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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Pete on July 28, 2016, 06:31:51 PM
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I was talking with some "in the know" Big 12 people this week, and the conversation took an interesting turn.
We all wondered how long it would take these lesser programs to be truly "accepted" as peers in the conference. The most popular answer was "never," and many wondered if we should ever extend full membership rights to them.
What do you guys think?
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I was talking with some "in the know" Big 12 people this week, and the conversation took an interesting turn.
We all wondered how long it would take these lesser programs to be truly "accepted" as peers in the conference. The most popular answer was "never," and many wondered if we should ever extend full membership rights to them.
What do you guys think?
It's still hard for me to think WV as a Big 12 school.
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They will always be second class citizens in my opinion.
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With enough time prolly. Unless it's some school like Memphis. Then it's taint licker status forever.
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I don't have any trouble accepting the new members. They have proven to compete well with us, so I don't look down on them for being new.
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It would be easier to accept if they disband the Big 12 and start a new conference with the current and new members...like the Big 12 did with the Big 8 plus SWC pieces.
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no.
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If it was someone cool like UMKC as a basketball only member than sure. But not a commuter school like Colorado State or BYU
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I treat them way nicer. I couldn't care less about ISU/OSU or whatever, they're family. WVU and TCU are like house guests.
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I could see a couple of trips to Ft. Collins and New Orleans going along way to acceptance for me. The rest of the candidates have almost no shot.
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I've gone to every OSU v KSU at both locations for the last 7 years and when i'm down in okieland i always get at least one hayseed say "You know, we all like yall. K-state is alot like Okie-State, same values" and i always nod politely but in my head im like "OMFG if i went to school in this single story redbrick hellhole i'd rough ridin' never tell anyone else about it"
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#1B12
that said, probably not. and that's because i'll look at them as temporary placeholders whose job it is to pretend to be a big 12 team for a few years until the next round of realignment occurs.
we grew up with our member schools like siblings. the new schools would be like step bros and step sisters (no offense to step bros and step sisters, which i have both of in my family).
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#1B12
that said, probably not. and that's because i'll look at them as temporary placeholders whose job it is to pretend to be a big 12 team for a few years until the next round of realignment occurs.
we grew up with our member schools like siblings. the new schools would be like step bros and step sisters (no offense to step bros and step sisters, which i have both of in my family).
That's probably why I have no problem accepting them. I come from a very large family, and between new marriages and divorces, there is always someone new coming along. I just take them as part of the family at that point in time. It doesn't mean I immediately like every one of them, but they are part of the family regardless of my personal opinion of them.
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no, because of how garbagey they make our conference I pretend it's a non con whenever we play them. also iowa state.
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i don't want them and i'll never accept them.
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Have we ever really accepted TCU or WVU? Answer: NO!
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How long do we need to accept said schools? This move is shortsighted at best... Just a matter of time before UT, OU/OSU bolt
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#1B12
that said, probably not. and that's because i'll look at them as temporary placeholders whose job it is to pretend to be a big 12 team for a few years until the next round of realignment occurs.
we grew up with our member schools like siblings. the new schools would be like step bros and step sisters (no offense to step bros and step sisters, which i have both of in my family).
That's probably why I have no problem accepting them. I come from a very large family, and between new marriages and divorces, there is always someone new coming along. I just take them as part of the family at that point in time. It doesn't mean I immediately like every one of them, but they are part of the family regardless of my personal opinion of them.
Yeah but this isn't like that at all. It's just a sports conference so you're allowed to not accept the ever living guts out of whoever you want.
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#1B12
that said, probably not. and that's because i'll look at them as temporary placeholders whose job it is to pretend to be a big 12 team for a few years until the next round of realignment occurs.
we grew up with our member schools like siblings. the new schools would be like step bros and step sisters (no offense to step bros and step sisters, which i have both of in my family).
That's probably why I have no problem accepting them. I come from a very large family, and between new marriages and divorces, there is always someone new coming along. I just take them as part of the family at that point in time. It doesn't mean I immediately like every one of them, but they are part of the family regardless of my personal opinion of them.
Yeah but this isn't like that at all. It's just a sports conference so you're allowed to not accept the ever living guts out of whoever you want.
Fair enough.
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every school. EVERY school (yes even Iowa State) in the big 12 is better in every sense than any one of these clowns.
these new clowns are just that: clowns.
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The old new schools are the freshman 15, the new new schools are a dad bod that has just turned in to diabetes
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These school are like the hoodrats you run through and never tell your friends about.
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I will love them as if they were my own.
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These school are like the hoodrats you run through and never tell your friends about.
Ha!
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The new schools are like your, "friends," through association. You'll be nice and talk to them in public and with other friends, but you'll never invite them over to your house to hangout for the weekend.
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Serious post:
1. Texas
2. OU
3. KU
4. BYU
Based off name brand.
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If it was someone cool like UMKC as a basketball only member than sure. But not a commuter school like Colorado State or BYU
Stupid post. Neither CSU nor BYU are commuter schools. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because you like talking smack.
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:ROFL: #zapped
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I will view these new schools as the people solely responsible for killing the Big 12 from the first day they step foot inside of our conference.
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Can we clump Baylor into the group of new schools we don't accept?
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Byu is welcome. The rest are much worse than isu and that's not even debatable
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If it was someone cool like UMKC as a basketball only member than sure. But not a commuter school like Colorado State or BYU
Stupid post. Neither CSU nor BYU are commuter schools. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because you like talking smack.
posts like this are why CSU doesn't belong in a real conference
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Nope, I don't recognize the new pieces of this shambling horrorshow conference corpse. :'bye cruel world:
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I treat them way nicer. I couldn't care less about ISU/OSU or whatever, they're family. WVU and TCU are like house guests.
Cincy and Memphis would be more like the Help.
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I treat them way nicer. I couldn't care less about ISU/OSU or whatever, they're family. WVU and TCU are like house guests.
Cincy and Memphis would be more like the Help.
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Delete your account
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I've come to accept TCU and WVU, but only because they were in a bowl game a couple of times before they joined the b12. The only reason I saw them was because there weren't any other good bowl games on. So in a way it was pure luck I even saw them in the first place.
As for the new schools I wouldn't even watch a bowl game(:lol:) they were in if they backed into one. So the long answer to your question is no, Pete I will never accept these garbage new schools.
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Yes. They both had previous success. So I'm cool with them. I don't hold them on the same level as some other schools, but I have no problem with their being in the Big 12. I just WVU was closer
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I think BYU and Houston (if they are the choices) would increase the quality of football in this conference. It would make for more fun games.
If Memphis and Cincy are involved, it will increase the quality of basketball on this conference.
Sports are meant to be fun. As long as the quality of the product is entertaining, I will consider the additions positive.
I'm not interested in the name on the jersey or the logo on the helmet.
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I think BYU and Houston (if they are the choices) would increase the quality of football in this conference. It would make for more fun games.
If Memphis and Cincy are involved, it will increase the quality of basketball on this conference.
Sports are meant to be fun. As long as the quality of the product is entertaining, I will consider the additions positive.
I'm not interested in the name on the jersey or the logo on the helmet.
It would weaken both football and basketball. If you add teams, you stop playing everybody. We would be trading games against Texas and OU for games against BYU and Houston.
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Can we not beat BYU or Houston? Those games would interest me as much as games against KU and ISU.
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I think BYU and Houston (if they are the choices) would increase the quality of football in this conference. It would make for more fun games.
If Memphis and Cincy are involved, it will increase the quality of basketball on this conference.
Sports are meant to be fun. As long as the quality of the product is entertaining, I will consider the additions positive.
I'm not interested in the name on the jersey or the logo on the helmet.
It would weaken both football and basketball. If you add teams, you stop playing everybody. We would be trading games against Texas and OU for games against BYU and Houston.
We don't know who we would and wouldn't play. We don't know who the teams would be, let alone the divisions.
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I will say this...
P5 schools that have jumped conferences have seen limited success. Nebraska has totally gone downhill, Missouri is no better than they were and their basketball program has cratered. Colorado is dogshit all over the board. A&M hasn't done anything after Johnny left. Rutgers is a dumpster fire, and Maryland hasn't done anything of note.
Who has seen consistent success transitioning to a new P5 conference? Utah and TCU. In multiple sports.
The sample size is small, but there is something to be said about selling positive momentum vs. a lateral move when you are already established.
Who is to say all of the schools won't be extremely competitive with a cash infusion?
Anyway, I personally see no difference in playing BYU over Texas Tech and Houston over Baylor. In a new future with 14 teams, 50% of your schedule will be consistent while 50% will have diversity. I like that. It keeps things from getting stale.
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BYU and Houston are trash. They are clearly and unequivocally worse than any team currently in the conference in all aspects. Comparing them to A&M, Colorado, and Nebraska is a joke.
A 14 team conference filled with crap-tier programs is terrible and was tried by the WAC, MAC, and Conference USA. You can delude yourself all you want, but you are making a new C-USA.
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It is mind boggling that the Big 12 can't figure out that you should not expand if the teams you are adding are garbage.
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It makes me cringe when we say other schools and teams are trash and garbage.
I never said these schools were CU, MU, and NU. I said those schools took a dive while schools promoted have seen more success after the move.
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It is mind boggling that the Big 12 can't figure out that you should not expand if the teams you are adding are garbage.
The big players are trying to make a cash grab on the way out and teams like us are trying to put enough in the sock drawer for when we try to be the best in the MWC or AAC.
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So actually it's pretty smart given that OU and UT are going to blow it up in 5 years.
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there are only seven other schools that i'll ever accept as big 12 schools. if we cannot meet those schools on the fields and courts of sport, then i prefer we not play sport.
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Most of are very negative. The sky is falling the ground is rising!! It seems exhausting.
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Even with additions, odds are we have entertaining and competitive stuff to watch, and we'd be third in revenue, ahead of the ACC and Pac.
But if someone says they think KSU/BYU in football is garbage or playing Cincy in basketball is trash, then I really don't have a retort for that. It's an emotional anchor that isn't going to budge.
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Need Cotton Bowl revenge.
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Even with additions, odds are we have entertaining and competitive stuff to watch, and we'd be third in revenue, ahead of the ACC and Pac.
But if someone says they think KSU/BYU in football is garbage or playing Cincy in basketball is trash, then I really don't have a retort for that. It's an emotional anchor that isn't going to budge.
If it was a bowl matchup or NCAA draw that is fine.
1) how anyone could think that adding another private, extremely conservative religious school with all kinds of shady athletic dealings in their own history (QB golden boy Steve Young skips the mission, but the o-line is always has a 24 year old man who put on 50 lbs during their "missions") plus lots of allegations of using the religious code to cover up sexual assaults! especially after the Baylor situation has revealed that private religious schools should have no place in this conference if they will refuse to provide any transparency in the face of a horrific scandal. Look at the kind of creeps like Jason King that have consistently (and still!) defend Baylor's actions at every step and then imagine that including an entire sect. It will be awful.
2) I like having a 10 member league. It is unique! I love it for the round robin, I love it because I know all the teams and have grown to really like the members we have, even if the TCU's and WVUs are still weird.
3) I really miss the old Big 8 schools and the further we veer from that formula, the more angry and resentful I get.
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Even with additions, odds are we have entertaining and competitive stuff to watch, and we'd be third in revenue, ahead of the ACC and Pac.
But if someone says they think KSU/BYU in football is garbage or playing Cincy in basketball is trash, then I really don't have a retort for that. It's an emotional anchor that isn't going to budge.
Stop posting, man
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It wouldn't matter who we're adding, pan wouldn't spin it as a good thing and start talking about revenue
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Even with additions, odds are we have entertaining and competitive stuff to watch, and we'd be third in revenue, ahead of the ACC and Pac.
But if someone says they think KSU/BYU in football is garbage or playing Cincy in basketball is trash, then I really don't have a retort for that. It's an emotional anchor that isn't going to budge.
If it was a bowl matchup or NCAA draw that is fine.
1) how anyone could think that adding another private, extremely conservative religious school with all kinds of shady athletic dealings in their own history (QB golden boy Steve Young skips the mission, but the o-line is always has a 24 year old man who put on 50 lbs during their "missions") plus lots of allegations of using the religious code to cover up sexual assaults! especially after the Baylor situation has revealed that private religious schools should have no place in this conference if they will refuse to provide any transparency in the face of a horrific scandal. Look at the kind of creeps like Jason King that have consistently (and still!) defend Baylor's actions at every step and then imagine that including an entire sect. It will be awful.
2) I like having a 10 member league. It is unique! I love it for the round robin, I love it because I know all the teams and have grown to really like the members we have, even if the TCU's and WVUs are still weird.
3) I really miss the old Big 8 schools and the further we veer from that formula, the more angry and resentful I get.
I get #2 and #3 being a matter of preference. I miss the Big 8 schools, too.
As far as #1 is concerned, I'm no fan of BYU the school. I'm just beginning to divorce myself from the institution and the team. I feel that I have to do it if I want to enjoy college athletics at all these days.
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We don't need your acceptance. We're better than you. :Woot:
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We don't need your acceptance. We're better than you. :Woot:
you've probably never been in a conference before, so it's not your fault you don't understand. being good or bad is irrelevant, it's about competing with your friends and neighbors.
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We don't need your acceptance. We're better than you. :Woot:
you've probably never been in a conference before, so it's not your fault you don't understand. being good or bad is irrelevant, it's about competing with your friends and neighbors.
This guy gets it.
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For example, to Syracuse, KSU is trash because there is no compelling interest to play each other in sports. Same could be said for Cincinatti, USF, UCF, etc.. We are boring to them and they are boring to us. Why purposefully add a (or possibly more!) Dec 17th-type bowl game opponent to your regular schedule?
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I can't even get excited about the idea of playing the Arizona schools. I really just want Nebraska and Missouri back.
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We don't need your acceptance. We're better than you. :Woot:
you've probably never been in a conference before, so it's not your fault you don't understand. being good or bad is irrelevant, it's about competing with your friends and neighbors.
So...because you can't compete with us, you don't accept us? :sdeek:
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We don't need your acceptance. We're better than you. :Woot:
you've probably never been in a conference before, so it's not your fault you don't understand. being good or bad is irrelevant, it's about competing with your friends and neighbors.
So...because you can't compete with us, you don't accept us? :sdeek:
The answer is: 'No; it's because we have to compete with you'
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So...because you can't compete with us, you don't accept us? :sdeek:
dallas is not so far. it is possible that someday we might be interested in competing with you if you stick around. i had almost grown to accept colorado before they left. and i no longer consider osu to be a provisional big 12 school.
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I really just want Nebraska and Missouri back.
we all do.
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I really just want Nebraska and Missouri back.
we all do.
Gives me warm fuzzies
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Even with Mizzou in their current state of mumped up crisis, I'd take them back. Heck, with them, I even find it endearing. Like, "get back over here guys! /headlock and noogie but with love." Similar to Cousin Eddie's character in the Vacation series.
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Even with Mizzou in their current state of mumped up crisis, I'd take them back. Heck, with them, I even find it endearing. Like, "get back over here guys! /headlock and noogie but with love." Similar to Cousin Eddie's character in the Vacation series.
Had a marathon on IFC last night. Still cracks me up every time
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This will all be irrelevant in five years when the old Big 12 north schools (sans CU) merge with the Big 10 for a super midwest conference...
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From SBnation's squawk page:
It is conceivable that by 2020 the Big 12 will be left to history. With the four slot college football playoff, I get the feeling that we are headed to four 20 team super conferences made up of four divisions of five teams. It's a way to expand post season participation without expanding the current four team national playoff. Each conference would have four division winners playing in conference semi-finals for the right to play in conference championship games.
If this becomes a reality, it could end up looking something like this:
The Big 20 - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State leave the Big 12. One more team - ideally for the Big 10 Notre Dame, but more realistically Cincinnati - joins the conference to round its number to 20. The Big 10 would not only add some quality football programs, but basketball as well. Kansas basketball fans, can you imagine being in a conference with Izzo's Spartans, Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois? While at the same time the Jyahwks could theoretically play in a much more regionally appropriate division of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Nebraska.
The SEC - The Texas schools of Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU leave the Big 12 to swell the SEC's numbers to 18. The SEC, ever mindful of securing large television markets, could bring in Dallas by adding SMU, and Houston by adding the Cougars. Or just as realistically, Memphis, if they stay competitive. Any two of those three would make market and regional sense for the SEC. And as great as a football conference the SEC is, they do have a basketball problem with Kentucky - just like Kansas in the Big 12 - owning it due to a lack of competition for the crown. Texas, Baylor and TCU are football juggernauts fitting of SEC inclusion. Basketball wise, the addition of Texas, Baylor, Larry Brown's Mustangs and the Memphis Tigers instantly make the conference more likely to land more NCAA tournament seeds.
The ACC - The lone remnant of the Big 12, West Virginia, finally returns to a sense of regional sanity by joining. Already the best basketball conference in the land could then become stronger with the addition of the Mountaineers, and possibly UCONN and Temple - all three with decent enough football programs as to benefit inclusion in that regard. In order to round out their number to 20 teams, the ACC could then add South Florida and Central Florida to their ranks.
The PAC 20 - This one would be trickier to assemble, because the number of western competitive teams is limited, but there are enough to make a 20 team western super conference believable. The obvious addition would be BYU. Along with the Cougars the PAC could scoop up Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State, Nevada, UNLV and San Diego State. Most of which are consistently competitive enough in football, and even more of them are very solid basketball programs.
This is all highly speculative of course. To me though, college football slowly, yet still deliberately, stuttering toward super conferences has left all of college athletics in a state of weird purgatory. If football wants to go for it, then they should get on with it already so that the 21st century of college sports can finally take on a coherent and lasting shape.
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:lol:
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It's amazing to me how much some people really want to watch these shitty 16+ team conferences happen.
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From SBnation's squawk page:
It is conceivable that by 2020 the Big 12 will be left to history. With the four slot college football playoff, I get the feeling that we are headed to four 20 team super conferences made up of four divisions of five teams. It's a way to expand post season participation without expanding the current four team national playoff. Each conference would have four division winners playing in conference semi-finals for the right to play in conference championship games.
If this becomes a reality, it could end up looking something like this:
The Big 20 - Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State leave the Big 12. One more team - ideally for the Big 10 Notre Dame, but more realistically Cincinnati - joins the conference to round its number to 20. The Big 10 would not only add some quality football programs, but basketball as well. Kansas basketball fans, can you imagine being in a conference with Izzo's Spartans, Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois? While at the same time the Jyahwks could theoretically play in a much more regionally appropriate division of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Nebraska.
The SEC - The Texas schools of Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU leave the Big 12 to swell the SEC's numbers to 18. The SEC, ever mindful of securing large television markets, could bring in Dallas by adding SMU, and Houston by adding the Cougars. Or just as realistically, Memphis, if they stay competitive. Any two of those three would make market and regional sense for the SEC. And as great as a football conference the SEC is, they do have a basketball problem with Kentucky - just like Kansas in the Big 12 - owning it due to a lack of competition for the crown. Texas, Baylor and TCU are football juggernauts fitting of SEC inclusion. Basketball wise, the addition of Texas, Baylor, Larry Brown's Mustangs and the Memphis Tigers instantly make the conference more likely to land more NCAA tournament seeds.
The ACC - The lone remnant of the Big 12, West Virginia, finally returns to a sense of regional sanity by joining. Already the best basketball conference in the land could then become stronger with the addition of the Mountaineers, and possibly UCONN and Temple - all three with decent enough football programs as to benefit inclusion in that regard. In order to round out their number to 20 teams, the ACC could then add South Florida and Central Florida to their ranks.
The PAC 20 - This one would be trickier to assemble, because the number of western competitive teams is limited, but there are enough to make a 20 team western super conference believable. The obvious addition would be BYU. Along with the Cougars the PAC could scoop up Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State, Nevada, UNLV and San Diego State. Most of which are consistently competitive enough in football, and even more of them are very solid basketball programs.
This is all highly speculative of course. To me though, college football slowly, yet still deliberately, stuttering toward super conferences has left all of college athletics in a state of weird purgatory. If football wants to go for it, then they should get on with it already so that the 21st century of college sports can finally take on a coherent and lasting shape.
They'll expand the playoffs.
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Would you place money on tearing down almost all conference alignments up until this point, adding mountain west teams to form 20 team conferences, adjusting those conferences into divisions of 5, playing some "conference" opponents twice a decade, and essentially adding a four team playoff to each conference in order to play in the actual four team playoff OR adding 4 more teams to the actual playoffs?
I think these decisions will be heavily influenced by basketball this time and the squawks have it figured out.
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These school are like the hoodrats you run through and never tell your friends about.
kinda late, and you're going to think i'm picking on you again, or whatever, but you should reread SD's advice in that improve as a poster thread.
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These school are like the hoodrats you run through and never tell your friends about.
kinda late, and you're going to think i'm picking on you again, or whatever, but you should reread SD's advice in that improve as a poster thread.
I doubt I read it a first time.
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It's amazing to me how much some people really want to watch these shitty 16+ team conferences happen.
It's not that it's wanted, just seems inevitable. I would love to have the 96' Big 12 back :bawl:
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It's amazing to me how much some people really want to watch these shitty 16+ team conferences happen.
It's not that it's wanted, just seems inevitable. I would love to have the 96' Big 12 back :bawl:
How does it seem inevitable? Have we not seen yet that all of these conferences have their own wants and needs and narratives that change seemingly daily? These super-conferences would require cooperation amongst the conferences and more television money to make them work, both seem like laughable propositions at this point.
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It's amazing to me how much some people really want to watch these shitty 16+ team conferences happen.
It's not that it's wanted, just seems inevitable. I would love to have the 96' Big 12 back :bawl:
How does it seem inevitable? Have we not seen yet that all of these conferences have their own wants and needs and narratives that change seemingly daily? These super-conferences would require cooperation amongst the conferences and more television money to make them work, both seem like laughable propositions at this point.
The popularity of the playoff is what makes it seem inevitable. TV ratings showed that viewership of any non-playoff bowl game has dwindled dramatically the last few years (Notre Dame-Ohio State bowl game last year only had 9.8 million viewers, less than half of the viewers from the same matchup ten years earlier). The current playoff contract will end around 2025 and conference re-alignment will almost surely precede the playoff evolution around that time. I'm not sure if this will end up with super conferences, but there will certainly be changes to the power five conferences. TV business will focus on the playoffs and teams perceived as playoff contenders, the power five conferences will collectively do everything they can to ensure their teams will have a chance at playoff berths, even if that means conference realignment.
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It's amazing to me how much some people really want to watch these shitty 16+ team conferences happen.
It's not that it's wanted, just seems inevitable. I would love to have the 96' Big 12 back :bawl:
How does it seem inevitable? Have we not seen yet that all of these conferences have their own wants and needs and narratives that change seemingly daily? These super-conferences would require cooperation amongst the conferences and more television money to make them work, both seem like laughable propositions at this point.
The popularity of the playoff is what makes it seem inevitable. TV ratings showed that viewership of any non-playoff bowl game has dwindled dramatically the last few years (Notre Dame-Ohio State bowl game last year only had 9.8 million viewers, less than half of the viewers from the same matchup ten years earlier). The current playoff contract will end around 2025 and conference re-alignment will almost surely precede the playoff evolution around that time. I'm not sure if this will end up with super conferences, but there will certainly be changes to the power five conferences. TV business will focus on the playoffs and teams perceived as playoff contenders, the power five conferences will collectively do everything they can to ensure their teams will have a chance at playoff berths, even if that means conference realignment.
I'm not seeing any correlation between the CFP and super conferences at all, I have no idea what one has to do with the other.
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I'm not seeing any correlation between the CFP and super conferences at all, I have no idea what one has to do with the other.
How does it seem inevitable? Have we not seen yet that all of these conferences have their own wants and needs and narratives that change seemingly daily? These super-conferences would require cooperation amongst the conferences and more television money to make them work, both seem like laughable propositions at this point.
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When they win titles yes until then no
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it will be easier since the Big 12 would cease to exist (they'd have to change the name, right??)