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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: renocat on December 06, 2016, 02:22:11 AM

Title: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: renocat on December 06, 2016, 02:22:11 AM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-dollar125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/ar-AAlbC2l
Joe Cool Obama administration failed.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 06, 2016, 04:49:24 PM
Government isn't created to make money like business though reno
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 06, 2016, 05:25:48 PM
Government isn't created to make money like business though reno

What are you trying to say here?
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 06, 2016, 06:47:28 PM
Government isn't created to make money like business though reno

What are you trying to say here?

Running the gov't like a business is dumb dumb
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 06, 2016, 08:12:44 PM
Government isn't created to make money like business though reno

What are you trying to say here?

Running the gov't like a business is dumb dumb

The article was about $125 billion in bureaucratic waste. Spending money you don't have is dumb dumb
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: star seed 7 on December 06, 2016, 08:18:24 PM
Donald J "king of debt" trump will clean that right up
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on December 06, 2016, 08:55:54 PM
To the extent businesses are run efficiently, government can absolutely be run like a business.

Libtards love to talk about government "investments", but weirdly get angry when it people want it run more like a business.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 06, 2016, 09:42:15 PM
To the extent businesses are run efficiently, government can absolutely be run like a business.

Libtards love to talk about government "investments", but weirdly get angry when it people want it run more like a business.

Gov't can also run like a non-profit, fin tech, coal mine, investment bank, alien starship, and venture capitalist if you just want to cherry pick certain pieces of each.

Nobody is getting angry FSD, it's just dumb dumb to think a business person/mindset will be a good statesman.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on December 07, 2016, 09:01:13 AM
It's dumb because I say so!!!! :shakesfist:

Such irrational anger. So bizarre.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 07, 2016, 12:08:06 PM
 :Rusty:
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 08, 2016, 11:54:32 AM
A business model would benefit government greatly.  I work in government and as the government gets bigger the less efficient it becomes.  Which is why it baffles me that anyone would want to put more responsibility on the government.  If you responsibly incorporate a business model I believe that is could eliminate or at least alleviate much of the inefficiencies.  Unfortunately, that could mean job loss because much of the inefficiencies are made up jobs so some one can keep their job or jobs that do what someone else is already doing.  Government is such an infuriating profession watching all the wasted time and money and really their is very little that can be done unless the system is turned on it's head.  Too many people expect the government to "take care" of them.  We don't want to do this in our own life let's see if the government will do it.  This is from municipalities to the State level to the Federal.  Just people wanting hand outs.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: star seed 7 on December 08, 2016, 12:02:49 PM
Profits over people, sounds like a great government mantra
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: CNS on December 08, 2016, 12:03:14 PM
I am a shareholder, though   :dunno:
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 08, 2016, 01:53:54 PM
A business model would benefit government greatly.  I work in government and as the government gets bigger the less efficient it becomes.

well, i work in business and it's the most lollably mumped up and inefficient thing you can imagine.  i won't argue that gov't is better, but i'd like to see the people always claiming that gov't is worse offer some evidence for once.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: DQ12 on December 08, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
A business model would benefit government greatly.  I work in government and as the government gets bigger the less efficient it becomes.

well, i work in business and it's the most lollably mumped up and inefficient thing you can imagine.  i won't argue that gov't is better, but i'd like to see the people always claiming that gov't is worse offer some evidence for once.
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 08, 2016, 02:25:31 PM
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.

no, why would it?  if a company had debt, would that be evidence that it is poorly run?
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: cfbandyman on December 08, 2016, 02:50:44 PM
A business model would benefit government greatly.  I work in government and as the government gets bigger the less efficient it becomes.

well, i work in business and it's the most lollably mumped up and inefficient thing you can imagine.  i won't argue that gov't is better, but i'd like to see the people always claiming that gov't is worse offer some evidence for once.
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.

More like the deficit than the debt necessarily, though deficit leads to debts. I would agree that there are plenty of excess bureaucracies and bloat in government that needs to cut and reduced. That being said the inability to raise taxes, or make it more efficient to get taxes from corporations and the wealthy has starved and fed and strangleholded the government's ability raise the funds to pay for things. I think the idea of running the government like a business in theory sounds good, and there are major goals of doing so that I think can work and a worthy of striving for (balanced budget, less waste, more efficiency) but in practice it's dogged by politics and the whims of voters. Not only that if you argue from the point it's to make a profit, well, the profit should be in people's happiness and the shareholders are the citizens, who ultimately are footing the bills.

Also, it just depends who you are most comfortable with dealing with the issues at hand. Just because you unbloat government, you might solve the problems of government inefficiencies but the roles and responsibilities that were being performed by the government go elsewhere, they don't just go away. Who picks up the slack?
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: DQ12 on December 08, 2016, 03:16:54 PM
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.

no, why would it?  if a company had debt, would that be evidence that it is poorly run?
I'm not an economist or a businessman at all, but if a corporation was trillions of dollars in debt...then yeah I'd say it seems like it's maybe not being run very well.  But again, i'm a complete noob on this sort of thing. 
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 08, 2016, 03:18:57 PM
I'm not an economist or a businessman at all, but if a corporation was trillions of dollars in debt...then yeah I'd say it seems like it's maybe not being run very well.  But again, i'm a complete noob on this sort of thing.

indeed.  likewise if it had no debt, that would be unusual and probably suboptimal.


Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: MakeItRain on December 08, 2016, 10:07:53 PM
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.

no, why would it?  if a company had debt, would that be evidence that it is poorly run?
I'm not an economist or a businessman at all, but if a corporation was trillions of dollars in debt...then yeah I'd say it seems like it's maybe not being run very well.  But again, i'm a complete noob on this sort of thing.

So trump is a bad businessman?
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2016, 10:10:52 PM
I don't think he's all that good at it.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on December 08, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
The inability to fire anyone is the downfall of government. 90% of the workforce is on full salary and benefits and works only when they've reached the end of the internet. To compound the issue, the people in charge spend they're entire day trying to justify a larger budget. Our federal government is stupid large, rife with stupid levels of redundancy, and does very little for the individual person.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: CNS on December 09, 2016, 08:46:23 AM
That's part of it.  The other part is that they make jack crap compared to their private counterparts and therefore draw only ppl that aren't actually good at that job.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 09, 2016, 09:11:00 AM
Maybe we should run the govt as a reality show?
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: wetwillie on December 09, 2016, 09:27:50 AM
Maybe we should run the govt as a reality show?

Trump is way in front of you already.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: CNS on December 09, 2016, 09:43:53 AM
Maybe we should run the govt as a reality show?

If we got all the associated info, I may be fine with this.  I mean, if we knew the details, ramifications, etc, why not let us all vote on it on the reg?  May actually cause some of the apathetic to reengage.  May cause some of the dumb dumbs to get informed.  Either way, it may cause the govt to actually represent their constituents given that there could be constant pressure to do so.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 09, 2016, 10:24:48 AM
Does the national debt count as evidence?  Not that the debt itself is some damning thing, but I think it at least shows evidence that the government isn't being run by people who are all that concerned with the state's bottom line.

no, why would it?  if a company had debt, would that be evidence that it is poorly run?
Depends on the debt.  A company takes out loans to increase inventory or build infrastructure that will increase revenue.  Government goes into debt to help pay for things for the citizens without any chance of recouping those costs outside of raising taxes, which I think most of us would agree is the suck.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 09, 2016, 11:37:31 AM
the distinction you are drawing is artificial.  the use of govt debt is usually to generate an economic return for citizens just as the use of corporate debt is to generate an economic return for owners.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: wetwillie on December 09, 2016, 11:53:46 AM
I think the revenue being less than expenses every year might be a cause for concern
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Phil Titola on December 09, 2016, 12:10:48 PM
I think the revenue being less than expenses every year might be a cause for concern

Something a good business would recognize and slash income (taxes) to fix!
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 09, 2016, 12:23:18 PM
I think the revenue being less than expenses every year might be a cause for concern

it might be, but it wouldn't necessarily be.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: Poster formerly known as jthutch on December 09, 2016, 02:43:09 PM
the distinction you are drawing is artificial.  the use of govt debt is usually to generate an economic return for citizens just as the use of corporate debt is to generate an economic return for owners.
In theory taxes are paid to cover services to citizens but most of it is to pay salaries to people who are working as hard as possible not to accomplish much (obviously that does not include me or my staff we rock  :D)
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 09, 2016, 02:53:23 PM
most of it is to pay salaries to people who are working as hard as possible not to accomplish much.

i think that's the same in private business.  it certainly is in the company i work for and among the clients of the company that i deal with, most of the time.
Title: Re: Time to Apply business principles to the bureaucracy
Post by: sys on December 09, 2016, 02:57:20 PM
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=27807.msg1653268#msg1653268


i rest my case.