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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: renocat on August 10, 2015, 09:09:58 AM
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California has agreed to pay for a $25,000 operation to change a guy to a gal. He is in prison for life without parole for murder. Rodneyshiloh is suffering mental anguish as a man and as such prison is inhumane. Sheesh!! Medicaid is next.
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that seems unbelievably cheap for an operation like that. I'd be more concerned about the quality of the surgeon at those cut rates.
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I don't care either way
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trust california to give a murderer a rapist's sentence, amirite, renocat? imrite.
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that seems unbelievably cheap for an operation like that. I'd be more concerned about the quality of the surgeon at those cut rates.
Could probably get even better rates if they drove him down to Tijuana.
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
If the state chooses to perform the surgery, doesn't it then have to pay for ongoing hormone treatments? Is there any data to support a lower risk of suicide with post-op trans people compared to pre-op?
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We should leave the decision up to the murder victim's family.
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We should leave the decision up to the murder victim's family.
I don't think they'd be able to view the situation rationally.
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
If the state chooses to perform the surgery, doesn't it then have to pay for ongoing hormone treatments? Is there any data to support a lower risk of suicide with post-op trans people compared to pre-op?
I don't know the answers to either of those questions, but I'm guessing there would be some level of ongoing hormone treatments either way. Just another side to consider.
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all prisoners should receive a medical fund when they enter prison that they can use for whatever medical care they need, including elective surgeries. they can receive 10% of the unused total on release. if they die in prison, they can bequeath it to an heir.
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all prisoners should receive a medical fund when they enter prison that they can use for whatever medical care they need, including elective surgeries. they can receive 10% of the unused total on release. if they die in prison, they can bequeath it to an heir.
what if the state is responsible for health problems that go beyond their fund?
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if they die, they die (but other inmates could donate to their care from their funds)
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
Well I would say the state has some sort of responsibility to keep the prisoner safe.....so if they are injured while in the prison (and not their own fault) then the state should pay for the recovery costs. But then do you have to have a trial to see if it was their fault or not? IDK. But I don't see the gender reassignment surgery as the state's responsibility because they didn't cause the prisoner to be the wrong gender.
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all prisoners should receive a medical fund when they enter prison that they can use for whatever medical care they need, including elective surgeries. they can receive 10% of the unused total on release. if they die in prison, they can bequeath it to an heir.
So we are paying people (in medical care) for getting a prison sentence? Is the amount based on how long you are serving? So if you commit murder you get a bigger medical fund than someone on drug charges (presumably).
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
Well I would say the state has some sort of responsibility to keep the prisoner safe.....so if they are injured while in the prison (and not their own fault) then the state should pay for the recovery costs. But then do you have to have a trial to see if it was their fault or not? IDK. But I don't see the gender reassignment surgery as the state's responsibility because they didn't cause the prisoner to be the wrong gender.
what if a prisoner trips and falls through no one's fault and breaks their arm? A prisoner should just have to suck suck it up?
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I am trying to equate this to a different required surgery, but I can't. Any help?
Gonna win 'em all!
Yeah, my first thought is well if you are in prison then you shouldn't be able to get whatever you want, because that is the whole point of prison is that your life is restricted.....but I guess I need a "similar to" type of situation to compare this to.
My first thought is (perhaps insensitively) "how much would it cost to do nothing?"
I mean I suppose possible that this person could be a victim of more abuse, require certain medication and therapy, try to take his/her own life, etc., which could end up costing the state more than $25k.
You also have to ask, where do you draw the line? Let's say a prisoner breaks a finger and it costs $2k for x-rays and treatment. Should the state pay for it? why or why not? They don't necessarily NEED to use that finger, why should the state pay to fix it? Should the state pay for any prisoner care other than life-threatening ailments?
Well I would say the state has some sort of responsibility to keep the prisoner safe.....so if they are injured while in the prison (and not their own fault) then the state should pay for the recovery costs. But then do you have to have a trial to see if it was their fault or not? IDK. But I don't see the gender reassignment surgery as the state's responsibility because they didn't cause the prisoner to be the wrong gender.
what if a prisoner trips and falls through no one's fault and breaks their arm? A prisoner should just have to suck suck it up?
Maybe they could ask their family to pay for it?
But also if it is no one's fault then that is not the prisoner's fault so they get care....BUT if the prisoner starts a fight and in the process gets shanked then he has to live (or not) with it.
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They should have a prison work program for people interested in medicine and those other inmates should set the broken bone free of charge.
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Sounds ridiculous.
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LOL at prisoners getting elective surgery paid for with tax money.
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They should have a prison work program for people interested in medicine and those other inmates should set the broken bone free of charge.
If there are doctors in the prison they should just let them do the medical work...even if their license has been revoked due to whatever got them into prison....and maybe there should be a prison exchange program where they move the doctor prisoners to wherever they are needed....I wonder if that would be more expensive than providing traditional care.
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I mean it's just a broken bone. It's kind of hard to mess that one up. Just have some prisoners line the bones up so there isn't a big lump sticking out and wrap a cast around it.
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Bones ok. Reverse boner,no.
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all prisoners should receive a medical fund when they enter prison that they can use for whatever medical care they need, including elective surgeries. they can receive 10% of the unused total on release. if they die in prison, they can bequeath it to an heir.
So we are paying people (in medical care) for getting a prison sentence? Is the amount based on how long you are serving? So if you commit murder you get a bigger medical fund than someone on drug charges (presumably).
the state is depriving them of liberty, preventing them from earning the means to provide their own care, so it has the responsibility to fund that care. yes, it is based on length of sentence. the state has to deposit all of the funds at the time the prisoner is deprived of liberty. unused funds would earn inflation + 50 basis points annually.
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Going to prison sounds like a solid investment opportunity for losers.
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Yes, great opportunity. They got it made!
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
:lol:
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
:lol:
Go ahead and explain why that's funny
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
:lol:
Go ahead and explain why that's funny
Well, I know you're trolling, but it's laughable that you think a murderer should get the same care as my 85 year old grandmother who has dementia.
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I'm not trolling at all.
Explain why that's laughable
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I'm not trolling at all.
Explain why that's laughable
I just did. You're adorable.
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I'm not trolling at all.
Explain why that's laughable
I just did. You're adorable.
You didn't explain anything
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I don't have remorse for murderers. If you think they deserve the same rights as citizens, you're delusional. I don't care about ppl who want sex changes, that's their thing and should be able to do what they want, but to take tax payers $ to do so and you're being punished for an awful crime you committed, there's no way in hell that they should supply him with his request.
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Wacky hates the eff out of the Constitution
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I don't have remorse for murderers. If you think they deserve the same rights as citizens, you're delusional. I don't care about ppl who want sex changes, that's their thing and should be able to do what they want, but to take tax payers $ to do so and you're being punished for an awful crime you committed, there's no way in hell that they should supply him with his request.
do you apply this to all crimes, or is there a certain crime level you magically think people should be deprived of healthcare?
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you don't have to have "remorse" for murderers to treat them like human beings while they are alive.
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I think wacky means "empathy" instead of "remorse".
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There are other rights that convicted felons are deprived of. :dunno:
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I think wacky means "empathy" instead of "remorse".
Yes.
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This is from the LA Times as cited on the msn news website. The article said also a federal judge order a change operation for a federal prison. My view is this is elective. Humane treatment does not mean coddling a prisoner with hurt feelings about their identification. Where does this escalate to?
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Who cares? Let them have the surgery.
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Pay the doctor in a tax break.
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Problem solved.
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Pay the doctor in a tax break.
Not certain you know how taxes work?
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
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Pay the doctor in a tax break.
Not certain you know how taxes work?
Maybe not. However tax breaks for having a kid, owning a home, etc work. Make one for a doctor performing an operation on a prisoner so they have to pay 15, 20, whatever thousand less in taxes.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
Yes most, likely all, insurance companies offer coverage for gender reassignment surgery and subsequent hormone treatments in addition to pre-surgical and post-op psychiatric services.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
Yes most, likely all, insurance companies offer coverage for gender reassignment surgery and subsequent hormone treatments in addition to pre-surgical and post-op psychiatric services.
So maybe I have to rethink my position on that.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
Yes most, likely all, insurance companies offer coverage for gender reassignment surgery and subsequent hormone treatments in addition to pre-surgical and post-op psychiatric services.
So maybe I have to rethink my position on that.
Why? What does insurance coverage have to do with anything? Prisoners aren't paying insurance premiums, that's why we're discussing taxpayers covering this surgery. There are a lot of things that insurance will cover that I'm not sure people would be comfortable with prisoners getting.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
quick google search:
Requirements for genital reconstructive surgery (i.e., vaginectomy, urethroplasty, metoidioplasty, phalloplasty, scrotoplasty, and placement of a testicular prosthesis and erectile prosthesis in female to male; penectomy, vaginoplasty, labiaplasty, and clitoroplasty in male to female)
Two referral letters from qualified mental health professionals, one in a purely evaluative role (see appendix); and
Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria (see Appendix); and
Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment; and
Age of majority (age 18 years and older); and
If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled; and
Twelve months of continuous hormone therapy as appropriate to the member’s gender goals (unless the member has a medical contraindication or is otherwise unable or unwilling to take hormones); and
Twelve months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity (real life experience).
Plenty more interesting information:
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html
There's also this:
Regulators in nine states and the District of Columbia have also introduced laws banning insurance discrimination against treatments for gender reassignment. The other eight are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont and Washington, according to the Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund. “But some insurers still deny claims and flout the law until someone pushes back against them,” says Michael Silverman, executive director at Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund. Last December, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo told insurers in a letter: “An issuer may not deny medically necessary treatment otherwise covered by a health insurance policy solely on the basis that the treatment is for gender dysphoria.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-states-and-insurers-make-gender-reassignment-surgery-more-accessible-2015-06-02
^really surprised info in this article wasn't a big conservative anti-obamacare talking point
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
Yes most, likely all, insurance companies offer coverage for gender reassignment surgery and subsequent hormone treatments in addition to pre-surgical and post-op psychiatric services.
So maybe I have to rethink my position on that.
Why? What does insurance coverage have to do with anything? Prisoners aren't paying insurance premiums, that's why we're discussing taxpayers covering this surgery. There are a lot of things that insurance will cover that I'm not sure people would be comfortable with prisoners getting.
I am trying to be thoughtful about access to appropriate health care for all citizens, including inmates. I believe everyone is entitled to basic health care, so that is where the insurance question came into play for me. The real question for me is the mental health angle. If this is a question of mental health then I believe access to this kind of treatment might be necessary. I still hvae not changed my mind, just want to be open to all facets of the discussion.
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Inmates should receive the same care all us citizens should receive.
I agree 100%
That being said the state shouldn't be paying for that surgery
I agree with both of those statements. I don't know, and am open to hearing, which if any insurance companies cover this type of surgery.
quick google search:
Requirements for genital reconstructive surgery (i.e., vaginectomy, urethroplasty, metoidioplasty, phalloplasty, scrotoplasty, and placement of a testicular prosthesis and erectile prosthesis in female to male; penectomy, vaginoplasty, labiaplasty, and clitoroplasty in male to female)
Two referral letters from qualified mental health professionals, one in a purely evaluative role (see appendix); and
Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria (see Appendix); and
Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment; and
Age of majority (age 18 years and older); and
If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled; and
Twelve months of continuous hormone therapy as appropriate to the member’s gender goals (unless the member has a medical contraindication or is otherwise unable or unwilling to take hormones); and
Twelve months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity (real life experience).
Plenty more interesting information:
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html
There's also this:
Regulators in nine states and the District of Columbia have also introduced laws banning insurance discrimination against treatments for gender reassignment. The other eight are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont and Washington, according to the Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund. “But some insurers still deny claims and flout the law until someone pushes back against them,” says Michael Silverman, executive director at Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund. Last December, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo told insurers in a letter: “An issuer may not deny medically necessary treatment otherwise covered by a health insurance policy solely on the basis that the treatment is for gender dysphoria.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-states-and-insurers-make-gender-reassignment-surgery-more-accessible-2015-06-02
^really surprised info in this article wasn't a big conservative anti-obamacare talking point
Remember, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it".
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Is realignment really the correct term? Because, to me, that just sounds like it is a bit crooked and needs to be straightened out (realigned).
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Is realignment really the correct term?
No
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Is realignment really the correct term? Because, to me, that just sounds like it is a bit crooked and needs to be straightened out (realigned).
It's reassignment.
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Is realignment really the correct term? Because, to me, that just sounds like it is a bit crooked and needs to be straightened out (realigned).
Ow
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Actually the term realignment has been used in some articles I found online.
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This is like someone who wants deviated septum surgery
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-votes-down-proposal-to-ban-dod-payments-for-gender-transition-surgeries/
If someone chooses this life path, I come to the conclusion let them go on their journey. But by danglies, I don't have to help pay for it. Free obamaphone maybe, but ,,xxxm.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-votes-down-proposal-to-ban-dod-payments-for-gender-transition-surgeries/
If someone chooses this life path, I come to the conclusion let them go on their journey. But by danglies, I don't have to help pay for it. Free obamaphone maybe, but ,,xxxm.
Now that's mumped up.
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Pretty sure the 8th amendment prohibits the prison system from castrating inmates. I'd be open to a constitutional exception, however, for publicly funded castrations of child molestors
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Gov should only pay to turn outies into innies to keep that birthrate up
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I don't know if it works that way.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-votes-down-proposal-to-ban-dod-payments-for-gender-transition-surgeries/
If someone chooses this life path, I come to the conclusion let them go on their journey. But by danglies, I don't have to help pay for it. Free obamaphone maybe, but ,,xxxm.
Now that's mumped up.
Yeah. These republicans can't get anything passed.
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I am happy Trump is banning transgentials from military service and paying for realignment surgery. Man/woman are transwers HACK OFF, literally in some cases.
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Question: Do private insurance policies pay for gender confirmation surgery (or whatever the PC term is nowadays)?
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Question: Do private insurance policies pay for gender confirmation surgery (or whatever the PC term is nowadays)?
Here's a pretty good guide from Aetna:
http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html
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So why should we expect those serving in the military to get fewer medical services / less insurance coverage than the average citizen?
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Answer to OP, no. It's no different than a face lift.
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the only answer to all problems is total all gender integration of the military like starship troopers
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the only answer to all problems is total all gender integration of the military like starship troopers
:thumbsup:
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hell no keep the homos and trannies out of the military. Move the minorities to the front line to protect whitey
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:facepalm:
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That's great if you want to run a sock, but stop running it as if all Republicans are racist bigots. JFC.
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Makes you think
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Makes you think
It really does....not sure if everyone here is really dumb enough to think I'm a sock. Used to get accused of this at gopowercat too like I'd pay for two subscriptions.....also can't think of a single racist thing I've said.....based on the definition of racist benig someone who believes a particular race is superior. I don't think white people are superior I just know we commit less crimes, work harder and don't clog up the prisons. Stating facts does not make one a racist. Also I think all races deserve the same rights and opportunities....it's just not my fault colored folks don't want to work hard to capitalize on the opportunities that are out there.
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Makes you think
It really does....not sure if everyone here is really dumb enough to think I'm a sock. Used to get accused of this at gopowercat too like I'd pay for two subscriptions.....also can't think of a single racist thing I've said.....based on the definition of racist benig someone who believes a particular race is superior. I don't think white people are superior I just know we commit less crimes, work harder and don't clog up the prisons. Stating facts does not make one a racist. Also I think all races deserve the same rights and opportunities....it's just not my fault colored folks don't want to work hard to capitalize on the opportunities that are out there.
can't tell if serious, but you remember you posted under your alter ego last week by mistake right? ;)