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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on December 17, 2016, 04:34:45 PM
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Great offense from the Cats. Cats continue to shoot it and a very good oboarding 2nd half evens out a bad 1st. Plus a really low turnover rate.
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DJamer is just a complete stud. Shooters continue to shoot. Stokes PG role continues to grow.
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I was nervous about this game. It seemed like they played good team ball, man some good passing. Oscar out coached Yewcrusty. I agree Deathbite stokes is getting his bearings back as a pg. His passes to DJamer are great. Patrick, Hot Horndog, and Sneed gave valuable minutes. Claws!! Gardeners and steers sound like good victims to torture.
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We were down 29-21 and scored 47 pts in the next 24 Possessions to take complete control of the game
Not only were we 18-20 FTs, we went 5-6 on our "And 1" 3pt plays, plus Sneed hit all 3 when he got fouled on 3pt shot
6 guys in double figures ... :Woot:
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
I just watched score updates today, but this makes me happy to hear from MIR.
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
Eh, this seems a but extreme. I stand by my statement that if the suspension forces oscar to play small more often it will be a positive for the team.
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
Eh, this seems a but extreme. I stand by my statement that if the suspension forces oscar to play small more often it will be a positive for the team.
It will help if Wade continues to rebound but DJamer is a legitimate rim protector that this, frankly any team, needs.
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3 of our games away from OOD, against BC, SLU and CSU...We pretty much beat down weaker teams in decent Conf.
Today, we scored on 18 of 22 Poss at one point on our way to being over 1.30 PPP for the game. Against BC, we shot 86 eFG% the final 29 minutes. Against SLU, both halves were above 1.20 PPP. Toss in those 3 teams only shot 42.4 eFG% against Us.
The Maryland loss still stings. Played so well in 2nd half of that one
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3 of our games away from OOD, against BC, SLU and CSU...We pretty much beat down weaker teams in decent Conf.
Today, we scored on 18 of 22 Poss at one point on our way to being over 1.30 PPP for the game. Against BC, we shot 86 eFG% the final 29 minutes. Against SLU, both halves were above 1.20 PPP. Toss in those 3 teams only shot 42.4 eFG% against Us.
The Maryland loss still stings. Played so well in 2nd half of that one
Defense hurt us in the Maryland game, how too many breakdowns. Having offensive success away from home is a good sign.
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
I agree. I won't argue that this OOC is awful, but K-State has dominated the bad and average teams on their schedule and they've played well away from home.
The shooting stats are legit by this point. Over 1/3 of the way through the season we are shooting over 40% from 3. 5 guys shoot 39% or better. Our worst shooter is at 33%. It is possible that the percentage will drop in Big 12 play because we'll be on the road more and we'll face better defenses overall (but not better "3PT defenses, that's just dumb), but this team has proven it can shoot and will shoot in the upper 30s in Big 12 play. Making shots in oscar's offense has proven to be the biggest indicator of success in his coaching career.
This team also does oscar/Lowry things well. Oboarding, forcing TOs, and a really good FG% defense. MIR is right about DJamer and the rim presence he brings as indicated by 2PT% and block%. Of course the much better offenses we will see in Big 12 play will change that a bit, but this will still be an above average Big 12 defense.
IMHO, 10 Big 12 wins should be the minimum expectation. Do that and we are a tourney lock because of the depth and strength of this league, regardless of one of the worst OOC schedules K-State has ever seen.
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Over 1/3 of the way through the season we are shooting over 40% from 3. 5 guys shoot 39% or better. Our worst shooter is at 33%. It is possible that the percentage will drop in Big 12 play because we'll be on the road more and we'll face better defenses overall (but not better "3PT defenses, that's just dumb), but this team has proven it can shoot and will shoot in the upper 30s in Big 12 play.
their team 3% will drop because most of them aren't this good of shooters. i'll be surprised if wade, stokes and brown don't finish the year with lower %s than they have now. stokes, i think can be a high 30s guy, brown and wade are mid 30s at best.
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Over 1/3 of the way through the season we are shooting over 40% from 3. 5 guys shoot 39% or better. Our worst shooter is at 33%. It is possible that the percentage will drop in Big 12 play because we'll be on the road more and we'll face better defenses overall (but not better "3PT defenses, that's just dumb), but this team has proven it can shoot and will shoot in the upper 30s in Big 12 play.
their team 3% will drop because most of them aren't this good of shooters. i'll be surprised if wade, stokes and brown don't finish the year with lower %s than they have now. stokes, i think can be a high 30s guy, brown and wade are mid 30s at best.
Those aren't the two guys I'd bet against.
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This team is fun to watch and I'm 100% all in. When we were down early I started thinking about how awesome DJamer has been and his career would be completely wasted. This team is 100% making the NCAA tournament. I will renew my objection about our big depth, we can't have Budke gunning threes in conference play, but if DJamer can stay healthy and play 33-35 min/g we're going to win 9-12 conference games.
Eh, this seems a but extreme. I stand by my statement that if the suspension forces oscar to play small more often it will be a positive for the team.
It will help if Wade continues to rebound but DJamer is a legitimate rim protector that this, frankly any team, needs.
I don't mean to be a hater since (as I was informed by the broadcast yesterday) he was headed for the Colorado School of Mines to play guard before the last minute switch, but Budke has an uncanny ability to be around rebounds but not actually grab them. It's unlike anything I've seen.
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doesn't seem like we're on pace for 55% from 3, but the b12 is weird
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Impressive performance indeed, even with the crap OOC, this team has performed about as good as it can against most opponents. I'm not ready to claim we'll win 9 or 10 conference games yet -- still worried about our frontcourt depth, but the conference is not full of stud front lines, so who knows. Offensive spacing yesterday was really good and oscar does seem to be connected with this team more than in the past. I don't sense that the players look at oscar as a hack -- like some past rosters have.
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By my warped brain figuring, Westicles and DJamer are the last players to have Frank on them. Players who learned Frankways, especially toughness, took these two under their wings when they were newbies. I see Gipness in DJamer.
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Over 1/3 of the way through the season we are shooting over 40% from 3. 5 guys shoot 39% or better. Our worst shooter is at 33%. It is possible that the percentage will drop in Big 12 play because we'll be on the road more and we'll face better defenses overall (but not better "3PT defenses, that's just dumb), but this team has proven it can shoot and will shoot in the upper 30s in Big 12 play.
their team 3% will drop because most of them aren't this good of shooters. i'll be surprised if wade, stokes and brown don't finish the year with lower %s than they have now. stokes, i think can be a high 30s guy, brown and wade are mid 30s at best.
Brown can be a really good shooter. Most guys improve in their 2nd year and over their career and he shot 34.5% in Big 12 play last year. He's now 35% for his career. I think he'll finish in the upper 30s this year.
Stokes was 36% in 8 conference games, 34% for the year, and now 36% for his career. I think he and Brown will be about the same for their careers.
Wade is a wildcard. I doubt he'll continue at this 45% pace, but he's better than the 28% he shot last year (21% in Big 12). Maybe he's having his Shane Southwell outlier year. We'll see, but I'd guess he'll finish the year in the mid to low 30s and shoot around 30% in Big 12.
Westicles is another bit of a wildcard. He's at a respectable 33% and last year's 20% was his worst. He's right at 30% for his career.
I think Sneed is a legit shooter, but he probably hits a freshman funk at some point and likely won't stay at 41%. I'd say mid 30s is attainable.
Ervin is kind of the Martavious of this team. He hasn't shot a lot, but 40% is nice after 17% last year. Probably finish around 30% or so I'd guess.
I think this team is more than capable of 36-38% for the year and 33-35% through Big 12 play minimum.
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I was at the game yesterday and was hoping to watch a replay of the game broadcast but am failing to find it at the usual spots. Does anybody know where I might be able to stream a replay?
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Over 1/3 of the way through the season we are shooting over 40% from 3. 5 guys shoot 39% or better. Our worst shooter is at 33%. It is possible that the percentage will drop in Big 12 play because we'll be on the road more and we'll face better defenses overall (but not better "3PT defenses, that's just dumb), but this team has proven it can shoot and will shoot in the upper 30s in Big 12 play.
their team 3% will drop because most of them aren't this good of shooters. i'll be surprised if wade, stokes and brown don't finish the year with lower %s than they have now. stokes, i think can be a high 30s guy, brown and wade are mid 30s at best.
Brown can be a really good shooter. Most guys improve in their 2nd year and over their career and he shot 34.5% in Big 12 play last year. He's now 35% for his career. I think he'll finish in the upper 30s this year.
Stokes was 36% in 8 conference games, 34% for the year, and now 36% for his career. I think he and Brown will be about the same for their careers.
Wade is a wildcard. I doubt he'll continue at this 45% pace, but he's better than the 28% he shot last year (21% in Big 12). Maybe he's having his Shane Southwell outlier year. We'll see, but I'd guess he'll finish the year in the mid to low 30s and shoot around 30% in Big 12.
Westicles is another bit of a wildcard. He's at a respectable 33% and last year's 20% was his worst. He's right at 30% for his career.
I think Sneed is a legit shooter, but he probably hits a freshman funk at some point and likely won't stay at 41%. I'd say mid 30s is attainable.
Ervin is kind of the Martavious of this team. He hasn't shot a lot, but 40% is nice after 17% last year. Probably finish around 30% or so I'd guess.
I think this team is more than capable of 36-38% for the year and 33-35% through Big 12 play minimum.
I would doubt we would regress that far. Under Weber we usually shoot better in conference play. Staff also wants to get Patrick more involved and the school break is a good time to get him up to speed.
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
if someone wants to dig up their hs numbers, that'd help a lot.
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If we can get Barry & Kam (36-61 combined) to be better FT shooters, then I will feel better. Some of Barry's misses have been bricks. Troublesome that these two are 60% and not 75-80.
Sneed, Wes, and DJamer have been pretty consistent all year. Those 3 are at 76.5%.
Dean started out bad, but has now made 15 of last 19.
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
if someone wants to dig up their hs numbers, that'd help a lot.
That's like asking "if Phil Mickelson is so good at golf why isn't he making his putts?"
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
That's like asking "if Phil Mickelson is so good at golf why isn't he making his putts?"
no it's not.
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
That's like asking "if Phil Mickelson is so good at golf why isn't he making his putts?"
no it's not.
My question is.does.he golf.hard?
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
if someone wants to dig up their hs numbers, that'd help a lot.
I'd say sample size as much as anything. Neither Brown nor Stokes are high FT rate guys and will both have twice as many 3PT attempts as FT attempts. Stokes was a 72% shooter from the FT line last year while going from 34% to 41% from 3. I'd say his 56% FT% this year is an anomoly. Brown is at 61% FT%, down slightly from 64% with the improvement in 3PT%. For both, I think their FT% will settle around 70% in Big 12 play. Westicles has made steady improvements in FT% while being a decent FT rate guy (his %shots is up this year though). I think lower 30s from 3 makes sense. Wade is more of a strange case and I don't think his 46% from 3 is sustainable, but he's still a good enough shooter to be effective. Sneed appears to just be a good shooter with 80% FT and 41% 3PT. Ervin isn't going to shoot a lot, so I think his numbers have a minimal effect.
I get the point correlating FT% to 3PT% and shooting ability, but I don't think its always going to be a solid correlation. I see that we've got 3 guys that have over 40 attempts each (nearly 4 attempts per game each) and all are shooting 39% or better. To me that shows we have multiple good shooters and the shooting for this team will be sustainable because you have to guard us on the perimeter and in the post because DJamer has become so effective scoring inside.
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
if someone wants to dig up their hs numbers, that'd help a lot.
I'd say sample size as much as anything. Neither Brown nor Stokes are high FT rate guys and will both have twice as many 3PT attempts as FT attempts. Stokes was a 72% shooter from the FT line last year while going from 34% to 41% from 3. I'd say his 56% FT% this year is an anomoly. Brown is at 61% FT%, down slightly from 64% with the improvement in 3PT%. For both, I think their FT% will settle around 70% in Big 12 play. Westicles has made steady improvements in FT% while being a decent FT rate guy (his %shots is up this year though). I think lower 30s from 3 makes sense. Wade is more of a strange case and I don't think his 46% from 3 is sustainable, but he's still a good enough shooter to be effective. Sneed appears to just be a good shooter with 80% FT and 41% 3PT. Ervin isn't going to shoot a lot, so I think his numbers have a minimal effect.
I get the point correlating FT% to 3PT% and shooting ability, but I don't think its always going to be a solid correlation. I see that we've got 3 guys that have over 40 attempts each (nearly 4 attempts per game each) and all are shooting 39% or better. To me that shows we have multiple good shooters and the shooting for this team will be sustainable because you have to guard us on the perimeter and in the post because DJamer has become so effective scoring inside.
Barry was 198 for 279 as a senior in high school from the charity stripe. The stroke is there.
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if they've improved as shooters, why isn't it showing up in their ft%?
That's like asking "if Phil Mickelson is so good at golf why isn't he making his putts?"
no it's not.
Yes it is. Nobody shoots free throws the same as shots taken at game speed. FT's are 90% mental.
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At this point I can't believe that this collective shooting improvement (from Brown, Stokes, Wade, Westicles, Ervin) is some sort of anomaly. These guys worked and got better in the offseason with their shots. You don't go from .305 (117/384 in 33 games) to .397 (60/151 in 11 games) behind the arc by accident. Every one of them has improved.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0OF4ibUAAAHEtk.png:large)
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I'm still only cautiously optimistic. Playing a good defense can have a significant impact on shot percentage.
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I'm still only cautiously optimistic. Playing a good defense can have a significant impact on shot percentage.
KU, Baylor, and West Virginia have really good defenses through the OOC. Others are solid, but I'm not sure we'll see great defenses night in and night out in this league.
Also, 3pt% usually doesn't drop much in conference play and often gets better; the regressions will come in TO%, 2PT%, and maybe OR% against better defenses. Tougher 3PT% "defense" in league play isn't a reality.
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At this point I can't believe that this collective shooting improvement (from Brown, Stokes, Wade, Westicles, Ervin) is some sort of anomaly. These guys worked and got better in the offseason with their shots. You don't go from .305 (117/384 in 33 games) to .397 (60/151 in 11 games) behind the arc by accident. Every one of them has improved.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0OF4ibUAAAHEtk.png:large)
If I remember correctly Kam, Dean and Barry all shot around 40% their senior year. It wasn't like they were bad shooters coming in. We are running better offense in general and also have so natural progression.
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Barry was 198 for 279 as a senior in high school from the charity stripe. The stroke is there.
that's good info, thanks. so 69% for his last three years in bball. that's pretty online with a 3% in the low to mid 30s, at least when paired with how frequently he tends to shoot.
i'd be willing to bet my predictions, if anyone wants to.
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Welp.
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people who have watched ksu hoops this season and also other big 12 teams:
How do we start the first six league games:
Texas
@KU
OU
@TTU
Baylor
@OSU
my first instinct is 2-4
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2-4
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3-3, but Texas is the make or break game. If the Cat lay an egg in that game, it's essentially wrap up the season and start the coaching search.
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people who have watched ksu hoops this season and also other big 12 teams:
How do we start the first six league games:
Texas
@KU
OU
@TTU
Baylor
@OSU
my first instinct is 2-4
should win Texas, OU @Tech if we are planning on being bubble or better. 2-4 or worse definitely possible though.
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that @ tech game will be so important.
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3-3 would be enjoyable
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Also i just realized we get to see Rick Barnes only a year after his departure from UT. What a treat that is.
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4-2 would shock the world
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people who have watched ksu hoops this season and also other big 12 teams:
How do we start the first six league games:
Texas
@KU
OU
@TTU
Baylor
@OSU
my first instinct is 2-4
four and two
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people who have watched ksu hoops this season and also other big 12 teams:
How do we start the first six league games:
Texas -W
@KU -L
OU -W
@TTU -W
Baylor - W
@OSU - L (but only because big 12 refs)
my first instinct is 2-4
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i liked the osu part FSD
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DJamer is a freak!