree with that assessment, but if he can't seal a guy up the lane or get a dump off at the rim he is pretty much a stiff on offense. Dude has no game. I'm sure if he demands the ball more he will get more touches, our guards know he can't score anything but a 2 foot shot. They aren't dumb either.
Is Claws considered a big??? Plays on the perimeter 90% of game. Lack of forcing help and recovers as well as having an offense with no real purpose leads to standing and watching guys with no ability to create. I really enjoy watching contested shot after shot after shot. Some ugly basketball oscar's system produces.
Meanwhile, Averette already blossoming for Underwood. We have no one on our roster that can create as well as he can without a ball screen or a help and recover. Love that kids hesitation move!
I don't completely agree with your assessment of DJamer's post game. He's not dominant, but he's become a pretty solid player in there and he can score with his back to the basket at times. I don't think its accurate at all to say he has "no game".
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Averette had all of 41 pts in 14 prior B12 games.
DJamer took 5 shots. He has shown the ability to score in the paint all year. He wasn't demanding the ball enough and our guards were doing poor job of looking for him. He missed 3 easy shots, but still 5 FGA is not enough
Dean took 6 shots and scored 10 pts on them. Brown and Stokes took 19 shots and scored 12 pts on them. Bigs not getting enough shots.
Score what in the paint? A layup/dunk? I agree with that assessment, but if he can't seal a guy up the lane or get a dump off at the rim he is pretty much a stiff on offense. Dude has no game. I'm sure if he demands the ball more he will get more touches, our guards know he can't score anything but a 2 foot shot. They aren't dumb either.
Is Claws considered a big??? Plays on the perimeter 90% of game. Lack of forcing help and recovers as well as having an offense with no real purpose leads to standing and watching guys with no ability to create. I really enjoy watching contested shot after shot after shot. Some ugly basketball oscar's system produces.
Meanwhile, Averette already blossoming for Underwood. We have no one on our roster that can create as well as he can without a ball screen or a help and recover. Love that kids hesitation move!
I don't completely agree with your assessment of DJamer's post game. He's not dominant, but he's become a pretty solid player in there and he can score with his back to the basket at times. I don't think its accurate at all to say he has "no game".
So why don't we iso him then if he has some game? OSU has no bigs would of been the perfect game for it...That's right unless he can get touches 2 feet from the basket he is ineffective and worthless on offense. He is a nice rebounder and screener for offense, but he is in there to defend, foul at the rim, and play hard.
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So why don't we iso him then if he has some game? OSU has no bigs would of been the perfect game for it...That's right unless he can get touches 2 feet from the basket he is ineffective and worthless on offense. He is a nice rebounder and screener for offense, but he is in there to defend, foul at the rim, and play hard.
a) I think we try, but we aren't very good at it.
b) A lot because he's a one sided player. Take away his right shoulder and he struggles.
c) He has come a long way since his first 2 years. He was ONLY a put back, lay-up, garbage guy then. He has developed as much as possible and his scoring numbers show this. You can't have no game and have a very good offensive rating over 110 and score 25 points per 100 possessions while shooting over 60%.
The list of problems on this team over and above DJamer's game is a long one. JMHO.
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_fan, can you tell me why Forte isn't killing ppl this year?
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_fan, can you tell me why Forte isn't killing ppl this year?
He still is, he just hasn't played well 2 of his last 3 games. He's still shooting 42% from 3 with a ridiculous offensive rating of 132.
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how awful is this team going to be next year without DJamer and Wes.. pretty bad right :frown:
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So why don't we iso him then if he has some game? OSU has no bigs would of been the perfect game for it...That's right unless he can get touches 2 feet from the basket he is ineffective and worthless on offense. He is a nice rebounder and screener for offense, but he is in there to defend, foul at the rim, and play hard.
a) I think we try, but we aren't very good at it.
b) A lot because he's a one sided player. Take away his right shoulder and he struggles.
c) He has come a long way since his first 2 years. He was ONLY a put back, lay-up, garbage guy then. He has developed as much as possible and his scoring numbers show this. You can't have no game and have a very good offensive rating over 110 and score 25 points per 100 possessions while shooting over 60%.
The list of problems on this team over and above DJamer's game is a long one. JMHO.
Agreed, but stats don't tell the story. If you highlight reeled all of his scoring or shots it would comical. Don't defend him. He has had 5 years to develop his game, he is a D1 athlete at a P5 school its your job to get good at basketball and specifically what you need to do on the court.
Again he shoots over 60% because if he tried to create his own shots or score with post moves he would be a terrible shooter, pulled from the court for his shot selection and not play or get touches because guys know he would be a black hole. He takes only shots he knows he can score. Those are layups/dunks 90% of the time.
He has a very good 2-4 foot game. So does every other P5 big in america.
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Agreed, but stats don't tell the story. If you highlight reeled all of his scoring or shots it would comical. Don't defend him. He has had 5 years to develop his game, he is a D1 athlete at a P5 school its your job to get good at basketball and specifically what you need to do on the court.
Again he shoots over 60% because if he tried to create his own shots or score with post moves he would be a terrible shooter, pulled from the court for his shot selection and not play or get touches because guys know he would be a black hole. He takes only shots he knows he can score. Those are layups/dunks 90% of the time.
He has a very good 2-4 foot game. So does every other P5 big in america.
I get your points, but I will agree to disagree as well.
DJamer was a more of a football athlete that chose basketball when he came here. He fought through numerous injuries. He's become a very productive Big 12 player (probably HM all league), even if many of his points come off of effort plays and sure shots. He is a very good rebounder and pretty solid post defender. I don't think its accurate to say he hasn't worked to develop his game. There are other more naturally gifted guys on our roster I would go after for lack of development, starting with Wes and Dean.
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Agreed, but stats don't tell the story. If you highlight reeled all of his scoring or shots it would comical. Don't defend him. He has had 5 years to develop his game, he is a D1 athlete at a P5 school its your job to get good at basketball and specifically what you need to do on the court.
Again he shoots over 60% because if he tried to create his own shots or score with post moves he would be a terrible shooter, pulled from the court for his shot selection and not play or get touches because guys know he would be a black hole. He takes only shots he knows he can score. Those are layups/dunks 90% of the time.
He has a very good 2-4 foot game. So does every other P5 big in america.
I get your points, but I will agree to disagree as well.
DJamer was a more of a football athlete that chose basketball when he came here. He fought through numerous injuries. He's become a very productive Big 12 player (probably HM all league), even if many of his points come off of effort plays and sure shots. He is a very good rebounder and pretty solid post defender. I don't think its accurate to say he hasn't worked to develop his game. There are other more naturally gifted guys on our roster I would go after for lack of development, starting with Wes and Dean.
Good points, but he chose basketball he should be a basketball player then. Or is this poor recruiting? I think Wes isn't good because of the system he is in and the poor player development. I think we will really miss Wes next year because he can make plays unlike many other players on this team. Imagine him in Underwood's system. He would be nice off 2-man game in Spread. Claws is a sophomore and again poorly developed and not appropriately used by oscar Weber. Kid is soft. Nice player, but just soft. In fact all of our guys are soft. OSU the softest team in the league a year ago just completely out toughed us and whipped our asses at everything last night despite playing so poorly for the first half. Leyton freaking Hammonds destroyed us on the glass keeping extra possessions alive. Jeffery Carroll same thing. Forte beating our guys to loose balls and making plays for others despite not scoring on the ball.
Just shows how culture matters more then your system. Toughest team almost always wins in basketball. Cats just arent tough and it is so depressing to watch now.
There are pieces here. Next year we are missing a big, but the team should be solid whoever takes over the program.
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Good points, but he chose basketball he should be a basketball player then. Or is this poor recruiting? I think Wes isn't good because of the system he is in and the poor player development. I think we will really miss Wes next year because he can make plays unlike many other players on this team. Imagine him in Underwood's system. He would be nice off 2-man game in Spread. Claws is a sophomore and again poorly developed and not appropriately used by oscar Weber. Kid is soft. Nice player, but just soft. In fact all of our guys are soft. OSU the softest team in the league a year ago just completely out toughed us and whipped our asses at everything last night despite playing so poorly for the first half. Leyton freaking Hammonds destroyed us on the glass keeping extra possessions alive. Jeffery Carroll same thing. Forte beating our guys to loose balls and making plays for others despite not scoring on the ball.
Just shows how culture matters more then your system. Toughest team almost always wins in basketball. Cats just arent tough and it is so depressing to watch now.
There are pieces here. Next year we are missing a big, but the team should be solid whoever takes over the program.
1st point, I'd say its more recruiting. IMO DJamer has made the most of his chance to be a P5 player.
2nd, agree on Wes, but he keeps both teams in the game. He has good rebounding numbers, but how many boxout/boards did he miss last night.
3rd, absolutely agree on culture. This program does not have a culture of toughness/effort right now, no matter how much the coach tries to emphasize his PHC. Its embarrassing how much that has fallen off in the last 5 seasons. At a program like ours toughness/effort have to be your calling cards.
4th, I agree that the right coach still will have some parts to work with, but after being in this system can our guys work with a tough coach?
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Good points, but he chose basketball he should be a basketball player then. Or is this poor recruiting? I think Wes isn't good because of the system he is in and the poor player development. I think we will really miss Wes next year because he can make plays unlike many other players on this team. Imagine him in Underwood's system. He would be nice off 2-man game in Spread. Claws is a sophomore and again poorly developed and not appropriately used by oscar Weber. Kid is soft. Nice player, but just soft. In fact all of our guys are soft. OSU the softest team in the league a year ago just completely out toughed us and whipped our asses at everything last night despite playing so poorly for the first half. Leyton freaking Hammonds destroyed us on the glass keeping extra possessions alive. Jeffery Carroll same thing. Forte beating our guys to loose balls and making plays for others despite not scoring on the ball.
Just shows how culture matters more then your system. Toughest team almost always wins in basketball. Cats just arent tough and it is so depressing to watch now.
There are pieces here. Next year we are missing a big, but the team should be solid whoever takes over the program.
1st point, I'd say its more recruiting. IMO DJamer has made the most of his chance to be a P5 player.
2nd, agree on Wes, but he keeps both teams in the game. He has good rebounding numbers, but how many boxout/boards did he miss last night.
3rd, absolutely agree on culture. This program does not have a culture of toughness/effort right now, no matter how much the coach tries to emphasize his PHC. Its embarrassing how much that has fallen off in the last 5 seasons. At a program like ours toughness/effort have to be your calling cards.
4th, I agree that the right coach still will have some parts to work with, but after being in this system can our guys work with a tough coach?
Yup absolutely Wes wears both unis. I'm sure he will have some possessions in a OU uni on Saturday. Can the right coach change this...yes, who is that guy? Brad Underwood. We have got to kiss and make-up and bring him home. Pay the $$$, bring our hero home. Heck half of OSU doesn't even know who he is still. He would be a hero at K-State and have a chance to save the program and save his alma matter and coach here for the next 20+ years.
This needs to happen. Long term investment here Currie. Give OSU their money. Admit and move on to a brighter day of Cat bball.
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I just realized who Phil Forte reminds me of! The weird kid from kings of summer
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some of us depend on having a _fwn maybe postgame stats thread available after the games, ksu_fwn maybe.
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44 total minutes for DJamer and X seems criminal.
Sneed has not played well for 6 games. He isn't giving us anything on Offense (3-17 3pt, 4-12 2pt). His overall Rebounding hasn't been good (10 Reb in 110 min) but his DR numbers are terrible.
I'd rather see him at the 4 than Mo or Budke, but unfortunately Sneed has been unproductive for these past 6 gms
I spent all of January and half of February telling you all that he would revert to the mean. That doesn't mean he should be getting less minutes, if you think he's valuable you give him more opportunities to get out of it. It isn't like those minutes are going to a more productive player(s).
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some of us depend on having a _fwn maybe postgame stats thread available after the games, ksu_fwn maybe.
Sorry sys. I pretty much had it done after I drove home from Manhattan, but then I just went on a twitter rant and went to bed.
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You are focused too much on where DJamer shoots his shots. For 7 games, he averaged 6-9 on FGs per game. He was getting 9 shots, making 2/3 of them. I'm not expecting 15 FGAs a game, 9-10 is fine. But 5 shots when others are cold is my big issue. That's partly on the coach, partly on his teammates, partly on DJamer (he needs to try harder to get position and get on his teammates if they don't feed him)
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we do iso DJamer fwiw, i mean- wtf? oscar runs his offense from the outside in and we're terrible at getting DJamer the ball, getting DJamer isolation is definitely part of the offense whether we're successful at it or not
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pretty boss newspaper cover tbh
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_fan, can you tell me why Forte isn't killing ppl this year?
In games where the other team guards him with a long, athletic player like Westicles last night he has been held in check. But others have taken up the slack. He has also shot much better at home than on the road, I'm sure some of that is related to how he is defended as well. He has been the 3rd best player over the season.
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that phil forte doppelganger would've killed over at wildcat salute or one of those places :don'tcare: