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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 24, 2017, 10:17:52 PM
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You can't play that poorly on the road in a half and expect to win. I'm not even that upset about the defense (besides helping off of the best shooter on the floor multiple times), but that offense was pathetic.
Again, too many key turnovers by key guards (overall TOs were good) and again the 3pt line is a problem.
Just another wasted opportunity on the road. Not a killer for this season, but you can only do this so many times and this team is good at doing it a lot.
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I feel like we lost that game twice. That is what hurts the most.
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Predictable poor effort early, I had hoped we'd grown out of that. :frown:
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Sneed good but a freshman mistake hurt. I hope Claws is not hurt too bad. We did not crap our.pqnts and slink away. Tough and we do not give up. We do need a big scorer.
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Also sucks that the nail in the coffin was another BS foul call on that dunk.
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1) Very true. You can't be that bad on O & D for a half, and really expect to win in Ames. Had we been just average on either in the 1st, the uphill climb isn't 17 pts at the break.
2) obviously, I like our effort for a majority of the 2nd half, but it was clear we used a lot of energy, and it just felt like after we got the 1 point lead, Isu was due to make a counter run.
3) That said, we had chances. After taking the 59-58 lead, Isu only had 12 pts in last 12 Possessions. We just left some points and opportunities out there. DJamer is just struggling at the line. He got their 3x late and Kam 1x, and it produced only 3 points. Sneed, who had some big 3s, had a great open look top of the key with 1:00 and just couldn't hit it. And then 4 TOs.
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Also sucks that the nail in the coffin was another BS foul call on that dunk.
The nail was already in the coffin at that point.
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it has become routine
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Sneed good but a freshman mistake hurt. I hope Claws is not hurt too bad. We did not crap our.pqnts and slink away. Tough and we do not give up. We do need a big scorer.
hang it up skinny. Sheesh
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I feel like we took a lot of bad shots tonight, and that helped isu on offense a lot
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was pretty peaceful yelling at my TV with having nobody here to talk with
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I feel like we took a lot of bad shots tonight, and that helped isu on offense a lot
Settling for lots of jumpers.
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Yes, you should be upset that ISU spread the floor and caused oscar's dumbasses to play help defense 22 feet from the basket leaving 3pt shooters wide open. #terrible
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33% 2pt, 33% 3pt. Only 4 assists, only got 2 ORs out of 20 chances, and 2 FTAs.
We had 29 Possessions where we didn't TO the ball. 26 Pts those 29 times. Easily our worst half in awhile
Isu looked awful during our 20-3 run. Over 8 minutes, and their lone FG only happened cause DJamer got poked in eye/face.
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All Havs MATTer
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I feel like we took a lot of bad shots tonight, and that helped isu on offense a lot
Yeah. Whenever DJamer was off of the floor we looked like we had to take and make the Rock N Jock 25 point shot.
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Are we still going with the three point lottery or are we watching closely enough to see that we give up an inordinate amount of unguarded threes?
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Chris Babb has played in the NBA? Goddammit, Frank.
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^Me during the game
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Also sucks that the nail in the coffin was another BS foul call on that dunk.
"nail in the coffin?" We were down 4 with 5 seconds remaining. Only oscar Weber can lose a 4 point lead with less than 5 seconds left!
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Are we still going with the three point lottery or are we watching closely enough to see that we give up an inordinate amount of unguarded threes?
Last 6 games, we have allowed 45.9 on 2pt%. Solid work
Last 7 games, we have allowed 63-134 on 3pt. That's 47.0% and 9 makes per game. Not so solid.
Each of those 7 teams shot at least 38%. Take it as you want it. I will continue to see it as a problem.
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Are we still going with the three point lottery or are we watching closely enough to see that we give up an inordinate amount of unguarded threes?
data says it's an ordinate amount.
3PA/FGA: 35.4 152th
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Dean was very hobbled, played him way too much in the first half.
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The 2nd half we made great adjustments with our defense, but it was too late. We did a much better job with drivers and didn't help off shooters. ISU shot fewer threes and made less. Honestly, I put most of the first half on the players. They had to know the scout on ISU, anyone knows when playing shooting teams that spread you out that you can't help, especially on the ball side of drives. We did it over and over. Ervin helped twice off Thomas in a span of 3 or 4 possessions. You take your chances with ISU shooting tough 2s in the lane because they don't draw fouls and get to the FT line often. We did that in the 2nd half and their offense stagnated.
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Dean was very hobbled, played him way too much in the first half.
This helped. ISU is a tougher matchup for Wade on defense because he's defending a guard, especially when hobbled. Sneed helped out a bunch with his 2nd half defense.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
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The KK - Clent Stewart Fued lives!
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
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Also sucks that the nail in the coffin was another BS foul call on that dunk.
"nail in the coffin?" We were down 4 with 5 seconds remaining. Only oscar Weber can lose a 4 point lead with less than 5 seconds left!
Yea, I misremembered the timing.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
Good points. The Stokes one where he turned it right back over was really frustrating still, and to me that was the nail in the coffin. The final one the game was pretty much over IMO. And the Wes one trying to pass to DJamer was in part a really good play by ISU. DJamer had a great seal and it looked to me like the lob would get there initially. Ervin most definitely was fouled, but that's rarely going to be called.
Still, its 4 TOs in key situations.
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The Ervin one was bad because he clearly could've split and dribbled through the double. He basically did that, just forgot to dribble. But they were all bad turnovers.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
You can't win games with sophomore point guards sophomore point guarding.
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not one thing matters more than the other if you consider that ultimately something was going to make us lose that game. facts are facts, oscar doesn't win road games against teams with a pulse.
eliminating one factor from the equation just presents an opportunity for another
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
You can't win games with sophomore point guards sophomore point guarding.
So true....kindof like it is tough to win with young QB's.
We have been playing with young guards for four years now.
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A lot of Brucexcuses in this thread............
I guess we will have to wait until Stokes is a Sr then. Glad Wes is a SR and doesn't make late game TO's or misses FT's.....oh, wait.......dang :sdeek:
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Are we still going with the three point lottery or are we watching closely enough to see that we give up an inordinate amount of unguarded threes?
data says it's an ordinate amount.
3PA/FGA: 35.4 152th
That doesn't tell you a damn thing about the large number of unguarded three point shots we give up. That tells you that we guard shots inside of the arc better than we do shots beyond it. Of course when you don't put on heavy ball pressure, don't deny guard to guard passes, and generally play off to protect the paint, none of this is surprising.
I did say in chat that we had the inability to adjust and I was proven wrong. Putting more pressure on the ball and switching screens eliminated many of the open looks and surprise they shot poorly from the three point line in the second half. I'm sure the coaching adjustment had nothing to do with ISU's poor second half shooting, its just luck explained by some unrelated stat.
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That doesn't tell you a damn thing about the large number of unguarded three point shots we give up.
it almost certainly does.
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That doesn't tell you a damn thing about the large number of unguarded three point shots we give up.
it almost certainly does.
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oh crap, it looks like what we have here is a good ol' fashioned "what does a stat tell you" off
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Okay. You.basketball brains a question. Did fatigue have a bearing on DJamer or Stokes missing free throws at the end of the game. IMO the rotation of Bullnuts, Claws, DJamer, and Snud keeps them all fresh. Did the injury to Claws affect DJamer?
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Okay. You.basketball brains a question. Did fatigue have a bearing on DJamer or Stokes missing free throws at the end of the game. IMO the rotation of Bullnuts, Claws, DJamer, and Snud keeps them all fresh. Did the injury to Claws affect DJamer?
Stokes injured his ankle.
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Stokes is only a SO, that explains it
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Did fatigue have a bearing on DJamer missing free throws at the end of the game.
#notmypowerforward.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
Good points. The Stokes one where he turned it right back over was really frustrating still, and to me that was the nail in the coffin. The final one the game was pretty much over IMO. And the Wes one trying to pass to DJamer was in part a really good play by ISU. DJamer had a great seal and it looked to me like the lob would get there initially. Ervin most definitely was fouled, but that's rarely going to be called.
Still, its 4 TOs in key situations.
Wes throwing the pass to DJamer was a bad decision, although DJamer had sealed his defender. The angle -- throwing a pass over the top from the top of the 3 pt line to the middle of the paint is one of the more difficult ones on the floor. That pass gets stolen a lot.
But, the bigger issue, 4 turnovers in crunch time. This is our problem right now more than anything.
Secondarily, we don't have a killer in late game situations. Iowa State has Morris, which is probably the main reason (as well as some seasoned vets) that they'll finish ahead of us in conference this season.
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
Good points. The Stokes one where he turned it right back over was really frustrating still, and to me that was the nail in the coffin. The final one the game was pretty much over IMO. And the Wes one trying to pass to DJamer was in part a really good play by ISU. DJamer had a great seal and it looked to me like the lob would get there initially. Ervin most definitely was fouled, but that's rarely going to be called.
Still, its 4 TOs in key situations.
Wes throwing the pass to DJamer was a bad decision, although DJamer had sealed his defender. The angle -- throwing a pass over the top from the top of the 3 pt line to the middle of the paint is one of the more difficult ones on the floor. That pass gets stolen a lot.
But, the bigger issue, 4 turnovers in crunch time. This is our problem right now more than anything.
Secondarily, we don't have a killer in late game situations. Iowa State has Morris, which is probably the main reason (as well as some seasoned vets) that they'll finish ahead of us in conference this season.
The even bigger issue is the 20 point deficit early in the second half
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Wes and Kamau had some all-time Shane Southwell/Clent Stewart-esque turnovers with the game on the line.
Sneed finally got some minutes and some touches/good looks. Unfortunately, it took Claws being completely absent.
The crazy thing is we had 2 turnovers the first 16 minutes of the 2nd half, then 4 the last 4 minutes.
Three in the last 53 seconds.
Honestly, though, the only one that made me mad was the inbounds at the end.
Stokes made a great steal and was excited and, well, sophomore point guards are going to sophomore point guard.
Ervin's was after a great hustle play on the offensive rebound; a more seasoned veteran would have called timeout, there, but I'm not mad at him.
Good points. The Stokes one where he turned it right back over was really frustrating still, and to me that was the nail in the coffin. The final one the game was pretty much over IMO. And the Wes one trying to pass to DJamer was in part a really good play by ISU. DJamer had a great seal and it looked to me like the lob would get there initially. Ervin most definitely was fouled, but that's rarely going to be called.
Still, its 4 TOs in key situations.
Wes throwing the pass to DJamer was a bad decision, although DJamer had sealed his defender. The angle -- throwing a pass over the top from the top of the 3 pt line to the middle of the paint is one of the more difficult ones on the floor. That pass gets stolen a lot.
But, the bigger issue, 4 turnovers in crunch time. This is our problem right now more than anything.
Secondarily, we don't have a killer in late game situations. Iowa State has Morris, which is probably the main reason (as well as some seasoned vets) that they'll finish ahead of us in conference this season.
The even bigger issue is the 20 point deficit early in the second half
Yes, the 20 pt deficit was the biggest issue. We had 3 TOs in first 19 2nd half minutes. Those were spaced out and part of the flow.
The late Ervin/Stokes TOs were hurtful. The last one wasn't (down 4 under 10 seconds is 1/100 chance of winning). Honestly, the missed FTs were just as harmful as the 2 TOs I mentioned. We had four trips to the line. Could have shot 8 FTs. Only came away with 3 points there. But once again, can't play poorly and get down by 20.
WV got down 11 at our place in the 2nd half. Then took a 68-67 lead. Then we Outscored them by 5 the rest of the way. Their issue wasn't the 3 TOs and 7 pts in the last 10 Possessions. Their biggest issue was allowing a 12 pt lead in the 1st half turn into a 11 point deficit, 13:00 minutes later.
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Obviously it's tough to argue that putting ourselves in a 20 point hole cost us the game (I think they showed that this was the first game in Cats history that we ever even dug ourselves out of that kind of deficit), but the inability to finish close games against decent opponents is definitely a disturbing trend.