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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: sys on February 22, 2016, 09:15:36 PM
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that one was really close, you guys.
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at no point in the 2nd half did I think KSU would win, which is how I feel during all these games except maybe the @OSU game
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KSU wins that game with another year of experience
uh, we did win that game. important to remember that not all wins are labeled a W.
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KSU wins that game with another year of experience
you don't get what you want, you get what you get.
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Okay.
Give this team a break they have come along way and just wait and watch them next year. It's called patience get some!
Bummer...keep playing hard, Cats! So close! EMAW!
Tough loss tonight...keep playing hard.....were close to wining those close ones...
Gotta loook at the whole game it might of been a freshman mistake but he still played a hec of a ball game!
I really hope we don't have a coaching change that is the worst thing you could do. I think a coach deserves 5 yrs and if you go 3 yrs not making the tournament then yes but I believe it's make tournament or get to walking next yr
They can't play the game for them! Losing Stokes hurt. He was starting to lead the team. It's been an unfortunate season!
Easy for me to say they should have driven to the basket and got a shot and maybe a foul, but I had more time to think about it and see the overall picture! (Arm chair quarterbacking) lol, These young men are only going to get better, more aggressive and confident! I love watching them! Go Cats!
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that one was really close, you guys.
Yes indeed ,nothing like watching Larry Bird Wade shake in his shoes thinking about how or why to fire off the game winning shot. STAT SHEET STUFFER
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people need to remember where this team was before stokes went down. you can't win without a point guard, people.
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We were almost 1-8 in games we're down at half. A few things go our way, and maybe we're looking at 3-6 this season!
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#FAMILY
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Just think of the student athlete experience aspect here fellas.
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Just need the EDGE!
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
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“We won everything but the game,” Weber said.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl272%2Flegalrecords%2Fmight%2520still%2520sweep%2520TCU_zpsq4jbtrvp.jpg&hash=88dd5668ba5531edfd63d42d7b69a0237f0e0128)
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That pic is gross
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“We won everything but the game,” Weber said.
Did he seriously say that? Lol
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If the students had contributed, last night would have been a W-type of win. At some point in time our fanbase needs to accept responsibility rather than pass it along to the one guy who can't actually put the ball in the basket.
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Didn't know we played last night. Happened to open my ESPN app and see that we lost. I had a sneaking suspicion that we actually won despite what the final score said and upon reading this board this morning I'm glad to see that I was correct.
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Didn't know we played last night. Happened to open my ESPN app and see that we lost. I had a sneaking suspicion that we actually won despite what the final score said and upon reading this board this morning I'm glad to see that I was correct.
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15mxzVE2O1rrht7yo1_500.jpg)
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Didn't know we played last night. Happened to open my ESPN app and see that we lost. I had a sneaking suspicion that we actually won despite what the final score said and upon reading this board this morning I'm glad to see that I was correct.
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15mxzVE2O1rrht7yo1_500.jpg)
Reminds me of what Frank said back in 2010 in KC -- "We fought the bear."
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Rosie Perez!
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KSU wins that game with another year of experience
uh, we did win that game. important to remember that not all wins are labeled a W.
Best non-winning high effort Holefighting team is the nation. We aren't turdflushable like.Missou.
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(https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15mxzVE2O1rrht7yo1_500.jpg)
which is experience.
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these close losses can be so frustrating, because it's just a bounce here or a whistle there. even just the vagaries of the clock. i mean, you look at a game log and it just jumps out at you that if the game ended at almost any other point other than 40 minutes in, kstate would have lost by a different margin. just incredibly frustrating.
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these close losses can be so frustrating, because it's just a bounce here or a whistle there. even just the vagaries of the clock. i mean, you look at a game log and it just jumps out at you that if the game ended at almost any other point other than 40 minutes in, kstate would have lost by a different margin. just incredibly frustrating.
If someone had told me 3 months ago that we had a chance to go to Hilton and get a win this weekend? Clear progress made.
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So I didn't get to watch the game but it is Weber's fault that we miss a 3 point shot at the buzzer to win? I love how everything is always the fault of the coach. We all know we have a young team, that is dealing with injuries. Relax K-State fans and be patient for the future!
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If we had Kam Stokes this is an NCAA tournament team with a shot to make it to the Sweet 16. With all the freshman this year and they guys coming back next year, he needs 1 more season. If we aren't a legit top 25 team next year, he can go.
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Everybody wants to blame Weber and can all they want but let's face we just don't have the horses to win night in and night out in the toughest conference in college basketball...Edwards and Hurt are above average players at best Westicles flashes star potential at times but disappears in games far to often...DJamer has become our most reliable player by far...Wade, Brown and Stokes are gonna be great players n that's not counting the other three freshman on the bench the two bigs Maurice and Williams plus the other guard Freeman...factor in the incoming recruits are pretty solid this team has a ton of potential and a very high ceiling for the next several years!! At least give this staff another year if not two if there's no improvement then it's time to go another direction ...
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How many of you guys actually thought the team would even be this good? At one point it didn't even look like we could put a full team on the court with everyone transferring. And look at the team now, they have lost a lot of close game with a lot of young players. Next year we should get over that hump and if we don't then maybe you can start putting the blame on coaching.
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Plus lets keep in mind it's not like this team is getting blown out every time they step on the court they've had several games that could've went either way and they lost them...yes some of that goes on the coaching but a lot also goes on inexperience and the inability to make plays down the stretch...not having a go to guy that you can trust in those situations..this team fights and plays hard and it's gonna pay off sooner than later, the results aren't there now but they will be
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Pure gold guys.
Maybe this is more entertaining.
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weber will be back with an experienced full roster next season. something the drama queens took with them last year. i suspect next will be a salty outfit, like his first here, that will challenge for another banner. two seven footers. xsneed and the carolina lefty. stokes. d.j. barry. dean. wes. this team will have a high ceiling.
:excited:
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And I can relate to those comments.
I was making many of those same dumb comments in year 3, 4, and 5 of Wooly when it should have been obvious where the program was going.
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In reference to Taylor:
“We don’t have a guy like that,” Weber said. “We need experience. We need a little more seasoning."
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I also enjoy the talking point of how the 1 win against a top 25 isn't the fluke outlier, the 11 losses are :lol:
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I enjoy the idea that other teams won't try to get better or older or more talented.
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In reference to Taylor:
“We don’t have a guy like that,” Weber said. “We need experience. We need a little more seasoning."
cumin
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oscar Weber has 1 NCAA tournament win in his last 10 years coaching. So he'll probably get over the hump next year.
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oscar Weber has 1 NCAA tournament win in his last 10 years coaching. So he'll probably get over the hump next year.
He's pretty close guys. Just let him get his guys in here and get them some experience.
And cayenne pepper.
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Maybe this is more entertaining.
:emawkid:
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In reference to Taylor:
“We don’t have a guy like that,” Weber said. “We need experience. We need a little more seasoning."
cumin
:lol:
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So the question is, if they get rid of Weber who will they replace him with?? Then how many on the team would transfer due to the coaching change?? Right now there are 3 seniors, 5 juniors, 1 sophomore, and 7 Freshmen. So Currie decides to pull the trigger and let oscar go. They would have to do a search, since most are convinced that no search was done the last time, this could take a few weeks are so. Looking at the roster there are at least 5 that would not transfer, the juniors. The other 8 could decide they want to transfer, of course this is a worst case scenario. But say it happens, the new coach would have to start over and how long would you give him??? What would you expectations be with having to replace 8 players??? Again the big question is who would Currie get to replace Weber???
If you are talking about me then yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Firing Weber now would only dig a deep hole for the KSU BB program. Some think that it's just easy to let him go and move on to the next one. What the fail to see and answer is who would want to come and coach? What happens to the program if say the freshmen decide to transfer because of a coaching change. All some want is Weber gone and who cares about the consequences.
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Yes, we need to wait until we have a team loaded with juniors if we are going to fire Weber. And even then, we need to figure out a way to justify it as fair considering the lack of seniors. There is just no other way to get rid of a coach.
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I love all these debates.
I remember reading (and typing myself) them over and over during the ends of the Asbury and Wooly years. Like a warm blanket of bad K-State basketball memories.
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Your hatred of oscar will not allow you to give this team much credit. You will accept nothing less than we are terrible and you will not allow any reason to get in your way. The North Carolina game was not decided until less than 2 minutes to go. Several of our final scores, this year, are not indicative of just how close the game was. With one or two exceptions, we were in every game until the last minute. When you're behind, you take chances and, if they don't pay off, the lead increases.
It really sticks in your craw when someone brings up Stokes. You won't hear it. You need Weber's head on a platter. Nothing else will do. Never mind that no team could lose a decent point guard and come out unscathed, especially a young team that was already thin because of two 7 foot freshmen being unable to play.
My Lord, we had two walk-ons playing significant minutes against Texas last night.
This is a logical, reasonable, and quite true post, which is beyond dispute. Some posters will point to injuries suffered by other teams, but it doesn't equate with Kansas State because of our huge rebuilding this year. We couldn't afford to have some key player, especially our 3 shooting point guard, to go down.
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Basketball has 86 scholarships, it takes YEARS to build numbers in basketball, turnarounds at least 3 to 5 years fellas!!
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I enjoy the idea that other teams won't try to get better or older or more talented.
Yeah, this is one of the best excuses. The assumption that a) all our guys will be back, b) all our guys will get better and c) no other team will is just silly.
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I love all these debates.
I remember reading (and typing myself) them over and over during the ends of the Asbury and Wooly years. Like a warm blanket of bad K-State basketball memories.
I just realized this was not a new poster
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I love all these debates.
I remember reading (and typing myself) them over and over during the ends of the Asbury and Wooly years. Like a warm blanket of bad K-State basketball memories.
I just realized this was not a new poster
:D
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Crucify me if you want, but the job that Coach Weber has done with this team is nothing short of a miracle. We have been in all games we have played w the exception of the Honks in Lawrence and at A&M. Every one of the other losses could have went either way. So, with that said, let's say half of those games go our way, we would be sitting at 21-7, 9-6 in conference and in the top 25. The conversation here would completely opposite. Is there concerns?? No doubt, would having Kam throughout changed a few games? Yes, but no one can control injuries. With all the close losses, most teams would just fold and start looking to transfer, but not this team and that is on the coaches for being able to get them ready each and everyday. I think Coach Weber is a great fit and will bring home a couple championships in the next few years. Rant over, lol!!
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Honestly, it may be a good thing if something escaped the NBAF. :dunno:
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This is a great thought process. I do not think anyone will want to transfer. Barry is our starting point guard right now, but suited more for the 2 I believe, which will happen once Kam comes back. Don't hate on this, but if Ervin transferred, I really don't think it would be a big deal and actually might be a blessing in disguise. I love the kids heart, but my goodness, stop turning the ball over and can you please make a layup? With Sneed coming in and xWhomper being ready to go next season, I don't think he would be missed. With that said, all we lose is Hurt, Edwards and Vulture. I see us as a sweet 16 team next year at worst as well as being in the preseason top 25!!!
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sweet 16 is a stretch goal, I would probably establish that 2 years from now but of course I am always willing to revisit as the season progresses and I certainly will be glad to be wrong on that result!!!
Ervin would be defined in my view as a less significant transfer, I don't want him to transfer but it would not be something we would really notice very much and not something that would cause any red flags. Players likes Kam, Brown or Wade transferring would be the things that would cause me deep concern.
Brown is a 2 guard for certain, his development is on the defensive side from my view.
I don't see anyway this team will be a preseason top 25 team, preseason rankings are always based on name schools and past year records. The voters will look at the teams result and not even make the voting radar. I actually would project that the pre season rankings for big 12, KSU will likely be projected at best 6th or 7th. Not really important anyway, because if this team does get 10 wins in league play and a tourney bid then where they started on November 1 is insignificant from my view point.
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I didn't really like him at first either I thought the guy was trash. But now how see how hard they guys play and how bad they want it and the recruiting is good as well so overall I think coach Weber is a great coach. He's brought back the fire in the cats and I hope he stays for a few more years. EMAWNATION
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fygjkb.gif&hash=b8036c3cd4d4ed081f7448a4f4b787d8d756f5e1)
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he's done a nice job with what he's had to work with following the drama queens dismal. i like oscar and expect a run for the conference title next year.
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I totally agree. We are much better this season than I ever thought we'd be. I was at the Mizzou game and the NC game early in the season and was amazed at our talent level, considering we lost so much talent from last year. I think Coach has done well. The one common theme in every one of our close losses this year has been our inability to close out a game, for one true leader to emerge and carry the the team on those final few possessions. We've been so close so many times. last night was a prime example of no one truly stepping up and taking over on that last possession when we needed it most. I like our players and our talent, and our heart is huge!!
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The secret is to bring in kids that have no other options. Boom! Transfer security.
I didn't really like him at first either I thought the guy was trash. But now how see how hard they guys play and how bad they want it and the recruiting is good as well so overall I think coach Weber is a great coach. He's brought back the fire in the cats and I hope he stays for a few more years. EMAWNATION
This guy doesn't realize who is a walk on and who isnt.
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I do agree with the point about it being unfair that rankings are mostly based on results.
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i wish i could see this team play the season over again, except this time with kam. i think his loss hurt us more than we will ever be able to comprehend.
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i wish i could see this team play the season over again, except this time with kam. i think his loss hurt us more than we will ever be able to comprehend.
With Kam: 13-8
Without Kam: 2-5
Pretty easy to see what's going on here.
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Is Kam a reno nickname for Marcus Foster?
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i just projected out a "with kam" season, and i came up with something ridiculous like 19-12. that's just a projection, obviously, but it's probably more important than any other single number you're going see regarding weber's tenure at kstate.
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learnin is what a great troll from another team wanting us to retain Weber for another 20 years would look like
During this year, Weber has taken responsibility for losses and has, seldomly, laid it on the team.
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Crucify me if you want, but the job that Coach Weber has done with this team is nothing short of a miracle. We have been in all games we have played w the exception of the Honks in Lawrence and at A&M. Every one of the other losses could have went either way. So, with that said, let's say half of those games go our way, we would be sitting at 21-7, 9-6 in conference and in the top 25. The conversation here would completely opposite. Is there concerns?? No doubt, would having Kam throughout changed a few games? Yes, but no one can control injuries. With all the close losses, most teams would just fold and start looking to transfer, but not this team and that is on the coaches for being able to get them ready each and everyday. I think Coach Weber is a great fit and will bring home a couple championships in the next few years. Rant over, lol!!
parodic _Fan is best _Fan. mark it down: feb 23, 2016 - the day oscar smashed the fulcrum
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I never thought I'd see the day.
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Weber is a flawed coach, but he is also a special coach. Does he fit at KSU? He will almost certainly be coaching KSU next season, and that will likely determine his career. He will also almost certainly pass 400 DI wins and 300 wins as a high major coach next season, which is no small accomplishment in 19 years.
KSU's last Final Four banner is from 1964. For all his flaws, Weber is one of the few coaches you can get who has the proven ability to take KSU to a Final Four if he gets the right players. Before anyone bashes this staff's recruiting, remember that Weber and Lowery took SIU to two NCAA Sweet Sixteens not so long ago with players they (both) recruited. If they can do that at SIU, they can recruit a Final Four squad to KSU.
I would not be at all shocked to see KSU in the Final Four during Wade's senior season. I am not saying it will happen, but yes there are some pretty good pieces already in place, and more interesting pieces already in the pipeline. Sneed looks like a very nice get, and I think xWhomper may turn out to be a pleasant surprise when he gets healthy. Next season will answer some major questions for both Weber and KSU, imo.
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I love you all, but this might be my favorite ever post.
these close losses can be so frustrating, because it's just a bounce here or a whistle there. even just the vagaries of the clock. i mean, you look at a game log and it just jumps out at you that if the game ended at almost any other point other than 40 minutes in, kstate would have lost by a different margin. just incredibly frustrating.
Except for the one about the bus. That's my favorite, too.
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Exactly!!!!!!! The majority of those posting on this subject are so butt hurt that Kstate isn't in the Big 12 standings where they think they should be. You guys need to all get together somewhere and have a pity party and cry to each other so we don't have to listen to you on here. There are some of us true fans that believe in this team and their coaches. These kids are going to be great and you guys don't deserve them. You can't stand behind them as they struggle to just come up short against some of the top teams in the country. We have at least nine teams in this conference, if they were in other conferences they would dominate. You guys are to blind to see this! We have kids that pour their hearts out in, week out win or loose to try and win games for you you faithful fans! I honestly think that Weber is the guy that these kids want to lead them!
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Exactly!!!!!!! The majority of those posting on this subject are so butt hurt that Kstate isn't in the Big 12 standings where they think they should be. You guys need to all get together somewhere and have a pity party and cry to each other so we don't have to listen to you on here. There are some of us true fans that believe in this team and their coaches. These kids are going to be great and you guys don't deserve them. You can't stand behind them as they struggle to just come up short against some of the top teams in the country. We have at least nine teams in this conference, if they were in other conferences they would dominate. You guys are to blind to see this! We have kids that pour their hearts out in, week out win or loose to try and win games for you you faithful fans! I honestly think that Weber is the guy that these kids want to lead them!
Some compelling arguments.
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They would dominate!
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They would dominate!
at least 9 teams in our league! Maybe 10!
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
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I mean, if people wanted to make a case, instead of emotionally driven drivel, they could try to find a tangible example.
Like look at Tubby and Tech. Granted, he didn't destroy his own program, but he played mainly an underrated (mostly 3 star) freshmen class and finished last in the league last year, and they didn't even really play many people close. This year he's on the verge of an NCAA tournament.
Do I think that oscar will do the same? No. But at least its a somewhat persuasive argument that's not based on some blind fan faith.
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I think the team will be better next year because it's hard to imagine them being worse. They should be a bubble team.
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I think the team will be better next year because it's hard to imagine them being worse. They should be a bubble team.
Its pretty easy to imagine it. I mean, we had a bunch of close losses and we have witnessed TCU for the past 4 yrs. It can get worse. Probability wise, I would think it much more likely that we are slightly better. Still not good enough, imo.
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I think 9 teams might be able to dominate the Sun Belt! Maybe only 7...
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I think the team will be better next year because it's hard to imagine them being worse. They should be a bubble team.
I feel like I've heard this before
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Oh, I thought this was the thread where we were making up excuses for the team and being obnoxiously optimistic. Sorry, guys.
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I guess I don't see any room for some kind of 6 game turnaround next year. Has anyone in the last 4 years just grown leaps and bounds under oscar?
We could be .500 in the league next year and the big 12 could suck ass.
Is that improvement?
Winning 1 tourney game should be a minimum.
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they could be better, they could be worse. probably not too far in either direction.
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How many close wins do we have this year? Close would be what? Maybe within 5 pts in the last 2 minutes? What if we had lost those games, too!
Gonna win 'em all! (using Tapatalk)
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4 close wins, 5 close losses.
5 point mov or ot. looking at scores in the final minutes is too much work.
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4 close wins, 5 close losses.
5 point mov or ot. looking at scores in the final minutes is too much work.
Posted in the Big 12 stats, but our ave. difference in ppp for conference play is -0.034, which does indicate a high number of close games. We've distanced ourselves from 9th and 10th (OSU and TCU) and are closer to the 5th-7th group. BU is at +0.019, UT is at +0.017, and Tech at -0.014, especially for being 4/5 games worse. In the end, winning still matters though, and 4-11 is bad conference record regardless.
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Final scores can be deceiving. At first glance our 10 point loss to UNC was not "close", but we led that game with 3 min left.
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4 close wins, 5 close losses.
Posted in the Big 12 stats, but our ave. difference in ppp for conference play is -0.034, which does indicate a high number of close games.
the close wins were all noncon.
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the close wins were all noncon.
Yes.
I was just saying that at 4-11 in the league, you would probably expect our ave ppp differential to be closer to OSU/TCU than BU/UT/Tech.
I mean, your thread title isn't wrong.
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it's an odd split that they won basically all the close noncon and lost basically all the close cons. the con games are more important to fans (as well as more recent) so people remember them more - contributing to the idea that the team has been exceptionally unlucky.
but it's also true that they've lost more than would be predicted by their off eff/def effs. - kenpom has them as the 322nd least lucky team. of course it's also true that their top 15 defense is greatly influenced by 3%, a stat that has little predictive power. it's easy to fuel a lot of different narratives using stats, if one desires.
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But it does prove how good of a job Weber did his first year, considering the talent ISU has is better than what we had in 2012-2013. Heck, the talent Shaka inherited is better than what we had, and he is supposed to be the second coming. Weber took a 5th Place group with no one on the roster that will sniff the NBA and grabbed a share. Pretty impressive, whether people will admit it or not.
Why are we getting worse if oscar is so good at coaching up a crappy roster :dunno:
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it's an odd split that they won basically all the close noncon and lost basically all the close cons. the con games are more important to fans (as well as more recent) so people remember them more - contributing to the idea that the team has been exceptionally unlucky.
but it's also true that they've lost more than would be predicted by their off eff/def effs. - kenpom has them as the 322nd least lucky team. of course it's also true that their top 15 defense is greatly influenced by 3%, a stat that has little predictive power. it's easy to fuel a lot of different narratives using stats, if one desires.
TO%/Steal% is pretty good too.
We've also played a really strong offensive SOS, and a better offensive SOS than defensive SOS.
Also, oscar teams have a knack for having good 3PT% defenses, which is weird.
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TO%/Steal% is pretty good too.
yes, but to rate and 3% are really the only two categories they are good at. it's a very odd recipe for an elite defense.
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I guess I don't see any room for some kind of 6 game turnaround next year. Has anyone in the last 4 years just grown leaps and bounds under oscar?
We could be .500 in the league next year and the big 12 could suck ass.
Is that improvement?
Winning 1 tourney game should be a minimum.
It's going to be good enough for a contract extension.
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I guess I don't see any room for some kind of 6 game turnaround next year. Has anyone in the last 4 years just grown leaps and bounds under oscar?
We could be .500 in the league next year and the big 12 could suck ass.
Is that improvement?
Winning 1 tourney game should be a minimum.
My best guess at a road map for big improvement next year is based on the time oscar pulled his ass out of the fire at Illinois by going 24-10 (11-7) in 08-09 after going 16-19 (5-13) the year before. A large part was due to two sophomore post players (Mike Davis and Mike Tisdale) combining for 20+ pts & 10+ rebs per game after being non factors as freshman. With DJammer and Claws back we don't need that much production by our mysbigs but doubling Big Meat's 6&4 conference averages seems like a good minimum.
Also, as _BBB has mentioned oscar's win/3pt% correlation, the 3pt% improved from .319 to .350 in 08-09. A big part of that was the Brucing of Rodney Alexander, who shot .193 on 57 attempts and Chet going from .291 to .382. So next years' cats obviously lose Hopper's .290 on 100 or so attempts and hopefully Westicles can get his .231 to somewhere near the .413 he shot as a freshman. Claws shooting in the mid 30s is likely required to get to mid pack in the conference as well.
The sad fact is all the above can happen in what will almost assuredly be a weaker Big 12 and the big payoff will be a 5/12 loss to a mid or low major :goodbyecruelworld:
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Doubt an extension, you can't fire a guy winning a tourney game but sweet 16 is after that
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Doubt an extension, you can't fire a guy winning a tourney game but sweet 16 is after that
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oscar's contract goes through 2019. If he has any modicum of success next year, especially an NCAA trip (not even a win), Currie will add another year (probably at least 2) to his contract.
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No way
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You know it will happen.
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Doubt an extension, you can't fire a guy winning a tourney game but sweet 16 is after that
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oscar's contract goes through 2019. If he has any modicum of success next year, especially an NCAA trip (not even a win), Currie will add another year (probably at least 2) to his contract.
Why? It's not like that loser is going to go get another job.
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Doubt an extension, you can't fire a guy winning a tourney game but sweet 16 is after that
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oscar's contract goes through 2019. If he has any modicum of success next year, especially an NCAA trip (not even a win), Currie will add another year (probably at least 2) to his contract.
If that happens Currie should be fired.
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Hell he's likely to get an extension for making the NIT.
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If you are going to keep a coach, you don't let his contract get down to 2 years remaining and probably shouldn't let it get to 3 very often. I mean if Currie decides oscar should be here, an extension should come after next season. Or you move on.