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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: bucket on October 04, 2016, 08:08:52 PM
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These two are bickering hens
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i can't muster the energy
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It's really bad. Not sure it's worth getting boozed up for.
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Moderator stinks
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I wish it was triple split screen with the mod chick :drool:
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This is my first experience with Hillary's guy and I'm pretty sure I hate him.
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Shoot, now they're agreeing on stuff! :curse:
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Did Mike Pence try to say people in the inner city should be in favor of stop and frisk? I was walking back into my living room when he was talking, but that's what I heard.
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i'd love to frisk the moderator
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Lots of dancing around the questions being asked. Pence seems like he needs to avoid some of Trump's ideas, but I don't think he is debating very effectively. I never know why I really watch these things.
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Cyber! :D
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Lots of dancing around the questions being asked. Pence seems like he needs to avoid some of Trump's ideas, but I don't think he is debating very effectively. I never know why I really watch these things.
I've enjoyed him much more than Kaine.
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I think I'm tapping out
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The moderator's eyelashes are outrageous
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Pence has had a few good one-liners
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I think I'm tapping out
Ya, this is nothing like Uncle Joe and Paul Ryan
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Tim Kaine is kind of an bad person.
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This is my first experience with Hillary's guy and I'm pretty sure I hate him.
He is oscar Weber.
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i want tim kaine to shout aggressively "i'm tim kaine, bitch" and stare at pence in response to at least one of his questions/rebuttals, and i'm not really sure why.
huge tim kaine fan, tho, obviously.
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Uppercut by Mike Pence. Only 10 cents on the dollar of the Clinton Foundation goes to the people and the Clinton's use the funds to travel the world.
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Is kaine wearing his Jayhawk sticker?
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Is kaine wearing his Jayhawk sticker?
he's a great tsc'er.
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I can predict every time Tim is going to interrupt, how do I do it? Simple, everytime Pence is kicking Hills ass, little Bitch Timmy butts in. :flush:
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Should have known these two would buckle down on abortion.
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I can predict every time Tim is going to interrupt, how do I do it? Simple, everytime Pence is kicking Hills ass, little Bitch Timmy butts in. :flush:
From what I can tell, Tim has no idea when to interrupt. It's awkward unlike when Trump does it. Trump does it with authority. Kaine is really bad at it.
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Tim Kaine is getting his ass kicked.
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Tim Kaine is getting his ass kicked.
are we watching the same debate?
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His interruptions are very terrible, his faith answer was terrible, his 9/11 attack on Trump's taxes was very terrible.
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he's a clumsy interrupter, i agree. i thought he was fine on everything else. pence also fine.
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9/11
Did you hear him interject RP-style that he was in Virginia???
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he's a clumsy interrupter, i agree. i thought he was fine on everything else. pence also fine.
His line about Donald Trump not supporting the firefighters on 9/11 because he didn't pay taxes is awful and stupid and completely nonsensical.
@Trim oh yeah, it was mind boggling.
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His line about Donald Trump not supporting the firefighters on 9/11 because he didn't pay taxes is awful and stupid and completely nonsensical.
i didn't hear the line, but what you just said he said makes perfect sense.
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Goddamn, if he'd only said something about hearing the sirens...
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It was an obvious strategy, like a overmatched fighter going for the clench to avoid knockout, I'm not suggesting Pence is a great debater but that his campaign has better solutions to the problems of this country.
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His line about Donald Trump not supporting the firefighters on 9/11 because he didn't pay taxes is awful and stupid and completely nonsensical.
i didn't hear the line, but what you just said he said makes perfect sense.
Trump pursued a tax break on his property for 9/11, but connecting the 15 years no taxes thing is dumb. There is a good reason for there to be offsets for people. Trump is a bad businessman, he may have shady business dealings, his taxes may be embarrassing, those all would be things to criticize. But saying because Donald Trump maybe didn't pay taxes in 2001 and that means he's not supporting our first responders is idiotic.
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It was an obvious strategy, like a overmatched fighter going for the clench to avoid knockout, I'm not suggesting Pence is a great debater but that his campaign has better solutions to the problems of this country.
:lol:
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Trump pursued a tax break on his property for 9/11, but connecting the 15 years no taxes thing is dumb. There is a good reason for there to be offsets for people. Trump is a bad businessman, he may have shady business dealings, his taxes may be embarrassing, those all would be things to criticize. But saying because Donald Trump maybe didn't pay taxes in 2001 and that means he's not supporting our first responders is idiotic.
taxes pay for services, a man purportedly building enormous wealth while not paying taxes is not supporting those services and displaces additional tax burdens onto others. that's a pretty basic and perfectly logical connection to make.
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Trump pursued a tax break on his property for 9/11, but connecting the 15 years no taxes thing is dumb. There is a good reason for there to be offsets for people. Trump is a bad businessman, he may have shady business dealings, his taxes may be embarrassing, those all would be things to criticize. But saying because Donald Trump maybe didn't pay taxes in 2001 and that means he's not supporting our first responders is idiotic.
taxes pay for services, a man purportedly building enormous wealth while not paying taxes is not supporting those services and displaces additional tax burdens onto others. that's a pretty basic and perfectly logical connection to make.
Trump lost a tremendous amount of money, several times. Our tax system rightly offsets business losses to allow businesses to recoup in good years. To demagogue that so you can shoehorn in 9/11, is completely bizarre and actively makes everyone stupider.
It is even weirder, when there is a very direct case of Trump taking 9/11 bailout money for his business.
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Trump pursued a tax break on his property for 9/11, but connecting the 15 years no taxes thing is dumb. There is a good reason for there to be offsets for people. Trump is a bad businessman, he may have shady business dealings, his taxes may be embarrassing, those all would be things to criticize. But saying because Donald Trump maybe didn't pay taxes in 2001 and that means he's not supporting our first responders is idiotic.
taxes pay for services, a man purportedly building enormous wealth while not paying taxes is not supporting those services and displaces additional tax burdens onto others. that's a pretty basic and perfectly logical connection to make.
Trump lost a tremendous amount of money, several times. Our tax system rightly offsets business losses to allow businesses to recoup in good years. To demagogue that so you can shoehorn in 9/11, is completely bizarre and actively makes everyone stupider.
It is even weirder, when there is a very direct case of Trump taking 9/11 bailout money for his business.
A 9/11 bailout and tax deductions are very different.
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Trump lost a tremendous amount of money, several times. Our tax system rightly offsets business losses to allow businesses to recoup in good years. To demagogue that so you can shoehorn in 9/11, is completely bizarre and actively makes everyone stupider.
if i can reframe, it's not that kaine's answer was illogical, it was that you disagreed with it. on that basis, pence got destroyed in the debate in my mind, but i don't consider that a fair, or useful, way of evaluating either man's performance.
i don't agree that trump (from what i know/assume) was fairly taxed, i think he should have paid much more. i don't blame him for not paying more, but i do blame him for not proposing to change the tax codes that allowed him to avoid taxation. so i disagree with both you and trump.
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Do any of you morons think that a guy who Forbes says is worth like 3.5 billion hasn't paid an assload of taxes?
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If you wanna talk about a guy who doesn't pay much fed income tax, that would be lib supporter Warren Buffett and I don't blame him either. Dumb topic unless you are promoting new tax law.
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actually, that's not true. i do blame him a bit, in a collective sense. the tax code did not spring from it's father's forehead, fully formed. it was written by politicians, influenced by members of the moneyed classes that includes trump's family, for the benefit of those classes. i find it not particularly convincing to naively maintain that one merely follows the letter of the law when one is also part and parcel to the crafting of the law.
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Eric Trump needs to get the hell off of CNN's set
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How dare someone not pay tribute to the Great Government God. Government God is here to care for all. How dare anyone take advantage of the law to keep money their business for their families. If this deduction is so bad, Senators Clinton or Obama could have sponsored legislation to close the loophole. Tonight clearly defined what Hillary considers her standard for feminism = unfettered killing a baby up to the minute before they are born, that the unborn is hamburger, and we have.to pay for.abortion. It is okay to use the largesse of the federal to intervene to end life, but not protect it. I wish Grump would quit, and Pence.take his place.
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actually, that's not true. i do blame him a bit, in a collective sense. the tax code did not spring from it's father's forehead, fully formed. it was written by politicians, influenced by members of the moneyed classes that includes trump's family, for the benefit of those classes. i find it not particularly convincing to naively maintain that one merely follows the letter of the law when one is also part and parcel to the crafting of the law.
This is precious, you are supporting Hill who is far more in the pocket of the moneyed classes you speak of. Then out the other side of your mouth bitch about a guy who has paid more in tax than she could earn in 10 of her bloodsucking lifetimes. Congrats tard
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actually, that's not true. i do blame him a bit, in a collective sense. the tax code did not spring from it's father's forehead, fully formed. it was written by politicians, influenced by members of the moneyed classes that includes trump's family, for the benefit of those classes. i find it not particularly convincing to naively maintain that one merely follows the letter of the law when one is also part and parcel to the crafting of the law.
This is precious, you are supporting Hill who is far more in the pocket of the moneyed classes you speak of. Then out the other side of your mouth bitch about a guy who has paid more in tax than she could earn in 10 of her bloodsucking lifetimes. Congrats tard
:lol:
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actually, that's not true. i do blame him a bit, in a collective sense. the tax code did not spring from it's father's forehead, fully formed. it was written by politicians, influenced by members of the moneyed classes that includes trump's family, for the benefit of those classes. i find it not particularly convincing to naively maintain that one merely follows the letter of the law when one is also part and parcel to the crafting of the law.
This is precious, you are supporting Hill who is far more in the pocket of the moneyed classes you speak of. Then out the other side of your mouth bitch about a guy who has paid more in tax than she could earn in 10 of her bloodsucking lifetimes. Congrats tard
you don't know this
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that would require trump to release his tax returns...
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...which, oh wait...
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I tried to watch this but it was quite difficult to sustain my desire
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I tried to watch this but it was quite difficult to sustain my desire
Whatever you did was time better spent
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Did you guys watch the minor league baseball playoffs too?
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Initial reactions and subsequent coverage sometimes diverge. Cable news people thought Pence won. Many online newspaper headlines so far indicate stories about Pence's denials of provable facts and deflections.
Of course, Trump could easily make Kaine the winner if he winds up having a good old meltdown over 8something stupid.
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debate moderator is 42? and filipina, the mexico of asia? ugh, i want that fap back
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It has been a treat to watch stunted's development into a known bad person/top 5 terrible poster on this blog.
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I honestly feel like Hillary's camp said, "we can't keep putting up with Trump's crap, but Hillary will get treated unfairly if she acts aggressive because she's a woman, so Tim has to do it."
Hillary should have just done it.
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I agree with your broad notions about tax policy favoring the rich and powerful, I disagree this is a very good example of that. There are plenty of smallish commercial chicken farms, fisherman or mining/logging operations that would be put out of business by this. It is to smooth out market variance to allow firms with limited capital to survive downturns and be able to rebound. Is that how Donald Trump used it? Probably, he lost his ass in NJ. That doesn't make him good or bad, but he didn't plenty other stuff that is so obviously bad prima facie that it makes zero sense to attack him on something that isn't bad tax policy and actually protects smaller firms from being driven out by a bad year or two.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sometimes, it's better if a business just fails. We certainly would all be better off right now had Trump lost his ass and never come back.
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kat kid, these are not real losses! they are fictional, or at least some sizable proportion of them is almost certainly fictional. trump is a real estate dude, he owns a lot of real estate and the tax code just happens to hugely advantage real estate. property owners can write down the value of their property as a depreciating asset even though it is actually appreciating in value and generating a growing revenue stream. they can shelter their income, often up to the sale of the property, which may never come.
i have no problem with the offsetting of income with losses, or with extending those losses into future years, but only genuine cash losses, not paper losses. there are a lot of fixes for this, but trump is not proposing any of them.
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leona "only the little people pay taxes" helmsley. real estate dudette.
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....so it does make him smart not to pay taxes on his real estate depreciation after a recession. Obama should have worked on changing the tax codes rather than ruining health care during his first two years.
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Trump isn't proposing "fixes" because he genuinely believes that paying more taxes means he can't invest as much back into his business and therefore can't create as many jobs.
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Yes, the Clinton's are just pissed they didn't hide more money in that shell game known as their foundation(s).
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kat kid, these are not real losses! they are fictional, or at least some sizable proportion of them is almost certainly fictional. trump is a real estate dude, he owns a lot of real estate and the tax code just happens to hugely advantage real estate. property owners can write down the value of their property as a depreciating asset even though it is actually appreciating in value and generating a growing revenue stream. they can shelter their income, often up to the sale of the property, which may never come.
i have no problem with the offsetting of income with losses, or with extending those losses into future years, but only genuine cash losses, not paper losses. there are a lot of fixes for this, but trump is not proposing any of them.
We don't know exactly what the losses were at all. The casinos caused multiple Trump assets to go in to bankruptcy, so it is safe to assume he lost lots of revenue generating income. It is absolutely fair to attack his shady business practices or refusing to release his taxes, but the tax law is bigger than Trump maybe taking advantage of this thing that is actually pretty good.
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It's obvious Hillary is trying to make this tax issue a Trump version of the email scandal. I just don't think it's going to change anyone's mind because everyone seems to agree that what Trump did was legal.
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Property taxes fund the education system, DJT pays more property tax than 99.99% of humans on earth, DJT is one of the worlds staunchest supporters of children and their schools. Hillary doesn't provide anywhere near the support for children that DJT does, whattabitch!
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I think this should be a separate thread, but.... Is taxation a legal or moral obligation? How is this question perceived by progressive liberals and conservative libertarians? The contrast was evident. Paine came across as believing it is a moral obligation.
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It is your moral obligation to pay exactly the amount of taxes that you legally owe.
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I think this should be a separate thread, but.... Is taxation a legal or moral obligation? How is this question perceived by progressive liberals and conservative libertarians? The contrast was evident. Paine came across as believing it is a moral obligation.
Paine didn't come close to making me believe that he believed it's a moral obligation.
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It is your moral obligation to pay exactly the amount of taxes that you legally owe.
*minimum. Unless you think it's immoral to pay more?
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Even if it is a moral obligation to pay certain taxes you could legally write off, it's a pointless argument because no swing voters were leaning Trump because of his morals.
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It is your moral obligation to pay exactly the amount of taxes that you legally owe.
*minimum. Unless you think it's immoral to pay more?
I do.
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so who won
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your team won!
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my team is the entire united states of america. from sea to shining sea tobias.
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that makes us teammates.
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that was my point, but yes :cheers:
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Most people seem to think that Pence won, but in a way that didn't really improve Trump's appeal to swing voters...which is probably exactly what Kaine was hoping to accomplish.
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yeah Kaine just needed to play field position and not turn the ball over. sounds like he game managed it ok
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I thought Pence did a good job of demonstrating how easy this election would have been for the republicans if they would have nominated anybody else.
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I actually saw a comment on my FB feed from a person I assumed to be a liberal and it basically said "Pence for president!," so I found that odd.
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I though Pence did a good job of demonstrating how easy this election would have been for the republicans if they would have nominated anybody else.
Yep. 90% of Hillary's and Kaine's talking points so far have started with "Trump said..."
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[youtube]https://youtu.be/f2JuxM-snGc[/youtube]
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Blaming Trump and his ancestors for the current tax code is incredibly lol, and defintely falls in the "irrational hate" category.
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If you are against unfettered (with no restrictions such as limits in 3rd trimester) abortions and using federal funds to pay for abortions, are you a pig sexist? Kaine insinuated you are.
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https://twitter.com/toddzwillich/status/783728554202791936
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that's essentially saying "this guy I know, well, HIS friend told ME...."
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Many pastors are saying...
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the christian god is the rube goldbergiest of deities.
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Everything happens for a reason sys
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interesting
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/03/it-takes-a-remorseful-tax-cheat-to-catch-a-tax-cheat-and-donald-trump-isnt/
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interesting
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/03/it-takes-a-remorseful-tax-cheat-to-catch-a-tax-cheat-and-donald-trump-isnt/
The True Trump. For himself, and no one else.
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http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-mcmanus-trump-tax-plan-20161005-snap-story.html
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https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/783645247247114240
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0