goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on March 13, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
-
after watching last night, im almost positive it is rick barnes.
-
Generally its whoever has the worst players. Barnes' collapse was no worse than Lon's a week or so ago, though it was a bigger game for Rick and his team.
-
Generally its whoever has the worst players. Barnes' collapse was no worse than Lon's a week or so ago, though it was a bigger game for Rick and his team.
i dont remember lon's being that bad. what mistakes did he make that you can point out?
-
Generally its whoever has the worst players. Barnes' collapse was no worse than Lon's a week or so ago, though it was a bigger game for Rick and his team.
i dont remember lon's being that bad. what mistakes did he make that you can point out?
Fair point. After giving up about 12 straight I probably would have just run iso plays for Buddy (Big 12 POY), but Hilton Magic, etc.
-
It's probably oscar.
-
Also, given his recruiting, Barnes is the coach who does less with more the most in the Big 12. Last night was just a continuation of that.
-
Generally its whoever has the worst players. Barnes' collapse was no worse than Lon's a week or so ago, though it was a bigger game for Rick and his team.
i dont remember lon's being that bad. what mistakes did he make that you can point out?
Fair point. After giving up about 12 straight I probably would have just run iso plays for Buddy (Big 12 POY), but Hilton Magic, etc.
i think lon screwed up in his offense, but tactically he didnt make as many mistakes. he called timeouts when he needed to a stayed aggressive in the offense. rick did not.
ricks screw ups that i remember 13 hours later-
1. somewhere in the 10-0 run did not use a timeout. he had used them in the first half and early in the second to calm his team down and get a bucket. for some reason, he thought he was out.
2. got a 10 second call on one of the final possessions when he had a timeout. freshman point guard, sure, but he could have called the TO for him.
3. that NBA three by felix with 6 seconds left. i think he still had a timeout to call after the initial play broke down. could be wrong though.
-
oh and also he was running 0 offense with like 4 minutes to go. no pressure on isu to continue defending the ball and no way for texas to draw a foul and hit free throws.
-
oh and also he was running 0 offense with like 4 minutes to go. no pressure on isu to continue defending the ball and no way for texas to draw a foul and hit free throws.
Yup. He was damn near running the four corners with six minutes left.
-
oh and also he was running 0 offense with like 4 minutes to go. no pressure on isu to continue defending the ball and no way for texas to draw a foul and hit free throws.
Yup. He was damn near running the four corners with six minutes left.
Coaches who go possession ball with a lead way too early are very annoying.
-
Who's the worst in game coach? It's Barnes or Drew.
Barnes made some terrible offensive decisions in the second half last night and not putting any pressure at all on Monte Morris going full court with 5 seconds left is just inexcusable.
-
I usually fall back to Barnes....but oscar did lose a game with how many seconds left?
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA, the other being a lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
-
Huggins did the same in the game at KU. WV up 7 or 8 with 3 minuntes to go and they went to a stall, stand at half court and hold the ball and then jack up some stupid shot.
I hate coaches that don't stay aggressive.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
:love:
i feel sorry for people with fat faces, cause SD just put this post right in them.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
steve dave (irl friend),
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
steve dave,
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
tell me why. I enjoy stats and reasoning and long walks on the you looking like an idiot.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
:love:
i feel sorry for people with fat faces, cause SD just put this post right in them.
thanks bud
-
Barnes is great when compared to just about everybody but Coach K and Self.
Regarding the worst "in-game coach" in the Big 12, it's like asking which cheerleader helps the team the most. They can maybe affect a basket or 2 a game.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
steve dave (irl friend),
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
Yeah sd, there's more to being a good coach than just winning all the time and never missing the postseason. I'm sorry you can't see that.
-
Barnes is great when compared to just about everybody but Coach K and Self.
Regarding the worst "in-game coach" in the Big 12, it's like asking which cheerleader helps the team the most. They can maybe affect a basket or 2 a game.
I'd say Barnes is a top 15 coach.
-
Barnes is great when compared to just about everybody but Coach K and Self.
Regarding the worst "in-game coach" in the Big 12, it's like asking which cheerleader helps the team the most. They can maybe affect a basket or 2 a game.
I'd say Barnes is a top 15 coach.
Yeah it would be really difficult to name more than 15 better coaches.
-
Barnes is great when compared to just about everybody but Coach K and Self.
Regarding the worst "in-game coach" in the Big 12, it's like asking which cheerleader helps the team the most. They can maybe affect a basket or 2 a game.
I'd say Barnes is a top 15 coach.
Well yeah, if you base it on hand picked stats like winning pct. or postseason success. But based on other stats like a hatred for Texas then he's not even in the top 100.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
steve dave,
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
tell me why. I enjoy stats and reasoning and long walks on the you looking like an idiot.
Its not about what he does, its about what he does with what he has in the last 5 or so years.
Since the 2008 class, Barnes has brought 16 Top 100 high school recruits to Texas. 7 of those were Top 25 players. 6 of those were McDonald's All Americans. IMO, the results during that time do not live up to recruiting that type of talent.
2009 - 4th in the Big 12, 7 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2010 - 6th in the Big 12, 8 seed and 0-1 in the NCAAs.
2011 - 2nd in the Big 12, 4 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2012 - 6th in the Big 12, 11 seed and 0-1 in the NCAAs.
2013 - 7th in the Big 12, under .500 CBI lol appearance (loss).
2014 - 3rd (tie) in the Big 12, 7 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2015 - 6th in the Big 12, bubble team.
Those types of finishes don't seem to line up with the talent he recruits. Don't get me wrong, that is a decent stretch and I'd probably be happy with it at K-State.
However, if I had a coach that went from finishing in the Big 12 1st (3 times), 2nd (4 times), and 3rd (2 times) with 2 Sweet Sixteens, 2 Elite 8s, and 1 Final Four in his first 10 years, then I'd probably be looking forward to a change.
-
steve dave,
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
tell me why. I enjoy stats and reasoning and long walks on the you looking like an idiot.
-Lost in the 2nd round with rough ridin' Kevin Durant and DJamer Augustin
-Texas is literally the easiest (read: best) job in the country and it's not even close. Coaches get paid $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, recruiting elite talent is easy pickings, facilities are elite, there's absolutely no pressure on the coach to do anything ever. They could lure a coach from damn near anywhere except maybe 6-7 schools.
-Outside of the blue bloods, history in college basketball is becoming increasingly irrelevant. If you're a P5 program, have a fuckton of money and no other program in your conference outside of Kansas that *should* be able to compete with you long term, you should be in contention for at least a Sweet 16 nearly every season. Under Barnes they aren't.
-He hasn't advanced past the Round of 32 since 2008. From 1998 to 2008 he did an excellent job. But he's lost a step since then.
-His recruiting has fallen off as of late as he's not locking up as many top recruits in Texas. Mind you, Never mind. He still gets enough talent to be the #1 shot blocking team in the country. And they're on the bubble.
-He does crap like the four corners when up 13 points like all the damn time.
Look, I don't think he's terrible. I think he's overall a better coach than Drew, Ford, or (especially) oscar. But like Mack he's lost a step and at this point Texas can do better than him.
Also, what _FAN said.
-
Going 4 corners was a huge :flush: But, I still love mocking Barnes haters. They are the same as Mack haters. Barnes has a higher win % at TX than Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Lon Kruger, Tex Winter, or Jack Hartman at KSU (and oscar weber at any stop in his career). Unless there was some stud who won shitloads from olden days that I don't know about Barnes has a higher win % at TX than any coach ever at KState. And it's not like Texas is some legendary basketball program. Since the 50s they have 1 elite 8 with a coach other than Barnes. And Barnes has never missed the post season (though this year will probably be the second time he missed the NCAA and he had one lol CBI year I can't believe they participated in).
steve dave,
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
tell me why. I enjoy stats and reasoning and long walks on the you looking like an idiot.
Its not about what he does, its about what he does with what he has in the last 5 or so years.
Since the 2008 class, Barnes has brought 16 Top 100 high school recruits to Texas. 7 of those were Top 25 players. 6 of those were McDonald's All Americans. IMO, the results during that time do not live up to recruiting that type of talent.
2009 - 4th in the Big 12, 7 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2010 - 6th in the Big 12, 8 seed and 0-1 in the NCAAs.
2011 - 2nd in the Big 12, 4 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2012 - 6th in the Big 12, 11 seed and 0-1 in the NCAAs.
2013 - 7th in the Big 12, under .500 CBI lol appearance (loss).
2014 - 3rd (tie) in the Big 12, 7 seed and 1-1 in the NCAAs.
2015 - 6th in the Big 12, bubble team.
Those types of finishes don't seem to line up with the talent he recruits. Don't get me wrong, that is a decent stretch and I'd probably be happy with it at K-State.
However, if I had a coach that went from finishing in the Big 12 1st (3 times), 2nd (4 times), and 3rd (2 times) with 2 Sweet Sixteens, 2 Elite 8s, and 1 Final Four in his first 10 years, then I'd probably be looking forward to a change.
Again, are there more than 15 coaches that have done better than the 7 year run you highlight? You could argue an exceptional year (Final Four or conference title) holds more weight but what Barnes has done isn't that easy, regardless of his recruiting.
-
I think Drew is probably a better coach today than Barnes. I never would have said that a few years ago. Barnes/Drew haters are usually the same people, though.
-
I think Drew is probably a better coach today than Barnes. I never would have said that a few years ago. Barnes/Drew haters are usually the same people, though.
Yeah Drew's definitely a better coach if you throw out the fact that he missed the tourney 3 out of the previous 6 seasons
-
im not a rick barnes hater. i just think hes probably lost it a little. he is a good recruiter and has been a very good coach for texas, but in the last few years hes kind of slowed down. id take him as our coach, fwiw.
-
Drew and Rick are the only two coaches in the league that will completely change their defense in march (zone to man). I don't respect that.
-
I think Drew is probably a better coach today than Barnes. I never would have said that a few years ago. Barnes/Drew haters are usually the same people, though.
Yeah Drew's definitely a better coach if you throw out the fact that he missed the tourney 3 out of the previous 6 seasons
He had 2 elite 8s in 3 years, and a sweet 16 last year. Barnes hasn't been to the second weekend of the tournament in 7 years. Drew is on the way up. Barnes is on the way down. I would have said Barnes is a top 5 coach 7 years ago.
-
I think Drew is probably a better coach today than Barnes. I never would have said that a few years ago. Barnes/Drew haters are usually the same people, though.
Yeah Drew's definitely a better coach if you throw out the fact that he missed the tourney 3 out of the previous 6 seasons
He had 2 elite 8s in 3 years, and a sweet 16 last year. Barnes hasn't been to the second weekend of the tournament in 7 years. Drew is on the way up. Barnes is on the way down. I would have said Barnes is a top 5 coach 7 years ago.
I've said it before, but success in the tournament is a poor indicator of how good/bad a coach is.
This year will be the first time Drew has made the tournament in back-to-back years. He's hasn't passed Barnes yet.
-
Fair or not, having expectations that are driven by 1) what you've proven you can do and 2) how well you recruit is a reasonable.
Barnes' recruiting has not dropped off; if anything it has slightly improved the last 8 years compared to his first 10 at Texas. Barnes had a 7 year run with 2 league titles, 5 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s, and 1 Final Four. He still recruits at a very high level and we know that he is capable of winning this league and making deep tournament runs, yet he's gone 8 years with nothing even close to that previous 7 years span. Yeah, he's still a successful coach compared to a lot of places, but compared to the bar he set for himself and the amount of talent he recruits (basically 3 Top 100s and 1 MCD AA per year) I find it hard to say he's being successful based on the expectations he's set for his program.
-
Fair or not, having expectations that are driven by 1) what you've proven you can do and 2) how well you recruit is a reasonable.
Barnes' recruiting has not dropped off; if anything it has slightly improved the last 8 years compared to his first 10 at Texas. Barnes had a 7 year run with 2 league titles, 5 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s, and 1 Final Four. He still recruits at a very high level and we know that he is capable of winning this league and making deep tournament runs, yet he's gone 8 years with nothing even close to that previous 7 years span. Yeah, he's still a successful coach compared to a lot of places, but compared to the bar he set for himself and the amount of talent he recruits (basically 3 Top 100s and 1 MCD AA per year) I find it hard to say he's being successful based on the expectations he's set for his program.
Yeah he's a lot like Roy Williams in that respect
-
Fair or not, having expectations that are driven by 1) what you've proven you can do and 2) how well you recruit is a reasonable.
Barnes' recruiting has not dropped off; if anything it has slightly improved the last 8 years compared to his first 10 at Texas. Barnes had a 7 year run with 2 league titles, 5 Sweet 16s, 3 Elite 8s, and 1 Final Four. He still recruits at a very high level and we know that he is capable of winning this league and making deep tournament runs, yet he's gone 8 years with nothing even close to that previous 7 years span. Yeah, he's still a successful coach compared to a lot of places, but compared to the bar he set for himself and the amount of talent he recruits (basically 3 Top 100s and 1 MCD AA per year) I find it hard to say he's being successful based on the expectations he's set for his program.
Yeah he's a lot like Roy Williams in that respect
True and Roy recruits even better (This is just ridiculous.) (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/north-carolina/recruiting#mcdonalds) He did have back to back league titles/Elite 8s as recently as the 11 and 12 seasons though.
-
Yeah I was wrong about the recruiting falloff talking point. Still, he shouldn't be underachieving this much with this group.
-
Yeah I was wrong about the recruiting falloff talking point. Still, he shouldn't be underachieving this much with this group.
He still does pretty well: http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/texas/recruiting#mcdonalds
I think he's underachieving, but he is the one that set the bar for the program.
-
steve dave,
happy birthday
your opinion is wrong on rick barnes
i hope you enjoy your day
tell me why. I enjoy stats and reasoning and long walks on the you looking like an idiot.
-Lost in the 2nd round with rough ridin' Kevin Durant and DJamer Augustin
-Texas is literally the easiest (read: best) job in the country and it's not even close. Coaches get paid $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, recruiting elite talent is easy pickings, facilities are elite, there's absolutely no pressure on the coach to do anything ever. They could lure a coach from damn near anywhere except maybe 6-7 schools.
-Outside of the blue bloods, history in college basketball is becoming increasingly irrelevant. If you're a P5 program, have a fuckton of money and no other program in your conference outside of Kansas that *should* be able to compete with you long term, you should be in contention for at least a Sweet 16 nearly every season. Under Barnes they aren't.
-He hasn't advanced past the Round of 32 since 2008. From 1998 to 2008 he did an excellent job. But he's lost a step since then.
-His recruiting has fallen off as of late as he's not locking up as many top recruits in Texas. Mind you, Never mind. He still gets enough talent to be the #1 shot blocking team in the country. And they're on the bubble.
-He does crap like the four corners when up 13 points like all the damn time.
Look, I don't think he's terrible. I think he's overall a better coach than Drew, Ford, or (especially) oscar. But like Mack he's lost a step and at this point Texas can do better than him.
Also, what _FAN said.
there are exactly 0 elite basketball facilities that look like a giant concrete statue of flan.
-
They sell beer at basketball games. :Chirp:
-
They sell beer at basketball games. :Chirp:
hello friend how are you today
-
Wonderful, thank you for asking.
-
Count me as someone who also would've said very nice things about Barnes about a decade ago. That being said, the guy is not living up to expectations. You can't compare his Texas run over the last seven years to most any other school, it is not an apples to apples comparison. With that talent, they should finish no worse than fourth every year in conference.
Barnes will return though. They don't give a damn about basketball in Austin, so this performance satisfies most.
-
Good job Rick!
-
It's probably oscar.
-
Well, make it 16 out of 17 years for alleged shitty coach Rick Barnes. Idiots.
-
Well, make it 16 out of 17 years for alleged shitty coach Rick Barnes. Idiots.
I still think he is underachieving given his recruiting, but whatever.
-
If there's one thing I know about steve dave, it's that he often sways on his stances. Keep on fighting, you guys.
-
If there's one thing I know about steve dave, it's that he often sways on his stances. Keep on fighting, you guys.
Stick with the Royals, pal.
-
There was some talk radio chatter last week about Barnes being on a hot seat. I was hoping he would get fired and that we would hire him.
-
There was some talk radio chatter last week about Barnes being on a hot seat. I was hoping he would get fired and that we would hire him.
Do you think he'd recruit 3 top 100s and 1 McDAA per year to Manhattan?
-
I would be OK with it if he did. :dunno:
-
I would be OK with it if he did. :dunno:
I would too, but that's not the question.
-
Who knows. Are those kids signing up for TX or for barnes? I would think that most of them are there for barnes or his assistants.
-
Was Tom Penders a recruiting juggernaut at Texas back before I was born? I have no idea but from listening to FAN around here it sounds like he and everyone else who preceded Barnes had multiple burger boys delivered on their door step every year. That's just the rich Texas basketball history.
-
I mean, it's clear to me that literally anyone could have success at Texas now that one person ever has had success at Texas.
-
Was Tom Penders recruiting balls out at Texas back before I was born? I have no idea but from listening to FAN around here it sounds like he and everyone else who preceded Barnes had multiple burger boys delivered on their door step every year. That's just the rich Texas basketball history.
I'm just comparing Barnes to Barnes. gE would've had Barnes fired 2 years ago if he had the exact same career at K-State.
-
Lies. With his recruiting he could miss the NCAA for a decade and the board consensus would still be to give him time.
-
Do you even remember GRCOAT? Was anyone calling for Huggins' head when we missed the NCAA?
-
Lies. With his recruiting he could miss the NCAA for a decade and the board consensus would still be to give him time.
Hmmm. That's a fair point.
He would've definitely felt heat with an under .500 record with that recruiting.
-
And lol at anyone arguing with steve dave about what the board consensus would be
-
If we had a front court like theirs I would be drunk and happy a lot.
-
I think he needs a new challenge, he's whipped ass at the same place for too long. We could give him that new challenge.
-
I think some underrate Barnes/Mack but sometimes SD overstates his case
-
Barnes would absolutely get top 100 players to Manhattan.
-
You don't rack up 50,000 posts on your own message board by taking the middle ground.
-
I think some underrate Barnes/Mack but sometimes SD overstates his case
Mack is better than Barnes and was better before UT as well. Mack hate makes me angry. He's underrated if anything.
Not that Barnes is/ was bad or anything.
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
I think every at-large bid coach in this years Tourney could do about as well as Barnes if they had the UT gig.
-
FWIW, I've never contended Barnes is bad overall. I just think Barnes now compared to Barnes his first 10 years or so isn't living up to the standard he set for himself.
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
I think every at-large bid coach in this years Tourney could do about as well as Barnes if they had the UT gig.
Most of them would not be able to recruit as well as Barnes.
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
I think every at-large bid coach in this years Tourney could do about as well as Barnes if they had the UT gig.
Most of them would not be able to recruit as well as Barnes.
I think they could recruit very well at Texas. All the at large bid coaches are good recruiters...good enough to land top 100 talent. Maybe not as many McD's, but good enough to never be worse than 4th in talent in the Big 12.
-
Was Tom Penders recruiting balls out at Texas back before I was born? I have no idea but from listening to FAN around here it sounds like he and everyone else who preceded Barnes had multiple burger boys delivered on their door step every year. That's just the rich Texas basketball history.
I'm just comparing Barnes to Barnes. gE would've had Barnes fired 2 years ago if he had the exact same career at K-State.
I've always said that a coach that gets us into the NCAA 4 out of 5 years is OK by me, indefinitely. According to steve dave's calculations he's 16 out of 17 so I think we'd be good here.
FWIW, I've never contended Barnes is bad overall. I just think Barnes now compared to Barnes his first 10 years or so isn't living up to the standard he set for himself.
so we're in agreement that he's a top 15 coach?
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
-
I think K-State should make the NCAA every year. My perspective, however flawed on that is based on the fact that IMO K-State is around 3rd in the Big 12 in terms of actually caring about basketball and arguably has the 2nd best overall b-ball tradition in the Big 12. I just don't think its asking all that much to be good enough to make the NCAA tourney every year, particularly in era where the Big 12 is thriving on perception that IMO doesn't match reality.
-
I guess I don't think making the tournament is the best way to measure success. Barnes makes the tournament, but when was the last time he was a threat to make the Final 4? Hell, with Durant they didn't make the Sweet 16. Calipari and Roy have both missed the tournament recently, but when they make it they always have the potential to make the Final 4, even if they're an 8 seed.
So yeah, if you want consistency and the ability to go into every season knowing you won't get embarrassed or really accomplish anything, Barnes is your guy. If you want someone riskier, who may not make the tournament, but may actually get a 1-3 seed every few years, there's more than 15 guys out there for you to choose from.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
-
Also, FAN didn't pick 7 years randomly. Texas won the Big 12 and was a 2 seed in 2008.
-
Has anyone suggested Kruger yet? His team is way too talented to have lost that many games this season, especially all of the close ones.
Also, go look at his career resume. Not nearly as good as you'd think. A lot of 1st round exits in the tourney and only one conference title.
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
it gets me really excited to argue the case of stud coaches Mack and Rick because I know it's coming. it's so easy to crush walk off homers off of this low/medium talking point. like, people should know better but here they come! and I'm like the slugger on rookie of the year wagging my tongue at the floater but instead of whiffing on it I crush one into the street over dead center.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrDZ8fdt.gif&hash=44567852b7900352b4d64d22fd7290c4293b1101)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs8whhdD.gif&hash=65c4e0096373f19087997ff57802f1130a64faa9)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F64T6QS0.gif&hash=50638f14b301286c639b3c7f6ae6ae4f6f8a4fea)
-
SD do you like rookie of the year or little big league better? I like little big league but they're both great.
-
SD do you like rookie of the year or little big league better? I like little big league but they're both great.
rookie of the year
-
Rick is just glad that little kid got a chance to realize his dream and play professional ball. He's a fantastic guy, that Rick.
-
SD do you like rookie of the year or little big league better? I like little big league but they're both great.
rookie of the year
I like it but there are some things that always bothered me about it. Remember the scene with the hidden ball trick? Illegal. Ball doesn't become live again after a timeout until pitcher touches the rubber.
-
Also, FAN didn't pick 7 years randomly. Texas won the Big 12 and was a 2 seed in 2008.
Yeah, my argument is not that Barnes is a bad coach. I'm just saying he's dropped a level from the previous 7 years when he was winning conference titles and making Sweet 16s, Elite 8s, and a Final 4. That's all.
-
I think K-State should make the NCAA every year. My perspective, however flawed on that is based on the fact that IMO K-State is around 3rd in the Big 12 in terms of actually caring about basketball and arguably has the 2nd best overall b-ball tradition in the Big 12. I just don't think its asking all that much to be good enough to make the NCAA tourney every year, particularly in era where the Big 12 is thriving on perception that IMO doesn't match reality.
Tradition doesn't really mean much IMO. As far as most people are concerned our tradition goes back to when Huggins came. Lon's run is very old and our Final Fours happened in another era.
-
Do you even remember GRCOAT? Was anyone calling for Huggins' head when we missed the NCAA?
Well technically GRCOAT applied to the year after Huggins left. The Huggins year we were loaded with a bunch of veteran players. The top 5 scorers were all Wooldridge guys (Martin, Hoskins, Harris, Stewart, and Wright). Huggins turned them into a 10-6 team in conference after having gone 6-10 under Wooldridge.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
I would rather have any of those guys on the 6 of 7 tourney years list instead of Barnes. As for power conference guys not making the tourney in six of the last seven years that are better than Barnes, here's guys that at least have an argument:
Donovan, Sean Miller, Hoiberg, Kruger, Huggins, Mike Brey, Kevin Ollie, Mick Cronin, Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Jamie Dixon, Tony Bennett, Steve Lavin, Mark Turgeon, John Beilein, Dana Altman, Mike Anderson, Frank Martin
I'd definitely rather have Donovan, Miller, Kruger, Brey, Ollie, or Bennett over Barnes.
The relevant comparison here is how would another coach do at Texas -- Big 12 version (which is why the Tom Penders conversation is irrelevant).
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
I would rather have any of those guys on the 6 of 7 tourney years list instead of Barnes. As for power conference guys not making the tourney in six of the last seven years that are better than Barnes, here's guys that at least have an argument:
Donovan, Sean Miller, Hoiberg, Kruger, Huggins, Mike Brey, Kevin Ollie, Mick Cronin, Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Jamie Dixon, Tony Bennett, Steve Lavin, Mark Turgeon, John Beilein, Dana Altman, Mike Anderson, Frank Martin
I'd definitely rather have Donovan, Miller, Kruger, Brey, Ollie, or Bennett over Barnes.
The relevant comparison here is how would another coach do at Texas -- Big 12 version (which is why the Tom Penders conversation is irrelevant).
I'd agree with Miller, Donovan, Bennett, and maybe Beilein, but that's it.
-
SD do you like rookie of the year or little big league better? I like little big league but they're both great.
rookie of the year
I like it but there are some things that always bothered me about it. Remember the scene with the hidden ball trick? Illegal. Ball doesn't become live again after a timeout until pitcher touches the rubber.
Also, there's a one game playoff with the Mets to make the World Series. At that time both were in the NL East, and a 1 game playoff would've just put them in the NLCS vs. the Western division champ. That always bothered me.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
I would rather have any of those guys on the 6 of 7 tourney years list instead of Barnes. As for power conference guys not making the tourney in six of the last seven years that are better than Barnes, here's guys that at least have an argument:
Donovan, Sean Miller, Hoiberg, Kruger, Huggins, Mike Brey, Kevin Ollie, Mick Cronin, Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Jamie Dixon, Tony Bennett, Steve Lavin, Mark Turgeon, John Beilein, Dana Altman, Mike Anderson, Frank Martin
I'd definitely rather have Donovan, Miller, Kruger, Brey, Ollie, or Bennett over Barnes.
The relevant comparison here is how would another coach do at Texas -- Big 12 version (which is why the Tom Penders conversation is irrelevant).
I'd agree with Miller, Donovan, Bennett, and maybe Beilein, but that's it.
Those are pretty clear. I also think Brey is about a billion times better than Barnes.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
Dave Rose? That's probs why he's the only only person only your list with a first and last name.
Neither Rose nor Fisher have made it out of the sweet 16 at their current schools, and they're playing in mid-major conferences. Whoopty rough ridin' doo winning the mountain west or wcw.
Donovan (final 4 last year, 3 elite 8s right before that and three firsts in the four years prior) and Beilein (runner-up and elite 8 the two years prior, two firsts in the three prior) clearly belong on the list over both of them. Miller too. Two elite 8s in the four years prior and three firsts in the last five.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
I would rather have any of those guys on the 6 of 7 tourney years list instead of Barnes. As for power conference guys not making the tourney in six of the last seven years that are better than Barnes, here's guys that at least have an argument:
Donovan, Sean Miller, Hoiberg, Kruger, Huggins, Mike Brey, Kevin Ollie, Mick Cronin, Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Jamie Dixon, Tony Bennett, Steve Lavin, Mark Turgeon, John Beilein, Dana Altman, Mike Anderson, Frank Martin
I'd definitely rather have Donovan, Miller, Kruger, Brey, Ollie, or Bennett over Barnes.
The relevant comparison here is how would another coach do at Texas -- Big 12 version (which is why the Tom Penders conversation is irrelevant).
I'd agree with Miller, Donovan, Bennett, and maybe Beilein, but that's it.
Those are pretty clear. I also think Brey is about a billion times better than Barnes.
That's incredibly rough ridin' stupid. He has one sweet 16 in his entire 20 year D1 career, twelve rough ridin' years ago. He's missed the NCAAs five out of 15 seasons at ND. He had an overall losing season just last year. eff that. oscar is better than he is. ND just doesn't give a crap about basketball.
-
I'm not sure I'd quite put him top 15 after the last 7 years. Probably top 25 though.
How many other coaches have made the tournament 6 out of the last 7 years?
You could make an argument against Barnes if you value deep runs or a conference title over consistency. But I can tell you that in the Big 12 you've got:
Big 12: Self
Pac 12: No one
ACC: K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim
Big 10: Izzo, Ryan, Matta
Big East: Wright
Big West: Few, Dave Rose
MWC: Fisher
SEC: Cal
A10: Smart
Now, you can add in coaches like Donovan and Sean Miller and maybe put him outside the top 15. (You could also argue he belongs ahead of guys like Fisher and Dave Rose, perhaps.)
I may be missing some.
I would rather have any of those guys on the 6 of 7 tourney years list instead of Barnes. As for power conference guys not making the tourney in six of the last seven years that are better than Barnes, here's guys that at least have an argument:
Donovan, Sean Miller, Hoiberg, Kruger, Huggins, Mike Brey, Kevin Ollie, Mick Cronin, Larry Brown, Fran Dunphy, Jamie Dixon, Tony Bennett, Steve Lavin, Mark Turgeon, John Beilein, Dana Altman, Mike Anderson, Frank Martin
I'd definitely rather have Donovan, Miller, Kruger, Brey, Ollie, or Bennett over Barnes.
The relevant comparison here is how would another coach do at Texas -- Big 12 version (which is why the Tom Penders conversation is irrelevant).
I'd agree with Miller, Donovan, Bennett, and maybe Beilein, but that's it.
Those are pretty clear. I also think Brey is about a billion times better than Barnes.
That's incredibly rough ridin' stupid. He has one sweet 16 in his entire 20 year D1 career, twelve rough ridin' years ago. He's missed the NCAAs five out of 15 seasons at ND. He had an overall losing season just last year. eff that. oscar is better than he is. ND just doesn't give a crap about basketball.
oscar is better than Mike Brey? Good luck with that one. But hey, that's just one mans opinion.
To emphasize for the dense headed -- the relevant comparison is how these guys would do at Big 12 Texas.
EDIT: Although, my dense head just took Texas to the Sweet 16, with a Barnes victory over Brey. Their talent is just too alluring!
-
Mike Brey would not do better at Texas than Rick Barnes you dumbfuck. He has one particularly good season this year and shitbrains come out of the woodwork saying what a great coach he is. He's a rough ridin' less accomplished oscar that didn't get fired is what he is.
His name wouldn't have been dribbling out of your fat rough ridin' mouth after 15-17 last season and that says it all about old Brey and your dumbfuckery.
-
I don't know why people think Texas has some sort of huge advantage in basketball over schools like Notre Dame, Ohio State, Florida, Michigan, Louisville, UConn, etc.
-
I don't know why people think Texas has some sort of huge advantage in basketball over schools like Notre Dame, Ohio State, Florida, Michigan, Louisville, UConn, etc.
People in Texas think they have an advantage over everyone in everything. No idea about the people outside of Texas
-
There's just no way you can put Barnes in the top 15. Off the top of my head:
Coach K, Cal, Donovan, Pitino, Self, Marshall, Belein, Izzo, Roy, Bennet, Miller, Ryan, Boeheim, Brown, Few, Wright, Hoiberg.
There are a couple more that you could argue as well, and you could even argue a couple of those. I think Barnes is a borderline top 25 coach.
-
There's just no way you can put Barnes in the top 15. Off the top of my head:
Coach K, Cal, Donovan, Pitino, Self, Marshall, Belein, Izzo, Roy, Bennet, Miller, Ryan, Boeheim, Brown, Few, Wright, Hoiberg.
There are a couple more that you could argue as well, and you could even argue a couple of those. I think Barnes is a borderline top 25 coach.
Gregg Marshall? Larry Brown? Hoiberg?
eh
And Few's seen what happens to Gonzaga coaches when they leave, too.
-
You are being especially stubborn, michigancat. Even for goEMAW.
-
There's just no way you can put Barnes in the top 15. Off the top of my head:
Coach K, Cal, Donovan, Pitino, Self, Marshall, Belein, Izzo, Roy, Bennet, Miller, Ryan, Boeheim, Brown, Few, Wright, Hoiberg.
There are a couple more that you could argue as well, and you could even argue a couple of those. I think Barnes is a borderline top 25 coach.
I'm sure it wasn't on purpose, but Thad Matta belongs in every Who Are The Best College Basketball Coaches? conversation. He's better than half of the you listed.
-
Like I said,it was just off the top of my head. A brain storm, if you will.
-
making the tournament consistently is really rough ridin' hard. 16 of 17 really is pretty crazy. His highs haven't been as high as some of the other greats i guess.
-
making the tournament consistently is really rough ridin' hard. 16 of 17 really is pretty crazy. His highs haven't been as high as some of the other greats i guess.
Of the guys on the list, he has the same number of Final Fours as Ryan, Wright, Beilein, Marshall, and more than Bennett, Miller, Few, and Hoiberg.
-
Are you arguing he's accomplished more than those guys at this point? Yeah, he's coached over a decade longer than half of those guys. I feel pretty confident that Miller, Bennett, Hoiberg, Marshall, etc. will have accomplished more by the time they've been coaching as long as he has.
-
Are you arguing he's accomplished more than those guys at this point? Yeah, he's coached over a decade longer than half of those guys. I feel pretty confident that Miller, Bennett, Hoiberg, Marshall, etc. will have accomplished more by the time they've been coaching as long as he has.
Easier said than done.
-
http://texas.scout.com/story/1528079-could-rick-barnes-be-a-victim-of-timing?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=CPC&utm_term=Texas%20-%20Could%20Rick%20barnes%20be%20a%20victim%20of%20timing&utm_campaign=March%20Madness%20Marketing
-
answer to OP: all of them
-
T
answer to OP: all of them
Trent Johnson is pretty good
-
Mike Brey would not do better at Texas than Rick Barnes you dumbfuck. He has one particularly good season this year and shitbrains come out of the woodwork saying what a great coach he is. He's a rough ridin' less accomplished oscar that didn't get fired is what he is.
His name wouldn't have been dribbling out of your fat rough ridin' mouth after 15-17 last season and that says it all about old Brey and your dumbfuckery.
I've thought this about Brey for at least the last five seasons. He gameplans well, he's good in game reacting as play requires. You could make the argument that he wouldn't recruit as well as Barnes in Austin, but I think he'd win more games there. Notre Dame is not an easy place to win games. Brey would've had ND in the tournament last year had he not dealt with J. Grant's suspension. oscar would never have won an ACC tournament in South Bend. Now go back to convincing yourself that John Groce was a good hire.
-
answer to OP: all of them
This is the correct answer.
-
I don't know why people think Texas has some sort of huge advantage in basketball over schools like Notre Dame, Ohio State, Florida, Michigan, Louisville, UConn, etc.
I don't think the argument is that they are in a category all to themselves, but they are probably one of a dozen schools with a huge advantage.
-
Barnes is about to mush you guys.
-
Damn it
-
:peek:
-
https://twitter.com/davidubben/status/579068910097465344
-
I remember when Brey beat Frank and Beasley. :(
-
https://twitter.com/davidubben/status/579068910097465344
lol
-
yeah the "anybody can win at texas" thing is pretty LOL
it gets me really excited to argue the case of stud coaches Mack and Rick because I know it's coming. it's so easy to crush walk off homers off of this low/medium talking point. like, people should know better but here they come! and I'm like the slugger on rookie of the year wagging my tongue at the floater but instead of whiffing on it I crush one into the street over dead center.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrDZ8fdt.gif&hash=44567852b7900352b4d64d22fd7290c4293b1101)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs8whhdD.gif&hash=65c4e0096373f19087997ff57802f1130a64faa9)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F64T6QS0.gif&hash=50638f14b301286c639b3c7f6ae6ae4f6f8a4fea)
I agree that "Barnes sux!" is stupid. The only-good-at-UT argument holds some water with him. He was never more than a mediocre coach anywhere but UT, and has went from great success to just pretty good at UT. It's been underwhelming lately. I wish he could turn it around.
Mack was studding and bossing at UNC for years before landing in Austin.
-
There's just no way you can put Barnes in the top 15. Off the top of my head:
Coach K, Cal, Donovan, Pitino, Self, Marshall, Belein, Izzo, Roy, Bennet, Miller, Ryan, Boeheim, Brown, Few, Wright, Hoiberg.
There are a couple more that you could argue as well, and you could even argue a couple of those. I think Barnes is a borderline top 25 coach.
I'm sure it wasn't on purpose, but Thad Matta belongs in every Who Are The Best College Basketball Coaches? conversation. He's better than half of the you listed.
True.
-
Thad Matta is really good.