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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: 'taterblast on January 18, 2017, 10:27:11 AM
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is there any realistic scenario where we lose tonight and end up still making the tourney?
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we could win the big 12 tornament. ever heard of that one stan?
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we could win the big 12 tornament. ever heard of that one stan?
he said realistic
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Not for oscar, no
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Absolutely to make the NCAAs, it's hard to see a win before TCU comes in on 2/1 and then we go @Baylor, home for KU and @WVU.
Sure the remaining six games are all vs the lower half of the league but I don't see this team getting up off the mat after what is almost guaranteed to be a total blowout at WVU to go 6-0 or 5-1 to get the tournament. Especially if Woodard is healthy for OU.
I am not exactly sure how we will get there but 18 wins overall and 6 wins in conference for barest minimum of improvement seems like our destiny.
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we could win the big 12 tornament. ever heard of that one stan?
he said realistic
yeah i said realistic dlew jfc
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OSU has 0 wins in conference play.....
The arena will be half full, maybe......
Can't beat that , then you don't deserve Jack.....
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In my mind it is.
For Currie and probably 70% of KSU fans, probably not. (And not even close.)
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must win for the cats to make the tourney not a must win or bad enough loss for bruceketball to end though :frown:
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Can you guys imagine the rough ridin' smug look on curries face if we do happen to win? I mean oscar will be as cocky as ever as well. All while they both know that currie mumped up not hiring brad. Either way it's a treat
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I mean we should win. We are the 'better' team.
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I am hoping for a win and a strong showing. Short of that I am not sure how low my expectations will fall. I do believe we have so much more potential for really good basketball that we are exhibiting lately. Tonight could be decisive in the minds of the team. A good win might restore some confidence. Losing to a team that hasn't won a conference game could be detrimental for the rest of the season.
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I am hoping for a win and a strong showing. Short of that I am not sure how low my expectations will fall. I do believe we have so much more potential for really good basketball that we are exhibiting lately. Tonight could be decisive in the minds of the team. A good win might restore some confidence. Losing to a team that hasn't won a conference game could be detrimental for the rest of the season.
I agree with this, but I tend to be overly optimistic. This team is good enough to win 3-4 league road games. This team is probably a more complete team than OSU. However, OSU probably has the best player and best shooter on the floor. I also agree that a loss could be very bad.
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my desire to get rid of oscar outweighs the joy i would get from this team achieving its ceiling
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can you guys imagine 2018 and the cats possibly having new coaches for football and basketball??!!
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boosting weber into the tie with martin should be the motivation the players need.
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OSU has 0 wins in conference play.....
The arena will be half full, maybe......
Can't beat that , then you don't deserve Jack.....
This is no longer accurate.
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They had 6066 for ISU last week.
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He shouldn't be here next year if we don't make the NCAAs. Up to Brucey on how we get there, if we get there. So must win? No, he could win every game from here out. Realistically, he better win this one. But at same time, I don't get teh feeling Currie likes to admit he was wrong so oscar prolly gets another year either way. So hello apathy.
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They had 6066 for ISU last week.
Wow. Those crap heads already abandoned him? Their first few games were full and rowdy.
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osu fans don't deserve underwood, that is a fact and not an opinion.
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they'll be out for a cats v cows game. you can't compare that to playing isu.
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I mean, is there a scenario where oscar keeps his job and we don't make the tourney? I think there is that scenario, and therefore tonight is not a must win for oscar IMHO
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I mean, is there a scenario where oscar keeps his job and we don't make the tourney? I think there is that scenario, and therefore tonight is not a must win for oscar IMHO
All true.
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I don't think I have heard hardly any hotseat discussion. I think oscar can win 5 conf games, fall on his face in the conf tourny, miss the NCAA's and still be just fine for next year. If all that happens, I expect to hear hotseat rumors next year, though. However, if he puts on a decent showing the rest of conf(don't even need upsets, just close games), I think he can still fall on his fat tourny face and miss the NCAAs and be just fine next year.
:dunno:
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I don't think I have heard hardly any hotseat discussion. I think oscar can win 5 conf games, fall on his face in the conf tourny, miss the NCAA's and still be just fine for next year. If all that happens, I expect to hear hotseat rumors next year, though. However, if he puts on a decent showing the rest of conf(don't even need upsets, just close games), I think he can still fall on his fat tourny face and miss the NCAAs and be just fine next year.
:dunno:
:goodbyecruelworld:
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Throw your ammo out Pipe. It's happening. Especially if we sneak one from KU or WVU.
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If he makes the NIT, he may as well sign a lifetime contract.
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That win streak to end the year will be amazing
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That win streak to end the year will be amazing
Especially if Dean averages 20 during the streak.
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here's the deal- john currie will never allow us to be right about oscar
if oscar gets fired at the end of the season (not going to happen), it won't be because he lost this game
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Yeah we do, really bad if we are gonna make the tourney
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If he makes the NIT, he may as well sign a lifetime contract.
What a punch in the gut
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Well, it def takes the wind out of the 30 No Tourny sails, if change is what you want.
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Well, it def takes the wind out of the 30 No Tourny sails, if change is what you want.
kp30nt stands on its own two feet. in fact if there are any kp30nt enthusiasts who are trying to backdoor some fireweber sentiment onto kp30nt, i would prefer that those posters gtfo of kp30nt and find their own thing to root for.
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be awesome when we have about 22 wins and a 2 seed for the NIT!
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be awesome when we have about 22 wins and a 2 seed for the NIT!
We're dancing with 22 wins bruh. We might even be in that new Big 12 title game.
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how I see it going
[attachment deleted by admin]
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It's not a must win for Weber, but it's close to a must win for this team. Lose this road game and we are 0-3 with Isu BU and WV our next 3 road games.
I was hopeful we could get at least 1 of these 3 (at Tech,Osu,Isu) and then get 2 of our 3 tough home games (BU Ku WV). Lose tonight and it's extremely unlikely we do it
The last 6 games are all winnable, but going into them at 5-7 or 4-8,from a confidence standpoint, is not what we need. This team needs to be 6-6.
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kenpom will still be predicting 8-10 if kstate loses.
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kp30nt is novel at best if it doesn't end up being detrimental for oscar, and therefore it is secondary to anything that is detrimental for oscar.
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Yep.
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kp30nt is novel at best if it doesn't end up being detrimental for oscar, and therefore it is secondary to anything that is detrimental for oscar.
everybody has their own individual desires and ambitions, cns casey.
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kenpom will still be predicting 8-10 if kstate loses.
I bet every 8-10 Big 12 gets in the big dance. So Kp30nt@7-11 is the dream. Kp30nt@6-12 is the wet dream.
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i will take that bet, how much would you like to wager?
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If he makes the NIT, he may as well sign a lifetime contract.
Your tone in this thread is :curse: is there some new evidence out there about Currie being completely unwilling to gas oscar that I missed or has the unrelenting rhetoric of this talking point here finally gotten to you? I guess I'm all alone on this island now.
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I think he's very safe with an NIT bid this year, that's all I was getting at.
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I wouldn't say very safe. Gary Parrish said at the beginning of the season that it was NCAA or bust for oscar this year, he's actually said it more than once. I know he doesn't have a direct open line to John Currie's thought process but this came from somewhere, he has no incentive to make that up out of whole cloth. I heard someone else, Kirkoff maybe, say that not only does he have to make the tournament but he has to win a game. Honestly, I don't think even Currie knows at this point. I'm not sure he thinks in terms of a black and white postseason mile post needed to reach to keep his job, that seems silly. We'll see.
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I don't understand why you'd fire oscar for not making the tourney this year. He's already achieved about what a reasonable person would expect with this roster this season, pretty much regardless of what happens the rest of the season. If you fire him, it would really be for the two years prior to this one.
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Looking how Currie has managed other coaches, I don't think he has a slow hook. I also think program momentum would be lost without a bid causing action.
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I don't understand why you'd fire oscar for not making the tourney this year. He's already achieved about what a reasonable person would expect with this roster this season, pretty much regardless of what happens the rest of the season. If you fire him, it would really be for the two years prior to this one.
If that's true, about already doing beyond what's expected, then he should be gassed for what's truly a sad sack outfit. However, I don't think this is true at all, any of it.
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Looking how Currie has managed other coaches, I don't think he has a slow hook. I also think program momentum would be lost without a bid causing action.
We have only have two other examples of where it could be argued that action was possibly needed, women's basketball and baseball. Although I disagreed at the time the wbb move was clearly the right one. I don't know much about college baseball but I'm guessing a couple of tournament seasons and decent revenue has saved Brad Hill.
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Curdog won't do much, but General Meyer remembers the glory days. So change will come from the top.
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Looking how Currie has managed other coaches, I don't think he has a slow hook. I also think program momentum would be lost without a bid causing action.
We have only have two other examples of where it could be argued that action was possibly needed, women's basketball and baseball. Although I disagreed at the time the wbb move was clearly the right one. I don't know much about college baseball but I'm guessing a couple of tournament seasons and decent revenue has saved Brad Hill.
I believe those 2 tourney seasons were the first 2 in school history. I can remember a time when getting in the conference tournament was a feat.
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I'm not nearly the Currie cynic that most are, but I do believe he values attendance and fan interest, and right now those things aren't terrible. That's why I feel oscar is safe with an NIT. That could still change, but I think we'll be good enough the rest of the way to stay on the bubble and keep fans coming to games at a good clip.
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I don't understand why you'd fire oscar for not making the tourney this year. He's already achieved about what a reasonable person would expect with this roster this season, pretty much regardless of what happens the rest of the season. If you fire him, it would really be for the two years prior to this one.
If that's true, about already doing beyond what's expected, then he should be gassed for what's truly a sad sack outfit. However, I don't think this is true at all, any of it.
Did you expect more success to date based on the roster? I'm not talking about general program expectations, I'm talking about the expectations one would have had after last season ended and before this season began. I mean, didn't the coaches pick us to finish 8th?
If after four seasons an AD decided that year five is NCAA or bust, the AD should just consider the coach a failure and fire him then and there.
I'm not saying you or Parrish are wrong, I'm just saying the logic of that approach (by an AD) is dumb.
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i don't understand why low preseason expectations should HELP the coach's chance of returning after year 5.
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i don't understand why low preseason expectations should HELP the coach's chance of returning after year 5.
If an AD accepts lower expectations going into the season (which ours did when he didn't fire Weber last season), it's pretty dumb to fire that coach for meeting or exceeding those expectations (which oscar most likely will.)
Basically, Currie made this year's results acceptable when he didn't pull the trigger last year. Fire the coach for expectations of a sub-bubble team in year five, not for actually having a bubble team in year five when it's slightly better than what any reasonable observer would expect.
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how bad are we going to be next season w/o DJamer and Westicles? it feels inevitable at this point for oscar if its not this season its all but certain hes on the chopping block for next season
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If we play another cream puff noncon we will be about the same, a starting lineup of Stokes, Brown, Sneed, Wade and Maurice will score with anybody.
The upside is one of the 4 (not Maurice) becomes a closer and we could be like a Best Choice version of Hoi ball.
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I'm not nearly the Currie cynic that most are, but I do believe he values attendance and fan interest, and right now those things aren't terrible. That's why I feel oscar is safe with an NIT. That could still change, but I think we'll be good enough the rest of the way to stay on the bubble and keep fans coming to games at a good clip.
Totally agree. Basically, as long as the product on the field/court for any k-state sport is mildly interesting, and fans keep buying tickets and throwing money into the k-state piggy bank, Currie has no real incentive to change course.
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I'm not nearly the Currie cynic that most are, but I do believe he values attendance and fan interest, and right now those things aren't terrible. That's why I feel oscar is safe with an NIT. That could still change, but I think we'll be good enough the rest of the way to stay on the bubble and keep fans coming to games at a good clip.
I honestly hate making this comparison but WSU went to the NIT the season before made a significant talent jump. I think this team needs a few more years because of the talent we have and the jump as they have made in the last year. I think of how much Dean and kamau have improved this team will be a tournament threat in two years but this year they are stuck in a rut. We will be a great team in two years this year is met with fun moments
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Maybe, but there is a point that oscar will likely get a chance to see his 2nd shot of rebuilding his team through. He burned it down once to start over and I think Currie probably is giving him some leeway for that because he agreed with that BID. So this sophomore/freshman class will get at least one more season, maybe two, especially given they've at least met expectations so far this year.
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how bad are we going to be next season w/o DJamer and Westicles? it feels inevitable at this point for oscar if its not this season its all but certain hes on the chopping block for next season
We haven't seen Cartier play yet, which could level out what we lose from Westicles with our current set of players returning. The thing I think should be of utmost important is a big bodied big man. Maurice is serviceable, but like JO before him, is too skinny and isn't going to be able to body up against big opponents.
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how bad are we going to be next season w/o DJamer and Westicles? it feels inevitable at this point for oscar if its not this season its all but certain hes on the chopping block for next season
We haven't seen Cartier play yet, which could level out what we lose from Westicles with our current set of players returning. The thing I think should be of utmost important is a big bodied big man. Maurice is serviceable, but like JO before him, is too skinny and isn't going to be able to body up against big opponents.
Yes, replacing DJamer is the biggest question, but we return plenty of talent. No reason to think we're going to be some 3 win Big 12 team next year. We might not be good, but we might not be great, because oscar.
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We might not be good, but we might not be great
:Pirate:
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we're not bad either. we're the best at what we're not.
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ya this time isn't terrible, in spite of oscar
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I don't understand why you'd fire oscar for not making the tourney this year. He's already achieved about what a reasonable person would expect with this roster this season, pretty much regardless of what happens the rest of the season. If you fire him, it would really be for the two years prior to this one.
If that's true, about already doing beyond what's expected, then he should be gassed for what's truly a sad sack outfit. However, I don't think this is true at all, any of it.
Did you expect more success to date based on the roster? I'm not talking about general program expectations, I'm talking about the expectations one would have had after last season ended and before this season began. I mean, didn't the coaches pick us to finish 8th?
If after four seasons an AD decided that year five is NCAA or bust, the AD should just consider the coach a failure and fire him then and there.
I'm not saying you or Parrish are wrong, I'm just saying the logic of that approach (by an AD) is dumb.
I 100% agree that a tournament or bust edict is stupid, I said that already. I think how the program is trending is much more important. If we finish like 6th or 7th I don't think the program is making the progress it needs to make. I wanted him gone last year but I completely understand why an AD wouldn't do that after two down years. A third year of relative stagnation should get any power five coach fired.
People are mentioning attendance and revenue, and I understand that I've been saying that for two years. However, bear in mind that this is a similar setup in which he gassed Deb. She had two years of stagnant play but steady revenues and attendance. I think her being a general pain in the ass for Currie cost her a crack at a third year, and she was returning good talent including one of the three best players in the conference.
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People are mentioning attendance and revenue, and I understand that I've been saying that for two years. However, bear in mind that this is a similar setup in which he gassed Deb. She had two years of stagnant play but steady revenues and attendance. I think her being a general pain in the ass for Currie cost her a crack at a third year, and she was returning good talent including one of the three best players in the conference.
This is the biggest difference.
He didn't hire Deb and I don't think he particular liked her. He hired oscar and I think he likes him. I think he probably agreed with oscar turning over the roster (even if it was oscar's own recruits) and is willing to be more patient because of that, especially with fairly steady attendance/revenue numbers.
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To answer OP's original question, yes, tonight is a must win.
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is tomorrow night a must win for oscar? i say yes.
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Each home game (except KU) is a must win IMO. Also getting 1 of those final 3 roadies (OU Texas TCU). Now if we beat Ku and finish 7-2 at home, that would be more forgiving. 6-3 can't happen at Doom.
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
i don't believe this to be true
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
i don't believe this to be true
I don't want it to be true either but I couldn't stop myself from typing it.
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TCU is a must win. Absolutely.
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TCU is a must win. Absolutely.
who's on team "go frogs?"
:thumbs:
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TCU is a must win. Absolutely.
who's on team "go frogs?"
:thumbs:
Weirdos!
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No, of course not.
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If oscar lost to TCU at home, I think it might be a little too Wooly-esque for some of his remaining supporters. I don't know how much support he needs to keep JC happy, but losing home games against average teams would not be a good thing for oscar's job security.
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If oscar lost to TCU at home, I think it might be a little too Wooly-esque for some of his remaining supporters. I don't know how much support he needs to keep JC happy, but losing home games against average teams would not be a good thing for oscar's job security.
What indication is there that anyone John Currie hires could do anything that would not "keep JC happy?" Currie has shown no inclination to act like most AD's interested in winning do.
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As far as the NCAA tourney, tomorrow's game IS critical. Lose to TCU at home and the following 3 sure losses (@Baylor, KU, @WVU) send a 4-8 team led by a limp-wrist like oscar circling the toilet at warp speed.
Then again, winning would put the team at 5-7 and still spiraling downhill with oscar pushing the cart.
So nevermind, we're screwed either way.
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
This is so tired
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Currie cares more about you idiots that keep spending money to go watch this rough ridin' shitshow of a coach than he does about W's. He proved he doesn't care about winning basketball when he hired oscar rough ridin' Weber. AFAIC every dumbass that shows up to the game is part of the problem.
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Bruceuary, baby.
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
This is so tired
can you really see him firing him right now if we lost though? honestly
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If he doesn't make the tourney? Yes. This game would help that cause if you're a weirdo that's into such a thing.
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If he doesn't make the tourney? Yes. This game would help that cause if you're a weirdo that's into such a thing.
Obviously. That's not my point though. I just don't see currie after any possible loss this season making a brash decision and all us cat fans waking up the next morning to oscar being shitcanned
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unlike snyder, oscar doesn't really have any sure wins or sure losses
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If he doesn't make the tourney? Yes. This game would help that cause if you're a weirdo that's into such a thing.
Obviously. That's not my point though. I just don't see currie after any possible loss this season making a brash decision and all us cat fans waking up the next morning to oscar being shitcanned
Oh, in that case, no. I don't think many AD's would make such a knee jerk decision like that in season. Especially with a team on the bubble.
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As long as Currie is around there is almost no such thing as a must win or a can't lose game for oscar.
This is so tired
can you really see him firing him right now if we lost though? honestly
No I can't, that's not what Brock was hinting at though. There isn't an athletic director in the country that would fire him if we lost to TCU.
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I'm excited to see how all plays out. Nothing will surprise me. Beating KU as our only win the rest of the season wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. I excited for the forest.
As Editors said: I'm in your garden, but I want a forest.
As Blood Brothers said: Feed me to the forest.
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:dubious:
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Its time to slice Oscar's baloney.
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Its time to slice Oscar's baloney.
It's a rough ridin' shame you outed yourself. This is pure gold.
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here we are again. a game that feels like oscar needs to win if he wants to keep his job. he won at osu and lost at home to tcu previously in games that felt like this.
so what do you think - is tonight a must win for oscar?
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no
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If we don't win two of the next 3. I hope we lose them all. That's where I am at.
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FOR A TOURNEY BID? YES
TO KEEP HIS JOB? NO
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We are stuck with the loser until he retires. There is no point of even hoping he gets fired anymore, Currie doesn't care :flush:
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I don't want to say it's a must-lose and have the #kp30nt dream crushed in mid-February, but it's close.
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Today, I am an Amesite (Amesian? Amesor? Amesi? )
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must win for tournament and the new contract that comes with it and likely makes him retiring here all but guaranteed
he only needs to win 2 more to make the NIT and the likely 2 year extension for recruiting. At least that is what an AD that really believes in trajectory and has confidence in his ability to find a good coach would do.
I think the only way oscar gets fired is losing PLUS another round of multiple player defections (Wade leaving might do it alone) if the AD doesn't change
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Today, I am an Amesite (Amesian? Amesor? Amesi? )
What a strange walking tacoPAK that's gonna be.
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If we don't win two of the next 3. I hope we lose them all. That's where I am at.
I'm pretty much here too.
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It might be fun to see KSU lose every game they have left and just see how long Currie can do this.
That, to me, would be more entertaining than wins and a first round NCAA loss or first round NIT loss.
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It might be fun to see KSU lose every game they have left and just see how long Currie can do this.
That, to me, would be more entertaining than wins and a first round NCAA loss or first round NIT loss.
This. Do we really want 2-3 more years of oscar after a first round exit this year?
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Today, I am an Amesite (Amesian? Amesor? Amesi? )
What a strange walking tacoPAK that's gonna be.
I meant in spirit. I am not actually in that shot hole.
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Today, I am an Amesite (Amesian? Amesor? Amesi? )
What a strange walking tacoPAK that's gonna be.
I meant in spirit. I am not actually in that shot hole.
I know. But wherever you're taking the customary fork to a bag of doritos, it'll be strange that this time you're rooting for the flood aggies instead of mocking them.
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Today, I am an Amesite (Amesian? Amesor? Amesi? )
What a strange walking tacoPAK that's gonna be.
I meant in spirit. I am not actually in that shot hole.
I know. But wherever you're taking the customary fork to a bag of doritos, it'll be strange that this time you're rooting for the flood aggies instead of mocking them.
Yeah. It's not so bad when the other team cannot say "just like football." I don't know how Mizzou fans could tolerate that from us.
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If we don't win two of the next 3. I hope we lose them all. That's where I am at.
I'm pretty much here too.
I'm all in on losing here on out. Down 18 at home? Gmafb.
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#loseout
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The Baylor win is the worst thing to maybe ever happen to K-State basketball. If Baylor hadn't had their worst game of the season by far, we'd be talking about replacements for oscar right now, having lost seven in a row, two of which were to unranked teams at home.
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The Baylor win is what makes oscar oscar.
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I can't wait for _fan's post tonight.
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A win against Baylor isn't going to make or break the season for oscar.
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#loseout
If you love Kansas State basketball, you must be team #loseout.
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That's probably why Claws "misses" so many 3's. He is a native Kansan. He is taking one for the State.
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we're about to wreck some fools
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I don't want to say it's a must-lose and have the #kp30nt dream crushed in mid-February, but it's close.
GUT CHECK TIME