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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: yosh on April 22, 2010, 07:16:51 PM
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...now that the roster is final:
PG: Pullen 32 mins, Myles 5 mins, Spradling 3
SG: McGruder 15, Russell 15, Irving 5, Spradling 5 mins,
SF: Sutton 25 mins, Samuels 10 mins, Southwell 5 mins
PF: Kelly 25 mins, Samuels 15 mins
C/PF2: Judge 20 mins, Asprilla 15 mins, JHR 5 mins
:dunno:
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more irving, less spradling
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need me some more 'tay
<grrr, beat me by 15sec>
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our guards are HORRIBLE. (minus jpullz) The fact that fans are clamoring for more minutes from Martavious "7-28 in conference play" Irving just shows how brutal it is.
Front court will probably be really good, though.
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I think Russell should get more minutes than Irving, but I don't think he will because of Irving's defense.
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MARTAVIOUS'S EFG% IN THE BIG 12 WAS 28.5
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I miss Fred Brown. Running him off was freaking stupid, Frank. Terrible.
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Russell is going to bring it strong nest year. You heard it here fist. Go ahead and save this post.
Russell will get more minutes than Rodney at the 2 and Rodney will get more minutes than Sutton.
PG: Pullen 32 mins, Tay 5 mins, Myles 3
SG: Russell 20 mins, McGruder 15 mins, Tay 5 mins,
SF: Sutton 15 mins, Samuels 15 mins, McGruder 10 mins
PF: Kelly 25 mins, Samuels 10 mins, Judge 5 mins
C/PF2: Judge 20 mins, Asprilla 15 mins, JHR 5 mins
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I thought I was generous with Irvings minutes. :dunno:
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I miss Fred Brown. Running him off was freaking stupid, Frank. Terrible.
pfft. didn't fit.
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Russell is going to bring it strong nest year. You heard it here fist. Go ahead and save this post.
Russell will get more minutes than Rodney at the 2 and Rodney will get more minutes than Sutton.
PG: Pullen 32 mins, Tay 5 mins, Myles 3
SG: Russell 20 mins, McGruder 15 mins, Tay 5 mins,
SF: Sutton 15 mins, Samuels 15 mins, McGruder 10 mins
PF: Kelly 25 mins, Samuels 10 mins, Judge 5 mins
C/PF2: Judge 20 mins, Asprilla 15 mins, JHR 5 mins
:lol:
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Russell is going to bring it strong nest year. You heard it here fist. Go ahead and save this post.
Russell will get more minutes than Rodney at the 2 and Rodney will get more minutes than Sutton.
PG: Pullen 32 mins, Tay 5 mins, Myles 3
SG: Russell 20 mins, McGruder 15 mins, Tay 5 mins,
SF: Sutton 15 mins, Samuels 15 mins, McGruder 10 mins
PF: Kelly 25 mins, Samuels 10 mins, Judge 5 mins
C/PF2: Judge 20 mins, Asprilla 15 mins, JHR 5 mins
Redshirting Spradling and Southwell?
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Russell is going to bring it strong nest year. You heard it here fist. Go ahead and save this post.
Russell will get more minutes than Rodney at the 2 and Rodney will get more minutes than Sutton.
PG: Pullen 32 mins, Tay 5 mins, Myles 3
SG: Russell 20 mins, McGruder 15 mins, Tay 5 mins,
SF: Sutton 15 mins, Samuels 15 mins, McGruder 10 mins
PF: Kelly 25 mins, Samuels 10 mins, Judge 5 mins
C/PF2: Judge 20 mins, Asprilla 15 mins, JHR 5 mins
Redshirting Spradling and Southwell?
Naw, I was just being lazy. Consider this "meaningful game minutes"
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i gave up on the position minutes as too confusing, so just totals. noting that pullen still gets lots of minutes off ball.
pullen 33
kelly 25
samuels 23
asprilla 20
judge 20
sutton 19
mcgruder 17
myles 16
russell 14 (right now, i don't know how to choose between myles, russell and spradling, i just know i don't want irving)
spradling 8
irving 5
trying to imagine a world where southwell, jhr and the short walkon pf don't get any minutes. also hoping that the irving minutes are all at the start of the year and go to spradling and the others later on.
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our guards are HORRIBLE. (minus jpullz) The fact that fans are clamoring for more minutes from Martavious "7-28 in conference play" Irving just shows how brutal it is.
Front court will probably be really good, though.
looking at it like this sort of highlights the elephant on the message board .... expectations are way too high for this team. unless maybe russell dramatically improves or mcgruder finds a handle.
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our guards are HORRIBLE. (minus jpullz) The fact that fans are clamoring for more minutes from Martavious "7-28 in conference play" Irving just shows how brutal it is.
Front court will probably be really good, though.
looking at it like this sort of highlights the elephant on the message board .... expectations are way too high for this team. unless maybe russell dramatically improves or mcgruder finds a handle.
worrying about how good our guards (3 So, 2 Fr, 1 Canadian) are going to be in 7 months highlights the theme of this thread
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our guards are HORRIBLE. (minus jpullz) The fact that fans are clamoring for more minutes from Martavious "7-28 in conference play" Irving just shows how brutal it is.
Front court will probably be really good, though.
looking at it like this sort of highlights the elephant on the message board .... expectations are way too high for this team. unless maybe russell dramatically improves or mcgruder finds a handle.
It's going to be the main offseason talking point (aside from recruiting)
I'm clinging to the hope that Russell just accepted that he wasn't going to get many minutes behind Pullz and Clems and just kinda coasted. I do think he's way better than he showed. I think there were glimpes of that very early in the season. If Russell/McGruder can just be as good as Stewart/Harris (I think they can be better), with the strength at the other positions, I think we will be very good.
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Well if Frank holds to his "improve or your gone" mantra, we can only assume that Russell has this year to get better, or they'll be another scholarship open after next season.
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are these minutes for the season or for big12 games and other games that actually matter? cause if it's for ALL games then i have a feeling everyone is drastically underestimating victor here.
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Well if Frank holds to his "improve or your gone" mantra, we can only assume that Russell has this year to get better, or they'll be another scholarship open after next season.
There will most certainly be another scholarship next season. It's not a question of 'if', it's a question of 'who'. I just don't see them carrying Russell, McGruder, Irving and Myles into their junior year.
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starters
pullen
grudz
sutton
kelly
judge
russell, irving - first guards in
samuels first big in
asprilla,jhr for wally and curt
new guys won't see much time
I predict quantam leaps of improvement for wally, jhr,rod,nick, and tay also jamar will be deadly from 3 next year
warm up a banner or two :runaway: :runaway:
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
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starters
pullen
grudz
sutton
kelly
judge
russell, irving - first guards in
samuels first big in
asprilla,jhr for wally and curt
new guys won't see much time
I predict quantam leaps of improvement for wally, jhr,rod,nick, and tay also jamar will be deadly from 3 next year
warm up a banner or two :runaway: :runaway:
if we are talking about starters, i dont see rod starting at the 2....
a) he's too tall to play Martin's 2 and b) too good of a shooter
hes a three in my eyes
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You guys remember when I was calling for Martavious' to be kicked off the team all season? yeah....
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I'm gonna spew some lbiq here and say that the college game is all about the guards, look who won the tourney (maybe the best guard duo in the country), are big guys are gonna be good, but it doesn't help if our guards can't get them the ball or at least give them the chance for put backs :dunno:
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
well 2 of them are sfs/2s on a team whose coach has never played less than 2 ball handlers. the other one put up about the worst stats of any player in the big 12 his freshman season (barely seeing the court behind a no talent, no name freshman combo and a sr walkon with perhaps the most limited bball skills ever seen on a big 12 team). so leaving releford entirely out of the conversation, i'm not sure how "interesting" it is, sugar dick.
besides, i bet southwell is unranked when the final rankings come out.
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
well 2 of them are sfs/2s on a team whose coach has never played less than 2 ball handlers. the other one put up about the worst stats of any player in the big 12 his freshman season (barely seeing the court behind a no talent, no name freshman combo and a sr walkon with perhaps the most limited bball skills ever seen on a big 12 team). so leaving releford entirely out of the conversation, i'm not sure how "interesting" it is, sugar dick.
besides, i bet southwell is unranked when the final rankings come out.
I rough ridin' love sys
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McGruder at the 2 is less than ideal. For example, can you imagine him leading a break like Pullen did last year? I can't really.
If Pullen has to do ALL the ball-handling when he's on the court, I'd expect it to cut into his scoring.
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McGruder at the 2 is less than ideal. For example, can you imagine him leading a break like Pullen did last year? I can't really.
If Pullen has to do ALL the ball-handling when he's on the court, I'd expect it to cut into his scoring.
I'm going to get murdered for this, but we'll be better if Pullen scores a little less and handles the ball more. At least given next years personel.
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Pullen at the point is necessary for our success next year, and is good for his future also. I loved our freshmen last year, matter of fact
I was all :chainsaw: about the fact that mcgruder, wally, and jhr didn't get thrown into the fire alot more, should of let'm figure it out on
the court as we went imo. I'm optimistic about their improvement because I can remember vividly how inconsistent jake was and how
useless jamar used to be, wouldn't be surprised if jam made the same jump yr 2-yr 3 as he did last year.
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Pullen at the point is necessary for our success next year, and is good for his future also. I loved our freshmen last year, matter of fact
I was all :chainsaw: about the fact that mcgruder, wally, and jhr didn't get thrown into the fire alot more, should of let'm figure it out on
the court as we went imo. I'm optimistic about their improvement because I can remember vividly how inconsistent jake was and how
useless jamar used to be, wouldn't be surprised if jam made the same jump yr 2-yr 3 as he did last year.
There's no such thing as optimism in Kansas State basketball.
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
well 2 of them are sfs/2s on a team whose coach has never played less than 2 ball handlers. the other one put up about the worst stats of any player in the big 12 his freshman season (barely seeing the court behind a no talent, no name freshman combo and a sr walkon with perhaps the most limited bball skills ever seen on a big 12 team). so leaving releford entirely out of the conversation, i'm not sure how "interesting" it is, sugar dick.
besides, i bet southwell is unranked when the final rankings come out.
hmmm, interesting. . .
It's probably time to get back to watching youtube clips of high school boys basketball until the wee hours of the morning, afterall you are resident unpaid recruiting expert/internet message board link gatherer. You probably watch more underage footage of sweaty dudes banging around than a homosexual pedophile. Tell me this sys, do you get off watching those boy's weenies bounce while they play half speed AAU games?
sorry so mean
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
well 2 of them are sfs/2s on a team whose coach has never played less than 2 ball handlers. the other one put up about the worst stats of any player in the big 12 his freshman season (barely seeing the court behind a no talent, no name freshman combo and a sr walkon with perhaps the most limited bball skills ever seen on a big 12 team). so leaving releford entirely out of the conversation, i'm not sure how "interesting" it is, sugar dick.
besides, i bet southwell is unranked when the final rankings come out.
hmmm, interesting. . .
It's probably time to get back to watching youtube clips of high school boys basketball until the wee hours of the morning, afterall you are resident unpaid recruiting expert/internet message board link gatherer. You probably watch more underage footage of sweaty dudes banging around than a homosexual pedophile. Tell me this sys, do you get off watching those boy's weenies bounce while they play half speed AAU games?
sorry so mean
he sounds like either a democrat or a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), amirite, sugar dick?
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are these minutes for the season or for big12 games and other games that actually matter? cause if it's for ALL games then i have a feeling everyone is drastically underestimating victor here.
Excellent point RD. I have a feeling Victor is the new Merri :ohno:
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sorry so mean.
don't worry about it, sugar dick.
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are these minutes for the season or for big12 games and other games that actually matter? cause if it's for ALL games then i have a feeling everyone is drastically underestimating victor here.
Excellent point RD. I have a feeling Victor is the new Merri :ohno:
Yeah, but at least we any team that can recruit would have a better chance of getting his brother by playing him. Energy had no upside.
FMP
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I like these offseason discussions.
Some thoughts:
It sounds like Pullen will get lots of minutes at PG, but that could shake out several ways. If someone steps up that can handle PG duties, I think Pullen could slide over to play SG more, but that is up in the air. Clearly, Frank has some options and we'll probably spend the OOC games (especially the "gimmees") seeing all kinds of different line-ups on the perimeter. Irving and Russell will get their share, but I won't be shocked to see some 20+ minute games from both Myles and Sprads to see what they can do (if/when they "earn" it of course). I also expect McGruder to get some minutes at the 2 b/c if he develops at all defensively, he should be our 2nd scoring option on the perimeter, and Frank will want to see him get 20 MPG (at least) splitting time at SG and SF (probably more at SF). We'll have to see though, clearly he dropped off offensively as last season progressed and I'm hoping that was just some freshman funk and not an indication of what he really will become. Southwell will likely be mixed there as well, he's really the wildcard of the group. I think Sprads comes in as this years Russell; it seems the staff expects quite a bit of him and we'll have to see how he handles it.
There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
With McGruds/Sutton at the SF spot (hopefully Sutton matures a little more and we won't see quite the fluctuation in production), I think it will be tough to justify JamSam at the SF spot unless its a specific match-up situation.
Then you have the frontcourt which should be a major strenght. If Kelly steps forward, he could be one of the best PFs in the league. Wally Judge should be in that conversation as well, it will be interesting to see who becomes better, but both could be all-league types IMHO. JamSam should also become a solid undersized PF to split minutes there. I think there will be a transition period for Asprilla and his minutes will probably average under 20 on the year, but he'll vary based on match-ups. One night he may get 12 minutes, and the next 25. I also expect he'll struggle a bit with foul trouble at times to as he transitions to better competition. We also can't forget he'll be basically out one year from competitive basketball, I mean he's basically been a practice player at Cloud. Plus, he missed a good portion of his FR year with injury. So to expect him to be some 20+ MPG game player seems a bit much, but perhaps the Art comments are correct and he'll prove me wrong. Finally you have JHR, who I think will see minutes similar to this year as he continues to get his body into D1 condition. He'll be a major contributer and impact games at times, then it will be tough to get him on the floor, probably similar to Asprilla. But having a big body enforcer and a long athletic enforcer is never a bad thing, as long as both stay satisified with their roles.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
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I love how we have 3 Rivals 150 guards and everyone over here is like, "our guard f*cking suck and my computer agrees".
BMW, on the other hand, thinks Releford, a guy rated around the same and who redshirted last season, will be the best guy on their team next year.
It's an interesting dynamic of cynicism and unbridled optimism
well 2 of them are sfs/2s on a team whose coach has never played less than 2 ball handlers. the other one put up about the worst stats of any player in the big 12 his freshman season (barely seeing the court behind a no talent, no name freshman combo and a sr walkon with perhaps the most limited bball skills ever seen on a big 12 team). so leaving releford entirely out of the conversation, i'm not sure how "interesting" it is, sugar dick.
besides, i bet southwell is unranked when the final rankings come out.
hmmm, interesting. . .
It's probably time to get back to watching youtube clips of high school boys basketball until the wee hours of the morning, afterall you are resident unpaid recruiting expert/internet message board link gatherer. You probably watch more underage footage of sweaty dudes banging around than a homosexual pedophile. Tell me this sys, do you get off watching those boy's weenies bounce while they play half speed AAU games?
sorry so mean
he sounds like either a democrat or a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), amirite, sugar dick?
JFC, terrible post :facepalm:
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Pullen at the point is necessary for our success next year, and is good for his future also. I loved our freshmen last year, matter of fact
I was all :chainsaw: about the fact that mcgruder, wally, and jhr didn't get thrown into the fire alot more, should of let'm figure it out on
the court as we went imo. I'm optimistic about their improvement because I can remember vividly how inconsistent jake was and how
useless jamar used to be, wouldn't be surprised if jam made the same jump yr 2-yr 3 as he did last year.
There's no such thing as optimism in Kansas State basketball.
qft. people never seem to understand this.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
That's fair, but also extremely glass is half empty. We'll see what happens. I think both McGruder and Russell potentially can be better than Brown ever dreamed of being.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
That's fair, but also extremely glass is half empty. We'll see what happens. I think both McGruder and Russell potentially can be better than Brown ever dreamed of being.
McGruder - maybe. But he's a completely different player.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
That's fair, but also extremely glass is half empty. We'll see what happens. I think both McGruder and Russell potentially can be better than Brown ever dreamed of being.
Yeah. The Brown talking point isn't technically wrong, but it's likely going to go down a tree falling in the woods talking point. Getting rid of him was the wrong move, but I doubt we actually ever miss him. (no we didn't miss him this year)
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Yeah. The Brown talking point isn't technically wrong, but it's likely going to go down a tree falling in the woods talking point. Getting rid of him was the wrong move, but I doubt we actually ever miss him. (no we didn't miss him this year)
Its clear Frank believed less is more when it came to Brown (and Anderson). Definitely true with Anderson. I can see the arguments for Brown, but whatever. I'll let Frank run his team and if it gets him fired so be it, but I don't think getting rid of Brown will even remotely be a factor in that.
I just can't get over that the best he could do after all that production is land at Lou-Mon, a pretty terrible low major program. At least Anderson landed at a BCS school.
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Jacob - 39
Curtis - 35
Wally - 35
Jamar - 30
Dominique - 30
Rodney - 15
Freddy - 5
Jordan - 5
Nick - 5
Martavious - 1
Perfection.
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Jacob - 39
Curtis - 35
Wally - 35
Jamar - 30
Dominique - 30
Rodney - 15
Freddy - 5
Jordan - 5
Nick - 5
Martavious - 1
Perfection.
Sutton's going to play 15 mpg at off guard? Interesting.
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Tall, lean, boarding, dunk machines.
That first 5 handles any other 5 we could put together.
Not close.
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McGruder at the 2 is less than ideal. For example, can you imagine him leading a break like Pullen did last year? I can't really.
If Pullen has to do ALL the ball-handling when he's on the court, I'd expect it to cut into his scoring.
I'm going to get murdered for this, but we'll be better if Pullen scores a little less and handles the ball more. At least given next years personel.
I'm terrified of pullen handling the ball as much as denis did. maybe there wasn't that much of a disparity b/t denis and pullen's ball handling (<---lol) but I think that more pullen = more turnovers. I suppose the argument would be that compared to whatever scrub guard we have out there, pullen's turnovers (though they might be a lot) would be less than that scrub guard.
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i gave up on the position minutes as too confusing, so just totals. noting that pullen still gets lots of minutes off ball.
pullen 33
kelly 25
samuels 23
asprilla 20
judge 20
sutton 19
mcgruder 17
myles 16
russell 14 (right now, i don't know how to choose between myles, russell and spradling, i just know i don't want irving)
spradling 8
irving 5
trying to imagine a world where southwell, jhr and the short walkon pf don't get any minutes. also hoping that the irving minutes are all at the start of the year and go to spradling and the others later on.
Looks about right, I think McGruder could get 20-25 mpg by the end of the year though. As long as he can guard he is by far our second best offense player on the perimeter. EMAW is going to be a load inside next year.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
'zacker throwing out the high bbiq :bball:
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
We don't need them to make THAT much of a jump. Just for them to be able to compliment Pullen and be decent big 12 players.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
to be fair, while brown was a statistically superior player, and also appeared to be a better player to any observer of kstate games... the team was a lot better without him.
neither i, nor you, have any way of knowing if replacing brown had a positive or negative impact on the team last year. but it's a good bit harder to second guess the decision, when the coach that made that decision, ended up with a team that was substantially better than any(rational)one expected.
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IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years....
there is no comparison to be made between pullen's fr year and irving's. none. not at all. i was a little surprised, looking back at the stats, how similar blake young's jr year stat profile was to irving's. young was marginally better in most categories, but really it's a decent comparo.
russell didn't play enough to earn a end of year kenpom statline. :blank:
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
No, I don't have to trust Frank's pattern. All I know is he ran off a player that was good enough to get 20 minutes/game and 8 points a game for Irving and Russell, who couldn't come close to matching that production in the same backcourt.
to be fair, while brown was a statistically superior player, and also appeared to be a better player to any observer of kstate games... the team was a lot better without him.
neither i, nor you, have any way of knowing if replacing brown had a positive or negative impact on the team last year. but it's a good bit harder to second guess the decision, when the coach that made that decision, ended up with a team that was substantially better than any(rational)one expected.
No, it's still pretty easy to second guess. It'll be even easier when this year's team is substantially worse than anyone expects.
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No, it's still pretty easy to second guess.
you're a strangely confident man.
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There is a lot of talk about Pullen and other "terrible" guards, but you've got to have some trust in Frank's pattern here. I think its highly likely at least one of the options we have shows tremendous development from his FR to SO years, most likely Russell or McGruder. I think Irving "is what he is" and will take on more of a Clent Stewart role, granted he's a different body-type/player. But its good he'll take that role as a reserve and not the feature PG like Stew had to over his career.
IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
We don't need them to make THAT much of a jump. Just for them to be able to compliment Pullen and be decent big 12 players.
i suppose they wouldn't but that would depend on how you end that sentence....."don't have need them to make THAT much of a jump.." to accomplish what? big 12 championship? another t-4th place finish? elite 8 run? if we just want to make it to the tournament, then I suppose they won't have to be that good. if we want more, they'll have to make a significant jump.
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IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
We don't need them to make THAT much of a jump. Just for them to be able to compliment Pullen and be decent big 12 players.
i suppose they wouldn't but that would depend on how you end that sentence....."don't have need them to make THAT much of a jump.." to accomplish what? big 12 championship? another t-4th place finish? elite 8 run? if we just want to make it to the tournament, then I suppose they won't have to be that good. if we want more, they'll have to make a significant jump.
We could win the league with average play from one guard position.
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IMO, pullen's "leap" between his fr and soph years was because he played as much as he did. Irving and Russell, combined, didn't get as many minutes per game as pullen did his freshman year, nor were they, combined, as "productive" as pullen his freshman year. I understand that the reason Irv/Russell didn't play as much was because we had guys in front of them in Denis and Jake that weren't there for Jake (Stew and Blake). Rodney, of any of the guard-ish freshman, looks like he got the experience (and has the talent) to make a leap from his Fr to So years, and he'll be taking minutes away from Dom, not irv/russ.
We don't need them to make THAT much of a jump. Just for them to be able to compliment Pullen and be decent big 12 players.
i suppose they wouldn't but that would depend on how you end that sentence....."don't have need them to make THAT much of a jump.." to accomplish what? big 12 championship? another t-4th place finish? elite 8 run? if we just want to make it to the tournament, then I suppose they won't have to be that good. if we want more, they'll have to make a significant jump.
We could win the league with average play from one guard position.
agree to disagree. we couldn't win it with 2 above average guards this year. sure, wally and gruds should be better. asprilla should/will be an upgrade over luis, but if jake is forced to be the primary ball handler, we won't win the league. And I think it might be too much to ask for Russell or Irving or even Maple Leaf to be a decent Big 12 point.
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Pullen at the point is necessary for our success next year, and is good for his future also. I loved our freshmen last year, matter of fact
I was all :chainsaw: about the fact that mcgruder, wally, and jhr didn't get thrown into the fire alot more, should of let'm figure it out on
the court as we went imo. I'm optimistic about their improvement because I can remember vividly how inconsistent jake was and how
useless jamar used to be, wouldn't be surprised if jam made the same jump yr 2-yr 3 as he did last year.
Excellent 16th post "two-seven". Jake wants to get in to the association. We need Jake to get in to the association. That's only going to happen at PG.
I think McGruder and Judge are ready to score in double digits next year and that's what will have to happen to allow Jake to concentrate on running the O and dropping dimes.